Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 455 | Miss Kay Teases Phil That She May Still Be a Baptist Girl & Jase Questions His Old Job

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

Jase and Phil are joined again by guest Gordon Dasher to discuss Paul's letters to the church of Corinth. Jase describes the most credible witness taking the stand to testify on your behalf, and Gordon points out the humor and sarcasm in some of Paul's letters. Phil tells a funny story about Miss Kay and her misplaced letter of membership, and Gordon identifies the difference between following the law and obeying God through your heart. Al shares where true confidence really comes from, and Jase describes the time God gave him a platform that he didn't feel qualified to take. Sign up to watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So just so the audience will know the rat discussion, as long as it was in the last podcast, continued on in between podcasts. We think we got him lined out, so we're happy. We have a plan. We have a plan.

Mr. Robertson, tear down that wall. Yeah. And we didn't even get into this stuff we were talking about off-camera about how dangerous, like dead rats. can be because they're very disease heavy you know so when it's not a good thing to have around you for sure exactly so I had so I had a question from a listener and I thought it'd be an interesting way to to lead in today before we get back into our text in second Corinthians three and uh it's just an interesting question it was from he said I was hoping to get y'all's take on

matthew 24 35 it says heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away and he says he's confused about the term heaven will pass away he's and then he said isn't heaven eternal what do you think jesus meant by this this might be a good discussion to list to on the podcast so uh i was going to get your take on that that concept because i had a verse actually in well you got to remember one thing is i think from a from a language standpoint Hebrew and Greek. When you see the phrase heaven and earth

it was always used as a new order of things. That phrase translated so it may there are examples I cannot remember them off the top of my head but Al maybe you can

where the phrase heaven and earth will pass away when it didn't mean the actual literal heaven and earth but it was a new change. It's kind of like when Jesus came and fulfilled the law, died on a cross and was resurrected. Well, there was a new heaven and earth in play from that moment on. That's one take.

The other take is I just got two texts here. Hebrew chapter 1. In the beginning, this is about verse 10, in the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundation. of the earth and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain. They will all wear out, the heavens and the earth, they'll all wear out like a garment.

You, God now, will roll them up like a robe, like a garment. They will be changed. So there's a big change coming, but you remain the same in your years will never end that's hebrew chapter one that said the whole thing's going to wear out and be swept away and start all over again take it or leave it well very good point phil but my point is look you remember the passage that we're going to get to in second corinthians where paul said he knew someone who was called up to the third heaven oh i was actually turned to there and i was going to make that same point because in jewish literature jays first of all you're

about your assessment because that's mentioned in the Old Testament and the new about this idea of newness. But the Jews looked at it from the standpoint of the heaven had three components. And Paul mentions the third heaven, which would be where God is. Then you've got what we would call the universe, I mean, everything outside of our atmosphere being the second heaven. And the first one was basically the sky, I mean, you know, within our atmosphere. I mean, I've applied the scientific terms, but that's the way they viewed it.

There were three levels. Well, I'm with you, but you got one. My second verse, you have to do something with it. Second Peter chapter three, people say, where is this coming? Where is Jesus? Where is this coming? He promised, verse four. I mean, second Peter three.

I thought Jesus was going to show up. This guy was asking that. They were scoffering and following their own evil desires. You know, he ain't coming. they'll say, where is this coming, he promised. Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation. But they deliberately forget that long ago, by God's word, and the heavens existed, and the earth was formed out of water and with water.

That's Genesis chapter one, the first few verses. By water also, here comes the flood. the world of that time was deluged and destroys. He's given you a history lesson. I read it and take it seriously. By the same word, the present heavens, the ones we're now looking at and earth, the one we're riding on at about 66,000 miles an hour, by the way,

going around the sun. We'll make a trip of 584 million miles by the time we get around where we started. I mean, just for a note. Being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of unguided men. Do not forget this one thing, my friends. With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. So nobody knows when this is going to take place. The Lord's not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slownies.

He's with you, not wanting, he wants you to, he's patient. And he, not wanting anyone to pay. Yeah, he wants everyone to be safe. everyone to come to repentance and uh-oh but the day of the lord will come like a thief that means no predictions the first thing out of his mouth the heavens will disappear with a roar do with it with what you want the elements will be destroyed in the fire and the earth and everything in it so here's heaven's here will be laid bare everything will be destroyed that way and he ends up by said but in keeping with this promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of

righteousness. Okay. I'm thinking one of these days, the whole thing is going to disappear with a roar. It's going to be cleaned out and all evil is gone. However, because of God's promise to give us eternal life, he's going to make us a new heaven and a new earth. Changed, but not exchanged. Agreed.

And he's going to do that where we're going to live eternally. and whether there's duck cutting there or not, I do not know. I agree. I agree with your assessment. However, I do think in the case of Noah and the art, and I've had many arguments about this and discussions in love, that was once the earth was destroyed by water, there was a new heaven and a new earth.

It was a new order of things, going back to the phraseology that is used in the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the case of Matthew 24, I personally believe, I realize a lot of people disagree with me, that he was pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 as a new order of things for the Jewish nation. They would no longer be gathered around in this temple because there weren't two stones left on another. In this case, in the 2nd Peter 3, I agree with you. I think it's talking about the new order of things at Jesus coming back, which will be a new heaven and a new earth. But even if people disagree with me on where you're applying the new order, the point is it's more important to be

with God forever. When you think about it, that's where I get this fundamental principle that I think is important. If you focus on who you're with instead of where we're going, you're going to be way better off not only with purpose on this life, but way more confident in wherever, however you live eternally. It's who you're with. I've said this many times throughout many podcasts. If you go on a trip, what's your first thought? Who's going? It's more important than where you're going. Because if you go with your enemies, you're not going to have a good time. I don't care if you go to the greatest place on earth. So I think that's his point.

That's why if I will read one verse to go along with my argument, where he says that he quote. While you're looking for that, Jason, you think about it to prop your point, you know, before a kid or going a youth group trip, the first question they have is who all's going. Who else is going before I commit? The verse I was going to read is what we'll get to in 2 Corinthians 6 when he's talking about not being yoked with unbelievers.

You know, what harmony is there between wickedness and righteousness? Well, then he makes this little statement when he says, for we are the temple of the living God, as God has said, I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they will be my people. that's ultimately the goal of eternal life so a lot of people when they when they're given various sermons on heaven which is great i'm i love to use our imagination to imagine whether we're going to duck on or whether what are we going to do and how it will be and it's fun and exciting but don't miss the point it's more important to realize that you're going to be with god forever

And then he goes on to quote this verse from 2nd Samuel in verse 18 that says, I'll be a father to you and you'll be my sons and daughter, says the Lord God Almighty. That relationship aspect of the Eternal Father, I think, is the more important issue, no matter how you apply the phrase, new heaven and new earth, to which context throughout the history and beginning of time. Yeah, I would just simply say, currently, currently right now, as I'm speaking, there's a, there's a cosmos that's relatively, it's turbulent now. You get out of among these planets, the stars blowing up, and isn't that? No, all that is turbulent. In the middle of all that, we're spinning like a top at 1,040 miles an hour. One thousand, 40 miles an hour. I have no sensation. of movement right now. Yeah. But I'm spinning like a top

and I'm on a planet. It's called planet Earth. Unlike Mercury and Venus Earth and Mars, unlike those, they've looked at them. They can find no life and no water. Only here. So this thing is traveling like a spinning like a top

and it's going 66,700, I think it is, miles an hour as it's going around the sun. This is the world, the cosmos order right now. We're going around the sun. It takes 365 days, give it take a few hours, leap year, whatever. But you say, we travel in 500 this year, 60 million miles, is it 584 million miles? We're going to travel this year until we get around where we started.

I'm just saying it has a tilt of 23 and. a half degrees. If any of those things got out of kilter, if you mess with any of those speeds and distances, it's chaos of the highest order. That thing, this thing is precise. You're right.

That's going to pass. And a whole new system like that, where it happened to Mercury, what happened to Venus? I'm not quite sure. But we're not with them anymore. But something's going to happen to this planet, according to Peter,

that's beyond its new heavens and a new earth. But here's my point. But here, I think you're missing my point. The question was based from Matthew 24. And what was the verse? 35. It says, heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. My point is, if you just back up, realizing that that phrase represents a new order.

If you back up to Matthew 24 and you read the first two. verses. He says, Jesus left the temple and was walking away with his disciples, and he came up, and his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. He wasn't talking about the earth, or he's like, look, here are these buildings in Jerusalem. And Jesus said, do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another. Everyone will be thrown down. Now, he goes into a lot of apocalyptic language during this long speech, and then he gets to verse 33 and says,

even so when you see all these things, because he talked about in 29, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaking. He says that in 29, But you got to remember, this conversation started on him saying, look, see this building here? Not one stone will be left on another. So then he gets to 33, and he's like, even so when you see all these things, you know that it is near right at the door.

I tell you the truth. Now, here's the phrase on why I have this opinion. This generation, so he's talking to these guys at the foot of the temple saying this place is going to be destroyed. I'm saying you're exactly right. But we're discussing two different things here. But that's why I'm trying to clarify. In answering the question, my exact answer would be, when he used this phrase, heaven and earth will pass away, I think he means this order in this context of Jerusalem, this temple being here.

When you went to First Peter, I think the new order of eternal life, that's what he's discussing. but I do think there's a difference. I think you are correct. You're both right. It's just different contexts. Let's take a break. Well, that was why I was trying to answer the question that way, because I think that's where all the confusion goes in.

And I realize that some people apply what Phil is saying to every place that New Heaven, and New Earth is mentioned, even in Matthew 24. I mean, look, I would probably say more religious people teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the final coming of Jesus. I would be with you on that. That's not correct. He wasn't discussed in the end of the world. The end of us.

Well, the confusion comes in from verse 30 of Matthew 24 because it says the sign of the son of man will appear in the sky and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and glory. I simply think that that means he came in fulfillment of his prediction that he had just said, where he allowed this to happen to this temple in Jerusalem. Because, I mean, it's hard to get around, verse 34, when he said, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I mean, it sure seems like to me he was saying, This instance is going to happen here in Jerusalem. And just so happens in AD 70, his fulfillment, I mean, the fulfillment of what he said did happen. There was a new order. There was a new heaven and earth per se happen after that moment, which I do think was a shadow, just like the Israel, God dwelling with the Israel nation, the nation of Israel, was a shadow to God dwelling with all people that were all the nation of God, I believe that same shadow will happen when he comes back.

We'll all be gathered. This earth will... By the way, Jase, the Apostle Paul brings up in chapter 3, 2nd Corinthians 3-5, he has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant. the New World Order is what the way you put it in Matthew not of the letter that's fixing to disappear with 70 AD which which is to your point not of the letter nope the law of Moses nope for the letter kills the law of Moses kills law kills not not saved but the spirit gives life so he brings that up right there what you just said he's talking about Matthew 24

I didn't introduce him because he's on the podcast again on this podcast. We've got Gordon here with us. So Gordon, what's your take on this question? Well, I was going to say that verse 35, I'm an English teacher. And that's a compound sentence that contrasts heaven and earth with the words of Jesus. And he said, the one is going to pass away, the other is not. but it it follows this whole thing in Matthew 23 where he just rips the Pharisees and the teachers of the law because they basically worshipped the temple of God instead of the God of the temple.

That's why he rebuked him so harshly. So you've got, and then he's, and I agree with Jason, I think he's predicting to them that all of this stuff that you worship, this temple of God that you value so much as coming to a screeching halt. But he's pointing them, which is comforting to me, to something better that's more eternal and lasting, and that's his words. So I don't know if he means all of his words. I kind of think he does, like going all the way back to Matthew chapter, two, I think maybe three, when he starts to talk, going through the sermon on the Mount, that stuff's

never going to change. Blessed are the poor and spirit, that's never going to change. Blessed or the merciful, the peacemakers. None of that ever changes. It's always going to be the same way. And so what I think he's saying is, like, if you're seeking the things of this world like these guys over here, and I just imagine him kind of referenced, because that is how the chapter starts out right.

When is this after he gets to rebuke in these Pharisees, then the disciples said, hey, when's this going to happen? And that's when he goes into this long discourse on the end of the age. but I just want to be personally I want to be the guy and I'm not there yet but I want to be the guy that's totally focused on the eternity of the God of the temple and not the things about God. I don't want to be worshiping the things about God. I want to be worshiping the God of all things. So I think that's where he's pointed this year.

I think that's the practical application whether you agree with our assessment or not. You don't want to miss the final result which I mean, My thought about those, his words will dwell forever is I've always thought the reason John referred to Jesus as the word, because he's the communication of God. You think we can't relate to a God who can, this big. The centerpiece. But if he's the communication and his word lasts forever, we will always have communication with God because of who Jesus is. The centerpiece of the law of Moses was the temple. In chapter three of 2 Corinthians, right up above what we're saying,

you yourselves are our letter written on our hearts. Listen to this, known and read by everybody. This is 2nd Corinthians 3. Before Jesus came and his kingdom was established, the new world order came, you show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry written not with ink, this is not like the law of Moses, but with the spirit of the living God.

Not on tablets of stone. That's the law and the temple represented the law, written code. In this case, he said, it's written on tablets of human hearts, and therefore that is the difference. We are under a new system of governance, and it is free, of the written code. He canceled the written code. He's basically saying in 2nd Corinthians

chapter 3 the written code no longer written on tablets of stone. We tried that. God tried that with us. Well how many came out of there saved? You're like a just a handful. But from Jesus's arrival the king, repent the kingdom all through the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It keeps. going over and over and over repent for the kingdom is near the kingdom it's a different kingdom our king is jesus we're not under law what's been written for us is in our hearts so you're like we're under grace you take that and read what jesus told the samaritan woman remember when she said we're going to worship uh well we must worship is in jerusalem and in 21 he said believe me

woman a time is coming when you will worship the father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. What was you referring to? The temple. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know for salvation is from the Jews, yet a time is coming and has now come. It's almost like a new order.

When the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The letter kills and the Spirit gives life. 2nd Corinthians 3-6. That's it, Jay, is right there. I just think Jesus laid that foundation there. Then later in Matthew's account, he got into detail about it. It does cause confusion. You don't have to agree with how we're getting there,

but you do agree with the final analysis, which is what Gordon referred to, is you put your faith in trust in the God of the temple, because temple's come and go. And instead of the temple that was in, that was destroyed by the Roman Empire, we now are the temple. Exactly. It's mind-bending. Both individually and collectively.

So let's take another break. So in the macro picture of back to 2nd Corinthians 2 and 3, which Dad made the great bridge to get us there, because it is exactly talking about the same thing. Yep. You know, in the last podcast, it was the smell. remember it was like what was the way you put it dad they need to smell you coming they need to smell you coming by the way i think that's going to be a new t-shirt somewhere down the line but uh and then the second you never know so so you got the smell but then we didn't read verse one which i think it's again paul has this this little sarcasm that comes up from time to time

which i particularly love because i'm sarcastic are we beginning to commend ourselves again before leading into what we just talked about or do we need like some people letters of recommendation to you or from you it's almost like it's a little inside sarcasm like are you going to have to write us a letter but then he makes the point before it was the smell

now it's you are a living letter of recommendation that's it which I find that to be fascinating when you think about it I mean we had the smell before so they need to smell you coming but also they need to be able to read your letter are you living in such a way that it's obvious you were being led by the spirit and not by anything else? So I love this idea of us being like living letters of recommendation for what Christ did in us.

Which is drastically opposed to people saying, I don't like what's going on at this church. I'm going to move my letter. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've already referred to that. You know, we have, I think this backwards about us. You know, when Jesus told his disciples post-resurrection, you're going to be my witnesses here. And he was, you know, he poured out the spirit.

And then they went out and shared Jesus. So somebody came up with this, you know, my witness. I'm going to be a witness. And, you know, I love how Paul referred to himself when he said in 23, I call God as my witness. Now, you think about it. If you viewed, your Christian faith will fundamentally change. when you're on the stand, being confronted, feeling like you're surrounded, and you're calling God as your witness.

That's a powerful moment because it's like what he said in 1st, Corinthians 8, 3. When you love God, you realize that you're known by God, him knowing you, him speaking on your behalf, shows you that you have given your heart to him, and you're not trying to pull the wool over his eyes by acting one way in a building and acting totally different. out in the real world. Your mother told me one day, she said, well, I guess when you look at it, I guess maybe technically I'm still a Baptist. I said, hey, figure that in this case.

She said, I never moved my letter. I said, you never moved one. I never moved my letter. What does that mean? What is the letter? I never figured that out. Al, do you know? Not really.

But, you know, I always laugh because it's like there's got to be. because somebody may be listening that. Oh, I can guarantee you if people are listening, though, but it's a vault. It's a vault somewhere full of letters, I suppose. So, Jay's, why you're looking that up? I think your name is on a ledger somewhere in the addled, in the, in the bowels. It's got to be a specific church place, you know. But again, this is another example.

Once we get in, start down this rabbit hole about what makes you a member of this place, that place. I mean, once you start parsing. it down to this level, this is what you get into, as opposed to a little bit higher view of kingdom living, which is kind of been our point on the podcast. Not that, you know, people are members wherever they're members, but I got it. I don't know if I should read it or not, but I'll read it. You brought it out. A church membership transfer letter is a document that shows a church member will be

transferred to another church organization. How is that possible? Anyway, this is an important document because it shows dedication and respect to the previous organization and to the new one. That's it. I tried that once, and the new church sent the letter back. They didn't read rejection. So if I may read something, the first sermon ever preached post-resurrection, Peter got up, he shared Jesus. What happened?

People responded. They were cut to the heart. They said, what do we do? He said, repent and be baptized, every one of you. And then you get down to this one little phrase at the end of that section. If I can piece my Bible together for this one moment. Verse 47, remember everybody had everything in common. They were filled with awe.

And all these wonders and signs were happening. They were sharing. and they were meeting every day, praising God and enjoying the favor. In 47, it says, And the Lord added to the church daily those who are being saved. So you see my point? I do. I think the Lord is in charge of adding you to the church.

Yeah, he does the counting. He does the counting. So if anybody's going to do any moving the letter, he would have to move it. Yeah. And I just told your mama when she told me that I laughed. And I said, well, you little Baptist, you close enough. But we both made sure, you know, this old thing about waiting three months before we be baptized. She said, no, let's just go ahead and do what Peter said.

Well, I just think the main point is the Lord is in charge of this. You know, and when you read the tie in with the St. Corinthians 3, I've never really talked about the law. letter here, but I think it's an interesting point. But you think about it, it really does fit the context, yes, because if we're going back to an actual physical letter, we're kind of going back to the stone tablet again. It's got to, then you're making it something structured that we, we were talking earlier about how Al and I were, I think it was Al and me, talking about how the default position of humanity is to go to the tablets of stone.

Which what we're really looking for is what are the limits here? How far do I have to go? And how far can I go before I actually break the law? So you wind up with stuff like, how many times should I forgive my brother seven times, which is what the Pharisee said. And Jesus said, nah, 490 times.

It's limitless. And so I thought about this a lot, like the difference between stone tablets, like you were talking about, and the letter written on my heart. And I used to tell Jan this, And because she's, I mean, she was a robberson, so there was, you know, there was some weird stuff going on in her head. But godly, I mean, just amazing, just an amazingly godly woman.

I mean, I woke up one night. She wasn't in bed with me. I went in the kitchen down there on the river. She had her Bible out three in the morning. I said, what are you doing? She said, I had a dream about the scripture. And I wanted to write it down before I forgot it. And I said, I just had a dream.

I was killing terrorists. And your dream in Scripture, that's how she was. But I used to tell her, I don't, I'm not faithful to you because you're a good woman, even though you are. I'm not faithful to you because there's a law that says, be faithful to your wife. I'm faithful to you because the gospel is written on my heart. Christ died for me. It's implanted.

This is written on my heart. Treat other people the way. that God has treated you. And when that message is on your heart, you don't need tablets of stone. It's already there. It's way bigger. I think it's more constraining,

but not in a negative way. It's more constraining in the sense that I'm really, I'm really grateful for God's grace and mercy. And so I'm going to live my life out in reflection of what he's done for me. And it's going to take me to, it's going to take me to higher, way higher places than if I just have,

a tablet of stone a law. Exactly. I think that's why... Hang on, Jay's. Let's take a break. I think that's why he said, and this is a key moment, that your letter is from Christ. I mean, Jesus is the one that wrote our letter, because then he goes on to say in verse six that he's made us...

Reverse four. Reverse four first. Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. So we get, he writes the letter, through that we get confidence. That came from Christ, not us. But then he goes on to say, and I think this is real important, verse 5 and 6, not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves. It's not your letter.

It's his letter. Or your witness to your point earlier. Yeah, that's where we get our confidence. But our competence comes from God. He has made as competent as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. But what I think is important here is if you read the definition of competence here, because it's a word that just kind of goes over our head. But just think about what God is providing when you consider the definition of competence. The ability to do anything successful or efficiently.

You just think about that. We get that from God, the ability to be successful or efficient. That comes from God, not us. I mean, is that not what he's saying? You know what? When you were reading that, I thought you said confidence. Confidence. I know.

I know. I thought you said confidence. And then I thought, you know what? That's exactly the point I was trying to make. If I'm a stone tablet kind of guy, my confidence, even though I play these little, do these little mental gymnastics and I think, you know, I'm really obeying the law, but in my heart, I know that I'm not.

I know that in my mind, in my heart, I'm sinful. So if my confidence is in that, I'm never going to be competent because I'm always aware of my own shortcomings. But if my confidence is in the God that died for me and was raised from the dead on my behalf, then I am competent because I realize exactly what you just read. It's not about me. It's about what he's done for me and where he's led me.

Yeah, I think that's why you have to define the word. That is his point. You're confident because Christ is making you successful. And that's how you get all this view on life. I mean, look, I was intimidated when we first did our first TV show because I thought, you know, I don't have any kind of skill set. I mean, what can I do? I mean, where, what, what, what, what, I just rely.

Yeah, I'm not an actor. Yeah, I'm not an actor. I can't, yeah. But you realize your peace in all that is that, okay, well, evidently God has given us a platform to do this. Well, I'm just going to, I'm going to rely on his knowledge and wisdom about life. And so when, because you do, one thing you don't realize, uh, for people that have not been on TV. is the number one thing you do for the show are interviews. I mean, they ask you thousands of questions. They only run a couple here and there.

But there all the time, you find yourself standing up, and they're saying, what about this? What about that? What about that? What about this? And you're like, well, most of it's off the top of your head. So that's when I find moments like, I mean, some of the best things I've ever said on TV,

It didn't come from me. It was something I read in the Bible somewhere as a clarification to the meaning of life. Or, you know, it's the one off the top of my head that I've mentioned before. We were in some context and they were asking me about something. And I was like, you know what? If you don't know what you're doing, do it quickly. And people laugh. I said, boy, that's funny.

Where do you come up with that? Well, Jesus told that to Judas right before he's betrayed. He's like, whatever you need to do, do it. it quickly because you just didn't know what he was doing i didn't come up with that on my own i'll find that that scripture by the way a what we read that paul wrote to the corinthians in second corinth chapter three the difference between law and grace when he's talking to the romans he said i find this law at work this is uh 721 when i want to do good now this is believers. This is a guy saved by grace. When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

Now, as we go forward, it's a evil is always near. Yep. For in my inner being, I delight in God's law. He sees the code. The codes of wonderful code if everyone obeyed it. But however, everyone breaks it. But I see another law at work in the members of my body waging war against the law, my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. And he says, because of that, he said, what a wretched man I am, who will rescue me from this body of death. He's making a point about what he's saying in 2nd Corinthians chapter 3. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I myself in my mind, I'm a slave to God's law. But in the sinful nature, a slave to the law of sin, you have to be under grace knowing that your sins are paid for. He didn't have that until he met Jesus. He had just the opposite, and he outlines it. And he said, it's a wretched way to, it's a wretched person who can't be at peace or doesn't realize they're at peace because of Jesus. and the blood he shared for us. So it's... Which is why I feel a wicked person like you or me

can stand up and boldly proclaim the message of the gospel. That's right. Because you realize it's not about me. It's not what I did. All I did, the only thing that separates you from the worst sinner in the world is who you put your faith in. And it keeps you from saying,

I know I can earn this, but you can't. You can't. Hang on, Dad. Let's take a break. It's a gift, free gift. Which goes back to the comment he made in chapter 1 and 10 when he says, I think it's in 10. No, in verse 9, but it says, but this happened, the second part of 9, that we might not rely on ourselves, but the God who raises the dead. That's it.

I mean, that was the thrust. That's it. Because he was talking about you're going to have hardships if you go out there and declare Jesus is Lord. It's coming, suffering, hardship. But you don't have to rely on yourself. So now in this last section, I want to get to this in our last segment here in a little bit in our overtime. He's going to illustrate this point that we've been making, I think, in a good way, with the idea of glory that comes from this.

covenant, this idea of us trusted in Christ. And it's a really interesting one. And I just want to read this text, and then we'll talk about it. In verse 7 of chapter 3, it says, now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters or stone, so he's kind of summing everything up, came with glory so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory fading though it was will not the ministry of the spirit be even more glorious for if the ministry that condemns men is glorious how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness for for what was glorious had no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory and if what was fading away came with glory how much greater is the glory of that which lasts so he's making this comparison

Therefore, at verse 12, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. And that's in Exodus 33 and 34, which I thought we'd talk a little bit about when we get to overtime. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is red. It has not been removed because only in Christ is it taken away. even to this day when Moses is red a veil covers their hearts but whenever anyone turns to the Lord

the veil is taken away now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom and we who with unveil faces all reflect the Lord's glory are being transformed into his likeness with ever increasing glory which comes from the Lord who is the Spirit

yes that's a lot of stuff yeah I'm telling you should should start off, because most people probably, I mean, we have a lot of people that are new to the faith or checking this out. How would you explain where he said the old ministry, the old covenant brought death and condemns men? Because most people are what does that mean? Yeah, so Moses went up Mount Sinai and you remember when he first came down with the first stone tablets, he gets down there and there's just pagan revelry. going on at the bottom of the mountain.

They said, we don't know where there's, Moses, who he is, and they just went into full-blown. I mean, while they're waiting for the first covenant. So, you know, it shows you that even they didn't get a chance to see what it was. In the second go-around, once there was punishment and all these things happened, Moses goes back up, and it's the second set of stones, but it's actually the ones that are last. But it was written, but when the Lord passed by is the way the Bible puts it,

whatever that means. He hid Moses in between two rocks because he said, you can't even look at my glory as I pass by. And so when he did that to provide these stone tablets with the law on it, Moses comes down from the mountain. Well, guess what? Just by being in proximity to the deity and the wonder of God, the Father, he lit up like a Christmas tree.

He was glowing. And so, but then this is Raiders of the law. This is Raiders of the Lost Ark. type stuff on steroids that's yeah because it actually happened it wasn't a movie so going forward every time moses would have a you know a little confab with the almighty he would come out glowing but then the glow would fade so he actually put the veil over his face so that the Israelites wouldn't see the fading of the glow in other words he didn't want them to become discouraged so that's the context of what he's talking about and you realize without just

Jesus is death on the cross and resurrection, you have no grace for breaking one of the commandments, and you certainly have no plan of resurrection if you just have tablets of stone. Let's say you keep most of them, because nobody can keep all of them, right? How does that still bring life to you? Your position, you know that everyone who sins breaks the law. We're all guilty. In fact, sin is lawlessness. We're all guilty.

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him, here's the position factor. In him, where your position is, is no sin. You're in Jesus. You say, that's the reason he came. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning because they understand their position is once you find out all your sins are removed

by the blood of Jesus, by the grace of God, for some strange reason, you don't sin as much. I wonder why. Because you're thankful. Yeah. But my point is, why do religious groups today try to still go under a written code? slash law slash system of work.

Look, it's still going on today. Still going on. How do you read this and say, you know what? I think we need to go back to that old system. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. Let's see. If they see love on a consistent basis, joy, peace, patience. That you're all friends in the spirit, which is this point.

If they see that, they're like, I'm beginning to get it. By the way, against such things, there is no law. Exactly. That's it. What was you going to say, Gordon? I was going to say, I've always wondered what this veil is, whether it's just a natural veil. But, I mean, people who are disciples of Christ, followers of Jesus today read the law, and the veil's not there.

So what is the veil? And I thought, well, maybe it's this veil that the false, it's the false promise that somehow I can keep this code of law in a way that justifies me before God, even though while I'm reading it and comparing it to my life, I know that I'm not keeping it. So I don't know what it is, but I know that it's got to have something to do with the false promise that somehow I can justify myself before God by following this code of law. Not that the law was bad. It's good to follow the code of the law. It's good. But it's better.

In fact, it's, you know, it's what he's talking about here, this ministry of reconciliation because it's in all of our, it's in the back of all of our minds that I'm alienated from God. I'm separated from him. And as a believer, you know, used to back in the day, like you were talking about, and one of the podcasts recently, one of the elders would say,

how many did you have? Like it was, how many did you share with this week? How many did you have at your Bible study? And it was almost like an obligation. But if you think about it, I've got the greatest story in the entire history of the world to tell people. And what an honor it is to say to people who are caught up in sin, look, I want to tell you about somebody that can free you up from your addiction to self-righteousness, somebody that can give you freedom from condemnation and put you into the throne room of. God where you can approach him unashamedly, and you could go before him with confidence just by bowing down before him and admitting that your attempts at self-justification have been a

failure, but that what Christ did for you on the cross and in the resurrection, all your hope and confidence is in that. It's an amazing ministry that we've been given. The problem with the law is whoever keeps the whole law, a lot of command. and yet stumbles at just one point. One point. It's guilt you're breaking all of it. You're like, oh, my goodness, get me out from under that. Do we have good news or what?

I mean, this is great news. So we're out of time. A couple of things before we head over to OT. I've got a theory about the veil, so I want to share that in the overtime. Oh, I wanted to get into that myself. Okay, good, good. Go with it, Jay.

Come with us on that to blazedv.com slash unashamed. I want to mention a couple of things before we leave. this podcast. A reminder, field.substack.com. A lot of, dad's got a lot of great content there. Don't forget about uncanceled, what you can get on Amazon or wherever you like to buy books, and be sure and leave a review. Also, the C++ gospel, which we mentioned from time to time, which is our mission arm of what we try to do, is at cplus ministries.com. So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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