Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 416 | Phil Warns Against Confused Love & Jase and Zach Explore Fear

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

Phil dives into the book of 1 Corinthians to illustrate what love really is, and Jase paints a picture of God's vast power that is clearly represented by the physical world around us. Zach Dasher describes the difference between a theological pursuit of God and a faithful pursuit of God. Jase talks about his mentorship with Myles Brennan, the quarterback of LSU. And Zach points out what is offensive about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sign up to watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed https://PhilRobertson.Substack.com — Read two FREE chapters of Uncanceled by Phil Robertson - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Well, we're busy putting together a few bonus segments for future podcasts with some of my treasure friends in the metal detect tomorrow. And so we had an issue come up, and I asked them about it. I thought it went pretty well. But I had a riddle. A riddle. Yeah, so I thought I'd bring it before you and see what y'all had to say.

So in the past year, all my buttons on my pants are popping off at various. Man, too. Really? Yeah. All right. Well, I haven't had a bathroom scale functional in a couple years. There's one in there. Battery doesn't work.

So I took the battery out and looked at it, and it looked like. like no battery I'd ever seen before in my life. And I tried a couple of places. No, we don't sell those. So anyway, Missy... China. ...figured out a way to order one of these sophisticated batteries. So now the scale is now functional.

It's back on. So I was under the delusion that the reason all my buttons were popping off is because I was gaining weight. That's what I discovered was my issue. Oh, that was your issue? That was my issue. Not mine. It was the girth. That was the problem.

I actually had lost four pounds from the last time I had weighed, which was about two years ago. So what is the riddle? Solve that riddle. Cheap material. Huh? You're wearing cheap material. No. Bad sewing machines.

Nope. Skinny fat. Not good thread. Nope. Somebody about half drunk one at the sewing machine. I don't get the buttons on. Yeah, there's a big alcohol. All of this is a seamstresses.

You button it up three times and your buttons fall off you, the bad sewing machine. That's the whole riddle, Jay. No, I'm stunned. My, my, pick up the price a little bit when you buy something. Yeah, quit being a cheescape. My treasure buddy's got it first off, but y'all, nope. What's happened is, although the weight is the same, there's been a shifting. Oh, that's what I said.

Skinny fat. I don't know what that. We're not familiar with your North Carolina terms here. Your way is frightening. My first impression when you said that was like, hit you in the arm and then wipe it off. It's like you're skinny, but you've actually gotten fatter. So it's like it's weight shifting. You may have lost weight, but you've lost muscle.

Muscle weighs more than fat. But I'm doing the same regimen that I've been doing 30 years. Yeah, but you're also aging. That's what I'm saying. You're 50 now. You're 50. So, Si got it, Murray got it. That's what they said?

They both said it's a, so I said, hey, there's been some shifting going on here that you don't even want to know about. Well, Carl Allison used to say it was weird. Especially up here. For everyone listening, Sa, there's nowhere for it to go except out. Bill pointed in between his ears. Yeah, there's a shift going on there in a day. A big shift. But you know what's amazing is Saa has turned that shift into quite the lucrative career of, you know.

What we thought was acting stupid, we were informed that it was actually called talent. That's right. We just hadn't talked to the right people. Exactly. The Los Angeles crowds at all, no. He's not, he's not an officer rocker at all. That's, that's 100% talent. That's exactly right.

So BlazTV.com slash unashamed right now until February 7th, they're offering $15 off of a one-year subscription. So we've been doing these, I call them Unashamed Overtime. It's like a bonus segment from our podcast. So that's where you go to get that. But more than that, you can get all 800 episodes in the woods, that's there, along with all their other people. So we've got a great relationship with Blaze. They've been super to us, wouldn't you say? Absolutely, yeah.

So you might want to check that out at the end of the, episode we'll tell you a little bit more about it so so you're asleep jace and they woke you up me yeah they woke me up i mean that's how you got to remember this is 12 hour days in the elements it is in the winter time yeah it's just brutal i mean i literally just fell asleep in the field and then the next morning when i was awakened by my alarm i tried to move and i couldn't move i thought what's wrong So I finally got a little feeling my left arm, and I worked it over to my right arm, and I started, like, resuscitating the right arm. You had the dead arms? Yeah, the dead arms.

And then I moved both arms down, and I, like, grabbed my leg and started massaging a little bit, and pulling it up. And I was like, and I went to the other leg, I was like, ah, ah. I got the legs side of the bed. I was like, I'm going for it. And I just, oh! Did you have any breaks during the 12-hour FM sheet? I've never heard of a person their whole body went to sleep.

I could not move a single muscle in my body when I woke up. I literally had to do that. And I got up, I felt a little wobbly, And I was like, if I can get this foot in front of the other, and I just, oh, Missy, I woke her up during all this. He's like, what are you doing? I said, I'm trying to walk. So his next conversation is that is he needs a raise.

Yeah. I mean, if you're having to wake every part of your body up in the morning, you're working hard. I thought it was weird. It never happened to me before. You'll drink a little more water. I was trying to say that's how. You're dehydrated. You're dehydrated.

I think I walked about eight to ten miles the day before. Yeah. It was just a long day and it was just rough. You like the old Toby Keith song. You're not as good as you once were, but you're as good once as you ever were. How do you remember that? You know how many songs I remember? You don't remember that one?

Not country. Zach's out of mind like a steel trap. Worship songs I can give you, you know. I mean, yesterday we went in it because I was like, man, I've been. I'm actually, you know, I'm working now. Yeah. So it's weird. I think that's the problem.

That's it. I was basically, I took a vacation for four or five years, and now I'm actually out there, it feels like work. Even though I'm doing it's up my eye and joy. Man, I walked in there. I was talking about the Bible, and then you're thinking like. They started. I walked in there and they were that, I think I.

That's all I remember. It's, I was just like, oh, I need. Your body's getting older. I went. Yeah. I went skiing because we got 13 inches of snow in North Carolina last week. Welcome to the studio, by the way. It's good to have you in the studio.

We don't get that very often. Zach's part of the team here. Well, he is, but I'm saying he's not here very often. Well, y'all take vacations. Well, sure. Every time I turn around, y'all are somewhere exotic. Yeah. You know, I'm out here working.

I'm working. Okay. I'm just traveling. When I'm somewhere. We never leave work. Yeah, I took one vacation. That lasted three years. but it was a good one it was a good one it was a run yeah it's your yeah you're you're

I'm 44 now and uh so yeah I can tell a difference in the recovery times I'm not a skier I'm grew up in Florida slash Louisiana there's no skiing around here you know except water skiing yep yeah but in North Carolina you've got a few places I mean it's not Colorado but it's you know I saw you limping around when you came in here oh I took a so I get up I get up on the ski left But I've only gone three times. I went in high school in Gatlinburg once, and then I went last year at Beach Mountain in North Carolina with the kids. And then Jill, they're like, hey, let's go, let's go, I'll go skiing.

So I'm like, so I get up there and I get my skis. You get on a lift that you're, it basically takes you up the mountain, so you're looking down. Is this in North Carolina? It's in North Carolina. I didn't know they had ski in there. They got Sugar Mountain, Beach Mountain. We went to this one called Wolf Laurel, which is kind of the local place. It's not, I mean, it's, you know, it is what it is.

But so I'm on the ski lift and, and so I don't know where to get off at. Jill jumps off and I realize, oh, we're getting off. So then, but there's a timing to it. So I, like, look, by the time I realize she's off, it's like a five-foot drop now, I just jump. Well, then I break my ski when I get off and I fall, bust it, bust it, and then the guy's like, I got to send you back down, which is kind of like, you don't do that. That's a penalty box or something. Do what? Penalty.

They put you. Well, it feels like that. It's the right of shame because everybody else is going up, but nobody's going down. Nobody goes down. So if you go down, it's like, look at that loser. That's what everybody's saying. And they're all pointing at me and laughing. I mean, it's like, it was.

It's the right of shame. I wish I could have seen that. I was horrible. I never got past where the lift was going up. I said, oh, we have to get on that? You didn't get on it? Oh, it's scary. You got, how many movies have you seen where something bad happened on that?

I'm out. Well, I go get my ski fixed and come back up. Me and Jill, she skis down the mountain. We ride back up together. Then the next time I get off and there's like a big metal pole where the cables are attached to. You ran into it? Well, no, it was on the side. But Jill, when she gets off, she like cuts in front of me.

Well, I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm like, well, then I lose control. Why are you doing this on purpose? I don't know. This is embarrassing. It wasn't. Leader of your family. He couldn't even get off the lift.

That's what embarrassing. Forget about skiing. So this is the second attempt. So then I fall, I fall backwards. And I got on a helmet. And the helmet hits the metal pole. And it's like, wah,

wah, won, won, wah, wah, wah, wah. And it's just the whole place here. Most people wear a helmet. I don't know. I mean, I was. I'm like, I don't know. And you needed to. I needed to.

Your wife is doing figure 18. And she's doing her little deal because she grew up around there. She grew up in North Carolina. That's why she wanted to go skiing. Oh, just to shame. He looked like an idiot. Kids, they're like doing all kind of crazy tricks and stuff. And the guy who's running the deal that he comes up,

oh, sir, sir. Oh, it's you again. He said, you get your ski fixed. I got a fix. He goes, are you okay? Yes, I'm fine. So then I go down the mountain, and, I mean, I get around the corner, and I mean, I'm talking about moving like.

You're out of control. I mean, out of control. And I'm like, I don't know. You're a minister. I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen. And so I took a. I took a fall, and I'm telling you, I think I blew my, I think I tore something in my day. That's been five days.

All this was under the guise of having fun. This is fun. Yeah, I just, I never have done it. Yeah, let's take a break. I retired, me and Willie, we used to take a piece of plywood and just one of Phil's fishing ropes and just let it out and you just hang on. and the fun part was you could get as close to like the stump line on the river as possible if you're driving because you just wanted to promote fear. So what are you on? You're hanging on to a rope.

You just grab the rope. Get on the plywood. It was like a piece of plywood or we used tin. Like we have a snow in down here. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We would go down those hill, that hill. When we water ski, well, yeah, we did that. And of course, Will it goes over and pulls off two pieces of siding off of mom and dad's house.

and made skis out of it. And made skis at him. So he was the fastest, but you're talking about out of control because there was no way. He wasn't, he just went. The best part about the ski, I was talking about when we used to water ski, but yeah, when we, I was talking about the snow ski. Every 10 years, it snows down here. We got there to big hill and down by fields.

And we would, the best part of that competition was there were no rules coming down. If you could, like, attack your opponent as you're going down. Right. It was kind of like combining, you know, fighting and skiing at the same time and snowboarding. Because Willie had the sight and he was beating everybody. So it's like team piece of tin and the plywood, we had a rope. So as soon as Willie took up, rope up, chump, he got on. So the skis would go off one way and Willie's down the bank into the river.

We went to this, there's this big church, a little church in the town I live in, and it's got a huge hill that everybody goes to when it snowed. and they sled down it. Yep. And so we're all doing the sledding, and there's a bunch of people on there. And that Bear gets down there first. Well, he's got this little sled that's like a cylinder kind of, like the one off family vacation.

Oh, yeah. It's like that. He had some kind of a ointment on his. Oh, and he was moving. So he gets down there first. Well, then, I don't know, this became his thing. As you would, whoever was coming down, he would take that disc and right before they got to, he'd throw it at it.

They try to decapitate him. You're an assault. And I'm like, so it was kind of, I mean, he's had some Robertson jeans in him. I was going to say he could fit in with us for the back of the day. Sounds like me, a bunch of rednecks going amuck. But you started, Dad, because when I was a little kid, Jay's probably too young to remember it. We were up in Junction City, and you were younger then, but you and some of your buddies, y'all flipped over a car hood and tied a rope to the front of it.

And all the kids got on the thing. And so they were out there in those four-wheel drive. trucks where they would turn that thing sideways where you're going about 50 miles an hour. It's slinging you. Yeah. Slinging across. I mean, I was thinking back on them, forget about how else. We were lucky.

That thing flips over. We're all dead. Yeah, we did that in college one year. Back in the day, people used to ride the back of the trucks and all. Oh, or lay up on the back of the car, remember looking out? Do that now, and somebody's calling that one. There's a Karen just waiting to turn. Yeah, the key word for 2022 is safety.

safety. But even with all the safety measures, it couldn't help you. Oh, no. And when you get noticed, the second going around, then they're like, Mr. Dash, there's a place down here by the fire. Trust me. I retired of my own. I retired of my own accord after that one.

I said, you ever going back? If I go back, I'll sit in a lodge by the fire and drink coffee, but I'm not. Yeah, I don't think that's going to be. That's what Lisa said. We've moved into, we're the grandparents. We'll have everything. We'll have some nice, so hot chocolate. They're ready for everybody.

Well, the irony is, as I got invited the same week, I got an email from a guy who does a ministry for business people and young business guys. Like, he'd go on these extreme adventures. And one of the things that they do is heliskeying. So I got invited, so they drop you off in a helicopter, and you go skiing out of mountain. So I'm glad that this happened because what if I would have said yes?

And he got up there on that kind of mountain. No, no, no. You'd have been. I'd have been. people die. Remember Sunny Bono? Oh, yeah. That's how he died. Yeah, I'm going to take the safety route. Kind of a stunt like that.

Well, Zach, we're glad you're with us, and even though you're limping. I am living. I am glad that you're here. So we're in 1st Corinthians 4 is where we're at. You guys have been following us along in our Bible study, which we have, I've really enjoyed this because it's really been good. And so we kind of laid out Paul's case for unity in the first three chapters. And now he's going to kind of hit a,

I don't know. I kind of zeroed in, Jace, on the word, which is not in the text, but it seems like the concept here is decency was the word that I found. And I looked it up. The definition for decency is behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability, modesty and propriety, the requirements of accepted or respectable behavior. And that's kind of what he's going to deal with in these next three chapters. because obviously the Corinthian church, we laid it out pretty clear, they were surrounded by a lot of indecent behavior. Is that a fair thing to say, you think?

I mean, in terms of what was going on with the sexual morality, with, you know, all the things that they were dealing with, the Greek word for that decency means to become more. And Romans 13, 13 says, let us behave decently as in the day time. time, not in carousing, drunkenness, sexual immorality, and debauchery, dissension, and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ to do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh. So he was talking to the Roman church there, but it's the same concept. And kind of that's, I think, what kind of guides us into these next two or three chapters, wouldn't you say? I think also.

What the overarching problem is I see it in Romans, by the time he gets toward the end of the book, two or three chapters there's a little confusion here on what love is after you read like 1st Corinthians is not up don't covet whatever other commandment there may be

summed up in this one rule love your neighbor as yourself and then this and he did the same thing to the Corinthians wrote the same thing that he did to the Romans love does no harm to its neighbor.

Therefore, love, the law. In the Corinthians and the Romans had a severe problem. Romans, too, they're looking for ways to judge others when they themselves do the same things. All of them are sinners. So this group of sinners starts going through someone's life, looking for a mistake so they can cancel them. And the reason they're doing that, they don't love them at all.

So love's a problem with Romans. When you get the First Corinthians, by the time you get to 13, he goes into this and says this, if I give all I possess to the poor every dime and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient. Love is kind. And you're going to read about it in 1 Corinthians, 4 and 5. on what their problem really was.

It was a love problem. It's a love problem in America, too. Love's not rude. It's not proud. It's not self-seeking. It's not easily angered. Think about a world like that. It keeps no record of wrongs.

And now we have a whole country with people sitting at a computer trying to find out where someone made a mistake and they're still mad about it and won't forgive them. if it's 200 years ago, the mistake. Right. I mean, so anybody else who makes a mistake in modern day,

they look around, they try to find ways to destroy them, to defame them, to get them, you know, they fired from their job. You said, just out to get them. We got them. We got them. So. You're describing cancel culture, which we tell. When you run out of love, you got big problems.

Yeah. Which is kind of the heart of your book, uncanceled, is the idea of dealing with that. You could front that. Paul, the Romans and the Corinthians, he ended up there. Yeah. We've got a love problem here. These people having sex with this and that, now they're running just going nuts,

which is kind of not much has changed in the last couple thousand years since this was written. Why do you think, Zach? Yeah, and I think that these guys here, you think of my cancel culture, one of the, I guess one of the fears of believers in a cancel culture is that is the fear of being marginalized.

It's the fear of being, you know, made to look like a fool, like you're out of touch, you know, your, you're a bigot or whatever the accusation is going to be, that the fear is, is that I'm going to be cast into a light

that's going to make me look like an idiot. And I think it's here when Paul, you know, is kind of talking about what they went through. It's very similar because he basically says that, you know, we've became fools for Christ. And I think what he's saying there,

people are looking at what And this is in 1st Corinthians 4 when he talks about this idea that they were fools because of the name of Jesus. They became weak. You are strong. You are honored. We are dishonored. To this very hour, we go hungry and thirsty. To this very hour, we are in rags.

We are brutally treated. We are homeless. We are carved with our hands. We are cursed. We bless when we are persecuted. We endure it. When we are slandered, we answer kindly. And up to this moment, we are hard.

become the scum of the earth. And look, and what he's saying is... Hang on, Dan. Hang on, Dan. Let's take a break. What he's saying is 2,000 years later, I just wrote a book on it, me with your help of your dad,

finding meaning and peace in a culture of accusations, shame, condemnation, and you could put, and no love. That's right. So we reach out to them. We don't hate them.

just trying to get them give us a break. Well, and what I would say, like, I hope you guys, by the way, we'll buy this book now. I know it's not out. It's about to be out, but if our audience and people that support what it feels doing, particularly, if you would order it now, this gets, this allows us to get this book on the top seller list, which is not easy because obviously the type of content that it is, we're, New York Times is going to want to ignore this as much as possible. But how awesome would it be to have a book called Uncanceled? on the New York Times bestseller list, which is, yeah, which is the heart of course. I don't think that dog's going to hunt.

Not unless our people rally, this one. What I was going to say is a big picture, I think their problem is, and I sound like a broken record, but I'm going to read this again. The last verse in second Corinthians in his second letter, he said, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,

the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. You can't have grace. without Jesus being Lord. And I said earlier, they wanted a Savior, not necessarily a Lord. And he repeats himself over and over and over, you know, even in chapter 4. And the love is right in the middle of that.

Well, and you can't have, you know, love without God. God is love. And so I keep going back to the relationship aspect and this fellowship of the Spirit. he just said in chapter 3 in 16 don't you know that you yourselves are god's temple and that god's spirit lives in you the implication there is actually do you not know this it's like they were having a belief or having a church without actually having the personality that the trinity represents yeah he just keeps saying it over and over and another illustration of that is in chapter 4 when he, I think, is one of the more scary verses in the Bible,

just because when God is close and is real, you start thinking of the implications of that. When he says in four, five, therefore judge nothing before the appointed time, wait till the Lord comes, he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. at that time each will receive his praise from God so so the reason I think that it's scary is it's not

we're we're the type of people that just look at actions and we try to figure people out and usually I get it dead wrong I'm like this guy would never yeah he will never follow Christ the next day he's ready you know it's just that's the way it works but when you think about God, not only knowing what you do, but your motives. Yeah. Why are you doing it? Well, you're saying there's some churches even, maybe a lot of churches maybe, that love or lack thereof is the problem.

I think it's the problem. He can work within God's people because that's who he's writing to. I think it's the problem because they're not looking at God as a real living being that is noticing and aware of their heart. And there's council culture, cancel culture, you say what they're missing is they're not godly at all. They don't even believe in God. They've decided that there's no need,

no room for God in their heart. I mean, maybe what I'm presenting is more an agnostic view, but I'm saying there's a lot of people say they believe in God, but they really don't. Yeah. They just believe he's not real and well. working he's a million miles away and you know that because you just see uh blatant things like you act one way in a church building you go and do something that you know god would be vehemently opposed to but it's

like it's in their mind it's like well we did this that's a separate kind of deal here that's why i think he keeps saying this jesus is lord and the you know god knows not what you're doing but why He knows your motives. You just think about that. Because that way, that gives me a little comfort because you can be sincerely mistaken. I mean, God knows your heart and knows why you're doing what you're doing.

Look at what he said before that in verse four. He said, my conscience is clear, but that does not mean I'm innocent. It's the Lord who judges me. That's a huge statement when you think about it because a lot of people say, well, you know, now in our culture we say, I've got my truth. My truth tells me this.

Your truth may tell you that. Well, look, just because your conscience is clear and what you think you're doing the right thing, may not be the right thing at all. Paul also said he persecuted the church with a clear conscience. That's right. He was killing Christians with a clear conscience. He also said to the Romans, it's the only place in the Bible I've ever read it. And he said, people who don't think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God. One of the things he said about them is that they're God haters.

So sometimes, Jace, it's not even them doing something in the name of God. There are people out there, at least there were in the Roman Empire. I think there's still a few left who are literally God haters. Well, exactly. But what I'm saying is if you read this text and say, he'll bring delight what is hidden, and we all think of that verse, we'll stand before God. But I guarantee you this, those that will be confident are the ones.

that realize they stand before God every day. He knows your heart and your motive every day. I'm standing before God having conversations. We're doing this. So when I actually stand before God in, I guess, a physical slash spiritual way at this time, well, I'm hoping we'll have the same conversations. Yeah.

Because I'm like, you know, I look at my life and you take daily analysis or weekly analysis. and some things are glaring you do wrong, and you confess your sins. But you also ask for wisdom and all the things that we have in a real relationship. But I had this illustration I wanted to bring up

because to Ozdown, we were filming. Hey go, let's take a break. And, you know, when you're doing a Hollywood project, you're trying to find some moments of clarity with God to make sure you're being the one influence and for the good instead of being influenced. But I was down there at the bank of that river. And, you know, I thought about this river, Mississippi.

I mean, we got to, we go over that bridge. I've been over that Mississippi River bridge hundreds of times. And heard stories and I've seen maps. And when I was down there right at it in high water, I was down there where I literally just a matter of feet. Yeah. You realize how powerful this is. You drive over it, you look at, oh, that's go, when you're real close to it,

you sense and see the power. And I thought, I think that was the Corinthian problem. If you have him a million miles away and it's just something that is in the conversation, and it's just like you're crossing a bridge and oh, yeah, where, yeah, but when you get close and you know that he's looking at your motives, and that's why I think when he eventually at the end of chapter four here said, the kingdom of God, It is not a matter of talk, but a power. You can say all the things in the world,

but when you're experiencing and seeing God's power in a real close way, a personal way, I just think it has a different tone to your heart. I think you're right. And then back in verse 6, Jay, he says something interesting. Because you remember he's still in the context of them holding up men as their leader. So he's trying to make that separation. Look, we're not a big deal. I mean, we're just servants.

But then because you start thinking, I know people are listening, well, wait a minute, if I can't trust my own conscience, you know, how do I follow? But look what he says in verse six. Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit. In other words, all the people they were saying, I follow Apollos, I follow Apollo. He said, look, it's not about us. So that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, do not go beyond what is written. then you will not take pride in one man over or against another.

So the idea is that's why we have a guide. That's why the word of God was provided. You start wondering, you think, well, you know, my conscience tells me this, but God's word tells me something different. Then you should look at the something different because that may be the conviction you're looking for to say, this is the right path. So it's not like he leaves us to our own devices. He said, look, I'm giving you something.

So Paul was saying that as he's writing letters that we're now reading and listening to, but he was talking about the Old Testament. You could know the scriptures, but still not obey them. Isn't that what the Pharisees? No, the churches and not know God wrote, not acknowledged that he actually wrote it through it. I mean, how many times you ran into somebody personality that they know the Bible backwards and forwards, and they're great at banging that over the head of somebody and converting someone to their doctrinal position or their, quote, unquote, theology, but yet they miss the one

that it's pointed to like Jesus said, you see that. And I think that's what Paul never getting out here is, I mean, coming off this thing, I was like, don't follow me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just a servant. Chapter 4, that's what he said. Like, we're just servants. Like, regard us, verse 1, as just servants to Christ, as those that have been entrusted

with the secret things of God. He's pointing it back to God that kind of disbandling from himself. And I think what, when you get to the end of this chapter to Phil and Jason's point, when he says that it's not a matter of top of the power. I love the next verse, though, because it kind of wraps up how that power is manifested. What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip or in love with a gentle spirit?

So even Paul, even in this context, he's still coming back to, like, I'm trying to come to you in a position of humility, in a position of love, to display the inner life of God, the Trinity of God, this God of love. Most of the time, people, they don't, like that particular thinking because to them it possibly may give them the people

they would they would not be what's the word they would it's a sign of weakness yeah yeah a gentle spirit and uh or a whip that gentle spirit a lot of you know he's you know he's you know he they would they they charged him with that too you know what I'm saying I think that's the offensive part of the gospel that, I mean, when Christ came, I mean, first of all, the fact that Christ came, that's weakness. If you look at it from that perspective, from a worldly perspective, it's weakness for God to put himself in a human body and say, I'm the God of the cosmos who transcends space and time and actually created space and time.

He never makes a mistake, and they've hung up on a tree like some kind of animal. Yeah. And his final words were, forgive them. Yeah. That's what the cancel culture does not understand. But to Zach's point, if when you look at the religious people who make their theology, the mission, like you said, and then you go read where Paul said, we need to have the mind of Christ, where you go look at the life of Christ, there's a lot of religious people that look like the people that Jesus was arguing with, then Jesus.

they look nothing like like his life and what he did on a daily basis and they sure are not saying forgive forgive y'all for y'all know not what you're saying or reading and just think about it he said the two greatest commands in the Bible

love God he meant love me and love your neighbor everything can be better if you saw a whole culture that loved God and love their neighbor don't tell me that you wouldn't have a better better society.

That's what I was re-innovated. He was trying to look at the, how do you want, I feel like relationships overused, but just that this is a being, this is a person. Granted, he's more complex than we are because he's, has a, you know, how we should describe it.

He has a. He's mistake free. Start there. It's like three entities that are one or three personalities that are one, but each one is a, powerful part of each other. And I think he's trying to stress that.

And this is just, it seems like they got caught up in having the power of God that was used to point people to Jesus. And they just wanted the power and to talk about it. Here's grace, a great immorality, then lawsuits among each other. Well, and that's what's. At the same time, they're trying to follow whoever is the most eloquent speaker. Yeah. Or has the biggest movement or whatever. It's like people when they go.

They love God and their neighbor. They wouldn't be doing this. But they go to a church and they only because they like the personality of the preacher, which is not too on. So similar. Let's see. That's what I see. Let's take another break. That's what I see is the tension of this chapter because we know, as dad said,

he's about to get into some specific issues that he's. he's got a, they need to make adjustments on. So he's saying, but he's dealing with people that have held them up higher than they should be. Yeah. So this chapter, the tension to me in the chapter is him saying, you need to imitate. Is this what he says in verse, what verse is it, 16? Therefore, I urge you to imitate me. Well, I mean, you think of it.

He said, well, I thought you were saying downplay me. But he's saying, look, when it comes to lifestyle, when it comes to what you guys are doing, you've got to listen to what we're telling you. And when he makes that last day on about the whip or the love, isn't that the tension of any leader in a church? 100%. I mean, it's how, you know, you're doing it in love, but what about that when you have to confront evil behavior?

He said, I'm doing this not to shame you, but to warn you as my dear children. So he said, you need to take these warnings to heart because they were up to no good. Well, he has a right before that, dad, he has a little thing where he tells me, he says, you guys, man, you got it all figured out. You're kings. You know everything. We're just down here in a little service. We don't know what we're talking about.

And then he says, I write this to shame you. So his ideas, look, you have put yourselves above what God is telling you to do. But he's real careful in how he's saying it. Exactly. In those verses 17 and 18, he mentions Timothy. And he's like, my son, whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He's not just saying he's faithful. He's faithful in the Lord.

And then he's like, he will remind you of my way of life. in Christ Jesus. I mean, just think about how careful he's wording this. Oh, yeah. It's not just my way. It's my way in him. In Christ. It's giving the Lord.

And he says, I teach everywhere in every church. So you're not special. I bring this up to all of them. But they're not saying what they're not quoting their positions in the Lord or in their life of Christ. Because what you see in a lot of church culture and I think this is why podcast. Like you guys don't listen to a lot of podcasts. I do. There's a really popular one out right now about the church in Seattle, the Mars Hill, the rise and fall of Mars Hill. And it's in a lot of it, I've got mixed feelings about the podcast, but I'll say this, that like there's a lot of deconstruction going on right now in the church because of these cult of personalities that got so big. And then everyone in the organization and in the church emulates that guy and becomes like tries to act like him or whoever he is. And that's not what Paul is getting at here when he says, imitate me. Because if you think about everything he just said, what do you say?

We're scum of the earth. We're brutally treated. We're homeless. You were fools for Christ. So when he said, imitate me, what he's saying is, like, I'm a servant. Like, jump on board with this kind of lifestyle. You're imitating me as I'm being a fool for Christ. But I think most people in the church, and I struggle with this too, is we're so.

afraid of how the world's going to perceive us. We're afraid that we're going to be perceived as irrelevant out of touch, marginalized, fools, everything that Paul's basically said, hey, I'm that for Christ, I'm that. And we don't want to take that kind of, you know, strap on the back. And Paul's like, no, imitate me. This, this road, the road with Jesus is, is a road where you will be persecuted. You will be marginalized. You will, whatever's happened the last 15 years where it's been popular to be a Christian. I think the ship has probably sailed on that. I noticed within hours, which is pretty unusual,

when we give over to 1st Corinthians 6, 9, and 10, the guy I quoted him a Bible verse. He asked me about sexual sin. I just quoted him a Bible verse and let his stand. But from that moment, for the next few weeks up to months, I was considered the scum of the earth. See what I'm saying? One Bible text, and I quoted a Bible verse, and I was labeled a scum of the earth.

And that is interesting that you're right. It's still the same dividing line. When you look at the text in chapter four, it's clear to me that Paul says, we're not who you follow. It's Christ. You have the Word of God to be your, that's what's going to guide. Don't go beyond what's written. Don't go beyond what's written.

And then you need mentors. You know, Jay's, we talked about Miles Brin. Brendan, who will probably be the starting quarterback at LSU this year about hunting with us. He sent me a text after he hunted with you guys, just thanking us and all that. And so I sent him a text back and I said, man, I'm so glad you got to come. And he said, well, you know, I love duck hunting. And that was great to be with those guys in the blind. But I appreciate mentorship even more, which again, may be like Miles even better.

But the mindset that you can learn, a young man can learn from older men about how to live, how to be the right kind of man in our culture. And that's exactly what I think Paul said at the end of the day. It's just like Timothy listened to what I was telling. And now he's a person who's going to be a leader in the church. I think that's the way our attitude should be that. Well, it probably came from conversations like I did say, I said, are they still cutting up down there on campus?

Which was an immediate burst of laughter. He went, Ha, yeah. Yeah. Not at LSU. No. Never.

I said, I mean. Surely there's not some carrying on and a little bit of sexual immorality going on at LSU. And so I said, you know, it's just, it's so interesting to be at a place

where you're bettering yourself, you're educating yourself, you're working hard. I said, and there's so many just on a dead end. Yeah. I mean, it's because they're,

hooked on whatever vice that, you know, they never recover. And we bump into them every day. But I think having him, because I think these are conversations you should be having with somebody that's there. I would want somebody to say, hey, that's a dead end because it is. Look, to the point, Ms. Antalong, Jay's, we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So therefore, when you're in a duckmine and you got some temples there that are representative of the Holy Spirit and God, and you've got an opportunity to share with someone, to

mentor, to tell them a better way because they're stuck in a really tough peer pressure situation. That's what we're talking about here. It's lived out better there than just, well, I'm going to wait and talk to somebody at my church on Sunday about it. Maybe I can get a meeting with my pastor. Look, it's got to be day to day to day to make a difference. Well, because it is. It's not just, I think we've been in the stake of the church of making salvation just a one-time event. Right. And the gospel is like, the end all be all instead of the gospel is not the end all be it's a means to an end and the end is is life with god himself and so i love it what paul says here what when he's the reason why he's

going to send timothy to jesus point earlier when he mentioned this he doesn't say he's going to remind you of how to get your sins forgiven which is part of it but it's also more than just getting forgiven it's life in christ he reminds you of my way of life in christ so you get forgiveness of sins, when you're justified before a holy God, that's only one part of your salvation. There's also this thing called sanctification that happens that is I'm being progressively freed from the power of sin as a believer through the Holy Spirit's indwelling in my life and in my heart. And then one day, I'm going to be glorified. I'm going to be freed from the presence of sin. And so I think when we think about salvation, it's good to put it in more of a context of its life with Jesus.

It's life with him. It's a better way. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's what we're, it's what we're living here. We talked about, Zach, we, he established that in one and two with the idea is the message of the cross, but it's also the wisdom from the spirit. Yeah. It's one, two. It's a one two step. Yeah.

Well, and the, and the love of God and, and, I mean, grace is what saves you. That's why I brought that up. May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with, if you don't have it, you, you're not, you can't be saved. Yeah. God's grace. But he, he, he. He made a point of saying, and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. This is a lifestyle of Jesus as Lord and you fellowshiping with the Holy Spirit in a humble way

as his power works through you to make the world a better place and make him known. Yep, exactly. Good stuff. So that's the end of our podcast. We do have an overtime segment, and today it's the time. top five things that I learned from the March for Life, which I was just at in D.C. I observed some interesting things that I want to share in our OT. For those of you that haven't signed up, I would like to, go to blazedtv.com slash unashamed,

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