Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 301 | Phil Robertson Was a US Park Ranger and Jase Saw Al Get Struck by Lightning

Episode Date: June 27, 2021

Phil reveals that he was once a United States park ranger. Al talks about the time he was struck by lightning. Family friend Gary Osborne drops in to discuss Romans 9. Jase describes what it was like to be in a rollover crash while sitting in the back. Phil thinks of Jesus as the perfect attorney. And Jase discusses people who hate anyone who believes in Jesus. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So, Jase, you and I went to preaching school, which makes you an officially trained preacher. No. You know. Yeah, that's exactly what you are. You got the degree. You walked the stage. You shook the hand. You are a preacher. A trained preacher. Just keep that in your mind. So we were told in school that you never start a sermon with an apology. Do you remember that? I must not have been listening in that moment.

You know, Jace learned how to sleep with his eyes open in preaching school. I did. This is the greatest skill that I've ever learned. I tried it. I couldn't pull it off. You can do it, Phil. If you got to have somebody droning on for hours. That makes the recipe work. We had a few droners.

Anyway, so tell you just don't start with an apology. So I'm going to break the preaching school rule because I'm going to begin our podcast today. with not just one apology, but two. I got two apologies. One, the first one, dad, is to you because yesterday I was going to give you a belated Happy Father's Day because, you know, I know you were probably crushed because your sons didn't call you. And first of all, I couldn't sleep all night because y'all didn't.

I actually told you Happy Father's Day. You did? Did you? Well, Charlotte. like it went over well with you. It was memorable. So I was preaching in Tennessee, and I told the group there, I said, later today I'll call dad and tell him it's Father's Day.

Well, that got a big laugh because I said, Dad will not know that it's Father's Day. So anyway, Dad, so I apologize. We didn't give you a happy Father's Day. I said, happy Father's Day. And you went, yep. So the second apology is to you, Jays, because our second podcast we did yesterday,

I was going to mention, because I know how important it is to you, that we mark, you know, big podcasts. And that second podcast yesterday was our 300th podcast. Here we go. And so I apologize to you that I didn't make a bigger deal about it because I know how much that means to you to recognize that we have now completed 300 podcasts. So my full apologies to you, Joe. Yeah, well, you didn't have to. I don't realize numbers are important because, guys. named a book numbers.

It was Carl Houses' favorite book, that's what I was to say. Well, because he's always like, how many people did y'all have in your house the other night? I'm like, he used to count people in the foyer, so you can make sure they got added to the big list. Yeah, because he would like, he would do a, what do you call those things people do? The attendance count?

Well, yeah, but they send it out a bulletin. The bulletin. They have a bulletin. And it has numbers, like, from, people who met but we meet in homes and small groups so he would ask me after a year i was like why why does he keep asking me that because he would say how many y'all have i'd say pretty good many he said yeah but i mean what was the number i said well i didn't count yeah he used to tell me that from camp he'd say how many jall have out there said oh he had a big cruise and i know what's a what's the

ballpark give me a number i always wanted that number which is the job which is the job Which is funny now in Carl's memory, I guess. I was laughing the other day because now they don't send it out anymore by email. It tells the number of devices that tuned in. So it would be like 560 devices because they can count that apparently, you know, through technology. So now we not only know the people, we know how many devices are watching. Well, it just, I had a moment. You know how sometimes you just have life-changing moments in your life?

And I had a moment one time when I was young. There was a small church over on Mississippi River that asked me to come preach for a while. No, I said, look, I'm not a preacher. I'm a believer, but I will come. And so I actually went over there selfishly because I thought Mississippi River. Some of these boys may have a duckhole over there. Or someplace to catch a frog. So I got up and I said, I'll trade Jesus, you know, for,

maybe one of your duck hunting spots because they literally it wasn't about the money i mean i think they literally paid me like a hundred bucks yeah which paid for half of my gas to go over there but i remember sitting there and i mean there's maybe you know 45 people here and it's the same people so this life-changing moment i'm saying before i got up to speak i'm sitting on the front row because that's what you do yeah and the the first time we had a someone responsible to the invitation there, everybody looked around like, what do we do? This has never happened. We've sung an invitation song for 30 years, and now someone has come forward.

What neck? But before I got up and spoke, they had the numbers. They had a board, not a freaking bored, and they had like the giving numbers. I remember that. But I saw a guy, he got up before that because he had forgotten to change the number. and so he had a little, they had these little black, sticky things with white numbers.

And so he went up there and changed the five on 45 to 4. 44. And I thought, why would he do that? That's like, it was just, close enough,

you know, somebody's sick today. And so it just made me think, How little that knows. Well, it probably sparked a discussion at several households at lunch that day about, who was the one? Who was the one? You know, who wasn't there?

I was looking around and I think it was old brother or something. That's where I was going with that. So when I got up and spoke, I said, I realized that what I'm fixed to say, nobody's going to listen to. They're just sitting there. I say, because we're all thinking, who's the one? Who's the one? You used that for your open? That was pretty good.

It went over like a band of craters. I'm noticing a pattern on your preaching. A lot of crickets. Yeah, there are a lot of crickets, especially in the open. Maybe you're not a preacher. Maybe you just sleep through preachers. I have received a lot of criticism over my comment Sunday when I spoke about saying this is a tough crowd. Because Gary was in the other, and I'll introduce our guest eventually, but Gary was in the other room and he said they were fired up.

They were yelling and jumping up and down. That's what he said. Gary Glenn, actually, this is Gary Glenn. Are we going to call you Gary? Back in the day. If you're a childhood friend, then you're going to, usually you always stick with the childhood name, which was Gary. I know you go by Gary now to people.

And my dad, I'm a junior, so my dad was Gary Osborne. So to distinguish me from my dad, that's why everybody called me. I never knew that. Yeah. I just thought you liked two names. I call him Oz. Oz, because dad has to rename everybody. So it's funny when.

You know, I came into Jesus at 19, went church with all y'all, went off to law school down at LSU, found my wife, moved back here with her, and go back to WFR. And people literally just knew me as Gary Glenn. So they presumed my wife, Erica, her last name was Glenn. So they started calling her Erica Glenn. That's funny. Oh, they thought you were Gary Glenn. I got it, I got it.

So I love this about Gary Glenn. And so he's the most overqualified air-conditioned heating person in the world. He's an attorney, but he works at a place that does heating and air. I was like, I mean, Gary, you talk about overqualified. He's their CPA, too, I think. Oh, yeah, he can do everything. He's like a, he's like a. So we bought, actually, we bought Gary in because we're going to later on get to a text

that's a pretty good challenge in Romans 9 through 11. And Gary is kind of, I love it because Gary is now reminds me of us. Like when we all kind of, our leadership at our church started through our teaching ministry. And, you know, God just gives you a gift to be able to do that. And so Gary is one of our teachers at WFR does a great job. And so I'm watching that leadership kind of grow. And that's exactly how the three of us did it. We all just started teaching a class.

We first got there. And the dad first and then me and then Jace did some classes. but we kind of try to keep him in some small areas away from large crafts. I'm a man of the people. Because what happens is like with Gary Glenn, is he's done numerous legal services for me, and he'll start talking. And it gets into this legal babble of I have no idea what he's talking about.

So I'm like at the end of it, it's like guilty or innocent. you just want the you want to he's like what are you talking about i was like that's my point i are we guilty are we innocent i don't want to know how we got there i just want to know what we are so that'll be my role in this discussion well that's the smart people so gary so i have to say this so gary's he grew up his family your to your grandpa and your great-uncle uh the joneses we were always trying to keep up with the joneses they have a far off farmland that now is is borders our honey property so i i don't know if you know this gary so i'm revealing some things today on the podcast so my first job i ever had was hauling hay for your

grandpa i did not in your great uncle yeah i was i was about 13 or 14 years old and i would spend summers over there you know hauling hay and putting it in the barn and that's how i made my first money and they always paid cash so you know i was fired up about so i've always been close to them and then with some of your cousins, you know, I went to school with him. So I've always known Gary, but he and Jeff are the same age, so they were friends. So he grew up there. But Wendell, your uncle, has had a relationship with us for a long, long time as well. And Jace was just talking about Wendell when we came here.

Well, it was crazy. He called me this morning. He hasn't called me in weeks, months, perhaps. And I thought, oh, he must knew Gary Glynn was going to be on the podcast. I was like, yeah, we're fixing to do a podcast with Gary Glynn. And he was like, I got this culvert on our property. Phil's water is backing up into it. I was like, sound like to me, you need to talk to Phil.

I got to get over and see him. That's not that I was the easiest to reach. So I will reveal something today. Jay, you won't probably remember this. And Gary, I bet you don't know it. But dad at one point in his life, because I'll never forget it, with Wendell, Dad, you worked for the United States government. You were a United States.

In a window, United States Park Ranger. Yeah. You had the uniform, the Smokey the Bear hat. You were? We were giving everything but pistols. Do you remember that? They had a truck. Yeah, the whole thing.

They worked for the park service. I was everything but armed. Which is a big deal. It's like up here, right on up the river there, that park there, Corve Engineers. You did that and they paid you? All I did was go drive up in there, all of them. And there's one in Columbia.

I had to go from this one to Columbia, the one of them. Was I born? Was I born? You were here? Where was I during this time? I don't know. See, you missed a lot. You just, it's, we had little uniforms, you know.

We had the Smokey the Bear hat. They looked like, yeah. Take a picture. I saw a picture. The only thing I ever ran into out of all that checking the parks. You drive up and you just look around and say, you know, how's the park doing? Is, you know, some of the guy and his girlfriend, you know, I'd flash my lights at him, you know, he'd tear out.

But that's as deep as it ever got. So, and dad, it was funny because, see, that was pre-beard. And so, like, he, you know, he looked like a dude, you know. I was running around there unarmed in the, you know, up to 12 o'clock at night checking parks. But these days, oh, I would have to say, look, give me. some weapons. You would have your A.R. Driving around up and down the river because these places are way back off the beating track anyway.

Well, I don't, the only thing I remembered the uniform, but I remember, and I remembered Window was doing it with you. I mean, you all were partners. But you didn't do it for long. It didn't last long, so I guess you didn't like it. Was it the money that, lack of money, or was it? I've forgotten what it was, but it was. It just wasn't for you.

No. I don't. You know, everything has been talked about with our family, the books we've written and all that. I was thinking about it last night I was going to tell that because I don't think we've ever talked about that. That dad was a park ranger for the United States government. Well, that's like Missy got mad. I think it was the post-repentance.

Yeah, you were a Christian because we were down here. I think it was the post-repentance, and I was just trying to start thought, you know, blend in and be a productive citizen of America. And I was just trying to get off, getting drunk, running. So it was kind of a treatment center for me driving around. I think so. A little bit of extra money because we were fishing down here. I bet.

If you were clean shaving, then probably when you started growing the beard out, they probably had a no facial hair policy. They may have. So that might have led. He makes it. It was a little supplemental income. Yeah, it was a little money. Because you were trying to, we were all time, you and my own time.

I think it was while I was fishing. It was. It might have been. It was here. We were here because I said when Wendell was out here too. So let's take a break. Yeah. So it's just a little known fact. I was going to tell a story, but I'll save it for later. Now I got to tell her. You can't leave us hanging like that. Well, I was just saying because I was not aware of that.

And the same thing happened with Missy and I last night because I told her one time I had a job reading water meters. And she went, I did too. Well, I was with you. Oh, okay. I forgot that part. No, let me tell you. And so Missy's like, were you like my sidekick?

Were you mini me? But she said, what, were you making this up? I was like, why would I make that up? It was pretty embarrassing. I said, I read water meters. And she's like, were you dating me? What year was this? I was like, I don't remember numbers.

But I read. water meters. I said, as I think back on it, I said, I believe what happened. It was you and I think Tim Owens. Because his dad ran the water. Here's what happened. Because she said, how were you paid? I said, I was paid cash. I said, here's what I think happened. I think Al and Tim hired me and my buddy Blake and another guy named Tim. I said, they would pay us out of their check to actually go read the meter while they're sitting in the middle. It's all coming back to me doing some, you know, whatever we were doing. Yeah, not good activity.

And so I said, but I noticed they only called us on rainy, stormy days because they didn't want to get out in the rain. I was like, but me, it was a job. I rode the back of the truck. I said, but the last, and she's like, well, why did y'all quit doing that? I said, well, I got struck by lightning. That pretty well ended that. We said, the day that happened?

Yeah, she said, Al got struck by lightning? And she was getting more angry. She said, we've been together 35 years, and you're just now telling me all this? I was like, you didn't ask about this. How would it ever come up unless, you know. It was storming so bad. We were out there off a mock road. Yeah, y'all were driving too fast because that's what young youth did.

That's what we did. We slid off the road. You got to remember, I'm in the back of the truck. So when they slid off the road, my life is in imminent danger because I'm, I'm sitting with a tailgate down. So we all hit the ground and roll. Get up. I'm still alive.

And so they're like, let's go to the nearest shelter. So we go to a barn. It's a bow and coming. Yeah. And so we're at, who's it is? Who knows? We're just at some guy's barn. Meter readers.

And Al has hit. We're under the roof. He has his arm stretched out on the fence that goes all the way around the pasture. And it was lightning. Like, it was boom. And I just remember I was looking out. And Al went from on the fence to just go and by me. It struck that fence.

It struck the fence. It struck the fence. Come all the way down the fence. And blew him straight back. I forgot about it. It was one of the most incredible. I remember somebody said, you know, you were struck with I. I was.

And I forgot about that. I didn't, nothing really other than just kind of being dazed. Your shoulder hurt for a few weeks or something. Right, right. Because of where the contact point. where it did it. I forgot about that. You were like our assistants. Yeah, that's what Joe. That's what we were, we were, it was a kickback money on the side, kind of a water meter pimp situation. You got a subcontract sometimes. Yeah, well, you get, sometimes when you get

into the foot traffic of an operation. I didn't care. I mean, it was a good job until we went off the road. But where are we going to get in the Roma? Well, I told you I had a story. I would say for later, but I blew it right there. So sorry, babe. I'll tell you my secret. Yeah, when Lisa's listen to that. So anyway, yeah, so we get to Romans 9. Last week, last week, last podcast, we were at the end of Romans 8.

And did we ever read it, days? Did you finally finish reading it? I mean, you interrupted me with a story. You stopped a long, long in there about the mediating part. The mediating part. God's far as who can be against us. Yeah. We've lost you on your mind, Phil.

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Well, but you brought up mediating part, which I think you're talking about, I mean, we have to read Romans 8, 31 through. Right. To set this out. Well, I just think it's one of the greatest sections, even though Phil's right. I mean, he is constantly repeating himself saying, you know, six times in the first chapter.

he said, I got good news. I mean, he explains the gospel when he talks about grace. But then you almost feel his passion here, because I have a question for Gary Glenn, based on this section. In verse 31, he says, what then shall we say in response to this? I mean, here's a bumper sticker moment. If God is for us, who can be against us? I mean, I think I've said that hundreds of times in my life in various situations. And then I think you feel his passion here because he's like, he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also along with him graciously give us all things?

I mean, it was way more passionate what I read it. I remember hearing McGuigan, who's one of my favorite speakers, read this in a sermon one time, and he had so much passion, I couldn't understand a word he was saying. He's got a pretty thick Irish bro going there. But it was so, he, it was just, it got my attention because I had just read these words many times without the passion. Yeah. And it connected with me because I'm like, he's making us such a poignant point that he's like, he who did not even spare his own son but gave him up. And I think, too, I think he's harkening back there to verse 28. Like, if you love God, he's working everything out in history for your God.

good. And if that's the case, then if God's for you, who can be against you? Exactly. Right. What do you have to worry about? Because you tend to feel beat up, especially, I mean, it just goes over and over in the Bible, and especially when Jesus said, if you follow me, you will be persecuted. You, this is not, he never said, oh, it's all, you, this is going to be flowers and rainbows the whole time. And so we're in the spiritual war. I mean, the context here was his plan throughout and trust in his faithfulness. But in verse 33, it says, who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?

It is God he justifies. Who is it that condemns Christ Jesus, who died, more than that, who was raised to life, and who is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us? Now, we did reference the next phrase going all the way that nothing in all creation, death, life, you know, angels, demons, present, future can separate us from love of Christ.

Christian people should not say we lost our daughter. She's a godly woman. So we lost her. You did not lose her. Correct. Well, she wasn't lost. That's right. When someone said, we lost our uncle, we lost their dad.

He said, no, you didn't. You know, there's life beyond the grave. Right. good hands, his soul's alive, his body's in the cemetery. Jesus is coming back even for that, connect the two and here we go again. I mean, which is why Paul said we don't. It makes life a lot easier to live on the matter of earth. We don't grieve like the rest of men who have no hope.

That's right. And so that's what he meant by that. And Jay's told the story last time about the guy that met you on the road or whatever, you know, when y'all were a metal detective. Oh, who was angry at God. He thought he had lost his daughter, but Jace was talking. talking to him about and he said, you know. Well, he was listening to him.

He had a moment saying, well, you know, maybe he didn't lose her. She still. That's right. Which I think what we made the point is, that's where we get into trouble in life, is when you're trying to look at everything from your perspective instead of God's. I mean, we talk about the resurrection and him forgiving us all our sins. Like, these are just trivial things. I mean, if you get those things corrected, well, you're pretty much.

good to go. I mean, there's nothing in life that becomes a travesty there. You sleep a lot easier. Yeah. When we talked about, Gary, when that list back in 28 through 30, when that the idea about the God knew, the predestination in Christ, then the call, and then the idea of being justified and glorified, from God's perspective, we're in a glorified state. I mean, he already sees us as being with Christ and that. I mean, the idea of loving who we are. I see that a little differently. Right. Well, tell us about it. So, hang on, let's take a break. So in 828, he, and even going back, so I think he's addressing in chapter 8 there, these are people who are, they're grinding it out. You know, they're enduring the suffering of the Christian life. And he's going to give them three

reasons why, look, press on. And the first reason was the reward is so great, what you're going through now won't even compare to it, right? The second one is, God is with you. He's fighting right alongside you. He gives you the spirit who cries out, I have a father. And the third encouragement to press on is, God is working everything out for the good of those who love him. And then in verse 29 and 30, he gives evidence for that.

He's like, all right, he's working out everything for the good of those who love him, and you don't have to take my word for it. You can look through history and see that, you know, and y'all probably took it from the perspective of those God who God foreknow, like meaning prior to creation, I think all he's saying is all those that God knew before now, you can look at their lives and see how he called them and justified them, predestined them to be conformed in the image of his son, and they've already been glorified. So you look at like they have already, Abraham, Moses, the heroes of the faith,

you don't have to take my word for it, Paul's. You can look and see how. God did that in their life, and you can see how they've already been glorified. Look at the Transfiguration in Luke 9, how they had received partially the reward of the faith of Abraham. It's just hard for us to have that assurance because we're in a world. We're a sinful world. But actually, we're indestructible.

We're loved by the creator of the universe. You're in a pretty good position if you're more than a conqueror. I'm just saying. Why is that funny? I don't know. You just quoted a verse, but it became funny. Well, you know, it's one thing to be a conquer. We're conquer, we're conquered.

We're not more than that. What is that? I don't know, but it sounds awesome. But it's better. It's like, if he was willing to give his son to endure what he endured on your sake, don't doubt that he's got you back. I mean, like he. Right.

He's there for you. What was your question you had for? My question was because, you know, I've made many, many, many lawyer jokes throughout my life. Because, let's face it, for the most part, this profession is not viewed favorably among people. That was as nice as I could say that. But you have to have them. That's right. And I always said the only good defense lawyer that I've been.

known is Jesus because of 1 John 2.1. So I was going to ask your take because it says where we get that idea is where it says Jesus is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. So I was just going to get your general thought about since you are a lawyer of how Jesus being perceived as a lawyer. I mean, do you have any thoughts on that? Is this something that you've thought in your mind? Yeah, I mean, some, but I don't. think anything unique to anybody else. I mean, it's just like he is the perfect advocate. You know, lawyers try to put themselves in the shoes of their clients, but they can't. They hadn't walked in those shoes. Jesus is the ultimate lawyer because he's been in the same

spot you've been in. And so he can, he relates firsthand. It's not like he's imitating or pretending to know what was going on. He knew. Most people who break the law, I mean, a lot of times do you break the law and break the law, You're guilty as charged. But in this case, you have this cosmic attorney whereby when he gets done with the case, you said, he's free to go. That needs to be a friend. We need to Google that and see if that's actually afraid.

I have a cosmic attorney. And you look at you. Boy, intercedes. I think we just did another t-shirt, a cosmic attorney. That needs to go on a shirt. I've been wearing these shirts that y'all been giving me. I thought y'all were doing. They're like, no, some companies do it.

We'll say something on 5K.000. I have a cosmic attorney. I'm represented by what would be the best way to phrase that? I think we're on to something here. I think John had it best. He said, God is justice. Somewhere in there. Yeah, God is just.

In other words, if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, the truth's not in us. If we confess our sins, He's faithful, God is, and just, and will forgive us our sins, purify us from all unrighteousness. Any mistake you'll ever make once you come to Jesus by faith. If we're claiming not sin, you say, well, are we going to make some mistakes when we come to Jesus? Afterward, you say, yeah, he said, sure, but they're not being counted against you. You're like, how does that work?

I write this to you so you won't sin. That's the right. or it was turning. If anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense. Here comes the cosmic attorney, Jesus Christ, the righteous one. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, not only for ours, but for the sins of the whole world. That is a lot on your table. When you say you are responsible for lifting the sins of everyone.

So the thing about this, not only is Jesus positioned as the perfect attorney, he also does something that no attorney ever in the history of mankind would do, which is, look, when they're found guilty, not if, when they're found guilty, whatever punishment they deserve, put that on me. No attorney would do that. By the way, odds, has he ever lost the case? And if he is, he's more than Congress. I did a sermon one time where I went in all the different verses because Jesus is really represented as everything in the courtroom.

I mean, he's judge, he's defense attorney, he's prosecutor because by his lifestyle is what we're all measured by, he's our witness. I mean, everything that would happen, he's the jury, he's the whole thing. I mean, it's the whole courtroom is Jesus. But you know, it is a mind bender boy. It's when he ends that little section up in Rome's 8 and you get down to 17. And all these things, you know, we face death all day long. We're considered as sheep to be slaughtered. A lot of people, that's why I brought up that we lost this one and we lost that one.

Physical death doesn't separate you from God. Right. And all these things, we're more than conquer us through him who loved us. And the first thing he says is neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God. You're like, I tell you what, that is a relationship in wrong. Rock. Literally rock. Exactly right.

Maybe that's why they call him a rock of ages. That's right. Or the cornerstone. Well, I've always said that he's interceding for us. You read that first John, too. But I like how it says for us and he died for the sins of the whole world. I mean, he's available. He's offered to the world.

I mean, it's like he added that part. Just, you know, don't, don't mistake the fact that he's representing you whether you love him or not. he's offering his services right now you you say no i think i'll take that's why when you read roman jade after reading that it's not like you know he's got a fee reserved he foreknew him and that's where those are the ones he's going to help he's going to love those but to hell with the rest of them it just doesn't make any sense it's a bad it's a bad way to look at it doesn't make any sense yeah let's take another break well i want to so garry i want you to you've you've done a lot of study in this and and you'd send me some notes and i loved them so before we get into the verse

verse by verse in chapter 9, I wanted to talk just a little bit about the purpose of Romans 9 through 11 in the context of Romans. What's Paul going to communicate over the course you think over these next three chapters? If we kind of get a high view, then I think once we dive, then it'll make a little more sense. Yeah. So in one through this point, so from the beginning of the book, he walks through and he shows, all right, everybody stands convicted under law, whether you're Gentile, whether you're a Jew, you stand guilty, and there's no way out from under that. The only answer, the only hope is in Jesus. Well, we get to Romans 9, and it's like he's going to address the Jews in particular,

specifically. It's basically like, look, I understand the ramifications of what I'm saying, which is, if Jesus is the linchpin, if he's the bottleneck through which to get to God, and most of these Jews have rejected him. There's some that had, but most of them had. And I'm going to deal with that. I'm going to deal with the arguments they have, particularly from a defense perspective. Like if the Jews were God's chosen people, and by and large they've rejected him, does this nullify the gospel? Does this show that it's not true? And he's going to walk through and show, no, you've misunderstood that election or that God's choice of you as his people.

Right, right. Because they were looking at it from. nationalistic just because we're from where we're from we're we made it it was you know it's funny as hey to this day was still exactly and I think there's something to be said about why you do something matters and it's not necessarily you know what you do it but why you do it matters to God and my point is it's like when you think about right and wrong seeing or righteousness. When you think about that verse, it says the grace of God

teaches us to say no. You know, us as individuals, we focus in going back to Israel. On the law, they were real familiar with what you're supposed to do. But I think what they were having trouble with

is that this God is for everybody. Right. And so you think about how, you know, it'd be hard for them to get that because they're like, well, you're not from Israel.

so you're out. And to your point, I think that's, the whole thing is, Paul makes the point that you were chosen, elected as God's people, to now be the vehicle for the whole world to know. They saw it just the opposite. They thought it all came to them. You know, it's funny because I last night was at the house and, you know, he had no idea where we were in this podcast, but he asked me if he said,

someone asked me a question. I didn't know the answer to us. I wanted to ask you. I said, well, what was it? Because he'll ask me, you know, a Bible question. That's odd that Si would say he doesn't know. I know. You don't hear that very often.

And I said, lay it on me. I didn't know what he was going to say. And he said, he said, how did the Jews miss it? I mean, how did they miss Jesus? And it was really great because it was right where we were on this text. And I said, well, Siret, they missed it because they had a wrong narrative of why he came. They thought all physical establishment. That's why even the disciples who spent three years with him and him constantly telling them,

The last thing they said was, is now the time we're going to establish this? Plus, he introduced what he's discussing in Romans 9 and Romans 2. He said, there will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil. This is under, you could call it, the doctrine of condemnation, mean all of cannot. Where you get to the Jews, there will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil. First for the Jew, then for the Gentile. but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good first for the Jew then for the Gentile and this incredible statement for God does not show favoritism but by the time you get to

Romans 9 he's going to show you what favoritism looks like and now just to make it practical so you text me and asked me if I could preach 9 through 11 and I was like I wanted to say yeah it ended up I couldn't do it because the date but I did that so I wouldn't have to yeah now you put it back on me So at first I was like, all right, this is a really technical passage. I don't know how I preached this in a way that's applicable to everybody. And then it just kind of hit me. You know, my story of being a guy who came up, you know, good family, went to church, you know, I was associated with Christians. It's kind of the same story as the Israel likes.

And I had the hard heart just like they did at this point, which was my first argument was, well, I don't have to surrender to Jesus why I'm a good guy. You know, that's the first thing, which Paul eliminated for the Jews. You're not good. No one's good. And then the second thing was, well, I mean, I come from a good family. My lineage is good. Yep.

Nope, that's not it. And then Romans 10, then he lays out, you don't have any excuse in this. You knew you should have known. The message went to you. And so when you get it to that when it's me or when you're a parent and who's trying to raise your children up. in the Lord and they reject Jesus. I mean, that's exactly what Paul's dealing with in 9, 10, 11.

And you miss it. Just like Dad says, he was in church. He grew up in a Christian family. He was 18. He goes off to college. And none of that applied to you. I mean, right? You just missed the whole.

Missed it by a mile. Tens of thousands of times. That's right. This is what happened. And I think you try to ride on the faith of others. It just doesn't. It won't work. Because every person has to have that personal surrender.

like you said. But you made the right call when you brought in ours because the level of aptitude, whatever that he needs, he's the only one that's like an A plus guy among three C plus guys. And I'm at least a B. I'm like a D. I pass, but the grade didn't really matter. So we started to get up. Ben started a 5-1c3 and it's called C-plus.

ministries for dad's because he's always a lower the bar so dad you've made an interesting point before we go at the house I wanted you to make this let's take no break make the point about what you notice something about this section in Romans before we dive in if you just look the arguments are made but by the time he makes the arguments in Romans 9 and 10 11 you get to 12 and it's it's back on this is how you should roll and it certainly didn't have anything to do with your life under a law of works where you go through all of these rituals and the sacrifices are put forth in the blood of animals to to to give that up you should be jumping up and down about giving that up yeah and I thought

that was really good I hadn't really made that comparison that you could really stack the almost exact chapter numbers. Really? With Hebrews. And you see that same explanation. Of course, that whole book is aimed at what he does here in three chapters. It's the idea that you can't miss it. This is what we've been looking for the whole time.

So, which I've always thought it had to be some disciple of Paul that wrote Hebrews, if it wasn't him himself, because he makes the case so strongly. And my personal opinion is this was so passionate for Paul because he missed it. I mean, to the point that he was killing. Christians and imprisoning this. So, I mean, think about how passionate that would make you. Because to me, I look at it from backwards because I'm not real smart. And so every table needs a D plus man.

So don't feel bad. But I'm street smart because I figured out their problem was they violated two things that Jesus stressed. Didn't love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength. Because if they would have, they'd have been open to his new idea. That's good point. And they sure didn't love their neighbor as their cell because they said, you're out. because you were born on the wrong line across the wrong line. And that's really what it was about, which here's what's fascinating to me about this chapter.

People go here to try and prove that there's only this select group that's going to make it. And like what you said, to hell with everybody else. And there's nothing you can do to change that. And that they built a whole religion on that. When in actuality, that was the problem he was. was addressing that they were saying, we're from this country, we're God's chosen people to hell with everybody else. And sorry. Right. And they didn't recognize that he was trying to use that relationship with them to make this available to all people. That's right. They viewed their

election as a as a catalyst to bring themselves up rather than the vehicle through which he was going to bring everybody else. That's the, exactly. But I'm saying I went backwards. Yeah. to get there in that why is Jesus keep stressing love God with all your heart love your neighbor or yourself why does he keep telling that why does he keep telling that because they're looking at other people saying you're you're from their own neighborhood and look you see that in america in a very smaller way compared to the eternal consequences of people but even born state to state you know our we focus on our differences we do the same thing we're not looking at let's all come together no matter where we're from or what we look like or for the good of the country.

We can't even do that in our own country, much less from a worldview on coming to God. And that's why out of all the conversions you read about in the first century, you know, pauses the flashiest, you know, you see what I did there just flashiest, flash of light. I really didn't see it, but it was a stretch. Okay. He was the flashest, but the one that is the most meaningful to me is Nicodemus. because Nicodemus was embedded with all this religious leadership, but he was curious enough to then start seeking.

And you watch over the book of John, by the time we get to the end of it, there he is, you know, as a guy who embraces. You're right out. When I went to Israel, that was in span a couple weeks there. That was the one thing that stood out to me. And the guy I thought about the most was Nicodemus. Because once I experienced the culture, and look, I loved it.

I loved some of their rituals. and you think, oh, why would anybody want to be ritualistic and keep the law? Once I experienced it, I realized they like this. Their families were together. They celebrated. It wasn't like what I thought. And so for them to have to be open-minded to, oh, God has a new way, I could see how it would be difficult. You know, it just, look, there's no, God has a way.

You got a Bible. You got to be open-minded. but I do sympathize with the situation. The Jews were trying to hold on to the First covenant. It had regulations for worship. This is Hebrews 9. And I'll read Romans 9 after read Hebrew 9. Tabernacle was set up and the lampstand was there

and the consecrated bread and all of the most holy place. They had a second curtain and the high priest when everything had been arranged like this. It was a really holy-looking place and these activities. The priest entered regularly into the outer room to kill. Only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins of the people that they had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this,

that the way into the most holy place had not yet been disclosed. as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. It's an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and the sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshipper. They're only a matter of food, ceremonial, ceremonial drink, and all that. Until the time of the new order, what the Jews were struggling with 2,000 years ago

when the Apostle Paul was addressing them, oh, they're still struggling with it. Well, when Christ came, as high priest of the good things you already hear, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, that is not man-made, that is to say, not part of this creation. He didn't enter by means of blood of goats and bulls of calves, but he entered the most holy place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. So when you look at that, It's down toward the bottom in 15. For this reason, Christ is the mediator of a new covenant. The Jews were balking at this complete, think about a revolutionary change.

You've been practicing something 1,500 years. And you just think somebody rolls in God and says, over, boys, it's over. Right. It's time of your order. You literally can be forgiven now. I said it. A little differently than that. But yeah, that was the point.

The blood of these animals, and I would look cool and all that. But you know, anyway, you followed the law, you did it. But those days are over. So,

you remember, it would be hard thinking of how people, we see little groups, they get their head. Plus, Phil, look, they're hated without, for just being who they are.

I know. As part of the new Israel, the new Jerusalem, which we are, we're hated. without reason. There are people say, oh, you believe in Jesus? I hate you.

And you say, why would they do that? Just because they can. I mean, there's no, that you're not going to find a reason other than that. You remember Jesus. He mentions it in Romans 9. He goes, you know, because I read you, Hebrews 9, there's of the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the temple worship,

the promises, the patriarchs from them. So you read it, you say, boy, that'd be hard to give up. Well, you remember when Jesus died on the cross? And working in the heathen Gentiles with it, they're like, they're not just that wicked bunch? They just couldn't. Remember the moment Jesus died, there was an earthquake.

And the Bible says the temple curtain that you mentioned that went into the Holy of Holies was torn in half. And I thought, you know, there's a lot of earthquakes you see. You don't hear about temple curtains tearing in half. I mean, God was letting them know. in that moment, this is it. This is the new order. And they actually had a physical way to see that.

Now, I don't know how they probably said, how that happened? Because you'd be punished. You'd probably be put to death if you did that on your own. Oh, nobody would touch that. Only one person could even go in there. And that was once a year. Which is why I like it because God said, yeah. What are you going to do?

Watch this. That's what I'm saying. That was some earthquake. I put that thing in too. Come kill me. That's exactly right. The new order. I wanted to read one verse because I'm going to take it out of context, but I think, I'm being honest.

I think a lot of... At least you're honest, Joe. I think a lot of people struggle with understanding that Jesus represents 100% God and 100% man. And I think that should be a natural struggle because we have trouble relating to cosmic attorneys, you know. But if you just want a verse that basically says that, forget what the rest of it being. We'll talk about that next time. I always like this Romans 9-5 because it says, theirs are the patriarchs and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ.

And you can read those two genealogies in Matthew and Luke. You can trace the human ancestry. of Christ. So would that be, ancestry. heaven? Who is God overall? So you can trace his human ancestry.

Who of Jesus? Who is God overall? Very few passages like, just say it that clearly. What did I just read? You can trace his human ancestry. Oh, and he's God overall.

Yeah. He also started the book by saying he's by his human, he's the son of David, but he's also the son of God. I just thought I'd throw that in. And so you're talking about cosmic attorneys. He's representing those two sides. Yeah, perfectly, by the way. All right. So see Gary, you see our podcast where we just did the whole podcast.

We never actually got to it first because we like to talk into it. I thought this is what you're going to do. Oh, yeah. Sorry, Jay's got to one verse out of context. So we'll establish context My boy, it was a doozy You'll sit in on the next one, right? All right.

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