Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 358 | Why ‘Church Hurt’ Is a Problem That Many People Encounter & Why We Shouldn’t Disown God

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

Jase gives a speech in the former raccoon capital of the world, and Al remembers the time he spoke in Intercourse, Pennsylvania. Zach shares his experience with “church hurt” and how it shaped his spiritual journey. Jase and Zach explain the importance of grace for a listener’s wife who struggles with her faith. Phil highlights the importance of gathering with likeminded people to grow your faith. And Jase discusses one crucial reason we should never disown God. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we are officially in October now. Is it October? It's October. It doesn't feel like October. It's still a little bit warm here. I was thinking August, maybe 8 July. But you've been on the inside, lounging back on your couch,

reminiscing about how much money I made on the stock market. Negative. If you continue that particular lifestyle, you won't know what month it is. Yeah, Jay's is always a month or two behind. When fall gets here, you're unaware of it because fall to you means that you invested in the raw company. I was actually recreating the moment. Spring is spring forth and get rich.

It's actually recreating the moment in Jeremiah Johnson. I thought we were playing that game this morning, but I see that we're not. Getting personal. I've cut a lot. All is cool in the morning, leaves beginning to turn the opposite of spring when the creation bursts forth. Now the leaves are beginning to turn yellow and orange and red, and you could just go out in the middle of it, which you don't do here lately. You've been watching the computer, mark it up and down.

I'm watching the leaves fall, and the leaves come and they begin to fall, and I'm saying, man, are we in October yet? Somebody finally says, it is October. I'm like, yesterday. I saw on the move. I saw about that wad of Woody's you scared up during tail season. I saw them come out of there day four yesterday. I'd say about 250 strong now.

Few ducks mixed in with them, few teal, but mainly Woody's. If you keep scaring them off, they may leave. I'm 300 and 400 yards away looking way. looking way down there. I'm brushing the pipeline floater with no help from you, my son. Well, I was in Ohio. I'm sensing a... October, Jace, remember blind brushing month.

I said I was in Ohio. I was actually in Missouri this weekend. Well, they're close, Jay's. They're in the same country. When I got back from... Well, I know why I said Ohio, because this was the second most interesting event I had of the year.

Uh-oh. Yeah, the first one was the Amish. When you run down the tractor, yeah. Well, and look, old Melvin, he sent me a letter from the tractor ride, from the Amish people. And I think it must have taken him three months to write this letter. It was that long. It was hilarious. I've never laughed so hard at a letter.

And he showed me all the work he does. I mean, look, the guy's a talented guy. So I got a. What line of work is he in? woodworking. Any, they actually help build the arc display. Oh yeah, he was in on that. Really?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So. That thing is incredible. I mean, it will take your breath away when you first see it, that how big it is. I should have brought that and read some of some excerpts in it. Well, it was a really funny letter because I,

he got a kick out of my opening line, which is, because, you know, Amish people for the most part, don't use electricity, nor do they watch TV. But when I stood up in front of that crowd, I could tell they knew who I was. So my opening line with somebody is breaking the rules around here. Because if you know who I am... Did they laugh or groan?

They laughed. So then I thought, yep. So he put in there, he said, yeah, just so you know, you were right about watching the TV. He said, what I would do is go. rent a hotel room so I could watch your show. I thought, now that's being a fan. When you're renting, because you think of all the mischief going on on why people temporarily

rent a hotel room by the hour. So let me get this straight. To watch that. You're going to go rent a hotel room and go in and watch our show. In secret. Yeah. That's fun. But I think, you know what?

Okay. So I had no plans to talk about that. But I was in Missouri, and the reason it was second most interesting, this was the man camp. Well, you know, a lot of these things I go to, they'll call it something like that. And then you go and you're in the middle of town. I've heard Man Cave not knowing what they're talking about, but I've just heard that. But I've never heard Man Camp. Yeah, they kind of challenged by manhood.

little bit just like with Texans like what is it bringing the women with you the card they'll be well they said no women but when I got up I looked around and I thought there's about four or five women here that didn't get the memo or or we're we're dealing with some kind of midlife crisis here you know with our culture you never know but so that was mostly men and but it was out in a field they had a tent tents everywhere and then we were like in a amphitheater tent they had all their tents around this big tent so we're out in the woods in a field kind of kind of in town was there a fire beds of fire ants over 20 feet oh no but they had fire they had fires they had fires i didn't

i didn't see any notice any ants was it cold you know no no But it wasn't like here, but it was, I would say it was warm. I spoke. So what was the purpose of the men gathering there? Well, I'll tell you this, the guy that picked me up. If they brought you into it, kind of as the lead singer, if it had been a hillbilly concert, rock concert, but they brought you in. Why?

Well, I didn't know. But I only have one message. So I wasn't real sure. And so I asked a few questions, but the guy who picked me up, I've never seen the weaponry inside a vehicle like the display I saw. When I opened the door and look, he had a full-sized truck with a king cab. There was a weapon at hands reach in every possible place imaginable. You're explaining my truck. I've never seen, I would say there was at least 30 guns within hands rich.

Is it possible that he, when somebody whispered in his ear, Jason Robertson is coming? And he said, okay, time to get armed and heavily armed. I didn't know what to think about it. I mean, my first thing. I would have thought, why do you have so many weapons? Yeah, somebody is. No, I would have thought I'm with a wise man here. Yeah, well, that's what I thought.

I thought, well, I said, are we friends? Because I introduced myself, but he never even kind of acknowledged my presence. And so I thought, are we friends here? But so I felt pretty good if a fight broke out. So I didn't know, but, you know, went in doubt, shared Jesus. They did have a great worship team that sang in front of me. So I thought, okay. So I introduced Jesus, but I did a little, I asked the guy, the weapon guy,

I said, what is this place famous for? And he said, well, it's the raccoon capital of the world. The coon capital of the world. That's what he said. And I thought, huh, I don't believe that. So I looked it up. I thought we had that down here. So I looked it up as, as he's talking on my phone and I put in the town.

And look, here's what it said. It was like, had a lot of information in the late 1800s about the town. and then it fast forward and it says the town was formally known as the raccoon capital of the world and I thought when did he didn't say formally he said this is the raccoon capital of the world but they've killed all the raccoons the social what an accolade for our town boy I'm not sure if this is fake news but somebody put in there because you know these wikipedias and all that's just somebody putting that in there. They put the word formally,

which made me think of that guy, Prince. Remember, he was Prince, and then he was the artist formerly known as Prince? Yeah, yeah. So I didn't know if it was a transition. So then I looked at what else

had happened in that town, and look, since that late 1800s, the only thing they had in there was they got a sonic drive-in in 2017. And in this current year, someone stole a purple dinosaur from the kids playground that turned into a community search and they all banded

together looking for the for the purple dinosaur when I brought up the purple dinosaur in the speech the place came down I mean just I said look I don't have you purple dinosaur that was the line I used well was that Barney wasn't Barney I don't know Zach you've got kids it wasn't the Barney a purple dinosaur I didn't know who's missing in Missouri He's missing in Missouri. So it's a coon. The most coons ever, the town is named after coon. We have the most raccoons on planet Earth.

Formerly. And now there's a purple, what? Dinosaur. I think it's a playground. I mean, these people are hot about it. They're mad, which I thought, is that why we got all the weaponry? People are stealing our kids, purple dinosaurs. Was it kind of like a statue of a dinosaur?

I think so. I think so. They just made them mad that somebody come into a school playground and stole this. And they can't find it. There's no leads. There's no. So anyway, so my opening line was, you know what I've gathered from this dissertation? There's not a whole lot going on around it.

So I launched from there. Did they laugh or did they moan? All they laugh, it was a great crap. But people had, oh, yeah, that was the best joke. told because they're all, that's what they've been talking about, is the purple dinosaur. Oh, yeah, they knew about it, because I didn't care if it bombed or not. What else am I going to talk about? I'm out in the middle of the woods at a camp, and my assistant, she said, I'm going to stay

in the truck. I said, okay, because, you know, it's Missy's aunt. She didn't want to come out there. No, she just said, I am not going out there. And I said, why not? She said, this is the redneck version of Woodstock. That was her impression. at the man.

So then I said that. I said, my sister said she's not coming out. From just hearing your lead in, there was a lot of truth in her words. I said, I don't know if it was because of the 50 weapons in the truck or just y'all, but she called this the redneck. It is really interesting. And having somebody a bunch of rednecks inviting Jason Robertson. I mean, thank you.

Well, who else would invite you. You went into a zone that you were completely unfamiliar with being around rednecks, right? That's what I'm saying. He was writing this. I loved it. He was in his wheel house. I love the whole experience. Yeah, it was not a negative face.

It's interesting because we get invited to a lot of places. I don't know, Jay's, you're probably like me. I don't really always kind of, like I try to look into it as I'm going like Jay's did so I can kind of connect at a local level. So we went to Pennsylvania a couple years ago and look on the sheet to see where we're going to be, the town. I'm kind of like Jason, I'm trying to kind of come up with some fact toys, look into it a little bit. and I see that we're staying,

we're speaking in some other place, but we're staying in it, and I thought it was a typo. It said, intercourse, Pennsylvania. And I looked over at least, I said, we're staying in a place called intercourse, Pennsylvania.

And she said, and you're doing a marriage? Yeah, well, I was actually preaching. And so she said, well, I don't know, that's what the thing said. Sure enough, we pull into this, and it wasn't very big, and it's kind of a four-way deal

right there in the middle, which, you know, now I find out what the word used to mean is just, you know, an intersection, basically. I mean, I think I would have just got up and said, what are the odds? I'm doing a marriage seminar in Intercourse, Virginia, or wherever it was called. Look, if that, if nobody laughed at that, you should just walk down and leave. Well, my first question, I did talk about it. My first question to the people putting on the event, I said, so you put us up in intercourse, Pennsylvania?

And they said, yeah, what do you think about that? I said, so why is it named that? Because we all know what that word means. And they said, well, the old word meant this. And I said, yeah, but that doesn't mean that anymore. And I said, have y'all thought about changing your town's name? And he said, yeah. But, you know, he said, the tourism is so good here.

People want to come here. And they've got all these, you know, hot tubs in the hotel. I mean, they've made a whole cottage industry off of their town being named intercourse. So every time somebody tries to really define it, they put their fingers in their ears and go, So they gave us t-shirts that said, I heart intercourse, comma, PA. Of course, you know, you look at that. I'm not wearing that.

When you read it, it looks like it says, I love intercourse paw, you know, because PA is pa. So we actually wore it at some event we did, and it was quite stir. So there you go. So how many people were at this event, Jay's? A couple hundred, 300.

You want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. I would say, yeah, a few hundred. Look, there was a couple guys that had driven from Ohio that looked like, well, I was going to say Sye's brothers, but that would be you included. But you and Sye don't really look like brothers, so that's getting awkward. And I kind of had, you know how I look for these godly encounters? So they actually did a meet and greet at the church building. So about 50 of them, 50 of the guys, I'm sure they charged some money or what.

I don't know what that was all about. But we were over at the church building, and we did a little meet and greet. And one of the encounters, because I looked for these kind of godly encounters, which I did think it was impressive, these two guys drove over 10 hours to be there. And there were several other people from various far off places. Were they a podcast listener, Unashay? A lot of them are. Well, the one guy I'm going to tell you about,

because the guy, he drove five hours just to ask me a question. He's like, listen to the podcast. And I thought this was a good question. It was a real tough question to answer in a meet and greet. But I could tell he was distressed. But he said, here's my situation. I got three little kids, three, two, and one. I went, oh, I see what you got going on.

here. He's been to Pennsylvania. Do the math, yeah. And he said, but my wife, he said, you know, before she came to Jesus, she just, she was in a rough lifestyle. He said, and she looks rough. She got tattoos

everywhere. But the churches that she was involved in when she was a kid were all, and he was trying to find the word, you know, and I said, legalistic. He's like, well, they just, it was like real rule-oriented and kind of mean-spirited.

I was like, oh, yeah, I get it. We've been there. He said, so now, here's the deal. He said, she loves the Lord, but she doesn't like to, she doesn't want to go to church. She just doesn't want to go. But I'm looking at my three kids, and I'm thinking, I need all the help I can get. I want these kids to grow up in that environment. What do you recommend?

in. So I wanted to know, now we talked about it. I didn't come across like, oh, I'm an expert. I know how to do this because I sympathize with his situation. But what would you tell someone like that? Well, I would, I immediately thought of first Peter three, which is Peter aims at a wife, but you could make the same application to a husband. It says, if, you know, if you're married to an unbeliever, then, and I'm paraphrasing, but your goal should be

to live as exemplary life as possible. But she's a believer. Yeah, so what was, I missed the first part. She just won't go? Well, she's a believer, but she looks rough just because, you know,

in her, before she came to Jesus, I mean, he brought basically, from what I understood, brought her to Jesus, and she loves, Jesus, but she's had some bad experiences in the past pre-Jesus. So she's done with like organized religion. Well, but I still think it's important. He's right.

It's important for your children. You don't have to be associated to a church to teach them, but they do learn at a good level. I mean, most churches, the one thing that most churches are good at is teaching children and, you know, them learn the Bible in a way that they can get it. So I think you need all the help you can get with your kids. Well, built into the Bible, since you've been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above where Christ is seated at the right end of God.

Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you die, your life is now hidden in Christ. You look down the bottom of that, therefore. So she would have to read this to understand the Bible takes for granted that you will interact with like-minded individuals. Therefore, as God chosen people, holy and dearly love, clothe yourself with compassion, that's for others. Kindness, that's for others.

Humility, that's for others. Gentleness, that's for others. And patience. Bear with each other. forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. I'm just simply making a point, Jase, for her. Forgive us the Lord forgave you and over all these virtues put on love, which is interaction for your neighbor along with God,

that binds them all together in perfect unity. If he's going to write that, if he's going to tell the Colossians, the church there, interaction between them was evident. You will have to interact. You will, in fact, gather with like-minded individuals, Jesus number one. And this is how you to treat each other. But if that's the case, and sometime you say, well, how much organization does it take to get 40 people under a roof or at your house or next door?

So how are you going to fulfill all these texts about how you operate with others if you're not, with others. You're right. Other words, it's being a little selfish to not interact with people of the same belief system that you're is. Jesus, number one, he's our superman, he's our super natural. But his point was noted that there are going to be people.

I said, I think I would look for a grace-based church number one. I was thinking that, too. I said, look, if you venture, the two groups that I meet with the most in our hometown, I mean, half the people in there look like your wife. She's thinking go to organized religion. I'm trying to get through you, my answer to you for her, is, girl, you need to realize you come out of a tough past. Now that you've been one of the chosen by God and you're a member of his body, this is not just on Sunday morning for two hours going somewhere.

this is who you interact with in a positive way with all these qualities on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday and Saturday. And if you even show up on Sunday anywhere, somewhere in your life, you have to put others' needs ahead of your own. That's what I'm saying. If Jesus had done this, well, I don't know what I want to hang around that much or not. Well, we would be in a sad state.

Well, I agree. What I did was I used the analogy in 1 Corinthians 12. You got to remember. I said, I think you're looking at it wrong. You're looking at it like, oh, I need to go to church. So I kind of went through that deal about you don't go, you are. We're the body of Christ. We have the Holy Spirit. I said, and, you know, Paul gave an analogy that we're like body parts put together. I said, so it doesn't make sense to have your index finger on the table and the rest of you are somewhere else. I said, we know, there's parts of your body that you. you don't like or that could be better or, but that, where the body? This is all you got.

You were sent to Missouri with this overarching teaching. Since then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, life and death is he is for us. He gives you life or death. We try to persuade men. Well, that has to be acted upon somehow in each person's own life. you're in a zone to where you're trying because you fear of God and your love for him and you look at what he's done, life and deaths on the table, immortality or eternal damnation, and you say, because of that, we fear the Lord and we try to persuade men. Well, you can't persuade them if you never interact with them. Right out?

You have a good point. We fear God, but we don't. We're not afraid of people because I think she's afraid of what people think. even where we're at in our study in Matthew, when he sends out the trail. Well, obviously, Phil, but I'm saying it's understandable because she came from a legalistic background. She comes to Jesus.

And look, I think there's a lot of people who... Well, that would be my message for him to help her is that you have to look at grace. It's not just what you receive, because she's been forgiven of her sins. She had a rough past. But look, grace received, then becomes grace extended. And that includes to legalistic background, to churches.

I mean, what I went to, James. We were part of some places that were pretty legalistic, but I don't hold that against them. I mean, like, I still learned some good things from those experiences. It wasn't great. I wouldn't want to repeat that myself. But you have to extend grace both ways. If you're going to receive it, you need to be able to offer it. So that's what I would challenge for her.

That would be 2nd Corinthians 5 and 6. She needs to read that Hang on, is that, let's take a Hang on is that. Yeah, let's take a break. Part of the problem is we, I think in the church

we come into it with a consumption mindset. So we view church is something that we go to to consume worship or we consume the sermon and we're spectators in the audience

and you've got the, whatever the show is and we're consuming it. But I think primarily the church, The church, there is an organized church in scripture. It's difficult to get away from it, no matter how bad you've been hurt by it. And we've all been hurt.

We all got church hurt. I mean, I've got my parish here in church heard as well. And, I mean, my dad was fired twice from the ministry once in the late 70s for bringing black kids to church in the late 70s in North Florida, which is unacceptable, I guess, in that time period. And then second, when I was in sixth grade, my dad was fired from a church in Gainesville, Florida for honestly just preaching the gospel. of grace. And the church is very legalistic and they ran him off and there's a lot of abuse. And you know, you hear about pastors abusing children and manipulating people. And you see all that. We all kind of come to the table with some kind of hurt. But I think what I've learned over the years is that church primarily is formative. It's to form us into the image of Christ. And so we come

together in a community. I mean, I think about the times that we've had it. the church I grew up in in Louisiana with you guys and taking that communion every Sunday. And people are, why do you do it every Sunday? Doesn't it get old? And sometimes maybe it gets virtualistic. But man, I think about Paul Stevens up there telling a story about his son,

Zach. I think about, you know, just there's so many memories of people up there talking about what the communion means to them. And if you're not coming and participating in that as a body, not only are you missing out, but the church is missing out to Phil's point.

and Jason's point, the church is missing out from what you would be bringing to that community. That's it. I mean, I don't know how you do it without a community. It'd be tough. And he mentioned children, and you know how that important. Zach, your kids are great. But I think part of the reason they are is more than just you and Jill. I think it's the input of being around so many other great people and great Christians that

fed into their lives. And now they get the opportunity to feed in other people's lives. That's what really it's all about. I mean, in terms of having community. No, no question. This on Sunday at our church, one of our pastors, the way we do church here is we have elder-led church. We don't have a lead pastor, so we kind of rotate through.

The elders rotate through and teach and preach. And this Sunday, one of the elders was talking about an experience he had in Waffle House. And he goes in a Waffle House and he sits down and he sees this guy walk in. And he said, I didn't know, I've never talked to this gentleman before my life, but I knew 100% certainty that this guy rides a Harley. The way he looked, the way he was dressed, the whole nine yards. And then he talked about CrossFit people. You know if somebody's in the CrossFit by how they act, what they wear,

and what his point was is that once you have a desire and a love for something, you're going to get into that community. And then that community is going to normalize whatever the behavior is. And CrossFit, it's pushing your body to the point of death. And then they're going to glorify that. Well, that's what the church does. the churches, you get into this community because you love Jesus, and then we shape each other by the grace of God to be more like Jesus. And when you hear people's stories, like Chad Johnson,

for example, when I see what that guy's doing in the kingdom, I mean, that tears my heart up in a good way to see what he's doing. Then I'm motivated to move forward in my faith with Jesus and to be more like Christ. I think that's the point. And you miss out on that, though, if you say, I'm not going to participate in it. Yeah. Well, the point I made, and I think that's all, I mean, it made me think because I thought this is a good question. Was in Matthew 5 when Jesus said in verse 14, you're the light of the world, a city on a hill

cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand and it gives light to everyone in the house. And so I think there's always a temptation to go way off in the middle of nowhere and say, I'm just going to cut myself off from the world for whatever reason or the church. But Jesus, and what we've studied in Matthew, is basically saying the exact opposite. Even when you come to Matthew 10, I mean, he's sending them out. this is this is we're out here right and that's what he calls us to do to not only look at people's needs

physically spiritually but to share how how great he is and i mean he did it and had conversations with pharisees and religious people the whole time but he wasn't afraid of them i noticed three times in his charge in matthew ten when he sent them out he said because phil brought up the point about we do have a healthy fear of God. And I've always said, we fear God because we know that he knows us and our flaws. Yeah. But we don't fear other people because we know God. We know that he's gracious and loving and righteous.

And I think it's a good way to look at. I think that, you know, the number one phrase in the Bible is, don't be afraid. But, like, number five is fear God. So people are confused by that. But I just noticed in Matthew 10, 26 to 31, three times he says, don't be afraid of them. There's nothing concealed. This is verse 26 of 10 that will not be disclosed or hidden that will not be made known.

So he knows everything that's ever happened and that will happen and it'll all be revealed. When I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight. What is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs, which I'm saying is the exact opposite. of I'm going to go home and not move. Do not be afraid. There's the phrase again of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.

Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body and hell. And then he gets into this what you're worth. He says, you know, suppose two sparrows are sold, yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. And so then he says it again. So don't be afraid. You're worth more than many sparrows.

So, I mean, he knew when you go out into the world, things are going to happen. When you go to church buildings, things are going to happen. I mean, because I got to thinking about it. She's fearful of what other people think. But all she is in her heart is what her newfound faith is. And so if Jesus was worried about that, he never would have done any of this. Let's take another break. Jesus displayed that same exact.

He embodied what you just said, Jason. John 16. I was reading this this morning. Let me think about that. Because he's on the brink of death, and he's telling his disciples, like, I'm leaving. And you guys are going to be left here. I'm not going to leave you alone.

I'm going to send the Holy Spirit. The counselor's coming. I mean, he's getting ready to die. Jesus is. And I love this part right here in John 16, 32. It says the hour, but hold an hour is coming and has actually already come for you to be scattered each to his own home and to leave me alone. So Jesus is about to be completely isolated and completely alone, which is what the fear, particularly in our culture of persecution is that we'd be marginalized and left alone. But I love what Jesus says about himself.

He says, I'm about to be alone, but he says, and yet I am not alone because the father is with me. And I think that like it doesn't mean when you, we do have anxiety from persecution. I mean, Jesus was sweating blood here, you know, in the garden. But at the same time, like his something overrode that fear. And I think what it was was that he knew that he had a father, an eternal father that was never going to abandon him and it was never going to leave him. And it was in that holy triune relationship, this unadulterated love that Jesus found really that Jesus found his identity, his self, everything was found in that relationship.

And so I think he models that kind of fearlessness for us right before his own crucifixion by fixating on who his father was and being in a relationship with him. And don't you think he really gives us an expectation of persecution? Look, I'm all about religious liberty and religious freedoms because you hear this a lot in our culture today. but whether we got those or not, I mean, the Constitution guarantees, but whether we get them or not, it doesn't matter whether we're going to do what we've been told to do by Jesus, right? I mean, I expect persecution to come.

So if people are going to get after you because you're speaking truth into the culture, then you're doing exactly what Jesus told you to do. What the Apostle Paul told the Philippians is worthy of note. He says there'll be partners in the gospel from the first day into now, He said, which is great. You are down below there. I'm in Philippians 1, verse 7. Whether I'm in chains or defending and confirming the gospel.

First, it was partnership in the gospel. Well, it's seen defending and confirming the gospel. This girl can have great fruit will come. Down at the bottom, what happened to me really served to advance the gospel. That's verse 16. then you get over there the latter do so love knowing that I'm put here

for the defense of the gospel well and you get down whatever happens conducts yourself in a manner worthy of the gospel stand in one spirit contending as one man for the faith of the gospel

well somewhere in everybody's life they need to get off the thing about organized I don't want organized religion say what you will if the purpose and in these epistles to the Colossians, to the Philippians, to the Ephesians.

And he was stated here, whether I live or die, I want Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or death. Now, he's died. They murdered him. We're here 2,000 years later reading his writings, and we're looking at it saying, whether by life or death, for to me to live as Christ, to die, as gain. He said, so while I'm here, watch.

If I go on living in the body, this girl needs to know this. This will mean fruitful labor for me. She needs to realize all God ask of her is fruitful labor, little girl, fruitful labor, where people are persuaded. Maybe there is something to this God thing. So we all come together as one, pointing people to Jesus. Well, we have to do it. if we all do the same thing, I would say it's pretty well organized. Well, you say, Zach, it's an organized spiritual organization,

each one looking after the other's needs as we get along with each other, reach out to our neighbors. Well, at some point, that's got to be done in some fashion. Exactly. I thought about this second, Timothy, too. you know in 14 he's talking about people who come in and they're teaching falsely and in verse 16 he's like avoid godless chatter because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly and and then he's like their teaching will spread like gangrene and then he has a couple of examples

of guys who have wandered away from the truth they say the resurrection has already taken place and they're destroying the faith of some so it's kind of the same situation that he's referring to. So the point I want to get at is that 19, he kind of gives you the foundation for how you view that, though. He doesn't say, so separate yourself from them, or he says, remember, God's solid foundation stands firm sealed with this inscription. The Lord knows those who are his, which kind of mirrors what we're reading in Matthew 10 about,

do you not think your worth to God has not been proven? I mean, that's the way. He said, when two birds hit the ground, he knows it, knows how many hairs are on your head. And so now he says, the Lord knows those who are his, which I love that. And then it says, everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness. And I think the line in the sand of that is kind of what Zach referred to about the abuse by pastors.

You know, once wickedness is embraced. in church settings. Okay, what's time to rethink where we're going? But all this other stuff, you're never going to find a perfect church because it's made up of imperfect people who have put their faith in Jesus. So you're always going to be offended by somebody, which is why Jesus spent so much time talking about how you respond when people offend you because it's going to happen.

Well, and to Zach's point earlier, you're always, how many times are we warned by Jesus and later by the epistle writers that there will be wolves that come into the flock to take advantage to, you know, all the things that Zach you mentioned earlier. So you've got to have an expectation that Satan still works. It's just, it's like anything else, it's a lot harder when you have a unified community for him to do as much damage as he would do individually to somebody who didn't have a support system. So that becomes part of the system. And dad, And I think you and mom show that. You know, you're at the point in life.

We're doing this podcast. You've got another show in the woods. You talk about the Bible all the time. You impact a lot of people. I got a note this week from a woman that said, you know, just listening to your dad has totally changed my life because of listen to the word. But yet you still feel it necessary to go up on Sunday and be a part of a little group there that you're helping out and provide a place for people to come.

Recharge. Right. So what I'm saying is it is important, I think, for all of us to recognize both. And that really, Jay's you're right. That's really what Matthew 10 is about, is about having a mission mindset. Let's take our last break. And that's what this was. I drive one time a week, and it's basically the order of the weeks and the months.

Get in the rig, drive to town, go in. We have a big meal prepared. The homeless are there. The down-trodden are there. different ones from all over the United States are in there. I'm there just to help them, reach out to them, let them know I love them. Glad you all are here. If I don't interact with them somehow, and a lot of them are converted because they said,

you know, I just, I need to get on track. We talk about it. They're dealing with their sin. I'm just there to help. There's no money changing hands. There's no plate being passed. We're just doing it. and trying to help out of my fellow man,

it's got to be done somehow. The world's in a mess, that's for sure. Yeah, I would say this, no matter how big your global ministry is, nothing can take the place of the local church. There's nothing. And I love watching you, Phil. I love watching you meet with that body of believers every week.

And it's not a mega church. It's just a faithful ministry that you're doing locally, that I think, but it's funny how much of what you're doing in the local church, and really all of us, what we're doing locally bleeds out into the discussions that we're having here where, you know, or millions of people are hearing this every month. And you think, well, man, where's this, where's all this material come from? It's coming from the fruit. It's the fruit of what's already happening locally. And there's just no substitute for that. You know, local, local bodies meeting together, the local church. She needs that girl needs to remember, we're not a denomination.

we're just the kingdom of God operating within a so-called democratic republic. We're just showing them Jesus in the midst of all that. But we're actually acknowledging Jesus before, man. I mean, you're publicly identifying yourself with being owned by Jesus, which in that Matthew 10, it made me think it was really what he was saying. Anyway, you know, in verse 32, he says, whoever acknowledges me before men, I mean, he just said three times, don't be afraid of what other people think. He's like, whoever acknowledged me before men, I will acknowledge him before my father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before me, I will disown him before my father in heaven, which he mirrors.

Pretty simple. Paul to Timothy mirrored the same thing in that chapter two when he said, if we died with him, him, we'll live with him. If we endure, we'll reign with him. If we disown him, he'll disown us. If we're faithless, he'll remain faithful, which is why you should pursue a grace-based group of people. So, and then, I know he got it from Jesus in Matthew 10, because then he gets into that, don't suppose I came to bring peace, but a sword, because what happens when you acknowledge Jesus before men, well, you're going to have conflict in your family, and the group of people that you're meeting with on Sunday morning and people in the world,

people who disagree with you. But then he gets down and says, I think 38 is the key phrase, because it mirrors what Second Timothy about dying with Jesus, but he says, that anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses it loses his life for my sake will find it, which I wish I would have just said, because I think ultimately when somebody is at that stage of their faith, they got to realize it's not about you. That's right. You know, we get out there and we put ourselves in public places to acknowledge Jesus,

we're going to be persecuted. You're not going to like everything there, but it's not about you. You're trying to. Yeah, it's not pleasant. It's not pleasant. I'm glad you brought that part up about the he didn't bring the sword for nothing. And I didn't come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. I caution, though, on that, that I've seen people use this verse to be divisive as an excuse to go in and blow things up.

And that's not what he's saying, especially when you read the last part of that verse, it's about taking up your cross and father. following me is what Jesus is talking about. It's not something that we're motivated to tear down God's church, to be divisive, to be angry. And this is something that he's telling people, hey, man, if you follow me, it's going to be a sacrifice. It's going to hurt. You're going to lose family members. There's going to be people that are angry at you. But it's not a, I don't think what Jesus is saying here is, I want you to go, you know, storm the capital or I want you to go, that's not what he's talking about. You know, he's not talking about that kind of behavior. He's talking about a sacrificial, humble life that when people see you, man,

this is the humility that's going to offend them. You know, not you in their face trying to rip them apart, you know? Yeah, you're right. The division comes because of who you are. And remember, this whole context, he's presenting this whole new look at the kingdom. We've been talking about this whole book of Matthew. So what's going to happen is people that have viewed it another way, there's where the friction comes in because now it's like I follow Jesus and so they're going to kick him out of synagogue

they're not going to let them come to the temple they're not going to let them make sacrifice that's what he's talking about is that it's more for your stand of who you are well I think that's why he started off with the sermon on the mount with those attitudes because those false teachers out there running around they don't possess those qualities

that's why I said that if you that's that's the true test I mean you look at false teachers and you say they're poor and spirit negative right they're usually loud and cocky yeah they're uh they mourn no the last thing you're gonna do they're outrage you know over something they're meek no they're hungering and thirsting for righteousness i mean i just picture somebody which when you when you really think about what he was zero and in on is somebody out there clawing around on the ground looking for water or food, that's how we are with God.

Desperate. Yeah, we're desperate for his righteousness. This just doesn't come across like the false teachers that you encounter. Right. I agree. And that sets the whole stage for it. We just got a little bit of time left. I want to mention Jason is talking about being in Missouri this week.

Lees and I are going to be on the road. So we've got so many unashamed out there, I always like to let you know in case you in the area. I'm going to be in Leesburg, Virginia on Thursday night. It's an event called Pray Vote Stand, and you can go to FRC.org for information about that. Then we're on to Boston, Massachusetts. We're actually going to be speaking in Kingston, Massachusetts. I've never been to Massachusetts. I'm really excited about that. And this is the Restoration Community Church, RRC Kingston.org. We'll give you intel on that. So we love it when you guys come out and we get to see you and just like this whole podcast really jays has been about a conversation that jays had with

a listener because and you made a good point jays if if you get a question from people i realize that because we have such a lot of large audience then there are other people thinking for having some of the same issues and we like that because that's what's what drives our bible discussion you know it was funny because my assistant you know she gets paid to move the line along yeah but he asked me that question, and I could tell he was distraught. He'd driven five hours. I mean, it was a, it was a, you know, I called it a godly encounter because I could just sense that he was just distraught about this. And he thought, what is my move? I'm going to go ask this guy, Jace, I read on Facebook, he's going to be in town, Missouri. I mean, I just went through the practical motions of him being there.

And I thought, this was a leap of faith. I'm paying the money. I'm paying the extra money for the VIP. I'm driving the five hours. I'm going to have the conversation. So every time my assistant would try to move the line along, I was like, wait, because I wanted to have this conversation. I thought, I can tell this guy cares about his family. And he's trying to lead his family. You know what it was? Jay said it was the story we told last week on the podcast about the guys that lowered the guy through the roof. It was like, we're going to find a way to get there because we know what our friend needs. And Jesus said because of their faith, you know, this guy winds up getting healed.

I thought if we had a bunch of guys out there driving five hours to have a conversation about how they could lead their family to Christ in a closer way, I mean, you want to talk about changing the world. Yep. There you go. I like it. All right. We're out of time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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