Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1446 | The Forbidden Attraction Between Humans & Angels Has a Dark History

Episode Date: October 21, 2026

A dangerous conspiracy theory about a school shooting pushes Zach to confront a man he knows personally, and the response is even more disturbing than the claims themselves. Jase and Al join Zach in examining America's obsession with conspiracy theories, political battles, and other distractions that keep people from confronting problems in their own lives. Meanwhile, Jase's morning descends into chaos involving a fire truck, a terrifying spider, and losing some hair. The guys also dig into the book of Jude, exploring the strange biblical accounts of fallen angels, sexual immorality, and the forbidden boundaries between the human and spiritual realms. In this episode: Jude 1:3–7; John 14:6–7; 1 John 5:21; Genesis 1:28; Genesis 3; Genesis 6; Genesis 19; Romans 1; 2 Peter 1:8–11; 2 Peter 2:1; Exodus 12; Hebrews 13:2; Colossians 2 Want to watch Unashamed ad-free? Only on EKKL! Get 20% off with code UNASHAMED, and watch faith- and family-friendly movies, podcasts, and more: https://ekkl.com/ “Unashamed” Episode 1446 is sponsored by: https://helixsleep.com/unashamed - Get 20% off sitewide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! https://trees.com/ - Get an additional 20% OFF with code UNASHAMED at checkout Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off @‌StopBoxUSA with code UNASHAMED at https://stopboxusa.com/UNASHAMED #stopboxpod http://unashamedforhillsdale.com/ - Sign up now for free, and join the Unashamed hosts every Friday for Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College Check out At Home with Phil Robertson, nearly 800 episodes of Phil's unfiltered wisdom, humor, and biblical truth, available for free for the first time! Get it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and anywhere you listen to podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-home-with-phil-robertson/id1835224621 Chapters 00:00 Jase's Morning Goes Off the Rails 04:50 Raising Kids That Never Grow Up 12:10 Little Man Learns the Value of Perseverance 17:00 Al’s Granddaughter's Toughest Test 20:07 Faithfulness Is More Than Following Rules 22:55 Are We Fighting for the Wrong Things? 25:15 The Danger of Conspiracy Theories  32:10 God's Boundaries & the Spiritual Realm 38:10 Jase Takes a Deep Dive Into Jude 43:00 Connecting Jude & 2 Peter 48:10 Fallen Angels, Sodom & Gomorrah - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The new Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid is the most fuel-efficient cross-track yet. That means less time filling your tank and more time filling your day. More court time. More ride time. More lake time. More camp time. More go time. The new 2027 Subaru Cross-Trek hybrid. Consumer Reports top-rated subcompact SUV. Stop by your local Subaru dealership or visit Subaru.ca to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. I am unashamed. What about you?

Welcome back to Unashamed, Jase. What a morning. You know, you try to prepare, Al, but less life. Life can be difficult. It's in the way. Yeah. We got little man this week. He's out for fall break.

Oh, yeah. My grandkids have been out too. So I hear sound, because I got my Bible. open. I mean, that's Jude, you know, it's hard wrap your head around. It's intense. And, uh, once I got a lot of exciting things, but I'm hearing some, some murmurs of discomfort. Mirmers of discomfort. Yep. That's what I would describe. It's a little man who's a lot more resourceful, but you know, it's like anything else, you take your eyes off of a four and a half year old for one second.

And you hear, eh, eh, and I look up. And he had, you ever seen these train tracks and they got the little fire trucks that go on the tracks? Yeah. And they light up. Well, he was, because the last time I saw he had made a donut and that thing, I was bragging on him. I was a, that's good. He was just going around in a donut. But he, like, put it, constructed it.

You can make whatever kind of racetrack you want to. And so what he did, like a four and a half would do, he thought, I'm going to put this on my head. Well, those tires were going. It was on. And it just... With the hair. With the hair.

Four wheels. Churning. The whole churned lasted. I'm going to guess three seconds. Well, now he's trying to pull it off his head. on his hair. Which, by the way, that tastes to be making to my youth because that was one of a mom's move.

Remember the hair pull? Yeah. You'd come by and she'd just grab a handful, give it a snag. And he's like, Jay Rock, Jay Rock. I'd say, quit pulling. Quit pulling. Because I thought I got to get it off. Every time he moves that thing ever so slightly, whatever space was left in the spokes.

Tighter. And so I'm like, be easy. And so, of course, then Lulu gets wind of this. She comes, what, what, what, she's blaming me. What have you done? Like you stuck the train to the boys at. Boy, trying to create racetracks out of his hair. And she was like, move on backwards, move it.

Because, I mean, I was trying to pull the hair, but you ain't going to pull that hair. it had just wrapped tight. So we were having to go backwards, you know. You had to un-for, un-foil. You got to go and reverse. It was a surgery. Then my daughter, who's leaving, going on. Because, you know, the last, if that doesn't work, it's the scissors.

It's the last thing on a deal like that is we've got to, it's got to grow out, you know. Yeah, then my daughter, who is not four and a half, blood curdling scream, you know. And I'm like, what? Now I'm trying to get the hair. the spokes. There's a spider in her vehicle. I'm like, what color was? I start, because I'm busy here.

I was thinking if it's not a black widow or because I'm breaking down, which was causing them to team up against me. She said it was brown. I said, didn't have a fiddle on its back. What? I can't drive to where she was going. Well, I don't, I wasn't looking out of that guy.

I was like, well, I'm trying, if it's not a poisonous spot, there's two options in our area. Yeah. But there, this dissertation on us, on the, what are poisonous spiders is creating. Which is why you can't panic. Stress. You got a reason. Yeah, I'm with you. And Missy's like, I mean, if that's, if you don't get that spider, she'll be distracted the whole time, you know.

She can have a wreck and it was just snowballing, you know. And so that's why I got that flyswater. I said, give me a flyswatter. And I'm like, and about that time, we're into the final locks of hair. I'm like, complete that. I'm handing it to Missy. Of course, he's thinking, oh, I feel freedom. And I had, I still have my hand on the fire truck.

Well, he's thinking that freedom, he was free. And so he bolts. Bad move. So the last wheel. he made the separation. I was like, well, buddy, because then he's, ah! I said, well, buddy, should have been patient. We were that close to the finish line,

and now you're going to have a little bald spot up there, but it'll grow back. You'll be all right. Rub it, rub it, rub it. So then I go out there, and now I'm like, now I've got to find a spider in her little Bronco, which is, you know, pretty good. Of course, when I went out there,

she had sprayed something toward it. I mean, there's liquid dripping off the dashboard. I'm like, what did you do? She's like, well, I sprayed it with some kind of cleaner, house cleaner. It was the only thing I could find. I was like, it's a spider. What's house cleaner? What is house?

She's full-blown panic. Just spray anything. But sure enough, I mean, I was fortunate. As soon as I opened the door, here's this spider just on the other side of the dashboard, flash water, quam. I'm like problem solved. She's like, well, get it out. Get it out.

I said, the spider is dead. I'm not getting it out. She's into many hard mood. Let's go come back to life. I said, yeah, we had that conversation. I was like, it's not coming back to life. You can deal with the dead spider. I've got other things I need to be doing this morning besides getting fire trucks out of

toddlers heads and spiders out of my grown daughter's vehicle. So that's it. That's funny. I literally got my bag, got my stuff, and left. And got out of there. It's funny because, so we went to Surge yesterday, which is Drew Breeze's kind of amusement park. Not a park, but I guess it is a park. It's got, you know, like arcade bowling.

Yeah, it's like a distraction. It's like a carnival inside. It is. Inside carnival. It's a good description. So we took our grants there yesterday for there because they're all in fall break. like little man. And it was funny because there wasn't many people there when we first got there.

And then they kind of started coming in. But there were three, I'm guessing they were high school kids. It's hard for me now to gauge people's age. Once you get old, they all look young, but some look older than those. But they were being recruited. So I'm assuming they were high school kids and these were college coaches. There were three or four coaches. You could tell the scenario when they all walked in.

So they're taking these kids there, but they're older. I mean, they look like grown men. And one of them's like six, eight, you know, because they're, I guess, basketball. Well, I was laughing so hard. Because, you know, kids are running around. It's loud in there. So Lisa and I are sitting over there. And just one of those grandparent things you do.

And, but these three big, like, look like grown people, but they're obviously still young. They get up on the zip line and still. They're screaming like little kids. Oh, yeah. And it was so funny because they sounded like grown men. And Lisa's looking at me like, and I said, well, babe, they're just, they're young. she's like, this is the stupidest, they're grown. I said, what, they're really not.

They're just big kids. And so I said, and they've probably never done this before. I mean, I don't know. But, you know, so they were like, I was kind of marveling at the fact they were like little bitty, they were acting younger than my grandkids. Yeah. But it was funny. Between the video games and the Carney and just us getting softer as a country,

Al, some people never leave like the seventh grade in their mind. That's right. You see it all the time. Yeah. It's hard to get. that point. That's why we're chasing so many meaningless things. That is true.

I mean, even think about it now, we got fall break. We didn't have fall break. Break from what? And look, when I was in school, I took winter break because, you know, duck season. And they're like, what are you doing? I was like, my parents sanctioned this. You know, every year, I have a condition. It's called duck fever.

We got 10 days off a half that you could miss, like, from being sick or whatever. Now, the problem was if you took it all hunting, which we always usually did, then if you got sick, you just had to go. Well, you had to go. But if I'm sick, I'd rather be, you know, at school, which is like, oh, that's so unfair to your fellow classmate. Trust me, you're going to get it.

One way or the other. Yeah, one way or another. And they actually changed that law after we went through or that. Yeah, I don't think you. I don't call it a law. But I think now it's not near that much. No, they don't. But they get more breaks.

You know, they get a week. But it's not always, like you said, it's not in a town that's good for us. So I wanted to tell you one more story that ties in. We were talking about that contending for the faith. Which is a struggle. Yeah. I liked your breakdown. Did we do that on the last podcast?

Well, we didn't. And I had accidentally put the wrong Greek word in my notes. And I recognized it when I went back through the notes. So the correct Greek word, which is still only used in this verse. I did say that. That's correct. But you said it right, it's the struggle. But inside the Greek word, which is too hard for me to pronounce,

but in the middle of the word is the word agonize, which is where we get our English word from this word. Here's the good news, guys. We have the first 12, we call them the lost episodes, first 12 episodes of the Unashamed podcast ever recorded. The only place you can see them is on our new platform called ECHL.com. You can use our code, Unashamed, and you'll get 20% off of one-year subscription,

which brings the price down, I believe, to under six bucks a month. It's very affordable, and you'll get those first 12 episodes, along with this podcast, ad-free, and a host of other podcasts that we're bringing on the platform with no ads. If you don't like the ads, that's a place to go. And also, we have movies there. We have a TV series, we have daily devotinals. A lot of other things for you guys to check out.

Go check it out, echo.com, eKKL.com, code unashamed. So now that it's getting cooler, which I love, by the way, this is the kind of weather that makes me want to really get comfortable and stay there. And that's exactly what my helix mattress is good at. Jill and I took the Helix two-minute sleep quiz, and it matched us with the Midnight Lux mattress because we're both side sleepers. So it's that middle ground, not too firm, not too soft. It's just a perfect fit for us. Ours is the moonlight, which is more for sleeping on your back. But it's really great.

It fits us perfectly. Yeah, all of us have these mattresses. and we have for years. Al and Lisa have it, Jill and I have it. Jace, you and Miss, you both have it as well. And when you're out of town, you notice a difference if you're not sleeping on a Helix. It's one of the reasons why I don't like to travel as much

because I want to sleep good. And when I'm gone, I put the mattress sitting right, I don't sleep good. But when I'm home, I sleep like a baby, and it makes a big difference in our everyday lives. So you can also sleep well.

All you have to do is go to helix sleep.com slash unashamed for 20% off sitewide, exclusively for our listeners. That's Helix Sleep. dot com slash unashamed for 20% off sitewide helixsleep.com slash unashamed. I actually thought about this moment yesterday, this in a practical way. Yeah. Because a lot of people, we don't want to get too deep for you.

So, you know, little man, we've taught him how to swim and all, but he's still, it's just, it's like if you try to make him do something, he don't want to do it. And it's like throwing and catching because I'm like, I'm helping raise this little boy. And, you know, I'm just too embarrassed for a kid to grow up under my watch and not be able to throw well, catch, swim, all these kind of things. You know, somebody's got to do that. The basics. So what I noticed yesterday, because his motivation is money for whatever reason. and I set up a basketball goal on the one end of the pool.

And so first he's trying to shoot, you know, and I was thinking his techniques off, you know, and he doesn't want to go too far out because then we got the panic on the swimming, which he's got all the basics down. We had professional lessons here. But, and he's like, well, if I make it, well, I get a dollar. And so I was thinking, tell you what, there's a, on one side of the pool, there's a step and it's like a little area for like little kids.

I put that goal on the other end. Too far I thought in my mind for him to be able to physically throw. And it's a little rubber basketball. I got two of them. Yeah, you've seen a little basketball go. I'm like, tell you what, you stand there. If you make it from here, I'll give you a dollar. And he's like, you're on.

So he started throwing these things. I'd say the first 200 throws didn't come anywhere near the target. Because he's working it out. And this became a struggle, which is why I'm saying that. But without me saying a word, I've noticed just muscle memory, I'm like, you've got to throw it higher. You got to throw it higher. I said that 50 times. But his perseverance was showing out.

the boy was just driven. And I thought all the things that I want to tell him about throwing. And then now every time he misses, I've got two balls, I'm just firing him back at him. Well, he's not worried about catching it. At first, he's flinching and all that. It's a rubber ball. After a while, you know, I donked one off his head, which I apologize for. Because, you know, I'm just throwing him back.

But he realized that didn't hurt. What was I scared about? It's just dark. And then what's that out of here? Sorry, buddy. I didn't mean to hit you right between the eyes, you know. And he's like, it didn't even hurt. So I noticed all the things.

And he's like, if a ball went off, he'd just jump out there, grab it, you know, swim back. Like it was nothing because he wasn't thinking about it. He had a goal in mind. So on about shot, I'm going to say, 460. Ow. It's very specific. He launched the ball up in the air. And I thought, this actually.

has a chance in it nothing but net that boy jumped out of the pool without a leap it was all adrenaline he just full he's like i did it chariots of fire music where's my dollar i'm going to get you that dollar so i say all that to say in all that struggle he he picked you he picked up all these other skills that I've been trying to. That just became ordinary and his muscle memory. Of course, anyone to do it again, but he had thrown so much, it was over. Between the adrenaline letdown and 460 throws, it's like his arm was no longer functional. I was like, dude, it's over. And he threw another 40, just right in front of him. I was like, you have to wake up tomorrow. You've got to be rejuven of your body. Let's go get your dollars. We went got to got dollars.

We went and got a dollar. When that boy came down this morning, I mean, you ready to go? I want to, let's get to basketball. Let's go. So this was before the fire truck in the hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went down there, and he actually, in 200 throws, made two.

Yeah. And so, poor long, he's got $3. But I'm just saying, I think there's something in here about the struggle. Yeah. You're not going to have many mountain tops in your life of following Jesus, but that struggle, because you can't have any more fun than what we had. All the near misses, the excitement, working together, learning, you know, just valuable skills. I thought, man, this is a picture of our walking Christ. So I had the same similar experience.

So we had Carly, who is 20 in marriage. She's been married now two years. and she and Joey, her husband, they do jiu-jitsu with Jay and, you know, they're both really good. So they had a belt test, and I've been to a couple of them. I've been Stone, got a belt. So they practice and work up to this point where you change your color, your belt, which means you're advancing in the process to Robesho, who's an old pal. He's a black belt.

He's like one of the best. So this for her was the next step up. And it's, you know, not a lot of women advance in this. it's more of a man thing. So this was a big deal, and she was nervous, but a lot of it is, it's not just the physical part

that's a big part of, but this is a real mental discipline and you've got to be pretty smart and figure stuff out. So she had to do 88 different moves that she has memorized, but you're doing them physically, and they call them the UK

is the person that does it with them. And so you're helping them make sure they get all their stuff done it, which in her case is her husband doing it. But she goes through all that, And this is a long, we're there three hours at the gym watching her go through this thing. And another guy was going through it too. And so she does all that.

Then she has to roll with everybody in the school, which was there were about 25 of them. And this is to get what kind of belt? This was to get, she went from a white belt to a blue belt. Did they actually get a blue belt? They get the belt. Is it blue? It's blue. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And so, and you got all your hierarchy there. There's some black belts. There's like four of them. And then there's one who is the most advanced. He's kind of the head of the whole school. Then you got your brown belts, your purple belts. You know, they're all in order.

So, but they all roll with her, even the black belts. But look, she's physically, and then in between that, they have to work out. They do like push-ups, set-ups, burp-p- it. So it's like two and a half straight hours of what you were described with a little bit, just straight physical exhaustion. And I was watching her face, and she's about, two-thirds of the way through. And there's a certain look of like despair and panic.

And I just thought, I don't know that she's going to make it. And it is hard to watch. This is your granddaughter, even though she's a grown woman now. And then I just saw her get the second win. Yeah. And she went right on through the rest of the paces. And after her, she's exhausted. Yesterday she came out of house.

She's all bruised up from the process of it. But it was an accomplishment. At the end, when they give her that brown, I mean, that blue belt, and they strap it on there and they're all clapping. and then they all started hugging and everything. It was like a moment, you know. And your lovely daughter, her cousin, came to support it. She was there.

She told me about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just the idea of it, I thought about this idea about agonized when you're all in on something. And that's the point of the, but he's talking about doing it for the faith. Well, and that's what I was going to say. And I've said this before. I think this is real important to understand, especially in our religious denominational dogbow, world of trying to make everything a formula in figuring out, you know, faith or we say by faith

and deeds. And we're looking at it to me kind of in the wrong way. And I think what's helpful is this is a relationship at the end of the day. Yeah. And when you see faith, if you think faithful, I think it makes it more clear. Because think about like a marriage, that's why we did the podcast and related this to marry we're all married to christ we've surrendered he's our lord he and the word that is used here is it's not the typical word for lord it's uh the sovereign he's our master right and so when you think

am i being faithful because it's not about perfection or you know trying to attain some kind of you know i'm keeping all the rule you're faithful in the relationship so it's kind of like married you're going to make mistakes. I've been married to my wife. 36 years now? Well, I'm, you know, I've messed up along the way. But not quitting, not giving up, being faithful, agonizing through various processes that, you know, where either she messes up, I messes up, or just life happens.

It's got to be a greater thing. This year was the year that I did my big landscaping project in my house. It's one of the best investments you can do if you want to make a lot. your home looked great. I went out just this morning to check on my lime tree, which I got from fast growing trees three years ago, and it's tripled in size. And so it's definitely in for the long term.

Well, you guys have heard us talk about fast growing trees before on this podcast, but they simplify the name now, super simple, it's just trees.com. Same company, easier name, and they're still America's largest, most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants to choose from over 3 million happy customers. Three of us were right here, and they've got pretty much anything that you need for your yard and your home. They've got fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, house plants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive happy and healthy.

Plus, their arrive and thrive guarantee means that your plants are guaranteed to show up happy and healthy. You don't have to be some plant expert gardener either to make this work because they have all the plant experts on staff that can help you and they can help you figure out what you need to plant, when to plant, and how to take care of your plants. Right now to have great deals on planting essentials. to half off on select plants and listeners to our show, you guys get 20% off your purchase when using the code Unashamed to Checkout. That's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at Trees.com using the code Unashamed to checkout. Trees.com code Unashamed.

Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Unashamed to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time terms and conditions may apply. Zach, I revisited, we did the interview with Phil. up Anthony Mitchell. And I revisited his book, which is called Contend, and it's based on this concept. And when he's talking about Jude, he made a really interesting point that I missed when we did the interview with him. He said, think about all that the people of God are not contending,

the things they do contend for that have nothing to do with faith. And then he listed some, and then I listed some more just in my notes. But, I mean, social justice, America First, race relations, socialism, capitalism, capitalism, immigration, affordability, tradition. I mean, like, all the things that churches, people of God, that get so consumed by what they contend for. And his point was, how about having some of that same passion for Jesus? And then he had John 14, 6, and 7, which is so good when Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, if you really knew me, you would know my.

you would know my father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him. And his point was, that's worth contending and agonizing for over all the other stuff, the ancillary stuff that we seem to take more time with. He says, not contending for a faith, but the faith. Yeah. And he talked to. Yeah.

It's easier. It's easier to focus on what's going on in China and Iran because I really can't make a different I mean, I mean, I could vote, but I mean, outside of that, I mean, I'm not going to, I mean, I'm not going to pick up the phone and call the president of the United States and actually have any impact on what's going on in foreign policy. So for me, it's a distraction. I can get so bent out of shape on what's going on there and pontificate. And I have opinions on all that. I mean, I certainly do. Well, we all do, yeah.

We all do. But like, but why does that tend to take up so much of my energy when I'm contending? when I think the book of Jude is talking about stuff that's right here at home. So if I got to look at right here in my own life and my own and my own heart and my own body, that's the stuff. I just think there needs to be, I think it's a great point. We need to take the emphasis, as they say, the emphasis is on the wrong syllable. Yep.

We've got to take the emphasis and put it on where we actually can have the most impact. And the most impact that you can have is in your own obedience. But, you know, I was thinking about it. about this. There was a guy you guys know this guy. He goes to your church and he's always putting this stuff on social media like these conspiracy theories. And they're like outlandish. And so one of the ones was when they had the national shootings a while back when the, the girl came into the school and shot up the school. And I knew people connected to this school. And my daughter, Lela, I literally live right down the road. And so he was basically saying,

on Facebook that this was a, this was a crisis actors and all this crazy stuff. I called the guy because I've known him for years. I've like, I've known his family. I've know his story. His son was in our college ministry. And I was like,

hey, man, what you're saying is not true. Like, and I, and I sort of, I said, you need to be careful, man,

like you're, you're putting all your energy out there on something that's so bizarre. But I know what it, it's a way for him to avoid accountability in his own life. And, and when I presented him with the facts, I know people involved in this, My daughter lives like literally a mile down the road.

Now, this really happened. These weren't actors. And he goes, I'll take that into account. I said, no, no, not into account. I'm telling you what you're saying is not true. And he just kept repeating, I'll take this into account. And then two hours later, he's posting the same thing again. And I've watched this guy's life.

And it's so sad because he's put so much energy into conspiracies and things that he has no control over when there's this glaring thing right here that God wants to deal with us in. So I think we all have to deal with that on some level. And we got to put our energy and our efforts into contending for the faith, the faith that's right here in my own heart, right here in my wheelhouse, right here who I let into my own life. That was the point that Mitchell made that I thought was really good because he says since the garden,

the number one tactic of the evil one has been to create idols for us. And in the case in the garden, of course, the idol was the fruit, was the tree, was the first thing to distract from the relationship with God. And I thought that was exactly, he's exactly right. As you go through the Old Testament history and Zach, we talked about this on Hillsdale, that the number one problem was idolatry. That's what kept taking people's eyes off of their relationship with their true king with God. And even when I thought back to First John, Jays, that we just studied, you remember we went through the whole study. and then we got to verse 21 or chapter 5, the last verse, and he says, Dear Children, Keep Yourselves from idols.

And he had not mentioned it the entire book, but then it made us rethink the whole study. And we thought, I guess that's what he was talking about the whole time was being distracted from the one thing you have to stay focused on. And it's this idea of idolatry. And so in a way, I think that's exactly what Jude is presenting as well. Because as we're going to get into all these different things, you know, these people, he's looking at and what they're doing in the in amongst the people it's a distraction it's somehow to take their eyes off of jesus when you think about the term idolatry i think it's good

to identify what we mean by that because when you hear the word idle the thing that pops up in my mind is as it's like a statue that people worship like a little like a little buddha that they put on their mantle or some kind of like that's what i think of when i think of i and there is some of that but Yeah, I mean, but that's not, yeah, but what ultimately, what, what is the way that you would biblically probably best define idolatry? And I got this from NT, right? It's when you, you take the, the, the God-given authority and dominion that you've been given to have and to exercise over creation. That's Genesis 128. When you, when you take that and then you abdicate it and you give that over to the creation to then have dominion over you.

So idolatry, what it ultimately is, so what, like, what are you doing when you worship like a wooden statue that you created? You're taking creation, this is Romans 1, and you're just giving, you're letting the creation rule you instead of you have dominion ever yet. And you actually see it here in Jude when he talks about the authority. It's kind of a weird passage in verse 6 when he says that the angels, My translation says, and the angels did not stay within their own position of authority but left their proper dwelling. He talks about like there's a condemnation that's coming for them.

They were given some type of authority. They left that and they went into, they left their position. I think a good word for that is boundary. There are boundaries that are set up in the spirit. ritual realm and in the earthly because like when you get to Sodom and Gamarra. But anyway, I'm just throwing that in. That's great because if you ever run an organization,

one of the issues that I've had in running businesses and organizations is what, here's what you always had issues is when people start meddling and stuff that's none of their business. And there's a line. You always get them, stay in your lane. Stay in your lane, bro. You know what I mean?

So I think that's like you're, you're moving out of your lane. And as creatures, like we have a lane. Now, as human creatures, we have a particular lane inside of creation even. So we were given authority. Like, we have dominion. Like, that's a real thing. But the problem is, is that when you then take that dominion and you hand that over to the creation, and that usually manifests itself in sexual immorality because of the,

the pleasure that's associated with it. And so then you give that dominion. So you're actually supposed to have dominion over your sexuality for procreation and to subdue the earth and have dominion over it. But instead, you become a slave to it. If you know anybody that's ever, I mean, if you've ever been in, indulged in pornography or sexual sin, it can have. Well, yeah. Well, that's where this is headed.

Well, in it. Because there's a boundary that is not that God designed. that obviously they're taking God's grace, his forgiveness, and using that to cross the boundaries that he set up, which is the problem here. Well, and it's the progress, Zach, what you're describing is the progressive nature of sin as well. Once dabbled into and then followed, the depravity knows no end in terms of where it goes. And that's why it gets more perverse as we go.

And again, we're kind of hitting at it here. You brought up the Angels, and he's going to mention this again a little bit later. We've all been there. You know, it's late at night. The dogs start barking. You hear something going on outside, and your thought is, where is my weapon? Which is why we started using the Stopbox Pro to safely store our firearms, and it's a game changer. Stopbox Pro gives you the secure place to store your firearm while keeping it close and accessible when you need it.

without leaving it out where the kids or unwanted guests could get to it. It's completely mechanical, so no keys, no batteries, no codes to remember. The five-button setup is designed around muscle memory. So once you know your combination, getting into it is quick and consistent. Jay, you got one right there in front of it. It's a clever invention because who can remember, you know, codes and all that. So what you do is a little practice, but I'm just going to use the muscle memory. code that I have for this box that I created.

And with a couple of fingers, pressing the right buttons, voila, get you gone. What did that take? Two seconds. Two seconds. Store it back. Safe and yet accessible. It's TSA compliant as well, so you can safely and legally check your firearm when you're flying.

For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off at Stopbox when you use the code unashamed at checkout. Head to Stopbox, USA.com, and use the code unashamed for 10% off. off your entire order. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Well, that's where we're headed. But we have to have the right foundation because the reason this was hard for me to wrap my

head around is that's why I brought up that religious dogma in denominations. We tend to just look at being saved or getting saved. You know, Jesus purchased us, you know, with his blood on a curse. else was resurrected. He was resurrected so we could be resurrected. But when you start reading from their perspective, they seem to be having some more things in mind in the spiritual world,

the, what are we going to call that, celestial world with the angels and they... Heavenly realm, maybe. Yeah, losing their... They rebel against God's order. and then get in cahoots with humans. Yeah, part of that was there. That was where I was going.

Part of that's the connection they made here. Yeah. Which we've talked about, you know, ad nauseum in the first part of Genesis. That interaction they were having with us caused major problems. I mean, that's what led to the whole flood and the whole reset. In Genesis, in Genesis, six. Yeah. We should talk about that.

Well, I think we're going to get to that. But what I want to do first, now this is a little deep, but I think it's a good foundation to understanding what we're saying and to see how people focus on one thing about what Christ did and miss, I think, what they're actually saying here. And I want to show you, y'all, y'all, this is not in our notes because I'm throwing this and this will be the first time you all probably looked at it. What I found fascinating is, in other words, audience, Jay's just let us know this was the first rabbit hole in the book of Jews. It is a rabbit hole, but it's not a...

We want to mark her. I wish we had rabbit hole music. Well, I'm going to tell you this right now. This is a biblical rabbit hole. Okay. I like a rabbit hole. What I found is the book of Jude, evidently Jude. Now, we made a claim that this is Jesus' brother.

We don't know that for 100% sure. We feel like that's the best guess, and that's what I think. But just to be clear, it doesn't exactly say that. But whatever, whoever this Jude was, and we think it was a brother of Jesus, him and Peter obviously had a conversation. Yeah, they had to know. Because Second Peter mirrors the book of Jude a lot of things in here. Very similar language.

In the last podcast, I went to Second Peter, one, all this emphasis on knowing Christ Jesus, our Lord. Well, since that time, I found another, aspect that mirrors this, and I want to read it. So if we compare Jude 4 with 2nd Peter, watch how this works, because there's two words in the Greek, which we translate Lord. Now, I'm reading now of the NIV,

and it'll be interesting to see what Zax say. But in Jude 4, it says, for certain men, and these are the false teachers that have infiltrated, yeah, come in, and he's making a point that these kinds of people were written about long ago, and he's going to get into the examples. But when he describes them in the second sentence of Judeford, he says, they are godless men who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality, which is what we just got through talking about.

But then he's going to show how this gets into the spiritual, angelic world, who have performed the same rebellion. They've crossed these boundary lines that God set up. And they denied Jesus Christ. Now look, it uses two words here for Lord. And the NIV, it says Jesus Christ are only sovereign and Lord. Is that what yours says? Well, there's two different words.

Right. Now, if you go to Second Peter, I want to show you where these two words are. 2 peter 1 after the part that i read last time about knowing christ jesus in verse 8 and remember at the end of verse 8 and 2 peter 1 it says for if you possess these qualities this self-control perseverance that's the struggle yeah that we just talked about in increasing measure they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge knowing our lord jesus Christ well that that one Lord there is the second Lord in Jude 4 he says it again in

verse 11 of 2 Peter 1 he says make your calling an election sure now notice what it says calling an election and that that framework is in much debate and dominant denominational dogma what does that mean to be called and elected think about how many arguments there are so watch how this works for if you do these things, to be sure about your relationship with Jesus, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom. And now here's that word again. It's the second one for Lord of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

But watch what happens when you get to chapter 2 of 2nd Peter 2. And now this is a, I think, you're talking about a whistleblower? This is something that makes you go, hmm, because he uses that other word for Lord here, the one that's translated sovereign. Watch 2.1. But there are also false prophets among the people. Well, this sounds like Jude. Somebody's come in here,

just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying, well, look at here, the sovereign Lord. That's the same word used in Jude, where it says these godless men who changed the grace of God

into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ are only sovereign and Lord. So he's already mentioned the second one in the first chapter. Now he mentions this. Here's the mic drop.

But watch what he says. Because most people would say, well, these aren't ones that are called or elected. These people I mean, they're false teachers. Well, watch this next phrase. The sovereign Lord, who bought them?

Now look, any time I've ever been in a debate with these people in our religious world who say, well, Jesus didn't die for everybody, you know, you got two camps. You got the ones God elected, and they'll go on to say, well, Jesus didn't die for everybody. He only died for those elected. Well, here we have the false teachers. why would it say that he's the sovereign lord who bought them not you he bought them he purchased them

and they're bringing swift destruction on themselves so the reason that doesn't make sense to people who kind of have zeroed in on one thing because they read that and they're thinking well that doesn't make sense that doesn't fit my narrative and so i think what you can do and and i look this up for you. When you look at these two words, I mean, they're really close to meaning the same thing. So I'll just read you, and I did this through AI, but I said, I don't want any denominational framework,

only the context on what these two words are. So the first one that's used in 111, and the one translated Lord in Jude 4, it is a literal meaning Lord or master generally denoting authority, ownership, or respect. That's why this comes back to surrender. When you say, I want Jesus to be the Lord of my life, so that's, you're looking at him as the general authority owner, master of my life. And you're submitting to that authority. Yeah.

When you go to the other one, the one translated sovereign, it's an absolute ruler. owner, or this says despot, D-E-S-P-E-S-P-E-D-S-PET. Strictly speaking, the legal master and owner of a household. Here, and this is the context, Peter warns against false teachers, this is Second Peter 2-1 breakdown, the master who bought them,

while Curios, the other word for Lord, highlights general lordship, Dispopez emphasizes absolute unchangeable authority and the imagery of being purchased redeemed. The new Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid is the most fuel efficient cross trek yet. That means less time filling your tank and more time filling your day. More court time. More ride time. More lake time.

More camp time. More go time. The new 27 Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid. Consumer Reports, top-rated subcompact SUV. Stop by your local Subaru dealership or visit Subaru.ca to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. Which is interesting because when I'm hearing that, when I hear that, whether you submit or not, he's still Lord. Well, right.

And he's still cyber. Now, here's where this gets tricky. The reason I think we don't understand this and the reason I thought, huh, how have we missed this just in our religious America church? It's because when you go back to that Ephesians 5 where that slavery, I mean, what did I say, Ecclesiastes, I meant Exodus. When you go back to the Exodus, which Jude brings up, well, think about what this, what Jude is mirroring there. What did Jesus do? His first marriage was with the nation of Israel, and they're in captivity.

Well, he freed them from what? What? What was oppressing them? Yeah. It was human leaders in cahoots with spiritual forces, and they were holding God's people captive. Yeah. So he freed them.

He bought them, in essence. And how did he do that? Well, there was a lot of things. You know, this is before we've even got to blood on a cross or the resurrection. Although, interestingly enough, there was blood on a doorpost. Exactly. From a lamp to give you those little... Well, that's why Jews using that.

Ultimately, it's all accomplished in Jesus. But there's a narrative here with these spiritual forces of evil in cahoots. And look, you know what it's going to... You know where this is going to take you to where we're going? Think of when he quotes the book of Enix, and it goes back to the Genesis 6 where these angelic forces have crossed a boundary, and they looked at human people. women, and said, oh, they were filled with lust.

And so I didn't know, you know, angels could necessarily look like humans, but then it makes sense when you then read an obscure passage like Hebrews 134 where it says, be careful when you entertain angels. Because by doing, I mean, when you entertain strangers, because by doing so, you may be welcoming angels and not knowing. Yeah. What a weird verse. Right. But when you look back to Genesis 6, you're like, oh, I guess they can become human light. When you go back to Sodomagamar, remember?

These angels look like men. So much so that the perverted people of these cities wanted to have sex with it. And that's what we're going to get into this, because there's an obscure little Greek phrase here that says, since we're here now, I'll go ahead and read it. Which you're talking about a mind blower. when Jude said I mean it's so difficult to wrap your head around when he says

what is the NIV says say verse 7 in a similar way Sodom and Gamara in the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality well we know that member Sodom and Gamara

was known for homosexuality mainly anything goes but it's specifically says that. Right. But then this next, now the NIV says, and perversion.

But when you look at the Greek language there, it's the pursuing strange flesh. Now, we can go down a rabbit hole about that. Yeah. Because I looked at it, and it's like, well,

because you have angels who have taken on human flesh in some capacity. And I really think that's what it's talking about when you look at it. Right. Because it's not the homoverse that's usually, it's the hetero, but it's a strange flesh.

So I think actually the big argument has developed in the religious world over, was this about them pursuing homosexuality? Or was it about them pursuing angels? Like now we have Genesis 6 reversed. Instead of angels pursuing human flesh, now you have humans pursuing. Angelic flesh. Angelic beings that have become men. So I think it's both. They were pursuing homosexuality and unbeknownst to them, because how would they know?

Right. It was actually angels in some form of human flesh, which is why I think this is translated strange flesh. Right. There you go. There's your rabbit hole. But my whole point is, I think this idea of surrendering, and you look at the idea of surrendering, and you're looking at this, there's two aspects that he's going to address.

Obviously, Jesus came to take away our sins, and we know what the purchase is all about, but he also, think Colossians 2 now, came to disarm the authorities in the heavenly realms that take captive human beings in philosophy. Thank the evil one in all his divisive ideas. that lead people to doing things that are outside God's boundaries and the way he set it up. That part of the Bible narrative, which is from Genesis all the way to Revelation, is what's being addressed here. Oh, yeah.

We just haven't looked at it because we're so obsessed with, well, you know, Jesus died for my sin. We're making it all about us instead of us and the spiritual world who's not adhering to God. God's boundaries as well. Right. So it goes back to the garden because what happened? Man chose to sin. They chose to eat that fruit. But they also were influenced by a spiritual being who had rebelled against where God had called him to be.

And so if you're not ready for that, what we're fixed to go over is going to blow your mind. You're going to be like, what in the world is ill? I'm not hearing this in Sunday morning Sunday school. We kind of deal with this at our church. I think that where we live is there's a lot of the New Age community here, a lot of mysticism, Buddhism, witchcraft, wicked culture. And so I've noticed that a lot of these folks come to our church and some of them, a lot of become Christians.

But one of the things you're going to be careful of is that you can't worship the angels. You can't worship the spiritual experience, right? And there's all this emphasis on having these, what they call what I've heard termed esoteric knowledge, which means hidden knowledge. But the knowledge of Christ is a hard one commentator say it's not private property, it's public property, and it's for everybody. And but we want, you read the Colossians 2 passage, you read Jude, and you start to realize there is some, there is a spiritual realm that is real, and you can actually be let astray and into destruction by worshipping the spiritual realm. I think it's also a problem that charismatic church often deals with, not against the charismatic

church, but if you're not careful, you can worship the emotional experience and the gifts of the spirit and we want to conjure up all these things. and we're trying to connect on a spiritual level. And then what happens is we lose connection with what Paul says in Colossians with the head who is Christ. And I think that's the same point that Jude is warning against. It's like, you let these people come in and they do it secretly. They kind of work their way in there. And then they start teaching these destructive heresies.

And the way that you can identify the destructive heresy is that it will eventually lead to the denying of the sovereign Jesus Christ's Lord. ultimately that's what will it will attack and so in their case they were taken perhaps a teaching of paul and his message around grace and then they're perverting that then into a license to actually sin and i i can't help but think that i wonder if they were on some level trying to use kind of the the spiritual spiritualism to kind of distract from the fact of what's really going on here in our heart That is a pattern I've seen throughout even just today. Well, I think that's one aspect. And I think Paul to the letter in Colossians was they were worshiping angels.

But here, when you kind of go back and see what he's using Sodom and Gamara as an example, I think some of it is just old-fashioned immoral sex and justifying. That's a threat of it. What do they want in Sodom of Gimorra? They wanted to have sex with the angels. But I'm not sure they knew that they were. I mean, how would you, if you think about it practically, I realize I'm just inserting that, you probably wouldn't think,

oh, there's an angel. I think because they were angelic, and now some of this, if you read just Jewish literature, different Jewish writers about that occurrence, which I did, you know, it's like, I forgot what the historian who wrote this, because they were making an argument like I was about there was two things on why Jude's call them this strange flesh. They're obviously young men.

And if they're angelic, I'm pretty sure they had some kind of glow about them or whatever. Well, they were projecting something that was different from everybody else. I was just thinking they were probably good looking, which is why, and when you go back to Genesis 6. Yeah. Yeah. They obviously didn't have a problem getting a date. But Genesis 6, I think what's interesting at Jude is, so you go back to Genesis 6, and it's the angels coming down to have sex with the humans. He gets to Sodomacomacomacomor. It's the humans trying to have sex with the angels. Well, that's what I said. But what it is, it's the eradication of the boundary.

And it's them artificially trying to bring heaven and earth together. I mean, there's a lot here. Yeah, I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying it's not just about worship. I think you can mess up 101 different ways, you know, when it comes to the angelic world. But to me, I was making the point is one thing where you can mess up is deny that that's a reality. And that there is an order that God created that you're supposed to respect. And then when you don't, judgment comes, which is the thread that pulls it all together. All right, we're out of time.

We'll have to pick it up here next time. We're not ashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.