Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 335 | Phil Robertson's Answer to Joe Biden's Afghanistan Debacle

Episode Date: August 27, 2021

Phil runs through the ways everything went south after Trump left office. Jase takes a spiritual approach to global news and talks about Hollywood's misrepresentation of Christians. Al tips his hat to all those who've fought for our country, including the courageous Flight 93 passengers who thwarted the 9/11 attack on the U.S. Capitol. The guys address an audience question about struggling with sin and grace after becoming a son or daughter of God. And Jase describes one of the few places in life where what you do doesn't matter as much as why you do it. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Before we started a relevant, Jay, you were giving us stock stuff that you've been working on. How does this Afghanistan debacle, did that affect the market and all that stuff? Yes, all went down. I mean... It's just the uncertainty, right? Uncertainty, worldly, chaos. But these are all short-term things that happen. Right.

I mean, which is kind of as an interesting thing about just chaos in general, you know. And it's just, which is interesting because you see there's always associated usually some kind of something of the evil side or bad side produces chaos. Well, I was just thinking that whole situation, which would be awful if you were there for whatever reason you would be in Afghanistan. and I guess there's different reasons why Americans are there. Well, the lesson of that, I don't think it was what was happening. It was how they went about it. You would think somebody would have gotten in a room and said, wait a because it was embarrassing.

Well, it's a really interesting. We didn't have any enough sense. In my opinion, if I'm going to do something on a scale as large as spending 18 years in a country that they were attacked rightfully so. Yeah. Because, you know, what's the old guy, they finally killed in his own? Osama bin Laden. But if I were in the works and I was calling the shots, I would always have me an exit strategy in case...

When we get out of here. When we get out of here, we better make plans, and it's going to take a while to move all this or quick. We haul over here. Or if you don't, you're going to arm your enemy, you know, leave them Black Hawk helicopters, Jim 16's ammo. Wait a minute here. Hold it. You didn't have a strategy that before you left, that you would at least destroy that if you couldn't haul it out of there.

Yeah. I would have had a strategy that covered that from the get-go. It was really interesting, Dad, because Trump spoke this past weekend. and I caught some of it. And you forget, I forget what it was like to watch Trump and listen to him. He's just, he just tells you straightforward what he would do. And it was so clear. Now I've been watching the Biden administration for, you know, how long they've been in.

And it's always murky and never clear. You're never sure what they're talking about. But look, Trump was like, he just laid it out. Here's what I would have done. Everybody says, what would you have done if you'd have been president? He said, the first thing you do is you get the equipment out of there because you can't leave that over there. You get the people out. All the Americans, you get them out.

The last thing you do is take the military out. And then he said, you go in and bomb everything we built there. Yeah. So they can't use it. He was like, and then you're like, adios. And it was so clear because I thought, that sounded like a pretty good plan. But you don't pull the military out first. Then how are you going to get?

I've seen from energy to the stock market to wars. I'm sorry, but when they were. ran Donald Trump out of the, out of the White House, their replacement. And what I've seen since then, as far as our energy, we were energy independent. Yes, ma'am. I mean, we were, we were paying half for gas when you pull up to a pump under Trump than we are now. Some of it almost seems to me down like they were just to prove a point, even stuff Trump did that was working. I mean, just, you know, even though you didn't like the guy. I mean, did everything go south when Trump left or what?

But I mean, they changed everything. The border stuff, all of them. It just didn't make a lot of sense. It just seemed vindictive. The similarity is you got to have a strategy, whether you're on the stock market or whether you're pulling out of a country. And you've got to stick to it. I believe it's helpful if you are transparent about it where you can have discussions

about it and see what's the best way to do about this. But that's why I was saying with the stock market, which is. because we get a lot of questions because people know that I do my own account. Well, that's what made me think about when you were talking about it. But they're like, well, give us some recommendations. But, you know, if your strategy is to just try to get someone to tell you what stocks to buy without knowing your situation and what your goal is, it's going to be impossible for me to do that. I don't know what your plan is.

So that's what I'm saying. It's not as easy as that. I spend a lot of research and work. And I have a little community of guys that we do it together and we talk about it. We're transparent about it. We argue. Because what we're trying to do is we're trying to find great companies and hold on to them for a long time. That doesn't mean the stock price is going to go up.

The stock price is unpredictable. You can't time it. You can't predict it. But if you get the best companies that are innovative, that are, you know, tearing down walls with new ideas and, and they're well-run, the management knows what they're doing. If you get enough of those companies with your money in it that you're participating for a long period of time, guess what?

You're going to make a lot of money. But you have to block out all the chaos, all the noise, because two weeks ago, the sky was falling. Oh, no, market's going to crash. We can't even get some, you know, people out of Afghanistan. All these other issues, that's these daily things that happen in the market. They don't really matter. They're buying opportunities if you know the right companies.

And when it's way up, you say, you know what? I might order to trim a little bit of this and put it in something that's a little slow moving or that's getting beat up. That's a great company. And so basically, you move around money a little bit in those cycles. but if you just hold the line, stick to the plan and have an open, transparent conversation about different companies, you'll look up and you'll be successful. But, you know, speaking of that, speaking of style mortgage, is you think about the people, the whole Afghanistan situation, Dad mentioned 20 years,

that people who were in positions of power that then could make decisions and do things that would make stock go up for a lot of these defense contractors and people that made, you know, black jackets and everything. You had generals that would retire, and then they were making decisions on the ground in the theater, as they say. Then they go and get on. They're a lobbyist for a defense contractor because it makes perfect sense. They know the business, blah, blah, blah. But then more decisions are made to keep you there because guess what? You've got a bunch of stock options with this new company that you're worried. I mean, do you think maybe that would have pushed some of those decisions to stay in Afghanistan for 20? I mean, it happens. It happens.

You see that. The figure I heard was we forked out about $85 billion on that caper. Yeah. 85 billion. And when we go to leave, it's just complete chaos. There's just hundreds of thousands of people surrounding an airport to try to get out of there. I mean, it did not really end. Well, I guess not end is still going on.

Yeah. Now they got this dead on. But I think when you make the way I do, the way I consider all the noise in the stock market. I mean, I hear it because it does affect it so you listen, but you disregard it as far as long-term plan. And I feel like from a spiritual perspective, you have to do the same thing with all the world that's going on. You're aware of what's happening, but you realize what we're in from a long-term perspective, and I mean long-term as in eternity, being in Jesus. That's the way to bring peace. That's what I focused on through the whole thing. I won't listen to

I don't listen. I haven't listened to any politician, make any speech at any time since the election. Well, you hadn't missed much. I listened to some, and it's very incoherent. It's very incoherent. It doesn't make a lot of sense. No political pundits. I haven't listened to either of them right, left, or in the middle.

I don't listen to them anymore. It's pretty sad. It's in a tough spot, that's for sure. But I know this, you're right, Jay, is the ultimate goal. The only way you really change people or any situation is from the inside out of them. person. Yeah. I mean, until that changes, you know, you're up against ideologies and everything else.

Mm-hmm. And people love to abuse other people. I mean, you got a group of people there. But, you know, the thing about it now, you and I talked about this recently. That thing goes back. Everything in the Middle East, the whole thing goes back generations to what we read about in the Bible. I mean, there were, there were this idea of this clash first against Israel and now it's

against Christians and the same thing, because we're just fruit of that, you know, we've grafted into Judaism. So the idea is that clash has been going on for all the way back to Abraham. I mean, you know. Empires rise and they all fall, all of them. And he's still fighting over the same piece of real estate. Yep. How many have tried to go into Afghanistan and do so?

It's been going back to Attila the Hun. But even the reason Jesus is so misinterpreted, I mean, because basically when you look at Hollywood's perspective of Jesus believing people, if you watch a TV show or or some kind of movie where Christian people are supposedly represented. They always have them as kooky and crazy or so radical. They're dangerous, you know, because they... Trying to make everybody comply. They've taken some of the fringes, because some of the fringes of religion is like that.

Yeah, yeah. But they never represent, and I mean never, unless it's a Christian-based TV show, like with people producing it. They never, a lot of the people that I know that I run with are the most loving, peaceful, serving, hardworking, you know, believers who are just solid, moral-based people. Yeah. Those aren't represented in that world. And the reason I don't think it is is the same misunderstanding they had a Jesus. You know, when they predicted the kingdom that would come and destroy all nations and powers, you know, and Daniel spoke.

of it in chapter 2 and 7 there's tons of other prophecies that this almighty kingdom would come on earth well even jesus disciples when he's here he's like i'm the messiah the king you know bringing the kingdom they kept saying well when are we going to whoop them that you know you just saw it at every turn when or let's let's take on wrong let's because you're you're you're you're going to you have all this power because they know that he wasn't bound by the laws of nature and atoms and molecules what most people would think well that's a weapon and so what they had missed is the same thing i think people believe in people miss now is that this spiritual thing the spiritual kingdom that can't be pointed at remember when jesus said you won't say here it is or there it is

because the kingdom is within you you know spirit-filled people on the earth today represents the eternal kingdom of God and is the most indestructible, powerful force on the planet. Well, when you say that, that's why they portray you as crazy. They're like, do what now? That's right. You look at a bunch of people. They treated Jesus worse.

Yeah, they walk into a church building and look around and say, you're the most powerful organization on the planet and that you're eternal and indestructible and have the ability to change the hearts of people. Literally, just think, what else can do that? Which is why that's our main theme that understand. I do want to say something as we kind of wrap the discussion up about this Afghanistan thing. I know there's a lot of vets that listen to our podcast and a lot of you serve there.

And so I don't want to get to get lost in all. this happening right now, Afghanistan, that Americans are very appreciative for the guys and gals that went to do the mission of what they had to do. And that was because you got to go back to 9-11 in your mindset. Because, you know, Jay's got an event coming up in two weeks. I'm super pumped about it. I'm going to be in Delmont, Pennsylvania, and it's on 9-12, but it's going to be to honor. It's called Let's Roll America. And it's to honor, we're a few miles from that where that plane, you know, just some normal Americans were on this plane. And they were headed. to the White House, to the Congress, that was the fourth plane.

And they were going to fly it into there. But a bunch of Americans said, you know what? That ain't happening. We're all fishing to die, but we're going to give our lives to make sure that they don't get one more victory. So I'm going there to speak at a big event to be able to honor those folks that did that. And so you got to remember back why you went. Now it gets lost in the messaging of how bad it turned out to leave. But you got to remember the mindset going into it.

same analogy about Christian people doing this day in and day out, whether it's helping the homeless or, you know, having a session with a married couple that are trying to kill each other, you know, and you're trying to change their hearts and minds and not only save a family, but, you know, change their eternal destiny. The true heroes are those guys, no matter what you think about politics or what we're doing over there, well, these military people are just putting theirself in harm's way. that's right. Representing all of us for the, you know, good of both sides. I feel the same way about the coronavirus. The true heroes of the whole thing are these health care workers. You just think of what their life's been in the last two years. I'm talking on the front lines, giving up their home time, their free time,

putting themselves at risk, you know. I feel that's the same way as far as Christianity. It's these people that are out there working on a day. daily basis with people from the rehabbers to the whatever, but representing Jesus in a favorable light and giving people hope and peace and patience, you know, through what God has given us. I mean, those are your true heroes. I think it's what you've got to step back, and look at in any situation. And then rise it to the greater conversation, which is what we try to do here. Let's take a break.

Yeah, I mean, my own son-in-law, I mean, he went over right after 9-11 and built the help start building the Bogram, you know, airbase. He was out there on the bulldozers and they're moving the dirt and getting ready because we're going to be coming. So he was at the very beginning of it, you know, and so there's a lot of guys like him and gals that, you know, went to a tough situation. So we appreciate your service, all of you guys and love you. I want you to know that. American support you. So I had a question. We had a couple of listener questions that we wanted to do today.

And one of them was interesting. I'm not going to read the entire thing because it's pretty long. But the gist of his problem is this. He said, I'm very confused on how all future sins are not counted against a person. Because he talks about being a born-again believer. But he's struggling with the idea that how do you then live, you know, sin. And he made a couple of statements, Jay, that I thought, I'm not sure what he means here, but I think this is where he's running into province. He said, if I were to slip and fall,

I must go back and do my first works. And he says, ask for God's forgiveness of those sins and try not to commit that sin. He says that a couple of times. I think that's where probably his thinking is a little bit opposite. So I thought we'd have a little bit of discussion about grace and how it works, especially for once a person becomes a son or daughter of God, because we're not perfect. And yet something has changed in our status, right, and how we live going forward. But people really struggle with this, and we get a lot of questions about it, which is why I bring it up, because they think somehow still it's back on them to somehow make this

thing right. Yeah. Which goes back to what I said, the Hollywood's depiction of Christian people, most of these fringe, radical, dangerous groups, they're not grace-based. Would you agree with that? Right. Correct. It's rule-oriented religion that leads to, when you have a rule-based theology,

you get people making up rules that are not biblical whatsoever and bring out the worst in people instead of the best. Right. And so, I mean, I say that right off the bat. To answer the question, because I, you know, I think this is a legitimate issue. Sure. In Christ is you feel like you can do this or somehow, you know, we just went through the whole book of Romans, which one of the main pillars of the book was, you can't do this. You can't do this.

This is God's righteousness. That's why we surrender. So, you know, I think I would start off saying, you know, Hebrews 13-8 is an interesting verse because it says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, today, and forever. Well, that's a statement that we can't make any human. And Jesus became a human. So what does that mean? Well, so when you think about the nature of God, the characteristics of God, and what's different between God and us? Right.

He's all knowing. He's all powerful. He's omnipresent, which is, he's not bound by space. He's completely aware of us, wherever we are, our thoughts. So in our minds, we think, well, if I messed up, I've ruined everything he did for me. And I'm back because I know about Jesus. and now I've messed up. So I think, based when you look at it from God's perspective,

well, he knows what you did. He knows what you're doing, and he knows what you will do. But Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It's because I believe his forgiveness, once we encounter that, then becomes that fact that he is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and he knows your heart. Well, he just combines it all at the same time. We're not able to do that.

Right. So we say, yes, he forgave us for all our sins. He forgives us what we're doing now, and he forgives us of what we will do because the cross and the resurrection is for the entirety of your life. Right. So if you look at it from your perspective, you feel like you're falling out of grace all the time.

But from his perspective, that's almost comical. We just covered that. So write this down, whoever wrote it, who ever asked the question, write this down. I find this law at work. When I want to do good,

and he's saying he's trying, evil is right there with me, but he makes mistakes, and he's saying, well, I've got to go back, and I'm worried now because I'm not perfect. You're in Roman 7? Roman 7. we covered this here a few weeks back.

For in my inner being, I delight in God's law, but I see another law at work in the members of my body. This is pre-Jesus and after Jesus, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law at sin, at work within my members. What he's missing is this. He spoke the truth when he said,

What a wretched man I am. And that's what the guy that contacted us, It's what he's saying. I'm a wretched man because I'm not doing everything perfect. I'm not a perfect person. His position makes him perfect in Jesus, but he hasn't realized that yet. He's young in the faith.

Who will rescue me from this body of death? Because he's still thinking he's attached to Adam, but he's now outside Adam, He's in Jesus. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. So then, I'm a self of my mind. I'm a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature, a slave to the law of sin. What he's saying is he's missing is that he's under grace.

He has constant 24-hour, seven days a week. He has constant cleansing. I wrote it down. He's in a constant state of cleansing. As he follows Jesus, he needs to, turn over to 1 John chapter 1 and read that. Try your best to walk as Jesus did, and you'll be a lot better person that if you didn't make that decision.

Try to walk as Jesus did. You say, can it be done? Yes, it can be done. No profanity came out of his mouth. You'd be the same way. A lot of these things, you can beat these things, stuff like cursing, profanity, getting drunk, being immoral. You say, you can't live like that.

John said you're in a, your pattern is loving God and loving your neighbor and doing what is right. Check this out. Everyone who sins breaks the law, in fact, sin is lawlessness. That's before you get in Jesus. Now you're under grace because you put your faith in Jesus. You obeyed the gospel. Sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he.

He might take away our sins. They've been taken away. And never forget this. Your position. Look at your position. You're in Jesus. You were baptized into his death, buried with him through baptism, into death. And all of that, you may live a new life.

In him, 1. John 3, verse 5, is no sin. Your position. When God sees you, he sees the blood. of his son and he says he's one of ours Lord he freely told us he's struggling he's not realizing we're not counting them against him he just needs to get up and move forward walk in the light walk at Jesus did do your best trust God and try that's all he demands and you'll be all right but I think it's because we put God on our level of understanding like he didn't know what we were thinking or he

He doesn't know what we're thinking now or he's fully aware. He's the God of comfort. But he's fully aware of what's going on in your heart. Right. So your heart, your spiritual heart, the decision making process and how you feel about things and why you did certain things. And we're looking at everything in our society. It's whatever you can prove.

You can commit a crime and get away with it. actually but god if he has all these characteristics that the bible points to well he would know that you did it yeah so you're not it's not gonna he knows how you feel about him and and so once you embrace Jesus's death and bell resurrection you're he's moving in yeah and and to my point which phil brought romans hang on jess let's take a break so you have this famous passage to Romans that we went through. There's all of sin, all short of glory God. But here he actually, I don't think we talked about this when we went through Romans,

but, you know, he says there's no difference. We all sin and were justified freely by his grace. And then he kind of says this about time here. He says God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood, and he did this to demonstrate his justice. And then he brings up the past, he said, because in his forbearance, he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished. He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time so as to be just in the one he justifies those who have faith in Jesus. And my point is, why is he all of a sudden going back in time saying that cross, what he did on the cross?

was forgiveness for not only right now the sins committed, but all the ones before. Now, he didn't say, and all the ones in the future. But since Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and the more you read this, you put two and two together with other places. Like I could go to Romans 8 as an example, but it says, you know, the creation is groaning. At the present time, we're waiting.

to have our bodies be resurrected or whatever. But then he throws in this statement in Romans 8 that says, verse 26, in the same way the spirit helps us in our weakness. Well, what does that mean? We're weak. And because we're weak, we may have some future issues when it comes to sin. So my point is, when Paul said that in Roman. three, there's no doubt in my mind that Jesus' death went past, present, and future.

Sure. That's what it did. That's what he did it for. Yep. It's called God's grace, and it is. It's not for something I did. It just is. It is for what I did, for it is what I do, and it is what I will do.

So God knows our heart. I think if you looked at it from, that perspective, you would then say, oh, so when I sin, what do we do as believers? And 1 John addresses that. He says, if you claim to be without sin, you make God out to be a liar. So when this guy wrote this letter, you can't say that you don't sin because then you're saying God's a liar. Well, that's horrible.

So then you're like, well, so when I do sin, what do I do? Well, there's nothing you can do. You do the same thing you did when you first came to Jesus. You say, Lord, just give him to him. Have mercy. So you confess your sins. Not that. So he's going to forgive you.

He already forgave you. That's a past president. It's hard to understand the status. So he quotes two things in his letter. And I wanted to deal with both of them because I think this is where a lot of people go off the rails. The first one he quotes is from Hebrews 11, 26. And he says his version is a little different than ours. But he says, if we deliberately.

keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. He applies this text into the thought process, especially the word willful is his word, but deliberate in the NIV, as if somehow there's a different way to sin. Something is deliberate or willful versus, I guess, accidental. I don't know, but I've seen this used to not. But isn't any sin deliberate? They all are.

That's my point. And here's the biggest point that's missed by taking this first out of context. Who was the Hebrew writer writing to? And what was the context in which he was writing? These are people who were here about Jesus. Yeah, it sounds pretty good. But I'm going to go and stick with law because that's what I've always known. This entire book is that law won't work.

Jesus is what works. So when he's talking about this deliberate sin, if you want to put it in quotations where he's talking about going back under law, which is ironic because our listener that sent it in is exactly what he's talking about doing. When you say, I have to go back to my first works, you're putting it back on the law of works. Because works wouldn't have gotten there anyway. Right. So that's what this context is in Hebrews 10. Most people miss it. In fact, they even make it worse.

Most people in our fellowship because right before that says let us not give up meeting together. So they'll say if you don't attend every time the doors open them someplace, you're deliberately sinning and there's no sacrifice for yourself. I've heard that you used as well. You're taking some situation in what you're looking at and applying something that's not what the Holy Spirit meant talking to these Hebrew Christians that had come out of law. You're trying to put them back under law. Is your walk known is your walk the way you live your life?

Is it known to all your neighbors, your kin folks, the people you meet on the street, the people you speak to, maybe you're a whatever, you're an insurance man, are you known to be walking in the light or walking in darkness? God is light. In him, there's no darkness. If we claim to have fellowship with God, yet walk in darkness, If everything you do, every time you turn up, you're known for a person who walks in the darkness. We lie and do not live by the truth.

But if we walk in the light, as he's in the light, we have fellowship with one another. And the blood of Jesus, you're under grace, you're in Jesus. His son purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, it's eating at this particular brother because he makes mistakes. Well, if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves on the truth's not in us. If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just, he'll forgive us up our sins, and righteousness will be yours. In other words, just be honest with him and say, God, look, Lord, I don't know why I did that.

Forgive me. You're all right. Get up. Let's go. Let's go. We all make mistakes. but your walk is known to everyone, what kind of person you are. Pretty well how you live, is known by everyone.

You're right. Let's take another break. And to your point, Dad, that's why it's to the Roman 6th point, when Paul says, well, man, I know some of you're going to say, this sounds so good that we're just going to start sinning like crazy. I mean, if we got grace, we just go willful, deliberate sin go crazy. Then he says, wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa. you die to that. You're living in Christ, which to me, the best passage that refutes this whole

concept, Paul says in Ephesians chapter 2. He says, all of us lived among these pagans at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature, objects of wrath. In other words, the way we lived was obviously wrong. But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy made us alive with Christ. There's the new birth. Even when we were dead in transgressions, it is by grace you have been saved. And God, listen to this, past tense, raised us up with Christ. There's the new birth.

Seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus in order that in the coming ages, he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace, you have been saved through faith. This is not for yourselves. It is the gift of God so that no one can boast. So John makes the point in his letter, try your best not to sin. He said, but if you do, it's not counted against you.

He said, I write this to you so that you will not sin. Right. Because we're back in Roman 6 again. But if anybody does sin, which this guy does, this guy sitting here, sit at here, talking to you, he does too. So to all of us. We have one who speaks to the Father in our defense, which is the key thing,

Jesus Christ, the righteous one. He's the atoning sacrifice for our sins, not only for ours, but for also the sins of the whole world. So he's saying, this can be done, but you're going to make mistakes as you go forward. Try not to, but when you do, you give them to Jesus and you get up and you move again.

That's where it works. To feed off of what Al said in Hebrews, which I think it was a great point because that's where all the, I think that's where all the confusion and the chaos is happening. You read a verse like that and there's people right now probably saying, they're saying if you deliberately keep on sinning somehow, but you're right, it was because they were trying to obtain forgiveness

through their performance of the law. Exactly. But when you do that, you've now said, in one of my favorite passages, Galatians 2.20, you're now saying that Christ died for nothing. Because it's as if righteousness could be obtained by observing the law, Christ died for nothing. So a very hard, controversial, we've argued about this passage for years.

I'm not going to get into what our argument was over. We can do that another time. but in Hebrews 6, I did a class one time called grace or disgrace. You might get you a sermon here. I like that. So I'm going to read this. This is a very difficult passage to wrap your head around. But if we just go after one principle, grace or disgrace, I think we'll see the point.

Because you've already laid the reason I want to do this is because you laid that foundation where are we going to put our faith and trust in the law, our performance, which was God's idea to give them the law to show them what? You can't do it. You can't do it. are we going to believe that Jesus is greater because of his grace? who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away to be brought back to repentance,

because to their loss, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to, and here's where I got the disgrace, subjecting him to public disgrace. Now, a lot of people say, what in the world? Is that saying you can't fall away? you can't, we can talk about that later. But let's just go into what I know the fact is of what he is portraying, is that if you try to obtain salvation without Jesus,

that's not going to work based on what I read here. If you subject the Son of God to public disgrace, whatever you do or whatever you believe, If that's your mode of operation, that would be the worst possible move you can make. That's it. So now here's what I think. Verse 7 and 8, I think he explains the point is. So he has this illustration.

He says, land that drinks in the rain, often falling on it, and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farm receives the blessing of God. So I want to stop here. So now he gives an illustration on what he's. talking about. You say, what is he talking about? Well, he has a field that's being worked, that rain is falling on it, and it's producing a crop. Well, that's God's field.

God is, you think about what he does for our life. He, he's plowing it up, he's planting it, he's sending the rain, and guess what? Crops are happening. But he's doing all the work. We're just sitting there coming out of the ground. you know he's doing the work by his grace and he's produced something that was dead so imagine all the illustrations you have a dead kernel of corn he puts it in the ground he gives us everything we need in jesus to start over and literally a dead plant comes to life that you see that all over

well the second verse of the illustration verse eight land that produces thorns thistles is worth and in danger of being cursed and the end will be burned. Well, if you alienate God's grace and his work in your life, what do you have left with you doing it on your own? Trust God. Weeds. Weeds, thorns, and thistles. Guess what?

You're not going to produce the fruit. You want to be a, you know, everybody loves corn. You want to be a big air of corn. It ain't going to happen. You know why? Because there's no Jesus. There's no grace. It's not going to happen.

So people come to this passage and they argue about, you know, whether a person falls away because they're not looking at it from God's perspective. He's saying, no Jesus and only law, guess what? Thorns and Thistles. You ain't coming. No, your point is perfect. Let's take our last break. Because you're right. It's not the point of we're all in Christ and now it's about us.

You're either in Christ or not. That's it. It comes back to that thing, because here's the flyover point. What you read in Hebrew 6, which I agree with, you go to 7, 8, 9, and 10, and the Hebrew writer lays out all those old elements, the sacrifice, the temple, the high priest. And it took away no sin. That's right. And he's making the case.

So then he gets to chapter 10 in the verse I read earlier. Look what's before that. After all that explanation of Jesus is the way. none of the other stuff will work. Therefore, since all that's true, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the most holy place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way opened up for us through the curtain, that is his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, him, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart. Listen to this, in full assurance of faith, having our heart sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience. So the whole deal is, in Jesus

you don't have to worry. Our listener that's in is worrying about something he doesn't need to worry about. That's correct. Because in Christ, we have been cleansed, even the conscience is cleansed.

This is one of the few things in life. And I mean, being a follower of Jesus. A state of cleanliness. Yes. This is one of the few things in life where what you do doesn't matter as much as why you do it.

That's a good point. I mean, if you figure out this is Grace, motivated. If you focus on that, whatever you do, which I mean, that's a quote, caution three, I think that was his point. Doesn't matter whatever you do, you do it as working for the Lord, not for men. Well, he's including you in that category of men. You're in that category. You're not working to somehow figure out how you're going to be righteous. That ain't

going to work. No. And I love the way, the way, he wrapped up that Ephesians 2 passage. He says that we are created to do, you know, we're God's workmanship created to do good works, which he prepared in advance. So the idea is, is that anything good that comes from us, it's because we're in Christ. And anything bad that we do, and sometimes we do, it's in Christ. He takes it either way. He gets the glory for the good, and he takes the bad and says, I'll cleanse it and wash it and you don't have to worry about. I mean, what a way to live. I mean, that, That's how we should be.

That gives us confidence. Once you were alienated, Colossians 1, 21, from God, and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now, he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you, here's what our man who's sitting in, they understand, to present you holy in his sight. That's what, because of what Jesus did. Without blemish, that's because of what Jesus did.

And free from accusation, that's what Jesus provided for you. If, there is an if, you continue in your faith, established and firm, not move from the hope held out in the gospel. And that's the gospel you heard. So we're back to Jesus and his death, bail, and resurrection again because of that. You're free from accusation, sodded as a rock perfectly holy, and you'll stay that way. We just trust God and try. Get up. Let's go. And it's interesting because one more thing that this guy said, he said,

Jesus also said if we love him, we must keep his commandments, which Jesus did say that. But it's interesting because what did he also say? All the commandments that are out there, I'm going to boil them down to two things. Love God. Love God and love your neighbor. Because you know what? That's doable. I mean, I can handle that.

All these people don't realize is that. There's no rule system that's going to, it's not going to work anyway. Correct. I know this from Colossians 3 where he says, since you died, I think it's verse 20, since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, wise though you still belong to it, do you submit to its rules? Don't handle, don't taste, don't touch this. These are all destined to perish because they are based on human commands and teachings.

such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom with their self-imposed worship, false humility, harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. Now, every time I've had a discussion with somebody about this, but they're like, yeah, but those are human commands and human teachers. I'm like, that's what we do with everything. You can't find five church meeting people to agree on what are the rules. If we went with the rule system, you're not going to get five that degree where the rules are. Because everybody, like you said, some people think it's a sin. A sin.

If you do not show up on Sunday morning with a group of people. I just a sin, a willful, deliberate sin that therefore you have no sacrifice for sin. I mean, that's where you get to. You're out. You're out. You might mistake. You're out. God and I and other people are meeting at my house today.

They're like, sin. fall you're not at the you know i mean there's people we laugh but there's people believe that that's right you're in the habit of not meeting so my point is what if you met you went up there and you cussed under your breath the whole time and then cussed the preacher out on the way out so you didn't sin by meeting because you were there even though you cussed everybody out and through a fit. They'll say, well, but you had another sin. Well, that's my point.

What road are we going down? So I got to come, but if I just hadn't come because I didn't have anything else to say, well, that would have been sinned. So I'm deemed. So now you've got me a situation where I just can't win. You know, Joe Beam tells a story in his book, getting past guilt, I think, is a great way to wrap this thought of. He tells about he was a young preacher.

guy comes in and he was a deacon in their church and he said i just got in but joe's young you know he says this guy was just like he looked up to him so much and he said i'm having a problem preacher he said what is it he said i committed a willful deliberate sin 18 years ago and i i think i'm going to burn in hell over course joe is thinking oh man he's had an affair he's thinking all these bad things and he said what was it he said i was stationed in germany and i never met with anybody you know i had an opportunity, but I just didn't do it. I didn't meet with a group of things. And then he quoted this first. And so Joe said, you know, the Holy Spirit gave him this wisdom. He said, you know, your son, Jeff, how was he now? He said, he's about eight. He said, if Joe, you had told

your son to go, Jeff, to go and to feed your dogs. And you came home that afternoon. He didn't do it. What would you do? He said, well, I'd go over there and chew him out. I'd say, I thought I told you to feed him dogs. He said, and what, what, and if he said, dad, I'm so sorry. What would you tell him? He said, it's okay. Just do what I told you to do? It's okay. He said, what if you came back the next day, he's still out there moping over it? And he said, well, I tell him that's over. Quit worrying about that. He said, what would you do if when he was graduating high school 10 years later, he just was all sad? And you said, what's the problem, son? He said, I should have fed those dogs. I mean, he said, what happens when he's 25 years old?

He's 18 years after he's, you got a grandson. You're so excited. And he says, dad, I just can't get over not feeding them dogs he said by this time the guy's looking at him he gets he said what would you think about that he'd say i think he didn't believe his daddy which i thought was a brilliant point because it really comes back to it's a faith issue yeah when we can't believe it's just too good to be true because we're just too bad well we keep thinking you got to get yourself cleaned up before you can go out there and show god off and the fact is he uses us despite our flaws he forgives us. We're honest about it. We confess our sins. It's the old legalistic approach. Jim McGregan had it right. Uh, legalism. It's a killer. It's a killer with that Irish brogue.

It's a killer. And he's right. He's right. But it's amazing because people still want to go back and put themselves under law. So by the way, thank you for the question. We weren't trying to beat you up over it. We just wanted to understand a lot of people struggle. I was. I was. I was. throwing haymakers. But Jason, he likes to beat people. No, I'm kidding. No, we love it.

You're all right, you're all right, my man. Whoever sent that in. Embrace the grace, man. It's so much better to live under grace. People that have come out of that thinking they're doing it and they accept grace and take a deep breath. It's one of the greatest deep breaths you'll ever take.

Oh, it's fantastic. Of saying, you know what? I'm bad and God loves me anyway, and he wants to use me. And he's going to forgive me. yesterday, today, and forever. I love it. Great question.

Great podcast.