Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 464 | Missy Gives Jase a Silly New Nickname & Phil Uncovers Just How Ignorant Leaders Can Be

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

Jase receives a new nickname from his wife, and Phil points out the ignorance of leaders who unknowingly fulfilled God's plan. Jase intercepts punishment for his brothers in stories from the past, and Phil expounds on how humanity justifies sin, yet contributed to the cross. Al makes three big points about believing, belonging, and behaving. And Willie's pond turns up a gargantuan fish! Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So it is a Monday for us recording. And we got Easter. Sunday was yesterday. And we were all three in different places, which is kind of interesting. So I want everybody to tell their experience or kind of what you thought about yesterday. I had a couple of weird things I noticed. So we were leaving early. and the traffic was so bad.

It was incredible. Because there's a church up on the hill right past our neighborhood. They were letting out. I guess they had multiple services going. And so I could tell everybody was first getting kind of frustrated, but then I think I said, I said, but you know this is a good problem. When you got traffic jam on Easter Sunday morning, that's a good thing.

Same thing here and where I was. It was, and look, going and coming home, it was just traffic. And I thought, whoa, what a, what a joy this is. I mean, we let people out. Everybody's like, nobody's blowing the horn. We sat in a lot, one light, I bet it went through five cycles before we got to turn. You know, most time you're like, what in the world? But I thought, well, I'm feeling, I'm feeling a lot better about this community.

But, so we, you know, we had to. good time we had all our family in all my my two sons and because now i'm a grandpa now yeah oh i got breaking news on that guess guess what everyone was calling me you know first they said paul because they they stayed with it four or five days jason lone wolf mcclade now no ace jace so what what what what what they thrown it started off with paul and i was like she had no response to that And I was like, I'm not old enough for that. Let's ease into that. Plus, all of our memories of our Paul, it was like he was an old man the whole time.

Yeah. For whatever reason. That's how you do. So, you know how they all do the baby talk, which I'm, it's kind of like, you know, when you're first converted, you have trouble singing out loud. I'm having trouble with the. Go-go-go. Yeah, the, as my wife now, she's like, drank the. Maybe talk Kool-Aid and spends half the time just, look, oh, my goodness, oh, goodness.

I can't even do it. It's like a, it is its own language. There's one positive thing about age, and you all are going to see this. You're on the edges now when they start, you know, papal, Paul, you know, now I found out one thing. And I am taking full advantage of it. When you get older, I guess you could say old, the way our culture looks at it. As an old man, I can get away with a whole lot more than I used to. People listen more carefully when the older you get, you talk about a serious subject, and they listen closely.

closely. I noticed that when I was younger, no. Yeah, but now since you can't hear also, even if people, if you weren't getting away with it, if you weren't getting away with it, you would never know it. See what I mean? I think that's, maybe that's why it happens that way.

Maybe the Lord intended for that all along. I think there's some truth to that. But anyway, Missy finally went, she called me J-Rock, and I thought, Is this actually catching on? Yeah, I've heard of that, well, J. Rock, you know, now you're getting into the rapper type. No, there's no rapper name. I'd stay away from that. Jay Rock.

Jay Rock, you know. Well, because Jay's like rock. I like rock. So this is a way to include it, J-Rot. Yeah, so that was what I became on the weekend, which I was pretty excited about. Yeah, that's. But I don't know if you're, it means you're a rapper, but. So I want to go through, I didn't, I didn't pay attention during the sermon yesterday.

And I'm sure it was good because everybody seemed like it was. You know how every once in a while you get, you get to running a thread. Yeah, I've ran my own thread. I think, I've done it before. So I'll lay that on you in a minute. But I have one other thing. I thought, you know, it's been a great day. I got all my kids here.

We're celebrating the resurrection. I'm going to go catch some fish over at Willie's Pine because I knew he was out of town. and I thought that'll cap the day off, you know, with some crappy. So I go over there and I didn't have much luck. I mean, I caught one 30 minutes later. I caught another one, but it was, then it became, well, I guess I'm trying to catch me some fish. Because the family has been weeded out during the process. But finally it was right before dark and I get a hit, set the hook,

And I think it's one of these big old bass because I call a lot of bass, but I was, you know, I'm going for the crappy. I was throwing a bass back. So I'm sitting there. Heart's not in it because I'm like, here's one of these big eight, seven, eight pound bass, which most people would be like, oh, but what are you going to do with him? Yeah. All I'm going to do is throw him right back.

It's not fitting the cross. Willie's created this lake now that has these big bass. So I'm just, I mean, letting him finish. He's running, not coming up. So about a minute. into this thing, it comes out up there and I'll look and I'm like, that's a cropy. A giant, a giant. The biggest one I've gotten a hold of. So now my adrenaline starts pumping because I'm like, I can feed, I mean, at least Missy and my daughter with this one fish because they eat like birds. So I reel him up, but I'm on that bridge down there. You've seen it. Well, it's tricky. Even when I take people fishing down there, they can't figure out how.

to get him up on the bridge. So usually like, even Jeff, our own brother. Yeah. He'll hang him and he's like, get him up here for me. Because he just, there's an art to swinging a cropy and using the momentum. And I thought I was expert. Before the hook tears out. Yeah.

And I thought I was expert. So then yesterday I started getting nervous, which I think when you get nervous, you start making bad decisions. I didn't think this out because I'd caught a lot of bass. And so I get him up and I start swinging him. And I'm telling you, if he wasn't three pounds, he's close. Of course, you know how stories go. They're always bigger when what happens.

When they get away. So I finally, you know, have the geometry figured out, I guess, in my mind. And I sling him upwards. But as soon as I made that joke, I heard that pop. I thought my line broke, but the momentum he was coming toward the bridge. And it's like, you know, you've had these life moments when everything starts happening in slow motion. I felt like I was watching this in slow motion because I was looking at him. There was something the way of was stormy here yesterday.

It was kind of almost yellow. It was eerie out there. And I'm just seeing him and I'm judging, is it enough? Is he going to make the bridge? Is he going to make it? And I'm like, I don't think he is. So I started running toward him because the line, you know, I've dropped the rod. The lion broke.

And he just hit the side. And it's like he fell in slow motion. And I was going, no. He's gone. He got on the water. This is funny. And he just kind of laid there on his side for just a second. Just like to say.

You almost got me. You sucker. So close, yet so far. I have no reason for telling that story other than I was just like, I cannot believe that happened on Easter Sunday. I mean, all the things. You're going with the hook and line. I just went with about a three and a half hook net,

and I just got it up and I looked down in it, and there was a one about Apollosus cat. Ooh, yeah. About a 12-pounder. Ooh, perfect. And the one with him was about three pounds. Cold water. Phil, I think...

I just dump them boat. But now, by the way, if you run out of fish and they keep getting away, you got to remember, you say, yeah, but dad's got a stash down there. Deboned. I just put them in the freezer. I heard you bake some for Mom, the first baked up. I make some of the little olive oil and herbs. Get your high brawl, put it on brawl.

Yeah. Go about two racks down. In the oven. And just sort of roasted some. How were it? Did you try it? I told her, you know, get off anything. With salt in it.

So no salt. You roasted the Apollosus as cat? Yep. I've never tried that. Well, I hadn't either, so I tried it. And the women went nuts of it because there was no salt in it. Yeah. No salt.

Just herbs and olive oil. Why don't you just fry them? I don't you fry them without putting salt. Yeah. Well, the ones I fried, I salted them. But they didn't want any grease or any. Oh, they didn't want to eat grease. Yeah, there were other factors.

not put salt. Right. Well, that's right. But I heard it was, I heard they were good. Did you try it? They gathered up and they said, I said, y'all try them, you know. They're golden brown, but they're broasted in the oven. Well, it has to be good.

I mean, Anopoulos is cast on. It doesn't have to be good. I've eaten some. It was not too far from fried ones, actually, but, you know, olive oil and herbs. So, but it made, according to them, I said, well, y'all try it. What about if you, could you blacken it like you do, crapey on the, just on your, oh yeah. Oh, that's the way I do them.

But could you do ops like that? I don't know about that. Well, I don't know. This was, I'll try it. Yeah. But I put this on a broost and I'll try them. Well, I'd like to try it. I'll let you try it.

All right. So, Dad, tells us about your experience. Where were you at? Oh, I'd say a packed house. It was in the. You weren't a rare. Dad didn't travel much anymore, but some of these COVID things before with the same. Yeah, they set it up a year and a half.

Yeah, they got pushed down their line. So Dad had an event in Tennessee. Great, great people, Cookville, Tennessee. I never had been there. But we were on the campus of Tennessee Tech. And I'd seen Tennessee Tech and here, there, and under, you know. But no hecklers won, they said out in the parking lot, but he left. So it went pretty smooth.

I like how you judge your events on the amount. Oh, and the amount of hecklers or protesters. I hadn't had a heckler. I've driven into some events and it's even good. I know. I've been with you. I've seen it. I know it's there.

Yeah. I was thankful for that. I see the country may be finally making a turn. They better make it in a hurry before this next election or are we really going to see something. That's what I said about the traffic yesterday. That's the most people that I've seen on the roads for Resurrection Day. I mean, they call it Easter, but I'm not sure what Easter. I like calling it Resurrection.

I was amazed at seeing the traffic, and they just kept coming in there. And they had 20 police cars just to get them parked. But I had to do that. You were in a basketball arena, and you said maybe 8,000 people? Yeah. What a crowd. Yeah. Which is exciting.

Oh, yeah. How long did you speak? I'd say about I was trying to be as short and to the point as I could with not many stories. So I just wanted about 25 minutes. That's about how much. I get a big crowd like I'm not going to overdo it yeah that's what I saw so I preach yesterday at WFR with Mike and by the way we have been to Cookville I just remember we we you and I spoke I introed for you and we spoke at a Christian school fundraiser there oh really maybe five years ago yeah well it might

have been the same group yeah well maybe so but they are really I just remember there were a lot of people who came to the Lord I mean it was a it was a great great people yeah so So I spoke at WFR, and it just so happened by, as luck would have it, I was in 1st, Corinthians 15 to be able to preach on Resurrection Sunday, which was, of course, planned. But so I did it, Jason, so we didn't two halves. So we preached the first half of 1st Corinthians 15 yesterday and about, you know, everything about the gospel and, of course, the resurrection of Christ and how that sets us up for the resurrection. next week I come back and get to preach the other half, which is what happens once we're there. What is the resurrection body, all that?

So it's kind of a good little. One of our people's out there, we're wondering what you thought about when Jesus prayed to God to forgive them while he was up on the cross. Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do. Yeah, Scott said a question. Why did he say that? Short answer, I'm saving the world here. I'll start here.

That's a good answer. That's... Yeah. Because a lot of people, this very day, even the apostles at that time were like, wait a minute here, they fought it. Peter and them were saying,

no way, you know, they would feel with grief when they heard him say it. I just went through, during part of my presentation was Matthew 16 on, you know,

Jesus saying, going up to Jerusalem, I'm going to die, I be bearing race on the dead. They all looked around like, what he said? Right. So even all the way,

to the cross, they're still wondering, what's going? They still didn't realize this was the event with the removal of sin, the crushing of Satan's head, the prediction from Genesis 315. It's alive and in color right here. That's good. I'm sure it was fantastic. Well, that's the answer to the guy who called from Scott, I think, his name is. I just looked down at saw it just in.

Let's take a break. Yeah, he asked about, we talked about the last podcast, Jason, remember about prayers. And so I guess it sparked him to say, you know, Jesus had that prayer to God and said, forgive them for they know not what they do. And he was wondering, why did he do that? Or what did that mean when he said that? But I've always thought of it as, you know, they really didn't know what they were doing. That's correct. I mean, they were taking orders and told to do it.

And they were, you know, acting as soldiers are down here. But they didn't know. I think what he was saying is, look, I came here to die. That's right. So don't even hold it against these guys to kill me. They realize he was innocent. Right. I mean, even, you know how.

Especially the Romans there. You know how people justify things? I mean, it's like, even in my childhood, I got a couple spankans that I shouldn't have. I was just an innocent bystander, but due to the... You got caught up with the wrong. The immorality of my brothers. I got lured in just because, you know, people feel better when everybody experiences pain. but my point is

I justified it and got over it because I thought well but there was a lot of times that I got away with something that I deserved punishment for us but I think that's the way we view humanity so but if you knowingly if you knew that someone was innocent

of a crime you know whatever crime they've been convicted of that it's fixed to cost him his life I think that would bother them I mean I don't care who you're with right I mean if you knew And I think when he said they don't know what they're doing, I mean, I do, there's one side of that. I mean, Jesus was innocent.

Yeah. That's what, yeah, exactly right. Well, about a month, month later, Peter is talking to the Jews who had gathered up for their big event in Pentecost. And he finished it up and said, you kill the author of life. You with the wicked men, the help of wicked men. They're like, once they heard that, which shows you, they didn't realize it when he was. killed him. That's exactly. You're the one who put him on the cross. You're the ones he started with you saying he'll forgive you. Well that's so it's so the forgive them father they know not

what they do what Peter told them. They all said a lot of them said oh my goodness by killing him that's going to save us. Peter said you're getting it. You got it. They said but what do we do because they're like well we're in a bind now. I mean if his death is going to save us in his resurrection. So Peter told him he said, repent, to turn to God. You know, you receive God's spirit, be baptized, and you'll receive God's spirit. Well, the principle that I've always taken out of what he said that was, that was really powerful to me, is it destroys this narrative that you don't have to forgive somebody unless they ask you to. In other words, what they say is, well, you know, God forgives us because we ask for forgiveness. So ergo, you know, if you wrong me, you know,

You have to ask me for it. In other words, I have no obligation to forgive you. But Jesus showed us right there that you can forgive people without them asking for it. That's right. And in fact, in most times we should because a lot of times you'll never connect with a person that hurt you. But if you don't forgive them, you'll hold on to bitterness for your whole life. I've seen it over and over and over again. Paul, the Apostle Paul, or in 1 Corinthians 2, when he was talking about what Jesus did,

we do, however, we speak a message of wisdom among the maturial. but not the wisdom of this age or the rulers of this, this age, now who are coming to nothing. He's saying, all these people, our message, we speak of God's secret wisdom. Well, if it was a secret, when Jesus died, it's still a secret to most of the world. They're like, oh, that's man-made stuff.

You know, one of them brings it up in here. That's man-made stuff. I don't want to hear anything about that. You say, oh, yeah, that's man-made stuff, right? He just used the human race to save him. He used them. Right. And, you know, they just didn't realize who he was, what he did, what he's now doing, what he will do.

Well, they still say, and all right, get that old Bible stuff out of my face. It's a secret to them. They don't know. That's why I think there's a spirit. To this day. There's a spiritual practical application you can make based on Romans 5. eight where it said God demonstrates his own love for us

while we were sinners Christ died for us. I mean, when you read that Acts too, I think he was talking about the actual men that put him on the cross, but he threw in that wicked you with the help of wicked men because in a way, we all contributed

to Jesus being on a cross because that was his plan. You better believe it. That's right. I do think he's saying you don't realize how... Put him there. Exactly. Whether or how innocent you can justify sin in our minds, because that's kind of what we do,

I think he's making a point that you could apply there. I mean, we think, oh, this is, nobody's going to know this. This is not. I mean, how do we even know this is really wrong? But that led to Jesus dying on the cross. Yeah. None of the rulers of this age understood it. That's the evil one.

For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. They wouldn't have crucified him if they had known his crucifixing and resurrection would save the world. That's the last thing Satan would have wanted. Exactly. Well, that's the seed of a woman will crush your head. You'll strike his heel. You'll get him hanging up there and the blood's flying. But at the end of the day, you lose, he wins.

We win. So my three points yesterday, Jay, is what we believe. leave, which is obviously those first few verses when he breaks down the gospel, and this is how it impacts. And then why we belong. And then I had it in the phrase of the community of the eternal. And that's what the resurrection does. Paul makes a really interesting point because he says, powerful as the cross is, if you

can't be introduced to eternal life, then he was like, what good does it do you pass the few years you have here? What's the part? Even with your sins removed, if you can't connect to the eternal. then it does you no good. He said you're futile. Once you figure that out, in text like since then we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.

Right. That first Corinthians 15. Right. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, and that's what he was doing. And then, Jason, the third point was if you, this is what you believe, this is where you belong, then how do you behave? And then that's where he hits those last few verses.

They're about bad company corrupts good character. So in other words, the life of a person who understands the resurrection, understands what he believes, it should be evident. Yep. It should be evidently different. So that was kind of my— I think it sounds good. I think too— I've had them stand over me and curse me and say that's a biggest bunch of them, and curse him and whatever, you know.

And I mean, they want to hit—they've come up with their fists like that. And one of them told me, one old guy one time told me he said, so if I put my fist between your eyes right now, you're going to forgive me? because that's what you're saying. I said, I'll try. You're going to sit there and let me do this to you. I said, I'll try. Well, you can forgive him and just co-cocking back, I guess. I didn't know exactly, but he was up in my face over.

Just saying, nobody's going to tell me, you know, I can't smoke dope, whatever was. You have to give him credit. It's clever. Yep. It's a clever way to say, I don't want any part of that. I think, you know, the whole thing comes down to who do you think Jesus is. I mean, there's been numerous books. That one that popped in my head was that one, I think it's the evidence,

Christian evidence book, where you view Jesus as either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord. Yeah. Yep. And I think that's why he's like saying, asking that question, because it is, it is a strange thing. He may be focusing in on forgive them for they know not what they do. he may be asking because, well, that was God's plan to die for humanity. Right. Why is he, you know, why is he having this attitude in this our plan?

But I think in whatever sermon you heard yesterday, it does come down to the resurrection. I got off in my own world. I was, it kind of ties in with what you are saying. But in John 20, what struck me, I guess, is I never really notice, You know, here's Mary. I just turned to that before you said that. Here we go. Get in there.

So Mary. That happened so many times on this podcast. So Mary. Hang on, James, before you go, let's take a break. Mary goes to the tomb and she saw that the stone had been removed. And so she came running to Peter and the other disciple, which we've determined, I guess, is John that wrote it. The one Jesus loved and said, they've taken the Lord out of the tomb. tomb and we don't know where they put him.

So then a race happens, which is, this is where we went off the rail up all. I never noticed that they raced to the tomb because it says Peter and the other disciples started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the team first. I'm like, why did we have to have that? That thought. Why did that matter? It took me back as a kid.

You know, every time I'm looking at somebody, they start running. Now I want to win at all times. Yeah. Just no matter what's going on. But then, watch what happens. He bent over and looked in it at the strips of linen line there, but did not go in. And this becomes a chilling setting if you put yourself in this position. Let me just imagine.

Then Simon, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb, he saw the strips lining line there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. Now, I think this is even more chilling. The cloth was folded up by itself separated from the linen. You're like, did somebody take his clothes off? You start going through the process, and why would they fold it up? The cloth was folded up by itself separate from the linen. Finally, the other disciple who had reached him first also went inside.

And here's the phrase. This is the phrase that got me. He saw and believed. Now it throws in there, they still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead. That's why I turned there for a go. He saw and believed, but here was what hit me. Because the reason that really hit me, because I know at the end of chapter 20, he's going to say, because then he goes to Mary and she had trouble recognizing him.

but she recognized him when he said her name, which I think is a very touching moment. They believed right here, which I'm going to talk about that. And then you had Thomas, he was like, no, I don't care what you say. Because you have different people represented and how they responded to the resurrection here, which was kind of his sermon, the sermon I heard. Thomas is like, I literally need evidence.

I need hardcore evidence. Okay. So then he gets to the end and he's like, well, okay, Thomas, you, because you've seen me, you have believed. Blessed are you, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. So here's what my thought was. When John and Peter are the disciple who Jesus loved, when it says he saw and believed, So when you think about it, it really wasn't what he saw. It was what he didn't see.

Because think about it, he saw, at this point, the body could have been stolen, I guess. I mean, they, so he sees this. Which was the story they got circulated, remember? Because, I mean, what did he not see that caused the belief when you just think about it? I mean, he saw the strips of the belief. At this point, he had not had a visual of Jesus himself. He had not had a visual, but it says in verse 8, he saw and believed. When he went inside, he saw and believed.

Well, believe what? But he still hadn't seen him resurrected. Well, that's what I think caused him to believe. What happened to him? Well, and he knows the story was that from the, from the Jews. leaders that the disciples came and took him. Well, he's a disciple. He knows he didn't come to take. Well, the reason Jesus chided Peter, I say the word chiding. He says, hey, Peter, because he's with him now. Post-resurrection. And he was one of the ones at the tomb, he and John.

But now when Jesus said, do you love me? Because Jesus knew he had seen the grave close. He said, oh, you know, I love you. Well, do you love me, Peter? Three times. And then he told Peter, He said, well, just so you'll know, right now, you're young, you can get on you, you can dress yourself and you go where you want to go. He said, there come a time, Peter. There's coming a time for you that you're going to not close yourself, somebody else is, and they're going to take you where you don't want to go. But he asked him, before then, three times, do you love me?

Because he said, well, he's fixing to find out, because you're fixing to meet your fate, and it's going to be brutal. Yeah. Same thing you told. By that, he said Jesus meant what kind of death he would undergo. Yeah. You know. It's the same thing you tell Paul.

You're going to suffer. Yeah. So, Jason, why did John not go in? Why did he stop and just look in, you think? Because Peter went on in. I think fear. Just not sure what to. I think fear.

Well, it's like, you know, when you read 19, speaking of secrets, 38, when Joseph asked pilot for the body of Jesus, Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly. Yeah. Because he feared the Jews. What I'm saying is if you come up there and the tombs rolled away, how do you know so much not in there? Right. I think he went from fear to faith right here in this moment.

And also another factor could be, remember the Romans, Romans had put a seal on it, which meant if you break this seal, then you get the same fate as the guy in here. Perhaps what that meant. It's like if you come in, if you go to your house, I mean, because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I didn't get to my punchline on what my thought was, but I'm saying if you go to your house and your door has been kicked open. And you can see that. You got two schools of thought here.

You either call an I-1-1 or you go on in. But you know in the back of your head, well, what if they're still in here? Right. I wouldn't go in an arm for sure. So, but what my take on it is, see, when you think about it, he kind of, Not chastised Thomas, but he's like, well, you saw me, so you believe. Great. But blessed are those who haven't seen.

But actually, John fit into that category because he, now, granted, he saw the strips of linen, but he didn't see the resurrected Lord. Yeah, it got easier as it went along, you know, for Thomas. That's why he made this point about blessed are those who believe who haven't seen. but what is the definition of faith? To me, John showed faith. Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

So somewhere in that moment, he looked and said, there's not a body, and then I think that's why he threw in the parenthetical. He didn't get it from the previous scriptures. You never put two and two together. You would think he did. But in this moment...

The miracles didn't do it for him. Didn't do it. But in this moment, He's in the tomb and he sees this folded and he's, he believed. Without, he actually had faith because he was sure and certain of what he didn't see. Because he didn't see the body. That was, that was, I mean, but he, he could have said, oh, well, just like the world, they probably moved it or he actually wasn't dead or all the arguments you've heard.

Yeah. But you know when he saw, meaning he saw nobody, nothing, except the clothes laying there, he then believed. I mean, I just thought it was an introduction to what, and I think an acknowledgment when he wrote that to what everyone else from this point on was going to have to, they're going to have to go to the team. and this was getting to my practical application. You got to go to the team in your mind and determine do you believe or not? I mean, he went in there. He had been with Jesus. There's a mighty throng that says, you're just asking too much of me.

It's just a man-made story. It's a pretty good dozy of a story. Which is interesting. Let's take another break. The other half of Scott's question was he's trying to help somebody that says the Bible was man-made was, you know, so he doesn't believe it. This guy is trying to tell. This is a one-way ticket winner take all, whether you believe or not, there's a mighty throne.

That's why it has to start there. It has to start. Can you believe? You're right, Jay's every person has to have the tomb experience. You got to, that was where we run, and that's why I made the big deal about running, which is what got my attention. You got a run in your mind to the team when you hear about it. I mean, Mary Kimmer said, hey, the rock has been rolled away.

Well, you could have just said, I mean, look, I hate to say this, but there were times in my life where I'd have said, well, I know one thing. That doesn't mean anything. He's still in there dead unless somebody took his body and doesn't matter anyway. He's dead. I mean, you could have had that attitude. But for some reason, they ran. Well, they run, and they're going to check it out.

want Peter, Mr. You know, he's not worried about anything. Mr. Impestrian. He's the first one to get shot when he runs into the burglarized house. He run in there because that fit his personality. Cut off ears. You know, he's got a loan. Exactly.

I love, though, the, I love the application that you said that Tom made about that different people approach the tomb and approached Jesus, risen Jesus in a different way. Yeah, that was his sermon. I kind of went off the rails. That's a great. Because it really is three. three encounters here.

You had two that basically went my faith. Well, right. But Mary's mentioned in the second paragraph. But then she's crying and who is it you're looking for? And then this phrase, thinking he was the gardener, which goes to my point, you have to form an opinion on what happened. So in her mind, well, it can't be Jesus because he died.

So when you think Jesus, is just a gardener, you've missed it. But what made her believe when he said, all he said in verse 816, Mary, and she turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, Rabinai, which, I mean, they have a song about that. Oh, yeah. Rabin'i.

It made the hair stand up on the bag, you know. Because she got it with the, which I love, I mean, you give her a little more credit because she was hanging around the tomb first one, then maybe like Thomas. I mean, Thomas gets a bad route, but rightfully so. I mean, what, you don't even believe your friend now? He's calling Mary by her name, but he's just dismissing it, dismissing it.

But I think it's a powerful moment because even my journey to faith, I was a skeptic at first. First time I started reading the Bible, I was trying to get around it, like the question asked. Right. How do we know this is real? because I was like, I mean, somebody made up. I mean, you can make any story up.

That's why I think you have to go to the tomb and experience this. The greatest thing they did from their heart was when they took off. Right. But you have to do that now through faith. But even then, I love it that John put two and two together without having to see him. Right. I mean, to me, that appeals to me, because if he can do it. that because you know it's got to be difficult. I mean, how crazy is it for you to say,

you know what? I believe he came back from the dead. Right. It's just, it's hard to make that decision. And now here we are making the same decision. But it made me feel better that I feel like that's addressed in chapter 20 for us. I don't see any different. Right. You know, so I, so said all that to say this, that's why three or four years ago when I went to Israel and I visited the tombs and I saw how their structure is and I went out in the tomb and I've shared this before but I wasn't really all struck when I went in the tomb I thought boy this is interesting they're like little rooms and they hand craft the rock you know if it's like a place they can lay down oh this is cool this wow I mean this is this is big why do they do this but then as I was leaving the tomb

then I stopped yeah because there's just something like John 20 that hit me, then I turned back in the tomb and believed. I thought he's not here. There's no one in here. This is what I believe. And people said, well, that probably wasn't his actual grave. Well, if it would have been, he still wouldn't have been there. That's what I still in a tomb under the ground in Israel,

in the general vicinity of where Jesus was laid. And guess what? He ain't here. which makes Christianity unique of all the religions of the world and in the past. I mean, you know, every other prophet. It all comes down to you believe in the resurrection of the dead. Right. Well, so they sing a song.

They sang it yesterday, that song, I ran out of that grave, you know. But I thought this was my initial thought. You got to run to the grave at some point in your life. If you want to run out of it, you got to run to it and say, I believe this, even though I'm not seeing the body. That's what happened to John. One of my points just today when we were talking about the beliefs side was that it should give us hope that people struggle to believe now.

We're 2,000 years later. But when Corinthians was written, obviously, it was 25 years after it had happened, give or take. And you already had a bunch of people said, no, it didn't happen. Because Paul wouldn't have been in such a defense of it happening. That's right. Had people there said, no, no, I just don't. It can't buy it.

I don't think he raised from the dead because then he's making his case. Oh, yeah, he did and here's why he did. And he did it more from that kind of intellectual, apologetic approach as opposed to something else. For 5,000 years, the human race pretty well flatlined. It wasn't about 100 million. Somebody said one of these political groups counted up the years. So if you go around for 5,000 years and you have... observe your fellow man and you see the various ways they have died from old age to snake bites to wars

i mean to lightning strikes to drownings and you see human beings when they die they have one thing in common they stay dead yep so you finally it's like america for the last two thousand years they lived the humanity aisle and when somebody dies they said they died and we haven't seen them again and you're saying what you said there was one the died and came back from the dead. They're like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, ho. It flies in the face of just what's normal. Death is always there.

And we come in 2,000 years in a high-tech world saying, Jesus arose from the dead. They're like, you're telling me you actually believe that? I said, I believe it. It helps me out of necessity to at least see a way to get out of here. Yeah. That's my view of it.

Right. I said, if there's no resurrection of the dead, none of us are going to get out of here. That's my faith right there. No one's going to make it unless there's a resurrection of the dead. Think about it. And hang on, let's take the last break. If the dead are not raised, we're, we're. But that was really the one singular motivation point for you, wasn't it?

When you were studying with Smith, it was like, okay, I'm going all in. I said, it's a wild story. And it sounds like it's too good to be. be true, but, and he said it probably is too good for us. He said, but it is true. So the resurrection was the king pen for you. It was the, it got me here for the last 50 years. Yeah. I mean, when I, I remember going back and when I read in Isaiah about, was it the, the prophecy, it was Isaiah 51, 52, we're talking about his body is marred beyond human, human likeness. Yeah, that's 53. Yeah, 53. I remember going back in reading that thinking, well, how did Isaiah know this? I mean, this is asking a lot to believe

that somehow they were all. I mean, he gave, he gave the play by play. Yeah. Yeah, I just remember thinking that. 700 years. Well, maybe somebody got the dates wrong because I was trying to get around it all, you know, but just the more I kept reading, I thought, you know, this is, this just, this is, this is actually taking more not to believe just from the evidence in the history than it is to think that, oh, they just compiled all this. You know, because I've read, y'all have these Bible studies where people say, well, how do you, you know, you're looking at this as inspired by God, and we'll read that, is it Second Peter or First Peter where it said none of the prophecy came about by.

Second Peter one. Second Peter one, by the prophet's own interpretation. But then they spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. They always argue the same thing. They're like, yeah, but even that they made up. Yeah, right. So it's like, so you want me to have a Bible study with you without the Bible? And they're like, yeah.

And I was like, perfect, I can do that. That's when I go with the three questions. I got three questions for you. That's why there's a different motivation for everybody. What are you doing here and how are you leaving? That has nothing to do with the Bible. per se just to do with you. What are the answers to those questions? Which usually triggers a good response because there's not a good answer to those questions without the supernatural ability

of Jesus at all. And you're right. It's different people's experiences. So for you, Dad, I remember you say, and Smith said, I don't, you said, I don't trust anybody. I don't trust preachers. But when he said, do you trust this? Point in his Bible, you said, yeah, I've never had any issues with that. But you grew up enough around the Bible that you knew it was inspired, but somebody else may not at all. I think the term man made is half right. This is a story of men and women. Men wrote it down. To all of history. But you're only half, that's only half the equation. As you said it, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is the other half that makes it divine revelation. But look, you have to believe that. I mean, if you don't, you're going to have a hard time

Unless I can say, well, well, therefore it's man-made. So why do y'all think God said it? I said, well, if men wrote it, there's a pretty good size throng of human beings that all got together over a period of 5,000 years. And they all agree with one another on Jesus coming, his death, barrel, and resurrection. I said, that's one big lie. How in the world would you lie that long and that much? I don't think they could have come together as a group and carried the story that far. But even that, as true as that is, and it came down when he said those last verses,

but blessed are you because you believe even though you hadn't seen. I mean, you're just not, it is a leap of faith, and God obviously enjoys it brings him joy for you to look at the scriptures, look at your life, look at creation, the details, put two and two together, run to the tomb in your mind

and say, you know what? I believe it. I mean, that's obviously what he wants us to do. I mean, yeah. Or he wouldn't have that in there.

I mean, because you look at Thomas, he was fortunate that he actually, because the skeptic usually, they have a harder time because if you're looking for some evidence as in somebody tapping you on your shoulder and saying, hey, I'm God.

We just read Matthew, but it ain't enough. So what do you do? It's just send them another one and tell them. So, okay, we just read Mark. Yeah, what did he say? He said the same thing Matthew said. Send him another one. We don't believe him.

That's just too much to believe. What's somebody? He got anybody else? There's Luke. Luke says the same thing Matthew and Mark said. And he's the Gentile. And they say, well, wait a minute. I don't know.

That's still not enough fruit. Give them another one. So here comes John. All these liars are just coming out of nowhere and they're all telling the same story. Why would so many people all say I was there and here's what happened? And you read it and you say, were they all lying? but the positive feel is that Thomas the good news here is he did he did believe and so I think if you're a skeptic type person like listening to this podcast and you haven't given your life you know to Jesus and you're your questioning about oh is there a God I mean you take a lead off him and what you're reading here and saying I I need to quit doubting.

Because that's what he told Thomas. You know, his challenge was, where does it say, where he said, stop doubting and belief. Yeah. Except on the top, on the left hand side. Wouldn't you think, Jace, that Thomas probably his little unique way of being a witness for the resurrection probably was aimed towards people, skeptics. I mean, that's probably what he specialized in, you know. That was John 20 verse about a verse of 27.

26, 27. Stop doubting and believe. Oh, that's it. You're right. 27. Put your finger here. Stop doubting and believe. So that was the, he gave the problem there. He just doubted it. He doubted it.

And doubt is really just a negative decision you've made. I mean, he was part of the greatest group of people. I mean, it changed the world, specifically the leader of Jesus. But you are part of that. But, you know, when you doubt, You just, you have a decision at every turn. You doubt. You doubt.

You doubt. You're hearing all this thing. You doubt. You doubt. I don't know if we talked about this back when we did John. But that's, I just thought about that's another thing that a glorified body could do. You know, Jesus showed us a lot of really neat tricks. There was another one.

He could recreate the wounds that killed him. Because I don't think he was going to have that throughout eternity, but he could recreate it. I mean, think about that. Just being able to do that. somebody shoots you and, you know, that's how you die. And then if you were to come back like he did and witness me, he said, here, here you see this little. I know.

Thomas is looking at the holes, I guess. Well, yeah, and he was, he was like, oh. Oh, I made a bunch of church people mad one time because to your point, I said, hey, when you have a resurrected body, you can get a tattoo just by thinking it, removing it. That's a great point. No, it didn't go well. I know because people hate tattoos.

People coming up quoting Leviticus to me, but I was. I was meaning that about when he showed him his hands, his feet. They're like, oh, no, he still had the scars. He could just recreate the scars. His body was flexible. It's not a strong enough word. I think the actual holes would have more of an impact than the scars. All right.

We're out of time. But, Phil, you don't have an impact on me as if I could make a hole in my hands and then cover it back up. And then it goes back to the way it was. So a couple of things. I've got something else I want to share in the overtime segment from my sermon. about another way people get to the tomb to use Jason's analogy. Before I do that, at least now are going to be in Scranton, PA this week. Thursday, April 22nd at 6.30.

It's Fiorelli's Family Banquet is where the event is in Peckville, PA. So if you're from that area, want to come see us, we'd love to meet you. We'll see you in overtime. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribe. on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else,

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