Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 302 | Phil Chases a Guy with a Chainsaw and Jase Disagrees with a Preacher

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

Phil chases one of his workers with a running chainsaw. Jase shares his disagreement with a preacher who interpreted scripture for his own gain. Al tells the story of escaping from the babysitter when he was three years old. And Jase describes the raining of frogs and why one more night with the frogs might not be as bad as it seems. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we're welcoming Gary Glenn back to Unashire. You were so good, Gary, on the last podcast, that we just said, you know, we've got to have more Gary as we get into this text. And Romans 9 can be difficult. You're so much better than Zach. You know, Zach sits in from time to time, but, you know, let's face it, it's a charity case. We're just trying to help the boy. But y'all are actually running buddies, right? You and Zach?

Oh, yeah, y'all's family. It started with Jep. So, like, in the second grade, me and Jep became close buddies. And the reason why is because we were the co-quarterbacks on the little flag football team. You're too young. Quarterbacks. So you're too young and stupid to, like, have hand signals for the play. So you just have two quarterbacks.

You run me in there tell the play. Yeah. And then Jep, sending him Jep, the next time with the play. And so that's funny how when you're second grade, you're such a stud athlete. And then at some point, you looked at Jep. Jep looked at you and you said, we quit, we quit growing. It's over. We were vertically challenged.

What happened to all our speech? All of us peaked in the eighth grade. That was it. It was just like, you know. I remember Gary Glenn's, except for dad. His great grandfather. Grandfather. Grandfather.

His both the grandfather, then the uncle. Dutch and Glenn. Dutch and Glenn. Two of the finest individuals I've ever run out of those men. So he came out of a heritage of John. Jones mixed with a little Bamberg. And there he sits right there. I don't even know what that means, Phil.

I'm just saying a lot of people underestimate brain power. So based on people's heritage, they're like, well, I don't know about this. You know, Bamberg is it? Was your grandmother? I know. Bamberg. Yeah. Oh, they both.

So in that side. Was it two brothers and two sisters? Yes. Oh, that's amazing. So double first cousins. Oh, got you. But the Bamberg side, I mean, like, it was about 50% of them were alcoholics and about 50% of them were geniuses. So, like, you had.

That's kind of what I was wanting to say. You hear that name. And these parts are, get away than that. You want to make sure it land on the right side. Yeah, that's right. But you look at Gary Glenn, you're thinking, hmm. So, genius. The blood must deep, you know.

Yeah. Just coming up, you know, after. So where does Zach enter the fray? Because he didn't grow up here. Yeah. So in college, Jeff and Zach lived together. Oh, yeah. We remember that.

Oh, yeah. So they were my best friends. Were you hanging with them back then? Oh, yeah. Oh, boy. We were all into, I mean, all into sin in the same period of time. And I didn't realize you were in that group, too. Because we didn't know you yet as a believer until later.

Well, and that's how it came about. So we're all into the same. you know, no good stuff. And all of us kind of got broken and came to repentance at the same time. That's right. In fact, you know, we helped, we helped Jeff. Yeah. And, you know, you heard the story.

We've told it before. Dad tells it great is that he, first thing he said was what took y'all so long. Like, you know, he'd been waiting for us to intervene into his life. And, man, that was very impactful. Well, I think, to all of us, we were like, wow, that's pretty powerful. And then me and Jeff ended up, I mean, we got back to. same time. Phil baptized both of us. February 18th, 98.

And for me, it was like, I just rolled in, started working for Phil, and this was back when Duck Commander was at the house. And so the two of them are just chipping away at me for Jesus. But I was Phil's grunt during this period of time. Like, he's always had, you know, we've all been there. We've all been there. So every morning, every evening, you know, go over, work with him at the land. And he brags on you and say, boy, I tell you, what that Gary Glenn stout.

Boy, look at him. He can get that thing up the hill. He was stopped as a young, young buck. Bill, it's over. We don't have to play it anymore. You got us all now. We got it. So that brought you, your roots coming to Jesus.

Then your degrees came later through via LSU. So since that point, what do you actually do now? That's a good question. Now, so I'm one of the owners of a mechanical contracting and service company, which is just plumbing and air. And so we've got a manager over the construction. We've got a manager over service. My job is to handle legal for all of it and oversee kind of each department and all the money.

Well, I will pay you real dollars as you go home. Look over there, see what the number is on that apparatus. The cold where we chill our dear. And it's real simple. How do you turn it off? Where is the button that says, A business transaction is taking place. Only in the layer.

We have a freezer that's malfunctioning. So we determine that during the break while ago. In the summertime, we're not hanging up meat out there. So I said, Dan, what are we doing running this thing? I said, eating up the electric bill? I said, we don't need the cold room. We're not hanging up deer back in it. Turn it off.

Yeah. And we're right there. We turned everything out there. It won't go off. The off switch doesn't work. But money is coming your way if you can figure that out. So you have just reentered the grunt work for Phil. Say I mean, I can get it off with a sledgehammer.

Yeah. I mean, how complicated could it be? But I can't figure it out. So I thought, well, maybe somebody hit the line. That's when Gary Glenn comes in. So see if you can get that. So you said there was a story you had about when you were grunting for that. What was it?

Yeah. So basically, I was a grunt every morning, every evening. out, you know, at that point we're clearing holes. So every morning we'd go out and he'd cut trees and it was my job to drag trees into a pile, which later we'd burn. Well, one day we had Jep, which was a rarity, come down in another buddy. Yeah. Jep never was big on physical labor. So we're sitting there, the three of us, we're watching Phil cut down a tree. And I'm like 15 yards from Phil. And I'm noticing, man, as he's cutting it, I'm noticing that tree is looking like it's going to fall toward him.

And mind you, I'm 15 yards from him. Well, as he cuts through it, shown up, it starts heading toward it. Well, Phil just takes that chainsaw and starts going backward. And I'm thinking to myself, he's coming toward me and that chainsaw is pointed right at me.

So as he's coming backward, I start going backward. And that was all fine and dandy until I ran into his truck, which was parked there. And there's no more backing out. And he's still coming with a chainsaw pointed right at me.

So at this point, I'm yelling. Jep's yelling. Our other buddies yelling, stop. Whoa, whoa, stop. Phil keeps coming until finally he gets right to me and literally cuts my jeans where my wedding tackle is and

hears us and stops. And we're all shook up and we're cooling down and finally Phil kind of reverts to himself and says good night. Hadn't anybody ever told you not stand behind a man with a chainsaw? Yeah, I never had a

heard that phraseology wedding tuck I like it I'm going to use that it's a Chad Johnson line oh my goodness so welcome to our world it was your fault that he's back that was my first take of that somehow another Robertson's as they feel have a talent of making something

potentially disastrous your fault what are you standing behind me for you morrow that's what he told him obvious day. He's like, I mean, I wouldn't be kissing the dogs. I said, Ms. Kay, that's an old saying. Let a sleeping dog lie. I said, she just woke him up. And he just attacked her without, you know, he just wound up and it was done. But it really, really, she's having that work done this morning. So,

so you almost got. She'll be okay. You almost got the chains all circumcision. It's like to me, the tree, if y'all were backing up and you run to the truck that it, almost fell on the truck. Yeah, I think it kind of felt he was here first, and then when he backed up, he got out of the angle of the tree. Yeah. Yeah, dad's not really like,

when he gets going on something, it's like whatever happens is going to happen. You know, that's the way it always was with us too. I told, when I was telling Missy about our water meter encounter, and you're getting struck by lightning. And she's like, her initial response was mine on that. She's like, she said, how are you still alive? I said, you know, I've asked myself that.

Oh, me too. I look back because in my case, Jay's, at least you had it where, like, that mom and they were a little bit older. I mean, they were teenagers. Yeah. Raising me. I mean, I was a baby, and they were teenagers. You know, mom's only 17 years old on a college campus. I mean, at one time I wandered off and the cop saw me because some babies that are not paying attention.

Because, I mean, you know, dad's in school and mom's working. And so they asked me, which is kind of ironic since you're Jones, my aunts and uncles used to call me Alan Jones for some reason. They just label me that. I mean, they call me that until they all died, Jones. By the way, since we are looking at Romans chapter 9, one other point, Oz, because in these scriptures, normally you're not here, but I'm glad you're here. it is interesting that to know what Jesus went up against, what he was up against. From that time on, Matthew 16, back before Jesus had died,

was being raised from the day. From that time on, Jesus began to explain to his disciples. Now, listen to how this reads, that he must go to Jerusalem, suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priest and teachers of the law and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Now Peter took him aside, never, that's not going to know way. He's trying to thwart the good news from the world. Peter's hollering about it. Oh, you're telling me. I turn one page. The son of man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him on the third day.

he'll be raised from the death. You just start through it. We're going up to Jerusalem. I'm in Matthew 20 now. He said, why I keep saying this? The son of man will be betrayed to the chief priest and the teachers of the law. They'll condemn him to death

and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked, the Roman Empire, to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day, he'd be raised in life. Now, I just gave you three in the book of Matthew. You can go Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. he repeatedly says this. Well, by the time it's happened,

the event has happened, and the disciples took off the apostles and started getting that spread out through the whole Roman world. Well, all of a sudden, by the time you get in the 50s, 30, 40 years after the event, what Jesus said, what happened,

that's exactly what happened. Well, the apostle Paul is still, up against him. He's trying to explain to him. This is for everybody. You're God that brought you out of Egypt way back. He's all nations to be blessed through Abraham's faith. This is for everybody. He doesn't show favoritism. You are. And there's the rub when you start in Romans 9. To this day, they're still just a little, I love them. My savior came from there. I told who's the guy that got another podcast,

Cicero, what's his name? Ben Shapiro. Shapiro and others. I'm like, man, look, this is for everybody. But I guess my question is, based on Romans chapter 9, 10, 11, how do you get, I mean, we've been at this for 2,000 years arguing about it, trying to get people to see it. So where's the breakthrough?

How do we break it through, breakthrough? I mean, ultimately, it's the answer to every Bible question. Jesus, you know, but I mean, I think that's what they were dealing with, especially, and he's going to address in Romans chapter 9, you've misunderstood your election, why God elevated you as a people. you are saying, well, he chose us and we're his whatever special possession. We're saved because he chose us. And he's going to explain, no, you've misunderstood why God raised you up, why he elected you. The reason why he did that was to bring salvation to all peoples.

And there has been progress made, Dad, because you and I spoke a few years ago at an organization over in Dallas, I think, of Messianic Jews, which embraced Christ as their savor, just as we have. but then they hold on to a lot of Jewish heritage and the physical part of vision. But they also embraced us. They did. And only that, they are. There's evident. Their big mission effort is to go back to Israel and try to talk to every Jewish person to say,

look, you need to embrace Jesus. Let's take another break. Well, you never told us why you were Allen Jones. Yeah, I know. That's funny. That was a clip here. The rest of the story. So the police officer said, I'm three years old.

I'm walking down the road. And he says, where's your parents? I was, I don't know. And he said, what's your name? And I said, Alan Jones. Because you were three. I was three.

And I was walking down the road. And so he said, can you take me to where you live? And so, you know, it wasn't far, but I was pouring over there. So he took me back to the vet. And then he reamed out. Mom said, you know, I don't remember this. Mom said he reamed out this, whoever mom's friend was supposed to be watching. He was in there sleeping, you know.

So you are almost. in. We are. Alan Jones. That's what they always call me. So, so, so dad's got us to, back to this text in Romans chapter nine is where,

last time we talked about, we kind of gave the overview, but I want to dive into some of these passages today. And he says in verse two, he says, I would start one. I speak the truth in Christ. I'm not lying.

My conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit. I always like that Paul's kind of got to make us, you know, look, this is for real. But here's really the kind of, the context of why he did this whole passage. I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. And again, I think that's so practical for him because of who he was. And he just was thinking back to being. He was a highly educated Jew of all Jews.

He was a Pharisee of Pharisees. This is how he described himself. And then he says, for I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, which you know what? I've said a lot of things before, but I don't think I've ever said, I would rather be lost and you'd be saved if you would just get this. I mean, so what he said.

I mean, I'd rather be cursed and cut off myself. That's a, that's a strong statement. It is. That's why it really reminds me of, like, Christian parents who are weeping over a child that's retreat. I love that illustration. The only time I've ever made such statements or when I was talking to one of my kids.

Right. And I went just to, I didn't say cut off, but I was just like, dead. Yeah. Well, and I was saying about that, you know, I preached recently about we were back in Romans 4 about Abraham in that moment, you know, where he was going to sacrifice Isaac the reason of the resurrection.

And I thought about, you know, Paul Stevens when he does his testimony. He was willing to do what you said, what Paul said. He had already done it in his mind. He was there because he thought he'd just raise him up. But Paul Stevens tells a story about when he first found out Jake had diabetes. And of course, they're scared, you know, because, I mean, he had a bad. And so he went in there when he was sleeping And he got down his knees by the bed

And this is the first guy you ever led to the Lord by the way Yeah And he got down his knees and he said I gave him to God I was like We don't know how to deal with this But I want you to take him And whatever happens happens And I want to be able to live with that

Then he said he was so overwhelmed him That he went to Zach's bed next Did the same thing with him Then he went back in there where Kim was sleeping and did it with her. And it was just such a poignant thing. And I thought about it. He did just what Abraham did.

He said, I hold nothing back, God. And that includes my children and my wife. And, of course, you know, now Jake and all over and doing great. So I just thought that's the idea here where Paul was like, if you could just see it, if you could just get it, if you just grab it. I mean, I was there. Yeah. And now I'm somewhere different.

Then he goes on to say, he said, the people of Israel, theirs is the adoption as sons. there's the divine glory. By the way, before you, I've read that a while ago, I've always, I'm not quite sure. What is it meant? There's is the divine glory. I'm all centered in that Jesus was a Jew or is a Jew.

What is he saying there? I think it's that. I think God's presence rested, you know, at times in the temple. And the tabernacle. Yeah. So I think it's just like, I think what he's just saying there is like you were given a privileged place. You were going to be the seed line of the Messiah. The prophets were going to come through the law. Through this, people are going to understand that's the divine glory of all this.

You remember when Moses would wander off to go spend some time with God and he would get in a tent and Joshua was with him and it said the glory of God would descend on the tent. When he came out, he was glowing. Yeah. Like radioactive. So whatever the glory of God was in a physical sense, It lit him up. But he's getting diverse. If you walk out glowing, that's a check this out. Might want to listen to that guy. But he's getting a five where he says, which is what I brought up last podcast about tracing

the human ancestry of Christ. I mean, he's like, you produced through me, Jesus. Right. Who is forever. I mean, he's God overall, but he's forever praise. I mean, I think that's divine. glory is found in Jesus. Now, granted, they were God's chosen people for a reason, but the reason was that all men would be one day saved. But think about it, if you spend 3,000 years looking for

the Messiah and patiently waiting for him, and then he shows up, and then you don't believe him. Well, it's difficult. Why was he such a lot? It was bad narrative. I'm telling you. They just, they missed the purpose throughout all their history in their Old Testament. They missed the purpose.

I mean, a verse popped into my head. I want to read it because I think this chapter is a place where people go and try to just have only this select few saved and try to explain, whether it's the Jewish nation,

which is what they're saying, which is, no, we're doing it this way. And if you're not from Israel, you're out. Would some of them say that? Sure.

There's nothing you can do. we were just born in the wrong place. Then you have people later on that says, well, no, it's just those who believe, who trust the whole process that he chose, he predestined, he called there. Only those are going to make it. The rest of you, you're just born in a wrong place and time.

Really the wrong time, you know. But I like this verse in 1st Timothy, same writer via the Holy Spirit. In 4-9, it says, this is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance that we have put our hope in the living God who is the Savior of all men and especially of those who believe

and I just like the way that's worded it's like it's available to everybody whether you're from Israel whether you're not or whether you're born in Louisiana, California or Iran. I mean, he's the savior of everybody, and we hold on to that. Well, and it's especially awesome for us

who actually believe it. Right. I mean, I think if we get that in our head, it tears down some walls. Well, and you said it last time, J. earlier on this podcast, that that's why the context of studying this is so important because you've got to understand

who is this written to and why. And it's very clear who it's written to and lie. And so what he's going to do with the rest of this chapter is give illustrations of different people from their history, from Jewish history, that will show that it's not about your merit. It's not about what you can do. And all these illustrations are where he's going to go. So that starts this argument.

And just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it's not true. That's right. I mean, that's the bottom line. I think the danger that I've, I've seen from studying this is you need to be open-minded as a human being. I mean, whenever you make your mind up, especially something as serious as your eternal destiny and your message and purpose that you're going to have on the earth and what you share and how you're trying to help people, you need to be open-minded.

Because we've all been wrong, which, I mean, he spent three chapters saying, there's nobody good. You all make mistakes. Well, we make mistakes just in our studies as well. But whenever you make up your mind about something, well, what if you're wrong? Even sincerely mistaken. I mean, all of a sudden, something drastic can happen in your life on how you affect other people and even trickle down to your family.

Because, you know, from what I read, I'm like, you don't want to miss that Jesus is God and man. Right. And the ramifications of that. And that he wants all people in. that we shouldn't. When you look at all the problems of our world, this makes way more sense to me than anything I've ever heard on a political platform.

It's like Jesus basically tore down all walls of division, politically, racially, nationalistically. I mean, whatever you can come up with a different, he tore it all down. The gender issues, every possible situation that we can say, no, we're different. He tore it down. He said, nope, you're all the same.

Well, it's really interesting because most of Jesus's contemporaries in the Jewish world had trouble accepting his divinity, his divine side, whereas most of the Gentiles had trouble embracing his humanity. Because you see it start right off the bat. He didn't really come in flesh. Flesh is no good. You can't be. And then look at our pal Dallas Jenkins. What's the greatest criticism, Dave? He's too human.

Yeah. You're portraying him. Which is why people are drawn to it. they're like, oh, this is, this is actually seems real. Right. This is good. He seemed like he's one of us. But, I mean, I read this verse.

That's why I read it last time. I think it's really important because, yes, he's the son of God and yes, you know, we shouldn't be flippant about that. And there's a time to have a sense of humor because we're created in the image of God. So I know he has a sense of humor. I mean, I've made this joke many times about when you look at, our bodies and the way we are and our body, soul, and spirit united, we have a sense of humor. Right.

And to deny that, that God is not that way would just be to me an outright impossibility. We're made in the image of God. Yeah, interesting little statement. Hang on, Dad, let's take a breath. When the Apostle Paul addressed to Corinthians, he said, the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. But to us who are being saved, it's a power of God. Then it went on to say this.

Jews demand miraculous signs, and Greeks demand wisdom. So somewhere in there, you know, what? You didn't perform enough miracles. Jesus did one miracle after the other. I'm thinking if I had been there, I'd have been kind of like Nicodemus. I'm like, you can't do that unless you were, you were. our God. And then the apostles right after that took up the same mantle when they were those first three years they were in Jerusalem. That's right. Yeah. Exactly. But he said they still demand more.

This thing about miracles, once you get hooked on them, if that's your only way, if you never cross over to where they lead you to faith, show us another one. Got to get another one. So where, so how do we go through the verses, how do we pick out the high points between in chapter nine? Well, I thought, well, I think we need to look at some of the illustrations. I mean, he's starts out because he says in verse six not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Yeah, and even before that, I mean, the point is like, all right, the mere fact that most of Israel has rejected this doesn't mean God's word has failed. So he's still kept all his promises, the covenants, the prophecies, they've come to pass. Right. So that,

and he's just to explain how they have. So the first one he does is he uses Abraham and he uses Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael is not mentioned, but that's, in other words, the first thing is why, why, why Isaac, why not Ishma? Would you remember who said that first? Abraham. If only Ishmael could live in. Where was the prophecy that said, there's two nations inside the womb?

Well, that's Jacob and he saw. That's going to be the next one. But speak to that, Gary. So why did the child a promise, why was that so important to understand that it, that had to be that way. It wasn't because of they made, you know, Ishmael by another means. Yeah. So, I mean, I mean, just follow.

So in six, he's saying, God has been faithful to what he promised you, Israel. You just misunderstood it. Then in seven, he goes through and he makes the point, all right, the prophecy was not the physical lineage of Abraham, that it was for the children. Physical Israel is not necessarily the heirs of Abraham.

Right. The one who shares the faith of Abraham, or his recipient. Which is why he's the father of us all. That's right. And he covered that in, where was chapter four or five. And we're not from Israel.

Yeah. So I mean, this is, because a lot, when I was in Israel, the guy saying, well, yeah, you're saying this because you're not from here. I was like, I know. But if I go your way, I'm just out. He's like, yeah, he was kind of smiling.

Like, sorry. Sorry. I was like, stinks to be you. That's what we're. going with? I thought we were friends. He's like, we are friends. But you're getting something and I'm getting nothing. I guess you can convert over. That's what he was saying. I mean, we laughed about it, which I thought was cool and had conversations, but he was serious. Yeah. Oh, I know he was serious, fail. And I think he liked me because I was one of the few people that I was so offended that I quit

talking to him. I just thought, well, you've missed this a country mile. And they look, and he laughed when I said that. But we were talking about serious things because I was like, I want everybody in. And he's like, but everybody's not going to be in. And it turned into who's on first, what's on second. I was like, yeah. And I would read verses like I just read. But he saved everybody. He's like, but everybody doesn't want to be saved. I said, I know, but he worked in your country to bring about Jesus so he could save everybody. He's like, but everybody's not going to be safe. That was literally, that went on for 10 days.

That's how it was. And that's why when you read this, you're like, how do I explain this? And he's using these illustrations. Well, I think that's why I brought up the repetition of the gospel, him saying it over and over and over, because most people were saying, you're not going to read it if you quit at Malachi. That's right. They're not carrying it around the rest of it. That's right.

He just stops in Malachi. Yep. So where he corrects him is he says, all right, God's promise didn't fail. Then he identifies one of those promises. It's through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. Well, if you just take that statement, there's two things going on there, and I think this is what he's correcting through the rest of the chapter. The first thing that's going on is Abraham's offspring are going to be reckoned.

that's number one. And number two is, I'm going to use Isaac to do that. So then through the rest of the chapter, he's addressing both those points. Who is Abraham's offspring? And then he's clarifying, y'all took the election, which was, I'm going to use Isaac to do that. I'm showing you that that's what was promised. And the perfect illustration from that is back when we taught John, you go back to John 8, and you see that whole conversation Jesus had with those Jewish people who said they believed in him,

And until he started talking about Abraham, they were like, well, we're slaves of anyone. What do you do? Why are you saying that about us? And then he ends up by saying before Abraham was born, I am, meaning this whole time it was about the promise. You didn't believe him or you don't believe me. They were claiming Abraham as their father, meaning that their physical heritage. But what they didn't understand was he was your father because he was faithful.

I mean, that's what they should have. But I think you missed the faith part. They missed the faith. Well, because the faith part's hard. When you think about what Abraham did, he said, go to a place you've never been before. But just think, somebody taps you on the shoulder and says, look, I got a revelation from God. You need to move. I want you to move.

Take your whole family. Yeah, a whole family. And I want you to go to the North Pole. No, even worse. Look, Phil, I know you. You're like, I'm out. I want you to go to a place that I'll tell you when you get there is where you need to be. Head noise.

How about that? Yeah, head no way. And then look, and then I'm going to, you're going to have a baby along the way. You're looking around like, this is before the blue pills. You know. That's why the woman is livin. And then, so, lo and behold, the baby does. So then you're like, well, if he can pull this off, maybe.

Now, granted, I'm sure that gave him a spark, just enjoying the process. And, all right, things are. here but then to say okay sacrificing well I mean that you'd have to say this guy is crazy I mean you would think what are you talking about I thought all nation is going to be blessed through his seed line I mean all of a sudden this faith becomes a lot harder than it seemed if you were in that moment well that's true what I love let's take my break that's what I love about the story of Abraham is because he shows his his flaws like any of us you know that he got a little impatient because he was like, well, I know what God said.

He believed it. But then when Sarah came and said, you know what? You know what I think God really meant for you to take my maid servant and marry her and have a son through? Because it's still coming from your body. I could hear the whole discussion. He did say from your body, right?

I mean, I know she gets a lot of flack for having that conversation. But at this point, once these miracles start happening, right, I'd pretty much be open to anything. You know, I really would. Like, man, try her. You know what I'm saying? The rules and laws have come down, which is my point about this, you can't live under law. I mean, God is, he's supernaturally above any kind of law-keeping system that you think you were going to accomplish something by keeping all the rules that you can't keep anyway.

Well, but the point is, Paul's point, by bringing this up, is that by Jewish law, I mean, the blessing, Ishmael was the first son. That's what was so ironic. And he's got to be 13 years old now. So, I mean, 13 years have gone by. And then guys said, oh, by the way, one last thing before I leave. Next year, that child of promise we talked about, you and Sarah are going to have him. Yeah. And they were like, what?

I mean, and he said, if only issue milk can live another. In other words, I already got a son. Why do we need to do it? Because you have to believe in me, not in your ability to do it yourself. I mean, I've always thought that. See, I think that's why they led to that point. because my point is they they if you're looking at it from there forget what you read in the story if you're looking at it from their perspective they're like wait a minute he's changing the laws

of nature here that's right and so well if you're thinking like that well he also wrote this law the law that we have to keep evidently he can change that too i mean he because he's changing the natural law or cancel it or or cancel it or that's why i'm saying all of a sudden you start thinking the old cancellation of the written code in the Colossians 2. That's a heavy one because to a Jew they're doing what.

It'll turn in a mayhem. You've got to have the rules. We've got to know what to do. But my overall point is that's what led them to an open mind to thinking outside of what they were raised in. Because they're seeing these things happen

and they're like, well, wait a minute. God is becoming his characteristics all powerful, all knowing. It's coming out like visibly so let's be honest here and try to come up with a figure so from the from the time these events were going down the timeline's pretty pretty pretty good it's you know mid 50s what we're reading it's mid 50s 30 years after jesus or so 25 whatever you look at that so oz to the jewish our Jewish brothers that we love, the Jews as a people that we love, how do we get this, how do we get

this clarify these issues? Because percentage wise, how many do you think have embraced Jesus, him becoming flesh, dying for all the use. He knows the figure, but I mean, what do you think? I like your question. How do you have conversations? I mean, I guess you do what we're doing. He wrote it down. Well, you do what you did. You went to Israel and you had a conversation with God. Many. Multiple.

Multiple. But if he blackballed the New Testament, that would make it. You look at what Paul's doing here. I mean, like, through the Holy Spirit, he's showing them like, you've misunderstood my promises to Israel. Yes, it's through Isaac that your off spring is going to be reckoned. There's two things there. One, Abraham's going to be. Abraham's offspring will be reckoned or ransomed, rescued.

Right. And two, I'm going to use Isaac to do that. And he shows them, you've misunderstood it. You, number one, you thought, in that promise, you thought physical Israel was Abraham's offspring. Number one, I'm going to show you your wrong on that. Correct. And then number two, and then I'm going to show you, my purpose was always in elevating

you that I'm going to use Isaac to do that. That's why you stood in this privileged position, because you were going to be, bring salvation to the world. But then he was confusing, I think, to people is because then he uses Jacob and Esau. Who are Isaac's sons. Which were the two nations. The illustration represented the two nations. Right.

Right. So people go off the rails because they're like, well, why would he, why would he even create them if he's not going to bless, if they're not going to follow him? And then you bring up Pharaoh and he's like, well. Before you leave Jacob and Isso, again, Esau was born. first, even though they were twins. And so again, by law, by what they've all been told, he would have to be the one to receive the blessing. But God said, nope, not going to do that. Jacob's going to get the blessing. And his point was, there's two babies in a womb. It wasn't up to

them to decide. God decided. And this comes back to his sovereignty again and again and again. And that's where the questions come in. I was only bringing up the question because of like, you have these three illustrations or their most. Yeah, Moses and Pharaoh is a big one when we need to talk about. Well, because I'm like, but they're confusing because everything that happened with Abraham was positive. Well, then it seems like it's not as positive with the two, uh, Jaguizal. And then we have Pharaoh. Where's something positive about that from their mindset? Because they're like, it says he, you know, he hardened his heart to use him in a positive way.

Well, then that gets confusing to people. Yeah, it is hard for people to grasp that. And I think, like, so he addresses all those points in Roman. Romans 9. So like the, well, they got elevated, Jacob got elevated and Esau didn't. I mean, God then addresses that in Romans 9. Hey, we got a lump of clay. Some of it I'm going to pull out, and it's going to be for a special purpose. And some of it's just going to be for common use. That don't mean I don't love them. Yeah. That's right. You've misunderstood what it meant to be elect or to be chosen. Let me give you an example. Pharaoh, I chose him.

I raised him up. Why? So that my glory might be. displayed. In Pharaoh, the election, it doesn't even, there's no fooling around that it was beneficial. Like God, God used Pharaoh. He elected him. I raised you up for this purpose. And what he's trying to get him to see is Israel, I did the same with you. I raised you up for the purpose because you were going to be the Isaac through whom Abraham's offspring were going to be reckoned. Yeah. That's it. He says the same thing later with Nebuchadnezzar. He says the same thing. And this is a, this is a Gentile, terrible person that brought all those Israelites to Babylon. He said, I raised you up so that a remnant would understand.

And then through Daniel and everything. So he's done it over and over. Hang on, Jay. Let's take our last break. One of the good things you did in your studies, you had all those verses down where it says, and somebody can Google search it, where it says Pharaoh's heart was hardened. But it was only after a few times where it said his heart was already hard. And God just strengthened that hardness, which is hard for us to wrap our heads around.

Well, why is God doing that? What's the purpose? But to me, in my simple brain, it makes sense because I'm like, here you have these plagues. You know, how long does it take for you to get it that, oh, there's a God. You're not him. About 10? Well, but I think God strengthened his hard heart to allow all that. happen because realistically you after a couple i mean tell you tell you one thing right now if i saw

one the first miracle i'm like okay this guy's got an army of insects and skills that i'm not gonna win here because that's what always intrigued me about that night with the frogs because i'm i'm drawn to frogs because they're so delicious and i thought boy you know for a second this would be awesome I mean, but then when you look at it practically, you're like, this is a miraculous defy of nature. And you got frogs everywhere. And remember when they came to him and asked him, he had this conversation with God about when he would get relief. And it was a sermon I heard Jeff Walling preach on the title of it was because then Pharaoh's response was, one more night with the frogs.

I mean, he said, all. God said, I'll give you relief. And he's like, well, tomorrow we'll do this. And so indirectly, he's saying, one more night of this misery. And I always thought, why in the world would you do that if God was offering you relief? And that once I read it in Romans 9 here, and I get the bigger picture for what's going to happen for all people to be saved. I'm like, I think God strengthened his hard heart to allow all that to happen, to realize the wrath that happens when you're separated from God

and to appreciate more of the gif that happened through history that brought Jesus. And just practically, fast forward 40 years from that point when he's doing that with Pharaoh, Israel finally gets out of the desert. They go to start conquest of the land. Their first city is Jericho. And march around, they send the spies in, and they go to Rahab. Rahab, she's like, I've already heard what God did for y'all in Egypt. Like the inhabitants of the land that they, 40 years later, went and conquested,

like they were already aware of the mighty acts and glory of God 40 years prior that occurred in Egypt. So it's like even in that, he's preparing the way for Israel to be a nation, for the law to come, the prophets to come, and ultimately the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to save you. And she said, she said, your God is my God. I mean, she made a statement of faith and then put her life on the line to, defender. It's so interesting though. I think we missed these things because I had a buddy of mine called me and he's like, man, this preacher son, he preached about rehab. And he's like, when he got to hurt telling the lie, he's just like, now look, that was not from God. And I was like, I don't know

if I agree with that. I was like, because he knows the heart. And he's like, not according to this guy. He was like, now even though God made it work, that's not an excused a lie. And I was like, this preacher's missed it. He missed him. Because I was getting angry, you know, by hearing it, because he was trying to justify, which I was telling my buddy. I said, it sounds like to me, he's got some legalism problems. He does. And he's trying to justify keeping the law technically without God looking at the heart. No, what, what Rehab did. I said, she's in the Hall of Faith. And he's going to stop his sermon and say, don't justify this lie. It was not from God. I was like, he's missed the point. I would even take a step

further and say that that lie, that is what showed her faith was real. Because she was, look, she's on the line. If the king finds out she lies, she's dead. I mean, that was a death sentence for her to tell that lie. And even, all right, so back it up. Okay, so if Rehab's lie, if that's how you take it, what about the spies lie? Because they didn't come in and say, hey, we're Israelites. They were lying in their appearance. And that's what being a spy is. And God sent them in to do that. That's right.

But you know, Phil said in between the break while ago, about how many letters that we get about people saying that we're crazy for saying that we're under grace, not any law. Right. And so I think that's what the problem is. People just have difficulty not being under law. We're under the law of faith. There's a difference between the law of merit of what you can earn this,

but it is a law of faith. Trust God. And that's what- It's a change of legal regime to get into a lawyer. Which is the whole point he did in Chapter 6. He was saying, we have traded out being the slave to sin and now we're a slave to righteousness. Which is why I brought up why you do something matters.

because you go back to Luke 15 where you had the two sons well this guy's like give me my inheritance he goes out there acts like an idiot everybody identifies with him well what about the guy back home well his law keeping

was awesome he stayed out of trouble but he wasn't viewed favorably why because why he was keeping the law was not right yeah the law of the law of work says you earn you get what you earn

the law of faith says love God love each other that's the code but he was keeping himself from doing wrong things so that he would be elevated as well look at the picture

look who I am look at the picture of the difference in Matthew 19 rich young ruler versus Luke 19 and Zachias because the rich young ruler had it going on and all this I was like whoa this guy but what happened he walks away sad because he was a man of great well

Zakias, little tax collector that everybody hated, he climbs up a tree just to get a better look. Jesus looks up and says, I'm coming to your house today. And he did. And you know what Zakiya said? I'll give four times back what I've stolen from people. That's what a heart does when it responds the right way. And the external law, you know, think about the Jewish law or whatever, law that looks at what you're doing externally, is always more limited than judging someone on their intentions. That's the whole point of the sermon on the mount.

I didn't come to destroy the law. I've come to fulfill it. What I'm demanding is going to be way, which is harder, don't murder or don't even hate somebody in your heart, which is harder. Don't commit adultery or don't even look at a woman lustful. It's far more demanding. Great point.

In fact, here's what he said in chapter 10, verse 4, which we'll get to, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. I mean, it all flowed into him, which is the whole point that we've been saying. McGuigan made a good point, Jason, in this text of chapter 9 that hadn't thought about before, because Paul used a lot of illustrations, but he used Elijah when Elijah, you know, felt so defeated

because, I mean, God had just done this amazing miracle. And Ahab and Jezebel, they just, well, whatever, you're still going to die. And so he just went outside out and said, God, there's nobody left. You might as well take me on it. He told him, he said, there's 7,000 that you don't even know about. Romans 11. Exactly. So I love that idea in there that that, that's,

That's, you know, there was a great point that we don't know what God knows, which is part of the whole point. That's why God looks at the heart. That's why he knows. But I mean, to me, that kind of helps me when my former question about, can you get it down to numbers? How many of these Jews have, how would you really know that? You wouldn't, but God does.

Yeah. I want to tell you this, if you're confused about all this, I mean, I think you always got to go back to the overall characteristics of God in that he was faithful. in showing his love for everybody. Correct. And when you read something like Romans 828, when you go back and say that we know that in all things,

all things is all things, God works for the good of those who love him. You don't have to know every single detail about how he pulled it off and it can be confusing. But if you're like, I love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, and you know and trust that he's going to work, for your good.

Correct. What do you have to worry about? That's exactly right. I agree. That's a pretty way to end it. Do you know how we judge a podcast, Gary, whether we felt like they went good or not? How's that? How fast it went by?

That went by fast. I don't know whether you have enough dollars in the stash, whoever's the ramrod of this outfit. But somehow another, we need to bring old Oz on. I don't know what he charges. I'm just saying. Well, when we hit the wall, we'll bring Oz in to do that. I've got a head on him. He said today.

he'll work for hamburgers if you'll cook him. I got a feeling they're going to say, how about a hamburger in a t-shirt? At least we won't get after you with a chainsaw anymore. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell

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