Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 196 | Phil's Go-To Prayer, What We're Up Against in Our Culture, and Jase's Taylor Swift Theory

Episode Date: December 13, 2020

Phil explains why the Robertsons speak so freely about their past mistakes and shares the prayer he says more often these days. Jase receives a powerful update after saying a prayer in Kansas and offers a theory about Taylor Swift's new album. Phil, Jase, Al, and Zach also discuss where we're at as a culture, the new "science" that rejects objective truth, and the likelihood of "Unashamed" getting censored or canceled for its focus on the truth. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, I'm back. I know y'all miss me. We have Al and Zach. I guess they're doing some remodeling. For those of you listening, they look like they found a house somewhere that they're going to... Well, I'm in North Carolina, visited Zach, and so he said, I got this new podcast studio place to do. And I said, well, great. And we're like in an abandoned warehouse outside. of town somewhere. It's just the oldest building. It's the oldest building in Black Mountain. You may hear a train, which, which. So you know, Zach is so tight, Jay's that he squeaks when he

walks. So he's not going to spend a bunch of money on the setup. No, it's dirt cheap. It's dirt cheap. I know. I just sold him my land cruiser for half of what it's worse. So I got Zach. You got Zach. Well, if you hear a heavy, machine and you look up and see a ball, a huge ball headed toward you, run. I'm going to need context. I'm just saying that building that you're in, it looks like it's fixed to be demolished at any moment. No, it's got, it's got history, Jace.

It's history. Oh, actually, it's full of lawyers and all that. It's one of these old restored deals. You know, Zach's up here nowadays. He's up there running around with these liberals in North Carolina. Is there green grass in front of it in any direction? No. It doesn't have a yard.

It's all concrete. No, we get some green gas back there. It's right on a train track. Will you see if I can metal to take that? Oh, yeah, I'll ask the landlord. For sure. About two more years, that's going to be a left winger. I can tell that from being up here.

I hope that was a joke. You wait. So what I was going to ask is, what did y'all do while I was gone? because what how many podcasts? Yeah, so you missed a couple of podcasts. So we had one Mike Kellett Esquire, your old youth pastor, filling in your chair.

Really? Oh yeah. How'd that go? Well, it went really well. Dad, did you think it went well? I thought it went smooth. Well, did y'all have the words on the screen so people could understand what he was saying?

Well, he never got in like preacher mode like he does at the church, But he did have some good stuff. But I told him, I said, well, look, you're going to be sitting in Jay's chair, so you're going to tend to want to interrupt dad on a consistent basis and be super opinionated about everything. So I said, did you do that? He did not. Oh, well, that's going to be a disaster. So we need, y'all need to apologize for that.

And then the second one, Jase, we had that you were gone. We had mom and Lisa. Lisa made her first entrance into the lair. And we had a really. good discussion. It was super intimate. Like we talked about the comparisons of like mom and dad's marriage and mine and Lisa's kind of all the trouble we had. And when you say super intimate, did y'all get into like bedroom talk? Well, it wasn't quite that intimate. But it was, I don't know, it just had a, it had a feel for our podcast that's never been there. So it's be really interesting. Now it makes me

want to bring Missy in sometimes. So I was saying maybe, maybe me and you can bring in Missy and Lisa sometime into the layer. For those who are just watching, if you're listening, you're not going to get this, but you can get a Zoom on this shot. My response to that is, beer in the headlight.

If you're just listening, we can let your imagination go. It was a treatise on the sins of the human race, we being humans, we talked freely about the mistakes of the past. that Jesus, fortunate for us, canceled the written code on our behalf and put us under grace instead of law. That pretty well was, wouldn't you say, Al?

Yeah, and it was really good. I mean, you know, I never know what to expect. Are we going to go down memory lane? Are we going to tell J stories, you know, whatever? But it really just wound up quickly getting to what Dad just said. And it was, I thought, really good just about how human beings are going to mess up. and you've got to have grace and you've got to have forgiveness to be able to move past stuff. So, and we just kind of...

There is a constant that I have observed from reading the scriptures. And the constant is, Jase, when a human being knows that he has been forgiven or she has been forgiven, the sins are blotted out. Blessed is the person who's sin, the Lord, never count against them at Romans 4. Now you read that, you say, hmm, the constant is people who know they're under grace and have been forgiven, Al, tend to speak more freely about their past sins, like the Apostle Paul. He said, I was a blasphemer, you know, a persecutor, and, you know, I lost my way, and I was a murderer. So he went through the list and you said, well, why would he

bring that up because he knew he had been forgiven. People who don't realize or appreciate the fact that they've been forgiven. They should, they don't talk freely about their sins. They're not sure whether they're on the safe side or not. I agree 100%. Would you say that's a constant? I think so. You know, what we're going to talk about today, Joseph of, how do you say that, Arimathea? Arimathea. And Nicodemus, I think were in this camp where they were secret disciples, which is frowned upon. They were fearful of their colleagues. Yeah.

But one of the things that you just brought up, I think they had in common is that, and I think it was because of the cross, one of the things that happens when you embrace the cross or experienced the cross, which they did literally physically watching it. is that your your secrets become known. They're brought out into the light. Once you kind of attach the fact that this happened in a public way for my sins, then your secret sins become known because you're like, yep, I'm a center. That's why when some people would ask, why these people seem to be so upfront and just they freely speak of their passion.

transgressions, why would they be so easily discussed among them? It's because we know we've been forgiven of them. That way you can say, because of the cross, I can now freely talk about what would have killed me eternally if I'd have just stayed on that course. God forgave me. The cross becomes the point at which it happened. The blood flowed from the Lord, God in flesh, You're like, you know. That was a hard concept for my kids to get, you know, whenever you go through battles with your kids and because we all were teenagers. Well, once we came to a in Jesus resolution to their shock,

they were like, because, you know, I speak. And they're like, well, I didn't know. You were going to talk about my problems in front of hundreds of people. I'm like, oh, no, that's what happens. That's what we do. And it's way easier to talk about your sins. than mine. I love that.

Just saying you can't hide that that concealment, which becomes worse than the actual sin, because then it just beats you up. Once you get it out there and you put it on the cross, Jesus's cross, you know, we're not ashamed of that fact. Yep, we sin and he forgave us, and now we're going to use that to help you.

And we're jumping up and down, basically, in a spiritual sense, God has done through Jesus. We're like, if he can forgive me, can forgive you. But look, when you're trying to consider it. You remember that picture in Luke 7 where Jesus is at Simon the Pharisees house and the woman is there and she's down at his feet and she's just pouring it out. You know, she's a sinful woman. Everybody in town knows it. But she's just like, she's so desperate that she would just be laying there at Jesus' feet, you know, weeping over him and drying his feet with her hair. And you remember when Simon just had that judgmental thought like, this guy was really a private,

he wouldn't be letting this one. I mean, he was offended by this woman just pouring herself out at the feet of Jesus. And you remember what he said? He said, to those who had been forgiven much, they will love much. But to those who have been forgiven little, they will love little. I mean, to me, that's the clear shot of what y'all were just talking about. You see a clear picture. Kind of a scary thought.

Well, it's embarrassing, too, for this guy to come up with something. in front of Jesus, that's the exact opposite of what it should be. You know, we all do that even in our lives and in our theology, you know, when it hits us. But I can't imagine being right there in front of Jesus saying, you know, look at this, you know, this woman. I mean, basically calling her an idiot without a sad. She's not worth it. You're talking I missed it. And he's like, no, you're the one that missed it, you idiot.

But he didn't say that. Well, he kind of did, though, because he called him out. You know, and all the stuff he didn't do as a host. Like, he basically wanted Jesus there as a show pony because everybody had been talking about the rabbi. He didn't care about Jesus. He didn't wash his feet. He didn't give him, you know, give him a kiss.

And so he compared the way Simon mistreated him to way this woman was just pouring out our love for him. So he did call him an idiot. Yeah. One of the prayers. And a loving way. One of my prayers that's been coming up more and more and more and more, the old I get at 74, my head goes on the pillow at night and without stretching for what am I going to say to

God tonight as I put my head on this pillow. What keeps coming up is thank you for saving a sinful, sorry, low-down scumb bag like me. I said, I hope I serve you well. I'm trying, help me do that, but I basically found myself every night when my head goes down, Jase. I'm like, you know, I think it's a good point, Phil, because I do the same thing. And it's like now as a follower and experience of Jesus, which we all are here, the things we do now in secret that are really cool

are those moments when you're laying in your bed and you're just thinking. And I gave a reference to those guys of that podcast. just thinking and all of a sudden you think that you think you're having this moment that seems like it's in secret because you're by yourself and you're just thinking but you know God is real and you're like man thank you for forgiving me yep I'm amazed it helps me when I read about the apostle Paul elaborating on his past sins you know blasphemer you know, a persecutor, you know, he killed the sons and daughters of God. They lived on.

They would show. And is admitting it and writing it for people to read for 2,000 years. And he said, he chose me. He said, I am the worst. Well, I was my head when it's on the pillow. I said, I don't know. I think I was worse. I mean, I'm looking at it.

I said, who can be the worst out of all this? Then you say, I'm glad you look down upon me and others. And we're so full of grace that you said, no, my, my, my. But it's sufficient. But you want to be admitting your mistakes in public and secretly thinking Jesus, then denying your mistake or acting like something you're not in public. And then secretly saying, how am I going to get out of this? What can I do to cover this up?

Yeah, to me, that's the contrast. Yeah. Well, and look, we don't typically think. think about, like Dad's talking about, we tend to think about the worst as being all the sins that have impacted us. We talk about drunkenness and drugs and not being the person you should be. But, you know, Paul was not like that at all. I mean, he was a straight arrow legal eagle. And when you read it as like all of the things he says about himself, Hebrew, a Hebrew, Pharisee of Pharisees, I mean, strict legalism about the law. But he said he was the worst. So here was a guy,

other people would look at, just like the disciples. Trained by old Gabriel, whatever his name. Gamal. Gamal. He was trained by him, and he was a super duper, you know, Oh, he was a lawkeeper. Yeah, the upper crust. Yep.

I think we all have some justification in there. I mean, even in our world today, it's whether it's science or, you know, because I thought about, you know, while y'all were doing the podcast, I went to Kansas and duck on it. It was kind of my, I do that every year. Hey, Jay's. Jay's. Yes.

Let's take a quick break. But one of the things I did in the past week is I got a call from a buddy who had a colonel that he was taking duck hunting who doctors had not given him long to live. I think I shared this story, maybe a few podcasts, that we were going to do it. And so we did it. And his unit, a lot of the members of his unit came on the duck hunt. and it was a big gathering there. And, well, they invited me to say a prayer for him.

And I did. I didn't sure code anything. I was like, look, a lot of people we pray for, you know, they're healed. And we don't, you know, call the media and say, hey, God healed this guy. We just think he healed him and we move on. It's encouraging. I was like, but we've had also, you know, times where we pray for, you know, a kid with cancer or whatever, and they die. I said, so I'm going to be a straight shooter to you.

And I kind of shared Jesus, the good news of Jesus, to the whole crowd. Because basically when you get to what we're talking about here, the death and beral resurrection of Jesus, that is the answer to all problems despite the momentary battles with the illnesses. But anyway, so I pray, and I got all these guys. There were no females here. It was all a bunch of just rough military guys and duck hunters and people around the community. I said, y'all put a hand on him, and we gathered around this guy and prayed.

They were going to do a surgery just to try because they're basically, that's their last move, see what they can remove. So anyway, they have the surgery. And the text I got, it was very encouraging because it was like this. Well, the doctors say that evidently it wasn't as bad as what it looked like. It was phrases like that. we actually think that he may recover. You know, I'm like, what happened to this? We're going to give him a few weeks to live.

So to us, it was very encouraging. Everybody was exciting. But I thought to myself, people justify things by listening to doctors and putting their faith and trust in science or whatever it is. And here we have a moment where I'm like, I read my Bible that says, if you're, you know, if you're sick, you pray to God. you place your hands on on this guy and uh i think that's what's missing in the justification for how we live our lives i mean if if you don't have a faith and trust in in god number one

and then you're not have a don't have a place where we have the cross where there's forgiveness you come up with these justifications on why you live your life temporary reprieves that men doctors science can give you uh does not stack up well with eternal, eternal possibilities. That's exactly right. I mean, that's what I think. But they want that, but they're trying to get it from the wrong places. I saw, I mean, Taylor Swift's, which I guess is the most renowned seller of music

she's in the top three. I noticed the name, I don't listen to a lot of Taylor Swift. Well, I was going to say, Jason, I didn't know you were like a Taylor Swift fan. I was actually listening to the stock market channel, and they said, big news tonight at midnight, Taylor Swift comes out with her new album. Because the reason it's on the business channel is because there's a lot of money fixed to be made there.

But you know what the title of the album is? Evermore. Evermore. I wonder where she got that idea. Whatever this is, whatever tunes you hear, it could possibly be forever more. Chase, you love those eternal concepts, don't you? I met Taylor Swift.

She's nice, but guess what? She's not getting your body out of the ground. There's nothing going to happen forevermore by listening to one single bit of that song. That is correct. Throwing that out there. If she started singing and said, Jesus died on a cross for the sins of the world,

including me, and three days later, was raised from the dead. if she's singing that. She sings that. I'll give her a few bucks. And attaches that to forevermore. Not only will I buy the album, I will publicly apologize for her choosing that title.

That ain't happening. I don't know that that's going to be a big seller these days. What's interesting to me, guys, if y'all will allow me the opportunity. We're looking at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, four individuals. who recorded what Jesus Christ said, what he did, who he was, why he did it, and they all came up with the same story, the death of Jesus, the burial of Jesus, the empty tomb. Once you get past Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and you turn to the Book of Acts, it is interesting that in the first paragraph of the book of Acts, after his suffering, he goes right to the cross.

That's three verses in the book of Acts. He showed himself to these men, gave many convincing proofs. He was alive. He appeared to him all 40 days, spoke, and he went on into heaven. It says later. Well, you take that and look at all the times Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John recorded. is there. You get through the book of Acts and you get to the book of Romans, the first paragraph. Paul called to be an apostle set apart for the gospel of God, Jesus, his death, his burial,

his resurrection, the gospel he promised beforehand. First paragraph. You turn out of Romans and you go, now I'm just going through the New Testament with you. You get to First Corinthians, chapter one. You say, the foolishness, the message of the cross is foolish. Chapter one, it starts. with it. You get to Second Corinthians. Same thing. You get to Galatians. Same thing. I am shocked. You're turning to a different gospel and you've said, unless you're circumcised, you

can't be saved. The Apostle Paul said you're going to burn. Stick with Jesus' his death, his burial, his resurrection. I agree. All those people. Every one of these, every one of these epistles, Jace. Every one of them. You start through them. I've heard you give that before. It's amazing. What it makes you, really,

is that every group of people here, and they're not, we call them books, but it was actually a letter to a group of people that had two things in common. They were all sinners. And they were all in need of Jesus and a focus on what his death and barrel and resurrection did to their lives. I get these books by the hundreds, hundreds, very one out of a hundred will string together God became flesh died on a cross was buried and raised from the day

it's not in their books not once because we're in a self look I was driving down the road because I just drove eight hours and then eight hours back I'm driving down the road and there's a flashing sign and I'm like what is it's flashing

so it got my attention and it said the power of you I thought, what's this about? The power of you. I almost have a wreck because I'm trying to figure out what comes next. And it said, wash your hands. And I thought, what the heck?

And you'll be clean. This is worth me almost having a wreck telling me that I have the power to wash my hands. I thought you were going to say wear a mask. Well, look, the next one, here we go again. Power of you. wear a mask. So they had a, this was a self-help, self-determination,

self, self, self, self. I get it. We're trying to, you know, protect people from getting the coronavirus, but flashing signs on the interstate telling me I had the power to wash my hands is about the dumbest thing I can ever think of. The power of you. But it comes from this,

we can fix everything. I think that's why when you, Going back to the beginning, you're talking about confidence. The reason why you could only find confidence in Christ in his finished work, I love that we say that it's finished because he already did it 2,000 years ago on a cross and God the Father raised him from the dead. But the reason why we can have confidence is not, it's because he does it. And I think if we're honest with ourselves and we absorb a message of the power of you

or thinking that you can somehow bootstrap yourself up in the back of your mind, everybody really knows that they're not capable of bootstrapping up their own morality. We all know how wicked we are. So that's why these humanistic efforts to justify yourself never lead to any real confidence. We may pretend like it. We may project confidence. But in the back of our mind, we know we're not capable. We know how limited we are and how finite we are.

And it's like all this self-help, you do you stuff, it's like a, it, It's we're pretending that we can do it. But in the back of your mind, you know that you really can. You know what I'm saying? Let's take another break. So what's amazing is that you say, well, it's written so much,

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, first chapter, and then it's elaborated on Jesus' death, his burial, his resurrection. What is amazing is that the guys who were with him listening to him say, we're going up to Jerusalem, they're going to, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, they're going to get together,

they're going to beat me, they're going to flog me, they're going to crucify me. In three days I'll be raised from the dead. Well, he told him that the entire time he was with him. When it gets to the empty tomb after he died, and Peter and John, who had been with him for three years,

watching the miracles and seeing the whole thing unfold. in John 20, verse 9, the other disciple, verse 8, who had reached the tomb first also went inside. He saw and believed they still did not understand from scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead. I find that, Jace, in lieu of watching our current culture, if these guys did, didn't get it watching everything they saw and heard for three years. If they still didn't get it, it lets you know it's not that it's veiled. It's it evidently, I didn't get it until I was 28.

And a lot of people, you know, they're sitting there at 50 saying, do what? It goes back to that justification. It is amazing. Al was talking about because those two guys who were actually preparing the body at the burial. out of fear or losing their position, they were just secret disciples, but to me, they remind me of a lot of people.

They came out once the war was over. It's over now. Yeah. And now you're coming out here. Yep. And I feel that's the same way in our minds. At least Peter and John, they ran over there when somebody said,

look, he's alive. And they're like, what? They take off running and running up there and looking in there saying, well, well, it was a dumb and dumber moment. It's like, so you're telling me there's a chance? Everybody was afraid until the resurrection, though. I mean, everybody, all right. That's true.

Yeah, all of them. Because it was something unbelievable. It was unbelievable that a human could die for three days, which I think is why he was dead three days, because it wasn't like, oh, we think he's dead. Oh, no, he's dead. three days and then he comes back but you're just thinking it's over and you're never going down that road that he could actually be resurrected even though he said he would i mean you wouldn't

believed it either would you i would have had a hard time if somebody if i've been running with somebody for 40 years and they said feel uh look i'm going to die when i die three days later i'll be raised from the dead i would have said this guy's he's but think about this phil if somebody handed you an Acorn, just an acorn, because we hunt wood ducks and they all, they're full acorns. We'll count the acorns or whatever, you know, when we shoot one. That's more of that. This joker, eight, 20 acres. But if somebody handed you an acre and they said, and took you out and showed you a fully grown oak tree.

If somebody said, that tree before you had seen one, is going to come out of this. Well, you'd never believe it. I would say impossible. But really, it's the same thing. that happened at the resurrection. It's all around you. I mean, if you can get that tree out of that, but so you take it in the world,

if you go out there, which is what I said, I mean, I love science because God created it, but people who deny God, if you hand them an acre and say, make me this. Yep.

Yep. They can't do it. No, they can't do it. Well, they're going to go stick it in the ground and it's going to rain, and they say, okay, I'll do it. But you're, something else is doing. And man can't do it.

That's what I'm saying. He can't get a tree out of an acre. Make me a tree out of the acre and then we're going to go down and see the power of us. Yeah. More intimately. Yeah. But until then, no, you're a sinner just like I am and you better check this out. Hey.

How did we get off on this? I don't know. Well, you know, Jay, sure right, because you think about it, when Paul is describing the resurrection in 1, 1, Corinthians 15, he used the same illustration that you just used. I mean, he didn't use an acre and oak tree, but he used the seed. He was like, you know, how are we going to come back from death? And he said, well, it's like, it's like a plant. You know, it dies, the seed falls down to the ground. And then what comes out is so much better. And he's describing. Where is that? John? That's first, that's first, that's first, Corinthians 15. Okay. I thought Jesus said it in John somewhere.

He may have. He may have to. And that's a grand. Yeah, I think you're right. I'm looking it up. It's 1st Corinthians 15. But what gets you is, and of course in 1st Corinthians, he's making the point that Jesus had to die first and come back, and then he compares it to us. This is what's going to happen to us, which, let's face it, that's the most exciting part of the resurrection,

is that now there's no longer fear of death. I mean, that was the game changer. And, of course, and y'all are right, the disciples, they were seeing it happen in real time and having a hard time believing it. Because to run that thread out, you remember he appeared to marry Magdalene, who I thought was funny because Kellett mentioned this last time. She was a woman and she had been demon possessed.

So you talk about a person who, the first person he appeared to was a person that had zero credibility as a witness. I mean, she couldn't have testified to anything in her culture. And yet that was the first person he decided to make himself not. known to. But you know what? When she went and told the disciples, they didn't believe her. I mean, they knew Jesus was gone, but they still didn't believe her that she saw him. And we're not picking on them. We wouldn't either. I found that verse I thought about it. In John 12, 23, Jesus replied, he was predicting his death. The hour has come for the son of man to be

glorified. I tell you the truth. Now, he chose wheat. Here, he said, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. Which is pretty, yeah, that's things that make you a, hmm. Yep. It's the great paradox of the gospel that death leads to life, that God condescends and comes down and becomes his creation. That's why, again, that's where the confidence comes from. I love this in the John talking about these guys. They were acting out of love for Jesus because they loved him, but they were in secret until the resurrection. The power came. The Romans, the theme of Romans, the gospel, the gospel is the power of salvation. It's down to the gospel. It's got power because it is the only real solution,

and it has it through the resurrection of Jesus. I mean, that's why I love this leading up into the resurrection, kind of coalescing into this. this birth of our confidence, not because of what we did, because of what Christ did. Well, it is the jumping off place. And again, we're watching them in their infancy, but let's face it, once they wrap their minds around it, and they had to get the Holy Spirit to really do that, which happens later in John. But once that happened, then they saw it clearly. And look, once they realized they didn't have to fear death, they all went until they were martyred themselves. So, I mean, it's the greatest witness to me, and as you've mentioned this before.

Let's take another quick break. By the way, Jay, so on the Akron theology and the wheat theology, it is interesting that the Apostle Paul, when he got to 1st Corinthians 15, he said, what I received, I passed on to you as a first importance. That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, like John said, that he was buried, like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John said, and that he was raised on the third day. If you jump over that about verse 23, it says, say verse 20. Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. The first fruits, like you planted the wheat seed, of those who come the seeds who have fallen asleep. Since death came through a man, Adam, spiritual death,

the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. As in Adam, all die. that's where you are before Jesus comes along and dies on a graeme. So in Christ, all would be made alive. But each in his own turn, Christ the first fruits, back to the seeds. Then when he comes, those who belong to him. Well, you read that. You're like, it's like he produces many seeds, one death, one burial, and the plant comes up.

And you're like, he says, that's me among people. That is a weird thought. Oh, it's a good one. But here's the problem, I think, Bill. You know, I taught junior high at our church for 10 or 12 years, and I always did an illustration with every new class. I brought a watermelon in, and I had a seed. I put the seed on the desk and the watermelon.

And this just shows you what we're up against in our culture. And here these kids are 11 and 12. And I'd hold up the seed, and I'd say, how did this? come out of this. Because at that age, they'll answer. You know, they're not, it's, I'm cool, I can't answer. That's why I hung out with a junior. You had one seed, and now I'm looking at a melon that it made,

and it's got, you know, what, 100, 200 in there. But look, the fact that I did it in this way is that I had the watermelon there and the seed, they forget they're in Bible class because they're looking at it. You know what they'd say? Always, you know what their first answer is? Science. These are kids that are raised in church.

But you show them the two things. It's because the public education system, you see, they think, well, it's got to be science. It's got to be science because there's no other explanation. God's too easy. You know, I mean, if they say that, it's always right. But still, I just find that fascinating, though, because it's unexplainable when you just look at it.

we're around it so much, we take it for granted. Yep. But don't say science. Or you can say science that God created, I guess, would be a better way to explain it. Well, science and God are not in contradiction to one another. Science is we're looking at natural causes of the effects that we're observing. And there's nothing unbiblical about that. God created a world of cause and effect.

and so we can look at that. I think where science can become idolatrous, because up until... Which right now it is. Yeah, it's when... More than any other time in my lifetime, this year. Yeah, but I... What Jace is saying is that a seed from a watermelon,

one seed produces a product that you slice it, and there's hundreds of seeds. More seed. More seed. Jace is saying that's not natural. That's supernatural. It's supernatural. It's supernatural.

You, you... You lost me here when you, because in this same thing with this, the coronavirus and the vaccine. When the vaccine came out, what do they say? They say it's a great day for science. I've heard that a hundred times. And I'm like, now wait a minute. When a pandemic happens, it's all God's fault. I can't believe God would do this.

When we have a cure, it's a great victory for science. Well, what about God giving us the ability or the means to do that? What if it came from an evil source and now God has given us an opportunity? Science was real mean, but now it's going to be real, real, real, real generous and going to be loving. I guess I'm mad at this approach because I'm noticing it more and more. Look, I was duck hunting in Kansas and my buddy had his son there and he's in college right now. And somebody said, how's it going? And he's like, well, I've got to do this final.

He said, you know, it's so crazy. He said, I have a, my professor is 25 years old. and he took this class and the title of it was something something music he said all we've done in there the entire class is talk about gender he said in fact when i first sat down they they asked everyone to introduce themselves by gender and pronouns he said so i i gave he him and and you had to do your race yeah it was race and gender so whatever he said he him you know, Caucasian, you know, the professor informed him that that was completely wrong. And he said, so I've learned being in that class that there's over 70 genders.

Of course, he was saying it flippantly. Yeah. But he said it all got back down to her whole approach was that science has taught us that there's over 70 different genders unless you're bi-gender, which means you're two of them simultaneously. And so I thought about that, I thought about that, I thought about that, and then I said, what you need to do for your final? I said, now don't say Galatians 3, 26, and 27, or that's an immediate F.

And don't mention God, because you will make an F. But what I read in Galatians 3, 26, and 27, were all sons of God through faith. I said, the correct answer, when you go around, I said, you should have said, I'm a son. because that's the same point Paul made in Galatians 3, 26, and 27. There's neither male and a female. There's no nationality. What the question was after actually was addressed in a document written 2,000 years ago that we're actually all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

So instead of getting angry about, because I was at first, that here's a kid having to undergo this in college, It made me think the world is searching for something that Jesus produced and then we have it in a document that was written over 2,000 years ago. It's pretty incredible, really. It really is. Hey, let's take one last break. So, Jason, I guess science has changed a lot because when I was in school,

we had a scientific study called biology. And, you know, you just looked at the evidence of someone, a male or a friend. female. It was put forward pretty simple from scientific study that you got male and female. Sometimes there would be some sort of aberration and somebody might have, you know, more than one set of genitals, you know, that was kind of a rare thing that happened. You might have a case there. But for everybody else, it was pretty much simple. It was pretty binary. I mean, but wasn't that, isn't that scientific to look at something and then make an observation and then have a theory about it? I think it was at one time in our culture. People accepted it. But I really believe that they came up with this idea

basically off of that Saturday Night Live skit and the reality show where they, you know, the, the husband turned into a woman. I don't even know which one it was, but it was quite popular. Well, Jason, you're on a role today with between Taylor Swift, Saturday Night Live, and now some reality show about a cross-dresser, your cultural substance today is on target. I'm saying. Now look, people who hear this who disagree with me, they're like, what?

You think that's where it can't? Yeah, I think they made a kooky skit on Saturday Night Live about you can't tell, I think it was Pat was the name. You can tell if it was a man or a woman. It was pretty funny. It was very funny, and you know they couldn't do it today. First, it was a joke. It was a joke.

This is funny. Now if you do that, guess what? Oh, we're offended. Because there are really people out there that you're a fit. There are people that are men, women, and I guess 68 other things that I've, and he started naming them this kid. I had never heard of one, one, they invented words to tell you what gender you are. It's hard to get a man to menstruate. You know what I'm saying?

He can, he can claim whatever. but you know the old Phil I think people believe now you can be both things I think so and then they coined a phrase yeah I would be one that disagrees with the origin of that though being Saturday Night Live I mean this

I think this goes back I was making a joke I know and I'm tongue in cheek with you Hollywood went down that road or Hollywood or whoever and the universities went down the road and and reality well that would be Hollywood but I'm

and then this the narrative became, oh, you can be anything you want to, the power of you. It came from that idea. Well, you know, the late Francis Schaefer talked about this cascade of influence, and he wrote, I mean, he wrote this back in the 80s, I believe, and he drew a staircase in one of his books, and at the bottom of the staircase was theology and the church. And he said that our theology is mimicking what the culture wants,

The culture is mimicking the next step up, which is music, what they listen to, what kind of music they listen to, which mimics the art and the entertainment, which mimics philosophy. And all of this is below what he calls a line of despair. And so I think there really is very well thought out philosophical ideas that are demonic that have really ushered in where we're at now. And it all goes back, really, to what we talked about before, Phil, with the movie Torchbearer. Who gets to determine truth? I mean, that's basically what it gets down to is who gets to determine what the truth is.

And so with the gender movement, along with a lot of other things, it's that the idea is that we get to determine reality for ourselves. Even now, it's this. That's right. The power of you. The power of view. We can even defy biological reality. with our preference. So I mean, you used to, you know, 15 years ago

when we were in the kind of postmodern culture, at least you had scientific facts and mathematical equations. Those were objective truths, meaning they were true, independent of our perception of them. But now we've evolved past that, that even the objective science and mathematical facts, even that's up for interpretation now. now. We're not even, this is like deconstruction. When you come up with 70 different genders,

I pretty much think the interpretation has lost any kind of, uh, yeah, but think about how, how much they're feeding on themselves, because just 15 or 20 years ago, the argument was for homosexuality is you don't get, you don't determine you're born that this is, you're born a certain way and there's no way you can change that. You shouldn't try to tell people they shouldn't live this way and now we come along 20 years later and now you can be anything you want to you can just change and it'd be multiple things it all stems from uh just this insatiable desire to do the opposite of what god said when he said god made them male and female yep they just no because it comes back to the lifestyle that if you if you believe that which

seems to be common sense. They're just not going to do it. It's crazy to me. It was the craziest thing I've ever heard. When he said 70, the whole blind went 70. I mean, I thought maybe I'll give you a three or four. Like Al said, if somebody's born, you know, with parts of, you know, you got different kind of parts.

Okay. We got two and a half. 70? Well, and I think a culture of large is just getting more. more difficult to kind of keep up with what's acceptable in our language, what can we say, what can't we say. Everybody's walking around afraid they're going to get canceled if they say the wrong thing with the ever-changing rules. And I think that where this all leads to this idea where we started with confidence and fear is, man, how does anybody even keep up with all that?

It's so much pressure to keep up with it. So we're curating everything that we say. We're white, washing it, we're sterilizing it so not to offend anybody. And at some point, it's nice for us, as believers, just to rest in the truth of the gospel, that we can just speak in love. We can speak God's word and just know that God finished it. He's done the work. And we actually can have confidence and not fear that. Yeah. And that's what spawned this whole conversation, because I thought here's two guys at a team who basically were living the fear of being canceled 2,000 years ago. and when you look at what's happened in our culture, fast forward that many years,

pretty much the same thing. You know what's funny? Even this episode, as we're talking here, it will not shock me if we get flagged, if we get demonetized, if we get, I mean, you can't, even these conversations. I'm choutting on it. I like that. I mean, make sure if you're listening that you go subscribe to our RSS feed as

well, which is the audio version on Apple or wherever you subscribe to the podcast. I mean, we're going to have to figure something out long term just to be able to speak the truth. I mean, this is getting out of control. Yeah, because you hear this stuff about big tech and dad, you see it. I know from watching the news, but I'm telling you, thereafter people just like us, this platform that we had that we're talking about the Bible, this is now considered to be hate speech. But all this other stuff running around that really is, is like, no, that's okay. You know, that's your First Amendment right. So Zach's right.

I mean, it's affecting us more every day. I'll tell you this, though, what to me, you know, we can come up with all these arguments and we can talk, we can do long podcast. To me, what turned those two guys at that grave around was the cross of Jesus. And I think in all of our discussions and what we do and, you know, when I was in that duck blind today talking about 70 different genders, I mean, I went to the cross and the resurrection, and I wanted him to write about it because that truly is, I think,

what the world is searching for. How can we have perfect equality? And we do it through forgiveness on a cross because of God's love in Jesus and the hope of being ever more because of the resurrection. Governments and ideologies cannot remove sin nor raise the dead.

They just can't do it. Hollow and deceptive. philosophy won't do it. Don't do it. No hope. All right, we're done. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

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