Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 174 | The Undecided Election & Appeasement of Leftists | Guests: Ann McElhinney & Phelim McAleer

Episode Date: November 4, 2020

Phil and Al are joined by election refugees Ann McElhinney and Phelim McAleer, the conservative filmmakers behind "Gosnell: The Trial of America's Biggest Serial Killer" and "Obamagate." They discuss journalism and the age-old struggle between good and evil, the Hollywood wasteland, how Ann and Phelim got burned out on leftism and "pro-choice" politics, and what it was like to meet murderous abortionist Kermit Gosnell in prison. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So the coffees, you hear it finishing in the, you know, we like, you know, dogs come by and bark. Our podcast, you never know what's going to happen. So what has happened today, Dad, is that we have two of my very dear friends, Anne and Fellam, who are here as what do you call election refugees? That's what we are. That's right. We escaped Los Angeles. So let's start there. So obviously last night we have an election that we don't know the results of, which is kind of expected, I guess.

And it's unfortunate. I mean, Trump tried to make a push at the end, like, let's get this thing done, motivate people. But as we've all surmised, there's probably sinister forces at work to try to steal as much as they possibly can. So you guys are from Ireland, which our audience will pick up quickly when you start talking. And we were eating dinner when you first got guys first got here. And so the woman who owns the restaurant comes up, Dad, and she's like, she's meeting. I said, these are my friends, you know, they're from L.A., but by way of Ireland, you know. And so they start talking.

She says, what? She's getting about every third word, I think, that you guys were saying. Yeah, yeah. So you're in L.A. now. You live on Venice Beach, and it's beautiful where you guys are. And I came out. We rode bikes last time. We were out there.

You almost kill me. But so tell us why you're in Louisiana, because we just did your podcast as well. So what caused you guys to reach out to us a month ago? Well, I think we didn't want to be on our own on election night. We wanted to be with friends. And we could have gone to friends in Los Angeles. But the problem was everyone said, but you can't come home. You won't be able to drive back home from wherever you are in Los Angeles.

Because if Trump wins particularly, then there'll be these riots. So we just thought. And by the way, everyone we know was leaving Los Angeles. They were finding somewhere to shelter for the election. It sounds like a Mad Max movie. Yes. No, that's exactly correct.

It is exactly correct. And by the way, during those BLM riots that happened during the summer and stuff, I mean, that's exactly what it was like, by the way. Santa Monica, you know? Armed groups. Marauding around. Marauding.

But as Phelam says, the looting that went on in Santa Monica, it was really frightening. I have to say, I was over in Santa Monica. moniker for the looting and there is something so shocking about a shop that has been looted because you see all the shelves and a few things left and you realize there was so much here and this was somebody's dream and they and they went to all this effort of the shelves and beautiful and beautifully decorated beautifully decorated but you talked about maraudian and mad mac so we have a friend who lives up in Hollywood and Hollywood

was a bit down trouble but it was coming back but during the summer there was no office staff because everyone was working from home there was no tourists which was a lot of Hollywood the only people who were there were homeless who've had 30 years of too much drugs

and alcohol and BLM rioters and you're literally in a wasteland of Hollywood and it's just a it's a stressful place it's a place where you're not not drive you don't want to go to someone's house in the evening because you don't know if you'll

get back uh because there are groups blocking streets and that was the thing and it was only how would you like some of that oh my goodness it's just it's just it's hard for us to imagine yeah and we're still here and we don't know who the president is yet no it's not good i'm just and i think the longer that goes yeah the more possible likely that you're going to start seeing this where you know because all it takes is one group to go out in the street one night and then it just it's like a contagion yeah you know across the yeah that's a social

contagion I mean and I don't want people might think we're exaggerating but I grew up in Northern Ireland I know what a riot looks like I know what civil disturbance yeah exactly looks like and you know and I always I hate it when people exaggerate and I hate it when people say you know and especially

in politics there's a lot of rhetoric this we voted with their feet you know we were we could we felt we could not go. We couldn't invite someone to our house for the election and we couldn't go to someone's house. So the peaceful protest, it's not suit, it's not not, not, not, not,

not, not, not, uh, not that peace. No, no, no. And, uh, and and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it's only if, it was only if Trump was winning that we would be fear. Uh, it's very funny. I play football with a bunch of guys, you know, international soccer, as you people call it. And, uh, uh, you know,

one of the guys, I remember, one of the guys said, there's going to be riots if Trump loses. And I'm looking at him going. No. If Trump loses, people are going to,

conservatives are going to get up and do their podcasts or go to work or do whatever we do and talk about it and feel upset or sad or feel tomorrow is another day. Yeah,

but we're not going to spit the dummy and act like children who didn't get their way. We're not going to do that. What's you're saying, Dad, that the one thing you'll never do you can count on?

I'm never walking out on the street. in a city with a stick with a sign of it. I'm not going to do that. Ever. I don't care how bad it gets. I'm not going to do that. Which is interesting because obviously everybody has a right to protest and, you know, they did when they started the country.

But you're right. Most of us look at it. Like, we don't want to destroy our society. You just mentioned it. We have dreams. People have dreams. They have businesses. Most of them are immigrants.

Yes. And minorities. James. James Madison said you have the right to peaceably assemble. Peacably. You start burning, loot, and shooting. Now, that's why the news media says, well, most of it, most of it is peaceful. Right.

Oh, yeah. Mostly peaceful. With the burning building in the background. Just 10% of us burned the thing down. I know. 90% of us, we didn't. But one of the awful things they had as well, well in L.A. and in the shops near us where they put

the barricades up and they'd write black owned business as if to say by the way well if the business is owned by white people anything's whatever you need to do you know well you know what Churchill described appeasement and I'll

Louisiana I can't wait to hear the fellow Louisiana so Churchill's said appeasement is feeding an alligator hoping he will devour you last. He said a crocodile. It's feeding a crocodile hoping he'll eat you last. And this black

owned business and it's, it's and and these companies who mean, you know, universal. They stop their bonuses for all their staff this year. And LA is an expensive city. Yeah. And the people need these bonuses to survive. No

money because of the pandemic. But they give a hundred million to BLM. It makes no sense to me. Well, it's appeasement. It's feeding the crocodile. Hoping that they'll save you for last. Let's see if this makes sense to you, Irelanders. Mark this.

That means, don't forget this, write this down. Mark this, get ready for that. Mark this, there will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disdeme, disobeyed to their parents ungrateful unholy

without love unforgiving what do they call them cancel culture slanderous without self-control brutal not lovers

of the good treacherous rash conceded lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God have nothing to do with him stay away from them that was written 2,000 years ago unbelievable you reckon he was on to something oh yeah I mean it's just description yes it's perfect I'm pretty amazing you read a 2,000 year old writing what is the reference what where is that that's second Timothy chapter 3 so and he's

talking to a young man Timothy and describing this second because you remember they were mostly reaching out to Greeks you know in their culture and so they were going to these places and that's exactly what they were seeing I mean he he describes them brute beast you know talking about these people from these different islands that they were visiting everyone who sins breaks the law in fact sin is lawlessness so you say what we have here I've seen a bit of that so dad's first book the theft of America so we when we started with that kind of concept, that was the one you just quoted, that was our mindset. Because it was right after Trump had gotten elected. And we were seeing this just straight up lawlessness in the streets and all this stuff. And we, Dad and I are looking at each other and saying, we're seeing now a whole new thing, you know, but then what we saw before? That's correct. And so it was like, what is this? And so the deeper dive we did, of course, everything we do comes from a spiritual lens. So we based the book on the evil one and how that all the major institutions in America, he was one. He was one. winning because of you see the development. It was interesting, Dad, in that verse you said

disobedient to parents. And that seems kind of out of place. You're saying, well, it's a disobedient child. But when you look at Antifa, it's pampered, white, rich kids that are just throwing the biggest temper tantrum in the history of the world. I don't know if it's against God, against their parents, or what it is, but it's that verse. One of the signs that little girls were carrying, I saw another day, somebody showed it to me. I don't have a cell phone. I never got around about in a suit. or a cell phone. Or a watch. If I ever need one.

You might be okay now. Somebody says, well, how do you tell time if you don't have a watch? I'm like, I would guess right now it's about on up in the morning. I came over here probably about a couple hours after daylight. See, daylight, dark. We got lunch at some point, midday. Dinner time. Thanks, pretty much.

12 o'clock. So that way, you don't have to worry about it. I'll meet you about dark. dark at the gate or I'll see what I'll do but allow me to be on up in the night now well that's getting on up for you know one day at a night that's one two in the morning you see what I'm saying that's what we were last night I like the sound of that I could see some you know just I could see some disadvantages to operating like that you know but you know we won't have to go into them right now but yeah I'll see you around the time it gets dark it's like and for a long

time that's really how we functioned here I mean you know now things have to be a little more on time because of commitments. So I want to hear from you guys about sort of, so you're from Ireland, obviously, and you're journalists. You're both journalists. So I want to hear a little bit about why you left Ireland and kind of what that process was like. Well, we left Ireland initially actually for work. We went to Romania in Eastern Europe. I was a journalist. I covered Romania and Bulgaria and the Republic of Moldova for the Financial Times. And it was a very interesting time. Romania was coming out of communism. So this was been early 90s?

Early 2000. It was coming out of the communism, but heading towards European Union membership and NATO membership and, you know, and prosperity as well. And you know, we went there and I think, you know, we're

European journalists, so therefore we're liberal because there is no other, there isn't you're not allowed to be a European journalist. It's an unwritten rule unless you're liberal. And we, we, we ended up covering a story about a gold mine in Transylvania. That's what's a great story.

Transylvania is a real place too. Yeah, yeah. And Dracula was there. Dracula was there. So it was this Canadian mining company was going to go and destroy a village, wipe it out. According to Greenpeace.

And pollute the waterways and destroy everything. Rape and pillage. Rape and pillage. And so we went up there, we went up there in the tree and because it was Transylvania, we were all thinking about,

the headline that would have to have vampire and sucking blood in it and all these metaphors. And we got up there and yes, the company was going to destroy a lot of the village. But two-thirds of the village had no running water, right? So in Europe, in the year 2002, two-thirds of the people had outhouses, right? And it gets cold there. And it gets cold there, minus 20 centigrade, which is like a million in Fahrenheit. I'm not sure. Just horribly cold.

We're still in European temperatures. And the company said, yes, we're going to knock down your house that has no outside bathroom. There's no inside bathroom. But we're going to build you a nice house. And what they did was they built a model house in the middle of the village saying, this is what you can get. Would you like it? So people would come in, like, and it was the nicest place. So they go in and we went in to the model house and there standing in the living room with the model house was this 86-year-old woman crying.

And we thought, excellent. Here's the story. We got a story. The evil Canadian. Evil Canadians. The crying old woman. Journalists are different. Journalists are different.

When they see crying people, they get all excited. They get all excited. Most people, when they see crying, people feel sad. We go, ooh, right? Excellent. I've got a story here. Most people have empathy. You guys last year. Yeah, yeah.

So we're the vampires, actually, what do you think about it? Yes. Hang on, Phil. Let's take a quick break. So, as I was saying, so we rush over to the woman and Anne says, why are you crying with a micropygic? Why are you crying? And she looks at us and you go, I just hope I live long enough to live in a house like this. Uh-oh.

Your narrative just was swirling around the bubble, right? Oh, right. And opposing her were two environmentalists, one from Switzerland and one from Belgium, two rich kids. Rich women. Rich women. Too much time on their hands. Yeah. They needed other, let's just say they needed other enthusiasms that they weren't getting.

Whoa, Philellum. You do know what podcast you're on here, right? They need a distractions, I will say. That's my analysis. But it was really horrible. So you had these two foreigners, two outsiders, rich outsiders who in their own lives had never known anything but gorgeous homes and warm water and indoor bathrooms and all that lovely stuff.

And they spent their careers traveling around places like this place called Rasha, Montana, and stealing and destroying the dreams of a village. And so we went around the village, found everyone was supportive of the mine, everyone loved the Canadians, everyone loved the opportunity that this was going to lend them, that's going to allow their children would get to stay in the village. And, you know, like when I say, like think about us last night with all the lovely kids around, all the grandkids around, how beautiful that is. Here was a situation where that could have happened. And that was stolen from that village by two outsiders. And basically all the young people had to go to Spain to work, had to leave home to work because there was no work in the area. As journalists, we then had to say, whose story are we telling? Are we telling, is it important for us to tell the story of the environmentalist, the plucky environmentalist fighting the big company, or tell the story of the 86-year-old woman who all she wants is an indoor toilet, right? And how it's being, whose side are you on?

What is the victim here? By the way, I think we were also, because we were kind of lefty, and I think when you see what capitalism can do, And you see it like in a real way. And you see this lady and you think, that lady wants to sell what she owns to have this beautiful life with this lovely home. And then you have come along and you're going to take that away from her.

It's like I actually think it was very easy for us to think, hello, excuse me here. What is going on here? And we, I actually remember thinking, oh my God, we're going to tell the whole world about this incredible mining company that mining actually is a great thing it offers all these opportunities. We're going to win all kinds of Pulitzer Prizes.

That's back in the day when I was innocent. But I went up, we went up, a mountain one way, I can tell you that. And we came down a mountain another way. So when did you get burned out on this left-wing ideology? That happened on that mountain top. Basically, in

Roshamontana, we came down and realized who, you know, because most people, when they go to college and stuff like that, that whole thing of being on the side of the oppressed, right, on the poor and all of And it's like, well, actually, it's very clear whose side we should be on here is the lady, the older lady from this place who wanted to live in a nice warm home and wanted to be close to her grandchildren and children and have opportunities. And it's like, am I on that lady's side or am I on the side of these two women with too much time on their hands? But also, they lied.

They were lying. And they lied. And we caught them in a couple of lies. Huge lies. And in my naivity, I phoned up and said, look, you've said this. That's right. This is not true because I've checked it out. And he goes, oh, yeah, we know that.

And I'm going, well, are you going to withdraw that? Correct the record. No, no. The person who wrote that, she's very emotional, but so we don't want to correct her. No, the truth is the truth. You're dealing with people's lives. So I think, you know, we definitely, that changed us. And then we made this documentary called Mine Your Own Business, where we took an unemployed

miner from them. By way, this town has been mining. Russia, Montana, the Red Mountain. The Romans invaded Romania. that's why it's called Romania because the Romans came in. Yeah. In, because of the gold.

Romans were mining there. So this is a mining village. We took an unemployed miner to other, a project in Madagascar. You mean, there was enough gold there that the company thought it could be there for a while. Yes.

It was not only that actually. It was the biggest, the biggest gold mine opportunity in Europe at the time. Yes. And that mine, by the way, just to let everyone know who's listening, has never opened.

And that woman never got her house. And that woman never got her house. And she's no, And she's no longer with us. She never got her indoor bathroom. And they knew the goal was there. No, there's loads of gold there. There's no doubt about that.

Yes. Yeah. But so do these two outsiders stole the dreams of a village. And I can tell you one thing, that got us going. And we've made, since then, we've made a bunch of documentaries about environmentalism and looking at what environmentalists do. And, you know, they're really good at lying. They're good at terrorizing people with stuff that's not true.

So they tell things like arsenic in the water. Oh, you're going to die. Oh, there'll be earthquakes. Oh, there'll be this and that. and when you examine it, when you investigate, you find that in the main, they're basically, they just lie about everything because they hate development.

That was how I discovered you guys was the fragnation, which was about fracking. Which guys were here, you did a great document on that. And it came out at the time, I'm sure you guys timed it, where the movie with Matt Damon, which was just...

Promise land. I mean, yeah, yeah, the whole thing. So it's just, to me it's like you guys are now just rebuttles to so many movements, you know, that happens. Yeah, and it's important to tell the truth. It's right. It really is.

And, you know, we didn't set out to be rebuttal. And I know, I quite like being popular. And when you're a lefty, you're quite popular. And it's quite nice and it's very warm and comfortable to be in that. I've noticed that just watching through the years, I've been at this about 45, 50 years, just telling people, look, where, you know, asking them, where did the cosmos come from? what do you think? They're like, well, and they'll come up with all these things. You know, there was an explosion. I said, well, what was there?

Before that. Yeah, just before that. They said, well, nothing. I said, well, how does nothing explode? So we start there, we tell them, but I will have to admit, we have converted our very few left-wingers, they call them, right? Very few. We've converted a few. Interesting text in John chapter 8. Jesus is talking to some people.

They want to kill him, but they've told him they believe in him. But what's what he says? He says, why is my language not clear to you? Because you're unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer. Speaking of, the Bible said there is a devil. There is a God.

He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there's no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language. He's a liar, and this is interesting, and the father of lies. So when Jesus ran up on him, being the mistake-free person, God, in a human body, which is wild, you look at that and say, whoa. Well, say whoa all you want to, but as I mentioned earlier, our calendar, even in Ireland, says he was here. You count backwards last year, 2019, 2018. Count back you'll get to year one. That's the year Jesus showed up.

Well, I would think the person that your calendar, no matter where you are on the earth, is based on one individual. I would at least investigate him. Yeah, that's very good. Pretty thoroughly. That's very good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

Remember that story, but the journalist who decided to investigate to disprove the existence of God and then ended up realizing, oops. He's trouble. Yeah. He was an atheist. And in fact, I just talked to him. I was with him last week. And now he's written all these wonderful books because the best way to refute something is somebody that's come out of it. So he understands the tactics of atheism.

I was saying the same thing that I went to Romans 1 because you were talking about environmentalism. And again, that thought process has been around. These are 2,000-year-old letters, but it said they exchanged, they didn't love God and what he created, but they fell in love with the creation itself and then rose it above. And that's environmentalism. It is a religion all in its own. And it's all about things that they think they're doing good, but instead they wind up being destructive and lie. You know, let me through their teeth. Here's a one, one to remember. Hang on, Dan, let's take a quick break for you, read that. For all the people who are running around saying, we're going to save the planet, we're going

to save the planet. Let's see, your throne, oh God will last forever and ever, righteous to be the scepter of your kingdom. You love righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore, God, your God has set you above your companions. He's talking about Jesus. He also says, in the beginning, O Lord, you let you live. the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain. They will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a scroll, like a garment.

They'll be changed, but you remain the same in your years will never end. The writer of Hebrew said, you're not going to save it. he's going to do away with it and give you another one. That's Peter over there, new heavens, new earth. Well, the first one got there somehow. I don't think it made itself. That would be asking a lot. I don't see how nothing could have made it.

So I've just run into a deal where I'm saying, you know what, if this is true, being the wild story that it is, God becoming flesh, removing our sin on a cross, guaranteed we could be resurrected and have a glorified body that never cries, no tears, no pain, and we live on and on and on. You think about it, we all started out rather small inside a female. That was quite the process to get a fear from nothing.

You don't exist, and all of a sudden, bing, in your... Yeah. That's pretty amazing. And the other thing is the incredible thing is that from that, whatever, and it's smaller than that, obviously. Everything about you is there written already. All everything, every weird thing about you. And there's no one on earth like you.

No one. Well, thanks be to God for that. So I want to talk about, because it's interesting. So you guys obviously came out of being more left than right, saw these things and kind of came to awareness. I'm assuming, although I don't know this, because some of that I didn't know about the Romania, that you got, were you pro-choice in terms of your early thing?

Because it's interesting, we met, and you guys worked on a project called Gisnell, and I think the movie had just come out as about to when we first met, and then you were doing a book, which I wrote the Ford for your book. So we became friends through the process. So it's one of the most, when you guys asked me to, to do the forward. When I read the book, I've never read anything quite like it. I was, I was angry and sad at the same time. I mean, as angry as I've ever been and as sad as I've

ever been, reading this story that you guys put together in the book about Kermit Guys Nell. So I want you to speak to that a little bit about how that changed, that was more in your evolution too, and exactly what you saw from the life perspective. I think, you know, I think I think I hadn't thought an awful lot about abortion, but I think the default position for most people in Europe is kind of pro-choice. And by the way, pro-choice sounds good. I mean, I like Costco, right? You know, you like choice.

America is great because you're going to, you know, the stores are big and there's loads of choice. Choice sounds really good. And so we kind of came across this story, kind of by accident, about Kermit Gosnell. And Phelam was in Philadelphia, heard about this court case. And we were actually promoting our Fract Nation documentary at the time and traveling around, whatever. And he hears about this, goes down into this courthouse. And there are people giving evidence of what they've seen that happened in this House of Horrors, as it was called. It's an abortion clinic.

This abortion clinic run by this guy called Kermit Gosnell. But people are giving evidence, but also on front of the jury, they projected images of the children. Like they had these photographs. Yes. And they were blown up the size of that. And I have covered the Northern Ireland troubles. I have seen it all. I thought.

I had never seen anything like this. never heard evidence like this before in my life of the killing of babies born alive. And as Phelan says, one of the most shocking things was he looked behind him and there were all these, they'd actually, they actually selected a really large courtroom because they expected, all the journalists from around the world are going to come to this because it's going to be huge, right? Because this is an extraordinary. This man is on trial for murdering children, for murdering babies who are born alive and he cut

their necks with a scissors. And he did this hundreds of thousands of times. He's America's biggest serial killer. So they, rightfully so, without any kind of to do with pro-life or any of that pro-trize, they just thought, well, this is an incredible story. If it bleeds, it leads. This is the kind of thing. This is a new story.

Again, journalists. Right? And guess what happened? So Phelam is sitting there in the courtroom, looks around, and there are basically all these empty benches where the journalists should be. There are actually more people in this room now than there were journalists at that trial, right? And that is an actual fact. And to me, so I came back to Los Angeles. And I think when you move from liberalism out of liberalism,

I think for a lot of people, the last thing to go was abortion. Funny enough, because it's such a moral thing. It's hard to accept that you might have been in favor of it in the past, right? For a lot of people. When liberals and rednecks meet, most of the time, there's friction. We're rednecks. Oh, we've worked that one out.

Yes. So I came home and I said to Anne and Magda, this is our story. This is, this is, and they said, no, no, we do want to do abortion. We don't want to do abortion. So I ordered the transcripts of the trial. And when they came, I told Anne and Magda read this, right? And they started reading it and they came back and says, we're doing this. There's nothing else we want to do except for this.

We're doing this. Because what was extraordinary was, and again, this is kind of, you know, I mean, out of extreme evil, very good things can come, bizarrely, I think. And in this case, the thing that was good was that people are asked. There's one thing about, hey, what do you think about this, Alan? And you say, whatever. There's a difference between you answering that or me saying, under oath, put your hand on that Bible and tell me the truth. And by the way, and if you don't tell the truth, we could put you in prison for a while. So people behave differently in a court of law and they'll tell the truth.

So people were asked, what did you see? What did it look like? What did you hear? And so people gave this incredible evidence. And one of the really amazing moments, and this is the reason we got, this is what really motivated us. So at this trial, the really important thing to explain to the jury was the difference between legal abortion and murder. So they needed to make a distinction because obviously abortion is legal here. And in fact, a lot of people don't know this.

Abortion in the United States is legal up to nine months. Perfectly legal in the United States. So this jury needed to understand the difference. So the way to do that is they got a good abortionist to come under oath. Tell me how you do it when you do it well. Describe it. Tell me what a good abortion is. Describe these people here what a good abortion looks like.

And so you have someone, this isn't a pro-life rally. This is someone under oath. You tell me now, you do this for a living. Tell me how to do it. And that woman, and that woman described, well, that was a, okay, tell us that. First of all, first of all. So they said, you know, she's an expert, he's an expert witness. Let's establish your expert bonus.

And I said, how many abortions have you done? In your career? In your career. And the answer was? The answer was 40,000. And the jury gasped. And it was the only time in the trial. Look at Alan with his mouth.

40,000. 40,000. 40,000. And that's one doctor. It's like a factory. The jury was looking at pictures of dead babies with wounds in the back of their neck. And they were sitting there like this. The only time they gasped during the whole trial,

when that doctor said that because they'd never considered this industrial process that people had made careers. They thought it was something legal and rare and safe and all that. And now they're going,

someone has done 40,000. We put it in the movie, but we cut it down to 30,000 because we thought no one would believe anyone had done 40,000 abortions, right? You know, because we didn't want to destroy, we didn't want people going, that's not true.

So we cut it to 30 because, you know, nobody would believe that. So, under oath, 40,000. And then... But basically she was asked, you know, and so she was asked to discuss, abortion and you know people were just completely aghast and we know because we've interviewed members

of the jury nothing shocked them more than the description of a good abortion of a legal abortion and it's like they're sitting there going and in fact the jury were very very they were hand selected not to be pro life they were hand selected to be either pro choice or kind of neutral and by the way there's no neutrality on this issue you're really your pro abortion or your anti-abortion But basically they're sitting there. So a lot of times when people are just starting out new, you know, into building their lives, they don't have debt, which is a good thing, but they also don't have credit because they haven't, you know,

they don't have any debt. So these things kind of work hand in hand. So you need your points to be higher to be able to be able to get some, you know, a loan or whatever. So the average person gets 97 points immediately if you go to school. Scoremaster, which is one of our sponsors. And so it's pretty amazing. On average, it's 61 points in 20 days or less.

So if you're about to, you know, buy a car, by a boat, by a house, you're going to need this to get your loan. So you can go to their website, scoremaster.com slash fill. You roll in just a few minutes and you see how many points you can add your credit score. So if you need that, scoremaster.com slash fill and check these guys out and get your points moved up just a little. little bit more so you can be able to get that long. So they're sitting there and they're hearing this and they were profoundly

shocked because for them they're like, well there's really no difference between a legal abortion and what this guy did. So what he and what he did was he filled these women up with a thing called sight attack which meant that they dilated. The babies fell out and then they just came with

the scissors and cut the back of the neck which killed the babies. But some of the babies were alive and this is one of the worst parts of the story, you know, people would see them and the child would be trying to, and I mean, just off, now I know things that I wish I, you know, I got an education that more people need this education.

And you guys actually interviewed Gisnail in prison. Oh yeah, we went to prison and we were there for, yeah, for three hours. Can I just say to people, the movie's Gosnell and, but it's PG-13. Oh, that's true. We've taken a lot of the horrific stuff out of the movie because we want it as many people, but we kept that. The book, the book is not PG-13. The big, book is tough, you know.

It was a tough read. But yes, we went to visit Gossanil in prison. And I've been to prisons before visiting murderers, IRA murderers and all that. Did he seem disturbed by that? Not even slightly. So I'll tell you what it's like to meet him. It's literally, it's, it's, he is, he smiles. He's very, quiet, quiet spoken and very correct.

He's very tall. He's a, he's an African American. He's in his 70s. He's very well made. You know, he's very, very. square shouldered, very tall. And it was one of those weird things, because obviously we had spent an enormous amount of time working on the book,

and working, going through the evidence and going through all the stuff that came out of, you know, photographs and all of that. And speaking to everyone, we, you know, we'd spoken to the detective, Jim Wood, who's a complete hero of ours, and the ADA and all these kind of people. And so then you're with this man and he's like, and he's putting a hand out. And you're thinking, oh my God, I'm going to shake this hand. And then, like, he's all about his hands.

And he's all about his feet. and one of the things that people, and some of your audience probably know this, but he has a thing about feet, so he cut the feet off some of these babies and kept them in jars and labelled them. So when the cops raided the clinic, the first night that they,

when the first raid that they did with Jim Wood there, they find this cabinet. In the same place where people have their peanut butter and yellow sandwiches, right? There's a cabinet filled with these jars of children's feet, in one case, two little feet. And they're like looking at this and thinking, what is this normal?

Because people don't know and it's like is that normal Of course it's not normal That is not normal To do that Which you called him a serial killer That's exactly what you think of Yes

In the movies You know they keep Momentos off And And but he That's the most brutal story I've ever heard Oh well here's what made me

So that made me super sad What made me super angry That you bring out in the book And in the movie But more in the book Is that There was a Republican governor at the time when this was all going down.

Tom Ridge. And basically what they did was just back away from all abortion clinics. So nobody's checking on them. So he's just running this horror shop. It's filthy. It's nasty. There's cats running around all over the place. And these women are coming in.

And one woman actually died there. Two women died there. And so, which nothing ever happened to it. Because basically, a Republican governor said, we're not going to deal with abortion in any way. And so there was no control. troll over this man. He was able to do this for all these years and what infuriated, I'm still mad about

it to this day, is that you'll hear Hillary Clinton or somebody else talk about women's health. As if somehow it's about helping women. And this guy was running this butcher shop. And by the way, all those kids he was killing, half of them were women. Oh, yeah.

So, or soon to be women. And an enormous number of them, a very high percentage of them were African American children who are forever lost. And that's what I thought. I just thought the system failed all these people so miserably. Supposedly. The last stat I saw on it, it had like African Americans, 18 million.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I told you guys, I told our audience that the last two years in a row, there have been more African American children killed in New York City than we're born. Since the Supreme Court ruled, it was you have the right to two years. 18 million. And Gosnell, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he doesle believe he's innocent. history will vindicate him. He's very affable.

He behaved like he'd just come in from a round of golf. Hey, hey, hello. And he sits down. And, you know, we're sitting there and it's and I thought it was going to be through plastic glass. And it's like he's actually sitting closer to us than you guys are. Right. And we're, Anne and I are sitting like this.

And he comes in and of course, any decent person would sit opposite me. He comes in and he sits opposite to Anne. And through the whole interview he keeps going, let me tell you, Anne. And putting his hand on her knee. It's creepy, right? And Anne's looking at it.

But see, as journalists, you know, as journalists, we're not there to be offended, right? I mean, I hate this when journalists go, oh, the police shouted at me or the police did this. You're there in the middle, you're there covering things. It's a dirty, messy job. It's your job. It's your job to listen to this guy. It's our job to listen.

You know, most Americans don't have the opportunity or couldn't handle that. That's right. Our job is to go in and talk to this mass murdering serial killer and try and understand how it happened and try and bring people information. Right. So if he puts his hand on my knee or Anne's knee, it doesn't matter. We'll suck it up.

And we were on the side of the angels, you know. And he's there and he is, I mean, he has, you know, they talk about affect, you know, this thing of affect. So he has the, as film says, he has the affect of just having just had a cocktail or something. He's got this kind of super relaxed. You'd almost feel like you were in a kind of a country club with him. That's the way he's behaving.

He's super unaffected by anything We let him talk quite a bit at the beginning To let him warm up or whatever And then we started asking him very direct questions And you could see him He dropped his eyes and went Oh, you know about that And this is kind of how we

And he would But he was incredible I mean he's just a liar Yeah He's just a liar I think about the verses The talk about the conscience Is seared with a hot iron

You know God giving over to depravity Which you earlier in And that's this guy. Let's take one last break. So we're in our last segment here. So I wanted to basically, we've kind of followed your career in it, but it's also interesting how that's put you on the path you've been on it. One of the things that I loved about you guys right off the bat was the authenticity.

And like you guys, I mean, I was just seeing a lack of authenticity, especially in journalism. And now it's just off the rails. I mean, it's just, we've seen the last four years. It's just open rooting for one side. Yes. And so, but one of the things I love about what you guys do, and you did it with Gisnell, and now since then, it's a week of verbatim theater. So it's like now Phelma and Ann have this great brilliance to, it's not like it's our opinion.

They take transcripts, they take a Senate hearing committee or whatever, and they just take those. So it's just straight someone's testimony and then turn that into documentaries or plays or whatever. So you did one on Ferguson? that I was able to attend. Yeah, you guys came to New York. Which was really interesting because you had these actors that totally are in the tank like left-wingers,

but they're acting. They need a job, right? So they're reading these texts about Ferguson because these guys showed from the context of all the transcripts. That was just complete BS, which we knew. That they never did this. They never put their hands up.

You know, don't shoot all that. So Ferguson was wonderful in the sense that the grand jury transcripts were released. So you had 40 eyewitness accounts plus the forensics And it was a minute-by-minute account Of the last minutes of Michael Brown's life And you had these brilliant actors reading only And we didn't add any drama, any details to it

But they were only reading actual And by the way, just to say For anyone who's listening Who'd really like to watch the Ferguson play It's available for free on YouTube And they just go to Ferguson Play I think put in Ferguson Play And you'll find it.

To show you how powerful it is We opened it in LA nine of the actors walked out during rehearsal because they couldn't handle the truth because the media told them it's all hands up, don't shoot. And when they read the script, they were going, I don't want any part of this. This doesn't match what I believe.

And I'm going, well, this is the words of eyewitness, many of them African American, don't you want to give these people a voice? And the answer is no, they didn't. Yes, right. And then, you know, so we did that. And then the latest one is Obama gate, which is, tell him how to get to that.

When he lies, he speaks his native language. they're given over to him. You see what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah, that's that 30,000 foot view. And that's why... Tell folks how to get to Obamagate, because it's fantastic. Obamagetmovie.com.

And it's free on YouTube as well. Obamagetmovie.com. So Peter Struck and Lisa Page, the two FBI agents, the FBI lovebirds, their text messages have been released, and their Senate testimony has been released, and so was Comey and Brennan's. So we put together, and it's only... It's kind of a... It's a brilliant...

actually because it's kind of part love story, part teen, embarrassing teen texts, but part deep state conspiracy. And it's got this weird. So one minute they're texting lovey-dovey text to each other. And the other next time they're planning how to bring down

candidate Trump and how to bring down President Trump. So it's funny, sad and infuriating. And Dean Kaine plays Peter Strzok and Christy Swanson plays Lisa Page. But it's quite scary to realize this is how these people spoke. And these are not just regular FBI agents. that you'd find over the country. These are the top ranking FBI agents.

And basically you have Peter Strzok saying to his lover, Christy Swanson, to Lisa Page, he's not going to become president. No, we're going to stop it. And that's his own words. That's his own words. That's his own honesty. That's him telling the truth about what his intentions were.

And obviously, we've all lived to find out about that. To prove your point, wasn't Strach, the one that interviewed Flynn. Yes. He was a part of it. So you're talking about their guy that they send in for anything big. I mean, you know, and that whole thing was just hatched down. And you can see in the text message, they spent weeks editing and as he said, polishing the Flynn 302, which is their transcript off his interview.

I'm going, why are you editing and polishing the transcript of an interview? Why couldn't you record it? Why couldn't you record it? Strach was a master of deception because when he went before the Congress, they didn't lay a glove on him. I mean, he was a great liar. Yes. And that's what they all have to come.

Of course, as many people as he ropedoop through his career, I mean, he had it down to a art form. But it's amazing to me, by the way, we're kind of like sort of laughing there, Phil,

you know, it doesn't like technology and all of this, right? Well, it's interesting, Phil, actually. The FBI don't either. So the FBI, well,

they interviewed somebody as serious as General Flynn, and they just didn't think, oh, you know what? We can record this. with a phone, with a tape recorder, with a camera. But no. So maybe, I don't know, Phil, you know, are you in the, are you at the, with the FBI?

Because you're on to something there. I'm careful who I run with. Yeah, yeah. And we have cameras and recorders everywhere. But when you're, that's the deal. When you're, when you're not trying to shape narratives and create your own truth, which is what these people do. Everybody we've been talking about here that you guys have done these documentaries

on in plays, these now are contributors, news contributors. One of these guys have a gig now, mostly CNN or MSNBC. So think about it. You're a polished liar, and you tried to basically have a coup in the United States of America,

and your reward is not jail. It's a good gig to continue the lies with all your sources. I mean, it's really incredible when you think about how this thing has worked itself around, which is amazing. You want a scary text. Yes.

We're ready for scary text time. Written 2,000 years ago. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit, miracles, signs, wonders, and every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. Now listen to this. They perish because they refuse to love the truth. and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion

so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. So you can get to a point to where God just gives you over to it and he sends you a delusion and the delusion is I'm lying and I know I'm lying, but it's my truth.

It's my truth. Oh, it's my truth. It's my truth. So that's why when Jesus rolled in, he said, I am the truth. Mistake-free. So on one side you have, it's the age-old struggle between good and evil. It's been there ever since mankind arrived. They believe they're alive.

Good and evil. And I would say, wouldn't you agree that most, journalists now believe that this whole anti-Trump and hiding this stuff and not talking about the whole Hunter Biden thing. Let's don't talk about that. Is they view themselves as doing a good thing?

Yes. It's a moral crusade. That's right. So the end justifies the means because what the end is is good. Is Biden. I mean, the Hunter Biden thing, for a journalist, and we talked about being journalists earlier, we have a different brain, right? When we see

misery, we get excited. I don't mean that. You kind of do, though. You kind of do. You know, and I mean, there's so much in the Hunter Biden thing. I mean, you know, even for these liberal journalists like this. And that came and went. No, but I never came.

They never came. They never reported on that. Except for the guys on Fox. That was the only guys you even heard anything about it. We wouldn't even know that there was a hunter-bite. And then you have Twitter, you know, where you have, you know, Dorsey, who basically wouldn't allow the New York the New York Post story to be,

to be transmitted, to be broadcast. I mean, these are extraordinary people, and they have an incredible amount of power. And this is kind of what, so what we kind of do is, we tell stories that the media won't tell. And what I love the way you guys do it, and we'll wrap with this.

So you do that by going straight to the people. I mean, most of your projects are funded by people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's true. Crowdfunded. Gosnell, we crowdfunded that to make the movie. We raised $2.3 million from 30,000 people.

It was the most successful. Like an amazing story. story and beautiful people turned up. Two people from Ireland turn up in America saying give us, trust us to tell this important story. And they give us more than two million dollars like randomers. I mean, it's fabulous. And people from Australia, people from all over

the world, people were very touched and very affected. And people were, once they became aware of the Gosnell story and they realized why has no one told me this? Why do I not know this? They got angry. They got really angry and they're like, yeah, we're going to give you money. And people did amazing things. People like sent us

$10 a month like for years. because it took us a long time to get the film made because, you know, you can imagine Hollywood. That's one thing I think I was drawn to you guys. I mean, Lisa and I are dear friends with both of you, but it is that truth seeking because that's what we do. You know, we do it more from a biblical spiritual perspective. You do it more on a right out there on the front line.

So I love that about you guys. Your podcast is called The Scoop. It's called the Ann and Phelam Scoop, but everyone, Anne and Phelham Scoop, and it's on YouTube and everywhere else. But if anyone wants to find out more about us, you can go to the unreported Story Society. dot com

unreported story society. And we'll flash out on the screen as well. Thanks so much. So glad to have you here. I think it's time for us to go eat some time. I was going to say it's time for lunch. It's time for lunch.

Let's go and get it together. Let's do it. Let's do it. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little

bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else. Subscribe to Blaze TV at blaisTV.com slash unashamed.