Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 289 | It's Dangerous to Sleep Next to Phil — Just Ask Miss Kay

Episode Date: June 6, 2021

Phil shares the monkey business that goes on in his dreams and why it can be dangerous to share a bed with him. Al admits he's been known to be a danger to himself in bed. Jase reveals the crazy dream he once had about a girl in trouble and what she later told him was going on in her life at the time. The guys also discuss what dreams mean, what a lot of the religious world misses, and what Romans 6 tells us about sin, law, and grace. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? We were eating supper last night down there, Phel and Kay's, she was like kind of in, I could tell she was sore. I said, what happened? She said, oh, your dad had a crazy dream. I said, do what?

Phil was sitting there. Was he fighting something again? And what Phil then told me, he's like, yeah, yeah. How did you put that, Phil? You were walking in the woods. I was somewhere, and I mean, a monkey just came out of nowhere and descended, was descending downward. From the sky?

From the sky. Like a lack of woods. And I just, and I just dove. and caught the thing. Why, I'm not quite sure. And at that moment, I heard a wailing. You thought the monkey was wailing. I thought, well, God didn't have, and I heard, right.

And I woke up out of the dream. And I was looking at Miss Kaye over there on that side of the bed. And I had just grabbed the upper, just right in here. I mean, you can see my handmarks the next morning. She was bruised. Yeah. So with, you know, catching the monkey. So that was where that dream came from.

I do not know, but I have dreams. Have you ever thought about having? There's a lot of battles. There's a lot of battles in my dreams. Battles. I mean, it's groups. Humanity is coming in a mighty horde. And I'm staying in my ground.

And it's just, it's just. I mean, for some reason, I see. It's dangerous, dangerous living in danger. No, what's dangerous is sleeping. That's what I thought. That's the most dangerous places. All these older couples that I bet that they say that they sleep in separate bedrooms, I think. Why would you do something like that?

No, you know. After I hear their story, I'm like, maybe I should be sleeping in separate bedrooms. I told mom that, but she's like, she said, no, no, I've got my pillow defense up, you know, use the pillow, keep him at bay. I said, mom, I don't, some of the battles he's getting into up. In this case, I went over the pillows to buy a barrier. Because you jumped, you had to leap to catch the monkey. I had to leap to catch them.

And when I leaped to catch the monkey, you know, that's when my hand was on my woman. Yeah. And she wailed out. She woke up and you woke up and y'all thought, what happened? That's it. What was your first words once you were awake enough to realize what has happened here? Because she said something about like, what happened? And I said, I just.

jumped and caught a monkey, which she said, do what? So it was a crazy dream. There's got to be some dream analyst somewhere that can answer these. I've never actually talked to somebody who was my age that had dreams like that, but I mean, I'm sure there's somewhere out here. I can't even, can you even remember? I mean, it was in deep sleep because I was shocked. Well, obviously. woke up.

What happens, I'd say, every, you know, two or three times a year, I'm duking it out. Have you done this your whole life, or has this been more of a recent thing? I'd say this has been ongoing. It could have been. I know it's been at least five or six years. I'd say none of this went on before I came to Jesus. Nope. No, drunken stupers waking up, not know where you are, all this stuff.

No, none of these came about in my drinking day. days, alcoholing days. Well, or that you remember. This is all basically recent since I started following Jesus. Whether that has anything to do with it, I'm not quite sure. So you've been following Jesus for 45 years. So recent is a relative. I would say it's more since we were doing the show.

I don't ever remember mom telling anything about it before then. So we were talking about the last five to seven years. I'd say, I'd say. Because I remember us at the airport the first time I ever heard one of these stories. and some guy was standing over you and you were trying to peel his toes off the clip and it was mom's pinkers. It was Ms. Kay's foot.

And I was trying, he was trying to kick me off the cliff. I'm hanging by a thread. This is a western probably Matt Dillon. I said if I can bend the old toes, how to get him off. Unfortunately, it was my wife's foot. I had a hole up. Oh my goodness.

Well, look. People out in the world listen to this is there. That's what happens when you become a follower of Jesus right there. They're nuts. No, I don't know. Well, it was funny because we had Dallas and his family were here. And we had a good lunch down there after we did the podcast. But he was standing there beside me when this story was unveiled.

What was he? Was he laughing? Wide eye. Like I said, hey. Welcome to crazy land. it's a bit crazy here and then right on cue sigh said hey man caught a monkey i don't see what the big deal is see that's the scary part that it makes perfect sense to sigh yeah of course you know i don't i can't remember dreams but about three years ago i had such a rigor i had fever one night

went to bed and just like bundled up you know you're just trying to sweat it out it finally broke like two or three in the morning, but after it broke, I had a rigor so violent that in my sleep, I tore the meniscus in my knee. I mean, you literally tore it. I tore it.

I buckled so hard in the bed that my knee buckled inward. And so, I mean, I read the time, I mean, I can feel the bone trying to come out the side of my knee. It's that bad. And I'm hollering at Lisa, and she's a lot.

I'd already been sick all night. And she's up. She doesn't have any sleep. She's like, what is it? I was like, you got to get over here and help me get out of the bed. She pulled me up out of the bed. As soon as my weight hit down on it, it popped back in. Torn meniscus.

Yeah, I never heard of that one. In your sleep. I mean, it's just so embarrassing to have to tell that story. You're like, well, I tore my meniscus. No, what I says, I tore it in bed. It was like, just leave it at that. It was only a drink. Yeah, if you go there in bed, you're like, I was in bad when I tore my.

That was deep sleep, sure enough. It was a rigor. I just remember when I woke up, it was such a violent body shake. But then I felt that, you know, instant pain. So you're like, man. Do you know, you think about the book of Revelation, when he says John, they said he was in the spirit. It seems like he was having a dream. Well, that's how the book of Revelation came.

What about what is it where Paul was talking about where I didn't know if I was really in the third heaven? or I was just having a vision. So he had one of those moments too where he went up. I mean, he went there in some format. So you're not, you're right. And he basically said, I can't talk about it.

Right. Yeah, he's like, I can't even tell you. This, your mind wouldn't, you can't. So what we talked about in the last podcast is that sometimes there

just aren't human words to describe something heavenly. Yeah. And that's kind of the impression you get me. I'm looking up. I'm looking up. I did a Google search. It says there are 21 dreams recording in the, Bible, six in the New Testament. Of course, they got the Jacob's Ladder.

Jacob's Ladder is probably the most famous one. Yeah, where he basically saw, you know, the future in a dream. But yeah, I've always thought that because you're in, because your subconscious is still has an awareness, but you're, but the outer part of you, the conscious part is resting or trying to rest. So I always wanted if that was a sort of a doorway to the other realm, you know, because a lot happens. Has to mean something. I mean, Daniel. You have the world's most awesome.

I'm speaking in terms here that's, you know, it's not logical, but it is logical. We have brains encased sitting up on top of our body that you can upload material. and they claim about 15 or 20% of it is actually used. Max, that's right. You have way more that... It's like a supercomputer that never gets turned. That part never gets even heard of. It is a computer.

Yeah. It's the ultimate computer. And, you know, amazingly, the Holy Spirit comes your way. When you come to Jesus, God himself, you're basically, you have been given imperishable seed, as Peter would have it. Then Paul told the glasins, what you'll see coming from that,

love, joy, peace, patience. That's coming at your mode of operandi. It's a series of qualities that will begin to burst forth from you. Right. And then you're past all of the caring on and all that. All of a sudden, you're down to love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. And what's fueling that is the uploading of material from the Word of God inside what the Spirit wrote. You begin to digest that.

And it's like... Think about all the... And you begin to see a stark difference between good and evil. and it's coming out of you and your dreams are all over the place because you just think of the material that's put in. You know, Jesus said it's like, you know, out of the overflow of the heart, which is your brain pan, your computer sitting on top of your shoulders, out of the overflow of that, a man speaks.

I mean, his wordage change. Think about all the words associated to your brain function in the Bible, heart, spirit, because when it's talking about my heart, it's not talking about the pump. That's right. What's amazing is... It's talking about that which brings emotion and intellect. You remember, Daniel had the power to interpret dreams. That's the greater power.

But he got that from God. And which goes back to humility. Joseph had it too. Well, you think about it, though, to be humble enough to be used like that and not go around saying, let me tell you something. Yeah. I can interpret your dreams. Which, by the way, that was Joe.

Moses's problem. He had that gift at 17 years old. But even at the birth of Jesus, he had to learn humility. That's why he went through a lot. Mankind has gone through these things. They are in desperate, they've been on a desperate search to figure out all these psychiatric community. They're trying to figure out.

And they've come up with all these phrases, you know, Sigmund Freud and all this, that we were taught in. college, but I looked at that later, and I thought, that's the biggest bunch of bull ever. The Ed and all these different things, yeah. Well, I do think you remember when the birth of Jesus, you know, Joseph had a dream, basically saying it was safe, and the wise men had a dream. But then when you fast forward all the way to his death, Pallet's wife came out there and

said, hey, you need to leave him alone because I had a dream last night. Yeah, that's right. A bad call. He's righteous. I mean, of course, he didn't listen. But there's a lesson in there somewhere.

Right, because that's hard to explain because obviously events were set in motion that were going to happen. I mean, you know, and yet at the same time, she had that dream. I will say this.

One time I had a dream, there was a girl I taught in junior high and seen a girl in two or three years. had a crazy dream she was in trouble so i thought how do i handle this because her parents go to our church so i asked her parents i was like how's she doing she was at college you know oh great no problem i was like they're like why why do you ask i was just checking on her you know but i thought well do i stop here or was that real because i had no reason to have this dream but So here's the interesting part.

Years later, they become the youth pastors for a youth. And now my kids are going over to their house. And so why not we were talking? And I said, look, I know this is going to sound crazy. I'm going to tell you because I just felt like I needed to say that. There was a time when you were in college. I had a crazy dream that you were in trouble, like, drowning and I said so I asked your parents you know and look she got kind of

teary out and she's like oh that was that was the time of my life where I was way away from god you know so then she's like that is so crazy that that you said she's like I wish you would have you know done something but it worked out anyway but I did think that was really weird pretty weird now I'm not sure what we do about it but let's take let's take a break well and you hear that a lot from people i mean like and it's hard to know what to do with that because like you can have a dream where you're catching a monkey or you can have a dream where somebody's in trouble i mean or you can have some other weirdo thing in your mind so i don't know it's hard to it's just a weird realm to get into and it's all over the bible i mean there's

no doubt about i think when you start looking at the evidence of creation and how we got here dreams or, I mean, we're in Romans, and, you know, when he says that you can see his divine nature and eternal power, I just think the fact that we do have dreams, that we sleep, that we, it's just hard for me to wrap my head around anything besides something intelligent, being the origin of how we got here. I mean, dreams are complicated. Yeah. We're not even sure.

We're in a state of disarray when this occurs. But even the whole, as dad was describing her, even the whole human brain to spirit, to animating force in your life is complicated. Because once a person is dead, if someone donates their body to science, they start cutting you up. And it's pretty much just parts in the brain is nothing spectacular.

It's just to, you just look at it and you're like, but then when you look at this person's life, and what they could accomplish. I mean, how is it that Dallas Jenkins can have a vision to make movies and where does that come from? I don't have that.

I mean, I couldn't. I mean, I have a production company, but I can't do what he does. Always remember that when he would share Jesus like when we were young, people would come in. He always tried to find out what they could do. But it's amazing that everybody had something. That's right.

Even if they weren't doing anything, they're like, there's bound to be something that you feel like you feel like you can do that's productive. And everyone to the person would come up with something. And the fact that they're just like, you know what? Nope, I'm the one person on planet Earth that can actually do nothing and I don't want to do anything.

There's always something. Or I see a person that can just sit down and look at parts and then just start putting it together and just build something. I marvel at that because it just looks like some kind of puzzle I could never solve. Oh, I do it. I just have a lot of parts left over. And then it doesn't last long. I look at Phyllis's husband, the artist.

There's another one. And he just, with ease, he can bring stuff, make pictures, and they just, you're like, how in the world? He can look at you, look at a picture of you, and he can draw your exact face. Yeah. On a piece of paper. He'll have a cell phone up there and mounted. Yeah. And there'll be a picture on it.

And then he's recreating it and paint. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, people, their features. I've wondered about them. I'm saying, man. I mean, how do you do that? He's got that.

And he had the ability he knew early on, he said, but then obviously got better and better. A young boy, he knew. Yeah. Just like he had that. But again, where does that come from? If you're just looking at a mass where there's electric firing in there. It doesn't, if you just tried to do it from a strictly humanistic evolutionary scale, it'd be really difficult to explain all that nuance, don't you think? I mean, without some kind of

spiritual connection. Fearfully and wonderfully made. I mean, you're like, yeah, that's, everybody has a skill set of some sort. I do think it goes back to what Phil said, though. What you put in, I do think affects, I'm not sure where the monkey falling from the sky come from. I'm not sure how that got put in there somewhere, but I do think as a general rule. It was like someone was in danger, and I was trying to stop. It was a bad monkey.

Bad monkey. Have you watched Planet of the Apes recently? That might have triggered you. Well, you wouldn't have seen a monkey on Matt Dillard. Be careful, Al. We're going in. There were no monkeys on gun smoke. Deep waters.

Oh, that's pretty good. Romans 6, just off the top of my head, maybe I'm wrong here, but Romans chapter 6 mentions slavery, slaves to this, slaves to that, more than any book in the Bible. Slaves. Slaves to righteousness, slaves of God. I think in the Roman culture, that was how they operated. They had levels of importance of people. And it wasn't like when we hear slaves today, we think of what happened in America, which was horrible.

And even this in a degree was horrible in that it may have not been based on gender or color. or but there were still classes of people. Actually, it was mostly based on economic issues. So you had these debtor prisons, which obviously if you go to prison and debt, you're never going to be able to pay it off. It doesn't help you. So the tradeoff was, well, you worked for me for X amount of years to pay off your debt. I mean, most of what you're seeing.

So the idea was it was voluntary, which you kind of get that idea in Romans 6. The idea is I'm volunteering to be a slave. to use that word. If you pay me. Right, right. Right. And so, but for most of them, the reason it was so bad is because they were just working off debt. So it wasn't like you were making any money.

I mean, he took slavery as a goal that must be reached. That's right. Which is the idea of servitude and submission. I would say. Well, they're using, yeah, because since it was a voluntary response. But it wasn't, it's anti-gospel from the sense of that. somehow another, there are people better than you just because of how much money they make or how much power they have.

Because Jesus says the umbrella, he loves everybody. We're all in the same boat. His grace was for all, which I think the bigger picture of Roman 6 was about grace because he just came off this idea of the law was here, which brought on the trespass. and it became greater. Well, read that. Read verse 20 and 21 again, Judge.

Yeah, and became sin. It says verse 20 or 5.20, the law was added so that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased, well, if you just stop right there, you're like, well, why is that even viewed upon as a positive? Because that's what people say. Why is this thing start off about God's wrath being revealed and given the law? Why do you give us the law if we can't keep it? it well he explains it so that the trespass might increase the more wrongdoing you do the more

sin that comes out another way of putting that is that the purpose of law was to illuminate sin I mean he already says it clear sin was already happening you know from the very beginning it's bad to start with but he said it's actually worse that's right because once law is made it just illuminates it you know and it's the same that comes forward to even to today, we talk about in our culture. Laws are made, and then it illuminates behavior of people that break the law. But this is not going to make sense to people unless they recognize that God has no sin. Right.

So here's God on the other side. So whatever you claim to be doing in the name of God, if it's sinful, it's not godly. That's right. He's not endorsing that, nor can he. Right. He is separated from sin. and he's incapable of doing anything unholy and wrong. So that's where it gets tricky with people understanding this,

because they're like, well, how did he create us then? But then when you think about it logically, which on our side of the belief system, we believe that babies are innocent. Right. Because you read a list of sins and you say, they're not doing that. That's right.

Now, some people say, well, they're under the curse of Adam's sin, However, and there is some truth to that. Well, maybe the nature of one day you're going to sin. But that's only because it was the first one. And remember, Adam had a choice. It's not like he, I mean, he was there and there was a choice. It was just one thing. I mean, it's pretty simple law.

Don't eat that. That was the rule. But he also said, or you'll die. Yeah. And so when he eats it, you're thinking, well, he didn't really die. I mean, just because you're thinking physical, which he kind of did because later on, it's just not right then. He was separated from God, which is a form of, you know, death as far as being separated from God. But then he lost access to the other tree.

Remember, Adam and Eve had never seen death either. They wouldn't have even known what death was. I mean, they ate fruit and plants. They didn't even eat animals. So at that point, death was foreign to them. So you think about how Satan's lie was so tricky because he said, well, you won't die. You know, he comes back. He's trying to convince him to go against God.

And he says, you won't die. Which was a lie. Which was a lie. Which goes with Romans. That's what I'm saying. We start off Romans 1. He said, you exchange the truth of God for a lie. That's right.

You think. Yeah, you have that list of sins of Romans 1. When you do those things, you think there are no consequences. And the truth is, you. Yes, there are consequences. Spiritual death. And the ones who say, well, since I don't believe in God, how can I be guilty of sin?

Because I don't even believe in sin. Right. And that goes back to it was before law. Let's take another break. That sin has always been. And that's why he made the point to the moralist. He said, you're no better than anybody else because you've violated your own conscience. Leading up to Romans 6th, you know, he said, what shall we say?

what can we conclude are we any better meaning any group of people not at all what you mean we've already that's romans three romans three about verse nine and ten we've already made the charge and he keeps elaborating on it that jews and gentiles alike are all under sin well that's everybody he drops down below there we know that whatever the law says it says those who are under the law so that every mouth may be silenced. Shut up. You're guilty as charged. And you read that.

You're like, you know, he's saying, you're not getting out of here alive because of your sins. I'm going to have to do something because you can't. That's for sure. Well, one of the brilliant things that Paul does in the whole book of Romans, I think, and a lot of the religious world misses this even to this day, because they consider everything in Old Testament, New Testament, but you got to remember that everything before Moses was before any kind of codified law. So, I mean, even though you had all these people you're reading about that Moses wrote about in the Torah,

you know, the first five books, that was all, there was no law. No. I mean, and of course, it looked like it. And in their minds, they weren't worried about breaking a command. Right. They just lived a life of sinful. behavior, but they didn't stumble upon it and see it written down, don't do this. Right.

They didn't have that. That's right. Well, when that was added, you say, well, that would curtail it. No. It didn't curtail anything. And all the things that they were put in. In fact, I guess if anything, it speeded it up. Well, that's right.

And all the things they were putting their trust in, Paul has said all along, nope, you missed it. Abraham, he was before circumcences. Before all the things that you're thinking are so important, he's before all that. And he was faithful because he listened to God. And so Jay said it right. That whole scene with Isaac was a shadow scene of what was going to happen in the future, that it would be a father sacrificing a son for all of humanity's sin.

So it's really, it's brilliant when you can get high enough to see the whole thing. But people kind of get in the weeds of it and they kind of miss the most important parts, I think. Well, and back to 520. So when he says where sin in you, increased, and this is the good news of God, grace increased all the more, so that just as sin reigned in death, which is why Jesus died. So that grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ or Lord. I mean, there's the dividing line. So what the Roman world deducted, the Roman recipients of Paul's letter, so he knew their hearts.

So the first verse of six is, so what shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase, which is an unusual question. You have to kind of stop and think, what does that mean? so he's like okay so you have the law what happened we make mistakes as humans and the more mistakes we make the worse it gets it just starts snowballing the snowball effect well and the awareness remember and the awareness it's knowing now that when you might be living a lie you might be in denial but if you just go thrust yourself into sex that's not right and drugs and drunkenness you there is a moment that you're looking around saying, what have I done here?

I mean, even though you might keep, you know, partaking just to numb the pain. They have whole, whole entities that are built to inform you what have you been doing. Here's what you've been doing. Right. I mean, you're on a dead end road. We're here to rehabilitate you to get you to quit thinking like you're thinking because what do you have left? Your family is disowning.

You have lost to have the thing. You lost his driver license. Everything you do is illegal now. Because you can't travel without a driver's license. You can't drive anywhere. They've taken all that away from me. So you're just walking up and down the road and hiding in the shadows, getting in the darkness,

and continuing on the same path. And there's millions upon millions upon millions of them that are just wandering around. But no knowledge of God, no hope, and there they are. And you say, well, what about them? And you say, I know of no other writings, you know, the 10-step programs, they'll put you through a program, just believe in anything bigger than yourself because, you know, you're not doing too well trusting in you.

So, and they don't say, put your faith in Jesus. That'd be against the rules. as you say, just dream up anything you can bow down to beside yourself. But I would rather them do that than nothing. Me too. Yeah. And it's helpful. The problem is it doesn't get to the understanding of just what we're talking about.

Because if you don't understand why Jesus did what he did for you and how that opens this doorway up to something better, you're never going to quite figure it out. Other than the Bible, can y'all think of any books? old writings or new writings. Can y'all think of anything that handles sin, reigned in death, grace might rain through righteousness, eternal life? I mean, where do you find that kind of material other than the Bible?

Who speaks of these matters? I'm sure there are some counseling books that kind of use the same themes as the Bible. you know, you recognize what you're doing as a problem. Man, what they say, first you got to admit there's a problem. That's why I'm saying you're not doing well on your own. So we're going to rehabilitate you and start with this. Do you figure you have a problem by now? You've lost.

Well, Phil, it seems like common sense, but there's a lot of people out there who are like, I mean, I've visited them in prison. They're like, I don't see what the problem is. Like, you're, they have locked, society has locked you up. You're in change. And you're still not recognizing that you might have a problem. You know, I mean, denial is, is a powerful thing. There's a big movement on now to get people out of jail because they said, you know,

you're going to food around, put everybody in jail. So we need to get people out of jail instead of put them in jail. because we got too many in jail. Yeah, you're right. It's not working. Everybody keeps in and up in jail. We can't hold. The prisons won't hold.

Yeah, I don't. I think it's a simple fact of they just don't have room. Don't have room. Don't have room. There's no room in the end. It's all on how you view the solution. Let's take another break. When they get down to sin rained, you say sin rain.

And he's going to go on after Roman 6th. Don't let sin rain. You know, rain means you, you, you're out of, you, you can't do good. It's, it's, it's all bad. Well, and back to the societal problem, you've got, if, if you don't understand about, or care, maybe that's a better way to put it. If you don't care about anything other than what I want to get for me right now, I want to go, I need some money, so I'm going to go knock over this liquor store.

I'm going to steal right out of my grandmother's purse. Or I'm going to do that. And I'm going to go. And then I'm going to go. And then I'm going to go and I'm going to get me a hit of something. And then I'm going to go and I'm going to get me a gun. Then I'm going to go and take care of this guy over here. So if your whole life is being driven only by the base instincts of your humanity,

that's what you're going to get into. And I don't really care that you're breaking the law. I mean, we think about it. If you're thinking about the outdoor stuff, we find out that you may have been doing something. And obviously you find out, oh, wait, we're not supposed to. to be doing this because there's some law that we didn't know about. Then you just, it alters us because we're like, well, we don't, I mean, we're not trying to break the law.

That's the idea of me living this way. I'm not under law, but I'm not, I don't try to be a lawbreaker either. Well, because I care about society. I care about how I function. I care about it. Well, we don't tend to think of this question as like somebody would say, well, if God's grace, if he has more grace than there is sin. If it's bigger than our mistakes, it's just kind of embarrassing that somebody would say,

so should we send more to get more grace? Right. But I mean, Paul's a lot that's had that thought. I think he's making the point because it seems so absurd to think that way that he's saying, now look, if you're saying because, you know, oh, that's right, now we just, we should just be able to get after it. I mean, let's see how absurd that thinking is because that's not why Jesus came here was to unleash you to live like the evil one. I mean, that's counterproductive of who evil.

And he felt it important enough to put it in here. He did. And I do think people use a version of this idea when they say, oh, I'll get straight later because God's got to forgive me. Yeah. Some of them tell me, I need to get back in church. I'm like, get back in church. Church.

What does that mean? What does it mean? Because it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. Or I haven't said, well, you know, I tried to read my Bible. I tried to pray, but I just didn't feel like it was getting past the ceiling. I hear all the different ways people are trying to describe doing things that sound and are good. Somehow that's going to make me better, make me more righteous, make me more, whatever.

But it does it. It's got to flow the other way. it's natural to do things that are spiritual and righteous whenever your heart is totally committed to Christ, you want to be more like him every day. Well, the righteousness came from God. We've read it at least five times up until this point in the book of Romans. I'm not ashamed in the gospel. God is providing the righteousness, you know, that Romans 3, 20, and 21, but now a righteousness from God is revealed.

And then all this about grace. Apart from all. apart from law, all this about grace, unmerited favor, God is giving you that through the cross. I'm giving you complete 100%. And it made it available. Free grace. He made it available.

And forgiveness. When you were dead in your sins, everybody. So then you come, so you're in view of the cross, you're saying, so shall I go on sinning? Well, of all things, and I do think this is strange. He answers the question and too by saying, no by no means we died to sin which is a strange phrase because that would be different than dying in sin you know if you died in sin which means you did the same thing out of and they said don't do it and they did it and you died because you chose to but this is

dying you're wrong upon some information that in In your mind, you made a decision based on the information that you heard. Faith comes from hearing the message. I would say deeper than information, though. I would say it's the person that you, oh, there's somebody out there that did this for me. You know, it's. But when you decide to die to something. But I'm saying it wasn't the information about Jesus or was it just Jesus?

and the information. I'm saying... That's Roman 7. Well, I know, but I mean, you can't... My point is you can't talk about Romans 6 without going through Romans 5, and you can't go through Romans 5 without going to 4. Well, four doesn't make sense if you get, unless you go back to 3. Well, three, you've got to go all the way back to 1.

Basically, by the time you get to Roman 6... We're building something here. He almost is saying grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life. what he said is helps available right help is available well we know the phrase we died to sin doesn't mean that we never sin again i mean there's plenty of verses that well but i thought it meant maybe i'm wrong here that you uh if you died in sin you sin and you died which i believe that happens you're now it you can't go back and probably trace which sin or because it because the sin like romans one comes from the heart and the things

thinking that went awry, and then the sins came later. So somewhere in there, you never, you didn't give thanks to God, you didn't glorify him, you started believing the lie. All those things happen first in your heart and mind, and then the sin starts occurring. So you basically separate yourself from God. Yep. And evil activity ensues. But when I read, we died to sin.

I thought that was a positive. As in, it is. We got away from it. Because then he says, how can we live in it any longer? Well, if you got away from something, what are you doing trying to say, well,

oh, since God forgave me, let me go live in it. Well, my point is, you got away from it. There had to be some information, namely Jesus died for your sins. I know, but that's a way. for you to say, okay, what I need to do, get out of that.

I agree, but I'm saying the information is a person, which I think is important. Well, I call it different words. Let's take one last break. I call what you call an information. I call it an awareness. I mean, what happens is you didn't know something and then you did know something. That's why I'm saying to you, there had to be a transfer of information. Exactly.

But the information has to have an informant. it's what I'm saying. That's why how can they believe unless people are sent to preach to them? Well, the information is Jesus. How can they believe without? I think it's an important point though, because if it's just about the information, I think churches are, we got all the information right. He's talking about the information. He's talking about the information is Jesus. I mean, it's the awareness of, that's all I was trying to say. Right, right. Because if, but I've been to churches where it's information only. Yeah, Jesus is the centerpiece of the beginning of wisdom. Right. Whether you say gospel, right. And that's, it's the awareness that changes. I mean, a way that I look at it for me to wrap my brain around is we died to the effects of sin. And once we have an awareness that now we're no longer under the curse of death because Jesus says we can live forever, that changes everything, which is why he said in Titus, same writer says in Titus, grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness. So it's grace is also a teacher.

Yeah. I agree. But I think it's a bigger point. It's like the truth. You say, well, Jesus said you should know the truth and truth said you're free. All right. Well, what's the information that is considered true? Right. Well, Thomas, when Jesus comes up with his speech and says, look, I'm going to go prepare a place for you. Don't worry. Well, Thomas said, give us the information, the map. on how we go. Remember what he? Yeah. How do we get? Yeah. How do we get? I need some information.

I need some, send me a screenshot or, you know. But, well, then Jesus made that statement. I am the way. I am the truth. So I'm saying, I think it's an important point. There's thousands of examples of that. Right. Because I see a lot of people who argue about information, even like, because we're fixing

to get to baptism. And people argue about that. But if you take Jesus out of the equation and the purpose. and the personal view of that, I think you'll lose the importance of the information. It's because there is a lot of argument on the importance of baptism. And that's why I'm saying, if you go into it thinking, oh, wait a minute, I can participate in Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection.

I mean, if it's just information, people say, well, this is all from God. you can't do anything to save yourself, which I would agree. Because if Jesus wasn't on a cross and he didn't come back from the dead, you can be safe. Would you agree? Yeah. But I'm not, I don't get, I don't understand how you could ever separate Jesus from being the information.

You're described as if people are doing it, but I don't, how would you, how was it even possible? Well, when Phil said you have some information, but I'm like, that is a personal being. Some information is that has to be there for motivation. For you to know who he is. Well, faith comes through hearing the message. That's right. But the message is heard through the Word of Christ.

That's what I'm saying. You can't leave it at, it's the message without the Word of Christ. It's always a text. I think it's an important point. Y'all may not, that's fine. So he said in verse two. don't, I don't think it's as important as you do, but I think it's that we agree that it's all the same thing. He's talking about when you get into Christ, you get out of sin and the effects

of sin. I guess, I guess because I don't want people to think of this as a manual, like a college course where they get all the information, they take a test, they get all the right answers, and they make an A. Because then I think when the sky's part and Jesus is coming back, they're like, well, who is this? It's like they were so detached. They were trying to get all the information right, which to me is impossible. But if you get who Jesus is and his character right

and the basic information that leads back to him, I think you look up and you're like, oh, yeah, I know this leads back to a person and a being, which then values relationships. All information is God breed. And it's useful for teaching. rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so that the man or woman of God will be red, red, red, and that's spiritual growth.

Yeah. So he... It's useful. Yeah, I agree. So he answers the question. He says, we died to sin. How can we live in longer? Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

that seems like a big one it's a huge one we were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father we too may live a new life of course then he goes on to say if we've been united with him like this in his death we will certainly also be united with them in his resurrection for we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, which is what I said when it says we died to sin. Right. I think that's the definition right there.

He basically repeats himself in six and says so that the body of sin might be done away with. Remember what renders it powerless is that death no longer applies to you. Yeah. That's it. And then this next phrase, which you brought up about the slaves, I think, answers the six one. Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? And he's like, that,

we in verse six should no longer be slaves to sin because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. So it's like should I sin so that grace may increase and he said you died to sin. When you surrendered, we killed that person. It was a spiritual suicide. Or however you want to say it. You fell on your knees and said that's it. I'm surrendered. I'm surrendered. I'm surrendered. I'm surrendered here. When an alcoholic dies, there's no more drunkenness. Yeah. It's over. All he

has to do is once he dies, he'll never utter another curse word. He'll never tell another lie. He'll never get drunk again. Which is why a lot of people... Which is why a lot of people commit suicide. Well, I tell you. Because they're thinking, I just want a way out. The finality of

that, in a spiritual sense, when you go through your death who's sin through your faith in Jesus' death for your sins, you hear about they've been removed. Who is it that removed them, Jesus? And so to your point, Jay, Jesus is the one you appoint to. He took your sins away. Oh, by the way, he'll raise you from the dead, too.

Because three days after they put him in the tomb, he was raised from the dead. Right. So you're a dead man walking right now, but in 15 minutes through your faith in this gospel right here, you'll be dead. the old you buried and the new you will come for a spirit field ready to row well and it's it's it's it's the greatest story ever told it is and i think jesus right in the sense that people say well i want to be better so the solution is to know jesus better because the more you know him which is why we got it so excited about the chosen the reason we don't like it so much is it's

giving us other views of looking at jesus through the eye you know they're to it through storytelling of these people that were around it. But to Jesus' point, you can't... It makes you know him better. You can't get to the point where you say the information about Jesus is what saves you. Or 12 steps or rules. You know why? Because you diligently study the scripture.

A lot of them's got that on down pat. They work at it. But the scriptures, Jesus said, they're talking about me. Yeah, they won't say that. Well, it's like if you were in a classroom taking a test, the information is not going to look over your shoulder or tap you on the shoulder. and say, what are you doing? You got that one wrong, you know, but Jesus might.

And I'm saying, you're like, oh, this is a real being who knows, he's all knowing, he's all powerful, he's omnipresent, he has the ability to be everywhere, he's eternal, he's sinless, all these qualities of God. Well, then all of a sudden, when you realize that you think, why, who am I trying to kid? Am I actually thinking that I'm, fooling God by saying, I need to, I need to get back in church. That'd be something good I should do. He's, he's sitting over saying, you think?

Why don't you just come with me and we'll bury that old person and start over in view of my grace, you know? You want to do something about your sin? We can just kill that old person and start over. How about that? Well, we'll, we're out of time, but we'll pick this up next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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