Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 332 | Phil’s Reasons Women Are Crucial to the Church and Why a Holy Kiss Doesn’t Work Today

Episode Date: August 22, 2021

Jase and Phil discuss the importance of women in the church and why Jesus included women in key positions of power. Phil and Al discuss the importance of small groups and why they help to shape new Christians. Jase kills a spider during the podcast. The Bible urges us to “greet one another with a holy kiss,” but is that a good idea these days? And the guys talk about why we should be very wary when anyone takes a single verse and tries to make doctrine out of it. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So how many, looking back over the years, because we're all getting a little bit longer in the tooth, as they say. Speak for yourself. Jay's just experienced a new birthday, or the latest birthday himself. How many groups like, you know, House Church, Bible Talk, small groups. so many different names for them through the years, but how many have you been a part of, you think, over the course of your now almost 50 years, dad, for how many of you led, been in, been a part of?

One of them blasted, what we call house churches. We volunteered, our abode for people to come to. So I've already forgotten what day we met, you know. We've probably met every day of the week. We met every day of the week. At different times. People coming and going. So, and we would meet in our house.

We did that for about 20 years. Now, Ms. Kay has various women groups. She works with, so she works with basically the women. They get together and they'll have a little meal and they'll have their Bible lessons. Sometimes it's 10 or 15, sometimes, 20, 30. But she does that during the week, you know. I mainly deal with men and women.

But if we deal with women, we have sisters or wives on the premises. Right. Just to be there. Well, probably from the beginning before Jason, I went to school or whatever, when we were, we have a part of a little church out here. It was kind of a little community church. Y'all were kind of raised in an atmosphere of a house church. Well, there was always people there, and we were certainly always studying.

A lot of hospitality. You and mom would have people in that taught you because you were new Christian. So, like, I remember those where you'd feed the preachers fish, and then there'd be a big Bible study after it. And then there were times when there were big people come in and you would teach them because they didn't know the gospel. So that was kind of our upbringing out here on the river. But I remember when y'all came to that conclusion, because you're in the middle of nowhere. It'd be hard to get people to show up out here. Well, you think that, but they've been coming for 40 years.

Phil used to say the reason I'm sharing Jesus with everybody that comes down here, because I'm assuming they're lost. Literally. In more ways than one. I mean, what are you doing down here? So the Lord must have sent them. But I just remember. Plus, then a TV show came out of that, and the audience swelled exponentially.

It got a little beyond. It went from a few rednecks meeting around to, you know, like about a 12 million audience that God dropped on us. So then it went to, we need a gate. Yeah. Then it became like we looking out at 8 o'clock at 7.30 in the morning, you look outside, and in your drive. way there's 50 vehicles well that that certainly was a different era I said we're going to have to we're going to have a but I just remember when I was I guess a teenager or whatever and you were going to you would say let's do a fish fry and we'll do a house church it wasn't necessarily

weekend and week out it was just like let's let's do this or like once a month there was a process there yeah and I remember several times more people would show up than we would anticipate and feel would be like go run another net. Yeah. You know, or just remember that moment. Well, we had some lows and fishes moments, but unlike Jesus,

we couldn't just miraculously make it happen. So somebody had to go get some more fish and come back, right? Yeah, but the same concept. But the fish that were actually in the nets, probably, we can look at it a lot of different ways. But somehow, usually there was fish in the nets. We always had enough. Yeah, that's exactly.

Well, it was more. painful though because you knew that was money that you weren't going to make. That's right. That's correct. When you had to run them, we used around the fish. We noticed that when you can eat all the fish, you can hold free, that people come to that. Yeah. In mass.

Well, it is ironic. And we've talked about this before that that's a very biblical. I mean, Jesus did the same thing. He sure did. And on a couple of different occasions. And then he had fish himself, you know, it is after. They had the throw nets, you know, and they kind of just go down and scoop them up. But we had primarily hook nets, sometimes webbing.

So we had trammell, what they call trammel nets. I'd love the sea of Galilee because when I looked at it, of course, a hoop net wouldn't work unless you had a bridle. We had much better netting than they had 2,000 years ago. Well, there was no current, but you drop a trammel net across that thing. Of course, you'd need the one about a few things. thousand yards long to go across it but boy i would i would love to do that just once i'm sure it's probably illegal in some car i'm sure did you see anybody actually fishing it no one huh but i asked i've told this story before when we ate the restaurant there were kids throwing food over the

over the dock and i saw these opalus cat gather up by the hundreds that that's what was eating they were throwing popcorn. And you saw this with your eyes. Yeah. Apollusus. All ops, all flatheads. They looked. Then everything started coming together for you.

I said, yep. I see why we, you know, Jesus chose here. He knew. I mean, I really thought that. A lot of our listeners, they're thinking, Apolluzes his cat. I wonder what he looks like. They wouldn't believe it if you told him.

You know what I'll admire about Apollus cat? We've talked about them before that each one, like a blue cat per se, they all look They all look identical. Yeah. Just bigger, smaller. But an Ipluses cat, they all have a slightly different pattern. Yeah. To them.

They're all unique. Which is, I said this before because somebody tried to correct me that it by being an Appalusa, which is another term for them like an Appalooza horse because it's the same concept, but same, you know, generic color. But yeah, they all have a different pattern. Some of them are darker. Some of them are lighter. Some of them are super, you know, it was real light color versus the dark colors.

So you just never know. So what part of seawater figured that? How come most catfish all have the same exact general makeup? And then you have the opalusus catfish. Which is the best eating by far. Which has no, nothing that there's not too alike. That's right. I mean, I think that's worthy of something to say.

So the groups we had, there was always a purpose. We went, so we left this little smaller group we had out here. We went back to a larger church, but we took the group mentality with us. And I remember when we went back, there was a preacher there named Ray Melton, who was a good friend of ours. And so they were kind of just starting the idea that if we're going to have a large church, if we're really going to get into people's lives, we're going to have to break this thing down. where you're actually interacting with each other, not just coming up and sitting on Sunday morning,

listening to a preacher, which, you know, and it was a good concept. So we were kind of, you know, we were still the same problem today. Exactly. So we were the guinea pigs,

sort of, to start that group stuff up. And I remember the first thing I ever did before I ever worked for the church or anything, I led a group and it was called, Stevens and came up with this, Dan's dad. It was called a microgroup is what they call this one.

And it was just three, three guys and me. And I'm fairly new Christian. So, I mean, I know just a little bit more than these three guys knew. So it wasn't like I was, you know, real heady. But it was just going through basic, simple things about the gospel. And, you know, I still remember all three of, this is 30 years, 30 plus years ago. I still remember all three of those guys.

One of them, two of them, two out of the three are still with us at that. That would be a far. And one I wound up going to prison right after that because he had some issues. But he made it through that. and he's a strong brother. But I still remember that initial group that I led 30-plus years ago. It shows you the power of community that you don't forget that. I think that was God's, I mean, we're bringing this up because Romans 16 and just the entire New Testament.

There's way more about house churches than synagogue worship. Right. That's correct. People were meeting in homes from various different types of leaders. And I think you're right. It works better when you have the big pod. Everybody gets together on Sunday morning. Then the next phase are the house churches, which we've been a part of a house church for, you know, I don't know, 25, 30 years.

Over 30, yeah. Yeah, various different communities. Then you have varying your body as a living sacrifice in view of God's mercy. What he did through Jesus, the gospel, good news, make it your ambition to live. a quiet life. So, you know, offer your bodies as living sacrifices. You say, holy and pleasing to God. Don't conform it on onto the pattern of this world. Well, this is a far stretch from what the world does. We were down there praying, singing, sharing the scriptures, showing love, joy, what I'm saying is then you had the model, then the house church went to various small groups.

and then even to the microgroups. I think the microgroup idea came for new Christians. So you'd have someone who was, because I used to lead like five of them back in the day. I'd do that five nights. We have five different pods of young guys. Because another thing, too. What you're doing is you're discipling them.

I mean, you're leading them and the things they need to know because they're brand new, and so you're spending time with them, just like Jesus did with his society. What we erroneously did with all the groups that have manifested themselves within Christianity, all the groups had got to be, what do you call it, kind of like the Pharisees had done to the law, they just formed kind of a group meeting and kind of like an event on Sunday mornings where you just go and you don't participate much.

Well, I think a better analogy is they were trying to reproduce temple, the temple experience. Yeah. Because, you know, that's why he said, you said Romans 12, we are that temple now. But they had a mindset that you go to the temple and you don't really encounter God. He's there. His presence is there in the most holy place that you can't get to. And then you offer up a sacrifice and then you go back home and you live however you live. And so I think that's, that's a, there's been a try.

an attempt to reproduce. And they'll even call a place a sanctuary. The cheesy churchy slogan is we should be pursuing relationships instead of rituals. But I think that is it. Yeah. It's ritualistic worship versus having relationships with what small groups are all about. That's true. You got to remember these people who came to Jesus, especially all my buddies back in the day when I was in my early 20s.

they came to Jesus. Of course, now we've gone through this many times. They're going from the literal water in Spirit Field to the wilderness because they don't have anything to do. They've been in mischief every night for the past couple of years, getting drunk, going, bar, hopping, and all of a sudden they come to Jesus. And they're excited about that, but what are they going to do?

So we basically had a group. A lot of those guys back in the day, and even to this day, other people just stepped in to this day, and they're doing the same thing. They have somewhere every night that you can go. Just think about it. There's a group somewhere at the two churches that I'm involved in.

There's a group every night somewhere. Right. So when somebody tells me, well, you know, I need something, I was like, I'm going to give you two churches because somebody is meeting right now. Which I think is awesome. And a lot of people that come out of the, you know, especially coming out of the world, they need to be occupied with spiritual things because the evil one is still after them.

And so they have to, you know, they need to be with some people. Until it becomes a pattern. Right. That's right. Until it becomes. Romans 12 again, you know. Well, it's. Don't conform to the pattern of this world.

Right. Well, most people in the world are not sitting around talking about Jesus. No. Well, but plus you got to remember. How to behave. Praise God to find it at as being born again. Well, you wouldn't take a newborn baby and just say, all right, good luck. It doesn't work that way.

And it doesn't work that way in a spiritual context either. You just don't pat them on the back and say, yeah, good luck. Let's take a break. And one of the things I want to mention because I get a few emails that say, I know you guys are down on big churches, but you're misunderstanding what we're talking about. We're not down a big, too. In fact, all three of us through the, me too, because they invite us to come in to some big place to get more people to come in and hear the gospel.

So I'm all about big. That's good. Well, big means there's a lot of people going to heaven there. That's right. And look, there's a lot of groups out there that, I mean, they got it going on. They got excitement. They love Jesus. I'm down on legalistic churches.

Well, and not leaving behind that it's not just about the big. It has to go to the individual and the small. That's the whole point of this. That's what's happening. Yeah. So, I mean, you're trickling down. I'm down on ritualistic churches, whether they're big or small. Right.

It has to, at some point, though, to get big, there has to be groups of people on a daily or nightly basis in homes or at their workplace or in some way. Getting together and connecting in Jesus and those little teams, which is not unlike. what Jesus did. He come down and he picked 12 people and they took off. Then they went from town to town. I mean, they kind of went the opposite, started small, went big. But I'm saying a lot of these churches who are big and may have got lazy need to get small again, not everybody move away, but in their own individual groups. That's why we're a big proponent for small groups in some capacity. And think about it. You go back to the Old Testament model again. How many times is it said in the prophets and in Psalms, I don't want your ties.

I don't want your sacrifices. I want your hearts. I'm going to kill the slaughter. Get him, Jace. That's a recluse, sir. Tarantula. Yeah. Well, the forces of evil have risen up against us.

Once again, on the Unashamed podcast, you never know. you're going to have to take a pause for. And we're not cutting that out because that's just part of what we do. The big spider crawls up. You got to take care of it. I love spider. I'm glad you had a shoe you could get off in a hurry. I love spiders.

Did that thing come off of you and just come out of cracking a wall? I saw it come out and it come up. But it saw me and it raised up. I said, that's where you messed up. I'm not going to be intimidated by it. I mean, that spider there will hurt you. The forces of evil come at you in various ways. So what I'm doing is, is God has put us in charge of the animal kingdom.

This fighter here should have stayed outside. He's going to get in here where we live and function. And, okay. Good job, man. That's all right. So in a lot of ways, to prove your point, I mean, when you get right down to it, what we're doing right now is a small group. It is.

There's three of us. We do this. We do this about four times a week. Yep. just to be able to share with other people. Here was the problem. So the historical side of it, and we're going to dive in a little bit into Romans 16,

you had the church by nature had to start like it did. It was a lot of people. You remember there was 5,000, 3,000 being added, a lot of people, but they had to meet sort of underground once the persecution started. Think about it, Al, it's 2,000 years from the time this was written. But say, take North Korea, China, where else,

Iran, there are small groups of Christians that's, and look, it's a mighty throng of them. China, there's millions, but they're under the radar out to this day.

Because they have to be. They're moving around and they're going to this house and that house and over there, and the Chinese, they've got it fixed where they're very hard to locate. So by nature, the very things we're talking about with community, in people's lives are going to happen naturally.

You get around 300 AD and Constantine was the emperor of Rome, and he converted to Christianity. Yep. And all of a sudden, we went from an underground thing to a national thing where it was okay. Everybody could come out of the closet and be a Christian. The problem was the first thing he did because he loved God and his, you know, faith is he started building these big structures because now it's like anybody

meeting, you know, so at first it probably seemed awesome, you know, for the church because we're out there. In fact, he took his whole army and basically said, if you're going to be a Roman army in the Roman army, you've got to be baptized, which is not the best way to lead people to Christ, but he just kind of forced the whole army to be baptized. But here's the thing.

But that started a process then that we're still struggling with today where it became about the structure as opposed to the people. And so that's a big change, 300 years earlier when Jesus was on the earth, a big change occurred for that to even happen. It shows you the power of the gospel. You see what I'm saying? What's any successful team and unit?

I mean, they do, like in football, you see the team, everybody come and play them, but they all have individual talents and individual. Like when they're practicing, and the wide receivers all together in this little group, they all get in. They unite. Yeah, they unite.

everybody works on their own stuff and then they're trying to bring everybody together and well the ones that pull that off they're successful they ran and when you watch them in warm-ups before the game that's what they're doing they're all doing their little drills and then all of a sudden they they split into the two units and they're running some plays and these guys over here getting the defense ready military does same thing they break them down into you know small groups all the way up to whatever the name that's a good analogy because But it's the big game is that we're in front of these, you know, in SEC, we're in front of 100,000 people to perform.

But you realize that the only way they're going to perform well is everything else that happened that week and everything before that moment to get them in the position to perform. Well, and I think it illustrates also that we all have different talents and ways to go about and methods, I guess, of sharing Jesus and getting in people's lives. So each group kind of takes on. its own identity in in jesus and i think there's i think that has to happen in churches yeah has to it's the same mentality that for success for overall success you have to have at the individual level people doing exactly what they've been called to do which is pretty good exactly so in uh so roman

16 just to go ahead and get there so paul is closing out the book and we already kind of said at the end of chapter 15, he sort of had this personal, like, appeal to them on what he'd been doing and what he's about to be doing. And I think it was sort of twofold because he was going to Jerusalem to drop off a, you know, a contribution that he had taken from all the Gentile churches to give one last time. Because the Jerusalem church was very poor because they were under this Roman tyranny in Jerusalem. So they had it rough. You know, we know that from the first few chapters in Acts. So he's going to give him some money because he said it's important that the other churches bless the Jerusalem Church because that's where the gospel started. So he's kind of

his last time to go there. So I think that was special to him. And now he's fixing the head to Rome and meet these guys for the first time. And so that kind of is leading into this chapter 16, which is for the house churches that meet there. Well, it's a lot of people, they wouldn't read Roman 16. I dare say there's been very few. classes in churches on Roman 16 or podcast very few was there like oh he just sends them finally yeah he's just having anybody hey hey why would you take the time knowing this is inspired writing that's right to write down the names of various important you know what really impacted me now there are two little sermons in there which is in roman 16 17 through 19 yep and then

25 through 27. And those are awesome for churches because he's basically in the 17 through 19 section says, watch out for these people who among you who are trying to lead you astray. So that's always going to happen. And a lot of people, they don't like going to churches or being a part of a church because they're like, well, there's people there who are hypocrites or not real. Yep. Paul acknowledges that.

They're there. What's it got to do with you? Yep. Right. Nothing. So that's an excuse. And then that last statement really just, I think, sums up his, the whole letter in a paragraph form. It's really kind of a deep saying.

Yeah, he's going to go back and sort of sum the whole thing. Let's take a break, Jay, before we start. But before we start, but before that, what moved me the first time I read Roman, and 16 is that we have a model pretty much in America that churches go by. You got the one guy in charge and his poor wife, you know, she's the pastor's wife, and that's what she's known for. And everybody's watching every move she makes just because the pressure's on here. Most of the wives, they just sit there quietly.

Yeah, and this pastor's hoping not to offend. It's having to do all the work. because that's what we're paying him do. When Ephesians, Paul also wrote that all these people who are the leaders, they're to prepare God's people for the works of service. But the model, we just, that's what it is here. We put it all on one man and no one man can really handle that well. No.

Well, the model that Paul gives indirectly here is nothing like that. I mean, the first person he mentioned is our sister, Phoebe, a servant of the church. And however you say that place, you want to try? Centria. Centria. As you receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me. What in the world would she have had to do, where she's topple of me?

where she's top on the list of Paul in this ministry. What do you think her life? A very serving woman. And a leader. And a leader. And essentially, Jason, because that word, a servant is in the NIV version. We're reading in the more updated version, they use the word deacon. You also see Deacon S down in the margin.

And then that word later at first, she's helped a lot of people. The word benefactor is what that means. you know, from the Greek. So I thought it was interesting is that Paul would mention her first. And it also goes back to you remember one of the criticisms we talked about when we were talking about Jesus was the Pharisees. And they said, look, he even has women in his inner circle. Remember when that was one of the charges against Jesus?

So much for women being silent in the churches. Well, and I think that's why we get off. And look, the last place I was out, somebody asked me about that. You know, we was doing a meeting greet. He's like, yeah, I heard you on the podcast trying to change the role of women. I looked around behind me as he was looking. I was like, oh, you're talking to me? I mean, I love it when I meet somebody and they mischaracterize whatever they thought I said.

And that's their greeting, you know. It kind of, it kind of ticked me off. It's not the best way to greet. No, it's not at all. I said, well, you have a situation. in Corinth, now we're in Romans now, and I do think it's interesting that Paul picked out a woman right off the bat and said, hey, she's helped me and everybody else around here. I mean, that woman, I commend her. I like the idea that she's a benefactor as well as a servant. By the way,

there were a lot of those. Lydia, who we read about in Act 16, she was a businesswoman, and it was just her and some women that helped start the whole Philippian church. So, I mean, they played a, women played a huge role in the early part of the church. But you're right. Jesus is apostles and those women that followed along, who, by the way, followed all the way to the cross. Yep. And then the next chapter, when we get to Acts, this is a little obscure verse, but I want to read it because I think it's important. But in Acts 1, where he says those who are present upstairs, and you're,

remember it said, where does it say all the believers? Oh, that's in 15. Instead of among the believers, now look, it's a big debate about, because 120 just seems so small. You would think there would at least spend 5,000 who ate the fish and the bread gathered up there, you know, and all the America, there's 120. That's it. But before he says that, they had returned to Jerusalem, because you remember, he said,

you'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes. And we know this is leading to the Spirit being poured out. So they're gathering up in Jerusalem. And when they arrive, verse 13, they went upstairs to the room and where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James, and Simon, and Judas, not the one that betrayed the other one.

They all joined together constantly in prayer in this next little phrase, along with the women and marry the mother of Jesus and with his brother. So this was the cadry that had now experienced Jesus' death, Bell, resurrection, and it was there. But that along with the women in that culture at that time is the same reference. You said when they're like, I mean, he's got women as key people around his chosen people. I mean, he actually has women. Let's face it, the degrading of women.

And they're allowing them to say things. The degrading of women in a lot of cultures is horrible, even to this day. Right. I mean, it's like sit down and shut up and cover up. We don't want to see anything, but your eyeballs is coming out. Right. And if you don't comply, we're going to wrap you on the back. Think about it.

They couldn't even vote in these United States for, you know, 150 years, whatever. I mean, that's really embarrassing. I mean, it's half the workforce of a country, of a church, of a whatever. And it's interesting because you're right. Oh, look at the stunts we pull just over that. But these legalistic people today in the church, you know, I think they took the situation that was going on in Corinth, which, look, you got a culture who's really struggling with gender identity.

Yeah. I mean, First Corinthians, where is that where he goes through the sins they were into? that is what some of you were. Yeah, First Corinthians, 6. Of course, he did say that is what some of you were, but they were all gender-related. I mean, you had the homosexual references in there and the male prostitutes.

You couldn't tell the men from the women. You have the long hair issue come up, which people now in our culture confused with wearing a hat. You know, I'm like, I don't think that was his point there. You know? But if you're looking, if you look, look like a woman, if you're a man and you look like a woman and you're a woman and you're looking like a man and you meet, he brought that up. Where's that? First Corinthians read it. It's in there.

But he's 11. Yeah, First Corinthians 11. So, and they also have the ability to do spiritual gifts at the laying homes of the hands of the apostles. Right. So just think about how that plays. You now have the ability to do miraculous events. So when they got together in their assembly, there were some women, evidently, in 1st Corinthians 14, who were just trying to use these gifts without being submissive to the overall function of the gathering. They were being disruptive.

So he chastised them, but it was more about the use of, of spiritual gifts than it was, you know, this role of women. Right. And what I gave the analogy today, it's like, you know, my niece got up and spoke at our church, Willie's daughter, and shared what she was doing around the world for Jesus. Well, there were a few people saying, hey, you know, women are supposed to sit down and shut up. She shouldn't be speaking. She was reaching.

I said, I asked her dad, I said, so how many people? She impacted out there. He said, half a million, 500,000. Yeah, just in one year. She's spoken to 500,000 girls, young women like herself. They said, that's correct. I'm like, turn her loose. I don't want to shut her up.

So the elders who are married to women, who are single units before the Lord, I mean, that's what Jesus said, what God is joined together, let not men separate. they thought it'd be a good idea if she got up. They thought it'd be inspirational for her to share about sharing in Jesus. So there's no authority issue that the elders made the decision. This is what we're doing. She's humbly saying, yeah, I'll share. And what's funny, not funny, ironic, is if she would have done this 100 yards away outside in the parking lot, nobody said a word.

Well, that's, in that... You know what I'm saying? Or down at the Civic Center. All right. Let's take another break. So you can go speak at the Civic Center or out in the parking lot or any other day besides Sunday

and you're good. But walk in here, turn around at the request of the elders and somebody says, you know, I don't know if we are to do this because First Christmas is 14 says she's supposed to sit down and shut up. I'm like, well, maybe you're not viewing

1st Corinthians 14 in a proper way you ever thought about that which is which is why we talk about the context of scripture all the time yeah and why things were said when they were said well back to roman 16 why would he start well right but i want to say this one point now i'm not saying if the same girl who they said get up and do that if she was sitting on the back row and you were up there preaching and all of a sudden she just decides you know what it's time the lord told me and she stands up and starts hollering well guess what then i would go to first christians 14 i'd say i think we whoa whoa what you doing you know you need to go ask your husband about this at home don't be just or go talk to the elders and and let's give you some some time if they deem it that's a but the fact

that you're doing this on your own on the back row probably means they're not going to put a thumbs up on you getting up there so that's what i'm saying it's not like we're we're against that but i just think people draw conclusions on what this means as a structure in a ritualistic way and they get a million miles away from the goal which is reaching people right persecution against women goes back ages yeah well i think for years personally. I mean, I'm getting on my soapbox here. But by trying to make it ritualistic and where I think we had an issue there that needed to be addressed, I think we just addressed it. You know, and that's fine. But to make some kind of ritualistic rule, you're basically

muzzling half of your ambassadors for Jesus. Yeah. And it's been done in a lot of churches, and that's the unfortunate part about it. Yeah. And it hurts us to try to reach the culture. Well, interestingly, Jay's, the next person, people, he talks about it, he goes back to her old pals from Acts 18. Which is a power couple. Power couple, Priscilla and a killer. We're assuming a single woman. And then he goes to a power couple, Priscilla McQuil, we've talked about them because they keep coming up in the Bible. Which other times, you know, just individuals are brought up that you know that they had something going, which I'd like to think that about my wife.

and I, because we got together in Jesus, I mean, that was really the only thing we have in common in a lot of ways. She hates to want to say this, but to this day, that's about all we got in common besides our kids. I wonder what he meant when he said they risked their lives for me. I don't know. That stood out, but to me, when you're risking your life. They kept him from getting killed somehow.

Well, when you. This couple. You remember back when they, you first read about him, that's the, that's a lot of it. when they were really after him in Ephesus and all this city. So I'm sure they did something heroic to save him. Oh, yeah. And then, of course, they wound up being a big part of this church, which was fantastic. But they were part of the team. You remember the only reason he met him is because they were tent makers. So he probably led them to the Lord. They were just sitting around making tents. And he probably shared the good news with them. That's how they became a Christian.

But they were tent makers just like he was. That's how he initially met him. So they were probably financially helping out the church too because he said all the churches of the gentiles are grateful to them and greet also the church that meets at their house so they were also leading a house church as well which which speaks highly of who they are which is pretty cool well then they greet another person which i'm assuming how do you say his name eponitis you know he may have been the father of the epinets yeah we had some friends so oh eminets he was a word Oh, Apennedus. Oh, Paulus got a little confused about John the Baptist baptism and the baptism into Jesus,

you know, and said he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue when Priscilla and Aquila heard him. They were like, uh-oh. They invited him to their house and explained to him the way of God more adequately, which, biblically speaking, they kind of lined him out on exactly the difference of John's baptism where no holy spirit was given and the baptism in that guy was an up-and-comer too oh yeah a lot going on a lot of disciples were following him this is exactly right well then you look again but she was involved in the lining out i'm you know he didn't say you know quillis is the one

that did it she was there too oh yeah they both were in front of it so then verse six here we go another woman yeah single woman i guess greet mary who worked hard for you and then he you know the next two, he said that they were in prison with him. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ Jesus before I was. And you start reading through this and seeing how many times he mentions house churches and these households and like verse 11, greet those in the household. And then how hard they're working like verse 12. And then like the second part of them.

They're in and out of jail. And, I mean, Trifina and Trifosa had to be twins, right? Those women who work over there. And then he brings up another woman. But Paul gets his reputation in the religious world. Like, oh, he was against women because he wrote the First Grandin. Well, read Roman 16. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there's more women being single out here and addressed than there are men. Yeah. And they're all meeting in homes. Some of them have been in prison with them. They're being persecuted for them. they're out here in small groups and pods and in their homes and they're trying to win the world for Jesus. A lot of them too, by the way, instead of being in positions of renowned positions, these people, they were just common everyday people.

There's normal folks. It's just normal folks. Yeah. Few of them had some. You know, these people weren't entitled. They were with names and, you know, work your way up, you know, the latter, you know, the latter, you know, the spiritual ladder until you're finally a pastor and all that. He's saying these are very important people.

There was one in here, though, who's the head of the public works? I think he's a little bit later. Where was he at? One of them, it was interesting. You said that because I thought it was interesting that one of them was a guy who worked like in local government. He made sure to mention him. He was like, you know, this guy's in charge of public works.

Like, you know, he can help us out, you know, by doing so. But let's take our last break, Jay. So I'm all for these megarcharch. But what I want you to know is if you're having a mega church that's not a ritualistic meeting and you're on fire for Jesus, you're going to have this look within the community. Yep. And within what we call parish, you may call county. This is the model for great churches. Right.

Different people working their tails off. Male and female. Male and female. Married couple, single girls, you know, cousin-in-law. whatever he's got them all addressed here who are out there working on a daily basis for Jesus they have small groups of people that's what the church is made up for and that's how it should function miss Kay had one of her women that's with that group when I came over here for us to do this she's in the yard and then one of the sisters came by and picked her up they're headed they had

their Bibles with them, they're headed to do whatever women do when they, in the Bible, like these girls here, you know, whatever they're, you know, it's not something that you, you would want to run upon as a man and say, oh, hey, how's it going here? I'll just join you all. No, it's the women being women, you know, but they do a great work. They do. They take the younger girls and they're, they're mentoring them, Al. Right.

And then I like it in 16, he gives them this, the culturally, in the Eastern culture, and they still do it to this day. Greet one another with a holy kiss. The most unfulfilled verse in the entire Bible. That's exactly right. If we want to make everything command oriented, then we're going to start kissing each other. Well, as a borderline germaphobe,

I always felt uncomfortable about that verse. But it became my friend when I started studying with legalists, like over what we said about this women's role, who were trying to turn their whole Christianity in what, happens for one hour in a church building what they call corporate setting. That's what they want to argue about and discuss. And I'm like, well, you're not greeting one another with a holy kiss. They're like, well, that was a culture thing.

Greet one another with a holy kiss, period. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it says. That six foot distancing throws a wrench and those cogs. I was sitting there wondering, okay, now I've got to stay six feet away from me, but you want me to be baptized you. In our culture, it's a holy handshake or a holy side-to-side hug. That's what we would call.

I do like that he put the context in there that a holy kiss because a kiss could mean a lot of different things, a lot of different contexts. In this case, but look, I experienced it. I've told the story before. When I went to Eastern Europe and there was all these new Christians, they were Albanians. On both sides. They kiss on both sides. And I mean, at first I admitted, it's a little bit freakish.

You know, you're not used to, you get that stubble from a man on your cheek. It just doesn't feel right. Yeah. But over the three weeks I was there is uncomfortable. I was just, they come in. That's just how they greet you. So I wasn't, I'm in their culture. I wasn't going to say, hey, oh, ho, ho, we don't do kissing around here.

So I just went with it. And by the end of the three weeks, it felt natural. I think I would have just like. When I came home, though, I didn't start it at WFR. I think I'd put the fist up as a blocker. Yeah, you'd have been the typical of marriage. Fist bump. Then it'd have been a boxing match.

You may be able to grow in that area there, Chase. Yeah, maybe. But my point was bringing up my niece when she got up, the same people. So she can do this 200 yards away, not on a Sunday morning. I think they're missing the point of my going through that way. was is I think God did set up the system to help these decisions in providing elders and deacons. Yeah. And those are the leaders of the church, and they get together. And so it's not an authority issue in 1st Corinthians 14. Where were the elders?

Yeah. Where were they at? Well, it was a young church. Young church. And these are the kind of the problems that you get into, and they have these miraculous. Because you remember everybody's new. It's not like it had some seasons. and we come along in 2000. And a lot of tough backgrounds. Oh, exactly. Well, my point is people that are hollering about that verse saying, no, it says here women should be silent. But they move that on to say, well, so that's an hour and a half.

They cannot, what does that mean? They cannot utter a word. So I'm saying I use this verse as an example. I'm like, well, you don't greet one another with a holy kiss. Well, then they said, well, that was a cultural thing. And I was like, well, why couldn't the other have some cultural and circumstance implications? Because when you read in 2nd Corinthians 4, 5, and 6, talking about us being ambassadors and we commend ourselves to every man's conscience and we set forth the truth plainly,

nobody's thinking he's just talking about men there. Of course not. I mean, women are ambassadors just, but so in that, it's fine. So then they're like, yeah, but it's just in this ritualistic sense. heading, they can't speak. You know, and there's some churches, unfortunately, out here where they can't open their mouth once they go into the bill. I would always say, as a guy who preached a long time, be very wary of someone who is

presenting the Word of God to you and takes one verse or one piece of a verse and then builds a whole doctrine or theology or whatever off of that. I'll tell you right there, you really need to look into that because if you're not understanding why it was said, when it was said. You could take anything. We could take anything out of here and do anything we want with it if we're not going to be fair to the word of God. What I would also say, I would be very wary of that.

I would also be very wary when you're trying to muzzle someone sharing Jesus in God's grace. Watch that. Watch out for that. Back up, have a meeting. What are we doing? That's right. Just think about that. Now, if it was musseling filth or four-letter words or pornography, okay,

when you're trying to muzzle someone from sharing Jesus, wait a minute. Be leery. Have a meeting. Make sure that. Good night. It's a woman. She's speaking. You're like.

Which I think that's what led to verse 17, which is what I was going to get. He said, I urge you brothers to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you. learn keep away from for such people are not serving our lord jesus but their own appetites by smooth talking flattery they deceive the minds of naive people everyone has heard about your obedience so i am full of joy of you but i want you to be wise about what is good and here's i mean you're talking about a great statement great statement be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil yeah his part was You browbeat women for no reason.

Well, or any issue. Or any issue. You can always find naive or young Christians and manipulate them with scripture. I mean, you can. And that's what's happening in our culture, unfortunately, in some churches. Yep. And this is why we're so splintered into so many groups. And look, it gets crazy out there with these fringe groups.

I mean, there's people meeting in mountains today. They're actually a thrill. because since it's not based on Jesus in God's grace, a lot of times it leads into immorality and evil behavior, and we've all seen that. Well, and he said, Dad, basically what you always say, I want to be wise about what is good. Pursue good.

And when it comes to evil, don't even be innocent of that. Don't even want to know more. That's right. You know, back to the first thing. I don't even want to get into the more about evil. I want to pursue. that which is good. And he made a key statement there about serving our Lord, Jesus. I mean, Jesus is our Lord. And he gave us the model. He loved everybody equally. He tried, you know,

to help people. And he was here by his father's business. And his attitude was always unselfish. I mean, that's the model he was trying to get them to see. Then he closed it out. I want to read this because it's such a power pack last paragraph. He says now, To him who is able to establish you, this is 25, by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus, which you remember when he said, I'm not ashamed of the gospel in Romans 116, but he says, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God. And here, I think, is the point of why he's writing, so that all nations might believe

and obey him. To the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus, amen. So we'll use that as our jumping off next time to kind of wrap up the book of Romans. So see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

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