Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 206 | Phil Robertson and the Accidental Exorcism, Jase Wears Ladies' Gloves, and What Are Ghosts?

Episode Date: January 11, 2021

Jase finds the warmest pair of gloves ever, and he doesn't care who knows that they're really made for women. He also shares the next chapter in the story of the cameraman with commitment issues. Phil performs an accidental exorcism with remarkable results, and the guys tackle a couple of questions from the audience: What are ghosts, and why are they here? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So I told you all the story about me trying to get this cameraman from when they did the Yeti movie. I told him, you know, he needed to make the move. Let's step up. I gave him a great illustration of being married to Jesus. But as a cameraman, he's been dating his girlfriend. for five years.

So I'm like, drop the camera and experience the magic. Well, the next thing I know is I realized I've just said this in front of a million people

on the podcast. Somebody that may know her. In fact, I think she watches sometimes. So we do a dinner scene after the podcast, that was their last scene, you know. Right. And I said, hey, yeah, you know, great job. I just want you to know that you're on the clock because that story, even though I didn't plan on it, I told your story.

He said, well, did you use my name? I said, pretty sure I did. So she could possibly put the pieces together, but it doesn't matter. It's happened now. He said, was there any way we can, you know, go back and take that out. And I was like, no, now you're getting back into the same problem why I gave the speech. I said, all you need to know as a matter of importance is you're on the clock. You have 48 hours. Make your decision. I mean, you don't have to marry her, but it's going to be out there that you've got a commitment problem. I would try to get in there before it airs. That's right. And let's, let's have a talk. That's right. At least tell her that you've thought about it now or something.

You know, I actually felt bad about it, you know, on the way down there because I thought, boy, that guy, it fixed to get real. He couldn't even eat lunch. You had him so shook up. Nausea said he. But I noticed later he was coming up. I think he really realized I got commitment issues. Well, and it's funny.

You have to remember you were suggesting no more. And the Bible says about you have male and female, and they unite with one another. They become one flesh and they are married, and it's all legal before God. You know what came out of that? There's no sin there. You weren't inviting him to sin at all. And what came out of that conversation was his faith. And he brought it up.

Yeah. And I was impressed. But then I was more sure than ever that this needs to happen. So sometimes I think people just need a little nudging. Well, you had the information that he had dated it for five years. A guy like Dan who works for us, I mean, about the most trustworthy individual you ever want to run across. But he doesn't date at all. He's not interested in marrying.

So, you know, so be it. You don't have to marry. No, no. But look, what I did last night. Jesus said because of the kingdom, even if you say, you know what, like the Apostle, he says, you know, I think I'll just forego married because of the present. I have a couple of single friends that are in their 60s and 70s, and they never married. They're good, solid Christian guys.

They just had the gift of celibacy. I mean, Paul called it a gift. I wish you had the gift I have. Dating or the lack thereof, it can be stressful, especially when you're a teenager. I mean, it's like it took me a year dating my future wife, which I did marry, for me to even entertain the idea that she might continue this, which was... The apostle Paul made it clear, if you wanted to marry, you can do so. But he did say those who marry will face...

I'm quoting directly, First Granted. Oh, you love this first. Well, I just make a point that those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. He was just saying, if you travel alone, it's cheaper, and it's... I told our cameraman that. Well, and he said that during a time of great persecution, too. But I told him that.

I was like, look, you're trying to get all the eyes dotted and the T's cross before you get married. That's never going to happen. And guess what? When you get married, they're still going to be there. But the difference is you're doing it together. Well, I always had a theory that we all married young. It's just kind of what we all did. I mean, I think Jeff was the oldest one, and he was like 21 or two.

So we kind of grew up together. And, you know, at least I had issues and all that, but we kind of learned it as we did together. And you and mom were the same way. Yeah, we had different situations. Because my theory always has been, and a lot of people wait a long time, the problem with that is, and that's, I mean, look, people will do whatever they want to, but the problem with it is, is you build up a lot of your own habits and your own way of looking at things. And so then all of a sudden you merge in with this other person, and, you know, that's going to be rocky water too.

I mean, it's just a way. Well, the longer you wait. And the children come and we're all under one roof. Well, it's a challenge. It's a challenge. What I've noticed is the longer you wait, the more baggage you acquire. That's right. And bring to the abode.

That's right. But I think a lot of them look at the financial end of it and say, well, you know, if I don't make the commitment, there's no way I'll ever get in a financial vow over this case. Somebody pulls some stunt, including me. I'll pull one or she pulls one. And then we've got to go to court and all it. And so they're just free-riding it, just saying, well, you know. And that's normal, Phil. Look, I mean, look, my in-laws, I mean, they've grown to love me.

But the reason they said no at first is because when he asked the question, what are you going to do for a living? It's like, not a whole lot. That's not very conducive with in-laws. I said, I'm going to work hard and I'm going to trust God and we'll make it. My goal is to be the president of a bank or my goal is to, you know. I want to be a doctor. I said, I'm going to be a fisherman at a hunter and figure it.

it out. And that was the wrong answer. But you know what? It was the truth and it worked out. Look at you now. You're just quite the success story. I was going to make a point that, you know, I have trouble. I mean, parenting is tough no matter what. But I had more trouble, you know, with my daughter or now daughters since, you know, Karina from Nicaragua has become part of our family. But I do feel like they're in their teenage years. I'm like, I need to spend more time. with them because I spent way more time with my sons. I mean, I take them hunting their fish and I mean, I try that with my daughter, but she just didn't want to do it.

So I'm like, then when we start having conversations, you know, the thing she likes, I don't even know what she's talking about. So, and we do, you know, things. We go on trips. We play cards, but I told her a couple weeks ago, we were in Austin. I was like, I need to take you on a date because I got to thinking she's at that time where she's, you know, she's interested in dating, but I thought, well, I want to show her how you should be treated.

Yep. And even though it's a daddy-daughter date, so she didn't really say anything. She just kind of was like, hmm, so I thought, well, she didn't like that idea. So last night, I mean, look, I have been on a run. We've been filming, we've been doing things. We've duck hunted for days. I was tired last night.

And I woke up, well, I took a nap. And when I woke up, she was like, are you ready to go on our date tonight? And I said, playing cards? She was like, no, I was thinking something a little more elaborate, like a restaurant. Of course, I don't really like going to restaurants. And I said, what do you got in mind? And she picked a place that I do like. And so it was on the other side of Monroe.

So I was like, you know what? Yeah. Because I'm the one that brought it up. And for whatever reason, she's pursuing that. And so I thought it was just being her, but here come her and Corinna, they got all dressed up, you know, and I was kind of looking. I don't believe I ever took y'all until a restaurant. No.

No, but that's okay. It would have got awkward for everyone involved. We didn't miss it. I do know how to socialize, and so, plus you have to wear a mask going in. So here was the weird part. We pull up at this restaurant, it's packed. There was no parking places. Of course, this mask required.

and put the mask on, but I walked in. The place was... Can you take it off when you eat or you have to lift it? I took mine off because everyone else seemed to... I just didn't want to sit there and stare at it. In California, you have to walk in and you didn't have a mask all you did. And what's the diff when you finally get to eat? It's not.

There's no diff. In California, you have to put it on in between bites, is what somebody told me. If it's true or not. But I want to say this. You know what was weird? In between bites. Which I think Missy was a little. disappointed because she wanted to go but i'm like nope this daddy-daughter thing you know have fun but

you know what what what and i want to say this to our listeners what what shocked me you know we talked about life and they now we had fun and different things happen you know just things seemed to happen to me that are really weird but we've all noted that there were some funny things about about getting in the restaurant because we walked in and they went the oh I mean they knew who I was I said, I had a mask on the guy. I said, Jay, sweet, we're full. I was like, okay. I said, we're out of here.

And he said, however, let me give me a minute, because he felt bad. I mean, I had been there once, you know. Now he's fixing to lose money on you. Well, and he knows. He knew how it was, and he was like, let's make this work. So the table they threw together was comical. And so anyway, but it worked. And we have fun, which made it part of the story.

And we talked about life. We had a good time. I mean, I was thinking this happened. I mean, what happened was way better than I was anticipated. It was really good for future endeavors. I mean, I just think a good bond was formed. And so then I think what was cool, because then we were talking about she's going on a retreat this weekend. I was like, well, it's going to be cold.

She was like, what? Because, you know, she doesn't see she don't hunt. she doesn't realize we have a major front coming in. You're going to freeze your rear end off out and the outdoors. It's like, well, do you have any gloves? I was going through it. She's like, I don't have gloves. I was like, I'm going to go get you a pair of gloves now.

So we wind up at one of these pharmacy stores, believe it or not. They sell the best gloves I've ever bought. They're like five bucks. They're awesome. I bet they are. I wore them today because look, I bought her two pair, and I bought me three pairs. You're so sure about all that.

Well, they're women's gloves. Did you wear it with your women coat you got from Russia? Nobody has said a word to me in the duck blind said, hey, Jase, you're wearing women's gloves. They're the warmest pair of gloves I've ever owned. I mean, I'm riding. And they cost $5 at the time. Five bucks.

How did you run up on this? Well, that's enough about dating. No. Taking your daughter's date. Okay. Look, I was on the, I was in the aisle. Let's get into some meat. Hang on.

You said how to run up on them. I was going down the aisle picking up some medication as pharmacy. And they had some gloves hanging there. And I thought, those things looked warm. But I couldn't find a size that fit me because it said women. So I thought, surely there are big women out here. In the back, they had multi, extra, extra large, which was about right. You needed a woman with man hands.

Yeah, they got. Remember Seinfeld man in? But I was going to tell you this, because you want the spiritual side. I'm going to tell you, well, when I walked into this pharmacy, there were two African-American women behind the counter, and they were like, welcome. Great to see it. I was like, these people are excited.

I said, I'm phenomenal, fantastic, and I love your cheer. And they both just kind of look back. I was like, awesome. So when I get my gloves, I come up there and check out. Well, one of them, the younger one, said, jace is that you i have a mask on and i was like yes she's a what when you're kind of sticking out though around the mask she said when you're going to get me on one of your tv shows or anything because nobody knows who i am that's what that was the line it's kind of sad in a way i said y'all have been so

cheerful since i come in here and now you've brought up something look be careful what you wishful there's a lot about being on tv that's not good i said but i will tell you this i said the next time you look in the mirror, you need to say, even though people may not know who I am, God knows who I am, and he made me a masterpiece. When I said that, the other woman said, praise Jesus. And I said, I'm just excited that y'all are excited despite all the chaos that's going on in our world. And the woman said, now, here we're in a store now. And there are people in line, and they're listening to this conversation. And she said, well, I'll live by a rule, just love God. And I said, and what about one another? I said, people would look at us right now and say, what are y'all doing?

We're just loving each other, loving life, talking about spiritual things. I just thought, now, this is a moment here in this store. And I'm, you know, getting to share this with my daughter, that it all started from spending quality time when I didn't really want to go out. But when I was driving home, I thought, this is the kind of stuff I want my daughter to see. You should have told her to look in the mirror and say, I'm good enough, I'm smart, enough and dogg on it people like me yeah i remember that stewart small let's take a break so i got one question before we get into the text um just an observation so i want to know what y'all thought about

so i you know i cut through by size house to come out here and i think i'm the only one that does it and no i do oh do so have you seen the pig that's there on the road on carcass lane it's right when you first turn on there right on the right that was a beaver no it's a pig it's a hog it's a wild It's a wild hog. So look. I thought that was a beaver. I looked and said, that's the biggest beaver I've ever seen. It was actually a...

Are you sure? Have you seen it? Yeah, I'm driving by there on the way home. So here's my question about it. So it's been there over a week. And nothing's touched it. Nothing's touched it. Well, that is weird.

Right up the road, the buzzards were all over something. Because I thought it was a beaver. Yeah. I said to myself, not even the buzzards. But I thought the same thing about this pig. Now, because it's gotten warm enough. I realize it's cold. It can't be a pig.

You're either saying it's a haul. It's not a pig. It's a hog. Like a wild hog. A young wild hog. I stopped and looked at that. I'm thinking pig, female, hog, male is what? It's a hairy hog is what it is.

You look at it. You're 100%. I've looked at it. I know what you're talking about. Not much that they haven't. What I'm saying is, you know, they put deer carcasses up down that road, and the buzzards are there and the worms are there. But nothing has touched this thing. Carcass Road.

I don't know what the deal is with that. I did notice this. But what is your point? Well, my question was, why is that the case? Why won't the buzzards eat that thing? Well, we now have an identification issue. I thought it was because it was a beaver. I'm going to take a picture of it today.

Jesus, I know a hog from the bea. I do, too. I'm younger. I have better eyes. I'm going to see it's all. I'm going to take a picture of it. We'll show it to our audience. My question wasn't what it is.

My question was, why won't anything eat it? Yeah. Is it just because why? I don't have a good answer. And I did know it's one other observation. I don't see any carcasses on Carcass Lane this year. So does that mean the rednecks have killed deer? Have they found another place to throw it?

They should find another way to dispose of me. I hate it. It's just all of them. Instead of throwing them out on the side of the road. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard for our viewers to get the idea, but it's like the longest straightaway in North Louisiana. That's right.

It's just a long straightaway. And there's just usually dead deer carcasses. skeletons on both sides. I mean, some years, 20, 30 of them along the way. All right, so that was just a question. We'll figure that out and catch you up. So I'm going to do a couple, or maybe

if we get there, a couple of listener questions today, which I love these segments. And there was one that came to me, oh, shoot, I wrote his name down. I think it's Jeff. But he's asked some questions before. But so here's what he said. My wife and I

were watching these ghost shows. on TV where people see ghost. And this raises a question to us about ghosts. And I'm looking for some sort of Bible-based answer. It says, one, what are ghosts and why are they still here? And number two, where are there just a few of them? And what keeps them here? That was this question.

So I thought it was interesting because... Why is there just a few of them? Well, that's what he asked. In other words, he's thinking why doesn't everybody, if they're just, if they're around, why didn't everybody say... Oh, he's assuming. There are, you know, ghosts as he's gone. I mean, I've said many times, I believe in at least one.

The holy one? Yeah. That's where I was going with that. So I do believe in ghosts. So look, there are some biblical, so I did a little search. I looked into it. I hadn't read your notes. So there's two instances where the disciples thought Jesus was a ghost.

Okay. I remember that. he said, well, but Jesus said a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. Exactly. Which, so that tells me that Jesus didn't say, oh, you idiots, there's no ghost. He confirmed, in my mind, he confirmed. No doubt. That was your best point. Yeah. I think that's where is that. We need to know where it's at. That's in, well, it's in Luke 24. That's one of my favorite passage in the Bible. Depending on your, 37. Dependent on your

translation, because mine says, now Jesus said just been raised from the dead, and he says, peace, be with you. Which he said that three times. Because, you know, seeing dead people, which once again, another Hollywood movie, where did they get that idea from?

You know, I see dead people. Yeah. Well, biblically speaking, you would have to believe, not only in the miraculous, Ephesians 2, as for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world. And you followed the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit, who is now at work and those who are disobedient. Right. So, biblically speaking, there are evil spirits and seems to be one king, P.N., Satan himself.

Right. a lot of people have trouble dealing with that part of Christianity. In other words, there is a God of heaven, the God of love, the creed, created all things, including the evil ones. Right. But they just have difficult time believing, seeing the unseen. You mentioned the guy the brother wrote the book. Yeah. Seeing the unseen. I brought a copy of it to show the audience.

I've mentioned this one before. this is the best book I've ever read about this subject and seeing the unseen by Joe Beam. And it just kind of breaks down the sort of like you just described the sort of the hierarchy of evil. Because mostly, like you said, it's evil spirit is what you see. But I did a little bit of a, you know, what happens is, you know, these guys were speaking mostly to one another in Aramaic. That language was then translated into Greek. And then that's been translated into English. So, you know, sometimes you have to look at the original words.

I did find it interesting that the word that in Luke 24, the Greek word there is Numa, which means spirit or wind, which is interesting. You know, remember when Jesus talked about the spirit and wind, how they were similar? Yep. And then the, but the word in the other time we hadn't talked about was when Jesus was walking across the sea of Galilee. Remember that? Yep.

And they were out there in the boat. They've been trying to make, make hay, but the wind is blowing. crazy and they look up and they see Jesus walking on the water and they said look he's a ghost what's interesting is the Greek word there is phantasma which we would call it a phantasm in english and it's when the invisible becomes visible that's what the word means this is a different Greek word so when they saw him walk across the thing they were like oh my goodness it's a phantasm you know they didn't know but it so it's two different Greek words but it's the same idea that it's something not physical.

You know what I'm saying? Well, he clarifies it in John 3. Jesus and Nicodemus, to tell you the truth, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can it be born again when he's old? Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb. Now, here's the way Jesus straightens him out. I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and the spirit,

he cannot enter the kingdom of God. And then he makes this point. gives birth to flesh, which is your human being. Right. But the spirit gives birth to spirit. He's saying there's a difference between the natural and the spiritual. You should not be surprised at me saying you must be born again. Then he compares it like you said, Al. The wind blows wherever it pleases you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit.

Yeah. He's just saying it's pretty simple if you see very sinful, brutal behavior, you kind of can surmise that something is behind that. That's what I've always thought. You know, somebody goes into a school and kills 26 kids. For no reason. For no reason at all? A lot of them, they never find a reason.

Right. And I'm thinking that person had to have had an evil spirit. I mean, there had to be a spirit of evil for you to even get there, you know? Not a lot about mental illness in the Bible, but a whole lot about demons, demons, demons. Evil spirits. I just leaned toward looking at things demonic, demonic. Well, you know this. It's throughout the whole battle.

Well, you had the, you were talking about the dead hog. I mean, you had this story where Jesus cast the spirit out of the hog. You mean this one? In Mark 5 that I just turned to. Yeah. I had no idea. You were going there. Great. I mean, it's amazing how often that happens. Well, you said something about the hog, and I thought, well, maybe that hog, or I thought it was a beaver. I'm still. But that text, you can read it out. I mean, it says they're there. Well, I want to read that. Let's take a break. So basically there's this guy and he's hanging out in the graveyard,

which I think, by the way, all your Hollywood movies and stuff, there it is again. This is where they get all of it. You know when the guy... These graveyards are scary, you know, because dead bodies are there. Remember the story in Acts with the woman following along and they were taunting? And they were like, you know, they said who they were. Yeah. And the legions, they said, I am legion for we are.

man, that's right. Well, all of a sudden it's a bad Hollywood movie. Yeah. But that really happened.

That really happened. So. Because Jesus said, come out of this man, you evil spirit. Because this guy, it said he couldn't be, he couldn't be contained

even with a chain. So this guy's a rough looking, I mean. So you go on with the ghosts or the spirits of dead people? Ghosts, winds, winds, spirits. I'm not.

sure. Are you going with demons as in? I mean, the only ones I can read about for sure is that the apostles thought Jesus was a ghost. Let me give you a true story that was real. Oh, no. This, I walked up with one of the brothers and a young woman was standing outside one of these rehab type situations and she was talking with the woman that runs it. So you have this one girl, I figure she's about 20. So she was talking to the lady that heads up the whole program. So the brother and I, we walked up there, and I was about, you know, like 10 feet away. And since they were talking, we just...

Is this a jail, a hospital? It's like a rehab unit, you know, rooms in it. So I just walked up. I never said a word. I just walked up, had a Bible in my hand. I'd never seen this girl. She had never seen me before. we never seen each other in our life.

So I just walk up and I'm waiting on, they finish till they finish the conversation. I didn't want to just bust up in there since they were talking. She was kind of raising her voice. And when she turned around and saw me standing there with the other brother, we were just standing there, I had my Bible. I didn't say a word.

She, a scowl came on her face and she got on me and she started cursing me some of the filthiest language you ever heard. heard. And she didn't know who you were? I'd never seen her before. Well, she may have known who he was because he's famous. I don't know whether she knew or was or not, but she was letting me have it. And I never spoke. I just sat there.

And when she got done, she ran inside the building. Well, I walked in the woman that heads up the thing said, whoa. I don't know what got into her field, but boy, she's coming on at you. I said, yeah, I said, look, I said, here's a little text. And I gave her that Ephesians 4, be angry, but sin not. I said, don't let the sun go down while you're still angry. I showed her that. I said, so don't feel bad about it.

I said, do you think that girl would sit down with us and we could talk further? And she said, you want to talk to her after that cousin? I said, sure. She initiated it. I said, she can track her down as if she'll come in there. Now listen to this. True story. we walk in there it's me the brother and this girl she shows up the girl that runs the thing

said she said she had talked to y'all well when she sat down she just continued the tirade and i said if you'll just stop a minute and let me show you something you may change your mind about how evil i am i said won't you just give me a chance to share some good news with you and she kept on and kept on so finally she said you ain't telling me that g t bible yeah yeah so she finally gets quiet and i tell her that god loves her and i love her and i said there's a way out of here he died on on a cross for you to remove all your sin and i said to bring you out from under the control of the evil one and when i said that she was seated at the table like she was seated like this i was sitting across from She was like right here, and when I said, you're doing what you're doing, and the reason

you're cursing me is you're controlled by the evil one, but God's spirit will get to you past that. And as soon as I said that, she slammed, she screamed and slammed her head on the table. She just brought her head down on the table, and I'm like, ooh, that was quite the lick. She bounces her head off the table, and she shrieks like something you never heard. and it was kind of like projectile vomiting coming forth from her mouth as she left the room. So she's vomiting on the way out. When I said you're doing what you're doing by the power of the evil one and God's spirit can heal you,

that's when the head came down and she took off and throwing up. So she runs away. Well, the girl that was the receptionist seated out there come running in, she said, what in the world was all that about? It's an exercise. I said, well, yeah, she said, that was a deliverance. I said, well, hopefully we'll see in a minute. It was a deliverance of whatever she ate.

So 10 minutes goes by. She runs to the bathroom. 10 minutes goes by. She walks back in, and the first thing I noticed was that her countenance had changed. She started out. She was almost a different color from where I first saw her. and all they are right so she comes in she's wiping her face like this with a with a towel and she sits down and in a meek voice she said can y'all help me i said we can help you well so i preach a gospel to her again

went through it again she's quiet and i said i think some are coming down in my house tomorrow some of y'all i said you can get with them if you want to so the next day When the woman who runs the van came up in a couple of buses, they came down on the river, and there's about 20. They brought about 20 with them. Well, somebody, I just kind of saw them all standing there, but someone pulled on my shirt like that, and I looked down, she's a little bit of woman.

And I said, I looked at her. I said, are you that girl that we talked to last night? She said, yep. She said, I want you to take me to the river to baptize me. I said, well, get in line because a lot more. And look, the girl went on her way rejoicing as far as I know, but that's true still. That's an amazing story.

And it got my attention. They really did. Yeah. Because, you know, first you take a cursing and you look at something and all of a sudden projectile or whatever. The brother with me, Owens, Owens was with me. And when she ran out of the room, you know, with all that, he looked at me and he went.

And I said, I said, lightly, I said, demonic. He was like, if you didn't know, you were just like, what is that? I was guessing. Yeah. So, that's the true. That's quite the story. How does just words from this book, how come someone goes from cursing and just vow and all of a sudden, a meek little voices, can you help me?

Well, it certainly exactly looks like. It got my attention. And I'll tell you that. what we were talking about. Let's take another break. By the way, I've never told any, very few people that story. I had heard parts of it. I've seen some more, but that's one that kind of came to my mind. Since we're having an idea day about the unseen world,

here's a thought I've had before, but I don't think I've ever shared it with another person. But when you read Romans 8, of course, I'm taking some assumptions here. Because you've got to think, so what happens to the Spirit? of dead people. Now, when you read First Thessalonians four, it says God is bringing with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. And you know where their bodies are, the cemetery. Right. But he doesn't talk about the people who are not in Jesus, right? Now, there is a passage in the Gospels that says there'll be a resurrection. John 5. John 5 that we study. There'll be a resurrection of the righteous and the wicked. So everyone will be raised to face judgment.

what it said. So you have the dead spirits, wherever they are, possibly some like, because there's the story that we just read about the pigs that all started. Well, this guy was chained up, but he was in a graveyard. And if you notice, there's a few other stories like that. So you're like, well, why are they hanging around in graveyards? So it does seem to suggest just by the backdrop. There's a connection to the dead. There is a connection to the dead. However, what I'm going to say is, When you start talking about demons, I think it's something different. I do too. And so does Beam, by the way.

He talks about that. I didn't know what he thought. That's a different category. Here's why I get that. And there's a greater point here. You know, Romans 8, famous passage, you know, he shares the gospel of Jesus. Christ Jesus died. More than that was raised, the life.

Is that the right hand of God? This is 834. Interceding force. Then he says this, who shall separate us from the love of Christ? So now we're going big picture. Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine, neck and his dangerous sword. And then he says, we face death all day long like sheep to be slaughtered. Then he says, and all these things were more than conquerors through him who loves us.

For I'm convinced that neither death nor life. Well, then he says this, neither angels nor demons. And my point is, however the angels, when you do a study of that, so just off the top of your head, be careful when you entertain strangers because you might entertain an angel. Where is that? Hebrews 1.

It's Hebrews somewhere else. In Hebrew, also in Hebrews, it says, are not all angels ministering spirits to help those? So, okay, you have those. So by association. Good spirits, unseen, and bad spirits. Well, because look,

everything has categories, Death nor life, well, angels are demons. So you kind of have the opposite of the angel would be the demon. Just like death and life. But it's in the same, what would you call that, Al? It's in the same category. Right. Nor present or future, because the category would be time here.

Neither height nor depth, which is, that's why he's wording this. in a way that makes me think that demons are not dead people. I think they're fallen angels that crossed over with Satan. Yeah, and they're out to do harm. And they became something different because of sin and evil. I know this.

There's several places. There's millions of, I mean, there's a lot. Well, and then you have 1st John 4, whatever that means. You know, it says, be careful to test the spirits to see which one is from God. Okay. If I ever recognize that I'm in a spirit multiple choice, but it's hard to.

Now, a lot of people have different interpretations and people, it always makes me nervous when people say to me, well, God told me this or God told me that, because I'm like, well, how do you know it's God, whispering in your ear? Then you run upon one of these shamans over in Africa. You know, it's pretty, they say this happens all the time. And the brother you were with, when you saw this thing come out of the woods, I mean.

Yeah, I was just kind of like intrigued, you know, because Americans don't think about stuff like this. What did this thing look like? Well, he had, it looked like a gilly suit, but not as nice as the ones we had, but it was like that. Oh, he had it on? Oh, fully. You couldn't even see him, you know, all I can see is is it. So it wasn't a creature he was trying to look like it. He was right.

He was a perfect. but he was some kind of shaman so he's coming down the shaman yeah like a i've never heard that wasn't you say smoke was coming off of him so he had a thing with smoke and he's dancing around coming down the street and so i'm standing out there in the yard just looking at it and i'm thinking this is the strange thing i've ever seen so asa's wife comes out and says oh come back inside patril you don't want to be out here this this is evil you know and i said what does he do it he's trying to get people to give him money or he'll curse him you know i put a Now I'm out on that.

But that's, so what I'm saying is, but they were, they were like, don't even mess with that. So, you know, I followed their lead and thought, well. It's kind of like the voodoo people that, you know, they'll make a doll. Oh, boy, you know, so I don't know. It's hard for me to go down that road because I just. Well, let me read you this story. This is, I think we've mentioned it for. This is an Acts 19.

Said, God did extraordinary miracles through Paul so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. So Paul had so much stuff ready out of him. He was cast out, demons wasn't even there. So then it says some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of Lord Jesus over those who were demon possessed. They would say, in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out. So they had him a little racket going here. Seven sons of Skeva, a Jewish high priest. That's who these guys were. They're doing this.

One day the evil spirit answered them, Jesus, I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you? Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on him and overpowered all seven of them. And he gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. And that has always got my attention because I thought, you know, you don't want to take this whole thing lightly because the evil is real. these boys took a beating I don't have a problem

I mean I'm trying to remember what they told us when we went to school I remember they just I wasn't paying attention but you know why you were sleeping with your eyes up it's hard to do that

you're acting like that's a bad thing you have to train yourself but it hurts you when you're trying to remember what somebody said let's take one another break but I think I do remember there was a debate

on whether demon possession happens today because and the argument was something about in my mind no doubt about it I agree you think so I do and remember the argument against was something about 1st Corinthians 13 when it was like when all things yeah prophecies and cease and the tons and all that's it's a stretch it is a stretch and here's why because I think the evil one Satan who is the chief and this is where Beams Book is so good. I mean, he's got his ways of being effective. In a culture like America,

when everybody thinks everything's mental illness, you know, just take a pill, just whatever, it's not going to have as much effect as it would in some other place. So I think it's more a question about what he can do to do the most harm to people. But let me ask you this.

Is what I think. What about the verse that says, resist the evil and he'll flee from you? So do you think before the cross that people had no choice or no aiding and abetting the demons, which is what I've always thought. I would say the circumstances were far more dire before Jesus. Well, what I'm saying is I think he could attack someone,

but when Jesus died and was bearing raised, I've always believed that he's now only going to attack somebody if they allow it. Well, here's the other thing. Or is that, what do you think? I think that's right. But here's what I do. If you read the Old Testament, there's some stories in there. We talked about the witch at indoor and stuff like that.

But you don't see a lot of this. It seems to be right around when Jesus came, when he was here, and then right after he left. I mean, obviously, that's most of the Bible. But I'm saying that sort of activity, that evil that was seen to be everywhere and all these evil spirits. But remember Satan was here actively engaged in the plan. He had a plot going against Jesus. Well, and the answer, one of the thing that they... Hebrew writer mentions Hebrews 214, since the children have flesh and blood, that's humanity.

He too, Jesus, shared in the humanity, God becomes flesh, so that by his death, he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. The point is you have to believe in the spirit world, Al. Correct. Or you would look at that and say, what's he talking about? I mean, if the power of death is the devil's work, and here comes Jesus, and when he was resurrected, that's when Satan, you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free, even from death. Well, you look at that and you say, you know what?

Spirit world or no spirit world, we read about it in the Bible, but I don't know how we're going to get it. out of here alive without the spirit world. Well, it does say our struggle's not against flesh and blood. It's what? You mean right here in Ephes and see? Spiritual forces of evil and the heavenly world. So he is attacking. The powers of this dark world, spiritual forces of evil and the heavenly world.

So he's saying this is heaven and earth flowing. I mean, I feel like when I meet a kid. And it's organized. Very organized. Evil, which is the why the books are in it. When I meet a kid with cancer, I mean, I didn't necessarily read this anywhere, but I'm just thinking this is an evil attack on somebody that's innocent. That's just the way I think.

And look at the story of Job, and it would seem to be you're exactly right. I mean, the evil one was the one that was attacking him. I mean, it was family killed. It was illnesses. Well, he had disease. Disease. At least we have the source of evil, Satan, and the source of good, God. and I'm seeing both of them.

I must stay on planet Earth. I've seen the ones who fear God and love their neighbor. I've seen them. And I've seen the ones who say, no, they are satanic. And I mean, they do things to Satan. They go around and it's just a nightmare. So the question. Murder, whatever it is, you know.

The question we can't answer that this man and his wife asked is, is these, are these spirits they don't leave? or do they come back? Now, interesting, the story in 1st Samuel 28, the spirit comes back. Well, but, yeah, I think they're confusing, though, demons with these spirits. Well, it's true, but what I'm saying is, even with different categories, it's obvious that they're here, whether you call that a ghost or spirit-possessed person. However, we have the Holy Spirit.

We do. And so this is like, if Ghostbusters were real, which they're not, it was a TV show. if they would have run up on the actual Holy Ghost, they wouldn't have busted that. The power, because it can raise, I mean, it was this silly show. So you didn't need the guns with the thing. You just need the Holy Spirit. But we watched that because you said,

why do we do that? Because people have these questions. So they make movies to try to think, oh, this is how we. And there is a spirit realm. By the way, they call it, the Church of Satan, what's it called? Yeah, like a satanic. Satanic, the worshippers, they all meet there, they're all in. Yeah, there's the Church of Satan.

I mean, they bowed down to. But do we believe in ghosts? Yes. At least one. And... Do we believe in spirits? Yes. I mean, if you bring up the story, who is that that came back from the...

Samuel. Samuel, he came back. So Saul goes to a medium, which meant she had the ability to do it. Because you see these mediums, we all assume they're all fake, but she wasn't fake. She actually brought him back. But is this pre-J, do you think, that's what I was asking a while ago, do you think pre-Jesus becoming flesh had any effect on that? Well, because that's the argument.

Right. Now, whether you believe that or not. And I don't, and here's why, because the Holy Spirit wasn't available for everybody, like once Jesus came. But the Holy Spirit was still active. I mean, David got the Holy Spirit. There were people, God's people, the Spirit of God, came into them. So the Spirit was around.

He just wasn't available. Well, I've heard them say it came on them, you know, which I don't know, maybe some antics, but. Right. Well, the indwelling Holy Spirit is different than when we see the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they had his gifts. Yeah, and we'll study that one. Yeah, we'll get that.

We'll get that. But I do think it's interesting. The other story that we haven't talked about is when the guy was fearful with the army coming toward him and he's like, God, open his eyes. And when he did, he saw the Spirit. spiritual forces of good. Angels and chariots. Fire.

I think the biggest... That's Second Samuel 6th. That's Elisha, which was Elijah's... Good memory. I think the biggest problem that we have is trying to understand, because you got to remember when Jesus was raised from the dead, which we just

got through spending hours talking about this on previous podcast, his body was, had become translucent, transparent, trans, he was transfigured,

the transfigured, whatever, there's not enough trans. He was a shapeshift, because it said the door was locked and he came in, well, only a spirit can do that. By my understanding of...

Or someone who had power over dimensions that you could just be here and then be there. So my point is... Teleporter. He was a teleporter. Yeah, my point is if we have the Holy Spirit,

And there's this rival spiritual forces of evil who are capable of some of these types of actions. I mean, I don't know. But it's like when a guy opened his eyes, it was there. Well, it was there before he opened his eyes. He just couldn't see it. Right. So I think a lot of this stuff. Which was quite the same because he's looking out and the enemy is advanced on him and surrounded him.

And all of a sudden, when God opens his some eyes to see this brings this into, focus, it was like Jay's described. Then all of a sudden, the hills come alive with all these beings and fiery chariots. I mean, it's pretty incredible when you think about it. Well, it's scary. It's a little scary when you think about the negative out to get you. Yeah. And then it's very encouraging. And you think they're there to protect you? But he did say put on the full armor. Now he said, our Biles, the Spirit, you've got to put an arm, you've got to get some armor. And look, they were. all spiritual things.

Well, you said the right phrase, and we'll close with this, we don't really know because we can sort of surmise, but we're physical. We're not in that realm. We're here. So we can only just kind of read and put things together. You won't know until you get there. The being that's out there, he said, God will bring about in his, let's see, keep this commandment without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. So there's a promise Jesus

is coming back. It's 1st Timothy 6th, which God will bring about in his own time. God, the blessed and only ruler, the king of kings, the Lord of Lords, who alone is immortal, and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see to him be honored and might forever. It's a great point. It's got to me. Well, it's a great point because it also tells you Satan is not immortal. That's right. We're on the right side of this thing. So thanks for the question. I think it was Jeff. Really interesting and, you know, it's fun to just kind of wonder. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little

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