Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 321 | Phil's Laundry Skills, Zach's Wedding Fail, and Struggles with Perfectionism and Insecurity

Episode Date: August 2, 2021

Phil, Jase, and Al are joined by Zach’s wife, Jill Dasher, who shares the details of her new book, "Shallow: Drowning in the Shallow End of People's Approval." Jill reminisces about meeting Zach in a laundromat, and Jase has some surprising admissions about laundry. Phil and Jill discuss raising kids in a device-centric world and how you can teach your children to do right. Jill confesses her struggles with perfectionism and how her insecurities almost ruined her marriage. Jase and Jill talk about the pitfalls of social media and why we always see ourselves in the worst light. And Al reveals Zach's hilarious fail at his own wedding. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we have upgraded on the unashamed podcast at so many levels. So since I was in North Carolina, and I wanted Jill to come on our podcast. So this is Jill, who's Zach's wife. And we've had, we've had, Misty's been on the podcast, Lisa's been on the podcast, Lisa's been on the podcast, mom's been on the podcast. So we've had all the spouses except for you. Those are tough, tough juice to follow.

This is your debut, Jill. And it's a major upgrade, both in looks as well as brain power. So, so welcome to Anna Shane. Thank you. It's really great to have you. And one of the things I wanted to, there's a lot I want to ask you about before we get to your book, because Jill's written a great book. And so we're excited to talk about today.

But I want to talk about Zach because, you know, obviously our audience knows him. He's kind of my, first he was my guest host, and now he kind of comes on a lot in the fourth chair. And we kind of see him as our kind of intellectual of the four of us because, you know, he uses a lot of big words. I think he's just trying to impress us and make us look dumb. So tell us about a little bit about how y'all met and that kind of stuff because, you know, we've kind of done that with all the other wives, talked about kind of how we initially were drawn together. Well, it's funny because Zach, I always say, like, Zach was the first, like, guy who loved Jesus that I met that I was, like, actually really attracted to. And I remember, like, I met him and he, like, he invited us to church and all. And, you know, at the beginning, you're trying to figure out, okay, do they really love Jesus? Are they just, you know, kind of pretending and all that? And so I would watch him. And so our first dates were literally in the laundromat. And he, you know, was taking this class on Romans. And he was literally teaching me the book of Romans. And so the whole time, I was just thinking, okay, this dude really loves Jesus. And he's really cute. And so that was like

our initial. I was like, I'm going to snag him up. Like, this is it. This is what I've prayed for forever. And so. He really loves Jesus and he's really cute. You got to have that right combination, Jays. You've got to get the right combo in there to be able to do this. It's very important. Very important. And so that's kind of how we started dating was our dates were at the laundromat. And so we got married super younger. I just turned 20 when we got married, which, you know, I always think I would never go back and do it differently, but getting married so young, there was so much that I had to learn. Well, I'm trying to figure out. So he calls you up and he says, hey, you want to go out? I'm going to the laundromat and wash them clothes. So this is actually a funny story. So the very first date,

So every Sunday night, where we went to college, there was this one place called downtown. And it's where all the students went and we would worship and we would have communion together. And it was kind of like the social setting. And so on Sunday nights. And so this particular Sunday night, I went there with all my friends and sitting around talking afterwards. Well, his roommate, actually his sweetmate comes up to me. And he says, hey, would you like to go out sometime? And I said, sure, give me a call.

Because I'm, you know, I'm available. I'm just checking out seeing, you know, what's out there. Well, about 15 minutes later, Zach comes up to me. And he's like, hey, would you like to go out sometime? I said, sure, give me a call. So they get back to their dorm room and it's the whole, hey, guess who I got a date with? And he's like, well, guess who I got a date with? And then they realized it's both with me.

And so I forget how they decided that Zach was going to be the one that got to call me first. Oh, really? So they made a call on their own. Yeah, like they had. it out. They had some sort of, I don't know. So where did the, I mean, I think once, once he said, come meet me at the laundromat and, you know, what does he say? One of these days you may get fortunate to do this and watch my dirty clothes. I'm still trying to figure out why the laundry mat. I've never, I've never been to a

laundromat. Well, me neither. And I certainly have never been there checking out the chicks. No. Well, let's go down and see these good looking women. where are they're the laundromat. I'm still not clear on why most of your 51st dates were at a laundromat and you continued this charade. He was really good at folding clothes.

Look, he was really good at folding clothes. I'm not kidding. Like, he was better at folding clothes than me. So that's important. It's important. So there's no explanation on why you said yes to the laundromat or is that just foggy? Well, the first date was not to a laundromat.

That just happened to be where we would meet and, like, kind of decided if we wanted to take that first date. Oh, I see. That was sort of, you know. It's kind of a test, the toe in the water. And you got to understand, Zach is one of the cheapest people I've ever known. So probably Zach didn't only spend any money except what he was doing to wash his own clothes. So I would bet that was some factor somewhere in the back of it. It's 100% because our actual first date was to a,

Hank Williams Jr. Concert, except we didn't get to actually go into the concert. We sat on the outside because it was an outdoor. And so he went and paid the money for the tickets to go into the concert. So we just sat on the outskirts. Yeah. Y'all have kind of left me because it's 75, looking back, I never thought a woman would consider it a worthy skill set if you fold it clothes well.

Yeah. You know, who says, that's my man because he can fold clothes. Yeah, I'm Reeve. Boy, them, them, they don't, they don't, they don't, they don't ask for a whole lot. Can you fold clothes? Yeah, okay. And he loved Jesus. He loved Jesus.

He was cute. He loved Jesus. He was cute. But he's also, we're going to the Hank Williams Jr. Was he there to disciple some, some wayward country music fans? Because old Hank, most of Hank songs are about drinking and, uh. That is true. But he did have a.

Country Boy Can Survive. And guess what? That was my mantra song for about at least five years of my life. I just went around thinking, a country boy can survive. By the way, he's a huge metal detector. And so we actually, a couple of people have told me that we may get together and do some metal detecting. So I'll keep you posted on that. Yeah.

Oh, Bo Seafus. If he comes down there, if y'all do it nearby, I want to meet him. I've always been a fan of his. I never had been a huge country fan, but I loved Hank Williams Jr. For some reason or another, it was my high school year. And I loved a country boy who survived.

I was kind of like you, J's. It was like my anthem, you know, for growing up. Well, the word I got was one of his people met one of my people, and they were talking about metal detecting. And so one of his person went to him and said, hey, they introduced me as a possibility. And it was kind of like the Roman, decision making, he's looking, everybody's anticipating, is he going to give a thumbs up or a

thumbs down? And I got the thumbs up. Yeah. So we actually may do that. Yeah. Well, he's an Well, maybe you could get me some concert tickets. Yeah. And I could actually- I'll tell you what. I will put that somewhere on the list if we pull this off. I'm sure it'll be high. So how many years you've been married to that? 20 years. We celebrated our 20-year wedding anniversary on June 23rd. Is he still falling clothes, 20 years in? Yes. Really?

Yes. Yes. He folds. He irons. I mean, this is kind of embarrassing because I know, I mean, I do the laundry, but he's just better at it. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm getting more material here.

And I, kudos for whoever had Jill and not Zach, because I'm sure he would be interrupting her in his mind every five seconds. Well, he didn't learn how to fold clothes from his uncle, that's for sure. That is true. I'm not sure where he picked it. Phil, but you know who he learned it from. Phil, you should know who he learned it from. Janice Ellen. Yeah, Janice Ellen.

Talk about perfectionist. Dad, have you ever folded a garment? Do you ever remember at any point in your life where you folded up any kind of garment? I do not think I've ever done that. I've never done that. The world is beginning to become a lot larger for them and some of the skill sets I need to follow. Folding clothes. look you this is confessions of a of a country boy but i actually tried it a couple years ago did you

well missy kept saying why do you just because i'll go wash my clothes but i just leave them in a pile they go back to that right there i'll go wash my clothes what's she doing there washing hers yeah well we we have a we have an agreement well you were raised where miss k did all the washing Well, I buried. I thought that was a terrible idea. I'm like, if I, if, because I don't have many clothes and I'm like, if I want them clean, that's on me. So I'll go wash the clothes. I figured that out.

But I don't fold them. I just pile them up. And she's, but she'll come on and say, why, why do you keep putting your clothes in a pile? And I say, because I know where they're at. And when I need something, I'll go grab out of the pile until the pile is gone. And then it's time to wash again. Yeah, that's kind of my method, too. She said, well, why don't you fold them?

I said, because I don't care if people say, oh, those clothes are wrinkled. That doesn't bother me at all. These days, it's a folding clothes that have loomed larger because every time we come in, we're muddy and we're wet and we're sweaty. This time of year, it's 100 degrees in the day. We'll go out there early, then we'll go back there real late, but in mid, day we're actually moving around a little bit these days so when you start fighting beavers and breaking beaver dams yeah planting duck food and a mud hole and the clothes don't care the clothes don't

care they don't care you end up i go out here's my routine i walk up get out of my vehicle come out of my shoes they stay outside they'll dry out in the sun i take the socks hang them on a limb yeah take my t-shirt off only t-shirts hanging on a limb now i'm down to just you're just my pair of pants. I go back in the back, take them off, throw them in front of the washing machine, throw my underwear with them, wrench off a little bit, start all over again. Yeah.

Get muddy the next day, sweating the next day, throw them on front of the washing machine, and keep moving. You've managed to make this subject uncomfortable for me, Phil. I walk by and I looked down in front of the washing machine. They've been washed and dried, and they're in my drawer. So she stays ahead of me. I do that. I don't mind doing that.

It takes literally 60 seconds. Now, be honest, Jace. You're scared not to do that. This is going to be going to need to cut some things out of this day. It's off the rails now. So, so, so, so dad, you're saying your audience, your daily audience does not care what your clothes look like, right? Nobody's really. Well, the audience is saying, yeah, I bet old Jace, you know.

I don't know why that's a big deal. I don't. There's not but two of us there, and I come in, you know. But Phil, look, you've got a talent of wearing clothes that are clean that look dirty. Well, these were wet. I just come out of the woods to drive up here. Okay. Well, but still, that shirt.

But these pants, they were muddy, but the mud is dried on them since I've been sitting here for an hour and a half, pontificating. So now. Okay. But these here, you were. wouldn't want to, you know, you wouldn't want to sit on chairs with them. See all, see all. Oh, I do see. Yeah, you're dirty. I didn't know you. I'm dirty. Well, okay. Well, okay. Look, look, the moral of the story is this, okay? Help us, Jill. If anything ever happens to, to Missy or Kay, and God forbid, that, that should, we don't want that to happen. But if it does, then just start going to the

laundromat. And you may, you may, you may find somebody, you know. Do they still have laundry mats? I think I would hire somebody to if Miss K was gone, somebody will be hired to wash the clothes. Phil, why don't you just try it? I'm telling you, it's one minute of your life. It's not that big a deal. I actually enjoy it. You can't ruin anything, Dad, because your stuff looks like it's already run.

Oh, yeah, I don't do all that. You know, Missy came in there when I first did it. She was like, and he put all the colors. I was like, I'm no worried about all that. Yeah. I just throw it all in there. And I express wash it and then I dry it all. No, I do have a few shirts that changed colors a little bit,

but I thought that gave it some personality. Yeah. So. But in the summertime in Louisiana, I mean, there's a lot to be said about whatever you do, just wear white on your body. Just wear white because it is a lot cooler than any other color, a little darker or black, never right there on a black t-shirt. No, that one house got on.

That's right there, you'll be dead in the hour. Yeah, but if you're a woman wearing a white t-shirt, it doesn't go so good in Louisiana. See, that's the difference. Well, there you go. Okay. You get into another issue. So let's take a break. So I was just just, Gordon just told this story.

I thought it's funny in relationship to what we're talking about. Because it does, I guess clothes do matter in some settings. He had him a little part-time job. And he was working up here in this area. And so he comes in and whoever's over him in this part of, time job, said, Gordon, what's the deal with that shirt? Do you not have an iron or is your dryer not working? Because I guess his shirt was all wrinkled. And so I said, well, what'd you do? Did you come home and get stuff lined out and do it? He said, no, I quit. So I guess Gordon would rather not

work, have the job than have to. He should have got Zach to iron it for him. That's what I'm saying. I mean, he had a son that was good at. Exactly. So what's the book about she, what's the book about that she wrote. You asking me? Yeah. Are you, all right, shallow? He's hijacking the, the, uh, me, so this book is actually about how messed up I am.

If you really want to know the truth. Um, it really talks about my struggle with perfectionism. You know, my whole life, I sort of lived under this veil of, you know, you need to look like this. You need to act like this. A Christian girl talks like this and all of these things, but I would hide all the things about myself that weren't good and weren't likable. And so the goal was always to make sure I was, you know, approved by whoever I was around.

And the truth is, if you live your life that way, it is absolutely miserable. And number one, you're constantly changing who you are because you're not looking to God. You're looking to, okay, what is everybody else around me saying about me? And I need to shift who that is to make sure they're happy. And it's really a suffocating way of living. So it's your target group is not necessarily. necessarily which one is the target group, male or female or both? Well, you know, instinctively, I go to say women.

And when I started writing the book, you know, my target group was women. But I have really been surprised. I was just on a conversation with a lady that called me the other day talking about the book. And she said, Jill, my husband's actually been reading a lot of this book and we're having these discussions about our marriage that we've never had before. And it really touched me because I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, who I was writing it too, but the whole time I was like, God, you just put it in the people's

hands that you want it in. And so really, I think it's for anybody that struggles with living and hiding. You don't have to share the same struggles I do. Like I talk about jealousy in this book. I talk about my image and worrying about what I look like. I talk about my marriage struggles. You know, there's so many different things we talk about in here, but those don't have to be the same. It's just the same idea of if you feel like you have to live in hiding to be approved. by other people, then this book is for you, hopefully. I can tell you this, book or no book, if people want to know, I've just noticed, Jace, you've noticed this too, Zach and Jill have the most well-behaved children on the planet.

Oh, yeah, they're awesome. They are solid. So whatever you and Zach did, you did it well, little sister. Oh, that's, Phil, I'm going to, like, copy that and just listen to it every night. to encourage me. We would go to bed. Thank you. That's really, really sweet.

Man, it's a daily. They were in there to acknowledge, because I've looked at your children, they are outstanding. I'll agree with that. I was going to ask you how much do you think, and we haven't really talked about this, but how much do you think the social media age

and people trying to portray themselves in a shallow way? I mean, I think a lot of what you just said, my mind immediately, to how we portray ourselves as a culture on social media. So how much do you think that plays in? So about the, what kind of system do you have as far as your children and little, the little black boxes?

The little black boxes. Let her answer. You're not on the social media, but she probably knows what I'm talking about. But it's the same point. Yeah. I'll address, I'll address both of those. So, yeah, social media is huge. and I talk about that in the book.

But the truth is, you know, I feel like this is this habit of lying. Well, not, I feel like, I know. Goes back to Genesis chapter 3. The first time man sinned in the garden, their instinct was to go and hide and cover up with fig leaves. So they started doing it thousands of years ago. We're just doing the same thing today with beautiful images, our gorgeous kitchens, our perfect marriage,

whatever it is through social media. I don't think it's a new concept by any man. but it's something where it's changing with the times and we're just perfecting it. And so I feel like one of the things, and I talk about this in the book, you know, we look at social media, we see all these perfect lives. And yes, there's some of us that are like, okay, nobody's life is like that. But then there's another sector of people that I think almost prefer the fake life to seeing people's real struggles because it keeps them from having to look at themselves. Like some of the scariest thing, one of the scariest things to think about is to look

at our self and our own depravity and our own sin. And that's, and we'll do anything to not have to do that or I did for years. Oh, I agree. And we talked about this recently on a podcast. We were talking about how, and it's not just girls, but I seem to know those girls more the boys, it's just this constant either looking at their camera, showing them and they're making, and then the selfies, and then the, I noticed like when I was down at the beach, there's all these pictures of these girls doing these poses and some other girls taking her picture. And I just thought it's just constantly about me and about that surface of what you see, which is kind of what you talk about in the book. I want to read this quote and have you comment on it. You said in the book,

when you spend your focus and energy polishing the surface of your life, you may find it easy to convince yourself that all is well. I assume that if the surface look good, then it must be good, but an outside in perspective is rarely as accurate as a view from the inside out. So talk a little bit about that, about why it's important to project really the struggle and then how that helps you and other people. So that quote comes from my life, years of making sure everything outwardly look good. you know, that I was pretty, that I was, you know, whatever I felt like I was supposed to be. And I could perfect that. I could work on that.

But I never looked at the inner things of who I really was. The fears that I really had, the doubts, the questions in my faith I really had, the struggles, the jealousies, the comparisons, you know, all of those things. I would not let myself look at those things. It was much easier to focus on either what everybody else was doing wrong, like what's wrong with her. or them or that, or to focus on making myself physically look better than to look at the inside stuff. But what's interesting is the stuff that's inside, the real deep stuff, once you let yourself start seeing those things about yourself and you're submitting that to a guide, that's where you're going to start finding freedom. I wish I would have learned that a long time ago.

So how did it trickle down, how did it trickle down, that you have the well-behaved children? What's the secret in your opinion? Well, okay. I always say the verdict's still out. You know, I'm still raising my kids. We are not perfect parents, man. We've got, but I will tell you, Phil, and this is honest truth, my children are the reason I wrote this book.

And the reason I did is because what of all my, the kids, of all of our children's flaws, the one thing I want them to always know is that you don't have to hide from us. You don't have to pretend like the perfect Christian daughter or son. You don't have to pretend that you don't struggle with things. Like I have three boys. I know they're going to struggle with lust. For me to put my head under a bag and say, oh, not my kids and not just my son's, my daughter,

or to say, no, I want my kids to know. Look, if your mom can write a book about like all the things that are messed up about her and admit those things and confess those things, then maybe my kids will feel comfortable confessing those things to me, but more importantly, to God. Like, I want them to be children of confession. I want our family to be a family of confession. Do you monitor the intake that the world offers your children through the cell phone?

Do you monitor that closely? Yes, we do monitor that. You know, we have times where their phones shut off. You know, we don't do the whole of phones in the bedroom and all of that. And we do all of those things. but my prayer is God monitor their heart because we could do all of the things to like make sure they, you know, can't look at pornography or whatever, which they could still find a way around it. But if we're not speaking truth to their heart, if the Holy Spirit's not speaking to their heart,

it really doesn't matter what we do. So, and let's take a break. So one of the things, Dad, I've observed, because I've been here the last, and I've been up several times. So I've kind of been, you know, the last few years since they've been in North Carolina. But I've noticed on this trip, you know you've got something good going on with your teenagers, because they have three teenagers now, you know, living under the same roof, is when a lot of other teenagers want to be there. And there's been a lot of teenagers there since, you know, in fact, last night, Zach was worried.

He's kind of like one of those moments like mom had that, do we have enough food? Yes. Because, I mean, they just kept coming and kept coming. But I noticed, and a lot of them were asking Zach questions, and the whole time he's cooking, you know, he's talking about, you know, to these teenagers about different spiritual things. And so I thought to myself, you know, they're not only, you know, living it and being authentic, but then there's a draw for other people to want to be a part of that. So, I mean, I just observed that and thought that's, really that's what you want.

I mean, you don't want your team always want to go be somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. You'd rather be where other teams want to come be where you are, especially, when you have a spiritual core, you know, which is practicing, practicing hospitality aisle pays rich dividends. You know what I'm saying? That's right. Yeah, in a lot of different ways. Yep. That's exactly right. And I think we all learned that as a family. Of course, Jill, was that, did you grow up that way too? I did. It's funny. We both brought hospitality to the table from our families. We were raised very similar in that people were in our homes, and that was a common thing.

we cooked and everything was done around food. And so that was a heritage that we both brought into our marriage that I honestly think is one of the things that has helped our marriage more than anything else is actually serving other people. Sometimes we become so focused on, you know, what I do to make my marriage perfect and everything is about the marriage and each other and how do I make him happy and how do I make her happy? Well, I think fulfillment comes most often when we're serving other people and we're a little bit outside of ourselves. So that's been a huge element in our marriage. Which is really neat when

you bring both those together. So you're opening the book about struggling in your marriage because of your own self-image. So what was kind of the turning point for you and Zach where, you know, really, really felt like we were growing the same direction. And even though you had issues, we're in this together. At what point over the 20 years was so? I can think of a very specific point in that. So, and I talk about this in the book, one of the things about getting married young is I was, I struggle with jealousy really big. And that, that sounds disgusting to admit if you're a woman, because no woman likes to say that. But I remember I would accuse him of things all the time, like stupid things. Like, you know, you were checking out that girl or they're just silly things.

I remember. And what he would always do, he would play the role of making me feel better about myself. And as long as he did his role and made me feel better about myself, then everything was fine. well this particular day we were driving in the car and I'll never forget bear was an infant in the back seat and I was accusing him of something some random thing and he looked at me and he said you know what if you're going to just keep accusing me of all of these things I might as well just be the guy that you're accusing me up like I'm sitting here trying to be a good husband and a faithful you know father but if this is who you think I am then why don't I just be that guy and I remember being like whoa like having this moment of like, wait a minute, like my insecurities are ruining my marriage. Like, I'm pushing him

into this. Like it was the first time probably ever in my life that I looked at myself. And I literally like went in my closet and I like bawled and just started praying to God like, God, you've got to help me. And that is the turning point in our marriage because that was the first time I looked inwardly instead of looking outwardly, which led me to later on confess to Zach my struggles, which I had never done before. And when I was the first time I looked inwardly, instead of looking outwardly, which when I confess that to him, it was like a weight off of his shoulders because he no longer was having to be the like determiner of my happiness, which no man can do. That's well said, little girl. You ought to write a book.

So she did. I think a lot of people, because a lot of people just listen to this, but I mean, Jill, you're extremely a beautiful woman and you always have since I've known you. but I just find it striking because when I first heard about this I was like do what I was so shocked because I just it made me realize that our minds are a powerful thing and if if you believe something even if it's a lie in your mind it's so powerful that it's hard for you to even function if you're not looking at it from God's viewpoint I guess is what I learned because a lot of people I think they're thinking, well, why would you be thinking this? What are you crazy? You know? Do you address that? Well, I addressed it in the sense of, you know, talking about developing the habit of pretending.

And I talk about, you know, because you got to think about it. If your goal was to make sure you're approved by everybody and everybody likes you, then you have to get really good at pretending, you know. And so, and so if you get really good at pretending, then nobody in your life really knows you. Yeah. Like your husband doesn't really know you. Your friends don't really know you. They just know the you that you put out there. So for me, like y'all just know the Jill that just put out fun loving and I am fun loving and, you know, you know, full of life. But inside, man, I was struggling with some really yuck stuff. Yeah, which we all do. I think that's why I think it's awesome that you're doing this, you know. Well, and I think, I mean, on this podcast for sure,

all of our listeners know because we've done over 300 podcasts now and our wives have all been on the podcast. We've all openly talked about struggles, you know, in marriage. And so I think by being open and also to those of you listening, be open about who you are. I mean, it's easy to look at your spouse and say, oh, here's all their problems. But you described it beautifully until you were able to look in and then see how that was affecting Zach. You couldn't find healing. Yeah. You couldn't find something better, you know, without that. inward to respect. Jill, by the way, by the way, laundromat or not,

you say, well, your, your decision to marry that nephew of mine, Zach was, you, you chose well, honey. He chose well, too. I did. He chose very well. He married up, never doubt it. So, so this is interesting, Dad, you probably didn't know this, because you don't do a lot of weddings, but 20 years ago, I was, I,

I co-officiated Zach and Jill's wedding. Really? And so, yeah, so her like childhood pastor was there and so he and I did it together. I hadn't done a lot with someone else. Fact that may be the only one I've ever done with another or maybe a couple more. And so

it was really neat and special to me because obviously we're so close to the dashers and it's the first time I'd gotten to meet Jill and her family. So I'm up, I'm doing the ceremony and so my part was the part where you do the rings and you know, exchange and all that. Kind of the you know, we get to the end of the, to the ceremony.

And so I say, Zach, do you have your ring? And Zach looked up at me, and it was a pause. And he just had this like deer in the headlights, look. You know, you got this whole room full of people. And he looks at him and said, I don't have it. I don't have it. And so at first I thought it was a joke because a lot of people like to joke at this moment, like they're making a joke.

But I could tell by the complete terror on his face that he did not have the ring. He left it in his pants back in the dressing room. No, no ring. So we literally had to pretend. So I don't know. I mean, are we legally married? Well, the question is that 20 years later. So I looked at Zach and me being a professional, even 20 years ago, I was just like, it's okay. So then because the people out there couldn't really see because we're up on the stage. So I was like, okay, put the ring on her fingers, Zach. So he's just like acting like he's putting a ring on her figure. Well, what was funny was is her dad was sitting there in this front row. And they had these these candle holders that had lit candles going down the aisles.

And when her dad realized Zach had forgotten the ring, he threw his head back like, oh, no. And he hit that thing. And it went back. And fire and wax went all over the people in the same. My pregnant cousin was behind him and literally caught it, like wax line. And she's like seven or eight months pregnant,

catching that candlelop. Well, it sounds like to me, Al calls this whole mirage that you struggle with by going with the narrative that we have a ring here. Yeah. That's true. At this point, what else do you do? You say, we don't have a rig because he left it in the laundromat in his pants. Maybe that's the first question you ought to ask somebody.

You got the ring with you. Yeah. And if he said, no, I think I'd have said, well, you can't be married then. That's right. And then everybody would have laughed. The wedding is off. And then you would have made a spiritual. analogy that we're all flawed and we're going to forget things and you're probably up to a rough

start here. The day you're getting married and you forget the ring? And then we cover it up. His cousin covers it up. Yeah. Yeah. We started with a lie. We started with a hiding. That's what was the bedrock of this book. That's the problem. It's all my fault. I'm glad you reminded me about that. It's not really my fault. Yeah, it's not your fault. See, I've given her room now to go back to her own self. Yeah. Let's take another break. So, but, but I do think it's indicative to show that Zach, the one thing that he's really good at now is forgetting things and not, he needs to, he has to have people around him to remind him of every single thing. And that started even back then, Peter's over here. How is that different from any other male I've ever met in my life?

well a lot I guess I don't know I mean there's different levels there's like a Zach level and then he's a 10 I'm right there too I'm right there beside

Jason he doesn't even know what year it is half the time I really don't I have trouble keeping up with how old I am the dates and so I mean I know my kids names and my wife's name and that's about

as far as I can go with confidence they don't Well, you're about to have a grandbaby. Well, yeah, and then there's that. Yeah, they don't call you a lone wolf McQuaid for no reason, Jay. Yeah. Well, and Jason, you were one step better off than dad because, you know, one of the grandkids or great-grandkids have come in to and dad said,

now who does this one? Who is this one belong to? Is this one of ours? Well, yeah. I would never make that comment in my life. But I also washed my own clothes. So I went through that for about two weeks, Phil. I went through the stage of I'm going to eat gumbo today.

And so I would go in there and make the rice. I mean, it never occurred to me, oh, this is like her job. Once I got married after about two weeks, I figured out that I'm not going to put jobs, meaningless jobs assigned to different people. Yeah. Which is pretty good thinking. So one of the things I wanted to ask Jill, we, Zach told us. the story yesterday about almost killing you with his golf prowess. And so we got his perspective.

And of course, you know, we were kind of throwing him under the bus. But I will say that he was terrified that he had actually, you know, really hurt you. Oh, yeah. So, so from your perspective, what was, tell us a little bit about that. I mean, because. Yeah, that's how, I cannot walk on a golf course to this day. Have not. I played tennis next to a golf course and someone teed off and I threw myself on the ground. Like that's how traumatic that day was. Like for me. So you've got like PTSD for golf. I have PTSD from golf. I literally, me and Paula Godwin. So if you're listening to this podcast and you, I don't know, you may know John Godwin, his wife Paula. You should know her. She's the most amazing woman. But we're playing in this golf tournament for charity, which we have no business to be in. I've never

swung a golf club, and apparently Zach hasn't either. But it was for a good cause, right? So we're doing it for a good cause. So me and Paula were sitting in a golf cart with two golf bags behind us off to the side, right? And just minding on business, having a great day. And next thing I know, Zach's Tee and off, and I promise you, I thought I was shot by a gun. I had no idea that it was a golf ball that hit me.

something like pal behind my ear. And all I remember, I remember two things, and I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but is the truth. I'm just being honest. I want to be shallow. But Paula was next to me, and I just hear her,

and you have to keep in mind, this is a charity golf tournament. I mean, we're all believers on the golf course, like here for a good cause. It's a church event. It's a church event. And then Paula, all I hear is, Jesus Christ.

I mean, it's just like. And you don't know if she's calling for the Lord, or she's... That's the last thing. I was here as my body starts just going vertical. I fall complete out, pass out. She's screaming while I had earrings in my ear. So when it hit, it ripped the earring out of my ear. So blood was trickling out of my ear. So when Zach, this is, now this part I've been told, I didn't witness this. When Zach came up and saw me passed out with blood running out of my ear, what I hear for my

brother-in-law is that he fell to his knees and like this dramatic, like, like, like, pause of like, like, I killed. Shankred engine with the... Like, I'm killing my wife. But what's funnier, and this I didn't even know, is to think of Al, because Al was telling me this story several weeks ago. I didn't know there was another man that fell out on the golf course just a few hours before. It was a two-per.

So there had already been an ambulance. So you have one ambulance, then you have this Christian woman screaming explicit, and then another ambulance, and Al's like, what in the world is going on? So we meant, we said on the other podcast, it was the end of the, worm burner because it was just too dangerous. I mean, if you got two ambulance calls, it's time pretty much hanging up. Did Zach tell you that I lost my hearing? Did that brought it? Yeah. Had to have surgery on my ear. I mean. I didn't realize. I remember the story about him, you know, he's gone down in infamy as the man

who struck his own wife with a golf ball by accident. You could, you could say, I mean, I don't know where our marriage was in this whole debacle. I mean, I mean, the verdict's out. Maybe he was, maybe he's a really good golfer. No, he's not. I played, I played with him. I think my recommendation, if he would have just listened to me, I said, you need a new hobby. And then later on, when I heard about this story, I said, you should have listened to me. Because I told him that.

He's terrible. Well, he definitely, he's hung it up now because of his past. But I also tell Al the same thing when he, you know, went. away were you from each other? Probably. How far is it from the man's T-box to the woman's T-Bow? Probably 20 yards. Depends on the T-box. I mean, some... I'd say probably 20 or 30 yards. Yeah. Not far. Yeah. I mean, a firecracker just

blew up in my ear. That's what it felt like. But you had, remember, Dad, you got to remember a golf ball off the face of a driver. I mean, we're talking about 100 miles an hour plus. Well, you got to remember. Well, hitting her ear was one thing bad. enough, but just think about if that hit her in the eye. Oh, the doctor said

if it would have been a half an inch to the left or to the right, it would have killed me instantly. Yeah. My ear literally looked like Schmeagle the next day. I mean, it was like swollen out and up here. She looked like an MMA fighter. I mean, it was a little. Chase, let's take her last break.

But as a golfer, I know what happened. If you're a right-handed player and you come over the top of the ball as you're coming up, you hit what they call a gallery killer which is a low pull hook a gallery killer that's what they call it's called it's called a gallery killer it's it's a low hook that's about five feet off the ground and it's headed left in a hurry you're you're amazed that the ball doesn't hit you in the left ankle look i hit the last time i played i hit one first drive with big tournament pressures on you know and i mean i hit a gallery killer

luckily there wasn't a gallery there but and I've been playing golf long enough to where I shouldn't do that but I mean I know the shot he hit yeah that causes that well that's why amateur golfers when we're watching a golf tournament on TV we're watching these pros and they hit a shot

and they got all this line of people on both sides I mean it makes me start sweating oh yeah they don't worry about it but I'm thinking about my swing you know versus them I mean I've played in those Celebrity Pro-Ams. And, I mean, I got up on, I hit my first T-shot, the biggest, I mean, there was a few thousand people there.

And I hit it a little bit off the fairway. Well, they just made a little tunnel. And I said, hey, and everybody looked at me like, because I think they thought I was going to move them back. I said, if y'all don't believe in the resurrection, you need to back up now. Did this particular accident that it, uh, help your marriage or did it hurt it or have no effect on it? Well, I don't know.

Maybe the impact shifted something in my brain that, like, caused me to, you know, when I have this moment of confession for the Lord, I mean, that verdict's still out. But I will say this. I don't know about helping my marriage, but I'll never get Paula Godwin frying up steak for me.

Because I couldn't lift my head for four days. The rooms would just spin, spin. I mean, that's like concussion. I don't know about my marriage, but... Plus, you know, all your balance is all right in that area. Like, you get vertigo.

Yeah. It's all your ear and ear. So you've got a lot going on, those little bones there. They're almighty, when he put all that right in there, that's a sensitivity. Yeah. And, I mean, that was a bad place. You had to have really affected Zach, too, to do that to his woman, you know, accidentally. Yeah, I mean, it was a near-death experience.

It's hard to wrap your head around. around that with a guy with a golf club playing in a charity. But I noticed they never played that tournament again. So thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. It ended. Sorry about that.

Whatever we could have raised. So we got just a few minutes left, Jill. So I want to just kind of maybe give a couple of parting shots to the audience. So we got a lot of female listeners, which is awesome. Our Unashamed Nation is really growing on the female side. So what would be kind of an art? arch of encouragement for people that may have the same struggle as you. Maybe they have a come to that honest place of talking about it. So what would you say to just kind of encourage them to maybe step out

of that, out of that pretend life? So one of the things that I think I would say is, and I say this a lot, is that healing is a process. And for me, like this book, this isn't like a, oh, this one thing happened to me. So I wrote a book. This is years and years of God like pulling. back the layers of my heart and he would pull back one layer and be like, oh, I kind of like that. I want more, you know. And so if you're listening and maybe you had this certain struggle, or maybe you feel like you're like me and you've lived your entire life in hiding, there's not just this one moment that's going to be like the, you know, shifting your entire perspective. But what I always encourage people to do is like the very first step is

confession to yourself. Like here's the thing. God knows. And a lot of times we say, well, God knows our struggles. He does know our struggles. But him knowing them and us speaking them to him are two completely different things. When we get to a place where we are, we can look at our sin and we can say, okay, God, I see this in me. I know that this isn't good. Like, you've got to help me. Speaking that out is to me the very first and most important step. Like speak, let yourself see your flaws, no matter how ugly they are, no matter if it's something that you think nobody will forgive you for. Let yourself see it. Let yourself confess that to a God. Yes, that already knows, but your confession is opening up your heart for the Holy Spirit to start really leading

you to truth in that area. And realize it's a process. Like for me, jealousy was that first thing in my life that I had to see in myself. And so I started journaling about it and asking God, like, please heal me of this. Please heal me this. And it was a long process. And like I said, once you start seeing God heal you of some of those things that you think you can't really see changing in your life, well, then you can't help but share it with other people. And that's the beautiful part about sharing your testimony and talks about in scripture, like, you can't help but share it because you know God's who he says he is because you've seen it displayed in your life. But it begins with just you and him.

Nobody else is you and him. Yeah. I think, I think from a spiritual perspective, what I'm saying, I think from a spiritual perspective, what I like about what you just said is we see it. And I think when you look at a church culture, you see people go into a church building, live one way, they go out and live the exact opposite.

And the reason that bothers us so much is because if you were just singing to a God who's all-knowing and all-powerful and he knows how many hairs you have on your head, much less what you're thinking, well, it's so hypocritical to then act like once you left the building, he's not acknowledging what your heart is saying. And I thought about that 1st John 1 8.

It says if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth's not in us. But if we confess our sins, he's faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purifies. And then it goes on to say, if anybody sins, in which we all do, we have one who speaks to the father in our defense, Jesus Christ, the righteous one. I think just acknowledging that, that he's God and that his love is there, it's the same way with our kids. I used to tell my kids, if you'll just tell me the truth, I won't give you a spanking, no matter what you did, because we'll work through it. But when you lie about it and pretend, well, now we have a problem because the trust is gone and there's no way to help, which is what you've hit on. And I'm glad you did because I think it's a top

five need in our culture and in our lives. Thank you. Well, and it's, you know, it's Jason, the age old. We said it many times on the podcast, the very first sin that was committed was based on a lie because the evil one lied. And it happened to be a woman. And it happened to be something she was looking at and saying, you know, I could have more if I followed this instead of what God told me to do.

So in a sense, you're just really revisiting a thousands-year-old. you know, repetitive process of what Satan does. So, yeah, and look, you know how you know when someone is found healing through something once they've confessed and started living it is when people start sending people to them. And so when you were, you and Zach were back working with us at our church at White's Ferry Road when you were in Westman Road, I remember a lot of times Lisa and other people would say, I need, I need to send this person to talk to Jill. And a lot of teenage girls because struggling with the same.

thing. So when you start, when people start showing up and saying, okay, or people bring people to you and say, can you talk to my friend? Can you talk to this girl? That's when you know God's starting to work out that process. So I think any time we find healing, the first thing we should be open to is helping other people find the same thing. Absolutely. Which leads you to write a book. So I encourage Unashamed Nation. It's called Shallow, Drowning in the Shallow End of People's Approval, Jill Dasher, wife of our own Zach Dasher. And I don't know about you, Jason, Dad. And I don't know about you, Jason, but I feel like our podcast is taking a big step up once we kick Zach out this door. Would y'all agree?

I mean, that was a great podcast. Thank you, y'all, so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you, Jill. It was fun. Thank you, Jill. It was fun. And inspiring.

Hey, guys, don't forget to order your copy of Shallow at Jill Dasher.com. Entering the code Phil10 and get 10% off. That's Jill Dasher.com, fill 10. is the code to get 10% off. The link is in the description. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

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