Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 448 | Jase Describes Joy in Salvation & Phil Explains Why Submitting to God Isn't 'All Rules'

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Jase describes feeling like an older brother to a group of people he was speaking to and how he was moved by the crowd's joy for their salvation. Phil explains that in order to truly change and experience the peace that comes with a repentant heart, there is a certain sobriety of mind that comes before any celebration. Jase shares a new riddle about treasure-seeking, and Phil shines light on why people have a misguided understanding about what submitting to God really is — and how it doesn't mean "all rules and no fun." And Al challenges us to find a place in scripture that requires people to forgive themselves. Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I don't know what I was thinking. I mean, sometimes you just look up and you say, who's in charge of my life? I mean, is that? I had back-to-back nights where the complete total time

that I could have slept was four hours. I mean, I had these two weeks circled. Because remember, I missed a podcast. Right. because on that day, I had two things scheduled at the same time. Which was a little serendipity that you got that little break because you came here prepared to do both. But then we had Zach happen to roll in. In reality, if I hadn't a left, I couldn't have done both.

That's right. Who's doing this schedule? They're like, you are. You've made this. So, I mean, a lot of events have happened. Well, you already, what people don't understand, too, is, that we, you and I both have, we have things that are on the counter that some of this stuff has been a year ago on the deal. And so then you got all this new stuff comes up, but you've got to,

you got to suck it up because people are waiting to hear from me, you know, you're traveling. So anyway, just, so what I did Friday night, I did a local thing, celebrate recovery. Have you been to one of those events? Oh, yeah. And you're talking about it. I wish you would have let me know. At our church. Oh, my goodness. They're incredible. That place, which I showed up at about 702, and that place was rocking.

Yeah. It's happening. I used to, you know, years ago when we first started, I used to sing with them, like on their praise band. You used to sing with them. I mean, which shows you that they were scraping pretty low. Where was I? But you know what the reason I did that, Jace, was because. You can't sing.

No, I can't. But the music was so loud, it didn't matter because you never heard me anyway. But I was doing it to support them because what happens is a lot of churches is that Celebrate Recoveries don't work because the church leadership doesn't always get behind them. Because let's face it, the folks coming in, I mean, they're folks with a lot of issues. And so, but that's who we want. I mean, I'm like, I'm like you, Jason, when I go, I leave there with chill bumps because I'm like, These people are excited to worship because they're glad they're not in jail or, you know, face down the ditch somewhere.

The passion there was impressive. It was fun. It was passionate. You know who's in charge now. Rucker is one of our. Rucker's one that asked me. Yeah, right, right. He's one of our guys.

A new regime. So let's have old Jace up in here, which I actually went at it from a different angle because I tried your, I said, Phil referred. You know is rehabbers, but they didn't laugh at that. So I guess, whoop, wrong joke there. What Phil does. How he does? Phil, I'm just going to let you know. They don't think that's funny.

I thought that was weird. They laughed at everything else, not that. But I kind of, you got to remember, I had two lines of thought that I went through. I mean, maybe the Lord put this on my heart. But, so I'm doing this treasure hunting show. and I'm doing this goofy paragraph every time because you've got to remember the next night, which we'll get to later.

That was, what this event was, the next night, I went to a different place in the country, totally different vibe in Indiana, and it was awesome for a variety of different reasons. But for the Celebrate Recovery, I got to thinking about this. I mean, I got this whole idea to start this hobby

from the Bible. there's a lot of things in the Bible well think about the name celebrate recovery well that's what this show is about I'm celebrating the recovery of things of things that are lost or forgotten or mistreated or whatever you want to put in there and I never thought about that day so I'm I'm gonna I say because I'm my parents were where you were in in the exact room 45 years ago. That's right. Dad was baptized in that room.

So I came at it from a different angle. I said, now, personally, I was like, I've never been drunk. Of course, everybody got quiet then. I've never done drugs. So I said, that's why I think I haven't been invited. To your... You're not a rehab. I'm not a rehab.

But if you think about it, that's really who you should want. to come because that's what I said and they didn't laugh and so I thought okay it's got serious but then I did the old deal about well if you had to have all this baggage to qualify to speak here then Jesus could never speak that's true so everybody was hmm I got a few hmms on that and so I said but what you are missing is since my parents went through this it actually helped me when they came to Jesus, because I got to see that process. Right. So I went on this deal thinking if you don't think what you've been doing before the recovery

is not affecting your kids, you're crazy. Because I was probably headed to the same process. Right. But God stepped in, changed them. So I was looking at from a kid's perspective. I said, I think I offer some insight and some motivation. So I'm like, do that, yes, God is the one who recover. So I did a little play on words.

I said, I'm here to talk about the greatest recoverer there is. Yeah. And so here's what I did. I'll give you some insight. Y'all can tell me what you think. I like this concept. Well, you know, I didn't do it exactly like this because, you know, when you get up there, you can't have notes.

I mean, this place was off the chain. Yeah, yeah. hollering. You know, it's hard to describe if you hadn't been to one. I just couldn't believe it. I said, well, one thing for sure they got is passion. And when it's Chip night days, which is once a month, I think it's the last one of the month, it's even more off the chain because they're like recognizing it.

I can't imagine it being off. It's even more, I'm telling you. Wow, when I finished, you know, me and poor old Rucker, because he looked at me and I looked at him and it was just a small crowd coming toward me. And he said, we need to get out of him. I said, yeah, I got to go to Indiana. And so that was another story. But I want to be positive, you know.

So here's what I, you know, Luke 15, which I've gone through this a lot. So Jesus is sitting there eating with tax collectors and sinners, the riffraff. Correct. The same type of environment that I was in. Right. And not to base, I mean, look at me, look at y'all, especially me and Phil. I'm not one to judge a book by its cover for obvious reasons. Right.

But I'm going to tell you, this crowd, look rough. It is rough. It's rough. I mean, it is, I mean, if you don't have at least 10 tattoos somewhere, you feel out of place. They just looked scary. What was your line, Dad? Sometimes I meet some of these folks. I don't know whether to hug them or read them.

Meet them or read them. Meet them or read them. Yeah. That's pretty funny. So I did Luke 15, Jesus Eat with a Tax Collection Center, so he tells three stories. So think about why he's eating with the Tax Collection Center.

Why is he doing that? Because he's a human detector. He's looking for lost treasure, but he has the treasure as us. Right. we've fallen through the cracks. So he tells three stories about celebrating recovery. Yep.

The guy has a hunter's sheep, he loses one. And then I was like, you're the one. Because, I mean, I was hollering. Yeah, you're into it. And I normally do for another reason we'll talk about later. But so you're the one. So he finds the sheep. So then in the eight through ten, well, that's what I do.

This woman had lost a coin. I find lost coin. This is why I got in. metal today. Yeah. Because I'm like, because look at all the joy there. It's like,

like in verse 6 of 15, rejoice with me. I have found my lost sheep. Not only that, in verse 7, they'll be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner to repent. I mean,

there's a party going on in heaven. That's why I like the atmosphere because it's it's it. With everything we're doing. It's a party every time they get together because they're not somewhere bad. So then I got to the third story. and of course they're all the pig pen.

I said, y'all smell like pigs. They did laugh at that. Y'all been in the pig pan. I said, I was this older brother. I said, now I'm a sinner. I messed up. Don't get me wrong. I just haven't done the same type of things

because a crazy event happened in my childhood that changed the way I looked at that. Now, I may mess up and I may do all this, but I just looked at my, you know, especially my dad. I'm not doing that. But how would I have known that if I hadn't been in that situation? Right, if you hadn't observed it. Exactly.

I said, but that older brother, he tells this story, whether you're self justified or yourself gratified, whatever your mode of operation is, you're still cut off from the father. I mean, it's all about the love and grace of the father. It shouldn't be called the prodigal son. It should be the greatest. his father. Right. And so why is Jesus telling their story?

So that's kind of the angle that I went. And so let's see. What else did I do on that? Oh, I went to Luke 1910 where he found Zekees in the tree. And he said, I came to seek and to save was lost. So here he had a tax collector. Where did he find him in a tree? I do a lot of digging under trees.

Now, he was in the tree. That's right. But for a better look. Yeah. And Jason, I always love comparing the, because it's Luke 19 and Matthew 19. I love comparing Zechius to the rich young ruler of Matthew 19, the two different hearts. Because both of them were seeking Jesus out. Remember one of them wanting to know, how could that be a little bit better?

But he still was holding something back. When Jesus told him what he needed to do, he walked away sad. Zichias was happy and said, I'll give four times what I've stolen. That shows you the difference in the heart, you know. But I love making that comparison when you talk about Zekees. That was good. Yeah. Now, what did I have this Matthew 13?

The sower? 34. No, I had Matthew 1344. I can't even remember what that says. I didn't have any notes, but I read these before I got up. And so then I just kind of let this. Oh, oh. Duh.

This was going to be my whole point. So remember this story? I had an epiphany about this. this. That's why I'm excited about sharing it. I'm coming with guns of blazing this morning. It was exciting. So Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure

hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all they had and bought that field. Then he says again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away

and sold everything he had and bought it. So you say, well, I've always looked at that from my perspective. Like, I've tried to apply it, and I've read, I read commentaries on it. And it's always, well, that's the gospel. When you find the gospel, you sell everything else and you. Sell out for it. Yeah. Well, duh. I didn't think about Luke 15.

I didn't think about this, Zacchaeus, this quote. I didn't think about John 1232 when Jesus said, by his death, he would draw all men to him. Right. Jesus is the greatest human detector, God through Jesus. That was his way of rescuing people and finding it. So when I looked at this from God's perspective, it meant more to me. I'm like, he humbled himself, became nothing from his perspective, a human, and basically sold out for us.

Yeah. So that was kind of what I had going. I mean, I had this line. In reality, I mean, yes, the gospel, because we're in First Corinthians, 15, that is the most important. That is the game changer. That is the nuts and bolts. But in reality, the gospel finds you. God has been hunting us since that's why he put us here.

Right. And so I don't think we look at it from his perspective, but I mean, I've given you some pretty overwhelming evidence. that he came here to find us. That's right. And he did something that we're drawn to. Yes, because of our problems, but the cross answers are sin problem, the resurrection. So that's the way I went at it.

What's so incredible about his coming was that he changed the nature of deity forever. That's a huge thing when you think about. In other words, he has always been, but he was always been in a certain way. But when he came here and became a human being, he changed the nature of deity forever. Exactly. Which is such an incredible gift. Let's take a break.

So now, Paul, I would just interject. Just a thought. And I've spoken on this the last two times up at university. how shall I say this in a nice way? Say it nice, Phil. Say it nice. You've got to remember. Granted, when you find Jesus and you find salvation, there is a time to celebrate that.

It's a time to celebrate it. Correct. But life being what it is, it's interesting that if you go back all the way to Leviticus, throughout the scriptures over 100 times when I count words that are used when it reaches a hundred I say I need to remember that I need to speak about that I just mentioned a hundred times so in all of this that there's such a thing as the Bible completely lays out the scenario.

By the time he gets to the prophets, the main prophets Isaiah and moving forward, this thing of peace, peace keeps coming up. Now, it's not mentioned but three times, but I'll just give them to you quickly, in lieu of what Jesus is saying, the celebration part. It's time to celebrate, right? Life being what it is, faith, hope,

love and peace, peace of mind. You're not at war anymore. There is the time to be calm, serious, and protective. In other words, you got in the Corinthian letter, we've been studying, but I said, I just wonder how many times this is mentioned, because I was over in Psalms, I was in Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, then I got on in the New Testament, which I had the path of peace, God's call us. He begins to, the prophets begin to tell you the source of peace. In other words, literally worldwide among all humanity. What a powerful thing he's done.

And peace is always at the center of it. Time to celebrate and jump up and down. That's correct. But you say most of life does not involve. one big celebration. It's, it's, it's just not the way life works. All the negative things, you know, if you're saying, I'm going to celebrate every day, you say, well, how is it? If you, if you do anything without peace of mind, having sat down to study with many, many, many individuals, peace seems to be the toughest thing to lay their hands on. Like in the context of marriage,

which we covered, we didn't say anything about this, but we should have. When he's described it, if an unbeliever leaves, you're married to a guy, say you're a woman and you're married to a guy, he's not a believer, and he decided to check it to you. Let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in circumstances. Then he makes this interesting point. God has called us to live in people.

peace to live. You say, if you live in peace, it's rather sobering, is what I would call it. That's 1st Corinthians 7. We handled that. First Corinthians 14, which we didn't hammer on it, but we started with the gospel. Everybody needs to remember the gospel as Ephesians, Apostle Paul called it to the Ephesians. And he said, it's the gospel of peace. Yeah.

You know, take your stand with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. Right. At some point, when the celebration ends and the jumping up and down and being thankful saying, okay. And more importantly for anyone's life, is to understand it's a great thing. It's time to celebrate, but you begin to share with people and you point to them the gospel of peace. And so 1st Corinthians 1433, it comes up again. And this is a serious verse in my point. Everybody needs to get.

God is not a God of disorder, but of peace. I mean, it needs to be always there. Let's celebrate with limits on it. There was a lot of jumping up and down at Corinth. You see what I'm saying? Right. But he's warning them and telling them, look, first Prince of 15 there, it's called the Gospel of Peace when he said, I want to remind you of this so you don't forget this.

It should be, there's a certain amount of, what's the word soberness about the whole thing. They're serious in that of it. That's 1st Corinthians 14 and the other one was when you get over there

the 2nd Corinthians which we will cover it 2nd Corinthians is the last thing that's mentioned by the Apostle Paul and it makes sense because with this particular group there was a lot of what shall I say it was a lot of what Jay saw

and I've been to these meetings and all that you know the celebration part. Finally, brothers, second, Corinth is 1311. Finally, goodbye, brothers, aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind because that's one of the problems that Carran, live in peace, and the God of love and peace will be with you. So there is a certain amount of soberness. Some people take it too far, but I'm just saying, they're rejecting these things, just so you'll know when you,

peace of mind, how shall I say this, peace of mind is deeper than having a mind of constant somehow celebration. I mean, it's sobering in many ways. But they're right next to each other. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy. peace. Correct. They're right next to each other.

Correct. I thought about... That is fruit of the picture. Isaiah 9, 6, when, you know, a messianic prophecy about Jesus where it says, for us, a child is born. And he'll be called wonderful counselor. Of course, you understand him pouring out the spirit. Mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace. Yeah.

Which that's where we get that prince of peace from. Yeah, I would say, I would add in that it's not an either or to both your points, but instead it's a both and. In other words, then when Jason is describing in Luke 15 is the initial finding of the person by Jesus, because I agree with you. You could flip that and you look at it. That's the celebration. But over time, as you grow and mature as a believer, it does change your perspective. And it doesn't mean you're just a stick in the mud. It just means that there, I like the way used to it.

There's a soberness about how you used to celebrate sin. Right. Sinful behavior. Oh, exactly. But you got to remember the older brother's problem in Lake 15 is that he couldn't celebrate. Correct. That's where the problem comes in. Because it's a legalistic thing.

What he was calling peace was that he couldn't celebrate his brother coming back because he could give you 101 reasons why you shouldn't take him back. That's right. Well, he doesn't understand the reconcilable offerings at God and the purpose. Because what my point is... Which there is a time to celebrate. Oh, no, it is. Well, Joy is...

First Peter, when it says we're filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy. Because we're receiving, we are receiving the goal of our faith. The point is... Salvation of our souls. Just remember, life itself is pretty tough, and it calls for some rather serious soberness from time to time. It's not a life... I think what's not going to be, what shall I say, jumping up and down all the time.

You say... Well, look, let me give you a story on what I think your point is. Hang on, let's take a break. So look, I had back-to-back events Friday night. Then I was a thousand miles away, I guess, in Indiana, did another one. It was spectacular. And so I'm pretty well as fired up as I can be. But in real life, because all the flights went well, everything, you know, it just sometimes things work out.

You know, the weekend before, the event was good, but everything around it was disaster. So I'm like, you know, everything just went my way. And so even the layovers, I'd have like 10 or 15 minutes and just, bam, we made it. If that had been any delay, I was like, who scheduled this? There's no way we could have pulled this. So I get back. And the pilot comes on. I'm on the last leg from Atlanta to Monroe, and he's like, we're going to be there 20 minutes early.

I thought. I mean, you just can't make this up. We started strong. We're changing the world. You know, God's using us. This is awesome. happy, everything's going great. So we land 20 minutes early.

So we ride up there to the... Nobody's there to let you out. And he says, ladies and gentlemen, keep your seatbelts on. Since we're here early, there's no one here to set up the game. Oh, so many times.

So many times I've been there, Jay. Well, 10 minutes went by. Now 20 minutes went by, which the early part has now evaporated. That's right. So then you're like, well, now we're going to get there because I was thinking we're so close yet so far.

And I was typing this because people were like, are you there? Have you landed? Are you back? I'm like, well, I'm sitting here. But you know, we're doing all this Bible study in the podcast and what popped in my head was that, and to Phil's point, I started getting frustrated here.

I was like, what, are you kidding me? But I thought about that love is patient. Love is patient. And then I just started racking my brain and I thought, I'm really struggling to find something to love right now in this moment. How? So look, another 10 minutes went by. So now we're late.

Now I'm technically late. But look, I'm sitting in the smallest aircraft available for a group of people. And the smallest seat for a person. And everyone, the people are getting restless. Oh, yeah. So you're not going to believe what happens next. This is far from over. So another 10 minutes goes by.

So finally, we get out. And I was thinking, freedom, yes. So we get out. And I got this mask on I've had on for hours. Oh, yeah. So I walk out of the airport. I was like, yes. I can breathe.

Oh, well, I'm in the long-term parking. So I get in my vehicle. And since I didn't check a bag, pro move, you're right out of it. I'm first in line. Right. So I pull out, well, The place where you can put your credit card to pay for your parking, it has a do not enter.

So I have to, there's a person in a window. So I have to go in there. That's a huge thing. So I pull up there, I get my credit, I mean, I have my ticket and I'm holding it out, but the window's kind of tinted a little bit, so I don't really look, but I just have my ticket out the window. Well, an uncomfortable amount of time goes by, and I look. I got to looking through the glass. Nobody there.

No, there's a girl there. She has her head back, her mouth open as wide as it can go. She sounded so. So I thought, I went, hey, nothing. It actually crossed my mind. She might be dead. Yeah, that I thought, we have a problem. So I looked around and I thought, you know, welcome to my brother boys.

Here's a redneck alarm clock for you. I just laid on the horn. So what I didn't realize is she had taken her arms out of, she had a short sleeve shirt on. She had taken her arms out and put them inside her shirt. I guess she was cold. But when I blew that horn, it scared her. And she just started like throwing haymakers inside her shirt, bewild her with her head going back and forth. She had had a rough night.

Look, it's noon. It's not like I came in the middle of the night. It's 12 o'clock in the middle of the day. I was like, what is going on? And look, she looked all bewildered, and she said, why'd you blow the horn? I said, I thought you were dead. She said, I was sleeping. Like, why would you disturb me?

I said, it's 12 o'clock. And we're at an airport, and you're like taking the pavement. I thought, this is real life. I mean, you know, I have been on a spectacular high. And I was angry at first because she was chastising me for blowing the horn. And I was like, what did you call it, redneck alarm? I kept thinking, do your job. But I didn't want to say that.

Right. And I gave her. Was she young? Could you tell? Yeah, she was young. I'd say maybe mid-20s. And I thought, I drove off and I thought, man, life is just hard. I mean, it's hard to have a good attitude and not get mad.

You can't be on a more spiritual high. And I've had two instances here. You went from the mountain to the valley in about 30 minutes. There is a danger. It's mentioned in the Corinthian letter. That's funny. By the grace given me, I say to every one of you, every one of you. This is Romans 12.

Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. There's a time for seriousness. But I think it life is just not, if you, if you buy into the idea, it's just one big celebration. I would say you're kind of missing the point here. You need to be more serious about what has happened. The God of peace is no longer, you're no longer at war with. him there's a time to celebrate but life being what it is you better be get ready for the long hall

the point is life is difficult things don't go your way that's why you have to have peace and joy but you have to be open and willing to celebrate in people coming to jesus which my whole point was if god is the ultimate finder if it's more about him finding us and us realizing what he did and does for that to happen. Then when you read verses like, because I did this thing, I'm going to reveal some mysteries in my speech, and one of them was the mystery of being godly, which is Colossians one, is that Christ is in you. I read Galatians 220, that I have been crucified with Christ, I no longer live, Christ lives

in me. Well, if Christ, the same Christ, who was eaten with tax collectors and sinners who found Zakias and said, I came here to seek and to save, if I'm drawing all men to him, if I'm the one, I'm after human beings in their relationship with God. I want to live with you forever.

If he's in us, to me, we should still be allowing him to use us to get Jesus out. And so part of that is the celebrating when they actually come. But I was more focused on the

whatever we do, whatever talent, whatever gift we have, let's unite in letting God use us to find other humans, just like he did when he was on the earth. Right. And so then I ended it with this, which I was going to ask y'all this question. This is kind of a riddle. Hang on. Let's take a break. Where is the greatest place to treasure hunt? So you've got the riddle question. Where is the greatest place to treasure hunt? Where is the greatest place? Everybody got the question.

You don't have to answer because you're like what. It's kind of a trick question because I should have said who, but I wanted to throw you off. So I just said where. Where is the greatest place to treasure hunt? So I'm going to read you Colossians 2. So all you treasure hunting enthusiast, you'll like this. Feel free to use this. I didn't come up with this myself.

So Colossians 2, verse 2, my purpose, Paul said that they may be encouraged in heart, and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely Christ. Now listen to this. in whom are all in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge so the best place to treasure hunt would be Jesus yeah that's pretty good and to your point that right there the recovery is far more critical than the celebration of it the recovery itself but i do think it's important i mean i do think it's important i mean i do think it's important

important, I mean, you're right. It is more important, the recovery on who's doing the recovering. Because look, I've seen these things where people come to Jesus, but then all of a sudden, that's why I'm real careful about saying, I'm going to share my testimony, and people say, you know, then they just talk about all what they did. Well, the power of all this is what God did, so you could be transformed. It's actually God's testimony in you. I like that. Right, which is what? To Phil's point.

You know what I mean? I'm not celebrating the fact that I went out there and lived like a complete disaster for 20 years. Remember most people, most people who come out of the world, including me, came out of life was in their mind. I looked in my case. I didn't look any deeper than party time. Right. Just party time. Party time.

Well, I learned that there was way more to life than the party. Right. You got to remember people who deal with drugs and alcohol and immorality. Life's just one big party out. Right. But the downside of it is it will get you down on the ground where you end up in a place where others. Well, if you did a little sit-down interview with everybody that Jay's was there with on Friday night, they would tell you the same story over and over again of the same. of the same one as the young brother in Luke 15 where they were literally mired in a place.

That is right. That was destroying them. That is correct. And destroying every relationship they had, everything in jail. You know, a lot of people come to our CR because they're court ordered. Because our system of justice in Washington, Wachdow Parish has recognized that if they can get them to someplace and get them off of these drugs, that they probably won't be repeat, you know, crime offenders. and it'll help their life so they even recognize. Like every judge in our parish has visited our settlement code.

You know that, Jay? I didn't know, but I'm not surprised because it is a difficult thing. You know, it's one, I think it starts off. Yeah, let's go a party. I'm young. And then all of a sudden it becomes consuming. And destructive. And destructive.

And then you've dug such a pit that even hearing what the Lord did for you and responding, you're still going to wake up the next day and have this. pool to go back into the pit. Right. There's a mighty throng out there that have the misguided thinking that, you know, if I do what y'all are saying, you're talking to me to repent of my sins and start living a good moral life. You're taking away all my fun.

Yeah. That's the way they look at it. But destruction is no fun. I mean, I think it's more like, because like one of the guys. Life is more than fun and games and drugs and alcohol and immorality. So we're trying to get people to see that. But I'll tell you one thing. It takes some serious thinking to repent and turn to God and get past the fun stage of it all.

It just takes one day at a time. But there was a guy. So look, this mob comes after the deal. Some of them are crying. Some of them are asking questions. Some of them wanting to take pictures, which is embarrassing. That's what was happening. Because they're like, hey, you're that Duck Dynasty, dude.

I was like, you're just now realizing that? You know, this is after the speech. I'm like, you're just making the connection. But anyway, one guy, I mean, he was just like, being kind of forceful and grab my arm and was like, but what if you can't, I've done something so wrong, I can't forgive myself. So that was his question And he was just looking at me like I said, it ain't about you.

I just spent 40 minutes talking about God forgave you. And that's, by the way, that's it. You see what I mean? It's in that moment, but he was looking like, well, how does that answer? It's a faith issue because you don't believe that God can forgive you for that sin.

That's why I don't even like the term forgive myself. I mean, I know people use it, but by the way, you never found that in scripture. I challenge you to find a place in scripture where it says you're commanded to forgive yourself. It's not in there. Trust me, I've looked because I wrote a book about forgiveness. But the idea about God forgiving us or forgiving one another is all over it.

So what that tells me, Jay, says that when someone says that, they have a faith issue. They can't accept the forgiveness of God. It's not about me forgive myself. It's about me believing God is big enough to forgive me for anything I've done, no matter how bad it is. Well, I had read in the speech. I quoted 1st Corinthians 10 because I did that thing about, because when I said about my perspective was different since I was a kid in their environment. And fortunately, God used that to keep me from having more baggage in my life

because I just, I really believe God's hand was in that. But I did say. To your point is you'll choose one way or the other. I mean, you'll either file an example or not. Let's take our last break. But I did refer to 1 Corinthians 10 where it said no temptation has seized you except what is common to man. Because there's just a temptation, especially in that group, to say, well, yeah, but I was tempted more severely than the common man. That's why it turned out so bad.

So bad. You don't understand what I went through. And I'm like, I'll tell you this, whatever you went through, wasn't near as bad as what Paul slash Saul went through, or these, disciples, I mean, which all of them eventually had their, were martyred and had their heads cut off. And you're just thinking about what they went through. But I just, I think they read that and don't realize it's not about what I went through. The point of that was that God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.

That's what it says. That's what it says. But people, they just don't accept that. Because I'm saying, I went through that. detail in the speech. And that guy's response was, well, what if I can't forgive myself? He threw that passage that I went through. He just threw it under the bus.

Right. But there's a door out. He did forgive you. It's not about you. You need to trust him. But he was like, he was shaking his head. No, when I responded to this. But I would tell this guy, but you know, you're here and you're listening to what

was said. So even though you're not ready to accept it, you're on a faith journey to get there. Well, right. You just have to be. Well, and what's different about that group that I met with, it was a combination of groups. I mean, you couldn't stick another person in there. But I was talking to Rutger, and he's like, some of them aren't even believers. Right.

Because they're through these programs that funnel them through something to. Yeah, they come there basically to stay out of jail. And so, but you're having it. They're hearing it for the first time. All right. You got a lot of people. They're like, oh. What is this now?

But I think it was a, I mean, it was a great event. I don't mind the, I do think when you come together, it should be a celebration. I do think that. I think where the Phil's point is with the piece, you've got to find that day-to-day walking. Because you can't live in the media. You can't live in the pep rally. It's like what I said. I feel like I can't live there.

I could not have been any more saturated. in doing God's will in my mind and everything going great than this past weekend. But like I said, when you get home and you start living life, I mean, that was, I was getting angry, you know, I was getting frustrated. So you just, you have to kind of laugh at yourself, but in a way, you've got to find that peace that, you know, life, life can be difficult here. You know, our friend, Anna, Tomlinson at the marriage retreat a few weeks ago, said so. She and Trey loved to hike.

And we were talking about this experience we had at a marriage review was really great. But she had a great point at the end. She said, you know, Trey and I hike and we get up on top of a mountain. And it's beautiful. I mean, it's like, we made it. You know, it was hard to get here, but we did it. We look around and we enjoy the beauty. And then after about 30 minutes, we start saying, you know, there's no water here.

There's no food. There's no other things we need to survive. We couldn't even spend the night here without being. in a bad shape. So she said, you know what we do? We'd go back down to the, where all that is. You go back down to reality. Right. So our point was, you can't live on the mountaintop. There's not enough to sustain you there. The life is in the valley. And so I thought that was a powerful point for just kind of how we go about it. I do too. Go ahead. I think one of the points, though, to Phil's point, in First Corinthians, so these people had these gifts. And they were, it was

causing excitement because they were the apostles laid their hands on them and they were given them literal supernatural gifts right and so that was causing them to be joyous because it was like oh look at me i mean i can heal people i can speak in languages i haven't studied i can do all these various things but it hit me that while we were talking to this i don't know why this verse popped in my head but in first christians 15 in verse uh 26 If you think about it, what is the greatest cure? If you could come up, like of all the terrible things, and the point I'm trying to make is, let's say you're following Jesus,

you've been transformed, you're going to celebration Sundays every Sunday. You're meeting most days in the week, and then you go to the doctor, and they tell you you got cancer. Trust me, you're not going to be jumping up and down about that. Right. It's a sobering moment. Which is, to Phil's point, you've got to find peace in that because actually there's all kinds of diseases out there. There's moments where you're like, you're now relying on what we're talking about the resurrection,

but you're not jumping up and down about it. You're fixed to go through a lot of pain and suffering. I think about my daughter and she's, most of her life has been filled with pain and suffering. It just hasn't been a joyous occasion that everybody's high-fiving. but to put it back in the context of the letter to the Corinthians, they're having all this excitement without it being on the foundation of Jesus and his death-barrel resurrection. So then he throws in this, but he throws in this one little phrase

that got me to thinking, just here in the last five minutes, when he says the last enemy to be destroyed is death. well the ultimate cure is death itself that's what Jesus that's why having that foundation and what he did through the gospel is bigger than whatever gifts or excitement or whatever you can think of you have all these gifts Jesus is actually curing through his resurrection death well that that's where you find peace and that's where you should find excitement right And that has to be enough. Think about it.

When you come to Jesus, it has to be serious enough to where you look around at the group you've been running with, party time. And you say to them, all of your companions, bad company corrupts good morals, stops in. For there are some of you who are ignorant of God. I say this to your shame. and bad company corrupts good character. It's in there because all these people were jumping up and down and misusing the gifts and all that.

Well, there's a mighty throng of them in there. They were still running with the people they ran with before it all started. I see it over and over. They don't make the clean break from their former associates. They're in the rehab. Their friends have not been there yet, but it's hard for them to just say, I died to all that and it's over. I'm done with that.

I mean, it takes some soberness of judgment of the heart before you really start seeing what this is all about. Life is more. I say again, I've spoken to thousands of them through the years. The problem is making a clean break from the world and be humbly, be humble to your God who just saved you. In other words, you can celebrate without just hard to be with your former associates. Well, you remember in the story that Jason started with in Luke 15 when the younger brother was there and he's looking at his surroundings and he's thinking, you know, I could beat this.

And he thought even if I went back home, it won't be pleasant because I really messed it up there. but this said then he got up first he had an awareness then he got up yep and left so to your point he left where he was yep to go back where there was security and and what he knew and and he didn't even have an expectation of the grace that he received remember he was like i'm just be a hired hand whatever i don't expect to be a son but what god gave him to your point jays was grace and he said oh no you are a son because you came home you are a son you get the full rights as a son you get the full rights as a which I thought you started off brilliantly by comparing yourself to the older brother because in that story, if you're going to be one of the two, you don't want to be that guy and live that way because that's what the Pharisees were doing. Back to the first two verses.

Exactly. And it was a TBD on the older brother. The story just ends with him being bitter. The words, if you monitor the behavior of the people who were jumping up and down right here, three hours later, now instead of seven o'clock, it just got dark. that's 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night. You say, well, where are a lot of them? Right. They're back to the ones, they're back to where they started.

It's trouble. But also, there's a bunch of older brothers in buildings called churches. Oh, yeah. That have removed themselves from the world. I don't want to be in that camp either. That is correct. I want to see those life chances. There's a balance in there.

So I just made an editorial decision that in our overtime, I want to describe the sort of evolution of our celebrity. recovery how it came about. I think it'll help this discussion to see where we've tried to go with that. And then next time on regular, we'll pick back up in 15. Let's do that in overtime. BlazTV.com slash unashamed is where you get unashamed overtime. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get any

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