Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 284 | Jase's IRS Violation, Airline Power Grabs, and Should You Invest in Ungodly Companies?

Episode Date: May 28, 2021

Phil baptizes several generations of a family from Oregon in one day. Jase's mailbox is flooded by letters from the IRS saying he owes an absurd amount of money. Jase and Al are fed up with power grabs in the "friendly" skies, and Phil isn't seeing much of the golden rule on airplanes. Jase talks about how to handle investing in companies that aren't godly. And the guys dive into the faith of Abraham and biblical parallels in Phil's relationship with his daughter, Phyllis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So last podcast we talked about Jason's travels to Georgia, some of his three most interesting people. What about your weekend, Ed? What happened with you? You didn't travel anywhere, but you had your crew. Yeah, I had the little crew. We went up there and we met at university. Some people came in. I had a little note on it. The secretary handed me the note. They were from Bend, Oregon, and a lot of stuff coming out of Oregon in the last few months.

And I reminded them of that. I said, you know, I know y'all from Oregon. There's a lot of things coming out of there. I said, but y'all, you're looking at it, perfectly normal to me. And they smiled. But it's the first time I've seen, maybe ever, The grandparents, the parents, I think on the sun side, you had the grandparents, the parents, and the grandchild. She was about 14, it looked like 15.

They all came all the way down here to obey the gospel. The grandparents first, then the parents, and then the little granddaughter. It was a generational conversion. It was a generational conversion, and I thought it was one of the coolest things I've seen. a long time. That's really neat. I could tell they had somewhere, maybe this podcast, they had sat down and they had listened intently because I met with them before we baptized them. And then I went over the material, the gospel and everything in it. If you read the book of Romans, you would tend to think reading the first three chapters that you say, how?

and the world did this all work? Because the condemnation is on every last human being, and it's always been there. The wages of sin is death. Over here in Colossians, the Apostle Paul, if you read Romans beginning with Romans 323, but now a righteousness from God is revealed, here's what you look like before Jesus.

that's Romans 1, 2, and 3, Al. That's pre-Jesus. That's no Jesus. Here's the way you end up. Once you come to Jesus, the way he describes it in Colossians, once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds, that heart again, because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body.

through death to present you his doing, not yours. We all violate the law, you die. Well, he presents you because of what Jesus did on the cross, holy in his sight, without blemish. One of the things, the grandfather and the grandmother and the son and the daughter, the daughter said, Mr. Phil, you just wouldn't believe. the sins that we carry the sins. I said, listen, I said, I understand. Everybody is sinful. Everybody, including y'all all the way from Oregon. I said, look, in just a few minutes around here,

because of your faith in the gospel, I said, not one sin. And I quoted this, you'll be holy in his sight you'll be without blemish and free from accusation if you continue in faith established and firm not move from the whole hell out in the gospel I quoted that to him

and I said it's a wonderful y'all have really it's your most wonderful day ever I said the whole group of you all came down as one I said, this is what you look like in God's eyes. Free from an accusation, not one blemish, not one, all gone. So they were extremely happy when they came forth from the waters of baptism

and moved on back, took off back to Bandaergan. Well, you know, and it's good for us. A great group. It's good for us to meet folks. That's the same thing when I was in California a few weeks ago. I mean, there are some great people in states that we sort of assume in the rest of the country you're like, because you see some kind of bad things. You're like, oh, that whole state.

But there's always good, godly people or people that are searching. Sure. So I was in Nashville this weekend at a couple of events. One was the I Am Second premiere, because last week we mentioned that I Am Second has premiered, released a new series on their website about our family because we got some updated information, which I thought you a mom were fantastic on there. They showed your stuff from a few years ago in Reeds and Jep's too. It's kind of been remastered and done.

But I love the updated stuff because, I don't know, you and mine were just funny together. They really filmed it in a good way. Of course, I told them what you said. They did a little Q&A after we watched all the things. And it was really emotional because Phyllis was there. And so we watched her, you know, tell her story. And so she and Lisa and I got up and addressed the people that were there at the event. And I told them what Dad said.

I said, well, dad said on the podcast that when he watched it, he was embarrassed, you know, by your old life, you know, and I told him what I told you back is that, but that's what's so great about it is the gospel takes away shame. And even though we have to sometimes talk about some of our sinful past is to let people know and understand what God has done, but it was really powerful. I love doing the event. And so that night we had dinner, Jason, we had, I didn't know who he was, but Danny Goki is a singer. And so he and his wife were sitting next to us. And you're in my world.

Oh, yeah, I know. I told him that. And so he, and then Reed was there too. And so they knew a lot of the same people because Reed is in this video series. It's really good and really powerful because at the time I'd forgotten because Reed was so young when he did. This is like seven years ago when he did his piece. Well, he was still a really young guy. Now he's grown and married and all that.

but his Danny Goki, he was a great, you know, and he was on American Idol, I guess is where he got his start, which I didn't realize that because I was back when I used to watch American Idol, which is really weird. Really? He didn't win, though, right? He was like, I think he got second or third or something like that, yeah. But if you finish in the top three, you're fixed to move the needle.

Yeah, and he was telling us about new music he was working on, and really interesting. But so his story, he and his wife were on I am second. And then there was another guy from a group. Oh, man, I've forgotten the name now. Shoot. But anyway, it was an old band. It's been around a long time.

But they're a country band. And so he's older. But I looked him up because, again, I was out of my element. But he and his wife had been on there. So we were kind of all the, I have second alumni or having dinner together, some of them. But his story was amazing too because he and his wife had almost divorced. And then he told us, he and his wife told us that somebody, got our book to him.

I mean, they were about to divorce because he had been unfaithful to his wife. And, you know, and she had come to the point that she didn't think he could change. And so they read, they read our book and basically said, no, people can change. I mean, if they give it up, if they, you know, give up their sinful heart, their whatever they're, you know, loyal to, Jesus can change it. And he did. And that's the heart of Mount Lisa's story. And of course, our story is on I am second too.

But he told us, he said, you know what? God, that was a divine appointment for us to get that book because it helped us to work on our marriage. And they were holding hands, you know. I mean, it's very fulfilling to me when you know that you put your heart and soul out there for people and you realize that it makes a difference. Next night I was speaking at a, it was an outdoor event, I guess. It was in a kind of like a big old barn in Franklin. And it was for a group called Nations University.

and it was their donors. But they founded this university 25 years. It's an online, strictly online university. And, you know, I got to thinking about it when they asked me to speak. Because I always, you know, look at the organization. And, you know, we kind of tell stories about our family, of course, about Jesus. But this one, I thought, well, I'm going to do a little research into them. Well, they started an online university back in the 90s.

Well, you know, online was just not even a thing. I thought, yeah, that's pretty good visionary to say, we think the future of, you know, university is going to be online. So they sent me a video of some of their students around the world. They have probably way more foreign students than they do domestic in the states. And it was basically these, all these people from all around the world, Africa and, you know, South America. And they were reading Romans 1 16 and 17. I'm not saying the gospel, you know.

But it was just here that, I mean, I got so inspired because I didn't know what exactly I was going to speak on. And then I watched this video. And that was their deal, be a world changer of watching these students all around the world. Of course, they were very thankful for their education because the people, most people overseas can't afford anything. So they get their tuition paid for by these donors that I'm speaking to. So it really inspired me for the gospel, you know. And so I got fired up, you know. I was just doing my thing.

Of course, Kellett was there. He's on their board. and he was like, oh, you got pretty fired up. And I was like, well, I mean, how can you not be excited about the gospel? And then you're watching it. And one of the women that really struck me, she was from Portugal. And she was an international journalist. She gave her a little bit of her story.

And then she became a believer. Someone introduced Jesus to her. And, of course, just the way she was speaking with that her accent and everything. And she said, so, you know, I just decided that I needed to fully commit my to tell in his story. And it struck me when I was watching it, because, you know, she was probably good at her job, she's international journalism,

but she decided it was more important to tell the story of Jesus than human stories, which is, you know, journalism is. And sometimes you're impacted by it, but it's kind of what you talked about last time, Jay. It struck me, I thought, no, the story of Jesus is worth committing your whole life to. No matter what else you do.

It's actually true. We're all international Jesus journalists. That's exactly right. That's right. despite our flaws. Despite our flaws. We tell the story. I think that's the problem people have as they think,

well, I could never share Jesus because I'm flawed, because people can always find your flaws. Right. But somewhere in God's wisdom. And maybe that goes into what we're talking about, you know, in Romans 4 where God credits righteousness, which is a hard phrase to wrap your head around. He's the one providing.

You know, in Romans, it just keeps coming up. The righteousness is from God. I had an instance on the plane I thought was really interesting because it seems like now every time I fly somewhere, the skies are not friendly. I don't know. Somebody said, you know, fly the friendly skies. They're not very friendly anymore. That was 30 years ago. Well, you're right.

They've moved on. That won't work. Those commercials used to be so funny, though, because they're like, fly the friendly skies and what were some of the other ones? you know, keep climbing. Yeah, keep climbing. Then there was, was it Delta?

They just come out with, we'll get you there. Which is the way it is now. Maybe. What they should say is we might get you there. So we're on the plane and we're flying. And so we're due into Nashville at 2 o'clock. And this event starts at 3 o'clock.

And I know I've got to rent a car and drive at least 30 minutes. And I thought, there's no way. So I'm letting the people know. know look I'm coming in hot you know I don't know if it can be delayed but I don't know but here's what's going to happen but anyway they they did it this way so we're in Pensacola we start backing out we're getting ready to head out and we're starting heading toward the you know the main thing it's not a lot of planes there so we're fixing me in there in just a minute and all of a sudden we just stop and a flight attendant comes running by heading to the back to look at least I said

well that's it we're not going anywhere You know, when this happens, you just know commercial flight. And then the pilot comes on. He's like, we're in a taxi situation. It's very dangerous. You shouldn't be, you know, get back in your seat, you know, the pilot from up front. So somebody's called him and said, we've got a person running around back here. And so we sat there for another minute or two.

Then another flight attendant runs by. And I was like, what in the world? So everybody's trying to look back, but you can't really see that because they were in the very back of the plane. And it's a big plane. And then, so we sit there a while. And then we start going. And I said, well, I guess they got it worked out. They came back up front.

But then we were going back. And I thought, oh, my word. We're going back to the gate. So then he comes on and says, we have a person that needs medical attention. Well, then that changed everything. Because we went from like some idiot because it made it sound like you didn't know it was just running around the plane. When you know you got to sit down when you take all to now we've got a medical problem.

But everybody was just like, first everybody was kind of like looking around. Then everybody, when they said that, everybody just got super quiet. Let's take a break. And so I'm watching people because I'm wondering, well, instantly, Lisa and I looked at each other, we started praying for this person, you know? And I didn't, I- Are you all like praying out loud? No, just like, yeah, we just like leaned in together and prayed for this person.

And because we're now, like, I'm thinking, well, I'm going to miss the event. That's okay. You know, this guy, whatever's going on with this person, I know as a guy or a girl. Well, then they go back up, they open the door, the cop. come on, the paramedics come on. They go to the back, you know. And so I'm thinking, well, this is going to take a while. In about, it was only about five minutes, this little family comes walking out and the dad,

it looked like he was maybe, he was two young boys, so he's maybe 40 years old. But he looked kind of frail, so he's probably got something. But he had oxygen on, and he was walking real slow, and they were just kind of helping him. And nobody's saying anything. And his wife is like profusely apologizing to everybody on the plane. Yeah. because, you know, now people are going to be late. But, you know, it's really what I loved about it.

I mean, one was I think as believers, instantly we thought we were praying for this family. And I felt so bad for them because then she was embarrassed. You talk about the walk of shame. All these people were going to be late, you know. And yet at the same time, people were not, I mean, they were not, nobody said anything, nobody griped. I was shocked.

I expected somebody. I said, oh, it was like everybody behaved, which I was super impressed. And then the shocker of shockers was within 30 minutes, we actually took off. We didn't have to get off the plane. We didn't have to, you know, I figured. And we actually made the event. But it told me a couple of things.

One is that even people that maybe don't believe in Christ can be decent because I expected it to be worse. Because there were people like on their phones making changes because, you know, all these people, they're going places. And once you get out of the, you know, once 30 minutes can change. change everything. But they, the airlines have developed such a bad reputation through the coronavirus. Yeah. With, which so, you know, it's people are already frustrated. Yeah. To even have to do this. It is. It's not good. And you got to, and you can't, you know, the mask and it just puts on a question. I've analyzed this because I'll fly all the time. And, you know, I think it's, they have this power that's almost supernatural. And since they're not supernatural, and don't really believe in the supernatural, so it seems, they function as, oh, we're a big deal, because we have the ability to fly.

And so that's the foundation of this. That's why it's so off. Because every time I've had a bad confrontation at an airport where they're being ridiculous about whatever, I usually get to that. I said, you know, one of these days, I will, I will fly without a plane. I want to say that. And they always look, whatever they're doing, when I mention that they look up.

Of course, then they think, this guy's crazy. Of course. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I want them to think, oh, I'm crazy. Keep an eye on this one. Make this happen because I'm a crazy man. I believe I'm flying to heaven. And that's the way it comes up.

And you're right, though, about the way it's sort of escalated because of coronavirus because there was a time when they would kind of bend over backwards to fix a situation. But now, a lot of times they're just like, hey, we'll turn this plane around and, you know, they're like much more. Yeah. It's like the time the guy wouldn't let me off the plane. I told that story. You know, I mean, he put his arm up.

He was going to arm barry. This is America. I've spent my two hours on the runway, which is your little law. And to me, it just, I thought of, it's leadership. Somewhere in these positions of these leadership positions, they feel like more powerful than they are. We had a guy that a couple of flights ago, Lisa got so mad. I hadn't seen that look in her eyes in a long, long time. He said, he asked what we wanted to drink.

and we both said Coke Zero. And so, because that's what we drink. And so he- They don't offer that anymore. They did, and they're doing it again now. Oh,

so they've changed. So the guy, and we've already been delayed, weather delays and all that. It's been a, it's kind of been a hectic night. And he comes back and he has a Coke zero and a Diet Coke. And he hands Lisa the Diet Coke.

And she said, oh, I asked for a Coke Zero. And she said it nicely, you know, and he said, no you didn't you asked for a dot coke well i mean so now what happened to the customer always well exactly then then so then he he said but i've got some coke zero so he took the thing

away that's how he said i've got some he said but you said that but you ordered that go as he's walking away one more time he's telling her what she ordered and what killed me was i mean i looked over at her and looks she had in her eyes it infuriated her because he called her a liar. See, this is leadership. These big companies, because somebody sent, you sent me an email, one of the questions about the question was, how do you invest in these companies that are not godly? Of course, you know, my initial answer is, if you go down that road, you will not invest

in corporate America. Because the thought that comes to my mind there is that quote that says, When the Eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber. It's Winston Churchill. That's pretty good. I hadn't heard that. I mean, to me, that's the only thing that explains that. Somewhere the leadership direction is not trickling down to we're catering to people.

I was really shocked that Lisa didn't. address him because she's pretty bold. She didn't. And so he brought the code zero back and he didn't say anything else and at least didn't say anything. She didn't challenge him. And I said, I cannot believe you didn't say something about that because I knew she was mad. And she said, well, the way they aren't out. I mean, we already went through all this for three hours.

They may have kicked me off the plane. And she was right. It's such an intense environment now. If you just challenge somebody, even if we're calling your liar, they'll kick your butt off the plane, you know, in a hard. heartbeat. You know, it's a short little phrase, but do unto others, as you would have them do to you. Right. You say, yeah, that's a big deal. Unless you're flying on an airplane. It's kind of like, ha, ha, ha, yeah, okay, yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. But there's more to that than meets... That's true.

And I will say, in her defense, by the time we got to the thing, she was nice to him on the way out, she told them to have a nice day. And I thought, well, that was good. She let it go. By the time we got there, she cooled out. But who likes to be called a liar? It costs nothing to be courteous. And I mean, look, I'm not saying in our area, too, there's one of the, my wife all the time gets on tendons about when she goes to a fast food restaurant, which I don't go. But she does.

She's like, I can't believe I'm giving these people my money. And they're just sticking a bag out, out the window. You know, my wife is, she's the one grabbing the bag. She's like, you're welcome. I gave you my money. Somehow that doesn't surprise me. She can't help it. It's like her one thing that sets her off.

She's like, I'm coming here. You're making money. I'm giving you my service and money. You know, I'm taking time out of my life. And you can't even say thank you. It's just here?

No. And they wonder why I don't frequent town. Well, there you go. Downs and plains, well, we're still. Because you went to a town, right? But to go back to the point who wrote the letter, I mean, that is a tough issue as far as, you know, what our role is. But always go back to Jesus had a reputation that was not good because he hung around tax collectors. which is look even today let's face it how do you view toxic collectors yeah i mean not not good

missy's in austin so i'm getting the mail and i'm just seeing these stacks of letters from the rs and i'm like panicking i'm like should i open these i mean what what is going on and the next day here they come again and it's like urgent so i was like i guess i got to break this thing open and somebody is not doing their job in my organization. So I open it up and look, when I read the first few lines, I thought, we're going to jail. You are in breach, you're in. So I read through there and I look down at the end,

I owe $10. So I said, oh, well, maybe it's the cumulative effect. So I open the next one. Oh, no, it's the same letter. For the 10 bucks. So I opened the next one and it was like, you've been passed off to the group that executes the delivery. You're past. This is all over $10?

No wonder this country is struggling. You know what you call that? The efficiency of the federal government. You have more than $10 worth in your stack. Hang on. Let's take a break. These two branches need to get together. And look, they're sending this out every day.

Yeah. One of them is saying, you owe $10. And the other one says, you've been turned over to collections. So I finally took a picture of the letter and sent it to me. And I said, they're coming to get us. I don't know how to pay the $10. But evidently, if we don't pay this $10, we're going to jail. So, but what I was going to say is Jesus had a bad reputation.

And I feel like if you work hard, and I mean in a worldly, where's the verse that says we're in the world but not of the world? First John. Yeah. I just think that's, you know, the way we should view it. And you're taking money, especially from an investing company. Okay. so they are corrupt. And you invest in that business.

You're not approving of that business. You're trying to make some money. You're taking the money that they're getting and you're putting it to a way more noble venture. And you've got to remember making money in the grand scheme of things is way down on the list of priorities. It sure is not going to get you to heaven.

But I feel the same way is about any kind of service you provide as a worker. I mean, you're not, Let's say you're into long care. You're not going to interview the people that you're mowing their grass and say, now, how do you feel about, you know, and you pick out the top ten issues. But we're fine with that. But then we jump over to a, you know, a stock or whatever.

And we say, oh, well, I can't support them. I'm not trying to support them. Right. Trying to make some money. Right. I mean, so, I mean, that's the way I feel I know people disagree. with me because we've gotten those letters too. And that's fine. I think it comes down to that question of that situation where the verse, I think it's in Corinthians where it says everything is

permissible, but not everything is beneficial. And then he went into this idea about some people's consciences get affected in different ways. You know, they had food that was cooked as a a sacrifice to idols and so they back then they had this big controversy on whether it's a sin to eat that food right so you got some bacon here that was meant for an idol but you don't believe in that idol and so you're sitting over there looking around like some of our crew saying yeah but it's still good bacon that's right i i just want to eat a bacon sandwich and it's right there and it's free but some people that bothers and if that bothers you will don't do it

but you think about it it was pretty rich and hypocritical for some of those early Jewish brothers in my opinion to be this way towards the Gentiles because of this thing Jay's is talking about because of this practice when God had opened the floodgates for them too

but they still wouldn't eat stuff either they were holding on to the food laws like crazy and even Peter who, who got the vision and got the orders that we're good to go. Don't worry about that anymore. He's still struggling with it. We found out later.

Paul had to tap him on the shoulder and say, hey, Peter, you know, you're hanging out with all our old Jewish buddies. I get it. And you know that Paul understood it, but he had to walk away. But Paul got it because you remember Jason mentioned in Acts when he shaved his head the one time. He had Timothy circumcised. I mean, he railed in Galatians about adding circumcision to the gospel, but before he took Timothy on the road.

He got, you know, teenage boy, he circumcised it. So what I'm saying is Paul understood the idea of all things to all men. That's right. The gospel is the most important thing, which I think supports your view. You don't compromise your character based on your, and even though we're in the world, I mean, I've seen people, and y'all, y'all know them, who take this so far where they're like, you got a guy that hadn't had a job in eight years because he's like, well, I'm just trying to find, you know, a guy. widely environment.

And so, so you're not working, you know, so then, well, what about the passages that say you're supposed to provide for your family?

Yeah. I mean, so to me, it's kind of like that. It's just, God didn't call us to be a policeman. That's his job. And,

you know, we're in Romans 4, and if you just needed one verse to prove my point, verse 15 of chapter 4 says, because law, brings wrath.

Right. And you say, what? You know, when you read in Romans 1, where it says the wrath of God is being revealed, why? Because when you're under law, wrath is coming. That's it. That's right. Because it's not that he's angry. It's just you have done something that is not in the character and will of God.

Right. And when that happens, there's a same. Separation. Call it wrath. Call it separation because God, if he was going to be the great God that he is, could not give his approval over something that is opposite of his nature. But if you think about it, it's the purpose of law, and not just in the biblical law, but any law.

I mean, the reason our country was a country founded on laws was that we have a certain way we think people are to live. And things happen. And then somebody says, you know, as a people, we don't want to live. The behavior is the bad. So they make a law only to point out the bad behavior. And we're not going to allow that is the purpose of the law.

And so even in a practical sense, that's the purpose of law is to highlight bad behavior and say, we're not going to live that way. Unfortunately, when you have flawed people making law, you get some crazy law. I mean, you get some stuff that's insane. And yet you still, if you decide you're going to be a U.S. citizen, I mean, look, when I'm on the plane, I don't want to wear the mask, but you know what? They come on the thing and they say it is federal law. Yeah. For you to wear this mask.

And if you don't wear it, if you decided you're not going to wear it, you're breaking federal law. That's why the— So I wear the mask. That's why the rules, the rules are very carefully laid out. That's right. Love God. Love your neighbor. Right.

But keep it back right there. That's right. Because where there's no law, there's no transgression. other words, if you don't have all the rules you put on yourself, you won't have to worry about it. But they mound up rule after rule after rule, and they're going around feeling guilty when they break a rule that they voluntarily put on themselves. Not God. Not God. And let's take another break.

And so what makes this so interesting to me, the reason Paul uses Abraham as his illustration. Because all of a sudden, remember we've been talking about this condemnation, you know, No one is righteous. This is what happens. And then all of a sudden he pops Abraham in to his letter. And the reason he uses him, because he has three or four different examples, law is one of them. Circumcision is another one. He mentions that one.

Which is a form of a law, though. That's right. It was a physical mark that started with Abraham. I mean, the first person that was circumcstructed was him and then his family. And that was a physical mark. And there were reasons why. But what's interesting is Abraham pre-executive. dated law. I mean, the law of Moses, all that. So that was the whole point is he was a man of faith

because, and then he even makes the point in here about circumstances. He said, did Abraham, was he faithful before or after he was circumcised? Because the Jews now, all these thousands of years later, they're making a big deal about circumcision. He said it was before. Yeah. He was the original, the rule is there are no rules. That's right. Exactly. I mean, how would you like to live in that live in that environment. Oh, yeah, exactly. Which still they had a need for solutions. You think, oh, well, they were all just living in blissful peace.

No, they were warring. It's the same. When you take God out of the equation, you can come up with any kind of system known to man. There's going to be evil, just like Romans 1, trickling down, and death has always been. been the instrument of we're better than you or I'm mad and I'll take you out. I mean, it just, that's just the way our society is. That's why it says law brings wrath or even the lack of it

is going to bring the same wrath because you're still breaking things that are against God's way, which is, that's why the other side of this coin is faith is based on a, promise because that promise is saying I'm going to trust that God is all knowing and all powerful and he knows what's best for not only a society but for you so I want to talk about that just because that's a good point that takes me where I want us to go so you talk about promise he uses the word credit is the word Paul used here which I wish I had looked up the Greek word of that but he says Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness it's really interesting this concept of credit and faith

It's just what you just said. It's a promise. So when you take out credit, you take out a loan. The credit had to be there because the death of Jesus on a cross to take away the sins of the world, including Abraham. Right. He wasn't there yet. That's right. So he's accepting what God is telling him by faith, and it's being credited to him to the blood is shed.

Then it goes back to get him. Exactly. You're talking about 4,000 years forward. That's correct. So the idea is... There was none of them received what was promised the Hebrew writer said. But they understood that only be made perfect with us after Jesus came. That's the last verse of Hebrews 11, which was his point.

He had all those guys. And then he's like, none of them received would have been promised. I mean, you had Abraham in the middle of that, which is more fascinating to me, is that he reasoned the resurrection. Yeah. Four thousand years before. happened. He thought, evidently, this God can raise dead people. He said through my offspring, All nations be blessed. Now he says, kill your offspring. He said, I guess he's going to raise him from

you. But you're talking about faith. Well, that's what I mean. That's why it culminated. It was so powerful when it came to that. So when I went to Africa a few years ago, first time I was over there. and I met these businessmen and so we were talking and they were there from Ghana people in Africa they just travel country to country it's weird because it's different

from our environment so I said something about how do you take out a loan to start a business you know in America you're going to start a business you probably don't have the capital at front so you take out a business loan

and they were like take out a loan what is that I was like you know like credit they were like credit what is that and I said well then I explained to them kind of the credit system in America, you take out a loan, you're promising a bank that you're going

to pay this money back as you make money in your business, personal, whatever. They were like, people, people, do they pay it back? And we're like, well, some of them don't, some don't. But I said, most people, yeah, if they're going to build a success, that's what they have to do. If they then keep expanding their business. And they were like, but they were looking at it as such a confused look as like, what people would pay it back. Like the concept never even occurred to these guys. And these are business guys. So when they build a- get the money, they figure they got them slick. Oh, he said they just moved to another country in Africa.

It would be like, we'd never pay anything back. So they build their houses like it takes years because you got to do it. They got too many countries in one continent. That's right. The borders are too. But it's hard to leave the U.S. I mean, a lot of things got to happen. We're surrounded by water.

I mean, you go to Canada or Mexico. Yeah, but most time people are still going to track you down. But it intrigued me because I realized they didn't really understand the process of credit. But that really is what he's talking about here, just what we said. Like, it's the promise God made him. So if you go back to Genesis 12, he just, he calls Abraham. He's like, he's 75 years old at this point.

And he calls him and he says, I want you to go to a country that I'm not going to tell you where it is or how to get there. You're just going to have to trust me that I'll let you know when you're there. And so Abraham, which he just took his wife and his nephew and a few other people and they just took off. And then later he tells them, you know, the promised land and where they wound up, which is Canaan. But it was really interesting from the get-go. Abraham shows he was the sort of person who understood, if I believe, then I'm going to understand later what it's all about.

So I think that sort of heart is where he is. And really that's- You would want that to be the father of your faith. That's right. That's exactly right. Because he's normal human being, made mistakes. I mean, he's... Well, the idea they can't understand it is. completely acceptable because the same reason people can't accept grace.

That's right. Now is because they're like, well, but what about the people who won't pay it back? I mean, because it's like you're putting me in a situation. I'm not honest. So I think that's why he said in, where was it, 16, he said, therefore the promise comes by faith so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed. I mean, just think, you got a promise, you got faith, you got grace, and you got a guarantee to all Abraham's offspring, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of faith of Abraham. He is the father of us of us all. Which, by the way, that meant Jew and Gentile. That's exactly right. That's what he meant. Anybody with faith in Paul says that in Galatians as well.

Look, this, this covers everybody. Faith is what gets you there. And not just because law and circumcision and all these other things. But I also just wanted to mention this. In 17, he says, you know, Abraham was the father of faith. But then he said, as it is written, I have made you a father of many nations. He is our father in the sight of God. And then, speaking of God, in whom he believe the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

I love that verse. Oh, I do too. You can like meditate on that and think, what are the implications of that? But it's the promise that's going to trickle down to us. You're like, why are y'all doing this? Why are you talking about this? Why is you making such a big deal about this? It's like, because the guy we follow raises the dead.

That's right. And makes things that the world thinks is the most important thing ever. I mean, law and order. of any sort, and he's having a system based on grace. I mean, if you ever miss the grace of God as a believer in modern day, I don't know how in the world you can read Romans 14 through 17 and try to put yourself under some kind of law system that is guaranteed for wrath. And yet it happens every day.

Let's take one last break. I want to read that verse that you alluded to earlier, that because in this conversation, it's right there. Hebrews 1139, these were all commended for their faith, and that includes Abraham and a lot of other people. Yet none of them received what had been promised. See, that's the credit. God had planned something better for us, meaning in his time, they're in Hebrews, so that only together with us would they be made perfect. And that goes forward. So if you imagine the timeline, just being a straight line, and there's the cross stuck right in the middle of it. Everything went back, the first to Adam all the way back, to everything going

forward. He was operating under credit from God, dies, but he's really not dead. Right. He just, his body falls asleep. He leaves his tent, and he just waits. So now the event comes, here comes Jesus. I mean, he's probably, Abraham was thinking, boy, what a ride that was. And you said it a minute ago, Abraham was not. He was just like any other flawed person. I mean, he's called the Father Faithful, which makes him pretty special. But look, when you go back and read Genesis 12 through 22, and by the way, any of you want to do a deeper dive, I suggest you go back and read that, because the story is incredible. But he had some, he had some slip-ups along the way. Yeah. I mean, at one point there, it was so many years had gone by that he said, you know what?

Sarah came to him and said, why don't you just sleep with my, you know, concubine here, marry her? And she's young, you have a child by her. And he did. Ishmael. And then he thought Ishmael was the one. And then God comes back, almost 25 years later, God comes back. So, okay, now you're ready. You and Sarah are going to have a child together. And she laughed. And he laughed. And he laughed. Yeah. He was like, yeah, that's going to be something. I bet this is really going to happen. Then he said an amazing thing. He said, if only Ishmael could live under your blessing. In other words, he was like, God already got a son. He's 13. We just circumcise him. Why can't it be him but because it wasn't it was no you've got to believe what i'm telling you and i told you you and sarah would have a son so i mean he struggles like anybody i think we i remember studying with

a person and they used abraham as an example of why they didn't believe in god because there's like i mean this guy's a you know sexual whatever they call yeah and you know oh and then he has a kid when he's a hundred oh and then let's go this is this is love let's go kill your child. That's right. I mean, they were upset about it. I was sitting there thinking, well, you pomp his windbag. We're all flawed.

We're all flawed. And death is not a problem. He got it figured out, which is a lot more than I can say for you. That's exactly right. Because if God can't raise the dead or if we can't come up with a way to do that, we're all screwed. That is it. I mean, you can go nirvana.

and we're just going to become the energy of the Brad Pitt style and just float around as an energetic. But, I mean, to me, that would take so much faith that you would have to literally suspend all intellectual capacity. That's based on nothing other than I don't have a better idea. So maybe we're just energy. I mean, really? Well, in Jason, verse 18 of four,

another one of my favorite phrases tells you just what makes Abraham so special. Against all hope. Yeah, I was fixed to read that. Which, I mean, against all hope, there seems to be hopeless. Which is representative, though, in our own little worlds.

That's right. We're all at a hopeless state where you're like, what can I do? What else can I do? Against all hope, Abraham, in hope, believe. And so became the father

of many nations just been said to him. So, you know, it's that going forward is the mindset. I wanted to read the rest of it. You know, when he got to 19, it says without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead. They keep saying that. That's the Hebrew writer said that too. Since he was about 100 years old and Sarah's womb was also dead.

It wasn't as good as day. It was dead. Dead room. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, which is an incredible statement. It is. But was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, which is the opposite of what happens of Romans 1, where it says they neither glorified God or, because we're all in that

hopeless state and they're like, forget God. Why is this bad stuff happening? He didn't do that. Being fully persuaded that God had the power to do what he had promised. And that's where it gets personal. because really your decision-making process and life comes down to that. Does God have the power to do what he promised? That's right.

And if you say yes, then your immediate reaction should be, you know, get my head out of the porn side or, you know, I mean, whatever that trickles down to your list of sins. This is why it was credited to him. That's righteousness. The words it was credited to him were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness for us who believe in him, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead. And remember, it's the long game because from Genesis 12, this starts, he's 75, to Genesis 22 when he's asked to sacrifice Isaac now. You know how long that was? 40 years. That was a 40-year odyssey of believing what God told you to do.

And we get all shook up in four minutes. 40 minutes. That's why that's happening. I mean, I'm trying to do the right thing. Why is God just cursing me? We said, my faith will be strong for 40 minutes. But after that, I expect some answers. And it really is, it shows you that the idea that this is a lifetime and a lifestyle.

which we're going to get into in chapter 5 of dealing with disappointments and failures and mistakes and lawbreaking and I mean it's just like the Marine Corps says onward ever backward never follow the tanks or die I mean well we've got Winston Churchill Marine Corps today but we're trying to figure out we didn't retreat we just had a rapid advance to the back that's right Yeah, because the story grows. And I started out talking about the I am second thing we did. That's what I thought about with Phyllis standing up there.

I thought, you know, Phyllis is 45 years old. And we've talked about your life, dad, and what God has done. But the year she was born was the year you committed your life to him. And we never knew about her until 44 years later. So when you trust God. That's almost like a biblical story. It is. I mean, it is a biblical story because it's a modern-day verse.

of exactly what we're talking about. But the way they wrote these letters in the last thing I'll say is we go to chapter five all the time, not four very often of Romans. And you read that first verse, it means more knowing what this faith was based on, even through Abraham all the way to Jesus being faithful to the plan and executing it. So you get to verse one when it says, therefore. Therefore, since this is based on the grace of God, it is based on his righteousness and he is the one that made all the you know providing for our problems it says

we have been justified through faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ so no matter what you say or what you're going through God is figured out a way to bring peace to our lives through his righteousness, his plan, his forgiveness, his grace. And it means more when you understand what it took and for some of the other people of our past, our faithful fathers. Man, what faith does they?

Let's look out way out into the future and believe that God's got a plan. Yeah, I call it the chapter five to me. I call it the fruit of the faithful, which we'll get into next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

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