Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1445 | The Biggest Threat to Your Church Might Already Be Inside

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

Phil kept walking while his bodyguards handled an unexpected encounter so quickly that almost no one noticed, but Al remembers the moment vividly. The cheese feud heats up again when Al brings back reinforcements from Sargento, while Zach insists name-brand cereal made the Robertsons look rich when they were kids. Al recounts how a room full of singing Marines energized him after an exhausting week. Continuing their study of Jude, Jase, Al, and Zach challenge cruise ship Christianity, online arguments, and the habit of labeling everyone who disagrees as a false teacher. In this episode: Job 31; Jude 1–4, 12; John 7; Hebrews 9:26–28; 2 Peter 2:1–4; Colossians 2:18–19; Colossians 1:27; Exodus; Genesis 18–19; Matthew 19; 1 Timothy 4; Titus 1; 2 Peter 1:3–8 Want to watch Unashamed ad-free? Only on EKKL! Get 20% off with code UNASHAMED, and watch faith- and family-friendly movies, podcasts, and more: https://ekkl.com/ “Unashamed” Episode 1445 is sponsored by: https://preborn.com/unashamed - Visit the PreBorn! website or dial #250 and use keyword BABY to donate today. https://duckstamp.com/unashamed - Get your digital duck stamp online and keep it right on your phone! https://rocketmoney.com/unashamed - Join Rocket Money and let them help you reach your financial goals faster. http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ - Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://open.spotify.com/show/3LY8eJ4ZBZHmsImGoDNK2l Chapters 00:00 Rebecca’s Store Opening  02:36 The Great Cheese Debate Returns 08:33 Growing Up Robertson 13:26 Al Gets a Boost 17:29 A Fishing Boat, Not a Cruise Ship 21:07 Phil’s Bodyguards Spring Into Action 24:58 Jude’s Call to Contend for the Faith 34:23 Fighting Online & Missing Real People 37:15 Disagreement Doesn’t Make a False Teacher 41:18 Corruption Creeps Into the Church 48:38 Talking Donkeys & Questions  50:44 Living Like Jesus - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Zach, you tell me your kids were down here in Louisiana this past weekend. Jay and I were gone, so I didn't get to see them. Yeah, they played a little show down there. Was it Rebecca's store opening? Yeah, I don't know the name of it. I felt like it's something I can't pronounce. Well, Rebecca loves to have stores. She'll open one and sell them.

stuff for a while and then she'll close it and reopen another one. She and John Reed are a very interesting couple. But Rebecca, you know, she's the one that's the exchange student that never left and became a Robertson that way, which was interesting. We've had a few stories like that. I guess, I don't know, it's just unique, kind of like Carina's the same way, just people that God puts in our lives and then they just stay with us, you know, which is, I mean, I like it. I like the style but she's kind of got that entrepreneur spirit so they they were singing at the at the store at the yeah they uh they uh john read rebecca they love love the kids music and they're like would you guys like what would you charge to come down here and and they didn't know it that

uh Corey and Willie had donated to their Kickstarter fund the kids and so they gave if you gave a certain amount then you get then you get a show you get like a like a private show yeah and so the kids like, well, we actually owe your mom or I don't know how that, what we go, Willie and Corey, a show, talk to them and see if, uh, if, and if they're good with it, that'll just, that'll be the thing. And so Corey was like, yeah, of course. So they, they went down there and did the show, got to see everybody.

It was kind of cool because they have a song called Washataw Woods. Yeah. Most people would not know how to spell that unless you're from Washita Parish. You would never figure it out. I mean, nah, no, no. Most people call it OU Cheetah is what I, the most, Kind of looks like Ouch, Alchita. Yeah.

But that's why, you know, these national weather forecast, when they get into Louisiana. Yeah, they had some problems. It's a, it sounds like it's OU Chita Parish down in Monroe. They always draw out the Monro. Oh, you chita. Oja Chita Monroe, no. I've had people say, well, where is this Lake Shania, you know, and I'm like, look, don't look at the signs.

Don't this we've taken vocabulary and invented a whole new language. So I mentioned the last podcast that I'd gone to Wisconsin. And you'll never, you'll never guess. This is a throwback for, I don't know, maybe a year ago. The people that make Sargento cheese. Yeah. Well, the, I remember them. You remember them?

They sent us some cheese. So it's a granddaughter of the, the man who started the business. And so she's the one that was behind getting Lisa and I to come do this event. And I didn't realize that until we got there. And I was like, oh, you're the cheese lady. And she's, oh, yeah. And of course, she had us like.

If you're going to Wisconsin, cheese was involved. It's always involved. And she had gone by, I mean, like, in personal baggies and had like fresh homemade string cheese, cheddar cheese. It was all in my fridge when we got to our place we were staying. They treated me wonderfully. But she asked me about the debate. She said, well, you know, Jall ever get Zach on board with this, what we do is natural cheddar American cheese.

Oh, let's not revisit that. But, I mean, she asked me, and I was like, no, you can't convince Zach. I mean, he's still holding to his. I think the whistleblower, speaking of Jude, realized that when you start making things that have nothing to do with a cow or where cheese actually comes from and calling it cheese. I'm out on that. I didn't say it was healthy. I mean, there's another thing that I've enjoyed thoroughly over the years that I've found

out about recently that it doesn't melt, and it's an ice cream sandwich. You know, it's like the cookie. It's got the dark cookie on top. Everyone's familiar with an ice cream sandwich. Yeah, but there's different variation. But the kind you used to get at, like, when you were in school at the cafeteria, like, those kind of, they don't melt. Well, that's not ice cream. It's not ice cream. That's what I'm saying. I didn't know that.

And when I went through, I was watching the whole process of what that actually is. And it was one of those, and cheese that's the same way. There's like these certain foods that you're just like, man, I wish I, these are things I've really enjoyed and they're just not good for you. I will say that the imitation cheese, though, it's only good in the context of the burger because that's the only context I think that. If you have to go to that way. It just shows you the mind. This is what caused all the problems in life.

Some human minds, they get something in their mind and they think, oh, this is good. And you're like, no, it's not. All things are redeemable. All things are redeemable. So, no, if we did an autopsy on you right now, that what you think is cheese, it's still there. It didn't go anywhere. It's stuck to some part of your inside, and it's just hanging.

But you know, if a human being doesn't eat it, this is what I was telling Shelly's her name. I was telling Shelly, I said, Shelly, if I were to take a slice of Zach's American cheese, which is not cheese, and laid it out on my deck, nothing would go to it. No, nothing in the wild. I've already tried this. Yeah, they won't even go near it. The reason I won't eat it, that imitation where you have the little cheese and the thing. Because when we had the year, Phil and I had the war with the mice, there were hundreds of thousands of mice that descended in the middle of this field at the highest point,

which is where we had a trailer. And they lost the war. The one thing I put on a mousetrap, because I'm... I looked in there and the guy, our guest, had brought some of that cheese. Yeah. I was like, well, I'll bait it with that. Wouldn't touch it. They wouldn't eat it.

No. Wouldn't eat it. Do you believe that now? You act like, you said that. It's 100% true. Do you believe it? There's not about it. It's a fact.

They, look, look, I had better success with no cheese. Jayce, you have been known to embellish things. I do. I'm wondering if this is embellished, man. No, he's telling the truth. A wild mouse looked at that. thought, nope. And then here you are.

Say, I don't tell you what, a rat won't eat it. But I'm going to ingest this. And this is good. So, Zach, I got good news. I posted a theory to Shelley. I said, well, it could be that Zach's very, he's known for being cheap. And I keep saying that.

Y'all keep saying that. No, it's true. It's true. Y'all made that off. And so I thought this Sargento is not cheap because it's high quality cheese. So I said, maybe he's just trying to cut corners. It's why he's so in love with this bake stuff.

And so she, She said, okay, so before I left, when I was all my way out, she came up and handed me seven or eight

Sargento certificates that you can get free cheese with. And I said, well, I'm going to make sure I put some of these in Zach's hands.

So you can't have an excuse. It's not, it's not a cost to me anything. This is on Sargento to buy some of their natural American cheese and try it on your burgers and get back to us.

So that's, I'm going to take away, maybe part of your issue, which is money because the generosity of the Sargento people. Do you like cheese whiz? Are y'all the anti-cheez whiz too? I've never had cheese whiz. I don't.

I don't even know what that is. Yeah. It comes in a can and you squirt it on a crack. No, cheese in a can. Nope, that doesn't sound right. Nope, it's not right. It's not. And you shouldn't be doing it.

I hear some whistleblowing. Yeah, but I think you're right out. I never put the connection on what, what is. I'm thinking that bit is where it started. No, it came because that, he's cheap. Yeah. And that's the cheapest cheese you can buy because obviously it's cheap because it's not cheese. When you grow up poor like I did, you guys had money growing up.

We didn't have that kind of money. Oh, yeah. Oh, y'all weren't, when I came to your house. You say stuff like this. You're giving the audience who don't know us. That is not true. Y'all had more money than we had. Y'all had fruity pebbles.

Yes, you did. You had fruit loops. They were eating the invitation, knockoff corn flakes. There wasn't none of that crap. We didn't have any of that. So when I came to your house, it was like, man, we had hit the big times. It's pretty sad. When food stouts, they'll buy that stuff.

We definitely had food assistance in some of the early years. We've documented our childhood experience. But when we went to school, Al, we started off with free lunch, which means you're with the government somehow. And which from my dad. to go along with that. Well, Dad never knew. That was my mom. I had all y'all's hammy downs, which were hammy downs.

I'm sure those were hammy downs, too. By the time they got to me, they were like, I was 10 years behind schedule on the fashion. Willie says you knew the status of Duck Commander by what our school lunch situation was. Yeah, exactly. We got to quarter pay, half pay, and then by the time we get by our own lunch, we were rolling. Hey, I want to remind everybody, listen, we have launched our platform. called Echo EKK. We did this because we were sick and tired of the filth that was coming into our homes.

And we're like, you know what? We have to have a different pipeline for content that's uplifting faith and family, family friendly content that your kids can watch without eroding and corrupting their little minds. And so we started this platform called ECHL. We have podcasts. We have movies. We have series. Got things like Doug Dynasty, the movie the Blind.

this podcast right here. You can get an ad-free, along with a lot of other podcasts that we're bringing on as well. But we also have something really cool. We have the first 12 episodes of Unashamed ever recorded. No one's ever seen them. We've never made them public. They were in the archives somewhere, and I found them.

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Unashamed at check out 20% off a one-year subscription. So tonight, Lisa and I were speaking on behalf of another pregnancy center, and we do it to support people who have unplanned pregnancies. Across America, pre-born network clinics are putting the gospel into action by surrounding mothers with hope and love and providing free, life-saving ultrasounds. And the impact is incredible. This year alone, more than 50,000 babies have been saved. Praise the Lord. And more than 5,100 people have made commitments to Christ through the ministry of pre-born. Praise the Lord for that as well. Here's a personal message from Dan Steiner, the president of pre-born. Because of you, we can invite mothers considering abortion into a pre-born network clinic to meet their babies.

and when she has that close encounter of the best kind in her womb, she is 80% more likely to choose life. At least and I see this all across the country. And you can help make the first ultrasound possible for the next mother who walks through their doors. So my question today is, will you join us and pre-born as we rescue 50,000 more baby's lives? For $28, you can sponsor an ultrasound

and help save a baby's life. to donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or you can donate securely at preborn.com slash unashamed. That's preborn.com slash unashamed. And remember, all gifts are tax deductible. I tell you what, when you grow up poor, though, this is funny.

I've thought about this. Like it does kind of stick with you. It doesn't get rid of the, it is kind of in there. You know what I mean? And always like, I mean, I think our kids think we're poor. I mean, I'm like, it's just in me. I don't know how to. You like that idea of building something, though.

But I got to tell you about the second. So last week was unbelievable. Jason was talking about his week, which was taxing. And I had done seven podcasts here Monday and Tuesday because I was helping Joe out with his book and we did a couple of podcasts. And then, so we go to Wisconsin and have two days of speaking up there because we spoke twice the next day after the marriage thing to a PRC pregnancy resource center. And then we're off on the plane, go ahead, into Jacksonville, North Carolina for another

two-day event for me. It was a men's event. So by the time we had Jacksonville, I'm weary. You know, that's a lot to do in one week. And plus fly same day, trying to get myself pumped up. So go in there and the pastor said, what can I do for you? So, well, just pray, you know, because you talked about, you talked about being tired by how the Holy Spirit sometimes does,

not sometimes, all the time, does his best work when we're like, don't have a lot to offer. So I said, if you got any espresso in there? He said, well, yeah, I got a espresso right here. I said, well, give me about three shots of that. Yeah.

Because I need to get a boost before I go out to this men's day. He said, well, I'm going to make it for you, but you're going to get a boost when you go out there. He said, because there was about 600, I think, plus men at this event. He said,

when he said, I noticed something, when the men sing way louder when there's no women around. Really? That's what he said. And so I thought, hmm, I never thought about it like that. So I get my triple espresso shot. I'm like, okay. You think it's because they're embarrassed? I don't know.

He just said they sing. Well, look, I walk out there and they had, they had a worship, a leading group of about eight or ten people, men and women. and then they had two little kind of like backup choral groups behind them. And they started pumping out there, and these men, I mean, were letting loose. And the pastor got so fired up when he got up to introduce me, he did one of those little sing-offs, you know, where he said, let's hear it again from the, and he can sing. So this section and this section, they're just belting it. Well, I just felt like you talk about a jolt of energy.

And so when I got up there, I said, boys, I got to tell you something. I came in tired from road weary. And the pastor gave me a triple espresso shot. And I thought that was a jolt I needed. But the Holy Spirit has given me a new. So you know how that went. So then we had the night and then the next morning. But it was Jacksonville.

I think one of the reasons why they're so excited is the Camp Lejeune, which is a Marine base, is there in this town. And so like this audience of me, then, I bet half of them were Marines, current Marines, you know, former, you know, retired. The fact that they're singing to the Lord is powerful. And I mean just like, but, you know, really and open to what the message, because we're talking about whistleblower, we get back to Jude. I mean, I had a strong message.

I went out of the book of Job, which is one of my kind of go-toes for men. And you go in Job 31, you talk about faithfulness, you're talking about honesty, made a covenant with my eyes, pornography. I get into it. And, man, those men were open. But that first night, they had about, I'd say probably about 15 or so that came forward, you know, to dedicate or rededicate their lives. So it was inspiring. It was, it was just what I needed because I was tired.

But, you know, the Holy Spirit, when something like that comes together, you get a jolt. Now, by the time I got home, I was about wiped out. But it was good. Yeah. That's why I thought even in Jew, when I was. I was studying it because I was trying to think of just an illustration of what we represent in the Lord. And for some reason, I started thinking about ships.

I actually Googled. I was like, what are the various ways that we use ships? And I didn't know that it was six. I mean, can you name them? Different kinds of ships? Yeah. Like a You mean different kinds of boats?

Yeah. Like a cruise ship. A cargo ship. You got one. You got two. So you got a battle ship. You're getting it. So you got a cargo ship.

You got passenger ships, which are like cruise ships, ferries. Tugboat. A spaceship? I didn't have a spaceship because I was thinking about water. Tugboat's one. But tugboat was a special purpose. A friendship? A friendship.

You know. You have, you're looking this up, Zach. That's what he does. I promise, I promise I'm not. If you got friendship in it. You know what's funny is that of all the ones you've named, you haven't named the one that I think we represent as God's people. Lordship?

No. The relationship. A fishing ship. A what? Fishing. A fishing boat. A fishing boat. I'll make you fissures of men.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. My one thought. No, and I'm saying everything else is what causes problems. When we, at our church,

turned it into a cruise ship. You don't want to be a cruise ship. No, because what are you doing a cruise ship? Right. Whatever the heck you want to do. Whatever vice. which is why we went on a cruise,

I didn't like it. Because... But we were fishing on that cruise ship. No, we were, but it almost made it impossible. And we brought some people the Lord. But I'm looking around thinking, that's what I thought the whole time.

I thought we were going to have a Jesus ship here. No, this is a cruise ship. A lot of it wasn't a cruise ship. Yeah, yeah, where we're trying to share a G is very difficult and exhausting. It was a. And I thought of all those things, Because at first I thought, well, we are a part warship, but then I thought, no, our captain is interceding force at the right hand of God.

And he's defeated these spiritual forces of evil and the heavenly play. I was thinking about all these things. The weapons we fight with are not of the world. What made me think of it is when you said this military, a lot of military people, because you know what the hardest thing for a military guy to do is surrender. Yeah, that's right. That conversation, the guy that married my niece or Missy's cousin, he was in the Marine Corps. Yeah. And that's been a topic of conversation because I was like, it's very hard.

Because now these two vows, you're surrendering to the Lord and you're surrender. Well, it's hard for a Marine to surrender to anything. So we were standing around a group of guys and some of these were Marine recon guys, which is what Robeshoe was. you know our buddy chat and we were having this conversation and there was I was just like hard to turn that off and they were like oh you have no idea we first meet somebody our first thought is how would I kill this person yeah I mean like that's what they're trained to do and so then they have to say I've asked these guys I mean they said that to me and I was like that sounds so weird to me I've seen them because we've had them as bodyguards and different things and I'm being stupid and asking

the questions everybody wants to ask you I'm like, now that guy that just was here, and, you know, like we had an altercation. Yeah. I said, now, if that thing would have escalated, how long would it have taken you to render him powerless? And I've asked, you know, several of them this question. And it's always been in the range of eight to 12 seconds where he's either dead or incapacity. no longer functional, you know, and I'm like. Zach, do you remember when we were in the, at the film festival with dad and walking?

And that, and we had those, we had a couple of those guys with us, two or three. I think they were seals. But, but a guy walked up to dad and he was, he was intoxicated or high or something. But he just like made an attempt. We're walking now, full walking. Nobody stopped. I do remember this. You remember this?

And this guy walks up. I don't know this guy. And he goes to like grab dad. And it was less than 8 to 12th. Because all that happened, it happened so fast. You wouldn't have noticed it. It was just like he was unbelievable. Like he was there.

And he was gone. Yeah, he was gone. And we just kept walking and like, I don't know what happened. There was no scuffle. It was just one of those experiences myself. We were walking through. They had ropes, you know. And a guy just, he popped up on my side of the rope.

and he just went down. He just disappeared downward as I kept walking. It was such a flash. And I thought, whoa, you're talking about power. Yeah, exactly. It was a move that I hadn't, think close-lining of a wide receiver who didn't see the defensive bat.

That's about what it looked like, you know? And I thought, whoo, he's going to have a bad day. Our instance was more like it was like we were, were walking and the guy when he came the other one of the guys just they just kind of like moved they immediately moved in no facial expression no no emotion was efficient it was just grab the arm twisted put up and the guy was gone i just i heard a sound and it was just like no it was pretty impressive it was very no it was it was like um it was delivered with zero emotion that's what that was that's what was so impressive about it zero emotion so jose so jose so

we've had a long hot summer and a very unseasonably warm slash hot fall. But this week feels like we're finally getting to some cooler weather and some duck weather. I mean, this is probably the hottest I've ever seen this time of year. We associate our times in a duck line as kind of being cooled. And it's fantastic. Since 1934, the Duck Stamp program has helped conserve millions of acres of wetlands across America. and we try to do the same thing with our property here. Your duck stamp is more than just a hunting requirement.

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but also you get the hard copy, which is here, is the collectible later in the spring. So you get all things covered, but also you're really helping out conserve wetlands around the country. And today, getting your stamp couldn't be easier. Visit duckstamp.com. It's a simple thing that makes a lasting difference. Duckstamp.com, get yours before your next hunt. Well, I got the boat, Illinois. illustration from verse 3 of Jude.

Well, you know, one through three, because I really feel strongly about when he said we're loved by God to those who are called. I mean, what are we called to do? And that's where I thought, you follow me, I'll make you a fisher of me. Yeah. Yep. And I do think part of what Jude's point is, is because he, when he, when he, when he, says this about in verse three, I was very eager to write to you about the rescue or salvation that we share. So that's more what we're saved from. All these great things that God accomplished through Jesus

and His Holy Spirit in us, it's just fun to read about it, to think about it. We've been saved from our sins. We get to live eternally. The resurrections of reality. We get to experience love. I mean, however you want to, all our enemies are going to be dealt with, anybody does you wrong, all these things. Well, because those stories are inspiring. There was a woman that was at the pregnancy research center in Wisconsin, and we just met her briefly. They gave us a tour. And then this morning, before I left, Lisa said, oh, you remember this girl? And she said her name. And then she said, she just sent me her story. You know, we didn't really get to talk to her because she's working doing the event.

We're doing our stuff. And she reads it to him. And it was just an unbelievable, difficult story of her whole life. And she'd been in and out of prison and had all these issues. And now she's a saved, rescued daughter of the Almighty working at this pregnancy center and also in prison like Jerry Ann and Mindy. So she read me this story and I was like, oh, And she said that she's at the end of the story. She said, I'm sorry, sorry.

I didn't get a picture with you. I would have loved that. And I was like, why don't we get a picture with her? You know, why didn't this happen? But it's inspiring because it's when people are rescued, that inspires other people because there's like, oh, man, that's great. And that's what he's saying. I want to talk to you about that.

Well, testimonies are great. But look, if that's as far as this goes. Right. It's got to be more. Yeah. What are we called TB? And that's why I came up with the ship analogy. Our captain is going to keep us safe.

but we've got to trust him. And the weapons we're fighting with is not the weapons of the world. As much as we want to, you know, rise up and say, now here's what we're going to do. Because that's what's happened. We have a group of people that are in the church that are rising up to saying,

this is how we do this. But it's not aligning with the captain. This doesn't look like Jesus stuff. But he then has this phrase, which I think is the most famous phrase in Jude, where he says, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith. That's what I called this our study, contending for the faith.

Yeah. But when you look at that word in the Greek, and I don't know if you did a rabbit hole. I did. There's a struggle. Yeah. You're struggling for the faith. And you know, it's the only time this word is used in the New Testament. Yeah.

Right here. And look, think about when you're in a boat and you're fishing, you're fishing for man. That's going to be a struggle. And look, this not doesn't have a, you know, you're rowing to go to the fish. I mean, this, the whole thing is a stroke. I don't know if you've been on a fishing boat, but I'm going back to my childhood. It is a mess. It is a mess.

You're fighting current. At any moment, you feel like you're going to die. Everything out there will poke you, sting you, or whatever. And it's just a lot of work and it's a lot of sweat. And it's exhausting. and you're having to deal with whoever's in the boat from whether it's a crawfish boat or you know a fishing boat and guess what it stinks

which by the way remember when I told you the story about the guy who said I stink the golfer he won the senior championship the guy who said he won that this weekend while I was doing that way won it because he's putting his shirts and bacon soda and he's smelling good to victory I couldn't believe it sour he wasn't sour he wasn't sour He wasn't sour.

I couldn't believe it. I was on a group child. I was like, that guy, what? I might need to get some bacon soda. You got to transfer it to the dryer quicker. That's the problem. These stories never end. You know, I'm like, I cannot wait until I see this guy.

So you made the distinction, though, of the fishing boat. Because if you think about it, recreational fishing boat is a whole different experience. Like a bass boat is a whole different experience than the boat you and I grew up in. because there you work or you don't eat, you catch or you don't pay bill. Well, think about it, a tourist boat or a cruise ship or a ski boat where your ski. It's all about your pleasure. Your pleasure and your enjoyment. There's nothing wrong with any of those things.

We're not saying, you know, we're just saying if you apply that to your spiritual life. I'm saying if your church looks like a cruise ship, we got a problem. If it looks like a cargo ship, you're not. You're trying to take all this stuff with you somewhere, you know, even, well, what happens when you die? Just think about it. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good analogy. Or if you're just throwing haymaker missiles at every other group of people on the planet,

this are not the weapons that we fight with. When I got another ship that would be a good one to fit in, and that's a military hospital ship. They have those. They do have those. They're listed. That's the idea of the front-line fighters who are wounded. We help mend them and get them back. I did like the hospital.

I did think in my mind when I was reading all them, I thought we have a hospital compartment on our fishing boat, you know, which is not unlike. Because we don't shoot the wounded. We heal them and get them back in the game. Yeah. And we're like, come on, we can use you. You know, the Lord can use you when you're weak and you're broken.

I think that's an admirable thing. but this contending it's not there's not going to be a lot of glory here and and the you know the weapons we fight with in our relationship with the captain is prayer and his spirit is there though because it's like does this look like what jesus i keep going back to jesus's lifestyle and there's a reason that it makes a big deal about though he never sinned yeah and despite you know him having all these opportunities and all these confrontations and even in his anger he he he got mad. It's okay to get mad. I mean, that anger has a purpose. Yeah. And what did he get mad about? There were people at the place of worship that he said, you've turned this into a den of robbers.

You've, no, whatever ship that is with all the, you know, the treasures of life that you're compiling on your, on your ship that we're going to enjoy. And remember us assuming, I think rightly, that Jude is the younger brother, half-brother of Jesus, and James was as well when we studied James, they had a front row to this whole thing. Now, we know from John 7 that they didn't believe he was the Messiah, but they did believe there was something unique about him because remember they said,

you know, if you're going to be a man of the people, you've got to get out there and rub shoulders. I'm paraphrasing John 7. You know, you need to get up there to this Feast of the Tabernacles, and he was like, no, you know, know, I'll deal with what I deal with, but you knew his brothers did not believe in him like you read here they did. And then I love the second half of that statement, Jay, because it said contend for the faith

that was once for all entrusted to the saints. I love that singular nature of what Jesus did, and it immediately took me back to Hebrews chapter nine, Hebrew writer put it this way, he said, but now he has appeared. It's the same language that Jude uses once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once and after that to face judgment. So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people. And he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for it. I love the way this singularity of the event, Jesus' incarnation, his sacrifice, his deity,

see all that wrapped up into him looking forward to the end. This is exactly what Jude has the same language. I just had an epiphany. Zach was right. We, because I, when he said that spaceship. Zach, does he need to say that again? Zach, you had a good point. You had a good point.

Maddie, because, yeah, this, this, we, Zach came up with a good analogy on this. Because if your church has turned into a spaceship, guess what? You do all your, your fighting on. online, the internet. It's the spaceship church. Because look, I had no idea how wrong people could be in the Lord until you start reading this stuff on the internet.

Look, I was oblivious because what it does, it shows, because anybody can have a website. Yeah. You know, and so everybody went there. We're going to win the world, you know, on the internet, despite Jesus coming in a time when their technology was a little weak. I think he did that on purpose. But if you're not with real people, if you're just on a spaceship

and you're throwing haymakers at every group, because that's basically what it is. And you're right, Jay. The only way we would know it before, and I'd done this a couple of times here locally, is to go to somebody's little small group and hear them approaching the Bible with, what does this mean to you?

And then hear some of the stuff they come up with, and I'm like, that's not at all what the author was trying to say. One of the things that bothers me more than anything is that my wife sometimes will sign up for these subscriptions, which I do too, but she'll like over subscribe. And so we've got a particular vitamin supplement, which I won't name, but we were getting like literally a whole closet full of vitamins. Like, where are these coming from? And I had to get on Rocket Money to find out that we had multiple subscriptions for the same vitamin service. And Rocket Money helped me cancel it, which is great.

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So let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals fast or join at RocketMoney.com slash Unashamed. That's RocketMoney.com slash unashamed. RocketMoney.com slash unashamed. It's like the postmodern art, the abstract art and you're in the Art Museum. Yeah.

And I've actually been to Art Museum that had the postmodern art and this question was asked, what do you say? What does this mean to you? Yeah. And that is kind of the point of the postmodern art is that the meaning is not in the, the painter doesn't have a meaning.

It's just you. You determine the meaning for what you want it to be. Yeah. The problem with the Bible, if you take that approach to the Bible, the Bible was written with an intentional purpose. Yes. I think it's, I think that there is a caveat,

though, because I grew up in a church that kind of a group that it was, I remember hearing this phrase for people. Like we're calling out names or we're identifying false problems and we're calling names. And we're naming them. And they would like totally just write another church off because of some obscure teaching or something that they were like, they weren't an 100% agreement on. And they could get down the stuff like can you have a water fountain in your building? Because the Bible says, don't you have homes to eat in?

And they would take that verse that you can't have it. can't have a kitchen in your church building. And if you have one, they would say that you are a false teacher. This isn't like what Jude is dealing with here. This is not just some like small issues. These aren't theological or doctrinal. This isn't like these little nuanced discussions we have. This isn't Calvinism versus Armenianism. This isn't, you know, dispensationalism versus post-millennialism. What he's talking about here, these people were abusing great. They were using grace as a license to then go out and sin. These were real false teachers.

And so I think we have to be careful throwing the label around false teacher because what happens, if we throw that everywhere, anytime somebody disagrees with us, then it actually loses its meaning. These are real false teachers. And there are real false teachers today. Sure. I mean, there are real false teachers today. But it was, it's not as noticeable as, because they, they, they, they, they, they've secretly come in among the people. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and it's, it's a subject. I mean, that's all over the place. They were becoming, verse 12, they were becoming shepherds even, because he says shepherds who feed only themselves. These men are blemishes on your left. He's eating, eating with you without the slightest qualm. I mean, so there's no doubt, they're setting up ranks in these early churches, and it's not good. I mean, which is like a little slogan that would help explain it is you can't go to church. What?

Where did that? That came from this kind of thinking. Oh, we're going to go. We go to church. You are the church. We go everywhere. You're the bride of Christ. You're being faithful to him and representing him.

Which back to your point in the last podcast, it's just like, would we ever start saying we go to our marriage? Like that would only be, you would come together, I guess, in your home, and we're going to our marriage. Your marriage goes there where you go, whether you're together. I mean, think about this, though, the word here in the ESV is, who pervert, they pervert the grace of our God into sensuality, and they deny our only master in Lord.

Jesus Christ. Like, that's the, that, that's the charge. That's what's happening. That, that's the first couple charges in that, yeah, because he's going to have more. He's going to have more. But this, but this, but the entry point is these people have crept in, they've snuck into the church. Yeah, yeah. N.I.V. says secretly slipped in among you.

Wasn't like they had a, wasn't like this was in the spaceship context, which, by the way, your marriage wouldn't work in a spaceship context either if you're only online you know yeah if you have a virtual relationship how long is that going to last well to the to the see you because i think that's that you feel like you're the headquarters yeah and you're you're making this is you're making everything right and so picking on group i just i just don't think that's what we're called to be this is something somebody told me a long a long time ago and it was like a really good quote that they were talking about theological liberalism. And by that, I just mean like theological liberalism would be ultimately to deny the deity of Christ,

or maybe that Christ came in the flesh. He was a real person. He's not an idea. He's a real person, right? And you can see a lot of denominations, a lot of churches, a lot of the mainline Protestant churches, that actually left the actual core of the Christian faith, and it become theologically liberal. and somebody told me this one time, they said that liberalism doesn't grow anything, it only grows in things. And I think that that's how this happens.

This is kind of what it slips into your church, it sneaks into your congregation, it creeps in, and then what happens is it's like a cancer. It just begins to grow. But it feeds off of the life of the church, which is why if you look at the denominations that have actually left, the historic teaching in the church, all of them have shrunk tremendously in membership. They're not growing. They don't grow. Liberal churches do not grow. It's churches that are filled with the spirit that are anchored in the scriptures.

Those are always the churches that grow. So the warning here that I think that he's talking about, I mean, this isn't just for 2,000 years ago. I mean, this still happens today. That groups get corrupted. The stuff creeps in. That's where I was head. It takes nothing.

that's where I was going with that go to church. You're sitting, just because you're sitting in a building, that means nothing. Any person can do that. They can either be hauled in there or you can drive up there and walk in. That means nothing. Right.

Anybody can do that. Sure. But I just think, we think, oh, I put, this is meaningful. I just don't see how it relates to doing Jesus stuff. Right. I keep going back to the only way to know if he's your Lord is to there's four books in here that goes in detail of how he operated. And you just have to live there.

I mean, there's something about knowing Jesus, which everybody will then, you know, quit back. And he's like, yeah, but he knows you. But you know him and you look at your life and say, this doesn't look like Jesus. right this is not especially when it comes to this he gave you grace and then you're turning it into a license to sin which is a common theme which i wanted to get into but go ahead and finish your thought out no i was just going to say that one of the reasons why that jude and second peter are very much linked because of languishing the assumption is is that one or the other whichever came first we're not sure which, but we're definitely in the same vein.

They're dealing with the same thing. And we know that second Peter, Peter wrote up not long before he was martyred. And so Jude's probably in that similar vein of time, I'm guessing, late 60s, because we didn't get kind of into the nuts and bolts of the authorship of the book. But it's then that same idea. And everything that seemed to be happening right here in this late 60s, you remember Paul's about to be martyred, Peter's about to be martyred, and Peter's about to be martyred. And so you're getting these, as Jace calls at the whistleblower warnings about what's

happening. Because, you know, one is the destruction of Jerusalem is about to happen. So you got this big judgment that's coming that's just right there at hand. And they're trying to warn and say, look, you don't want to be on the wrong side. When this thing goes down, you want to be the people who are going to continue on past this terrible thing that's about to happen. So you get that sense of impending doom through the letters. And a lot of you, you we know, don't really understand how the destruction of Jerusalem that happened in AD 70 of that temple factors into all this. That's big.

But they had corrupted that, and that was the one time Jesus got mad because they had a place, a building that was where God and humans would meet through a process with priests, and you can go back and read all that in the Old Testament, and they had turned it into a place, to line their pockets with money. They were void of a relationship with the creator of the universe. It was just, it was what they did. It was a religious appearance of having a godly encounter, but it looked nothing like what the lifestyle of Jesus made.

So I do think that's important. You're right, because that was the heaven and earth spot coming together at the temple. And he, it was destroyed by his judgment. And I think that's why both Peter and Jude bring in this idea of, because Peter said in Second Peter 2.4, if God did not spare angels when they send, and then he goes to the exact same places that Jude does. They were both in the same idea. Both talking about this falseness. They secretly come in among you. They deny the sovereign Lord who brought them. You know, it's the same wording, same idea, same concept. The new Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid is the most fuel-efficient cross-track yet. That means less time filling your tank and more time filling your day. More court time. More ride time.

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1, because there's some interesting language in there that kind of sounds similar when you, when you get to, or is it too, don't let any, you know, the worship of angels, it says, asceticism, the worship of angels. These people go into great detail about what they've seen. But I think this idea that you see both in even Paul's letter to the Galocean Church is, like the process is to reject authority and then to come up with your own like narrative around the kind of the spiritual world and you're and you're twisting things around but you're actually you're coming up with the story yourself and and I think when that's why a lot times people use like the spiritual world to do that because it is a little bit like I mean

you you can manipulate in that world because it's not as concrete and so they'll they'll do this. Or they'll dismiss the spiritual world or they'll make up something about the spiritual world. But it's at the center point of this. And I think that to Jason's point on the temple, one of the mysteries that's revealed in Colossians is that the new temple is us. It says that to them God chose to make the great, to them, God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery. which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. That is the mystery, and that is what was revealed in Christ and through the Holy Spirit that God's going to now live in the bodies of people who are believers.

And so to reject that authority and to reject that communion of heaven and earth coming together in the bodies of believers, it does lead to sensuality. It does lead to corruption in the church. It does lead to following all the ways of the old that he's. brings out here. Yeah, and I think I made a good point about Second Peter because we probably should have done this on the first podcast about Jude.

You need to go read all those stories that he's going to mention. There's at least six. Because when we get there, if you don't read them before, this is going to go right over your head. So you're talking about Exodus, first part of Exodus, then of course

Genesis 1819 would be Well, the Exodus was more. The Exodus was more about they were just grumbling. Right. Which, you know, you'd get a pass on that one. But these other stories, you got Cain, you got Balaam. Yeah, you got Cain, Genesis 5. Corus Rebaalum, which is fascinating because I heard in my searches, once again, they put

something that was current. That guy, Desusa, he had just, DeSuzza. Danesh DeSuzza. Yeah, he had just, he did a whole thing. I watched it. It was pretty incredible. They found some plaster in a cave, archaeologist did, that had this balaam of boar, his name on it in the same region. Because that story is crazy.

This is the one with the donkey talking. The donkey talking. And it ain't donkey from Shrek. But skeptics use that story as like, well, this Bible's ridiculous. There's a donkey talking, which I never really understood the argument. you know, if God can create man from dirt, what's a donkey? If he can create the universe out of nothing.

I mean, that's one of the... Craig's arguments on the resurrection of Christ. He's like, if God, if you... If science is right that the universe just exploded into being out of nothing, and God, like, speaks and then something exists, if he can do that, then the resurrection of the dead,

a talking donkey, that's all child's point. Oh, yeah. A fish, yeah, fish swallowing a human. What I was going to say. Now about that.

Have you seen that? The guy gets swallowed by the whale, and he surprised. I saw the ads for it. No, I know. But look, what I was going to say is, I think you should read all the stories,

and then I think you're right. Peter and Jude obviously had a conversation. Yeah, they're too sympathetic about it. But you know what I found, fascinating about second peter that i just want to say because it goes in with our theme for today is when he starts that first chapter he mentions what i keep hammering on which in verse three it says and think of this in the context of we're a fishing boat in the weapons we fight with or not

of the world jesus is our captain and we have four letters that describe how he operated but it says verse three of sacred peter one his divine powers give giving us everything we need for life and godliness. But I just want to stop and say, it doesn't look like it when you see a fishing boat out there and mirroring that being the bride of Christ out there doing work. You just think, because you look vulnerable. We are vulnerable.

You look exhausted. We are exhausted. But you're like, what are you doing? We're fishing for men and women for the kingdom of God, even though it just doesn't look that glamorous. And to your point. Peter, who's writing this, his life was changed and then restored. Guess where in a fission boat?

Exactly. Al, you're, we're tracking. But watch what it says. Through our knowledge of him. I'm telling you, you have to put that right at the top, which is what Jude is doing. That's why he's making the point. You don't take God's grace and live like this. This is nothing about what Jesus represented.

And so I think when you get into all these art. arguments in churches and among churches and between churches. First of all, the people whose lifestyle, especially when it comes to immorality and of the sexual nature and, you know, the guy's having an argument and this guy's got a fleet of women that he's seeing. Well, wait a minute. And that's why I came up with the wedding analogy, first of all. Those two things are inseparable.

Yes. Us being married to Jesus and us being married to. one woman for life, that's inseparable. Yeah. That's what this, that's faithfulness in, in Jesus's life that he's promoting. I mean, there's a reason he quoted that, Matthew 9. And by the way, Paul did the same thing at 1st Timothy 4 and Titus 1. Same exact languaging.

They come in, they take advantage of weakwill women, they have their way with them. Same warnings to the, to the, so watch where this goes in verse 4. It says, through these he's given us, which was by his own glory and goodness, by the way, he called you. But through these he's given us these very great and precious promises so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, the very nature of God we get to participate in, even though it doesn't look like it at first from the worldly perspective,

and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. There's a big difference in person. participating in corruption of the world and having these evil desires, which is all these other boats we were describing, selfish desires. There's a big difference in escaping and participating in them. That's where we get these words. We're participating in the divine nature and escaping the corruption. We're not participating in the corruption.

So when you are and you're speaking on behalf of God, that's un-avis. And the reason why Jay says, what spirit are you being led by? Is it the spirit of God, the divine, is it your own spirit, or is it some evil spirit? Exactly.

Something's in charge. But I want to read verse 8 too, because then he gets into persevering and having self-control and having this knowledge, but then he gets to verse 8 and he brings it up again. For if you possess these qualities

in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Why does he keep going back to this? I mean, I just think it's fascinating. I mean, there has to be one standard of debate, and the debate is whatever you're saying,

does it go with how you're living as it relates to looking like Jesus? Yeah. Being conformed to the image of Christ. Yeah, I love it. And how you're operating. So next time, we'll, we'll, start taking some of those little journeys to the past and see what the measure of looks like,

because that's where Jude is going to take. I do. I mean, I feel strongly about this, and I've said this 1,000 times, but when you're sitting in church, it's a good thing to do. There was a book written about this. To lean over to your neighbor and say, when are we going to start doing the Jesus stuff? I want to say one thing that we're closed, too, that I don't know when that interview is going to come out with Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell, but.

he wrote the book on his book is contend yeah after jude they had 80,000 people at a prayer gathering in Atlanta I think it was in Atlanta this past weekend and the message that this guy is is proclaiming is very simple repent yeah I think that it was I mean I don't know that to me that we hadn't preached repentance in a long time I would say based on on us meeting him, Zach, that he is a modern-day Jew. I would say that's a fair statement. I'm encouraged. I think this is a great book for such a time as this.

And I pray to bring us all to that repentance we need. All right. We'll pick it up here next time on Unashame. Is that out yet, Maddie? Oh, today, Zach. Perfect timing. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast.

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