Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 385 | Jase’s Unusual High School Experience & How America Strayed from the Founding Fathers’ Plans

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Jase recalls his high school years and some of the unusual policies of a rural Louisiana school. Jase and Al discuss the brilliance of the founding fathers and how placing the power predominately with the individual states allowed more freedom. Jase explains why he believes we should handle the major issues rather than putting them off to deal with all the small ones. Phil shares why it is worthwhile to retain knowledge of God, particularly because America as a whole did not do this. And the guys discuss what the unforgivable sin truly is and how it affects our lives. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So, Dad, yesterday after we had Tony Perkins on our podcast, which I thought was an excellent podcast, he's so knowledgeable and good. And he's a preacher, you know, so when he broke his Bible, I was like, all right, we got, it's going on. He fits in the unashamed. We did his Washington Watch radio show, which is a live radio show that we did it from in here in the podcast. It was a bold move. And it was dad live. But I told Tony, Tony said, no, this isn't a podcast. You can't edit this one.

I said, I realize that. That's why I'm on here with that. I said, if he says something too crazy, we'll do a cleanup on aisle sevens, what we call that. We just kind of, but you did great. And I thought your stuff was really good. I'm never comfortable ever. I'm just not comfortable talking about politics.

I don't know. And his show is very political. I don't know the breath and the depth. I see, well, you tried, you told him, you gave him a heads up because you said, Tony, I just want to let you know, I hadn't watched the news since Biden got in. So, just so you know, I'm not really keeping up with the day to day. I'm not keeping up. I see people get, even people in the Lord get so passionate about political issues. And I'm like, yeah, maybe this is wrong for me to say. But I'm like, because I have the same thought every time in my mind, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

I'm thinking, well, if you were this passionate about. Jesus, we possibly could change the world. I mean, I've seen people just get, they're so angry and passionate. And I'm like, I mean, Jesus does more than politics will ever do. He can get you out of the ground. He can give you forgiveness and peace. Right. So I tend to line up with people where I think the more godly values will come from their

policies. That is my take on politics. I vote spiritual number one. I'm a little different from y'all in that I enjoy politics. I mean, I say enjoy it. I enjoy keeping up with it. And I always have. I mean, when I was young and I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh was just coming on air.

And so I grew up listening to Rush, you know, and every day for three hours, he talked about the issues of the day. So I just kind of cut my teeth on it. So I love it. But I also agree with y'all that even though I like keeping up with it, it does it. It's like the rule I have for LSU football. Like a few years ago, I decided, you know what? I'm getting way too down and up over what some 18, 19-year-old kids are doing. Like, it's affecting my mood for weeks.

And I was like, that's not very good. That's crazy as Missy and I had this same conversation yesterday over the Saints game because she just, I was like, babe, you're beginning to worry in here. Because she was screaming and hollering. and hollering, because I can't watch it with her. I had no idea. I didn't even know what she watched. This is ridiculous.

And I finally just thought, I'm going to have this conversation. And so I went in there and I was like, babe, you can't let this affect you're me. That's right. He's like, are you kidding me right now? She said, watching LSU football doesn't affect you. I said, well, here's what I, I had to make a deal with myself. Yeah, me too. I allowed it to affect me when they win because I'm happy.

That's a positive emotion. Well, I think this will help people. But I said, now, if they lose, I'm eliminating that. I'm just going to get them next time and we're moving on. I was like, and I think I can live with that. So I've really tried to work on that. She said, well, here's the problem. This is professional.

Because she's, look, I like the saints if they win and or, you know, if they lose. but I'm not, I'm passionate about LSU. Right. Once it gets to, we're getting money. Yeah. I don't, I'm worried about that for the college game. I am too. I don't have the same vigor for the professional game.

You know, I'll watch it. Because they're playing for an education, but then it seems to just be a little more innocence. And the further you go down, the more innocent it seems. That's just me. Not that there's anything wrong. No, no, people are passionate about. But she said, but you don't understand.

She's like, where are you watching the? the game i was like no i wasn't one she's like how could you be in the same house or not watching the game so we had that conversation i was like well i was really i knew what was going on just based on your responses she was she was just losing it she's like i know why yeah oh she's getting there she said here's the problem you're talking about not affecting me these are professionals the kicker has been missed two extra points that cost them the game she's like are you satisfied I said, well, they moved the point after touchdown back because I thought, well, maybe she doesn't realize it's harder. And she said, you're going to defend a professional kicker.

Everybody else is kicking from the same spot in the NFL. And I thought, that's actually a good point. It's a good point. I said, okay. I have been here in Ms. Kay. throw a lot of field goal kickers under the bus. I bet she was hot yesterday. She said, they're paying these people.

You know, the pros, she said, they're paying them big money. She said, you know, this guy, why I pay him anything? Call him. Get rid of him. She said the same thing. She said, what? I'm leaving it here. Once it's over, it's over.

I said, okay, that's all I was checking on. I mean, that was a lot of hollering. And she said, yeah, but the game's over now. I left it there. You got to leave it on the field. I thought, okay. Good talk, babe. Well, that's so back to the original point, that's kind of the way I am with the political stuff.

Obviously, if the party you don't like or some politician you don't like wins, you know, and that's bigger than football. But at the same time, really, in the big scheme of things, we've been rocking on here for a long time. So back to Tony. So he's been in D.C. for 18 years. So he's been through different administrations. And he says, you know, I get disappointed when somebody's in that's not his pro-family and stuff we care about. But I thought he made a good point that the reason why he does what he does, because he agrees with us is you can't change our culture with political fixes.

Political party is not going to change our culture for the best. It does not affect the heart. Right. Well, and they're trying, they're coming up with laws based on what's really exceptions in society. And I'll give me an example. We were talking last night, me and a buddy of mine, because we were talking about when I was in school, we had our hunter education class in ninth grade.

We shot live rounds on the football field at school. That's where I got my hunter certification was at school. And look, they sent out in the little pamphlet. It was B-Y-O-D. gee, bring your own gun. I shot my gun because we all put up a dollar, the kids, and whoever had the best score as we're training to get certified. Right.

Took the pot. So not only, we're gambling and shooting at school, and nobody thought anything about it. Well, my buddy, he was saying last night, he said, well, you know what I did? Which he's a little older than me. He said, when we had, what do you call? Like show and tell.

at school. He said, my exhibit in 10th grade, I brought my gun and showed everyone how to clean it, how to disassemble and clean it. And nobody said a word. I mean, he brought the shotgun to school, broke it down. Here's what we do. And so years later, you know, we've had, you know, a guy shoots at school, which is horrible and terrible. But now you think, well, it's so a microscopic part of our society compared to the overall heart of people. And we know the argument on the political side. I mean, because people say, well, it's the gun. And we're like, well, it's the heart of the person or it might be mental illness.

But they tend to come up with laws that all of a sudden is not practice. practical where like let's just say you take all the guns away except for the people who get them in with evil intent well then it's actually a worse situation which is kind of what you see now there's no way to defend yourself so to your point jace is really what we were talking about in the last podcast we were innocent of thinking that there would be a problem with a gun at a school because nobody could imagine going in there to try to shoot somebody i mean we hunt you know we right so when that happened, our innocence was shattered. And I guess, I'm not sure, but I guess Columbine, 20 whatever years ago that was, was not sure that was the first one.

I don't know if it was the first one. It was the first one I remember that it was a big deal. But then there was a whole series of these, and now they happen, unfortunately, way too often. But Jay's is right. In comparison of people that own guns, it's actually super small.

But all it takes is, and 24-hour news cycle changed a lot of that too. Because when you're, people are sitting there watching, this campus and, you know, for 24 hours literally straight and trying to grab a story. I mean, literally everybody gets fixated on it. Well, what I'm saying is people get so passionate about it and understandably so because people died.

Sure. And kids. I mean, we're talking about in Matthew 18. Don't harm kids. Don't harm kids. I mean, this is the worst thing that can happen. That's right. And the Bible's saying that.

But then you're trying to blanket laws that in different places. have different meanings. I mean, the biggest deterrent around here, there's no doubt about it, where we live, is armed people. Crime is not as bad around here because if you bring a gun to school,

somebody around there's got a gun around here. I'm telling you. Yeah, I mean, and people know that. It's like why, you know, burglary is not really a problem in our neighborhoods because everybody has weapons in arms.

I mean, people know, even if they're high on droves, they're like, if you go break into one of these houses down here, you're fixing to get shot. Yeah. And so they don't do it. So somehow and other, you wish there could be some practical. But it is amazing, Jay, it's the two sides of logic, which is why it won't work to fix things, because by the time this airs, we will know what happened in the Kyle Rittenhouse case. That's been a big case this week.

I think it just went to jury. and while we're recording this. But I've seen a lot of the testimony and what happened. This was a 17-year-old kid that his father lived in Kenosha. So when people started burning the town down, and it doesn't seem like there was a police force there to stop this.

So this kid who had a lot of training, a lot of gun training, I can tell that how he was handling his weapon. Oh, yeah. He shows up at first to protect some dealership of some friend of his. And then eventually, of course, it turns into a melee and these people get after him. Well, he winds up killing two people and shooting another one through the arm that were, but it was all, you know, his claim is self-defense, which we're going to know what they, you know, rule.

But when I was watching it, I thought the same thing because the gun control side keeps saying, well, why was he there? He shouldn't have been there. But they, you know, he crossed state line. I kept hearing that. And I thought all these people had come from all over the country to protest and write. Many of them armed illegally. And yet that was okay. I mean, it was just a mindset.

I was like, I just don't get it. But it's just a different way of looking at. But this kid who shows up is like, you know, well, my point is. He's bad, but the others are not bad. I was just saying all that to say, politicians are, if that's where you're putting all your hope in on fixing the world's problems, you're really going to be disappointed.

Yeah. There's too many circumstances and there's too many situations. There's too many people. There's too many areas that are vastly different. When you try to make blanket laws that cover everybody, it's just almost an impossible venture. So, I mean, look, you say, well, what do I do as a follower of Jesus and a person who trust in God? I think you try to vote in the people that line up with his principles. But you're still not going to find, in some cases, you're looking at who's running against each other.

I mean, it's bad or worse. Yeah. So what do you do? I mean, I think you exercise your right to vote. I got so angry. You know, we had an election this past Saturday. And I wasn't sure what was happening as far as who we were voting for. But I knew it was like vote here.

Yeah. So I look at it. I knew there was some am. amendments on the ballot, so I studied them and I got some consultation because now the way they were these things, you're not real sure what is saying? So I had to call Gary Glenn, who's a lawyer, and say, you know how I am. I mean, this is weird, but this is written in legal jargon. And so we went through them.

And so I go up there to vote. Well, there's nobody there. When I got there, I thought this is weird. Well, when I got in there, I walked in, they had the machine off, and it was almost for it was closed. So they were like, rolling the eyes. Don't plug it in. They get the book back out, you know. Well, I'm looking, and nobody, as they're flipping through, nobody's voted today.

I mean, every once while I'd see a signature, I thought, what's going on? Well, when I stepped into the booth, there were only those. those five amendments. I thought, well, no wonder. I was just going to figure out who was running for what. Oh, and nobody running. No, it wasn't even a public government. Well, then it hit me.

I thought, well, I know what we need to be voting on. We shouldn't have five amendments to the state constitution. And they were all tax-related when nobody else is running. Because when they put my name down there, I snooped and looked, and I was number 140. of the day. 140 people had voted. So they're going to change the Constitution based on probably around the state a few, maybe a couple of thousand.

And I was one up and look, I got a sticker. It said, I voted. I thought, boy, I bet you haven't handed out a lot of these today. But that's what made me mad. I thought, what's wrong with our system? We should make a law saying you can't put amendments on the docket when there's this percentage of the vote. You need to be voting on somebody in office on top of that.

Now, here's what burned me up. So when I went the next day, because I said, I'm going to look and see, because I might have cast a winning vote because it wasn't but a couple hundred of us from around here. Everyone I voted was the opposite happened. And so then it just burned me up. I thought, because I'm voting, I told you my voting philosophy. I'm voting for the most godly principle.

And so I was 0 for 5 in getting passed. I hope the least amount of time. I got bamboozled. Neither one of y'all probably even voted because you didn't even know it. The only reason I saw was a sign, you know. I was in Alabama. I didn't know. Let's take a break.

Yeah. That's what burns me up about politics, though, is they slip this kind of stuff in. Well, I was telling my buddies about it. He was playing cards or not. Well, they all got mad. They were getting mad to hear me talk about it. Because they didn't know either. Right.

It was the least publicized thing. There was nobody running in our district, but they put these five amendments here and passed them through whoever. Well, the bad thing is it's probably bad, probably bad for us. Well, I won. Well, I was, I was 0 for 5. Well, you know, the brilliance, though, what's happened is we've looked over the long haul. the brids of the founders, you know, and they only started out with just a handful of states, but they knew they had enough vision to know that if this thing expanded across the whole thing,

because at that time, other countries owned big chunks of what's now the continental U.S. But they knew, they like, if you have too much of a federal government, if they're too strong, then we'll be just like we flee'd from it. It'll be just like another monarchy with the king and all that. So they set it up in the Constitution for states to be able to, you know, because they knew they're like, this thing spreads out. You know, people got to be able to rule themselves. And the further you move away from the people you know, the harder it is.

But in spite of that, look at how much the federal government over the less than 300 years have seized that control back. Yep. And now even to a lot of people who want us to be a socialist, which is just more. steps towards this idea of a, you know, oligarchy or a monarchy. So I don't know. It's just the founders had the right idea, but Franklin said it best. It's a republic, if you can keep it, because people just tend to want to go that other way, you know. I guess the same reason people want to move to big cities. And no offense, I know we got, you know, a lot of our listeners in big cities, but we talked about bless them last time bless you because, I mean, how do you ever

have self-rule? Every time you seem to get in that large or setting, they are advocating things that most of us know we would never want to live under this tyranny. It's terrible. Yeah. Well, that's what I was, I mean, we're in a section in Matthew 18 that is somewhat difficult, but it's dealing with the same thing because in the church you have all these circumstances and issues and people are different and there's different sins and how do you

handle that? And so, you know, he starts off saying the greatest in the kingdom, be like these children, cause them to sin he then goes to each individual being important with the that the prodigal son type parable in saying that everybody matters and then he says so in 15 if your brother sins against you go and show his fault just between the two of you because so now you have a basic issue which is embarrassing because here you are supposed to be representing Jesus, but we all sin. Yeah. A church is filled with sinful people.

Right. And as hard as we try, even you can be transformed. You're still going to do somebody wrong or somebody's going to do you wrong. So how do you handle these situations? I mean, I feel like it's the one place that you have in common with politics because some of the, some things, you can come up with scenarios that are really difficult to figure out and give God a black eye because of the church on how they handle things. And you have some things that are seriously evil. I mean, you think about these priests, abusing children,

which is the same principle he dealt with, saying it'd be better for you to be thrown into a lake with a millstone around your neck than to cause a little one to sin. Well, you know, some guy claiming to be a preacher or a pastor and abusing a kid, I mean, could you do anything worse than that? Yeah. Not that I know of. I can't think of anything.

So he brings up this situation. All right, first you go, so let's just say somebody sends against you. So you go to them, you have a conversation. I mean, this is a general, because why is Jesus bringing this up? Because we have bigger fish to fry as far as our purpose on the earth. God uses us despite our flaws to represent, you know, him and his goodness. Plus, I think, Jayze, he's wanting to plant this seed into these, his disciples' mind that, look, when I'm gone, and you guys are the leaders, this is the kind of stuff you're going to be doing this. This is going to happen.

This is what you're going to be dealing with. So don't panic and leave, because you, look, there's people that move from church to church and church because they're like, well, people keep doing wrong. They keep messing up. well you're never going to run out of that move yeah i mean it's just the way it is which was really his whole point was we're we're moving into something where relationships with people matter and i want you to be together with people so he but jes you're right what's people have done with this text right here i've seen it before it's like a it's like a one two three step thing and once you do that if they don't you know then we call them because like we've done

everything we can do. But you may give them three strikes. Right. A lot of time, just one. Just one. Well, but, you know, then you have passages in Timothy and Titus that, like, what does it say? One of divisive person once.

Correct. Then twice. Then have nothing to do with it. Right. And we have, you know, you have the First Corinthians five about expelling the wicked among you, which people are like, well, wait a minute. I thought we were supposed to forgive. but there's different situation.

If you have a person, especially in a leadership role, claiming to be in Jesus, and he starts calling wrong, right? Well, we have a different conversation here. This has nothing to do with the world, or if you have a leader who's saying, I'm doing wrong, let's just say they're being openly, sexually immoral. But he's claiming to the other leaders and to the church,

this is right. well, what are you going to do? At some point, and you get into a situation, like in this case, he's like, well, you go to them and you have a conversation. That's the first thing you've got to do. You're never going to be able to solve something by everybody gossiping in the background informing coups, which happens a lot. You have a conversation with the person. Get this group against the other one. Yeah.

And so then he says, and so under the old Torah law, they had this established a, testimony on two or three witnesses, so he brings that out. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. But you've got to remember, this is interesting in that he just one chapter ago built the foundation for the church, and now we're two chapters later, the church hasn't been officially established yet. Right. I mean, it's formulated.

It's formulating. But he's, now we're getting into, well, there's going to be situations come up where you're going to have to tell the other members of the church, which we just built the foundation, I'm the foundation that I'm the son of God. You're going to have to tell them about situations and things that have happened. And if he refused to listen to even the church,

treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. But you've got to stop here. In the Luke 15 story, he was eating with pagans and tax collectors. So if you try to make this some kind of, specific law in a church that blankets the globe, you're going to, you're setting yourself up for failure. So I think, because you're right, he uses as an illustration the idea that there were our outcast among you. I mean, Matthew was an outcast until he went into Jesus' inner

circle and then he had an inner circle. But he was still an outcast to everybody else. So he uses that as an example of what happens when people won't listen. So, which is very confusing, Desi, if you're trying to make it a lot. And I mean, it's a bad illustration to use the politics. But, I mean, it was kind of what I was saying. If you just try, yeah, it would be easy if you could just make a blanket law. And it would fit in all situations. And fix everything.

And fix everything. If it would stop people from, you know, misusing a gun or whatever the situation. That's what you get from the, from the. Joe Biden crowd. Yeah. They try to come up with a law. But it just doesn't. You know, people who are going out and shooting targets are shooting a squirrel and eating

them. They're in there. They throw them under the bus. And we talked about this. Let's take another break. We talked about this yesterday, Dad, on Tony's show. You know, a classic example of this new thing, this kind of woke thing, is we're going to make a federal law.

where people who are confused about their gender, so we want them to not be confused or be able to do what they want. So we're going to open up bathrooms to everybody. So it's not that, so men can go to women, women can go to women. And so what happens is then all of a sudden we start having these things where people are getting raped in the bathroom.

And you're just like, wait a minute. Or you got peeping Tom. Yeah. How did that happen? Well, that happened because you tried to make a blanket law for everybody for a handful of people that have some special needs themselves.

It doesn't work that way. That's, to your point, Jayes, every time that happens, chaos. Once I saw the college student enrolling of the college, and when he got, I've said this before, but it's worth bringing back up. When it got to gender, he had over 60 choices. When we get to that, you got to rise up and say, wait a minute here. Yeah, exactly. You know? Exactly.

You cave into it. You just have to say no. Or the English professor that lost his job because he referred to a student in college on a university campus by the wrong pronoun. What was ironic was he, this person taught pronouns. That's what he taught for, you know, his living, what a pronoun is. And there's not a lot of choices there. It's pretty simple. It was always been the same thing.

But now this guy loses his job because this person didn't want to. wanted to be called him or her, he wanted to be called something he just made up. Well, the next chapter. Think about how ironic that is that a guy who teaches it is fired because this guy came up with something. Make a special law for him. I mean, it's insane. Well, what's interesting is you see this from the Pharisees.

And look, I'm not picking on the world or the left or Joe Biden or whatever because Jesus had the, his main points of persecution. from religious people over the same matters. You know, when he gets to Matthew 19, which we'll get to next, the Pharisees came and asked to test him. Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason? But what I love about what Jesus's response, which is crazy in our culture today,

because it really applies. he didn't really answer the question because they were trying to make an overall rule that applies to all situations and get him narrowed down on the record. And he started off with a different foundation. He said, haven't you read that at the beginning, the creator made them male and female and said, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be your. united to his wife and the two will become one flesh. It's like, why would he answer the question that way?

Because he went to the basic fundamental, which is what's causing all the gender controversy in life. He's like, let me tell you, let's back up before we get to the marriage. We got a male and a female created by God. Now, if you acknowledge that as true, all of a sudden, this is going to start making sense when you get to marriage. Because then you have that, for that reason, a male and a female uniting together,

and the two will become one flesh. So they're no longer two but one. So their question was about divorce. He went with foundational principles. They were created. They were male and female. There were two choices instead of 60. And God joined them together.

They left their principles. parents and they became one what god is joined together let man not separate which we'll get in the different issues but i my point was he went back to that fundamental principle which human anatomy tends to give the evidence for is oh that was a creator and you look at physical anatomy and you're like okay i get it well but you know just show you though jess how even a modern time they can miss it just like they were missing it in Jesus' day. I had, I debated, it wasn't a debate, but I mean a discussion with a guy, a preacher who told me that if homosexuality was wrong or gender, you know, people, you know, can be transgender and all these. Jesus never addressed it.

That's what he told me. He said, if it's so important and if it's wrong, he would have addressed it. I said, oh, he addressed it. And he was like, where? And I went to that verse. I said, he addressed it in Matthew 19, he laid out a pretty good standard. But you got to remember the chapter before, he's like, he tells the sheep, the 99, the 1, God is pursuing everyone. Correct. Everyone is valuable. It's not a matter of love, grace, or in the opposite, you know, prejudice.

God, he couldn't be any more clear that he's after. Which is why Matthew 18 is before Matthew 19. Well, exactly. By the way. And so then when you start talking about devoid. And divorce and all the things happen. I mean, it's like me. I don't want to see the different ways that sex is occurring on TV.

I don't want to see that. You know, in the world, I know that they're doing whatever they can think of. But so you take something like, I don't want to see a guy having an affair with his wife. I mean, with another woman, you know, who's married. I don't want to see that. Commit an adulterter. I feel the same way as, you know, seeing a homosexual act or whatever. I'm not going to see that.

You say, well, why is Hollywood so determined to show that? Well, it's not about, you know, however you feel about it. It's more about them wanting you to enjoy watching that. And I'm like, well, I'm consistent. I don't, I actually wouldn't even want to see a married couple doing it. No. You know, I don't want to know what's going on. But it's back to, I don't want to see that.

It's back to what you said earlier. It's because the idea is we want to be as innocent of evil at all cost all the time. We don't want to do. Like that, that introduces things in our mind that we don't want there. That's evil. That's what it does. So that's kind of. When you say that, people will come back and say, well, you're being prejudiced or you're against them.

I've always said it's a different conversation for people in Jesus and for people outside. Sure. People outside, I don't want to know about what you're doing. I don't even want to have a conversation about it. I'll introduce Jesus. If you trust Jesus, then you would read that and say, oh, there was a creation. and they were created male and female in the tubal. But this only matters if Jesus matters to you.

That's right. But if somebody was in Jesus and saying, well, I don't believe this. I'm going to live the way. Well, that would be a different conversation. I think that's what the world, when they hear the word evil, they're like, what are you saying? But it's more about having a different conversation with people who trust Jesus or people who don't care. And let's take another break, which to dad's point yesterday when we were talking, you can't, that's why you can't politically and culturally address biblically moral issues and somehow think

you're going to fix that. It won't work that way. Again, you're trying to make laws about what people do and don't do in their bedroom or whatever. If you don't make it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, you read a text like Matthew 19, if you have made a decision, I will retain the knowledge of God and see what he says on every matter. Right. And I will look and see what he had to say about it.

Then I say, well, it is written. And it's impossible to get around it. Right. He has spoken. He has said, I made them male and female, and the two will come together, and the two will become one. in divorce he said don't do that you marry stay married right there are some who are eunuchs by birth and are going to marry well we're going to get to that but look so but the point i'm made that way

and some right that way because of the kingdom but but remember jesus has shown us consistently we had the whole section of parables that the kingdom of god is for seekers people that want to find out what God's. Who earnestly seeking. Who's seeking. That's right. So, Jay's is right. The same things don't apply to someone who's not seeking.

They don't care. No. No, but that's why I don't go out. When I go give speeches, I don't get into social issues or even sexual sins to the world. Because I'm like, you have the passage in First Corinthians, you know, five, when it said, talking about expel the wicked brother. But then he says, but I'm not talking about people out in the world. Right.

You don't have to leave the world. case you have to leave the world. That's what the world doesn't get. They're like, well, quit talking about this. Well, in the church, we talk about it because it's a different situation. Once you acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ and you surrender to it, well, then we are going to talk about it because you're claiming to follow the principles of God, yet you're living in contrast.

Which is why he starts it out by saying, unless you humble yourself like a child, you won't see the kingdom of God. That's the whole point. If I'm not coming in with humility saying, you know what, I think my lifestyle's not been good for me. What do I need to do? That's a humble approach and that's you could deal some of it. That's why I think when you're in the world, you should share Jesus. That should be what we do. And when people embrace Jesus, you then have different conversations about lifestyle and we've all had those conversations. And we've all I had those conversations with different people. I just think if that's how we roll,

now at the same time, I think the world should meet us halfway. Since we're not out here, you know, hollering about those issues, why do we have to celebrate anything and everything that can be done? I don't think that's fair either. It's not fair. And another cross, and there are some cross points every once a while that I would call sort of exceptions to what you just said. One of them would be the abortion issue.

I think, I mean, and the reason we're more public, especially Lisa and I, in front line about it, is because of this text, I mean, Jesus says, don't kill innocent babies. I agree with that because there should be a law, there was, that you couldn't do that. And then that changed 40 years ago. Well, I agree that we do go out and talk about that because somebody has to be a voice for those people, They have levels. That are valuable. So that's one thing.

It's one thing to be, you know, in a private bedroom doing whatever it is you can do. And I'm like, I don't want to know about it. Right. I don't care. I don't care. Right. What you're doing. But when you're, when you have a little baby that I feel like someone needs to stand up.

Well, plus, Jay. I mean, let's just be honest. We're living in an era where everybody has access to birth control. I mean, it's free in any community. so there's ways to avoid getting pregnant if you don't want to get pregnant. And then there's also adoption. People are wanting kids. So it makes no, the whole abortion factory in 60 million kids makes no sense.

It has to be of the evil one because that's not even, I mean, that could easily be avoided in culture. And so by embracing that, I think we've cursed ourselves in such a terrible way. I mean, it's just, it's awful. I mean, it's a terrible thing for so many innocent kids to be died. They just say off the cuff, wait, no, you can't mix religion and politics. Right. You like, oh, they need. Stay out of our bedroom.

Same up. Somebody came over that idea. Yeah. But it's not, it's not, what I'm saying is it's, it's, it's the, all the languaging that's used to support this idea is all, it's just flowery language, reproductive rights, blah, blah, blah. It's, at the end, it is what it is. You know, I just saw a video, Lisa, posted a video on her Facebook, and it was a document.

And it was a doctor. He had done 1,200 abortions. And then he realized at some point after 1,200, he was like, what am I doing? And so he had a moment. I don't know, maybe he became a believer. He didn't say in the video. But now he's like, this is terrible. What I did was wrong.

This is gruesome. And so he had this little, it was like an animated video of what happens during abortion. Well, you know, they go in, they literally pull a child apart limb by limb who's alive and crush their skull. it's just, you know, it's terrible. And so there were nine people that they interview on this thing on this video. And all of them were, we're pro-choice, we're for women's rights. And so they all were supportive of abortion until they watched the video.

And then they went back and said, well, what do you think after you've seen what happens? And I remember they all said, I'm no longer that. Once I, one guy who's a young guy, he was like, that's just not right. And I thought to myself, that's what happens when you can get caught up something that's just languaging and marketing and all that. But when you just actually see it for what it is, it's brutal. Oh, yeah. It's terrible. So sometimes that's where truth matters, and that's sometimes you have to just be truthful about something that's bigger, you know. But I think, so that would be a case where, because I'm in 100% agreement about the difference inside the church

and outside, but then there are some issues as Christians. We should probably be trying to make a difference. Yeah, but that's one. And that's one. But that's more about. life and protecting the innocent. And I'd say the same about what's happening in these school boards and stuff around the country about trying to teach this terrible stuff to kids. Again, it's protecting. Which comes back from Matthew 18. When you involve kids, well, we're going to step up because they're the greatest in the kingdom.

Right. But these other things that they call political issues, I mean, once you decide to trust Jesus, there's a different standard about the way we live. but that's just the way it is. Now look, he then spins a... Hang, before you do that, let's take our last break. Yeah, I want to hit this last section, Jay. Well, then he spends a whole section on about forgiveness,

because guess what? We're screwed up. That's right. People mess up. I mean, God's grace is bigger than anyone's sin. You can't think of a sin where his grace is not bigger. And then you think by Peter's question, he said, Lord, how many times must have?

Because he just had the thing about making it right with your brother. And he comes back and says, well, how many times do I actually forgive? And he didn't say have to. He said should, but he really meant how many times do I have to? And then he said up to seven, which under old Jewish law, you know, three times and they're out. So he was like showing like, what about seven? I mean, that'd be a big step, right? And then Jesus basically comes back when he says, I tell you not seven, but 70 times seven or 77, either one. It's translated both ways. what he's saying is who's counting son i don't count and i said this sunday in my sermon i was like would

we want god to count our sins and then and then figure in a number what would be the number that we'd be comfortable with right which becomes his point that we're not counting we're living and which means that we're living in a mode of forgiveness and that's how you can make it because otherwise how would you make it you'd be the most bitter some of those bitter people i know or people that didn't have the capacity to let something go. I've often wondered, you know, when you read texts or two, you know, about the unforgivable sin, and it simply would be something that's sinful, and you say it's not. Yeah.

I mean, you know what I'm saying? Right. How would you ever get back? In fact, he used it in the context of the Holy Spirit. it, you know, if you were denying the one thing that could change who you are and produce good fruit, how would you ever get it right? You couldn't because you don't have that within you to change you. And so I think that's the whole point here.

And I tell people all the time about forgiveness, it's as much. I mean, Lisa and I wrote an entire book about it, that forgiveness, the reason he connects, he tells a parable about a guy who owed a bunch of money. And then, you know, he's like, please, I can't pay it back. Of course, back in the day, you know, you went into indentured servant or they put you in prison to you could pay off your debt. It was hard to pay off a debt in prison. So what that means is you're going to be locked up for a while.

And so he pleads, you know, for the guy to give more time, which says the guy forgives his debt. Like, he went beyond just giving him more time. He said, okay, you don't owe me anymore. Same guy turns around. A guy owes him a lot less money. A hundred bucks. A hundred bucks. And he throws him in jail.

He's like, no, you pay me. So his point was, obviously, this guy had no understanding of the gift he had been given in forgiveness because he couldn't extend it to somebody else. And so I think that's the whole point. If you can't really embrace the forgiveness of God, then you can't extend it to someone else. And that becomes the real key about forgiving people means that I'm embracing what God has done for me, which is the point of the story. Well, there's no joke. It's right in the middle of all these issues. we're talking about because I mean when kids suffer at the when people cause that to happen

man makes you angry yeah makes you mad and so somehow to find forgiveness in the situation it's tough it's just going to be a tough road for all of us and uh but you have the situation here there are people and even though it's probably rare there are people who come to jesus and they they're hardest probably i mean you look at the different characters of the Bible. Some of them did some grossly wrong things. And so as bad as it is from us wanting to play God, you know, we're just not. And we don't know people's hearts. And we have to forgive.

That doesn't mean they can be leaders. And I mean, I have these conversations all the time because situations come up. And someone makes a bad mistake. And you're like, well, you got to forgive them. But that don't mean they should still be a leader. I mean, you as leaders have these conversations about these different things. Forgiveness is different than you're not saying, oh, I forgive, therefore he's got to maintain his same role in the church leadership. I mean, you can't just bring up one situation and apply it to all, but I'm saying there's different circumstances.

But sometimes people think, well, that's what it means. Oh, you've got to forgive. Nothing's going to change. that's not forgiveness no and sometimes consequences for certain actions and they they last for a long time some people go to jail that's right that mean you can't forgive them that's right but you call it paying your debt and sometimes you have to pay that debt you know another thing you look at from the idea of forgiveness is what it releases you from so in other words sometimes someone say someone and well i'll just use our my family's example so lisa was you know sexually abused by an uncle

So she carried that all of her adult life because it instilled something bad in her. It was someone else's sin. It wasn't even her fault. But she now has to deal with this. And so we get to be adults and we're having all these issues and problems. And then we start realizing that we had to go back and allow God to heal some stuff, you know, that happened. That wasn't even her fault. But so she had to release that.

The only way she could do that, it was to forgive this. person for what he did to her. And you say, well, that's not right because he wasn't seeking forgiveness. And he wasn't. But she was held captive by what had happened. So by releasing it, and I'll never forget it's one of those powerful nights of our lives. We're sitting in a counseling room with the counselor. And there was an empty chair just like there is at this table. And she and I both imagined this person in that chair. And she and I extended forgiveness. And literally we walked out of there that night with a burden lifted. And so the reason why is because that person now had no longer have control over her or our marriage. And so sometimes forgiveness, that's the

point of it, is that it releases you from the burden of what someone else has done to you. So we only think about it in terms of what God did for us, but sometimes it can do something for you, whether this person ever gets that or not. I don't know if this person's going to make it or not. I hope they do. But I'm not bound by it anymore, and neither is Lisa. So I know what I mean if they go to prison and spend the rest of the life. That's right. So be it. And look, he should have went to prison.

Which he would have. These people need to be in prison. Mainly because so someone else won't get hurt back to helping kids again, right? So that's the idea. But just because someone pays a price, that's why on Paul, we talk about Paul, most of the epistles, the New Testament epistles were written with him in prison. And look, he felt like I deserved to be in prison. After what I did, I kill people.

I terrorized brothers and sisters in Christ before he got it right. He was like, I'll be in jail, no problem. And he wrote these letters. And you watch his whole life, the idea was, is he embraced the forgiveness of God and then extended it to other people. And he said I was the chief sinner, the worst. And he was, you know? So, I mean, I think it's one of those things we look at.

We say, you're right, Jay's. Why would Jesus put this in here right here? Because this really is the heart of what King. Living is all about. Yep. It's forgiven. Well, when you think about what's best for kids, I mean, you think about a stable family life with this foundation that he mentioned in Matthew 19.

Just think about it. Yeah. Is it best or no? That's right. Is he right or not? Yep. Self-evident. Self-evident.

It's there. All right. Well, we'll pick up in 19. Next time, it's some good stuff in there, too. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell

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