Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 194 | When Phil Thought He Met an Angel, Jesus' Last Words From the Cross, and How to Forgive

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

Phil remembers thinking Dan's dad might be an angel, so of course he had to ask. Al recalls driving his cheap car 3 miles in reverse. The guys are joined by Mike Kellett, an elder who preaches with Al at WFR Church. Al reveals his favorite line about their community of believers. And they discuss what Christianity is in its simplest form, the seven last sayings of Jesus on the cross, how to forgive someone who's wronged you terribly, what we can learn from the relationship between Jesus and Mary, and what people think about on their deathbeds. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Today, the first time in the lair, we have my preaching partner, Mike Kellett. Could be with you. Yeah, Mike and I have worked together for, well, in two different stretches. You were our youth pastor for many years when we came back to White's Ferry Road. Yeah, I was from 85 to 98. So, and you in the same schools, that's what got you. you to Westman O because we used to have a seminary.

Yeah, that's actually when I met Phil first. Right. Because in the 76, 77, I came down and OCS had just started there, Watchford Road at the church building. And my buddy that I was my roommate, Gary Stevenson, started doing filming stuff with the Phil back then. And helping us build duck calls, too. Yeah, yeah.

I remember he used to have all the footage laid out there on the table. Yeah. You know, and he's cutting and splicing. and the old days the editing process that was a low tech yeah co-man back there would have a whole different world during those early videos

and he you know he was teaching and working and then he worked at State Farm he worked the whole time he did all our videos which was amazing dad called him steady Eddie and of course he's Dan you've heard us talking about Dan all the time on the podcast he's his dad

so you know there's a family connection there which you know he's always been around of course I don't know if you know this might but dad asked Stevenson, tell what you asked him after you'd been around him a little bit. I don't know if you'd tell that on the podcast.

When you asked him if he was an angel or... Oh, no, I investigated him. I observed him. I said, Teasen, I've got this thing down to a couple of things. You need to some kind of angelic being that's sent down here to spy on us. Because there's a passage in Hebrews, right,

that says, be careful. Angels unaware? Yeah, because if you entertains you. I thought he might have been one. I said, are. I said, if you're not some kind of angiotic being the center on here,

I said, you may be some kind of squarely dude. I said, whatever it is. I said, I notice you don't date. You don't ever mention a woman's name. I said, you know, you're 25 years old. I said, so what's the deal with that? He said, well, I've learned to buffet my body daily as Apostle Paul said, to keep it in check.

I said, well, that solves that mystery. I said, what about some kind of angiotic being? He said, no, I'm a human. I've never thought about that. I said, well, I tell you what, you but a straighter cat as I ever run up on, I tell you that. So, which is a good thing for Pete, think about it. So you were so impressed by this man's, the way he handled himself. I was impressed.

That you thought he could have been an angel, not even a human being. I mean, that's... I said, he's either too good to be true, where he's up to no good, but he is one slick dude. That's all I got to say, but I'm thinking to get to the bottom of it. So he's the long time, friend. Yeah, and shared the gospel with me. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

At Arkansas State University. He's the one that land light to Christ. So we... And Dan, as it turns out, is a lot like him. It is. Dan, he doesn't date, nothing, no. So most people look at him. I said, I don't know what a dude, you know.

How old is it? He about 35. But Dan says, I said, well, Dan, one thing for sure. if you don't marry and all that, I said, it's a lot cheaper. Yeah. Well, not only that, I mean, the Apostle Paul did call celibacy a gift. Plus, he did say people who marry will face many troubles in this life, but I want to spare you this. A lot of people say, that ain't in the Bible.

I said, oh, it's in there. Yeah. Read that Corinthian text. Dad read it at Sadie's wedding. Yeah. You know, she's looking around. She thought it was pretty funny. So, Mike, you were the, so the first stint,

It was really good for me because you kind of took me under your wing. I've told my story before I was a prodigal, came back, got married. I was a new Christian, you know, trying to figure stuff out. So I kind of had a heart for ministry. And so you kind of took me under your wing because you were already doing new stuff. I was too old to do any of that. But I was just kind of, you just kind of took me places. Well, you know, it was fun about that.

I was thinking about this driving out here this morning. Because I remember following you out here when I first met you. What was that old car you at least I had that? Broke down all the time. It was some kind of foreign. It was a Hyundai. A Hyundai or something. Here's how I bought that car.

So I bought that car. It's the first brand new car we ever had in fairly early marriage. And the only reason I got is remember that terrible hailstorm we had when I was in school of preaching. And that thing was beat. I mean, it looked like somebody had taken a baseball bat to it. So they were selling them like super cheap because they had to get rid of them. And so I got that car for like $3,000 bucks, a brand new car.

But I got a $3,000 car. That's what I got exactly. Yeah, because that thing broke down a lot. A lot. And I remember that thing was a piece of junk. One time I was coming out here, it was a stick, you know, and I couldn't get it. It wouldn't change, go into the next gear. It just locked up on me.

And so I'm just sitting up there three miles up the road, just turning on to Leander. I couldn't get it in gear. And I was just like, I'm popping the clutch. I don't know how to work on anything. But it would go in reverse. So I just put it in reverse. And I just was looking back on my. shoulder like this and I drove three miles down here in reverse now two things happen one another

car came up and it was weird because we're hood to hood and he's looking at me like why are you why are you driving in reverse and I'm looking at him giving him the thumbs up like welcome to redneck corner so but here's what happens when you drive three miles in reverse you get a bag crick in your neck because I was looking back over my neck for three miles and when I got down Down here, I couldn't even hardly move. It was terrible. Well, you did prove that you can get somewhere going backwards. That's right.

That's it. And then I think dad or somebody that was down here, got it into gear, and I drove it back home. Well, we came down, Lisa, fixed up for us. And we, uh... Yeah, because we live next door to your dad there and then start spending time together. Yeah. One thing led another, and then we started just doing a lot of ministry work together at camp and teaching people together.

Yeah. You know, we'd get in those veins of reaching somebody, and then they would, in this. their friends and family and then we just you know that thing we kind of domino and so well that's what you know we talk a lot to our audience about it because we got a lot of folks might that are new to christianity a lot of them don't have a church home necessarily or but you got to have good people in your life you know and you saw some potential in me and of course willie and jace were in your youth group and so you worked with them but that's when you see that you should act on that like that's you know iron sharpens iron and so now all these years later um we were we were

were ready to hire a pastor and I was at the church and so they just kind of assumed I was going to be the guy and I was like you know I've seen a lot of really good men come here and the pressure of being the main guy is very heavy you know some men you and I have loved deeply and so I just said I just don't want that for myself you know I don't I don't have an ego about it so I pitched the idea that we would we should hire kellet and me and mike kellett we would be co-pastor and so dad was an elder he was for it uh stevenson was an elder he was for it because you mean they knew us or well but we had a couple of the elders that were kind of like you know you can't have two quarterbacks you know they went through this whole process and i said look you're assuming that mike and i we

totally trust each other so so but it went back and forth they didn't want to do it So finally, I gave them the out. I said, look, let's bring Mike in, and you give us three years to try this. I realize it's unique. You don't usually have co-pastor. I said, well, let's try it for three years. If you don't like it, if we don't like it, whatever, I'll go back to being just what I am right now, which was an associate pastor. Mike can be the lead guy.

And so once I did that, it was hard to argue because I gave him the out. You pretty well just made a big circle, and you came back, ended up the same spot you took off. It was funny because then I left, I divorced his wife. We're like workwives and husband. So I left to go to work for Duck Commander, be on the show and do what I'm doing now. And then that left Mike there to be the guy. But then we hired a young guy. And so he eventually took over about two years ago.

And then he left. And so now Mike and I are back preaching again. Got the band back together. And we're doing it for free. If you look through the, there's not a whole lot of structure and the way the church, the kingdom of God works on the earth. It's not as structured near as structured as our people across America have made it. They get it in their mind.

It has to be done a certain way, right? The American model is a little stiff. You know what's funny, Dad, I feel like right now for Weiss Ferry Road, because we've spent all of us, three of us, all of our Christian life there. But I feel like we're probably the closest to first century in terms of our structure, the way we do things, then we've probably been since this church started. And the plurality of leadership, I mean, who wants something that's built around some personality?

That's right. That's not a healthy thing. No. And so I love the fact of our leaders, our elders, and the ministry staff sees it as partners. There's a lot of verses that talk about partnerships in the gospel. And so I think that's a key thing. Well, when those guys were running around the first century, when Paul was going and Silas was with him,

or you know there's always somebody with him doing just what we did. And but when they were going around, these churches were in these cities and they were meeting in homes. We know that for sure, and probably getting together once and while after that. They would come through with some instruction, but it was the elders of those groups that were doing the day-to-day and the teaching and all that stuff. Yeah, they were taking care of the discipleship and the meeting with people and sitting down and breaking open the book and studying and trying to figure.

out, okay, what's next to help us grow and mature? Because in its simplest form of Christianity, is helping people become more like Christ. I mean, that's the simplest thing about it. You know, if you read in the book of James, if anyone, this is 126 in James 1, if anyone considers himself religious, yet does not keep a tight rain on his tongue,

he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. You have to control your mouth. And filth does not ever need to be coming forth from your mouth. It's a process. You first come to Jesus. She said, well, oh, oh, well, you profanity, yeah, yeah. But that's a pretty rough statement there. Control your mouth.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this. To look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Well, if you just look at that, you say, you know what? That's about what it amounts to. Right. It's just your daily walk. You get up in the morning.

You do good. You do what's right. You reach out to your neighbor, whether they're poor or whatever, homeless. Just look after them, help them out. And just that's the way you roll. A lot of people say, well, you know what? We're looking for the deeper truths of the Bible. I said, that's what the deeper truths of the Bible is.

That's what they are. That's right. Don't get polluted by the world. reach out to widders and offers and help them out right well i think people simple but profound there was an example yesterday a young guy came up and was talking to me about his father-in-law and he was like you know we got a we got to get him plugged back in and doing more things here you know like and as we were talking it just it took me back because i'm not there day to day as much as i used to be and it's like a misunderstanding like in other words you can't be a faithful christian unless you've got a

job connected to the church itself. You know, driving a van to it. And look, I appreciate the servants. Mike, you and I spent most of our lives in ministry. But it's not about that. That's good. But that's not what, that's not living the life we're talking about. You can't create.

Because that's what he was asking me. He was saying, what can we do to create a job? To make him get connected somehow. Christianity is Monday through Saturday. That's right. That's the critical part of one's walk with Jesus. If you ever get it down to a couple of hours a week that you report in and then you leave.

You said, what about Monday through Saturday? What are you up to then? How do you leave your life out there? We need to get that into people's heads more and more. Well, what Phil said in James, basically, he says, Christianity's taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. Yep. That's your widows and your orphans.

Which, by the way, that's, I don't know of a stronger pro-life statement. Exactly. You're taking care of widows and orphans. That is correct. then and then keep yourself from being influenced and impacted by the worldliness around you. It's simple, but it's not easy. No, it's not easy. Yeah, and you're right.

That's the difference. People say, well, that's too easy. No, it's hard. It's hard because we're submitting our whole lives to Christ. But it is simple. It is. And you're right, Dad, these people that they want these mountain top experiences. And I tell people all the time, there have been people that have removed

themselves and went and lived in a monastery somewhere on a mountain trying to find out the deeper truths and you can't remove yourself out of the whole world and remember religion that god our father accepts as pure and faultless yeah you say man he just narrs it down now he said this thing's not complicated at all right i walked into the building yesterday i always going way early when I'm preaching especially and so I don't know it's probably 615 6.30 in the morning and I go into the building and I turn a light on I see this girl walking down the hallway at the church building and she stops and she's got a blanket with her and she just starts saying oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I said well what are you sorry for you know well I know I'm not supposed

to be I said well did you get out of the cold last night I mean you didn't have a place to go She said, no. I said, you found a door open? Of course, you found a door open? I said, do you get a place to lay down? Yeah. I said, well, good. I'm glad you did.

I'm not calling the cops on you. Let me show you a room over here where it's got a couch in there and a bathroom. And there you can clean up and lay down and get some rest. And let's visit a little bit more about your life. What got you here to a yard? So I had a good visit for a little bit. And I don't know. I think she showed back up this morning after I left.

some of the other brothers and sisters are talking to her. But I told her, look, everybody's just one diagnosis or disaster away from needing other people in your life. And it doesn't take much, and that could be me needing a place to stay. It's a little thing.

We need to major more than the little things. Yeah, or just like that, being open to people. Let's take a break. Yeah, and I think that's it. I mean, it's having a heart that there would have been someplace she would have done the same thing somewhere,

and whoever that was would have run her out of there. What are you doing in here? You know, get out of here. You know, how did you get in here? And the very idea, I mean, it's just a building. It's just a building. Who was the old guy that he was kind of, he was a big dog preacher from somewhere.

He had dressed up like a homeless guy and he slipped in at a speaking engagement. Yeah. And he would just see how he was treated. He said a lot of time he even get in the door. And then he didn't even go back. He had to tell them, look, I'm the ones going to preach to you tonight. That's right. Yeah, that's...

We said it a lot there, watch we row. We love everybody. Yep. Yeah. And I think that's, it sounds almost too simple, but that's how you approach. I think that's why our Celebrate Recovery Ministry does what it does. Yep. Takes anybody and everybody.

And it don't matter what you look like, where you come from, this is, this, God invites everybody. This is, we want everybody. We said before, Mike, that we've, one of my favorite things. I've heard people saying there have been many that have said it in our community is that, you know, they had some troubled kid, some kid that can't kick the drugs, whatever. Well, you know, get them over there to that White's Ferry Road Church because they'll take anybody. And I was like, that's my favorite line about our community of believers is that we'll take anybody. And that's true.

I mean, it's like they used to say about dad, they would say back in the old days, we'll get them out to feel. Because you were like the last outpost, Dad. Maybe Phil and do something with him. Because, you know, basically they were saying you turned your life around, you know. And that's it. I've always thought what I wanted to do is a guy who was at our church was since I came home to church because I was a prodigal and came back, first to dad's home and then to our community, that I wanted a place that I always felt like you could come home, you know, that you would be welcomed. and that somebody would meet you and welcome you, just like you did with that woman.

And so that's the atmosphere that I would want in a church to be, is to have that kind of mindset. You know, we have, of course, at our church, we have the, you know, our response time has been kind of special for us, Al, for a long time. That basically it's an opportunity for people to get prayers, to repent, to be baptized, to whatever their need is. but we always tell people you never come alone. You walk down that aisle, you can need help, then the brothers and sisters are going to rally around you and give you some help. And they did it yesterday.

There was a guy who came forward, who's having a tough time, and there was five or six brothers surrounding him, praying for him, you know, just saying we're here to help you, which is a blessing. I love that. It's always been that way,

which is cool. We wouldn't talk a little bit today, kind of pick up where we left off from the last podcast, because we've been talking Mike and I have been preaching primarily in our church out of where we are in John. We're right in the same area in our preaching. So we're doing a lot of this study together, which has been really good for me. Because I get to, Mike preached yesterday, fantastic sermon, which hopefully we'll have some time to get into on the podcast today.

Jason is preached at once in one. The dad works across the river at a plant we have over there. And we've talked about that before. where it's a primarily African-American church. But it's going really great. A lot of visitors come every week. I mean, it's been great. You baptized somebody baptized a couple times?

Three yesterday. Which is fantastic. So there's a lot of good stuff going on out of this context. And we've been talking about, you know, on the podcast, the Book of John, because we're basically saying, as dad said early on, what's wrong with Jesus? Why can't we make a case for Jesus, right? I mean, you look at it. You see all the problems in the world.

And we know what would solve every single one of them, is if all these, the racial unrest, the social justice, all the things you see could be solved in Christ. Every single one. Yeah, and people are just, for whatever reason, they're blinded to the simplicity of that answer. But when you look at the book of John, he says that John was written and these specific things John did

so that people could see who Jesus. Jesus is, and by believing in him, find eternal life. Right. So that's the purpose of the whole book. It's interesting to me that he starts the book with creation. Yep. In the beginning was the Word, words with God, Word was God. Word became flesh.

114, where Jesus basically pitched his tent with us for a while. He was life, and he was life. Yeah. And so then when you get down to the crucifixion, which I think you guys have already been talking about, that Jesus on, On the sixth day of the week, he dies. On the seventh day of the week, he rests.

And on the first day of the week, newness all over at the resurrection. It almost echoes the creation story all over again. I hadn't thought about that. Well, and starting in Matthew 16, what's amazing, and a lot of people, they don't realize that Jesus repeatedly,

said, for that time on, this is Matthew 16. Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hand of the elder, chief priests, and teachers of the law, that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Matthew recorded that over and over, and so did Mark and Luke. when he gets to Jesus when I'm lifted up, you know, by this, he meant the kind of death and all of his disciples. I guess every time he would tell him that, it is written what the prophet said about me, you know, like Isaiah 53, like a root out of dry ground. They pierced him for our, you know, he was pierced for our iniquities.

So it's not like he was surprised when he finally gets to where we are in the book of John. when Peter preached about Jesus, he said, by God set purpose in Acts 2. He said, and for knowledge. This was all planned out in advance. Nothing was going to stop it. The sins of the world would be removed, and they would have the opportunity to be raised from the dead.

And he did it all. What's amazing is it took about four or five thousand years to get him here. You know, the Prophet Jesus is coming. Once he arrived, he actually pulled it all off in three days. That's right. Solved the sin problem of the world and physical death problem that they have in three days. You're like, oh, no, world could somebody ever pull that off?

It was crazy. I don't believe you could have dreamed it up. No. No, you couldn't make it up. No. They didn't realize it even though they're here in and being with him three years. Yeah. Because after he does die, the disciples retreat back to a house,

and they're scared. They hit the road. Yeah. And they're like, so they're not expecting him to be raised from the dead, even though he, even though he said he's going to be. I guess every time he would tell him about, Al, I guess they would, you know, Peter would look at John and they'd look at each other like, what do he say? He said, he said he's going to die, be buried and raised from the dead.

That's what he said. But evidently, Kellett, it was like, just kind of like, shooh, right over your head. Like, I heard what he said. Well, John says it. John says it in 20, verse 8. When the other disciple, that was John, who reached the tomb first, him and Peter run to the tomb. John outruns him. He looks inside. Peter comes up running and just goes on in.

And they look in and they see it. And John says he saw him believed. And then parentheses, he said, they still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the death. And then they run back to the house like they're disappointed because they don't know what's going to happen now until he actually appears to him. Somewhere between there and I don't know how much exactly how much time passed from his death till they gathered up in Jerusalem and the story unfolds about the kingdom being established. I don't know how long it was, but it was a long. Yeah, 50, 49 days there. Something changed their minds.

I guess once they saw him and touched him, like Thomas and everybody said, and he's eating fish with him, you know, somewhere and there, they said, man, this is what he was talking about. He said, you'd think about that, Al. That would be a jump up and down experience there. And they kind of struggle that though, Thomas. Let's take another break. I'm doing some prep for this Sunday sermon, which I'm kind of picking up where Mike left off yesterday. and in Luke 24, it was another one of those instances, and it actually happens before he appears to the group in the room. You know, Jesus just shows up in between these two disciples, two of them, Cleopis and another one.

That's right. And they're walking down the road, but it says they couldn't recognize him. And it's funny because Mark said it this way, he kept them from recognizing him. Yeah. So he's doing stuff with this glorified body now. he's a shape shifter or something. I mean, I can't wait to find out what this,

because we're going to be like him one day. So he's walking along, but he asked him, he says, well, what's your boys talking about? And they were like, well, are you some kind of visitor to Jerusalem? I mean, if you missed out on what's been going on around here? And he said, well, what? I love it because he wanted

to hear what they were thinking. So then they started into it. Well, they missed the whole boat. They were like, he was a prophet. We thought he was going to redeem Israel. You know, they're giving the feedback, you know, and then he's like, have you, have y'all not, do you not understand it? See, he went from that moment, he went back to Moses and all the Old Testament scriptures about himself and explained it to him again. So then he was, he kept walking. He act like he was just

going to walk away, you know, and they were like, well, would you come eat with us? I mean, we want to hear some more about this. They still don't know it's him. They sit down at the table. They're thinking he's going to spend the night. They break bread. As soon as he breaks the bread, all of a sudden, they look up and it's him. And then it said he disappeared. I mean, vanished from the table. And so I've been reading that. I thought, man, first of all, look at the cool stuff he could do. You know what I'm saying?

He didn't do any of that stuff before. I don't know if that was the change for now these inner glorified bodies or what, you know. How Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread, but they still thought he was a ghost. That's right. You know, they thought he was a ghost. And he said, ghost, a ghost doesn't have. flesh and bones as you see I have. There was something about he looked.

He was very similar, but I guess there was a difference. Well, he still had the scars too. Yeah. Then he quotes what was written. He opened their mind so they could under the, he told them, look, this is what it's written. That's why it's so critical when people start asking questions. Just give them what's written. Give them what's written.

This is what's written. The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day. Repentance and forgiveness of sins. to be preached in the name of all nations beginning in Jerusalem. We're living proofile. We're 2,000 years or so since that time. Right. We are still doing precisely what they did.

Jesus died, was buried and raised from the death. First importance. And you would think at a time like, this always gets to me, a time like Christmas. I mean, Christmas is right here on us. That ought to be a time when people are more conscious, at least it seems to be. They're more conscious of at least the birth of Christ.

I'm telling you. But you think about his birth, light busted into the darkness of night when he was born. When he dies, just the opposite happened. In the middle of the day, darkness comes when he's on the cross for three hours. Yep. And darkness comes into the middle of light. Yeah. And then out of that, of course, the light of the world comes out of the tomb.

And then it's on then with getting the God. in the world. It is the wildest story I've ever read, but here's the, here's the, the kicker. I believe it. I believe it. Right. Well, and you're right, Mike. That's interesting because the, so it goes dark.

And you remember he told them when they showed up to take him. He told that crowd of people. He said, this is your hour when darkness rains. Remember when he said that? And so what was about to happen was the darkest time in human. history forever. And you're right, it's like in that moment of his death. I mean, literally it was dark. And that's right before he, you know, said it was the word. Satan thinks he's done something marvelous. He thinks he's won. That's right. And we talked about it on a podcast. He thought he had

killed God. Basically, we're done with him. Yes, exactly right. And then what was so significant about it was Satan knew he had never sin because he tempted him personally to try to get him to, you know, listen to him. He told him, he said, bow the knee to me, and I'll give you all the kingdoms of the world. And Jesus says, I worship the Lord, my God, and him only was his answer. And he already was the king. Really, the cross was that enthronement of the king of kings, which was written on the sign on the cross. That's right. The king of the Jews.

They didn't like what was written. The Jews tried to get him to say, no, it's just said that he is. But Pilate didn't. He actually wrote, he's the king. king of the Jews. Peter reminded them they murdered him thinking they were rid of him, but it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. And when that began to sink in, some of the ones who were there in Acts chapter 2, the Jews moreover the world, they were the ones who were hollering crucified. That's right. All of a sudden, they hear, by the way, when y'all murdered him,

his death removed sins like murder, like what you just did. That's why his final words were forgive him and it was the way they could be saved. Can you imagine what they felt when they said, ah, we thought we'd be getting rid of him, but his death's going to save us and give us eternal life? Do you just think about a story like that, Al? That's a, that's a barn burner there. Oh, man. Well, let's talk about that because I wanted to talk some today about the statements he made, and you just mentioned one of them, because he said basically had seven statements that are recorded throughout the four gospels. And one of them, we talked about one last time,

but the one you just mentioned, Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do. And that comes out of the, in Matthew 2742, you remember they said he saved themselves. I mean, he saved others, but he can't save himself.

That was that when they were looking at him, they were like, look at this poor sack. You know, he claimed that he could, you know, save other people, but look at him hanging on the cross. Can't him save himself? Now, you think about the power, that statement in the middle of his dying physically dying he's a human being he's experiencing this

thing yet his thought is about the people that are committing the crime that he desires them to be forgiven of this and they're insulting him in the moment yeah you know that's an insult well you could save others but you can't save yourself i mean he was insulted and dying and yet you're right and it was a prayer he says father yeah forgive them they don't know what they do it. Boy, he got that right. They did not know what they were doing. They really didn't. So let's take another break. But I was thinking about this, Mike, you know, I've heard people say this before. We've had some friends of ours that kind of came up with this idea that forgiveness doesn't have to be extended or offered if people don't ask for it. Have you heard this for

where they're like, you know, in other words, even from God, it has to be asked for it to receive. but I look at this passage, as well as several others where Jesus would heal people, which is what they were asking for, but then he would say, you're forgiven of your sins. Well, they never asked about that, but he was trying to tell them that's more important than you can walk now. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know what happened there in the hearts of those people. Do you think they were all just instantly forgiven? I mean, who knows?

You know, or like Dad said, are they the ones that? that were there. Some of the, you know, some of them were. In Acts 2. All over some of them, then recognize that,

you know. Maybe that was the point of them. He's definitely by the fact he's dying, he's making forgiveness available to them. It's not just a verbal thing. That's right. It's his death that's making it available. Well,

I've had a lot of situations, and Lisa and I experienced it ourselves. You know, when our book, we talk about her being molested as a child. And it caused all kinds of problems. as you can imagine for her, for us, for relationships, and it almost wrecked our marriage.

But we just never had really understood how to deal with that. Well, so when we were the wonderful counselor, and one day in one of our sessions, we came in and sat down where there was a chair sitting there that wasn't normally there. And so we start, you know, we pray, we talk about, she's giving us stuff to talk about. And we wound up having that person in that chair to forgive.

because both of us had held on to so much stuff for so long, and we didn't want to have a relationship with this person. I don't want him around my family, but we needed to release his hold of us. And I think that's one of the things about forgiveness. A lot of times people have stuff in their past. Maybe someone has died, and you had this bad relationship,

one of your parents or your kid or something. How do you get past that? The only thing you can do is release that to God and offer forgiveness. And that's what I see in this moment with Jesus. This is what he's saying. You want to have a heart that even if people wrong you, that you can extend forgiveness and the capacity to be able to do that. I don't think, it's hard to do without understanding Christ, you know.

Yeah, to forgive someone that has just done something terrible to you. Jesus knew that better than anybody right there. That's right. That's right. Because he never sin. He never sinned. Never treated anybody bad. Never made a mistake toward the relationship.

and yet there they are how in for his death. That's exactly right. But to answer your question, they would have to come to repentance. Sure. Before they could be forgiven. This is what is written that Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day

and then this, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations beginning in Jerusalem. So if you, if you don't repent, you're still shaking your fist at him, and they thought they were getting rid of him. Well, then people's hearts, they say, no. Right.

No, you know, I'm not bowing my need to anyone, including God. My point is, our hearts need to be like Jesus' heart was. If someone wrongs us, our first capacity, our first instinct should be, I want to extend forgiveness. Yeah. Now, that doesn't mean, like this person I mentioned, I don't want a relationship with this person. But people hold

oh hurts and wounds onto people. And if you don't release that, you're going to live in a lot of bitterness. Not only do you not forgive them, most of the time you can't forgive yourself. That's right. Which is usually the hardest one.

You can't practice it one way. You can't practice it back towards you either. Yeah, hate mail comes my way from time to time. Every once in a while they show me one of them. You know, your mother, they're cussing me. And someone says, what do you do about that? I said, I don't hold it against them. I just go on, give a little time. They may get off that. That's right. So, yeah, you just, it goes right off your back.

I take it as a badge of honor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because we say Jesus was persecuted, so shall we be, right? So, so you mentioned repentance. The next statement I want to do is, today you will be with me in paradise, which is what he says to one of the two thieves. Remember, one guy is like, oh, this guy's, you know, nothing. Well, actually, they're both doing that at the beginning. Right. They're both sneering and mocking him. And then for whatever the reason, I think it's when he hears Jesus say, Father, forgive them.

When that thief hears him say that toward that group, he starts looking at him. And he's already heard something about him being king because he says, remember me in your kingdom. Yeah. When you come into your kingdom, Luke 23. He has a change of heart. I mean, and Jesus says he's going to.

Yeah. What a great thing to hear from the voice of Christ. I'm telling you. about your eternal destiny. Hey, today you'll be with me. I'm taking that. Hey, that's cutting it pretty close. And then also, I love the idea.

You're strung up on a cross yourself, and you're looking over there, and you're looking over there. But remember me over here. I'm sitting here. I'm hanging right beside you. But look at his faith, because Jesus is hanging right there with him. It's obvious they're all going to die today. and he looks over and says, okay, when you come into your kingdom, when was that going to happen?

Well, he heard John or somebody. He figured it out somehow. He knew that it was going to be post this guy dying. Now, that takes some faith right there, which is pretty amazing. By the way, that's a strong text to let you know that the kingdom did come back then. That's right. You sure what I'm saying? Yeah.

This thousand years and the features, you know, it's not. And also, I think it also, we've talked about this before. there's some text about, I know some people in Ephesians have talked to, and Peter, about Jesus going into hell, you know, and all this stuff from there. He was whatever. But to me, this is a pretty clear picture that he hung out with whatever. He was calling paradise. He said today that we're going to be there. So, you know, wherever your spirit goes, however that works, course Jesus came back, you know, was the difference in him. The other old boy didn't. But at the same time, he got in the kingdom, you know, because he had faith. And you couldn't have talked to him in the

coming back once he's there. That's exactly right, which is what we always say. So here's another one. Let's take a break. Let's behold your son. Some behold your mother. And that's in our John text that we've been talking about. And he's talking to the Apostle John and Mary, his mother, when he says that. And so I think I've always thought that part of that was the idea that, you know, we're assuming since we don't read anything about Joseph that he's gone. So she's a widow. we assume. And now Jesus is fixing to be gone.

And so he's wanting somebody to take care of his widow mom. Because like we talked about in this culture, especially, a widow didn't have, I mean, you're in a bad spot. You don't have a man take care of you in this culture. Now, he did have some brothers. But it ain't like Jesus been going around making money. That's right. He didn't even have a place to lay.

But you know, Mary probably when he was a boy, and he deserted him when they were in there traveling, and they look for him, you know, go back and trying to figure out where he was when they went in. He was talking to all these Jewish scholars, I mean, sparring with them. But since Mary, you know, they said, what are you doing? He's like, well, I'm doing my father's business here. A little old kid talking about these brains, Bible brains.

But it says, Mary, from that day on, she cherished that in her heart because if you got your son, you're about 10 years old, sitting in there. But she thought something about him. I mean, think about it. She pondered these things in their hearts. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's another text where she did that, too.

There's a couple times where it says she did that. And you know what I love about it is Jesus again. I mean, she knew all the time he's the one. Yeah. And what was to me awesome about it is that Jesus shows her respect as his mother. And it shows his humanity. I mean, Jesus came. This is his mom. She had him and she probably knew this is, this is how it's going to end. You know, because you know good West, she heard somebody say, well, he said he's going to die. Right. And three days be raised from

the dead. She's like, ooh, yeah, that'd be pretty tough on a mom. I thought that's one of the things that Gibson captured so powerfully in the passion was his relationship with Mary. And you I'm not about with any mother. It's just a 33-year-old son. That's your son there. It's going through this, you know. It'd be terrible. Yeah.

And the respect and love he had for his mom. Yeah. I thought, well, there's a whole, there's a whole lesson there our culture needs to hear right now. Yes, sir. By how to treat your parents and how to honor them and take care of them. And I love it that he basically calling his best friend to be the one to take care of her. And he does. He takes her into his home.

We remember there was some issues between Jesus and his family, the brothers and stuff, throughout. Because remember one time they were trying to do a PR thing with him. If you're going to be a public figure, you need to go do this. I don't think he trusted them as much as he trusted. That is quite the statement. He looks at his mother, woman, behold your son. Yeah. Like, look at me.

Yeah, right. I love it. And basically, he's making him a blood brother is what happens. That brings tears to my eyes. That's very powerful. You want a powerful relationship, though, that is, to know that at your death, that you can put the care of someone that you, like your mom, into somebody else's hands and you can know it to be okay.

Yeah. That's a good thing to know. That's a great relationship. You and I have been at a lot of deathbeds with as many years as we've been in ministry. And I can safely say that almost every time when a person is drunk, near to death, if they still have some awareness, they're thinking about family. They're thinking about taking care of the wife, the kids. I mean, we've seen, when we've had some great brothers and sisters that have become part

of the cloud of witnesses, right? Oh, yeah. But it's at that moment where you do think about family. You know, you want them to be taken care of. You don't want them to carry on the legacy that, you know, especially as believers. And you want things to be right with your family. That's exactly right. Yeah, which should be.

What about, so he said, I thirst in John 1928. which, and then, of course, they give him the, they put it in some vinegar, which I've always read, Mike, that that was. Psalm 69, right? Yeah, it's a. Psalm 69, 21. It's a fulfillment of a prophecy. Yeah.

They also gave me gall for my food and for my thirst. They gave me vinegar to drink. And so that was high in the world, would the psalmist know that? All those years ago, right? And here was the moment. It was kind of like a pain reliever maybe, was kind of the idea. That's what they say that the wine or vinegar on the hyssop deal that was on the stick would help deaden the pain.

And so that's why they offered, but he refused it. He didn't take it, which was interesting, although he said he was thirsty. Of course, the last two statements, it is finished in John 1930, which is really a powerful statement because he's right at the moment of death. and so obviously his life was about to be finished but I think obviously he went way more than that I mean he's talking about the whole plan what you talked about earlier it this is what I came here to do and so I just think that moment that he says that you know this is as much for God whoever was listening for us today I mean in the moment of death the whole plan it's all done

it's in it's just one word in the Greek it's just one word and it's just one word and it just means complete. It's completed, finished, paid for, all those terms at different ways it was used. But it's real funny because some people look at the cross almost like, okay, he had to die and God, because God was angry at sin and he had to punish it. I get that perspective. But it's really more about that God is really displaying his love for mankind. it's really where heaven touches earth.

I mean, it's the love of heaven on an undeserving earth that happens. Which is Ephesians 1. In love, that was the plan before the creation of the world. So we've talked about this before, before we even made the universe. We mentioned God made Him to be sin for us so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. So that's what was going on at that moment. but you look at it and you say, oh, whew, I'm just thinking of the ramifications of what he did for that act. And every Jew got it.

It was the Passover. They all knew that the blood of a lamb had to be shed at the Passover. And so not only did it bring up when he's the lamb of God and they see his blood shed, it brings up all that message, but it also brings up the message of the Exodus. that there's the leverage through this sacrifice and that was the whole in John 1931 through 37 he was

pierced normally they come and they break their legs because then they can't breathe anymore they can't you know so that's how they kill them and I assume that's what happened to the two thieves but in Jesus' case you know he's already said all this stuff he's dead the guy recognized that they don't break his legs

and they just run a spear in his side but that fulfilled a bunch of prophecies and Exodus 12 and Numbers 9. And what the thing was there was you had a Passover lamb. And God said, don't break any of the bones in the lamb. And that's exactly the prophecy they were pointing toward. Jesus, he is the Passover lamb. And every one of those Pharisees that was after his high at the whole time,

they instantly knew that prophecy had been fulfilled. They got it. They didn't miss it. They knew. They knew. Psalm 34, 20, Zachary 12, 10, all those said he was pierced for us. And the last thing I want to mention, because we're almost out of time, is that when he said, Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit.

In Luke 23, you can see that in our Matthew 27. In that moment, when he said that, and he dies, that the temple in between the Holy of Holies and the most holy place was ripped in half. And the earth shook. I mean, it was a moment when this happened on the whole earth. I mean, we had already had this eclipse or whatever was going on with the darkness. And so in that moment, God was saying, that's it. Now there's access to me. And you don't go through a temple.

You don't go through a little unspotted lamb. Matter of fact, he destroyed the very way that you could prove your Jewish heritage to try to say I'm justified by Abraham. That's right. When he tore the temple thing down, when that thing come crashing, all of a sudden, you realize I can't be right by God by. my physical birth. It's got to be by a new birth. It's a lot about Jesus giving us access to the father. That's right. The whole book of Hebrews. Yep. Access, access. Right. You know, it's interesting, Mike. I always wondered did they try to put another one back up because, you know, they tried to keep it going until

80-70. So I wonder if somebody had to come in there and try to sew that thing back together. But God was like, that's over. That's done. That's not going to happen anymore. Pretty good stuff. Thanks, Mike, for being here today. Oh, it's been fun. Look, I appreciate what the program does, the podcast, one for our church, but more importantly, just getting people back to reading the Bible. I encourage all your listeners out to, look, just open your Bible, spend some time every day, reading God's Word. It has, he made us, he knows best how we ought to function. That's right. So look at it, and that's where you find your guidance. Don't get caught up too much in everything going on in the culture. Our, our, our,

confidence is in this. You have faith over fear. You have peace over panic and you have health over harm. And that'll help you in the things that we kind of are struggling with our own culture. I bet you. You know, it's a true preacher when he has three points. And there's good alliteration in there too. And I didn't even pass the hat. And he didn't even have notes, which is really good. So if you want to check out more of my Mike, if it was the first time you've heard about him, you can go to WFRChurch.org. And Mike and I, our sermons are on there. And then Mike has a thing called Peak of the Week, which is some really good stuff.

Well, I couldn't partner with a better guy preaching. It's fun. I said, Mike Callet is one of the best men I know. And I stand by that, Mike. So thanks for coming into the lair. Oh, thanks, brother. It's been great. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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