Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 160 | The Unashamed Sex Episode

Episode Date: October 11, 2020

Phil, Jase, and Al host an open and honest discussion of sex with sexuality expert and Ultimate Escape podcast host Steve Holladay. The guys go into the problem with churches that don't talk about sex, kids and internet pornography, how to inoculate kids against sexual problems, why young people aren't getting married, and sex without responsibility. Steve says you can learn a lot about sex from a duck call. And Jase recalls being traumatized by Phil's speech on sexually transmitted diseases. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we have today a guest. I love guest days. A good friend of our Steve Holliday. And Steve and Holly have been at our church about four years. And y'all came from Dallas area. The Dallas area. So first time we met them, obviously was when we were meeting there together. And then we did dinner at your house. You guys came over to our house. And we just, just, you know, what you guys did amaze me. And now, as you've been here a little while, I didn't even know you guys could sing and are talented, you know. It might still be out on that. That's how we.

No, you guys are awesome. Well, y'all go around and talk about marriages and are real transparent with your past and helping marriages, but you also can sing. And so when we started helping out with the worship, or I guess we were asked by Trent, who was the pastor? there. We were trying to form a team of servants that would just, you know, try to make our experience on Sunday mornings awesome.

And you're part of our team, you and your wife. So we connected in that. Right. And then they have a, what's your class? The class before the COVID. Now we hadn't had to be able to do it. Yeah, it was Holy Roar. The Holy Roars.

I call them the Holy Rollers is what I call. But the Holy Roars, yeah. It was inspired. by that book that came out on worship. But it was awesome. It was good because you guys kind of, I mean, you did it over singing and over songs, but then you were bringing in some teaching. So it was just kind of a way to be able to stay inspired because the Bible says so much about worship.

And it does. And in most groups, not just our group, in religion itself, you get such in the habit of doing the same thing over and over and singing the same songs over and let's face it. becomes a bit dry. Yeah. And especially for the young people, because they come in there and they're like, I mean, you just think about what all they have to deal with on the internet and entertainment and everything.

And then you're just hearing the same songs and it just gets a little. It becomes ritualized. It's just something you do. So I didn't realize until I studied for a year and a half how much the Bible talks about worship in these moments especially in the gospels where Jesus has this powerful moment and it triggered a spontaneous moment of worship right and so we tried to infuse that in some of our Sunday morning gatherings but the side part of that was the connection we all made with that group and we've kind of moved on since we're living in Texas half the time and so y'all are still doing well with the team

Well, what it did was, it was just, it's like anything else, when things change in a church setting, it opens up opportunities for other people. And so, Perky, who was a local teacher, just a, I don't know, just a very talented musical person. He can play any instrument. But his job for us, working with you guys earlier, but now he's kind of doing it solo, is he takes contemporary songs, you know, Christian songs that are great. and then arranges them, you know, in a way that you can do it a cappella, because we have an acapella service and we have an instrumental service. So a lot of times we're singing the same songs on both sides of our building on Sunday morning, but on one side you've got the instruments, and the other side it's all voices.

And it's really unique. And, of course, I go back and forth because I preach sometimes in both services. So I find it fascinating and enjoy both because they're so different. But I love that we were able to hold on to some really good tradition. There were a couple of ladies there Sunday, Steve from Dallas area, and they had never experienced acapella worship before. And so they were like, oh, this was so amazing. It was so beautiful, you know, and so it was going on and on.

So it's really neat because sometimes, like you think about the instrumental service in our case, where all the young people go, college kids are in there and all that. But sometimes people do appreciate the difference in something, different. You know, so we just, you know, we tried to do it at an excellent pace. And that's what Missy, I think, first brought to the table, you know, when she started working with that, you know, a couple of years ago. And so you guys have kind of been a, some of the fruit, I guess, of that.

Well, and what's not saying is it's a lot of work. It's hard to make. And what we were trying to do. That's why you said that we had a group of servants. You're exactly right. Oh, my goodness. When you're trying to take a song year on the radio, this contemporary, the and to transform that into an acapella song

that people just, it's not like fingernails on the chalkboard, which you can go down that road, to make it moving and real. It just, it's phenomenal. So did you grow up from our heritage? Did you go up to the Acapella? So you know how, I always tell people, does I tell the two ladies other day?

The Acapella done well is beautiful. Acapella not done well is not beautiful. I mean, you need... I've been a part of both in my life. I'm old school, so I volunteered to go across the river, a little small group over there, and I rolled in there, and I said, if you're looking for a song service,

I said, I tell you what, well, go to the book of Acts. Jesus has just left. There's been 3,000 saved. He peace the gospel to him. I said, let's see. They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread, and to prayer. Everyone was filled with all.

Many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had anything in common. I said, I'm waiting on the song service. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to everyone's head. They continued to meet together. into temple courts, they broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts. They praise God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And he landed to their number of those who were being saved.

I said, here's the deal. I can't sing. I can't care tune in a bucket. I said, we're not going to have a song service until we find somebody around this place that can sing. I said, if you want to volunteer, stand up and fire it up and we'll go with you. I said, we're ready when you are. Go for it.

well nobody moved I'm like when we get some singers around here we'll well about a year later finally somebody volunteered so now he finally said I had somebody good thing so we started on the ground floor so now we have a song

so I said now if you can sing I said boy you're missing your gift get up and do it right now we'll join with you because I heard stories about I said if we can't sing can't care tune in a bucket the worst thing we could do is make a feeble attempt at it I said so let's just wait Well, when you sing acapella, I mean, you're on an island.

Yeah, you don't. I mean, they did a successful show. You know, what made American Idol successful is getting people to try out to sing acapella who think they can sing. That's what I'm saying. And then it's so bad that it becomes entertainment. Because they're like, what about that? Yeah.

And then you got the guy from England. And then they're not laughing with you. They're laughing at you. This is like a bad. person on a cruise ship trying to make a buck. Well, everybody laughs. It is good now that, so that's been almost two years ago. So two years later, we're much bigger, way more people, got a little song service in there.

And now I told someone, they said, well, you know, when you started out, there was no singing at all. I said, we couldn't, no one knew how to sing. I said, you know, couldn't care a tune in a bucket. I said, but now we're far enough along. I said the biggest thing is now so many more are being saved all the time. We got something to sing about now. I'll tell you this, though, there's an obscure verse in the Gospels right before Jesus was arrested when it says he took his disciples and they went out and they sang a hymn.

And I just try, you know, in all my study, there's something so small about that verse yet so powerful. here's the created universe becoming a man he's fixed down on a cross and he had that experience with those disciples because i think more in he was preparing them for what was going to happen but i just think for the future of all they had to go through don't you know they sang that same song throughout all the travails of that you brought up an interesting point jace it would be pretty good if you were with the people of god the kingdom of god jesus being the king their sins have been washed away they're guaranteed to be raised from the dead they do have something to sing about,

but it would be pretty good if you could just fix it to where every time you sang, it was kind of like spontaneous. Someone just starts a song, and you join in with him. Well, that would be kind of what Jason's talking about. They just walked out there and they said, somebody probably started going well and started leading one,

and they just, they chimed in, but spontaneity could be helpful. That's Matthew 2630 was where that's at. What was the one that, is it Corinthians or Ephesus where he said sing songs to one another? Yeah. You know, that idea is what you're saying. Well, I was going to bring that up. I mean, you just think about the contrast. And I know we're going to talk about family in y'all's ministry.

But one of the main reasons that I pursued my wife is because I heard her sing to the Lord. And I thought, I need this in my life. I mean, if there's by some mirrors. The judge, out of all the reasons to find a love a woman singing, I didn't think that would be part of. I just thought, you know, it did something to me. When she opened her mouth and started singing, I thought, whoa, I need to pursue this. I want a front-road seat to that. But, Al, you brought up Ephesians 5 because I want to say this.

You think about people who let their guard down where a lot of singing is going on. I mean, we've all been to country music concerts, you know. People get a little liquid courage, you know, and all of a sudden they think they can sing. That's right. Well, Ephesians 5, you have this contrast where he said, don't get drunk, but yet be filled with the spirit, speak to one another. And then he lists, which I love, which is what we were trying to do,

three different categories of how you can sing. Psalms, which is with a stringed instrument, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart. I thought, what a contrast, you know, Paul via the Holy Spirit. He gives you this image of this spontaneity singing that people, drunk people do, because they're having fun because they're not themselves. He's like, no, you be filled with the spirit.

And he gives you choices. Not spirits. By the way, how to do that. While you're there, Jace, it is at least interesting that when God was populating planet earth. He's bringing the people and he's giving all these people on the generations of where they came from tracing all the way back to

Adam Eve, Cain and Abel one kill the other one, Seth and other sons and daughter. He's populating earth. It is interesting and pretty enlightening. He's talking about different ones. His brother's name was Jubal.

That's Jabal. Back on Jubal. The brother old Jubal. He was the father. of all who play the harp and flute. Well, it is pretty interesting when you're populating the earth. You gave some people an innate ability with the flute and the harp. Well, that right there tells you,

this is going to be used later on to praise God, or he wouldn't have made them that were really good at it. So a lot of people you notice you say, boy, you know, that guy can really play a guitar. He's, yeah, Jubal. It came from Jubal. They're like, Jubile, who's that? So I guess Perky is a Jubalite there.

He's a Jubilite. I nicknamed Perky Snap. Some people just got it. Because he's snapping. You know, when you're singing acapella, there's no music behind it. Well, the drums keep people on the timing in a song. I didn't know that until I used to sing some at CR that the drum is keeping your, making sure you're pacing your song right at the beat of it. And so you don't have drums.

So Perky is the drum. Look, when I first met. And that perky, he was like, you know, I'll show you what I can do. And he brought an instrument called, I think it was called a Diziery Doe where you hum. Have you ever seen that? Yeah. He brought it and it was. That was a old guy.

It was a little rock and roll. No, no. Blowing in the tube, you know. Yeah, that's it. It just went like, it basically sounded like. And I was like, like, like a bullfrog? That's it. And he was like, yeah, it's pretty sure.

It wasn't a whiskey jar. No, it was like a, I think he called it. So let me get this right. God made people who is going to be the father. Here's old jubal of the stringed instrument. But then he said, but I never want to hear him. You know, when you come, I'm like, wait a minute here. Wait a minute.

He made people that were good at this. Well, I know that was for our benefit, the human race. I'm being honest here. You say he made some people that were just known. all the way to voice, whether it be voices or singing or instruments or whatever, he made some people that are good at it. He did. Let's take a break.

And also to that, which is part of our heritage is we come from churches of Christ, but we split with the Christian church 120 years ago over that issue. Shouldn't have done that. And you're right. It was just crazy. You look back on it and you think about that because, you know, your praiseing God is praising God. You know, why would instruments be able to be used for entertainment without God and not include God? And he made them that were very skilled, the DNA.

Yeah. You say it's in their DNA. Steve will tell you, the theme of our Holy Royal class was it's not how you worship it, too. Right. And because, you know, the Ephesians father that I just went through, I don't know how you could be more diverse in what he was explaining there. I mean, there's no, he wasn't breaking down how you, I mean, he did say don't get drunk on wine. but he was giving you a picture. We know what that picture is.

It's a bunch of people partying. Thinking they can sing, falling down. They're like, oh, we're being happy. And of all things he could contrast. It's almost like you're almost in an uncontrolled state, which is his analogy, in the spirit, where you're singing these different types of songs, but it's not how.

It's who. You know, he gets down to the end, he says, submit to one and a number. another out of reverence for Christ. And he says, it's in the name of our Lord Jesus. You know, make music in your heart to the Lord. Always giving thanks to God to the Father. His point was not the point that people are making.

Well, what was he talking about? He was talking about who? Yeah. And so I think that's where we missed. One of my favorite stories in the Bible is in Acts 16, talking about spontaneous singing. When Paul and, was Paul in Silas? Yeah, Paul and Silas had been beaten

and they're in prison, locked in chains, and they just break out singing in the middle of the night. Well, so far I've heard you three, but now the audience is wondering, well, when did Steve come in? We're going to get the... We were just... Oh, you let the groundwork.

You know the connection. That groundwork chew up an hour for you, cat liquor's tail. We were just letting that meander. That doesn't like the meandry. He gets too far off the past, Steve. That's what he does. We have a guest today.

He'll say, something in a minute, about 20, 30 minutes. Well, you know how hard it is to get a word in edgewise ear. You're afraid to interrupt. You almost have to interrupt. Steve, boys, can, they never run out of stories. They're always right in the middle of this great. Here they're not from the best.

You're exactly right. That's where it started. Well, since dad has moved us along, I do, I will tell the audience why I invited Steve on. So I was reading this, as I want you to tell our audience about your ministry, because I find it fascinating. Steve is a counselor, among other things. And I read this article about the collapse of the traditional fame.

That's the name of the thing. And actually went, then I looked it up online and found the actual joint economic committee of the U.S. Congress. They did this whole thing. And I thought, why would the Congress come up with a title that says the demise of the happy two-parent home? And it just intrigued me. And then the more I dug into it, I realized that this group of people, the reason they would do a study like this about families and how different they are in America is because they're figuring out where to send money. You know, their whole deal is Congress is like, where do we send the money to?

So they observe these changes in our behavior. But it's actually, it's interesting because the stats kind of showed a lot to me. So I was looking at that and thought, I want to get somebody on the podcast that works a lot with, families with things that go wrong because obviously that's happened a lot. So that's why I asked you on here, Steve, tell the audience a little bit about ultimate escape and kind of what you do, how you got into it. What's it called?

Ultimate escape. Ultimate escape. So we basically partner with churches, families, organizations, and address the area of sexuality, specifically addictive sexual behavior, sexual identity issues, and sexual trauma or sexual abuse. a lot of presentations at churches. Our tagline is you can learn a lot about sex from A and then fill in the blank. Chocolate bunny is probably the most well-known of all the object lessons.

But when we moved here, we added one. You can learn a lot about sex from a duck call. Just in honor of the whole West Monroe. If we're going to be in West Monroe, we might as well be like West Monroe, right? And so that's basically what our ministry does. The counseling is a part of that. So we do local counseling, you know, where we're based, but also do counseling when I'm speaking at different churches. And so we're doing a group for missionaries.

Every two years I go to Brazil and do counseling for the missionaries at that conference, typically about 50 guys. And so, you know, I'll spend three or four days just throughout the afternoon evening doing counseling. And it's almost always around early sexual encounters, which have then morphed into pornstress. struggles or affairs or what have you. So as you said, you know, when things go wrong early on, those typically come out in ways that destroy families.

So our audience is more male and a lot of young men watch and listen to unashamed. And so I just know from some of the back and forth that I've had, you know, with some young men, but what a struggle this is. I mean, and so what, what, what,

How big a problem is internet pornography and everything that goes with it in. Universal? Yeah. You know, about 100%. Yeah. Well, that's what I thought. Well, I've never purchased a cell phone. Oh, here we go.

But, Phil, I'll say this. The first time I heard y'all do y'all's presentation, I had no idea what y'all we're going to talk about. But, I mean, like 30 seconds in, I thought, this is fixed to get uncomfortable. comfortable. You know, a lot of churches, for whatever reason, they just don't talk about it. Which is part of the problem, right, Steve? I mean, our family was-

Because people are talking about it, trust me. Our family was raised in an environment. You probably figured it out from our listeners that there was no taboo subject. I mean, I remember coming home from school asking Phil what VD was, because I heard somebody talking about it. and Phil went on a withering barrage of all these things I'd never heard of. He wasn't talking about Victory Day either. Look, he was like, they will rot everything you have from the hips down.

It will be gone. And look, I was eight years old and I was traumatized. But I tell you this, later on on my first date, I remembered that speech because I was thinking, gonorrhea so but i've had to counsel some young couples who've heard a speech like that yeah yeah sometimes it goes some counseling uh but no i got i got past it but i was just gonna say i'm glad that you're i mean because i know it has to be or at least at first a little uncomfortable the settings that you're in that people are like oh my goodness we're fixed to talk about this especially if you're guilty.

Like if you're, I can't imagine people who are like addicted to porn on the internet and then here you come in, and the next thing you know, we're graphically talking about this in detail. Holly says it was the first five years of sitting at the back listening to me do presentations before she finally stopped turning red

every time we said the word masturbation. Oh, yeah. Dad dropped that one on a response. I've heard that story, yeah. He read it a letter. Al, we got to tell the story that. This brother has come down today. And Phil, he wrote, at our church, at our church, we are one of the few churches I've ever been to,

that when somebody comes down and shares their problems, they, they said out loud. Just to pray for him and to help him. I understood that. And I said, but they were, the, our brothers were just not used to say, and here's an interesting prayer here. so let's get around this brother and pray for us. He wrote a letter and said, I'm struggling with masturbation,

and dad read the letter. And every time he would say it, it was like somebody was in the back with the something just hammered on the... I was chastised by that with, at the time, church leadership. I ended up in church leadership, but before I got there,

I was pre-churched. I was like chastised on some things you just don't bring up. They were wrong, but I just said that. To me, that was one of the things that drew us to that we have our church. When Holly and I came and visited one day,

we just happened to be coming through town and dropped in for church service. And the number of people who responded and the transparency of the responses, you know, we didn't hear the, I've said none things I shouldn't have done, please pray for me. We heard very specific,

some pretty sensitive issues. Yeah. And I thought, man, that's exactly what it ought to be on. We learned that as we dealt with human beings. You know, if you look at it, you know, that Romans won, God's pretty blunt

through the Holy Spirit. spirit having the apostle paul write down you know perverse and whatever they receive in themselves the due penalty for their perverse he's they don't mess around with that i mean it's a serious thing yeah and our church's defense it's a safe place where people wouldn't do that and there's no rocks being thrown and people gather no one ever responds alone there's always the people working with them that go with them and it's always love and it's always forgiveness but when phil read that i remember it was a collective gas from the audio. It was an audible.

Yeah. And I thought, I was thinking that this need to be done. Yeah. But the roof didn't fall in, right? No, it didn't fall in. And guess what? You know, I mean, it's something that we're going to deal with.

Well, let's take another break. Well, actually, it, that and some other things, one was Mack Owen's response to being a drug addict. You know, he's his, dad worked for the church, his other, his father and I was an elder. Those things broke down. The church can't talk about bad stuff at our church at WFR. So that happened over these instances, I think, where people just started getting more and more real. Then it was like, well, you know what? People are finding healing that way. Because if we feel like we can talk about whatever our issues

are with other people, because I'm sure what you deal was to even, I don't put words in your mouth, but is people that are super ashamed of what they've been doing or what they've been seeing or whatever. And so, and I know that shame and guilt, that's, that's what the evil one uses to keep it in the dark, right? Yeah, one of the common things that I'm working with a family, especially when there's, there's inappropriate sexual behavior going on within the children and the family. The fear is if anybody at church finds out, they'll kick us out of church. And so the last people they want to go to are their pastors, their shepherds, which, you know, Tamisha is the the opposite of how it ought to be.

That's right. So do you think, obviously, not only as technology computers and cell phones, as we talk about a lot of this podcast, obviously we're a result of a good thing here because we're talking about this subject and others on these same devices, but obviously there's an end more for younger and younger people,

and I guess women and young boys and girls, but especially for boys. Because I just remember the first time I sort of discussed, pornography was you know some guy's house and under his dad's bed there was a magazine yeah I mean that's that was that first introduction but now of course everybody's carrying around you know a potential well it's live sex acts you right it's not pictures so it's so when when a young child sees that you know natural progression is to turn around and act out well if this is what I saw

then I'm doing that one of the more recent consults I've had was with a family, a nine-year-old boy and a three- or four-year-old daughter in the family. Several years ago, the nine-year-old at age six was exposed to pornography, interestingly enough, by another child at church and has now started acting out on the younger sister. So here they are now at age nine, and sister age, like I said, I don't remember, maybe around four. Just a small. It's very, very young.

Yeah. And they're looking for help, and there are not any professionals in their area that are available with COVID, because people aren't seeing, you know, live. What's your advice to them regarding, I call it the black box, the, the, the, the cell phones, I mean, what these people, I mean, how closely does that have to be monitored by their parents? Very closely, and I sure wouldn't recommend it, you know,

for someone at a very young age. Yeah. I saw the average age of kids introduced to the Internet as five. Wow. Which is frightening. Well, what happens is a lot of I've noticed is that people use iPads and computer stuff like that. Basically as virtual babysitters because they don't want to really have to go play or whatever. And so what happens is they're just assuming because they're playing some game on their whatever

that they would never get access, but we all know how easy it is for something to just pop up or happen in this, you know. And porn marketers use children's games as a gateway to expose them to porn. So they click on what looks to be a child's game or a cartoon ad, and boom, it takes right to a triple X porn site. Good, that.

Isn't that something? That's making me angry. It should make a single. Well, I mean, yeah. Gee, well, yes. So is it a governmental fix, or is it a family, fixed to say, look, I mean, so how do you have?

You would hope both. The whole world should declare war on this. Right, because all it does is destroy. I mean, I think back to that John 1010, the thief comes only to steal, kill, and destroy. You think about what Steve just described, you take a little, or the little four-year-old girl who's now, she'll be altered for the rest of the way, and the boy too, but these two young children are altered forever. And that's the thing about it. Not meaning they can't find healing can't find things because, you know, Lisa and I did. That's what happened to her. Uncle molester

over a period of years puts this bad thing in her head that she's only here to please men. That's what she thought her role was. And then all the problems she had before me and then we had after when we had to go through a lot of, you know, meeting with folks just like you to find that place of healing. So that's the sad thing is you see it's the, the fix. of course is God and, you know, the individual, but I don't know that you could ever, the evil one is so entrenched in this thing. I don't know how you'd ever do it by some program or some other way. I don't do you see. I mean, it's going to have to be individuals that just I think it's got to be family. It's got to be parents. You know, kids are going to be exposed.

In this, in this culture we live in, it's impossible to keep them from being exposed. So to me, it's how do you arm your kids so that when they get exposed, they can handle that in the best way that it can talk about it that doesn't become a secret that they that they've had a rehearsed conversation if a friend says hey you want to see this video well you know I'm not just called off guard and sure you need to ask a question or what kind of video you're talking about is there a way to what sanction it to toward it to well they do have they do have filters and and there's I mean why give your child something but You shouldn't.

Steve's saying no matter what, they basically concluded you're not going to get away from it. No matter what, right? Is that what you mean? Whether it's on TV, whether it's magazine, a cell phone. I saw the little gyrating girls other day, 10, 11 years old, the bunch from France. The cuties. On Netflix. That's not helping.

No. You just saw the ad port, I guess. So what's the answer to that part of it? I mean, since our culture is spiraling downward every decade it goes by. Preparation, talk, begin early conversations. I recommend by age three we're having conversations with our children about body parts, answer basic questions, satisfy curiosity. Certainly by six or seven, they need to know where babies come from,

they need to know what sex is, just a simple, just, you know, filling that blank in their mind. biblical concept. Something is off limits. If it's forbidden, it just creates a desire in me to want to know it or do it. If the curiosity is satisfied, it's like an inoculation. So if we can answer those questions our kids have, much less likely to then believe what the world tells them or what a friend tells them. If you take Jesus' words at face value, you'll know the truth.

The truth will set you free. Okay. So if I have the truth about sex already filled in, then when lies come, it's just like water off the duck's back. I don't absorb the lie because I've already got the truth in there. That's great. And that has started. Let's take another break. So what would you tell, Steve?

A lot of our listeners, as I said, have issues. So say he got a teenage boy, and he feels guilty, but he's looking at it. He doesn't want to. And so he's trying to figure out what can I do? Because I get that question a lot. So what would you tell them? The ones who have been engaged for a while, they desperately don't want to do this anymore,

but like anything else with lust or whatever, they keep being drawn into them. Number one, that conversation is a long conversation because there's so much connected to it. Probably the thimble version is, what's the payoff or what's the escape? And sometimes it's both. The payoff.

When I'm looking at the porn, what desire the heart is being met? Do I feel powerful? Do I feel connected? Do I feel wanted? do I feel accepting me, what am I getting out of it when I'm watching it? Or am I numbing something out? And just like any drug or other behavior, when I'm watching it, something isn't there

that normally is, like lonely or sad or anger or shame, guilt. So if I can identify those two things. Now we've got a path to go down and much more successful than just go the Bob Newhart, stop it. if you seem to stop it video before that little skit. I love that skit. It's a Greek skit. The absurdity of just telling somebody,

well, just don't do it. Yeah. Or I'm going to put you in a box. I always think of that. On the drug, you know, the big revelation about what we're going to do about drugs, you know, Nancy Reagan, how about let's just say no? Okay. You know, but it just didn't really work because why?

What do we say yes to? Why are we even doing this? I mean, I think sex is the same. Well, it is, and that's a great way to describe it, is to figure out the why. Why is this such an appeal to me? To somebody else doesn't seem to be a problem at all, but that's because something's driving them, right? And some people can just stop. I mean, literally it's, okay, well, that's a bad thing.

I don't want to do that anymore, so I just quit. And some people can, but other people are in that struggle you're describing. I mean, I want to stop and I know it's wrong, but something just keeps, keeps prepared. propelling me down that road. Right. And that didn't even begin to get into the trauma effect or trauma bond that if I've been molested, abused, or exposed early to some kind of sexual behavior, you know, normal to recreate that.

And so sometimes we're drawn to watch what's been done to us. Right. And that is a, that's a whole layer deeper. Right. Some from a victim side and some from a perpetrator. You could see it from both sides. Well, I think that's kind of what. first drew Lisa and I to you and Holly was,

because you guys are very open and talk about past problems, talk about those things, and we're the same way because when you find healing from these things, whatever they are, you want to help other people because you hate seeing them trapped because at one time you were in that place. You know, it's like to be there.

That's exactly right, which, you know, motivates ministry. One of the thoughts I put before the brothers, I will have to admit, they did laugh out loud Sunday morning. I was talking about, you know, when you're younger, And you pull these stunts, and it's your sack, sack, sack, sack, sack, let's get it on. Let's go, go, go, go, go.

I said, you know, by the time you get about May 74, I said, you're doing things like this. Okay, well, honey, what about sex or popcorn? I said it many times now, many, many, many times, I'm saying. Popcorn's winning? Let's go with the popcorn. I said, you will reach a point to when sex becomes less and less. I said, I'm just preparing some of you young books to think, I don't know what I'm going to do with myself. I said, trust me when I tell you, there will come a time when you will view sex totally differently than you do now.

It's not the end of all things and the greatest thing you can participate in. I said, you'll find that out the further you go. I remember a fail-sale one time. Nobody's ever died from a lack of sex. Yeah. It's not life-threatening, which you hear something like that, and you're like, oh, wow. Because in your, I mean, a lot of it is in your mind. I mean, I'm from a totally different perspective, which is I wasn't really exposed.

I remember when being a kid, I'd see the magazines, but I just thought, that's not real. I mean, I don't know why I thought that, but I thought they're just trying to make money. I mean, I'd look at it and think, huh, this can't be real. And so. And you were right. It really is not real. And so even. It's a complete mirage.

But you know, sex so much in your mind, the excitement, I mean, a lot of it is we have a natural, you know, attraction. And it's like if you see something graphic, you know it's wrong. But if it's like flirtatious and it's just right on the line of it, you know, in your mind, I think that's why it's so easy to have a fair. And it's the idea of it that's actually greater than the payoff. you know, when you were saying, what is the payoff of it? Jay said his buddies were telling him, Jace, I mean, if you don't have sex with this girl, you're dating. Because Jace told him, said, no, no sex, I'm waiting until I get married.

And his buddies were saying, you're not going to know what to do, where to start. And Jace's answer was, I'll figure it out. So Jay said, Dad, the first hour on our honeymoon, it was basically a elongated study of the human anatomy. And then he ended up He said, I ended up with three kids. I figured it out. But it was, you know, I thought.

But they don't believe, Jace, when Jay says, no, I waited until I was married. And a lot of his buddies said, oh, don't be telling me that stuff because it's so rare now. I mean, I did things that were wrong. I'll tell people that. But, you know, I didn't come close to having sex because we had just, you know, in my mind, though,

I was like, man, I'm having all these thoughts. And I really believe some of it's natural. You're trying to stay pure. God knows my heart. I'm trying. We're praying. I'm apologizing. I even shed some tears one time because I was like, I just can't.

I mean, we were so close to the finish line. Just the stress of it all was just getting to me. But it comes back down to whether you're going to trust God. I mean, I was fortunate enough to hear that speech. Even though it was barbaric, there was communication. And I equated that that, that, That's a wrong place to go. I don't want to get some disease.

I mean, it was kind of scared me. And even though I was pretty young. You didn't want your genitals rotting off? Yeah, I didn't want the genitals rotting off. And so look, what would happen is when I would date, if I sensed any kind of evil connotation, I withdrew. You know, I told you, a couple of girls I pursued based on the way they look. You know, when I heard them drop a elf bomb in the first.

two sentences, I'm like, I'm out. There's probably a sexually transmitted disease there. That was my thinking, because I thought I don't want anything to do it. I was a past offender warning my children because I didn't take that advice to stay pure. See what I'm saying? So I saw where that led. So I was trying to tell them, look down the same road. Don't go down that road. Let's take one last break. Well, and then I think Lisa and I are living proof that once Jesus enters the picture for you, which is the best route to go, that it can change your behavior

because we have been sexually active. As dad talked about in the last podcast, a guy got after me with a crowbar in New Orleans brought me to my senses, you know, like the prodigal son. Lisa, when I came back, we started dating again, but I told her,

I was like, I'm changed. I'm not drinking anymore, no more drugs, and no sex until I get married. So I just made my mind up. Now, in Christ, I could do that. You know, and it wasn't easy because we had been together already. Yeah, to me, that's way harder than what I, people put me on a pedestal, and I'm like,

I didn't really know what I was missing. Now, you try to start from now? I'm going to need some counseling. So what happened was getting married in a year, and then it was nine months, and then it was six months, because, you know, my biology was taking over my theology. You know what I'm saying? The countdown started. The countdown started, so we were like that, so finally with one,

Friday night, I just said, you know what? Let's get married next Friday. You ready? And she's like, I'm ready, you know, which was a shock to the system and the family. And dad was like, yeah, that's right. Because I was like, I don't want, it wasn't just so we wouldn't have sex. I was just like, I decided I want to spend the rest of my life with you. And so I just soon the rest of my life start next week.

And so really it was that. So I think Jesus is the one that did for us. I want to ask this, we're almost out of time, but I want to ask this question about this. I told you about this thing I found. Now, the percentage of people not getting married is huge now. I mean, some of the numbers they have put in here. I mean, one time it was just a low percentage 50 or 60 years ago. Now you're talking about 40% of people who are under the age of 40 aren't married.

And yet they're still having children, obviously. There's still people having sex. All right is going on. So what do you think that is? I mean, what is this huge trend of people not wanting to have a traditional family anymore? Is this culture or you think there's something? something else is driving. I think there are multiple factors in there.

We were talking earlier before the podcast started, I had grown up seeing terrible marriage, why would I want to have one of those? So just marriage turned off in general. Hey, if we can live together and have sex, who needs to get married? Yeah, right. Because in our culture, it's just a piece of paper.

It's just a law. Who needs that? I don't know what else. And not reading these scriptures. They're useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. So you'll be thoroughly equipped for every good work. They don't view these scriptures as something that you need to feed on. But marriage is hard.

You just think it from a worldly perspective, if you can have the sex and not the responsibility, I could see how that would catch on with people who don't have integrity or responsibility or realize the consequences for kids growing up without a father or two parents. I mean, that's what I think.

Well, my point is, it seems to me, and just from my observation, the further we move away from traditional marriage, whether you put it in a religious bubble or not, the more our culture seems to be breaking down, in a terrible way.

The Apostle Paul had a good point from the Roman Empire was fixed to start persecuting the church. Those who marry will face many troubles in this life and I want to spare you this. Well, if you look at it, he said, it's like you said,

it's not a cakewalk. It says you will face many troubles and everyone who's married saying, boy, I tell you what, that's good insight there into my situation. I ran into a lot of trouble. I've got a generation that just avoids a commitment, period. I mean, they don't want to commit to, they'll be at somebody's house on Friday night.

It's a, I'll let you know, maybe I'll be there, maybe I won't. So why in the world would I commit the rest of my life to one person? Or if relationships are just kind of temporary anyway, you know, if I grew up, believe in relationships don't last. Well, I'm in, we're together at the moment, but I may find somebody better next month. So, well, and let's face it, though, we know that won't work because you're still going to, to have jealousy. I mean, even people who don't know anything about God, we're living together, you bring, all of a sudden, he goes and starts sleeping with the neighbor's wife. There's going to be strife and conflict. I mean, the dad you came from back there when you were younger,

you looked up one day, he's gone, then a month goes by, two months, three months, there's some other guy. He comes in there. Well, he's your dad for a while, whether he married or just was there. well he's gone then you look up and dad number three is there and he's mean as a junkyard dog I can see how a 10 12 15 year old would say man well you know it's affect them and it's basically you know what I'm saying it's Russian roulette because somewhere along the line somebody's going to get abused physically sexually some way I mean it's it's going to keep happening and then you've got these large swaths of people and whole cultures that don't even even know who anybody's dad is.

I mean, you're talking about 70% in some of those communities. No idea who his dad is, who his dad is. We're all centers and all of us together. All I know to do is preach the good news to say, look. That's what I was wondering. I mean, what do you say the solution? I mean, one thing y'all are doing is having these difficult conversations in churches, which is awesome.

And we're all united in trying to share Jesus, because ultimately, if you're married to Jesus, I think the more unselfish you've become, because when you think about why people have affairs and even on the Internet, it's all self. It's at James 316. For where you have envy and self's ambition, there you find disorder in every evil practice. Because you're basically not thinking about, oh, how can I please my wife? You're like, oh, this thing here is doing this for free. One of the comments I made out the Sunday morning, I said, look, I know some of you thinking, well, I mean, you know, I don't know what to do with myself. I'm all sexually charged up. I said, look, marry you someone of the opposite sex and get after it. Go for it.

I said, don't hold anything back. I said, marry you one and go ahead and to get it on. I said, it's not that hard to say, how do I do this right? Marry somebody of the opposite sex and have at it. I said, you're going to find out in about a week. You're going to say, say, oh, I'm not as fired up as I was. I said, that's the way it works. First, they're all sexed out, but say, all you want, all the time. What's the hole up? Now, the day eight, you're pretty well winding down to get charred back up.

I said, was it all worth it to lose you, so? Just get married, and you'll find out that it's not the controlling act in your life. That's the Phil Robertson, Bob Newhart, approach. So Ultimate Escape.org. Yeah, so if any of you guys listening would like to learn more about what Steve and Holly do, check out their website. Maybe something that can help because they do like us. They travel to places. We really appreciate what y'all do.

Absolutely. And then everything you do for us locally as well. So that's a great blessing. Remind, for you sign off, unfiltered. Dad and I are going to be doing a talk shop live. that's coming up on what day it is called Thursday, October 15th, I think at 5 o'clock. And so you get a chance to win one of these cool shirts. I ride with King Jesus as well as a book.

So be sure and check that out as well. And thanks for listening to Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazestivie.com slash unashamed.