Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 381 | Phil Rips Into Our Satanic Schools & Why Christians Can't Engage in Identity Politics

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Jase recalls the very Jase-like marriage advice he gave his brother. Phil and Jase lament that schools have become centers for indoctrination into wickedness and evil. Al notes that MLK Jr.'s dream is no longer the goal in our culture, and Zach explains why participating in identity politics isn't biblical. The guys discuss why children are the greatest in the kingdom. Zach highlights the sudden change that happens the day kids turn 13. And the guys talk about dealing with past sexual abuse. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So once again for the fourth podcast, I'm coming from Austin, Texas. Tonight I'm speaking down here. Lees and I are speaking in Burnett, Texas, and not Burnett, Burnett, Texas. Mike Brock is sitting in watching today. Mike, thank you for his son is the pastor at this church that they're letting me use this room. That's his father-in-law. So they allowed me to be here, which is great. And so I'm looking at Zach coming in from North Carolina,

and I realized, Jay, did you not get the memo out that we were supposed to wear green shirts and green hats today for the podcast? I thought y'all are trying to be Twinkies. We're starting to new uniforms. We're not trying to be Twinkies. There's a difference in me and y'alls. I know your wives lay out your clothes every morning. for you to wear, which is fun.

Yeah. No, it's even a step further. She dresses me. That's, you know. But by the way, so today, speaking of wives, today is my 37th anniversary. So I was married on November 9th as the day we're filming today, 1984. And so I asked at least this morning, we'll come up, you know, happy anniversary. Of course, we're working.

You know, it's what happens after a lot of years. You're just working on your anniversary. No big deal. So I said, do you remember waking up this morning 37 years ago? What were you thinking? She said, well, I was excited. I was getting married, you know, and we'd finally patch things up with her family. They weren't coming to the wedding.

And, you know, that's a long story. But so we patch things up. They're actually coming to the wedding or dad's going to give her way. Dad, you were in Arkansas selling duck calls because, you know, I asked Lisa to marry me one Friday to the next Friday was the wedding. So it was a little bit of a short engagement. We were at the point in our relationship because we were, you know, we both turned our lives around. And our biology was beginning to overtake our theology. And so, you know, we decided the apostle Paul said, hey, it's better to marry than burn with passion.

So we were going to get married anyway. So we just did it from one week to the next. But we, I've told the story before, we were all going to the wedding and Paul's car. and it's, you know, a little bitty car, I mean, was the plan, but Lisa had a car. There were Paul and Lisa had put some kerosene in the car, thinking it was gasoline. So it was an old Ford, white Ford LTD. I don't know if you remember that old car, dad. It was big.

I remember. And so I took off early to get to the wedding in the old Ford. Well, it made it to about where the pipeline is now on Leanding Road, that long stretch. Trying to run on kerosene. Trying to run on kerosene. I noticed it was kind of coughing and sputtering. And I thought, man, what is wrong with this thing? Well, it played out about halfway up Lee and him.

And so mom's in there. Jay's Willie. John Gimber was with us. We had a whole pile in the car. And so here comes old Paul, grandpa, in the little blue Ford Fiesta, which would hold about three adults total because the gas prices were high back in the early 80s. and we all piled into that car about 10 of us hanging out the windows and everything else going to my wedding. So, I mean, I guess it explains a lot about kind of our upbringing that 37 years ago today,

I was just trying to get to the, you know, preacher's house so I could get married, but I did. And your engine was belching smoke. That's right. Yeah. And you think about that, look, that's almost false advertisement. They sell a Ford Fiesta. Fiesta, Spanish, for a party. And of all things that could happen in a Ford Fiesta,

party is the last thing. I mean, it's like a sardine can for humans to travel with no, there's no party favorites in any capacity. I never figured that out. Why would they call that a Ford Fiesta? Come have a party in this little tin can. It's a selling point. want, get in this, and it's party time.

False advertising. Yeah. Do you remember, Jase, whenever you would ride in the back of it, you could actually hear the gasoline sloshing in the tank? Like when he would back out, you could hear it. And it was that hollow inside that vehicle. Between the chain smoking that was going on in the front seat and the gas sloshing in the back seat, I thought, yeah, we're going to have a party on.

Yep. They're going to sweep up. up what's left of me on the road. I smell a little hint of rednecks here. Oh, it was more than a hit. I think the funniest thing I ever saw is when I, with traffic, had stopped to a standstill in West Monroe and people are going around, blowing our horns, chaos. There was cops coming.

And I look up and at the lead car going the wrong way. And one of those do not enters was the old grandpa in the fourth. Ford Fiesta. Yeah. With his hands up, like, what are y'all doing? So then you look away and whistle. Yeah. I wonder who that is.

I don't know. I've never seen that guy before my mind. Nothing to see here, folks. I remember the last time that Paul ever drove the family truck, we had an old blue Chevrolet truck, and Paul, and it had a column, you know, three-shift column. Standard-on-the- column. That's how I learned how to drive. Having that truck.

Me too. That's how learned. All of them had them hang up in the gears. Yeah, they would always hang up. If you could survive, you would learn how to drive. If you didn't learn how to drive, you would die. Yep. So for whatever reason, Paul did not have his car, so he took the truck.

Well, again, Jay's same description. There were people talking about that some old man was driving about 10 miles an hour with the engine just screaming because he drove all the way to town and back in first gear in that truck because it hung up and he couldn't get it up into second. A long line was following. They were cursing him. People are passing him just. Hand signals, you know.

He'd have to know it. He was just trying to say, low gear is all I got, folks. That's all I got. That's all they had. That's all they had. I don't think that engine was ever the same after that, Dad. I mean, that's 30 miles each way in first gear. That's probably not too good.

That's when a pickup truck, Chevrolet pickup truck, that was what that was, a C-10 Chevrolet, that's when you could buy one brand new for $2,000, $2,300. They're a little more than that now. Yeah. They really are in the last couple months. Inflation. Yeah. Inflation.

How do you remember the marital advice I gave you? Did you give me? Yeah, I gave you some. No, I don't remember that day. What was it? I said for any man that's getting married in the month of November has no idea what he's getting into. Why would you do that? Well, you were right there.

Because I was scouting for ducks, and I was like, I got to go to a wedding in November? Who would do such a thing? But it was before season. It was November. I know, but it was just the point of it. I was like, you shouldn't get married. Did I make the wedding? Nope.

You were selling duck calls. you missed it so you weren't there for the but you did I hate it I miss that yeah well I think you've been forgiven cats in the cradle no but you know what dad did he made it up to me because he when both my daughters got married I was doing the weddings you know for for them and so dad gave them away he walked he walked Anna and Alex down the aisle which was very undadlike. So I know that he was just, you know, making good on not being at my wedding. That's why he agreed to do that when they asked him. Well, that's better than giving you a crisp $20 bill the next time he saw you. Which is how much the whole wedding cost, by the way, Jace. $20 for the whole

set of $20. That's a low-cost wedding. So I wanted to read something before we get back into Matthew. This came from a listener. And I thought it was really interesting because I've seen this before or heard of it somewhere, but it really does kind of fit what we're trying to do. And this guy discovered it in some, I think he has a Bible degree or something. He discovered in some of his old stuff. It's called the Fellowship of the Unashame. And it's Romans 116. And it's from a guy named David G-U-I-N-N. He wrote this, but I want to read this because I thought this was really interesting and kind of really sums up a lot of what we're trying to do on this podcast. It says, I'm a part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have the Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have

stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ. I won't look back, let up, slow down, back away, or be still. My past is redeemed. My present makes sense. And my future is secure. I am finished and done with low living, sightwalking, small planning and smooth knees, colorless dreams, tame visions, mundane talking, or chitzy giving, and dwarf goals. I no longer need preeminence, prosperity, position. I no longer need promotions or plaudits or popularity. I don't have to be right, and I live my life by what God has given me.

My pace is set. My gate is fast. My goal is heaven. My road is narrow. My way is rough. My companions few. my guide reliable, my mission clear. And then I'll skip down to the end.

It says, I must go until he returns, give until I drop, preach until all I know, and work until he comes. And when he comes to get his own, he will have no problem recognizing me. My colors will be clear. So I thought it was pretty interesting. Well said. Well said by whoever wrote that years ago, I think that kind of sums up kind of the way we try to live our lives.

Wouldn't you agree? I agree 100%. So thank you for who. ever sent that to me. That's really good. I'm going to find a place to prominently put that up. Any other musings before we get into back into Matthew? Matthew 18 today is where we're at if you're following along. Well, we're down to today is Tuesday. So Tuesday, we're down, Jace, the countdown. Not this Saturday. Ten days. But the following ten days to duck season around here. That's a big day. Yep. We wait each year, an eager expanse.

of the fall migration of the Wiley Mallard. For the mallards to be revealed? Is this a take on Romans 8? We eagerly wait. The food supplies there. We got things planted that ducks like to eat. The water regime is getting there. We're pumping thousands of gallons a minute into the duck hole as I speak.

And the blinds are brushed, all 50 of them. So we are prepared, Jason, ready. And we've got transportation, mud motors ready, fired up, replace solenoids, chains of gas, transportation on the water. That's how it's all coming together. The goal of this year is survival. Just survival?

Just survive it. That's pretty good. Well, I mentioned, Dad, when I was in California, that to most people, you know, Christmas Eve is like an exciting time for kids or parents even, you know, thinking about the next day and their kids. I said, in my family, it was always duck season opening Eve where all the excitement was in that Friday night before Saturday morning was where it all began for the next 60 days. So I think you probably get as excited about that as a kid does about Christmas Eve. Miss Kay, your mother calls it the ordeal. She said,

When does the ordeal begin? I said, we about seven or eight days out. Get back out of the way because we're going to the woods for 60 days. Every day. I think she kind of enjoys it now, though, because everything finally moved out of her house. And so really, it all takes place and it really doesn't, you know, impact her like it used to. All the equipment is within the building we are seated in just outside the door. All the equipment, the four-wheelers of the Yamaha's, we're ready to go.

I have things in line. Transportation. Of course, I've noticed, Dad, that your little crew now with Stone in charge, Stone and the nurseman. The other day, they had the side-by-sides out. I've never seen this before. They had the pressure washers out. They're getting the mud and the dust off the vehicles. And, I mean, we're kind of taking this thing to another level in terms of, you know, getting ready for season.

I'd never seen that particular action. The day of duck season is a big, big event. It's almost, it's just, I'm longing. to get out there and the break a day, before the break of day, we sit there, drink a little coffee, and for the first ducks that will hit the hole, we're waiting on probably woodies, but gunfire is fixing to erupt, Jace. You're glad to be part of it? Yep.

What I've noticed is that the older everyone gets, the more valuable comfort is. So that's why they were washing out the wheel version. It becomes about, it's no longer about how many we get. No. Everybody's got to be comfortable. Comfort is king. Yeah. The older you get.

So like when you see ducks in an area where there's not a blind used to, I'd say, okay, we got six hours to get a blind there in the middle of the night. We'll go over there. But at this stage, you just say, well, I wish they'd have been in front of a blind. I hope they come over here. We're going to need some more decoys. So we violate the number one rule of duck hunting, which is it's not about duck calls, not about brush. You go where the ducks are. People have a hard time with that.

Willie always hated that when I said that in seminars. He was like, you need to put the number one thing as duck calls. I said, well, but it's not. That's way down the list. You need to go where the ducks are. Then you can blow a duck call and you're going to shoot them because they were coming there anyway. That's right. It makes you feel better about your duck calling.

Duck calls are ancillary. Let's take a break. All right. So duck season's coming. We're excited about that. We're in Matthew 18. And this is kind of the, at least how I outlined this section. This is kind of the end of this section where he's been kind of strengthening the faith of the apostles and getting them ready.

Because you kind of had that tent pole moment we mentioned in chapter 16 that dad preached on. that he says here's what's going to happen. And so he's reminded them at every stage. You know, as that, Dad, every time something has happened, he's reminded him again of what's coming. So he keeps saying it over and over and over again. And so in chapter 18, it's really interesting. I know Dad's got some thoughts about it too.

But I thought it was interesting that it was kind of, this whole chapter is a discussion between him and the 12. And the questions that they asked to sort of set up, what he had to tell them. And the first one was one that we've seen a lot. We studied John. We saw it a lot is who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Because, again, I think it betrays a little bit of their misunderstanding.

They're still kind of got this idea that Jesus is going to have this earthly kingdom that he's going to be in charge of. And they want to figure out, how's everybody going to line up on each side? Who gets to sit right next to the seat of power? Who's the big dogs? Exactly. Who gets to sit on either side? You remember there was a story, was it in John where John's mom goes to, John and James's mom goes to Jesus and said, hey, is it impossible that, you know, one can sit on one side and one can sit on the other? And so it's still kind of this concept of misunderstanding, and that's kind of what leads into this section. If I had been Jesus, which I'm not, but Al, it was right in front of them, but basically you read throughout the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, when he said, said when they ask him who's the greatest he could have cleared it up quickly by saying i am yeah you see what i'm saying exactly he's preparing them and he goes through this list of if you behave

and your behavior in the kingdom causes people to sin he repeats himself four times on what causes his people to sin. It comes from other people who get these wild things in their heads, and they lose the simplicity of it all, which is loving God and loving each other. You see what I'm saying? Right. Love God, love each other. Be like a child when it comes to evil and wicked things. Don't you think that is incredible. I mean, I even think in our modern culture, I mean, I try to stay out of politics. But the recent, the recent surge from the right is, in my mind, some of the principals that are listed in here,

because in our school system, you know, there's this big movement to teach things in brainwash in a way principles that are anti-godly. But that's what has people riled up parents because, you know, you send your kid off, and all of a sudden they're not teaching them. them how to think, but exactly what to think, and it's contrary to godly principles. And I really believe that, that it caused people to rise up. Because the seriousness of manipulating children, even today, we take that serious. Even if you let them live inside the womb. All right. It's one thing to survive. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you're, you're, you're,

just pouring some agenda into their minds that they're confused about, that is confusing. The education system has become an indoctrination centers of wickedness and evil. It's satanic. It's scary. It's what it is. But you forget the children is what I'm saying. I mean, of all things for him to bring up, they're innocent, they're humble, they use their imagination, they're given to trust.

don't really value anything as far as materially. You just think about you give a kid a $100 bill, and he's like, could have been a dollar. They don't care. And so all these qualities that are really good about kids, he's trying to get in your mind to go there and to say this is, this is how you need to be living in this world. Now, Jay, that's a really interesting point because, you know,

what you hear in most of the, you know, pushback across American, especially in some pockets of our country, you know, as you hear it more as being un-American, but you're right, it's really more ungodly because the concept that somehow, because of the color of our skin, whatever the color of your skin is, that that puts you in some place that you can't do anything about. That's as ungodly as you get. I mean, the tenet of the Christianity, is that there is no longer, there's no race, there's no male or female, there's no slave or free. And he goes through the whole list and the ideas in Christ, none of that should matter. And so when you're trying to, kids don't notice.

They don't know. When I was a kid, I never occurred to me what color the kid was I was playing with. That only comes out when someone brings it to your attention. Usually the parents saying don't play with it. of that kid or but y'all didn't do that so i didn't notice and they're kids kids are they get it yeah and unfortunately the adults a lot of times do i have said more than once simplicity rules keep it simple it's not complex it's not rocket science it's not some kind of it's just loving god and loving your neighbor how hard could it be

Well, it shows you the value of purity and innocence because that's the two qualities that kids have that adults do not. But you see the value of that on how they treat other people. If we all act like kids when it comes to race relations, well, that problem would be fixed. Solved. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things that we use the term it's ungodly, but really what we're saying is is that to embrace. race what's being the philosophy that's being propagated in school systems a lot in Virginia is what they ran on it's it's it's not just that it's ungodly it undermines the

very foundation of how we would ever know what the truth is because really if you bowl all this stuff down and and you get past kind of the terms of critical race theory and you know wokeism and all that whatever whatever terms we're using system system systemic racism. Yeah. Institutional racism. The real debate on it is who gets to determine the truth. That is where this whole debate boils down to who gets to determine the truth.

And what the framework that's being taught in a school system right now is that you divide people into two groups. Because it's not just race. It could be anything, right? Critical theory is broader than just critical race theory. Critical race theory is a sub. it's like a subcomponent of critical theory, which is you divide them into groups. Here's the two groups. Oppressor and oppressed.

And if you are in the oppressed category, then you're the one that gets to determine the truth. And so what we have there is just the same old humanism that's always been around. Phil, it's the movie that we did back in 2015 that nobody saw, unfortunately. the greatest movie nobody ever saw yeah I mean but that was the the main premise of that is that man is not the determiner of truth he can't possibly be the if it if it's on us to determine truth then basically what you're going to end up with is a power struggle where whoever has the most power is going to get to dictate everything and that's going to lead to ultimately tyranny which it always has throughout throughout history. And so, you know, the stakes are pretty high.

So when you look at this verse, I never thought about that, Jace, of what's going on in the school systems. I think the reason why they target the kids is because they are pure and they are vulnerable. And they are, they haven't been jaded yet. They're not cynical. So they're easy to manipulate and corrupt with some of this humanistic philosophy. you. But I think the encouraging part is is that I think that the people in Virginia are saying, we're not going to be gaslit anymore on these things. And so kind of encouraging, you know,

to see what's happening. And let's take another break. Would it be fair to say that no person ever born into this world, I mean, you have to be taught to be racist, whether you're taught in your home, you know, by your family or by somebody else, now taught in school. I mean, that's something you have to be taught. You're not born into this work. That was my point. When your kid, the kids don't realize it. Someone had an adult has to point it out, which then promotes the bitterness or hatred or whatever the crawl is. But I think, I mean, when Jesus, if you ever want to see the gloves come off, I mean, in verse five and six, I don't know how you could be any more blunt about how he viewed. Now, he's telling us to have these humility,

qualities like children, innocence, purity, searching, imagination, whatever you can come up. You can think of exploring, seeking, all these things that they do that we need to have as a pursuer of God. But then he says, and whoever welcomes a child like this in my name welcomes me, and if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. That is about as a graphic statement about causing children to sin that you could come up with. I mean, what a responsibility we have because it is up to adults to train your children in ways of that. And it follows that statement.

but help the world in general. Yeah, he said, woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin. Woe to it. That's not good to be in that camp, Jase. No, exactly. So in any kind of battle and war, the first thing you want to do is to try to get propaganda out there. And that's why you've seen this in the spiritual war. It goes through the education system.

of me, it was mainly you viewed it as colleges, but now it's trickling down to the little kids. Oh, yeah. And you're like, well, wait a minute. I mean, because used to, I thought people who homeschooled their children were kind of weird. Now I'm out there encouraging that. Yeah. And oh, that's not a bad plan. Not bad.

Because you're not real sure what they're hearing on a daily basis. And so you at least got to get involved and check it out and do the research and see what's going on. I mean, that's just the honest truth, where we're at in our society. It is. Yeah, and it all goes back to the ultimate lies is this whole concept of identity. And so it's funny when we talk about racism and our definition of racism is not the definition that they're teaching in schools anymore. I mean, even what you were saying, Jace, I mean, they would say, even to say that you don't see color, their argument is, well, that's racist. It's racist that you don't see, my color.

So it's interesting, though, that the argument that led to the abolishment of slavery that Lincoln employed, you know, was really was a call back to the Declaration of Independence, which basically says that we are created equal. And then that was the same argument that was used during the civil rights movement. You know, if you remember the Memphis Sanitation Worker Strike and they had these signs up, you can Google it, they got these signs. And I think it says, am I not a man? And the argument is, is I'm human. Like, I'm a human being just like you. How can you discriminate

against me? How can you treat me this way? Martin Luther King, Jr., a letter from a Birmingham jail, if you just read his argument, which is not a, I mean, it's a very philosophical argument. He's calling on guys like Thomas Aquinas and basically saying that a law is unjust when it denies a human of a humanity. That's not the argument that's being made anymore. What's funny is, is that argument is the argument that's being attacked now by some of these newer philosophy. They're not newer philosophies, but the philosophies that have emerged in kind of pop culture. But we got to stand in the, I think as Christians, we stand in the gap.

We're standing on the principle of Genesis 126, the Amago Day, which is that man is, we're all made in the image of God. So no matter what culture is thrown at us, you know, that's where we're standing. That's why it is important. I mean, we've homeschooled our kids. they're in a private school now. I've got one in public school. The one in public school, though, is very well equipped to handle some of these things. But, I mean, trust me what I tell you, I mean, they are trying to indoctrinate our children. There's no question about it.

And, Sat, don't you think that this current philosophy reemerged, you're right, doesn't it go directly again? I mean, didn't King want a colorblind society? I mean, the idea there was the content of character, is who you are. It's a merit. The idea was that it's it's not based on your color of your skin. His goal was that just what we were talking about would be recognized, which now is assumed to be racist by some of these folks. I just, I just, I find it amazing that in the span of 50 years that the current group of people that are pushing what they're pushing seems to go directly against the whole civil

rights movement from my perspective. I mean, is that fair to say? There's no doubt. I would, yeah, I would say so. And what shocks me is how many people in the church have adopted this. And it's, I mean, it has infiltrated the church. Yes. I think it's going to probably be the defining, but it's not about race.

That's the thing. Like, race is the current form of it. But, I mean, it goes into sexuality. It goes into gender. It goes into everything. And so when you look at critical theory, you know, and there's a term called intersectionality, which basically means that when you intersect at these points where you have a, quote unquote, disadvantage, whether it be race, gender, sexual orientation, the more levels

that you have, the more times that intersects, and the more power that you have in determining truth. And so, I don't know how the church is going to, if the church, well, the church is not, the real church would not adopt this because the real church, we've been talking about this. We believe that God reveals truth to us. And he doesn't discriminate it who he reveals that to. God eliminates our hearts. We're not the determiner of all things. And I think that's what it boils down to in the end,

is are we going to reject that kind of arrogance to think that somehow, you know, we're going to figure this out? The whole point of everything that Jesus is doing here is to tell people you're obsessed with power. You're obsessed with power dynamics. and look at the example that I've given you, I've became nothing. I took on the very nature of a servant. So the gospel, really the gospel of Christ stands in complete contrast to a philosophy that says it's all about accumulating power.

The gospel says, the gospel is the complete opposite of that. That's right. It's laying itself down. Which is why he's saying the children are the greatest in the kingdom. People are like, what? Great point. Great point. Yeah.

And to Zach's. point, it's truth. He said, I tell you the truth, unless you become like one of these and humble yourself like these are, which is exactly the opposite of everything we see today. Let's take a little break. That's why Dr. King came up with that statement about it is the context of character and not the color of your skin, because when we read the biblical analysis of it from one man he made all nations of men, well, that, all of a sudden that lumps everybody together, you know, and Christ. There's neither male and a female, Jew and a Greek.

I mean, Galatians 3 says that 1st Corinthians 12 over and over and over. And so I think from the worldly point of view, since they know what those verses say, that's why they say, well, we got to find something that disagrees with that. So that's why you get into these radical thinking. They say, well, you can't say we've got to be colorblind. Deceptive. philosophy. That's what God says. I mean, they got them all coming from God. We don't want that. Yeah, Phil, it's deceptive philosophy because Paul says the Colossians, too,

or what you're quoting there, because it depends on human traditions. That's right. And what's interesting there for the church, particularly probably people that listen to our podcast, is we've got to be careful that we're not the twin brother of this, because I've said this over and over again, like the hard, like nationalism, that is the twin brother of the critical theory, you know, woke left. They hate each other, but they're the twin brother because they're rooting identity in something that's not God. That's right.

And we're deriving truth from a source other than God. And so we're trying to stand in a gap here where we're saying we're not going to get into the, what what do they call it, the identity politics. Yep. Like we, that is, the believer can't participate in that. On the right or the left. We stand in the gap. We say, no, no, no.

We're, we are image bearers of a holy triune God. And we're going to reflect that in the way that we conduct ourselves in the world. So I do think that if, you know, as we engage the battle here for the church, I think the church has to say, we're not getting into identity politics. We're not going to do it. It's not biblical. But my point is, if you see who is true, and you go by this principle that Jesus just said, if you stuck 10 kids, say, five years old in a room with toys, and you got 10 adults from 10 different colors or nations or whatever you want to come up with,

which group is going to notice the differences? The kids aren't going to notice? I mean, they may have a scrap or two over who gets the toys. but it's not going to be a personal well wait a minute you're they're all going to just be kids and so that's why i'm said that's why jesus said that his his principle here lines up in reality what would happen in that world which by the way it paves the way for the whole rest of the chapter just to your point jays that what he described or people, because he's going to shift into how you act and how you get along.

And if you're like a kid, you know, they have a very easy, you know, way about being able to just move on past a dispute. You know, within five minutes, we're back playing again. We were just fighting earlier. He carries that same concept all the way through the end of this speech that he gives. That this is what that looks like. And plus, too, just even kid like, I mean, they are quicker to forgive. and forget and to show expressions of love. I mean, you see kids do it all the time.

They, you know, they hug and kiss each other, little kids. That's just what they do. They're not stopping and saying, oh, wait a minute, you're a different color from the last person that I hugged on the wet. They just don't do it. It's not in there. Of course, you'd have to be around kids to notice these things. Of course, that next section to add on the woe section from seven to nine

was kind of what you were talking about. He puts it in the context of the world. In other words, this is what's going to happen outside of people being believers. But he was pretty graphic in his, you know, I guess you would call it a hyperbolic picture of what you do. I mean, I'm glad he didn't mean literally cut your hand and gouge your eye out or we'd all be in serious trouble. We would not have hands or eyes as we sit here today. But it seems graphic, but it's not really if you believe. That's right.

If you believe that if you're going to live eternally forever with the people of God and God, if you lost, I mean, because people, unfortunately, do lose hands by accidents and different things. And they show resilience and they live life. And so, you know, I think he was just making a point for graphic reasons that compared to that your character and your eternal soul and your relationship with him, those things really pale in comparison, you know? So he just took an extreme view of that. So you're like, whoa.

I mean, oh, so should I literally go do that? He's basically zoning in on don't do what causes that. Don't do that. Yeah. Stay away. Stay away from that. And especially how it interacts with others because remember the whole context here is about kids. Because remember you look down to verse 10, he shifts gears and says, see to it.

You do not look down on one of these little ones. So he's still staying in that same context. He's got this kid that's standing with him as he's telling them all this stuff. For I tell you that there are angels in heaven always see the face of my father in heaven, which is a really interesting concept there. Let's talk about that. About guardian angels. Yeah, what about that?

as he brings that concept. I may be on an island, but I believe, you know, Jesus represents us in heaven, right? That's obvious, first John. So, and we're saved. Well, a child is safe. They're innocent, they're pure. So if something happens to a child, they're in.

They're safe. Straight ticket. Yep. Straight ticket. So I think it only makes sense that they have representation there. I wouldn't think that had I not read this, but it says you see that you don't look, that you do not look down on one of those little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my father,

which seems to imply the same thing he implied about causing one of the little ones to sin. It's not like he's not going to know it. I mean, he's all knowing anyway. but I believe they're represented by angels. And they know, which is fine, big picture, because he just had this vivid illustration and as painful as it is for a child to die, it's not painful long term because they're going to live forever.

They made it. And it may have been God's plan for whatever would happen in the future or it may be a result of evil attack or the very causes, that's what's happening here. but I just think he's given us peace and given us disciples peace that we're going to, these wrongs will be righted and they have representation. I believe that. So let's take our last break.

And one thing, Jay, is to maybe bolder your position, which I agree with, is that Jesus, who is the ultimate example of humility like a child. I mean, wouldn't that, that's a fair thing to say. He came here. He totally gave himself. He was devoid of pride and he offered himself, I mean, literally as a child would, and he even knew how bad things were. And every time Jesus was on the earth and in a situation, whether it was in the garden, whether it was at the cross, at the tomb, who was always coming or in the desert when he was tempted? Who was always coming and ministering to him in those moments? Angels.

Yeah. I mean, so to your point, they were looking out for him. the whole time he was even here on this earth and even showed up in the worst possible moments to then nurture and minister him, which I find interesting, yeah, that he's had this is the same crossover. Well, I think, go ahead, Jason. Well, I was just going to say, I don't know why the religious world from a scholarly standpoint does not embrace this on this verse.

I mean, I've really looked and I just cannot figure out why they're uncomfortable with that. but I mean it may be that a lot of them believe that kids are born into sin in quotation March or whatever you could have that that's a big but uh but they just don't embrace that but I'm gonna tell you you read it it seems to imply that and I've been many times with kids that were not given long to live and this verse has come up I've brought it up several times and it brings them comfort I'm like look I am 100% sure you are the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven, you know, because most of the times kids don't really want to talk about it, but there's been a couple that asked me in the situation, you know, what's going to happen

to me? What do you think? And so, I mean, it's a tough conversation, but I thought, they're asking me, I'm going to we're doing this. And so I bring this verse up. I'm 100% sure that there are angels around you that are ready to take care of you one way or another. You're safe.

Jesus called you the greatest in the kingdom. You are the greatest. Nothing's bad going to happen to you long term in the hands of God. Well, it brought them comfort and peace to hear this verse. Yep. Go ahead then. Well, yeah, I was going to say, I think where the primary text were, I'm not going to tell you where I stand on it because I need a little bit more time to unpack my position on this.

But Romans, you know, five talks about all sending an Adam. So I think that's where some people get the idea that maybe we're born in sin. You know, are we born in sin? Are we born with the propensity to sin? You know, but I think the point of Matthew 18, particularly about the kids, is we can be summed up in this. Because I've raised, I've got five kids. I've got three that have made it to 13. And I got one that's 13 now.

And I'm here to tell you that the year, the year that. turn 13 when they hit seventh grade something like something happens and I can't describe to you just the it's like I mean it's like a whole other deal and one of my friends here that runs a church camp here actually runs the church camp that Billy Graham used to run he said he says that he's been a youth ministry for 25 30 years he says that let me tell you how it works he said it's like you're raising these kids and all you're in a house where all the windows are up five and a like five feet high. He said, if they ever want to see the outside world, you've got to pick them up and let them look outside or you've got to tell them what it looks like, and they listen

to you. They said, the day they turn 13, it's like they wake up that morning and the whole house is made out of glass and they can see everything and they know everything. I think that it's kind of that. Like you think about like kids, they're just not arrogant. Like little babies, they're just trust you. They're they're leaning on their parents for their every for I mean I got a little baby now that every I mean I feed her she looks at me with like complete trust. I take care of her and I think that that's what the point he's getting at here is that when we walk into these we walk into life and we're going to try to position ourselves as the center of it and we're going to develop when we're not leaning and trusting on God he's like that's that that's that's the wrong path you'll you'll

you'll never make it that way. You've got to be humble like the kid, like the little, you got like the little kid. But you know, Zach, I believe what you just described. And I agree 100%. I remember I was 14. And I remember the day the light bulb went off. I was on the bus. This girl got on the bus.

I had talked to, she had been a friend the year before it, but she stepped on that bus. She looked different inside my mind in a whole new way. And from that point forward, the battle was on. And so, you know, that was my glass day was that day. I can still remember it. I mean, clearly. Because my point. You've just described the human race.

But you go from safe to lost. Right. But what's interesting is that makes a good point about the idea. He mentioned, you know, his daughter, Ruth, because verses 12 through 14, when it talks about the 99 and going to find the one, he's still in the context of children because he says at the end of this, the Father in Heaven does not want any other. there's the train to Georgia. He's letting you know, keep this going. Keep it going. Right.

But the idea is that Zach has a large family already, but he and Jill, out of their love for people and children, they adopted a baby whose life, who knows what her life would have been like, but I know what her life's going to be like now, being raised in this family by people that love her and nurture her. In a sense, that's the leaving of the 99 to bring the one. one in. And Jeff mentioned this when he was on about what they do in ministry. We have to look out for kids because look, there are people that treat them terribly all over the world. And it's our

job as a believer. So I think that context fixed this more than anything else that I know of is the idea of what, Jay's, what you did with Karina, the idea of our family is that we look at people and say, you know what, we want them to be a part of the life we know. And sometimes that means we're going to have to stretch our comfort zone out to be able to bring them into our family and our midst. I mean, so I think, Zach, that's a great example, just with this context is talking about. When bad things happen to them, I am convinced after reading this, that that will be made right for eternity. There's not a doubt in my mind. Yep. I believe that, Jason. I mean, why throw that in there about, you know, the angels see the face of the father?

I mean, that is a, what a picture that is. To me, I'm like, look, I understand. I understand. the worst thing you can do on this planet, just think what's the worst thing that happens? Bad things happen to little kids. Nothing gets me more upset than that. We've shared Jesus with a lot of people and you start hearing what they do and there's abuse going on and sexual abuse. And I mean, it just makes my blood boil. And I believe that's why Jesus was providing comfort here that as hard as it is to deal with that, it'll be made right.

I'm glad it's in here. And sometimes even, Jay's, in this life, things can change and be made right. Because I know, look, our audience is vast. And if the numbers are true, which I believe they are, that one out of three, people that are listening to what we're talking about today have been sexually abused by someone or in some way. And you're thinking, you know, I'm living with all this guilt or I'm living with these bad things that have come out of that idea. It can change even this life. I'm married to a woman that was marred. by the first 33 years of her life because of being sexually abused as a child.

And then finally, when she let Christ move in where all that bad stuff had been, she was a changed woman in the last, you know, 20 plus years has been a whole different person. So even in this life, we don't even have to wait until heaven. Things can be made new in a way you couldn't believe. So, I mean, I say that as an encouragement to people out there who have been, who have had sex abuse in their past and are still living through some of those difficulties and relationships. Jesus really is the answer to filling in that unfillable hole that Satan has convinced you is there.

So don't give up. I mean, what we're offering is ultimate peace, both in this life and the one to come. You bet. Yeah, I'll say a little more thing on that, too. Like a lot of times, the people who have perpetrated this abuse, I've seen it a lot, is people who claim to be Christians or are even clergy. I mean, we've seen church abuse. It's terrible.

I mean, it is so bad. But, you know, being in college ministry all those years, I mean, most of the kids that we dealt with that had a real issue, they had that shame in their past. And I personally witnessed a lot of people have found deliverance from that shame. So I'm so glad you said that out because I guarantee, I mean, I guarantee you a number of people listen to this podcast. There's a lot of people out there that are right now they're carrying that burden from. something that happened to them. Somebody violated them when they were a little kid and were completely vulnerable and they're carrying that weight with them today 40 years later.

And I pray that God will release you from that. Amen. Seek Christ, seek counsel. And I guarantee you you can find deliverance that happened. So good stuff today. Next time, hopefully I'll be back in studio. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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