Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 172 | Phil and Jase Debate Why We Do Good, Free Will, and the Role of the Holy Spirit

Episode Date: November 1, 2020

This is one Bible study you don't want to miss. Phil, Jase, and Zach wade deep into what role human beings play when we do good and what role the Holy Spirit plays. They also discuss how the Spirit transforms your heart over time, what sin really is, and how faith works. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Well, Jason's going to get coffee. Before Jesus came to the earth? Yeah. All have turned away. There's no one righteous, not even one. There's no one to understand. There's no one who sees God. Watch. They've all turned away. This is a world without Jesus. Hold on. Jason's back. I think that was going to be one of our more bizarre openings.

This is a world without Jesus. They've all turned away and they've all together become with us. There is no one who does good. Not now. Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Pre-Jesus. Pre-Jesus. An argument has developed over, I think we all agree.

You're saying you can't be good under the law and you can't be good with Jesus either. You're saying it's both ways. Can't be good. Exactly. Jesus didn't have any effect. I like how you characterize it. I agree 100%. Right.

Here's, I'll give you four words just for the audience. And this, this to me is how you. learn because we both agree that in Jesus is where salvation occurs, right? That's correct. So we're good. And we love each other. So everybody's... We're all family.

We're all touchy-feely today. However, the wording is we, Zach and I are on one side and you're on the other. I have four words, four words, to... the foundation of my argument. And it comes from a letter written to the Galatians who thought, in synopsis form here, how will I say this, who thought that they needed salvation in Jesus

plus something that they could do. Now, in this case, it was circumcision, but to me it could be anything. And there was a statement made, and I'm getting to the four words, in Galatians 220, Paul said, I have been crucified with Christ, and here are the four words right after and, and I no longer live.

So my point is, you can't do good if you no longer live. You say, well, how can that be? Because of the next phrase, but Christ lives in me. So that's my whole point. You can't say, you say, well, how come in 1st John where he says, those who do good, well, I'm not sure it is. But I'm saying, how can you do good if you no longer live? Well, 1st John says there's two kinds of people.

Those who do good and those do evil will do good. Well, I can't do good. So I realize that it's no longer I who do it. Where's that verse at? But Christ who lives in me. Yeah. The life I live in the body, I live by faith and the Son of God who love me. Where's that verse that says that?

It's I who no longer do it. I have been crucified Christ. Been crucified of Christ, I no longer live. That's a different verse. Maybe is that Colossians 3? Let me see. Maybe it's Roman 7. Yeah, I think it's in Romans.

Let me look. Yeah. seven says 18 says yeah this is this is another one no yeah 17 17 17 as it is no longer i myself who do it but it is sin living in me i know that nothing good lives in me this is paul with jesus yeah right that is in my sinful nature for i have the desire to do what is good but i cannot carry it out for what i do is not the good I want to do, but the evil I do, I do not want to do. This I keep on doing. Well, this is post-Jesus.

So why is he wrestling, saying why? And he's going to ask a question, who's going to deliver me from this body of death? Because he just explained to you. Well, once Jesus comes in, you say, can you start doing good then? Sure. Yeah, but he had. But he's in Jesus. I think that he, what he's actually getting up to.

I think it's semantics. Well, no, because he's moving into Romans 8, and Romans 8 is Life by the Spirit, which is how we get into this conversation last time on John 15. And I think there is a, this is a, I had a hard time with this up until about 12 years ago, because what I kept hearing was do better and be better. And I tried it, and I tried it and I tried it, but yet I thought like Paul feels here, I felt, man, what a wretched man, man, am I. And every time I tried to do good, evil was right there. And I just felt it. I felt like I couldn't bootstrap myself up. And it's because we grew up in a faith tradition that really didn't have a good doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

We didn't talk about the Holy Spirit. Yeah, we really, if we did, it was what we were told. He speaks through the written word only. What about the inner conviction in my heart that the Spirit is my counselor, my helper, who's guiding me into all truth? So going back to the do good, I think the scripture tells us, to our behavior matters, but the only way, it's less about behavior, it's less about works, and it's more about what do you desire, what do you want?

Because you're going to do what you want most. And I think what the spirit is giving us, those who submit to the spirit, the spirit is giving us a revelation of the beauty and the wonder of God so that over time my desires can be transformed. You talked about, Phil, and you were back in your sex drugs and rock and roll days, Like, there was a time period, you know, because I interviewed you for a project working on, and when I heard some of the things you were into, I was like, man, there was a time period. What, if I came up to you with a big fat joint or a scantily plaid dress woman or a bottle of whiskey, you would have been tempted to partake in that.

But if I came to you now. That's my point. But now you would not be tempted because the desires of your heart have been transformed over the last 45 years by the spirit, because he's revealing to us reality. And it's not right and wrong. The spirit's not saying that's right. One of the things he enables you to do, an elder must love what is good. He's got a desire.

Teach the older women to teach what is good. Get the young men set them an example by doing what is good. But who is doing it? Hey, it's not saving you. It's not, you already saved. You're not earning it. It's a free gift. So how do you operate?

Well, he purified for himself a people who are his very own. And you know what they're eager to do? He purified a people that are his own. And guess what they're eager to do, according to pa's the paupac. Do good. Yeah. Because of what reason? What's the sort?

So if I do something good, look. Because your sins have been removed. He's there to mediate for you when you do bad. Who gets the good? Well, hold on. Let me clarify this. yesterday. You can't be good.

We're in a sorry stage here. We are. So we ended yesterday's podcast. And Phil said, well, your Aunt Kay said you have requested a certain soup that she makes. What do y'all call that? Ribby soup. It's got steak in it. Oh, that's good.

Oh, it's the best. Phenomenal. I was eager, very eager to get to your house and get that hot water cornbread and that soup. You know why? Because it tastes good. and I knew that tasted good. So if I'm going to have an eagerness to do good, it's only going to be because I've tasted

and seen that the Lord is good. It's not an oblong. So how are you two going out and y'all are going to remind the people? Because the apostle Paul Toil say, you've got to remind the people. I'm just reminding y'all today because you need it too. Remind the people to be subject to rulers,

whether they're communist or whatever. Be subject to them. Monarchs, be subject to them. They didn't have a constitutional republic, but he reminded them, look, to be subject to rulers and authorities, because a lot of people now have turned against the authorities and the rulers, and it's really hurting our country. To be obedient. Are you ready? To be ready to do whatever is good.

To slander no one, to be at peaceable, be considerate, show true humility to all men. That's that one. I'm just giving you one after other eight times in a book that's got three chapters. Titus, make sure you stress these things. Y'all are saying, don't stress it to be good. Don't stress that. Stress these things so that those who have trusted to God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good.

These things are excellent. Y'all are saying, well, you can't be good. It doesn't help me any. You're like, it helps me a lot. So when I do something good, I say, well, that must have been the Holy Spirit. That must have been Jesus because it wasn't me. That's what I say every guy. It was you.

Well, you participated. I no longer lived. It was the changed. That's right. That guy's gone. He was no good. How could I do good? That one you did away with?

He was no good. I'm gone. This is not me. It's an appearance of me. Our people must learn to devote themselves to do them what's good. Y'all say, oh, no, no way. Our people don't need to devote themselves to doing good. I'm like, I wonder why in order that, they may provide for daily necessities and not live unproductive lives.

Y'all have said, oh, no. Here's what I would do. Here's what I would do. If you said, all right, so you came to me and you said, you know, pick any dead person. And you say, that guy is really doing good. And I'm like, he's not here anymore. You're like, no, I'm telling you, this guy, just pick a dead person. He's doing Elvis.

Boy, he's doing phenomenal, right? People are still buying his letters, I mean, his songs, and, you know, they're crying over his letter. And so what I would do if you believe that, I'd figure out wherever he's buried, and I take you there, and I was like, he ain't there.

That may be the spirit, the legacy. You know, he's in our memories. He's dead. So I read two verses that says, I no longer live, I've been crucified. I am no longer. I've been, there's a replacement that it's happened. The dead man.

He's buried. You're dead in your sins, Jace. And I buried him. He didn't come back. That one is gone. He gone. But now we have a new one. The other one was bad.

The new one is the Holy Spirit of God. Christ lives in me. So. That's why you can be good. No, he just does it. That's why I hang out in the book of John. I read the red letters because I'm like, this is who he is. Now, he happens to be inside of him, and I know it's weird, the semantics of it. But whenever I think I do good, then all of a sudden there's a thing called pride.

There's things, temptation starts coming with success that all of a sudden I think I'm doing good. And I'm like, boy, I had a really good day today. And then what happens the next day? Well, since I thought I was good, I got to a place to where I'm thinking I can make these decisions. And, well, you know it if I go down that trail, then I'm doing bad again. Let's take a break. You know, we never talk about merch here on the Unashamed podcast, but we do have merchandise for all of you guys out there that are fans of us, what we're doing here. In fact, there's a Facebook channel or Facebook page that somebody started called Unashamed Nation.

And it's got, yeah, it's got a lot of people on it. So, so kudos to you guys out there, although... I didn't know what you meant by merch. I thought I was thinking perch, but... Merch, merchandise. We've got, yeah, we've got the official unashamed mugs here that you can get. Got Phil Spett. We didn't get one of your face.

When did they start calling that merch? It's kind of an industry term, I think. Oh, I didn't know it. Had you had ever heard that one? Merch. I heard a perch. We got merch. I heard somebody said that on Instagram.

Oh, there's a lot of mosaic. I ain't ever heard. So we got T-shirts, we've got a lot of good stuff. So go to Unashamedmerch.com. That's where I got it right there. I think I would just feel weird if I said, hey, I bought some merch today. Yeah, but if you're promoting it at a,

like what we're doing here, we're saying we have, I guess it could be. I'm for the promotion. Yeah. I'm just not sure about the word. Well, it's good for the website. Unashamedmerch.com. Get your beard mug, hats, shirts, sweatshirts, and also sign up for our newsletter.

Have you ever heard that? term merch? Oh, yeah. Maybe I need to get out more. I think that's, well, that's, or on the flip side of that, the worst, the, the, the, the, the, worse is not that you get arrogant. What about when you do fall and you're not doing good as a believer? I mean, I still sin.

I think that's the easy way in the argument, which I agree. I mean, that's where we went to at first, which spawned the argument, because it's like, well, even if you went a week without sending, at some point, you're going to see it. And James says, what happens? So what happened? And what does James say? What happened? Of course.

To me, what happened is you quit acknowledging that where the true good source was. You started thinking that you could pull it off. Or this, I see it as a conduit that the Holy Spirit is God, and he's in us. So there's a direct conduit to reveal reality to us. I think, and this is how I define sin when I share with people, is sin is less about an arbitrary violation of an arbitrary commandment of God, and more about rejecting a revelation of life from God. That's what sin is.

It's not that, oh, God gave me this list of rules. Follow this list, prove your loyalty to me, and then if you can do good enough, then I'll let you in because you proved that you're loyal. It's not that. I'm giving you the revelation of life. Life is flowing from me into you. Now, sin is just when we say,

I think you're lying to me, God. I think you're holding out on me. And so if we can frame it up that way, then we could frame faith up as believing in the revelation of God and receiving life. And so sin always leads to death because you're rejecting who God is. That's what sin is. That's why the unforgivable sin is what? The blasphying the Holy Spirit.

Why? Because the Holy Spirit is the member of the Trinity who is delivering truth to the believer. It's that thing in John 16 you read about the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. And if I say no to you, then there's no other way I'm going to ever receive truth if I reject the spirit. And so that's why it leads to life. And where this has been very impactful in my understanding of my walk with the Lord and a lot of the young college students that we've ministered to over the years, is that I quit teaching this message. I quit teaching, come to Jesus and don't do the bad stuff.

You know, the Holy Spirit is not telling you that that's wrong or that's right. What the Holy Spirit is telling you is that's not true. That's a lie. Distinguished good from evil. Hebrew is five that you read. Now, we do participate in it to Phil's point in that I'm receiving revelation from God, so I have a responsibility in that I can say, I don't believe you, God. But any good work is only happening because I'm believing what God's telling me,

And then I'm saying, I'm going to go with God because I actually believe that he's telling me the truth here. That's why they sinned in the Garden of Eden, right? Why did they sin? They didn't believe God. They thought he was holding out on them. But I'm not going to be known for good. That's what you're saying?

I'll be known for them. The rest of my life. I think the Holy Spirit will be known for good. And they'll see me. So on your gravestone, you said, there's no way. Don't put on there. This was a good man.

No, I don't put that on that. But he loved Jesus. and saved by faith. He's a bad man. He said he's a bad man. He's a bad man. He's a bad man. He's a bad man.

Saved by the blood of Jesus. That makes perfect sense. I agree. The grace of God that brings salvation, let's just see how good comes in here, has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-control, upright, and godly lives in this president.

I'm entitled to chapter two. While we wait for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. He gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself, a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These then are the things you should teach. That's what I'm teaching, y'all, who are saying, no. Well, encourage and rebuke with all authority.

Don't let anyone despise you. Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, to show their true humility toward all men. At one time, past life now, no Holy Spirit. We too were foolish. I was there. Disobedient. I was there. Deceived, I was there. Enslaved by all kinds of passions. I was there. And pleasures. I was there. We lived in malice. I live there. We lived in envy, being hated, hating one another. But when's the big turnaround? Right here. This is the turnaround. When the kindness of love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us.

Not because of righteous things we had done. We were up to no good, but because of his mercy. He saves us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit whom we poured out on us generally through Jesus Christ our Savior. so that you have God's spirit in you now, you've repented, by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying, I want you to stress these things so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent.

They're profitable. for everyone. And y'all say? Well, it's because when you said they should devote themselves to do what is good, when he said the other phrase about not because of righteous things, where's that at? Verse five.

Y'all was saying it's because you were sinful. But you said you were up to no good, but he didn't say that. He said not because of righteous things you did. He wasn't talking about being up to no good. He was saying the righteous things that you can do is not enough. The unrighteous things were disobedient, deceived by all kinds of passions and pleasure. We lived in malice, envy, hating, the opposite of good and love of God.

But here comes Jesus. Here comes the Holy Spirit. People be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. Y'all are saying, you can't be good, therefore I'm not going to be careful to be No, I think, do good. No, what worse. But he said that. He said not because of righteous things.

Because of what the Holy Spirit. You did. Vote themselves to doing what is good. Yeah, but you got to go at verse five. These things are excellent and profitable. Well, what does he, what did he mean? Well, since you can't be good, why even bring that into the equation? Why would Titus be told?

But he brought it in in verse five. He did. I didn't. He said, he saved us. And then he makes a statement. Not because. of righteous things we had done. So your sins are forgiven.

You're in Jesus. You're under grace. So what's next? You say, just do good. Yeah, but he's talking about... Do what you never did before. Yeah, but that's going to happen

through the power of the renewing, of the regeneration, and renewing by the Holy Spirit. That's correct. Whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, so that being justified by His grace, we would be made errors according to the hope of eternal life.

And so the goodness that we're called to, it's not that we're manufacturing good works. It's that we are living under the revelation of the Holy Spirit who is renewing our mind. You're good, but it doesn't earn you anything. I guess I'm focusing on the rebirth and the renewal of the Holy Spirit. Once that death occurred. Once the death occurred... Which death are you talking about?

Our death. Yeah. The old man. The old man died. Yep. What I'm saying is, now you're on it. You got it there. I mean, Phil, I think we 100% agree with that.

But once you die, you have to be different in some way. To then, to me to say, well, now you can do good. Well, I couldn't do it the first time. That got me in trouble. I tried. And even though the righteous things I did, people do, righteous things. He just said it. But that's not going to save you. That's correct. Because this person has to be replaced. You're doing good because you are saved. I'm doing good because I'm saved and I'm being

renewed by the Holy Spirit. You correct. The Holy Spirit's getting the credit. No problem with me there. But you want to do good. I mean, I think that's what Paul's getting at. Well, I want to do good because the Holy Spirit is enabling me to do good. I don't think I would have the idea without the Holy Spirit. You can't be good without God. You're correct. But there's a phrase. You're proving my point. There's a phrase in the book of Romans that the last and, the first and last paragraph,

that Paul is summing up this entire argument in Romans, in my opinion. And he says that his role was to call the Gentiles to the obedience of faith. And I think the point that I'm getting out here is that we are called to obey. We're called to do good works. but it's not just obedience that God is after. The only kind of obedience that God will accept is the one that is born out of faith, not of works. That's the whole point of the book of Romans.

So what's the point? That I'm obeying God not because I'm earning favor with him. I'm obeying God because I actually trust him and believe that he has my best interest in mind. And that's why I could have true victory over sin, not because I'm willing it away, and somehow I'm disciplined enough to beat it. It's that I'm having a transnational,

a renewal of my mind. There's a renewing that's happening by the Holy Spirit's revelation. Does that make sense? It does. I think, let me try it from this angle. Why are you working on that? Because I'm going to go to your verse.

You know what's happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee, after the baptism, the John priest? Check this out. This is Romans 10. I mean, Acts 10. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power,

what about this verse? And how he went around doing good and heeding all those who were under the power of the devil because God was with him. So y'all are saying, well, he's in our example. You say, well, what is the example? You go around and you do good and you point people to Jesus

because they're under the power of the devil. Because if you go around and you're doing bad, saying, I can't be good. you said, Peter would say, what are you talking about? Jesus went around doing good. And y'all are saying, we can't be good. You can't be good. You know there's a misunderstanding.

I feel like we've gone off road. We're in a cornfield after a rainy day. We went around doing good. And y'all are like, we can't be good. I feel like we're looking for a lost chain somewhere without a metal detector. We have, there's a semantic breakdown here. Before you break it down, let's take a call. I'm glad our audience got a wint, we've got an eye full of this.

Y'all don't try to be good because it ain't going to happen. I'm saying, that's why you need Jesus. All right, I'm going to try this from your original verse that started. One quick break. I'm going to try this from where this all got started. You read 1st John 310, which says, this is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are. Yep.

Anyone who does not do what is right, is not a child of God, nor is anyone who does not. love his brother. Now let me make the argument. In the previous verse, in verse 9, there's a statement. Granted, you have to know the whole letter from 1 John 1, 1st, John 5 to kind of get the gist of it. But I want to read this verse and present a question. The previous verse says, this is 1 John 3.9. no one who is born of God will continue to sin. As a pattern. No, now you're adding that because it doesn't make sense if you don't add as a pattern. And you know Jesus is there to mediate for you just got through Telly in chapter one.

I agree. That he's there if you confess your sins. I agree. But what I, just for the argument's sake, let's just leave out the as a pattern for right now. And just, because I don't think you're understanding what we're saying. But if you kind of look at this first without adding as a pattern, because we immediately have to add that because we're like, well, because why? Because we know we sin.

Because we sin. Correct. And no one would be born in a side. And that notifies you ever doing anything good, the rest of your life. So hang on. No good for y'all. So wait a minute. We might have a revelation here.

But if you're looking at what we're saying, it actually would make sense because no one born who is born of God will continue to sin that guy's dead that's what I'm saying I'm not uncomfortable with that phrase because I'm not going to continue to sin

because the guy you're looking at he's gone he died that's why when you tie that in with Galatians 220 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live I'm not going to continue to sin. And I no longer can do what's good. Well, I don't, I don't, what's that going to do you think?

I'm just saying this verse says no one who is born of God will continue to sin. It makes no sense unless we either add as a pattern. Well, yeah, because. Or, but I'm saying if you were gone, I didn't even finish my thought. Then he says, now here's, here's, this next phrase is what I've, trying to get to because so we out the part we added saying it's not a pattern he just said he's not going to continue to sin then he gives you the reason because god's seed remains in him well what's that holy spirit imperishable imperishable seed where you're at first john three nine

just want to make sure that we're on the same page yep god's seed remains in him would you've agree? Yes. He cannot go on sinning. So why will be agree with that and say, well, he can't go on doing good either? It's the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit stopping the sin. It's the Holy Spirit getting the credit for righteousness.

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power and how he went around doing good and heating all those who were under the power of the devil because God was with him. Yeah, but Jesus could do. good. Yeah, but we're not even negate, I don't think either one of us are negating good works. We're just saying that good works are a reflection of that God is in you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be, you wouldn't be doing those things. Well, I, yeah, look, not only that in Ephesians 2, he says, he created us to do good works. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying how we got to that point. It says it's by grace. You've been saved. it is not from yourselves.

That is correct. Which would go into what I'm saying. It is the gift of God. That is correct. And Romans 9 hits this too, after he's talking about kind of this idea of Gentiles versus Jewish people and who's in, who's out. In verse 30, he says, what shall we say then that Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness, which is by faith, but Israel pursuing a law of righteousness did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. And they stumbled over the stone just as it is written, talking about Jesus.

So we're not negating, I'm not negating at least, the pursuit of good works and the pursuit of righteousness. I think it's how are you pursuing it? And if you're pursuing it by works, that's what Israel did. And Paul's point in Romans 9 is, that's why they're out. I'm not going around doing good to be saved. I'm going around doing good. Because I am saved. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm just saying I'm doing good because it's the Holy Spirit. It's no longer me. But what do you say that? What do you mean? When you say because it's, what does that mean? Very hard to explain that because I spiritually died. What I, I, for, you know, my first 14 years on the earth, even though I was safe as a kid,

I based my how I felt about myself on my decision making and my performance it was me I thought I want to do better so guess what I'd do better I want to do good I'll do good

well then I was introduced to Jesus and I think the hardest thing for me to ever understand is that how am I going to go die and still be alive that was very hard for me to get a grip on. How am I going to participate

in the death-bound resurrection of Jesus in, you know, Roman 6? I die. I'm buried and I'm going to come back. And then when I started reading these verses about you died and your life is now hidden in Christ in Colossan 3, I'm like,

what does that mean? I die. I've been crucified with Christ. So it just started hitting me that why Why am I trying to figure out how to go about doing good when I have the Holy Spirit of God? That's what he specializes in. Yeah, but I know, but when we say that, and I think this maybe where Phil is pushing back on us,

is that it sounds like you're saying, I'm not saying that you're saying this, it sounds like you're saying that the Holy Spirit is making you do good things, and that you have no say and whatsoever, and he's just doing, is that what you're saying? Pretty much. See, I don't agree with that. I would say it's with groans

that I cannot understand. And this is a huge theological debate going on, but I think if we don't have a biblical understanding, I'm not saying you don't have a biblical understanding of revelation, but I think that we have to bring into the discussion revelation that God speaks. But what I'm saying, is how are you being motivated?

Now, you know as well as anybody else. How much do you think in a week's time that I study the Bible? At least 15 or 20 minutes. Hours and hours and hours. So you know I do that. So my point is that argument will work if I wasn't doing that. So you said, well, what is your point? My point is I'm being motivated by the Holy Spirit of God to do that.

And you say, well, how can you explain that? I can't. It's kind of like the win in John 3. Why do I do good things? I'm just convinced to this. There is nothing good that lives in me. When I have God's spirit, it's in control of my life. I'm studying because what do they do at church?

They tell you to study, pray, and do good. and a lot of people are like so you share Jesus because you say he's the image of God well then they say well you got to surrender you got to die well you go through that process then you they said well now you have the Holy Spirit

well you may not have felt it but then the more you read you understand well if there's nothing good living in me and I have the Jesus living in me through his spirit I know he's good let's take a quick break so if something good happens

all I'm saying is when something good happens, whether it's me reading my Bible, whether it's me praying, whether it's me praying, or whether it's me not sinning. Like you were talking about, I'm saying I give the credit to the Holy Spirit of God, even though I don't know exactly how that went down. Well, I think, what does faith come from? Hearing the message. Hearing the word. So Jesus, or the Spirit, speaks to us, but we have to hear it, right?

and then we have to say, I believe you. So I don't get credit for believing what he tells me. It's still his originate with him. I said the same thing until I read a verse that said God gives us faith. And then I changed my approach on that. I'll find it. I'll look it up while you're finishing point. Are you talking about the one that says each one should act in accordance

with the measure of faith that God has given to him or assigned him? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a little bit out of context. So you see the homeless, and we reach out to them and we feed them. And you say, why do you do that? You're saved? Sure. You say, are you helping the homeless?

Is that going to help you? No, it's going to help them. I'm doing a good deed. We're feeding them. They might want a meal. They might not. So we have a lot of homeless people. We've converted them.

A lot of them. We've converted them. and Mr. Kay said, how do y'all know? How do you all? What do you know when I'm giving all these food cards? So they can go buy the restaurants and get them some food.

They can't like if you give money, a lot of them, you know, they get back on the wine, the bottle, and all that. So she gives them food cards. She said, what does this tell all y'all when we're giving to these food cards? And they all say, you love us. You love us.

That's why you're doing it. We're like, yep. See, we're loving them, and we do it a good deed for them. We don't have to for our salvation. We're saved. We have God's spirit in us. We go around and we look for ways to do good.

Look, anyone, here's James, so y'all are the scholars. I'm not. As it's anyone then who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it sins. You look for ways to do good. It's not for your benefit. It's for theirs, the people you reach out to. I just gave you the homeless is one example. They can be convicts, the rehabbers,

and all of the people we deal with all the time. We reach out to them. We have a meal. We sit around and we practice hospitality, and we go around doing good, and we're preaching the gospel. I'm just saying, y'all can't see that the spirit in us. I would have never done that before I ran up. upon Jesus. Because I'm

saved, because I have God's spirit in me, I'm looking around looking for ways to do good to my neighbor. Okay, so I found the verse. So it says, I urge you brothers, in view of God's mercy to offer your bodies of living sacrifices.

Here we're back on dying. Holy and pleasing God's spiritual acts worship. Don't conform any long to the pattern of the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. We're into this renewal, we know where that comes from, the Holy Spirit, then you'll know what God's will is. Why? Because you have His spirit inside of you. For by the grace giving me, I say to every one of you, do not think of yourself more highly than you ought. Yep. But rather think of yourselves with sober

judgment in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. which this Romans 12, 3 is my argument. He gave me mercy, he gave me grace, he gave me the Holy Spirit. He's given me the measure of faith, the capacity, because I believe when Jesus said, I'll be lifted up,

I'll draw all men to myself. He gave me that draw, because in essence, he was pursuing me instead of me pursuing him. Well, sure. Once I acknowledge, that, then it became less about me and more about him. Did you have a responsibility in that?

Did you do anything? The one responsibility is when I was introduced to Jesus, there was a decision. Call it belief. But I'm going to give him the credit for calling me. Even the further I go along, I'm giving him any question about anything good. Even me responding and following my name. knees. I'm going to lean toward giving him the credit because I believe that verse that says, nothing good lives in me. I believe that. You get no credit. Not only that, not only that while he's

on that point. No one, Mark 1018, no one is good except God alone. Knowing that you say, well, thank you. Yeah. So you say, Jesus went around doing good and heating all those who are the power of the devil. He said, he's good through and through. So now that we are saved and we have God's spirit, we've replaced bad behavior, bad deeds, evil deeds. We've replaced that with good deeds, with goodness. But why? It's just comes supernaturally. We reach out to our, it's for someone else's benefit, every bit of it, every bit of doing good. It's for someone else. It's not for your own. Jesus has paid your price I mean we all are sinners

once your sins are gone and God's spirit you look for ways to do good you go around doing good and you point them to Jesus which is exactly what he was doing he went around doing good and people are like whoa and he freed those who were in the power of the devil that is an interesting point why do you think Jesus said

when the guy said why do you call me I mean when he said good teacher and he said good teacher and he why are you coming good? No one's good, but God alone. Yeah. Because he was good. Yeah.

So why do you think he said that? Well, hold on. I'll tell you after this. He's, I feel like you after this. Give you a profound question. My short answer was, he's the model.

He's the model. I feel like you're a guy. He's with me now. I don't know. But you are, I read Romans 10 to you. you and you said you used to agree with Romans 10 until you read Romans 12, which is interesting because I don't think that Romans 12 negates Romans 10. Romans 10 still stands.

I think you're mischaracterizing what I said. Well, you said I quoted Romans 10 that faith originates with God, and you said, I used to believe that until I read this. No, I still do, but I think it works together is all I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Well, I think we agree. I don't see any disagreement with what you're saying. No, but here's what, here's my point, though.

Let me read to you, First Corinthians, the role of the Holy Spirit. That's my concern at all this, which is where it started, John 15. And before you read it, look, I'm coming at it from a personal level. I will agree with this, because my biggest weakness, just as an individual, is being outspoken to people in an awkward situation. You know, when I was a kid, I was terrified. I've shared that before, but I was just talking about socially awkward. So look, the only way that I have convinced myself to share Jesus with people in earshot is that I'm dead.

Yeah, no, I like what you're saying. I agree with you. You know what? Because if I think about it for a second, when I get up and speak in front of thousands of people, and there's times every once in a while that I'm, I'm literally terrified. Yeah. And I think, oh, I'm dead. This is the Holy Spirit.

And I just on a habitual basis was given, because it's a good thing. deed. Would you agree? I would agree. Okay, so that's where I came from. So then I realized, you know what, it's not that it's just faith comes through hearing the message. I got to get this presentation out. I believe two

things. God has brought them and that he just did something supernatural with me through the Holy Spirit and he's going to speak. So that's why I used to would always have to have notes and all this. And now, you know what? I study. I prepare.

but I don't have to have anything written down because I'm just trying to give them Jesus. And I'm comfortable with that now. I agree with what you're saying. I think what feels probably uncomfortable with, which I kind of am too, is I don't want to negate man's responsibility, but also at the same time on the flip side of that,

then you're like, well, are you saying it's about what man does? I'm like, no. So I've tried to reconcile this. I think obviously it's been a debate for the last since the Reformation movement. Zach, I agree. I'm uncomfortable when somebody's preaching or something, and they say, the moment they say, you know, God told me, I'm like, uh-oh.

Because I'm like, if he told you something that I can't read in here, I'm probably going to deny the power of what he told you. Well, but, but, yes, but I'm even not, I'm more speaking towards. I know. Yeah. All I'm saying is we agree. There is, there's a. problem there when you're just a piece of clay with a no decision-making process. I get all that.

All I was saying is I'm going to lean toward God did it. God did do it. There's not leaning towards it. Whatever it is. Yeah, he did it, but he did it because he initiates every bit of life that could ever be attained or experienced. It's all flowing from God. Listen to this. I love that. We talk about the role of the Holy Spirit, and this is in 1st Corinthians chapter 2. He's rejecting human wisdom, right? But he says, we do speak wisdom. So it's not a complete rejection of wisdom.

We do speak wisdom among those who are mature, going back to Phil's reference to Hebrews 5 earlier, the mature who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. This is an explanation of how that happens. It's a wisdom, however, not of this age or the rulers of this age who are passing away, but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery. It's the hidden wisdom that God predestined before the ages up to our glory. The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age had understood, for if they had understood it, they would have not crucified the Lord of Glory.

But as it has written, these things which I has not seen, Here is not heard in which have not entered the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him. That's a key verse. All that God has prepared for those who love him. But listen to verse 10. For to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. What is them? All that God has prepared for those who love Him.

for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. The Holy Spirit is, this is how faith works. God, the Holy Spirit, reveals to us all the things that God, all the wonderful blessings, the goodness of God, the glorious riches of God, like that soup I mentioned earlier, but infinitely better than that. The spiritual soup of God. The spiritual... So I have my answer.

You understand what I'm saying, though? I love it. And here's my answer, because you did ask a profound question that I didn't have an answer to. You said, well, what's your role in that? My answer would be then for us to surrender in that process. Yes. When you hear Jesus, because that's what Jesus did, he surrendered, one, by becoming a man, but then he also went to a cross with that surrendered spirit.

So when we go to the 1 John passage and it says, do what's right or do good, don't do wrong, he started off saying in 1st John 1, whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. So I'm saying, not only do you surrender to Jesus at the first, and you do die, I've been crucified. That's why I think baptism is important, not because it's you doing that, it's your opportunity to surrender to the will of the of God based on what you understand of Jesus. But then when you come out every day, you've got to over and over do that act of surrender to let God's power flow through you.

That's why I'm giving him the credit. So I'm saying I have to constantly remind myself, that is why I read the Bible, that is why I pray that this is not about me. I'm still going to stick to my stance. I don't believe I can do anything good. My role is to surrender to the Holy Spirit that's in me. and that's what I'm going with.

And the prime example in scripture of somebody who did what I'm talking about is Abraham. And that's why Romans 4 gives this picture of Abraham submitting to God's revelation. We clearly know that we know what when Abraham took Isaac up on Mount Moriah to sacrifice him. He didn't have a clue how God was going to do what he said he was going to do. Well, right. And if it was up to him, what would he do? He would say, this doesn't make sense. And that's my point.

He didn't know how, but he knew. the goodness of God. That's why he says when he went up the mountain, he said, me and the sun are going to go up and then we're going to come back. I appreciate you sharing that. Because me, I can't explain how, but you know who. I know who. I know who's behind. That's the argument, Phil. At some point, your step that that thought in Hebrews 5, you mentioned,

we're told to love must be sincere. Hate what is evil. What is evil. hate what is evil, cling to what's good. He said, cling to what's good. It's the opposite of evil. Here's another one. Everyone has heard about your obedience to the Romans. So I'm full of joy over you,

but I want you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what's evil. That's three times, Hebrews 5, Romans 12, Romans 16, when this continuing thought is brought about it says you need to be conscious of what good is, only God is good, man's not, but you've been saved by the blood of Jesus, you've been empowered so that you can really, people can see the power of God by watching whether you're a loving person, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. We have agreed on who. Let's stop right there for you change your mind. Yeah, well, let me say this. Good is about a value.

It's not a duty. Right and wrong, that's a duty. That's your duty. Good and evil are a description of a value of what something's worth. And I think when we distinguish what's good and evil through the spirit, it's that we're seeing what God's telling us is very valuable. So now my motivation becomes not, I'm not doing this out of a grudging submission. I'm submitting to the Holy Spirit because I'm seeing the value.

you and what God is offering and I can have true. You lie to your neighbor. You say, not good. But Phil, you're doing it because who is good? He is good. How many people are good? One. Three persons, one being.

Can we stop? I think we have to because we're out of time.