Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 293 | Why We Believe Babies Are Born Innocent & the Problem with the 'Deeper Truths of the Bible'

Episode Date: June 13, 2021

Jase's house is struck by lightning, and just in case it's a sign, he's not taking any chances. Phil and Jase are highly suspicious of people who claim they've come up with the deeper truths of the Bible. And the guys talk about the easily offended church police, the thought-provoking portrayals of Mary Magdalene and Nicodemus on "The Chosen," the importance of Jesus in sports journalist Jason Whitlock's professional life, and why they believe babies are born without sin. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? My sleep is all messed up. Yesterday, after we did the podcast, I crashed and burned. I figured I mean, I'm just, where am I? When you left here yesterday, you look like Night of the Living Dead. It was just like a zombie. So where did you go out of Ohio? You went somewhere else? No, I went to Ohio, but I've gone other places, but right now.

Now, it's not at the ready recollection. Ohio, I thought it was Ohio. Yeah, Ohio. Well, no, I'm leaving for Indiana tomorrow. Yeah, well, let's. So we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, I'm telling you, every time I go to Indiana, I'm like, I could love, I could live here. There's a lot of people, a lot of people.

I say a lot for what the situation is. Indiana, Indiana, Indiana, Indiana, they come all the way to, the little place we are from Indiana, from Indiana, from Indiana, from Indiana, from Indiana, Indiana, I mean, yeah. It's where our old pal, Sammy Davis is from the Medal of Honor winner, congressional medal of honor. He's the real Forrest Gump, you know, in the movie Forrest Gump when they're, Oh, that was based on somebody.

Yeah, when they put the metal on, you know, they took, Sammy is the guy that did it. He's been down here before. And they put, they put Tom Hanks. It looks like it's Tom Hanks, but it's actually Sammy. He's the one that hauled him out. He got shot in the buttocks. You know, it was all the real. It was all real.

Well, look, I watch a really good. a movie. I mean, I was awakened by the violent storm that passed through here, and a lightning boat actually hit my house and blew out a TV. So I started saying,

come to Jesus meeting, come to Jesus meeting. When lightning starts taking their house, it's time to find out, well, somebody's got something going on. I mean, I made sure everybody was all right. I was like, let's watch a good Christian movie. That's what we did as a family. What's funny?

Yeah, Jay. So we were sitting on the porch at my house, which we're probably, I'm not even a quarter mile, I guess, from your house. A little less than a quarter mile. Yeah. And we heard it. But I thought it was a tree. You need you tell, enlightening, hit something. There's a sound.

There's a click. There's a click that happens when it hits it. And we heard it hit your house. But we thought it was a tree. When you hear the click. I was trying to figure out where it was. I thought it was. When you hear the click, it is extremely close.

Well, that was a TV. Either the sign was, I have too mean TV. so I need to reassess that because this one's actually in my bedroom, which we don't use it very often. They make a gadget that you can hook on your TV. It stops that. You know where I was going with that, right?

I provide, you know, my own entertainment. I don't know. But okay, well, it's a family show, but look, it was God's idea. It was his idea. So we watched this movie, Greater, Have you ever seen it? No.

True story about an Arkansas football walk on Burleson, Burleson, I think was his name. But, you know, it was really good. I mean, there was a couple little cheesy parts. You know how the Christian movies have that. Yeah. Not all the actors were, you know, I mean, some of them were. Academy Award left. Yeah, but the story and overall, two thumbs.

way up and it's a highly rated movie i mean it was it was really good so there you go for your movie night it was you know phil you and k are looking for popcorn and movie night greater but greater hmm so and then that set up nicely since my sleep was messed up because i kept telling them hey let's get this movie on they were like let's do the popcorn because i was doing the math I said, how long was this moving? Because LSU was playing Oregon at 9 o'clock, which really I was running 10 minutes late, but the actual first pitch was like 915, which was perfect. Who won that?

Oh, I'm fixed to share with you because that was awesome. I had trouble going to sleep once it was over. Oh, wow. I broke my social media interaction. I have had no, now I've posted things, you know, about this podcast and Jesus and family. and, you know, different thing. But I haven't had any interactions, but last night, I couldn't help it. Because I was like, the only people that are awake that, you know, I'm caring about right now are other LSU fans.

So I posted a tweet. And what was crazy is all these LSU, these former LSU players, like, we just started talking with each other. And I'm like, this is why LSU baseball just has some mystique about it. The fact that these guys who half of them are in the major leagues, they're up at 1 o'clock in the morning, hollering, go tigers. Oh, it was an epic game. It was the only time in my life that I can remember

that I wasn't rooting for the ducks. Yeah. You weren't what? I wasn't rooting for the ducks because they were playing the organ ducks. Oregon ducks, yeah. Yeah. You got to love them. You got to love them.

of. Yeah. Well, I love ducks, but in this case, but let you just think about this, Phil, though, I'll get it, because I know you're not a big TV watcher, although we got started late because you had to watch the end of another Matt Dillon episode that I know you said. Somebody told me they, they have posted something I've said, but they never, I was never aware that they did that. They put it on there like, I did it, I said it, but then they called me up later and say, yeah, I did that. But you didn't do it? No.

I've never made it. I've never knowingly made a post. I'm just telling you, I don't get as excited about things as you do. Well, but here's what you got to remember. Back in my early. You know, you say yay tigers, then you got a bunch of people jamming you, you know,

yay ducks. I mean, you know. Well, let me explain something to you, Phil. How many national championships is LSU baseball one? A bunch. A bunch. And you got to remember why I'm into this is because when I was younger, especially my teenage years, I was so persecuted for being a follower of Jesus and so alienated from all social activities. Like when I was in high school and while I gravitated toward obviously the outdoors hunting and fishing, but also sports. and LSU, you know, people that you're kind of drawn to success, I guess,

but back in the Skip Burtman days, I mean, it's just the definition for me participating in that as a fan. You know, we went to many games, and I've been there and watched, and it's just good, clean fun. It's something good. And so, like, this year, my point is, look, it's been a rough year. And this is Coach Palminari, who's a friend of mine. It's his last year he announced his retirement.

So I'm just like, man, it's been a tough year. Even in his personal life, he lost his dad. And it's just been a tough year. And our team has talent, but a lot of the key players are all freshmen. So I've watched this whole season in pretty much silence because it was borderline. I don't want to say lucky because I think you create your own luck. But it was very fortunate that we even made. Barryman.

The playoffs. And probably because of our reputation as much as anything. And I think, I really think Coach Manari, he waited to say he was going to retire just so the committee could say, you know, I mean, they're a pretty good team because they had, I think, the third toughest schedule. But I've watched this team, and we got the talent. But they were mostly in key positions young. So I've just watched them grow up.

So they go to the, they get picked. and everybody's excited that we're in the regional's except we have to go to Oregon which I don't know what Oregon is ranked but they were one of the national seeds so we got to go to Oregon Oregon's long way from Baton Rouge

and nobody thinks we're going to come out of there and on top of that we lose the first game what do you realize? Just got totally shut down the first game yeah we played Gonzaga I didn't even know they had a baseball team I thought they were basketball only

and we lost So at that moment, you're like, okay. Because they lost the first game in the SEC tournament too. You realize in the history of college playoffs, I think only four or five times in the history, a team has lost the first game of the regional and come back to win the regional. Because then you have to win four in a row, essentially.

And by the time you get to that four. And your best pitcher was burned in the first game. By the time you get to the fifth game, anybody that has his arms still attacked. So they actually won it. Well, they won the first game. In a squeaker. So I'm just, yeah, I'm just watching, you know.

And then the guy who won that game had the game win and hit, he, you know, pulled his girl in our hamstring and he's had problems all year. So now we're down another man, you know, and I'm like, boy, the hits just keep on coming, you know. And so, but look, I saw this team. They grew up. and it just you started sensing they're just not going to be stopped here and so what i guess about game three of that somewhere in there i thought we're going to win this i just and they had to beat Oregon twice because it's double elimination and they did and they did at Oregon well last

night well last night the ducks are mad now last night was the ducks are devastated oh yeah it's it's it's really quiet well that's a clean fun it was but look I want to say this. I saw the, you know, you talk about pressure and all, kind of the game winning moment, besides this Gavin Dugas, I posted a tweet. It looked like he was playing a slow pit softball game. You know, everybody, yeah.

They come up, if you elevated the ball, this man is locked in, it was just gone. As soon as they hit it, I just, that's gone, you know. It's out of here. Waking up the house, which that's another story. But at the end of the game, we're losing like, I think it was 7, 6. And so we get a runner on second and third. And Oregon had this amount of want to knock the style,

but it was almost like a little league strategy for trying to anticipate the squeeze butt. And they kept throwing the ball or maybe it was first and third. Yeah, it was first. We have first and third. And they kept throwing the ball to first base. And the guy, our runner on first base, he wasn't even off the base. on the bag. And they were doing some kind of play where it's like, we're going to throw the first,

we're going to throw to first. And then the first base or the third baseman are going to rush home, anticipate, they were trying to guess the squeeze play. Right. So somebody got a signal cross because we're down by one. Or maybe it was tied at that point. I can't remember that. It was late.

So look, they go to throw the first, but the first baseman, third baseman, they crashed. so it's a balk because if first base is unoccupied by your defender then everybody moves up a base so all this was dumb it was it was just it's a and that's what I mean you're like well that was lucky but at the end of the day we pulled it off the taggers pulled it were they were whooping and hollering of it oh they were pretty faired up the first five minutes after the game I was whooping and hollered My house is pretty wrong with us too.

Yeah. We had several up, though, at my house, because I still got a house full of company, but I told him, I said, there's no business going to bed until this is over because there won't be any sleeping. So congrats to the Tigers, and we move on. I mean, look.

We're going to Tennessee. Again, we're huge underdows, but I mean, I wouldn't count. You know, a team like LSU is the one I wouldn't want to play. At this point, I mean, it's all gravy, you know. But I found a surreal moment, because I'm talking to all these players, you know, and just,

the former players after it was over. Well, Ben McDonald, who's a famous LSU pitcher, you know, he called the game. And look, was completely professional. But, I mean, I know deep, he's actually calling the game, and he's supposed to be unbiased, and he was. He was. But I was sitting there thinking, right now he would say,

oh, and the Tigers take the lead. I said, but really, he's thinking. You bad, bad. So we were talking, we were interacting. I was like, good job. them they called tonight you know and he's like man i was sweating bullets but i thought he's a hunter he's a he's a really good dude he played for baltimore he's actually calls games for baltimore too he's a color guy for baltimore on their broadcast yeah sometimes when i watch him he's on interesting factoid

when willie got mad at me one time i had thousands of baseball cards and he had gotten into an altercation as a teenagers like we do and willie put my all my baseball cards in in the yard and and it rained and it ruined all of them. But I had three. That was a low down trick. Tell me about it. I wish you ought to have been there to give him a butt-whipping. But I had three that I had just gotten that weren't in the box and they were all Ben McDonald.

So after all it was over and I still have those three baseball cards. And I'm like, that would seem weird if I ever told him that. I'm like, yeah, I got three baseball cards. And they're all of you. And I've got them in a room around a candle. Yeah. I think they're actually in a box. All right.

Let's take a break. So anyway, yeah, it was good. So baseball, you know, while you were fast asleep, that's what we were doing. Yeah, it doesn't pass me by. So you got something for us? Well, I just want to say, we get so many letters and people say, you know, I don't know how to study the Bible. It seemed like it's a, it's a thick, thick, thick book. I just want to remind people

that if you just start with the last two pages, the last couple of pages, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they all record the same event. Jesus died on the cross, was buried and raised from the dead. You get in the book of Acts, the first paragraph after his suffering, he showed himself to these men,

gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. Well, you've read the two to three pages, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and what Jesus said he would do, that's exactly what he did. It had to be to save the world. In Acts chapter 1, Luke, who had already recorded it earlier, writes down about Jesus, given many convincing proofs he was alive, and he stayed there 40 days to convince him. But that's the book of Acts. You read the rest of it, and it goes in the great detail about how the gospel was being

prets about persecution and all that. So what you mean by gospel is, is like specific, the hub death penalty. The hub that everything springs forth from is the message that God became flesh, died on a cross, was buried and raised from the dead. You get to the book of Romans, first paragraph, Paul to serve it or Christ Jesus, called him an apostle, and set apart for the gospel of God. To your point, I think it's mentioned six times in the first chapter. That's right.

which is pretty then we name the podcast I'm not ashamed of the gospel that's verse 16 but what he's doing is with all these epistles every one of them they start with Jesus

his death barrel and resurrection you get to the first Corinthians called to be holy together all everywhere grace and peace be to you we've been talking about grace I always thank God because this grace

given you he begins with Jesus what he's done for us 2nd Corinthians 1st paragraph The Church of God and Corinth Together with all the saints

Praise be to God And the Father of our Lord Jesus The Father of Compassion God of all comfort He comforts us in our troubles Comforts those in any trouble So right there For just as the sufferings of Christ

It always comes back to that In every book Galatians First sentence Sent not for men but by God Paul but by Jesus Christ, the God, the Father, who raised him from the dead and all the brothers with me, you say, it's either part of the gospel or the entire thing

over and over and over and over and over and over. So my point is, when you're studying your Bible, just start with the first paragraph. After you read the last three pages, two or three pages in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, go through these epistles, and you will be amazed on how, the redundancy that is hammered out who Jesus is, what he did, what he's now doing, and what he will do. So just get that in your head all the way.

Now we're in the book of Romans over here. That's what's difficult about a lot of preachers in church. This is all you really need. It's what I'm trying to show people. Services is they tend to want to do different subjects. And people are people who say, well, we got that. We understand this. We got this.

Well, I think it translates into our mission that God uses us, despite our flaws, to share that. He made it so that this verbiage that comes out of the religious world, they go through and nitpick on all these scriptures and argue about things that shouldn't even be arguing about to begin with. But they've kind of made it like a workbook, and they fell into the trap that you've mentioned, Jase. they dillingsily studied the scriptures and Jesus said, look, these scriptures are about me. It's about me. You're splitting hairs

on every little issue. Should we do this? You think it's right? That's what they'll start with. Do you think it's right if, and then they'll give you some verse over there. Do you think it's right? And I'm like, look,

we all know what right is and we all know what wrong is. Just get up and do what's right. That's what righteousness is. You just do what's right. I said, I don't have to give you a verse on it. You know that. In here, everybody knows it.

So they've made these wordages like, you know, the deeper truths of the Bible. We're here to give you the, when somebody comes along and tells you, look, I'll come up with some deeper truths of the Bible. Guess what? And I'm like, hold it right there. Run. I said, look, my sins have been removed. I'm guaranteed I'll be raised from the dead. I have God's spirit in me.

and I've guaranteed the gospel through the gospel, life and immortality. I'm not digging any deeper. It's not that complex. You've got to remember most people who have responded to the gospel, they're not even, not only are they not college educated worldwide. They're not junior high educated. So what are you going to do with people with dirt floors? They're just a mighty throng of them.

They're not brilliant minds. You know, I'm a C plus man, but there's a lot of people that are way lower than that. What about them? Thank you. God made it simple enough where we all can get it. Here's what happened, and here's who he is and what he's done. Because ultimately it's a person. I just think that needs to be said from time to time as we go through these things,

and they're like, well, he's old boy, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, y'all are. But it's like if you were struggled in school and you, you know, you're just like, I can't get this material. And they're like, what do they do? They're like, they get you a tutor. They get you a person and they try to explain it. But, I mean, God did that in essence at a bigger scale and said, look, learn who I am through this person.

Well, you think about the great equalizer for all of us is that we all have the Holy Spirit, which that's where the righteousness comes from. So it's not about how intelligent you are, how many scriptures you know. Look, we like studying the Bible, and I discover new things all the time, every time I study. All the time. But the realization of something new doesn't mean that I didn't understand salvation. So that's kind of the way you have to approach it. Just remember, do it all through this lens.

This isn't the first part of First Corinthians. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. He makes a great poem. Not many of you were wise by human standards, which it proves my point about, look, you know, most people are not college educated. Most people are not full of brain power running around on planet Earth, just human beings. They're not wise by human standards. Not many were influential. They weren't big dogs somewhere.

Just millions and hundreds of millions that are just normal people. Not many were of noble birth. He said, God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. Exactly. Chose the weak things that were to shame the strong. He chose the lowly thing, the despise things. That's why you look in the people Jesus reached out to, I mean, some woman with five husbands had had five husbands and the one she's with, she's shacked up at the time. She's like, whoa, I think you might be a prophet.

If you knew who was talking to, he had, the water. he'd give you you wouldn't believe it so he's just making a point but people like that the woman at the well who uh what was a girl and chosen uh that the high maria mcgdon yeah mary maglin had the spirit her background you just think about it you're like good not full of the devil i mean but feel you make a good because a lot of people you just think how many people gripe and complain or don't agree with something at their local church oh and but you got to to realize we're all flawed we all make mistakes and even like watching the chosen people like well you know i don't like it because the you know whatever you know that they're they're supposing on

things and i'm like what you saw up north it's the the rule crowd yeah they're looking at these rules the best advice i ever got when i'm not sure where it was but when you're listening to a speaker girl, you're at a event or you're watching a show that's Jesus-based or whatever, you've got to remember it's like eating fish. When you come up on a bone, even if they're wrong, if you're like, I'm telling you this is wrong, you spit it out and move on, enjoy the fish. It makes you think.

But a lot of people in our faith, they can't get past that. Because they feel like you have to perfectly reflect. you know, what the Bible says. The problem is none of us agree on every bit of a detail. That's why I like it when you bring these reminders up. Let's get the big stuff right. That's right. And the rest of it, we can talk.

Because here's my point. These people who write in and say, well, I can't believe you're promoting a movie, you know, about Jesus and your personal life. Well, these people, look, they're not writing Hollywood about their movies. Yeah. I'm like, I got an idea. Write them first. Because some of that out there is just pure evil. So if we just do comparison, I would say we need more of this and less of that.

Yeah. Let's take a break. So, Jay, you're right. Just a reminder there. And that episode about Mary Maglin on The Chosen, one of the things I loved about it. I never, again, this is why the series is so intriguing to me. is they've got people, all these people are operating in the same sphere because Nicodemus, you know, and Mary are in the same sphere. Now, we don't know if they ever interacted.

No, but it just makes you think. Right. And I love the fact that they connected the dots to those two people because Nicodemus winds up being a seeker and eventually a brother. I mean, eventually he raised. And look, in that DNAs with that particular culture, that was a rare thing. Oh, it was. to come out of Judaism and say, wait a minute. Well, the echelon of leadership especially. But what I love about it is, is he didn't have an answer for how Mary, you know, became cleansed. It didn't go through the first he thought he had something to do it. Then he realized he didn't.

And I love that idea because that would have been so. That's what they were having problems. They kept looking and watching him. And he was everything he was supposed to be. but they just couldn't it just didn't make any sense. I mean, I love the little back and forth about Nazareth, and they made a few jokes about that.

But because they were like, he's from Nazareth. There's no way it could be. Nothing good coming out of Nazareth. Have you all seen Nazareth lately? I mean, but we do the same thing. They didn't know what he was about, but they're saying, Nadrith, he's out.

He's out. Yeah. Where'd you come from? Nazareth? Out. Yep. Can't be a scholar. I got a,

I got a, note today from the president of our network for Blaze is a good guy. He's a brother. And he sent me a thing, an article that Jason Whitlock wrote. And Jason Whitlock, I've always admired him. He used to be on Fox Sports. And he's just, he stuck out to me. I, you know, I didn't know anything about his background or anything, but he was just always willing to say what he thought. You know, he just didn't tow the line. And I like that about him. And so I started kind of following him and seeing him pop up and do interviews. And then I heard him talk more about being more conservative rather than liberal, and that's unusual. You know, he's a sports journalist. And then I heard him talking about his

faith. So I got really intrigued. So I thought, man, we should have him on the podcast sometime. I got a note today from Gaston that said he just joined Blaze, which I was super excited about. So now we've got to have him on. But he said, I want to read what he said, to show you where we're at in our culture in terms of just what we're talking about, be able to be bold and unashamed. He said, I signed a contract to partner with Blaze because I want to push back against these corporate supported systematic efforts to undermine America through racial division and fear. He's an African American. I joined Blaze because I wanted to partner with people who wouldn't look at me funny when I referred to Jesus as part of my journalistic worldview and platform. In other words, I should be able to talk about Jesus in my profession or whatever I did.

I mean, right? Then he said, I joined Blaze. media because Glenn Beck smiled when I said Jesus is the only solution for what ails America. So does Steve Deese and Phil Robertson, Alley, Best Stucky, and others on this platform. So I just thought that was really neat that ours is called unashamed. Here's his is called Fearless, you know, with Jason. The old question that keeps coming up, and I'm still waiting on the answer. I understand what you're saying, but do you have a better story every time there's silence?

Right. There's always silent. Do I have a better story than what I just heard about God becoming flesh of all things coming out of a woman? He created the cosmos. He comes out of a woman with a human birth. You're like, and then never makes a mistake, dies and is resurrected. And you're like, I think you would at least look into him just to see what he was all about. That's right.

And part of our platform, though, ashamed, is, is. to inspire people to be more vocal about Jesus and about your faith. And I see a lot of emails from people. And they inspire me. I just want you to know you guys that sent me stuff and said, you know, for the first time, I feel like I'm going public with my faith. And a lot of it's because we've helped inspire them to do that. And that's great.

I mean, that's all this is, is speaking out about who we are and what we believe. Well, we're talking about unashamed and being fearless. and people being the church police and getting easily offended. But I remind you something I brought up a few podcasts ago because when we were in Romans 4, looking at Abraham's faith, in that Hall of Fame of Hebrews 11, this statement was made after Abraham put his faith in trust even though he didn't see and even though he didn't understand

you know, about his past and future. He just said, I'm going with it. And this statement that says, therefore, God, this is Hebrews 11, 16, is not ashamed to be called their God. For he has prepared a city for him. And that's what I think about is God looks at us and overlooks our past to the point of he sent Jesus, but on a daily basis. and we find security in that.

But a lot of times it doesn't trickle down into the way we treat other people and information that's being out there. I mean, we're not perfect people. We have the Holy Spirit, but you can make mistakes about how you apply certain scriptures or how you view and be sincerely mistaken. We've all been sincerely mistaken at times. But it's not our job to run around and be moved. mean-spirited to other people because you think somebody got it wrong, while at the same

time, God is looking down and saying, despite everything we've done and that we will do, he's not ashamed of us. That's right. I mean, it's just an awesome perspective. I think that's why when he finally gets to Romans 7, we started into it. He got about midway up the other day. He ends up by saying, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, right? and good, they're not the problem.

The law is not the problem. We are. So then he goes on this diatribe, and I basically think what he's saying now is here's the deal. I think we should read that. Yeah, I do too. Because he basically said, look, you're not going to be able to do this perfectly. Before you read it, I thought about one of the most frequent verses I use in the Bible,

we kind of skipped over in our last podcast, but it's Romans 7-9. before, because I want to get into what y'all are talking about too. But, you know, it says he's trying to explain, you know, when he started in verse 7, he said, what shall we say then is the law, sin, certainly not. I mean, we're the ones, the law is, you know, good, but we're the ones that screw it up. And he's like, I wouldn't have known what sin was except through the law. Of course, he had already addressed in, what is it, chapter 2, about those who, through their conscience, even though they were before the law, the same principle apply.

Your conscience. Their conscience let them know what right and wrong. Your conscience convicted you because you didn't hang on this. Let's take a break. So that's why when people come to me and I've had a mini a Bible study where when people discuss their sins or we have a discussion about them, they're like, yeah, but I didn't know it was wrong. And I'm like, yeah, you know it was wrong.

Now, at some point you might have seared that conscience, but at the time, you know what's wrong. Your conscience is bearing witness to what is written. Exactly. Your conscience reminds you, oh, there's sin. There's law that will be broken. Well, you know, I don't have a written code. You wouldn't even even code.

So he says, I wouldn't know what coveting really was of the law and not said. But then it says, but sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead, which is why we, you know, died to ourselves and came in contact with Jesus who nailed the law to the cross. We went through that last time. So I read all that to get to verse 9. By the way, an infant wouldn't, is the reason they're not involved in being cut off from God.

Well, that's the point of. Because of what you just said. Yeah, but that's the point I'm getting to in verse 9. This is one of the most quoted verses. Because when it comes to a baby or an infant, and look, we just had a long talk about people not agree. I know there's people that believe, you know, infants are born into sin. And they base it on the study we already did in Romans 5. Right.

I mean, because you could definitely take that as, oh, yeah, it's universal. You're born in sin. So that's where it comes. We believe babies and infants are safe. Right. It's different from us being saved once you have a knowledge of sin. and you're separated from God, Jesus saves you through the cross,

and that goes past, present and future. But up until that time... And the reason we do that is the consistency throughout the whole Bible that God has always offered a choice to follow him or not, to do the right thing or not. And so...

You would have to be old enough to know what the right thing was. You would take choice out with an input. So since we started with a baseball theme, it's like, you know, the baby on first base, safe. I don't know why they popped into my head. But verse 9 is what I want to read, and I use this a lot.

And look, it's a complex thought, almost like a riddle. But when your mind allows you to kind of play this out, this is where we, this is one of the verses that we conclude on why a baby is safe despite being born in a crooked world. A flawed world. Yeah. It says once I was alive apart from law. Now, this is the guy writing this.

It's not, which he addressed the section of those before the law was given. We're going way back to Moses. But Paul says once I was alive apart from law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. What does it mean? It means he was too young to understand what the commandment said, but when he got old enough to know what the commandment said. That's what I think.

He started violating them. Yeah. He had to worry. He was old enough to know better, but he just made the wrong choice, which is common to every human being who has ever lived except Jesus. It's even more impressive that it's Paul who was Saul because Saul loved the law. Saul is the Pharisee. A Pharisees is a Hebrew of Hebrews.

I mean, in other words, if a person could have been saved by their own abilities, it would have been this guy. That's right. And yet he's the one writing in what we're about to read, the most conflicted thing you've ever seen when you try to do it yourself. So, and killing people at one point in his life who actually embraced the grace of God and he was having them kill because of it. And felt like he was doing the right thing. It felt like he was doing the justice. It was al-Qaeda on steroids. But think about where we're at in Romans.

He just got through discussing in Romans 6 when you're born again and being dead to sin. So to me, by contrast, and we just read that apart from law, sin is dead. So let's say the baby is born. Let's take this one that, you know, my nephew-in-law, delivered, not being a doctor with a drill bit. Does that baby, even right now, does that baby know what lying is, stealing is, and immorality? That's what I was going to say. Does the baby know?

Take the Ten Commandments, go to the crib. We could do it tonight. And you start reading the law. What is this baby going to do? How much of that is the baby going to understand? Yeah, that little two-week-old baby said, I didn't realize that. The baby's going to cry and then poop. That's what it's going to do.

And then smile. And smile. That's how it's going to react to the law. Is that the chain now? Cry, poop, smile. Yeah, because you'd always smile after it. Wait, eat. You got to eat.

Cry, eat, poop, smile. I think that's the four. But it's not going to understand law. Here's the point. Not guilty. Correct. Bill. He's alive, the child is, apart from law.

You got to make the call with enthusiasm. He's alive. The baby is alive apart from law. But when the commandment came at some age, everybody kind of roll back there. Everybody go back. Everybody who's listening, go back. You hit them junior high years long in there. You know, it varies with the individual.

But at some point in them junior high going into high school, trouble started. Friction began. You can't pick a time or a specific age. because people are different. It varies for people. People are exposed to different things. Like, you know, some culture, some community, they're exposed to stuff right. You remember?

And everybody ever said that go do their head like this. I remember. I said, I do too. I think where people get off, you want to take a break? Yeah, it does take another break. I think where people get off is because they think by saying you need to be born again, which is a frequent term in a Bible, that means your first birth was somehow bad. But when you think about it, if we were created in the image of God, if he is the creator and sustainer of all life, that would be good.

I've always said when you're born the first time, that gets you on planet Earth. When you're born again, that gets you off planet Earth. Well, right. Well, who screwed it up, though, is my point. if you were born, and a lot of people who really struggle, you know, if they're born with disabilities or issues, you know, maybe because we are in a crooked world, things are not as we view perfectly from a physical situation. They're like, well, that can't be God because, but they're looking at it from the wrong perspective. The reason he sent Jesus, or the reason, you know, Jesus became

flesh was to alleviate the major problems. No matter what your problem is, compared to having your sins removed and living eternally in bliss, they're not that big a deal. It's just perspective. That's right. I mean, you could be born with difficulties physically, or things could happen like we've talked about from Romans 1, where you're like, well, why do bad things continue to happen? Why does God allow that?

we read it in Romans 1 he lets us go I mean you're like I'm leaving you know it always kind of comes back to that Luke 15 he's like I'm out of here I'm gonna be my own man because we look up at some point in our life and I think this is right before the trouble starts

when you start thinking this is my life it wasn't given to me this is my life nobody's gonna tell me what to do oh how many times have you said that in your life especially at a young age y'all yeah i mean i saw it recently my was within the last year with my oldest granddaughter you know it was just like it happened so quickly that she was just super innocent and i mean nothing you know nothing and then all of a sudden there was an awareness there was a change and we all of our family

knows that we were like with every one of my kids yeah everybody has to go through this and guess what it's always ugly because all men are sin i mean that's why he devoted a whole chapter three of basically the most depressing chapter I've ever read in my life saying there's no one righteous there's no one who does good. If I've had one letter, I've had hundreds that said he was doing fine, you know, but when he got they usually say, but he started running with the wrong crowd. Running with the wrong crowd. It's not exactly true.

They're trying to justify why he's operating like, you know, because the crystal meth is going, the drunkenness and they're all out there running the hooping and all. But once that sin takes over as a master, that's when the problems compound and which is the definition of the wrath of God. Because he's not stopping you from basically killing yourself spiritually and perhaps physically. It's your call. Yeah. But it's hard to come out of because once it takes over, it's like a snowball coming down the mountain.

And I was about the same age. That's what I told Lisa, you know, because you kind of marvel at it. I said, babe, do you remember when we were 14 and 15? I mean, that's when it started with us. I was like, you know, and you hate it because it's your grandchild. You know, you don't ever want them to suffer at all. But at the same time, you have to make the choice. I remember thinking when my old buddy Bubba, you know, like people were like,

oh, yeah, I was running with the wrong crowd. And I remember when his mom called mom and said, you know, I just don't think that Alan's a good influence on Bubba. Yeah. And when mom told me that, I was so offended. I was like, I'm a bad influence on him. In my mind, I was thinking, I have a fake Christianity going here. I look like I'm doing it right. How can you say I'm bad? But she was actually right. She was right on Target. She nailed it. But I was so caught up in this sinful life. But you don't want to look at yourself. It's always like you compare yourself. We talked about this in chapter two. That's Roman 7 coming up to Paul, no matter what I thought. I ended up doing bad. That's right. Well, that's what we're getting to. By the way, he adds it up. Is there what a, it's the only time in the Bible just mentioned like this. What a wretched man I am.

Who shall rescue me from this body of death? I love the word rescue too because that's, it has to be a rescue. Yeah. It's the only way of it. You can get on that, Jay, it's at Roman 7 because it is a speech. Well, it's one of the more, you feel like in this moment, the Holy Spirit tapped into Paul's writings, and you kind of feel his heart here. And it's something that we have always muttered to ourselves.

I think the number one word here is do. D.O. Do. Because he says in verse 14, we know that the law is spiritual, but I am unspiritual. Sold as a slave to sin. And you sold yourself. Don't never doubt it. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do, but what I hate I do.

And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. which, by the way, I heard a guy preach this one time, and he just, he read what I just read, and he's like, you know what this means? And everybody was like, because you really, it's hard to explain that, this battle war.

He's like, we got a lot of do-do in our life. I lost it, but nobody else laughed. Nobody else. No. Well, because he said do-do in the pulpit. I know, but I mean, I thought, you know what? He could have said other words. I was watching that movie because I brought up greater.

And it has one cuss word in it. It's S-H-word. And you're like, oh, no, Jay's recommending the movie and it had a cuss word. Yep, it sure does. But the kid who was a believer that went to Arkansas, when he, because the coach told him to say it back. And look, they had a cuss word. Do you not think coaches use profanity?

I think one cuss word in a movie about where they're hollering, you know, because it was almost unrealistic, you know, but one time. And he's like, what I say back to you? Well, the kid who is a believer said the phrase back, but instead of the S-H word, he used manure. And the coach was kind of laughing like, manure, huh? Because he's like, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you say what? But he just, because he believes, you know.

I really like that. But so he's explaining this battle. that goes on. And then he says in verse 18, I know that nothing good lives in me. That is in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I can't carry it out.

Now, this is a lot of do's here. This is his summation. A lot of do-do. For what I do is not the good I want to do. No, the evil I do not want to do. This I keep on doing. And it becomes comical. Now, if I do what I do not want,

to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it, which is why he said there's a lot of do-do here. So I find this law at work, and this is the real point. When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being, I delight in God's law, but I see another law at work in the members of my body waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. Now this is the key application. What a wretched man I am who will rescue me from this body of death, which is the right response because basically we can't do this.

That's what this is all been about. This is a righteousness that comes from God. You can't be good without our God. And to your point, Phil, where you started, thanks be to God, verse 25, through Jesus Christ our Lord so then I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin so that's the heavyweight fight going on in your brain soul spirit every day it's going to happen tomorrow it's going to happen every hour always there that's why your rehab centers they always get it down to we take this an hour

time. Minute by minute, hour, day at a time. Because once you've been just utterly dragged around as a slave to this and you start over, this war seems to be intense. I walked up to the rehab center. The woman who ran it was talking to a woman, young girl, 20 years old. The 20 year old, when I got within about 10 feet of them, I saw. stop because they were having a conversation. I didn't want to be rude. So I'm sitting there

in my Bible in my hand. And when the 20-year-old looked around and saw me holding that Bible, she cursed me with every filthy words you've ever heard, just screaming it at the top of her lungs, telling me what I saw I low down, no good son of a she were cussing me. I just sat there listen to her, and I thought, I haven't even spoken yet. but she just saw me standing there with the Bible, and she knew. You think she was a slave to sin? Was she a slave to sin? By the way, that same girl was converted.

A few days later, but the initial meeting was without any provocation, without before I said a word, I knew right then when the evil one gets control of a human being and they get in the shape, the Apostle Paul said, what a wretched man I am, she was a wretched little girl. And she was rescued from body of death. She was rescued from it. All right. We're out of time.

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