Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 498 | Phil Teaches How to Know if a Spirit Is from God & Why You Can Never Be Too Far Gone

Episode Date: June 19, 2022

Phil and Al are joined by Zach Dasher to discuss discernment, and Phil reveals how to really know whether a spirit is from God or not. Al points out that because of God's omnipresence and the grace of Jesus Christ, a human can never be too far gone to be redeemed by salvation that is not earned, but freely given. Al begins a discussion on the superiority of Jesus Christ that will continue through several chapters of Hebrews. Phil points out that humans want to be under a law and a system no matter what. And Zach brings up an idea explored by T.S. Eliot: that man dreams of systems so perfect that nobody will have to be good. Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed Get "Your Daily Phil: 100 Days of Truth and Freedom to Heal America's Soul" by Phil Robertson, available now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400235936 - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we sent Jace out on the mission to find stories. He's gone. He's in California. I can only imagine when he gets back what all will have happened. You know, it'll probably be a whole podcast worth of musings. Where did he go? So he went to Pebble Beach, which is, I'm not sure what the town is in California, but there's a famous golf course there.

So his buddy Barrett that he talks about all the time, he turned 50. And that's what he wanted to do on his 50th birthday, was go play at Pebble Beach. And so Jace has played there, I think, a couple of times. And so I was shocked because Jace's a lot like Dad. Like, dad wouldn't, I mean, I don't think you'd go to the end of the road for somebody's birthday party.

You wouldn't feel compelled to, right? I mean. I would say that you're taking the party parties. to a new level. I mean, y'all are celebrating every two days. How old somebody is, I mean, I'm like, yeah, okay. Would you fly to California to play golf with your friends? Phil.

Phil wouldn't even fly for my wedding. He wasn't there for my wedding. He wasn't there for mine. But in his defense for my wedding, because he made all the other ones, Lisa and I decided to get married from one Friday to the next because my biology was beginning to overtake my theology. And I was trying to stay pure at this point in my life. So I was like, let's just go ahead and get this thing done,

which dad loved it because dad's kind of a spontaneous guy. But he was on the duck call selling trip, already planned, so he wasn't there for the proceedings. So you missed quite the deal. But anyway, so Jay's is out there. So Zach is here, and you're sitting in Jason's chair. I can, for those of you watching, he's very, he hadn't even said anything. You're very loud today.

You've got a loud shirt on. You've got a loud hat. Is that, or is that your homage to Jason? It's my protest. I knew when I sat down, I told out, I said, I said, I can, because I, you're not supposed to read the comments if you're. You're kind of the whipping boy of the podcast, by the way. Well, Jason is, Jay's his, too. He is.

Yeah, we've kind of got. You're in the right chair today. Some people really love it. Some people are like, hey, what's up with his hat? In fact, we got one of our friends here today, John was like, your hat's much better, although it is, it's like a, it's a duck commander hat. It is. This is the original hat, but it's just like the hunter's orange. But honestly, I don't have any clean clothes.

I just came in from California. It looked like a unicorn threw up on you. I mean, it's just, you grab it's in the bag. I was at the beach. So I got the kind of a beachy shirt on. But so, yeah, you don't have to put the comments. I already, you just, we're doing it here. We're just, if you go ahead and make fun of yourself, then you can just get.

What did you say, Dead Nature on Time Bomb? Dead Nature on Time Bomb, so we do. That's why we put TMZ out of business. We just tell all our stuff. So yesterday that, I was, I preached at WFR, or you were speaking at WFRU. Because at Weiss FRA, we have, really we have three different groups meeting at the same, simultaneously. We've got you guys, us, and we have two different assemblies going at the same time. But I was talking about, because we had a big emphasis on discipleship in our live stream yesterday,

because there's a lot of people, and I know our podcast listeners are the crossover, that don't necessarily have played into a church. And so they're getting a lot of Bible from us on the podcast, and they love that. So they've also, you know, Sundays a lot of times, they'll cross over and, you know, check us out what we're doing at WFR. But I was talking about, I mentioned about the movie, that has wrapped production, The Blind. And I told the audience yesterday, Dad, that, you know, you were kind of, you know, a little bit trepidacious, I guess, going in because you, because it was like, you know, that's an embarrassing part of your life and you just weren't sure about it.

So I said, you know, we were trying to convince you that this is a legacy thing that we can leave hopefully a lot of people to Christ over because of your story. And I told them about the lines, Zach, I used on Dad, to kind of help him over the hump about doing it. I told him, I said, well, you know, when Paul wrote Romans, he didn't start in Romans 4. He started Romans 1. Because without bad news, without seeing evil for what it is, you really can't appreciate how good God's grace is. And so I think that's evident by your life.

And so I tip my cap to you, Dad, because, you know, I mean, nobody likes to look at the worst parts of their life and, you know, have that display. But when we look at how good God's grace is and what he's done since, And so I show those two pictures that I show when I'm on the road from the 2017 Robertsons to the 72 Robertsons and talked about that journey, you know, that takes place. So it was good. It was a good morning and a good day because we were talking about the jars of clay, 2 Corinthians 4. And I call them cracked pots is what I call that one because that's kind of what we are. We're cracked pots, you know, for Jesus. Well, that's funny because when people ask me about this film, the blind, is it a Christian film?

I'm like, that's a hard to answer. it's not a Christian film. You know, a lot of Christian films, and friends with a lot of guys that make them and have been ministered to by them. I think one, and I always say, you were kind of standing on the shoulders of everybody that's come before us, but I think with this film where it's different than is that, you know, in the Bible, there's a story arc of creation that God makes everything and it's very good. Fall, Man Fell, Genesis 3.

redemption that God provides redemption. You know, in the garden, it was he made the coverings and out of skin, which is a foreshadow making a covering from Jesus and then restoration. So creation, fall, redemption, restoration. Where I think often in the church, maybe we don't do a good job is we try to whitewash the fall. We try to whitewash. I was trying to get Phil to say a line a while to go for some stuff.

Phil's not going to never say a line that you give him. So I just, he just, but you do it because you know whatever he's going to say is going to be better. Right. And so the line that, you're just setting a bar and then let him go over. Yeah, you're just putting it out there. And then, but the line was if you, the Phil came up with, if you are, how do you say, if, if you want to see the wages of sin, he said, you need to go see this story. Yeah.

And I thought about that. We don't do a good job of showing, and this is what you've always done, Phil, in your ministry with people, is you do an amazing job of really talking about the wages of sin because you see, you can't see how good God is until you see how bad we, how far we fall. Yeah, I agree 100%. And it's, look, it's why that one of my favorite verses is Revelation 1211, which says that we overcome the evil one by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony, meaning that showing how great Christ is.

And then he says, and you don't want to, love this life so much that you would shrink back even from death itself. In other words, we're willing to go full board, even to our death, you know, letting people know about Christ. And so that's why I love that. And that's what this is. I mean, in some, some testimonies resonate in ways that are different with people. But everybody's story is unique. And every story of Jesus triumph in someone's life is going to benefit someone else. I mean, the whole idea, My whole thing yesterday in the sermon was about the light that's in us that he says in 2nd Corinthians 4 is his light. And he put it in us for us to shine his light.

So when you think about the glory of God, when you think about the face of Christ, and then you think about the indwelling spirit, Father's Son and Spirit, that light is in us. And other people see that. And so the way that Paul said they see it is because we're a crack pot. We're a flawed earthen vessel. that shows once we've been redeemed the glory of Christ. And so that is the never-ending story that impacts people's lives. And that's what we're all in for.

What I did yesterday was for the first time, I said, I will not preach today. I sat down at the table. Most people stand up in the pulpit, you know. But I sit when we're doing that. Because I just think it's better talking with someone than talking down to them. But anyway, I said, all I'm going to do is read the text.

I said, they're not long. I said, it's about a 20-minute read. I will do no preaching. I'm just going to read what it says. I said, I think we don't do that enough. Here's where it started. John chapter 1, verse 29, the next day, John the Baptist, saw Jesus coming toward him and said, look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

This is the one I meant when I said a man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me, which is quite the statement. I myself did not know him. But the reason I came baptizing with water, you said, well, how are you going to get to know him? He said, the reason that he might be revealed to Israel. Then John gave this testimony, I saw the spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. I would not have known him,

except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me the man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit. I've seen and I testify that this is the son of God. The next day, John was there with two of his disciples. When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, look, the Lamb of God, when the two disciples heard him on this, they followed Jesus. Turning around Jesus said, saw them, following and asked,

what do you want? They said, Rabbi, which means teacher, where are you staying? Come, he replied, and you'll see. So they went and saw where he was staying, and he spent that day with him. It was about the 10th hour. And then he goes to talks about the apostles. Well, I just went from there, and I said, that's your first reading. I said, your second reading starts in 1st, John 4, test every spirit,

make sure every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, period. But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. And I just read it all the way down to chapter 5, verse 13. I write these things to you, and all I have it did was read them, who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. I said, that's it. And look, there was an eruption of clapping.

I said, no preaching, just reading. I said, if you knowing this, you can know by what I just read that you have eternal life, why don't we just go ahead and read what gives it's eternal life and get on with it? That's good. I said, a lot of people, I said, they think they have to preach a sermon

and they have to take, I said, break the verses apart. I said, sometimes just read what it says. Yeah, that's good. No, there's a lot of power just in reading scripture, you know? I mean, there's no doubt about it. John was there,

and he saw John the Baptist walk up there. He watched that whole thing. Right. And he's the one, when it says that second John there, he was the one that they started following. You see what I'm saying? He said, whoa. That's what the guy.

Because in that text going into the last part of the first John chapter five, it says the water and the blood and the spirit is they're in agreement. That's the one right there that is saved you. That's right before I write this stuff too. You know you, well, you know you have eternal life. You see what I'm saying? which is also why there was that silent period, you know, that 400 years kind of from Malachi and then all of a sudden John the Baptist shows up, because it links right to the end of Malachi

that this is the one who will let everybody know who the Messiah is. And when we repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of our sin, God gives us His Holy Spirit. Well, if you think back, said Jesus walked out in that water, nobody knew his identity was not known yet. but that's where his identity took place. Standing in the water, knowing the blood would flow from him. Yeah. You have to put your faith in.

And the spirit is tied behind. Yeah, I love that because you have, you do. You have this, it's one of the texts I would go to, which by the way. People who dismiss being baptized in water, they ought to read that right there. John, the one that was writing it down, he watched that whole thing. What you said about identity is key. though because Jesus is revealing his identity there and his identity is that he is part of the not part he is the triune god so he's that's right got Jesus the son the holy spirit descends on him

and the father in heaven says this is my son speaking yeah yeah speaking to him so that's how you can know you got eternal life right there it's not rocket science let's take a break yeah you're exactly right that I mean that was the moment right I mean that's yeah and it was it and what was amazing and we talked about this back when we were discussing baptism a few podcasts back, but the idea that Jesus, who was sinless, participated in that act, but the reason he did it was to fulfill, he said to fulfill prophecy, but then also for that moment to happen where John the Babus would say, this is him. I mean, look at what he pictured, what he was doing, being baptized.

If you put that as the, that's how he's called. going to be made known that's his identity that's when the spirit proves it up and at that time no miracles performed nope no that you see it was a big changing point in his life and jesus is stay on planet earth well just like us it's a big point in our life too when we come to a knowledge of that yeah you say everything changes in that's right you mentioned that 400 years of silence can you imagine if your god's chosen people you know and and you haven't heard from a prophet In 400 years, it's just, you would think God's not going to dial us back up. Yeah, you'd think it's over.

And it's interesting that this is the way in which he came. And someone in the comments one time was, Zach needs to get off to Trinity. And I'm like, I mean, I'll tell you right now, that ain't going to happen. You know, I mean, that is the essence of who God is. And you see this God of this triune God. like someone said recently, God's not going to, you're not going to, I think you said this in that last interview you. I think you said something like, how'd you say, we're not going to get our hands on God unless he allows it. That's correct.

But even the fact that we got our hands on God, I mean, just think about that. We got our hands, we got our finite small hands on the eternal God because of what's happening right here, what you just mentioned, the verses you read. God incarnate in flesh, Jesus, in the water, about to tell the world that Emmanuel, God with us, the son of God here. I mean, that's what it's about. Yeah, the way Bowles puts it, I love it, is he says, we get to see who God is in the person of Jesus. Yep. And by him becoming a human being, you know, and everything he did, he did for our salvation, but just us even being able to look, you know, Moses couldn't even look at God. Yeah, he put him in the human being. the clad for the rocks that I'm just going to come the presence is going to come by but you'll be glowing

and you can't even look at me yeah you start reading through the psalms which i've been doing as recently just it's so good just to read through the psalms and meditate on them because for me it's like a it's really good just for the formation of my spirit formation of my soul and i want i want to be like jesus i want to be a lot like him and uh and read through these psalms and there's so many of them that talk about this eternal God who made the mountains and the stars and this big, big, big, big, picture of this big, big, big, big God. And then it talks about God making him lower than the angels. It's talking about Jesus.

And so I think that one of the things I've always said is the way we measure the depth of God's love is we have to understand the height of his glory. And the higher we see God, which is we know he's... infinitely high, but he's infinitely glorious. That's the distance that God traveled to be put into a human body. Yeah. Which is an infinite. So when we talk about the love of God, which Phil mentioned in the last interview too about this all about his love, the way we measure his love, we see his glory, and then we calculate the God becoming flesh and then calculate that distance. Yeah. And that's how much God loves you.

That's why that first, when we're going into the book of Hebrews, that's why that first paragraph just zones in right there. In the past, God did a lot of things, you know, but in these last days, I tell you all, if the Hebrew writer said when this was written, that as we moved into the last days, because in the past all the prophets, there's a pretty long wait.

Yeah. But finally he appears in flesh, and you're like, oh, oh, Well, that's why it's been the last days there for the last couple of thousand years. Thousand years. Yeah. But, you know, God, you know, it's, you know. It's like a thousand years. So I was thinking about that, Zach, you talk about that, the idea of distance.

It reminded me of that Paul's Prayer in Ephesians 3 when he says, I pray that you'll grasp how long and wide and high and deep is the love of Christ. so directionally, that's everywhere you can go that his love is there. I mean, in other words, you can't, people say, well, I'm just too far gone. There's no too far gone. There's no too far gone. You know, and you say, well, man, I just, I feel like I'm on a mountain top. There's no too high.

He's there. The answer to the mankind's troubles, the answer to their dilemma, in the past, God spoke through the prophets of many times very, but in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son. Better pay attention to what he said, who he said he was, and what he was. do what he's now doing what he will do you know it's it's all mapped out now yeah and you know people have been talking a lot more about last days just because you know things are things are not great especially in our culture and so it kind of looks like it may be some tipping point

before we get to hebrews i want to i do want to mention uh the dad they released your daily fill yeah which is uh it's a basically a devotional book it's got about a hundred days worth of thoughts from your book series. They actually put that together from reading the other books and the podcast, not the podcast, what would they call, in the woods. In the woods, yeah. Some of your, just real basic wisdom stuff is really good. But anyway, I want to mention to the audience because it was an exclusive for Walmart

originally, but now you can get it at Amazon Hobby Lobby Books of Me, wherever you buy them. You can read a chapter of that and it takes you about maybe, five minutes, five to ten minutes, so you don't have to be in a long ordeal. Just go through it. Just read one after the other. And most of them are nearly all of them, five minutes max. Yeah, it's just a thought to get your time. It's not a long, drawn-out thing where you sit there, you know.

No, it's just, it's very simple. Very simple. I like it. It's good. It's not rocket science. Or as Dr. Carson would say, it's not brain surgery. No, that's right. Boy, that guy's that, man, we had him on there.

He's coming down for a little visit with Dad. He's never, he's kind of hadn't been an outdoors person, so he's drawn to that. So he wants to go on the land with Dad, so that's going to be exciting. You come right now. It's going to, ooh, it is hot. It is. I don't know if he knows how hot it is in Louisiana. He's from Florida, but I don't know.

I lived here for 17 years, then I've been away for five. You know, you're in the mountains now. You're over there where it's nice. He used to make me so mad, people come down here, man, I don't know how y'all live down here. Now I'm saying all my friends, I don't know how y'all do it. How do y'all live down here? I'm busting beaver dams, as all I'm doing.

Look, you've got a plate there of metal, and we pull it up. It's a 24, we've got to a couple of 24-inch pipes, and you would think, you know, they wouldn't be smart enough to dam that up where no water is coming through. it within 24 hours. All packed with mud. No, no flow. I get out, tear it all apart.

We got us a grating in front of the, where they can't get up in the pipe, because that makes it very difficult, can't reach it. So we put a plate, we raise it up. We have wire. They can't go through that wire. So they say, hmm, what do we do? They just start stacking it up against that wire. So right now you could go down there.

I had it flowing. And as soon as it gets dark, the beavers show up. I could kill them, trap them and kill them, put a bullet in their head, which I might do. But I'm trying to be their friends, and I'm trying to explain to them. You all have to work with me or you will get a bullet in your head. Maybe you need to. Trying to be kind to beavers for all you animal rights people. I don't think we're getting a lot of animal rights people listening to Unashamed.

But I think you need to cut. You've got to get a seed. at the table. When they're having a meeting, apparently, during the day, to strategize what they're going to do, you've got to get in that meeting. Anybody who's an unbeliever in God and is an atheist, when you ask him, let me ask you a question. You ever heard of what they call a beber? They say, you've heard of a beaver.

You say, it's just an animal, right? We've got a flat tail on him. I said, let me tell you something. That thing, it is amazing. We are taking trach holes. big trach holes and reaching down in front of those pipes the big pipes i've got some pipes it's like 48 inch but you won't believe how many literally tons of earth that beavers will move around down there damming up everything they they just it's it's amazing to watch didn't you tell us

let's take another break didn't you tell us one time there's a beaver dam in canada that can be seen from space. Over one mile long. It's the largest animal made structure in the world. That's crazy. It's 20 feet out in the middle of it, the dam. They move 20 feet of dirt up, and it stretches for one mile, and there's a lot of them working on it.

And you can look down from outer space. With no engineering degree. Right outside Alberta, Canada. And we got some Canadian listeners, so I'm sure. I've seen footage of that. It's pretty impressive. You think about like the Army Corps of Engineers and what they've done along the Mississippi River.

That's what it cost them millions, tens of million, billions of dollars to do that. Beavers did it. They've been working on it a while. Some old guys filming it and watching it hot keeps getting bigger and big and bigger. It's amazing. Well, I'm down here, you know, just trying to drain water in Louisiana. But they are a major factor.

It's a yearly battle. It happens this time every year. Usually cotton matter. They'll move as soon as you start to get down there and then beaver dams and cotton mouths. They like living in there. They like a little perch and stuff going around there. So you've got to be careful where you step. You know, you step right down there's a cotton mound going right there.

I'm like, woo. Have you seen a bunch of snakes out this year? Oh, yeah. Yep. Well, what happens is every time you get backwater, it just repopulates the snakes and everything else. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can, I mean, it's like fighting and losing battle. It's exactly.

You just got to stay on top of it. That'll preach somewhere, I know. That's good. All right, so let's get to Hebrews. We set the book up the last couple of podcasts. We kind of did some background. We were saying, Zach, because you weren't on the podcast that, I mean, we love Hebrews anyway. I mean, it's such a good book because it's all about, in fact, my outline is the superiority of Jesus.

Yeah. I don't think Bowles actually used this wordage, but the son, he's going to say in verse 2 or 3 there verse 2 the son with Jesus is the radiance of God's glory and check this out and the exact representation

of his being so you say he is God yeah yeah sustaining all things any question you have about anything by his power, powerful word.

And John echoes that same language. Exact representation of God's being. He said, well, he'd have to be God. Yeah. Yeah, John uses the same language in John 1. He says, in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and through him all things were made,

which is what he's saying here, when you start thinking about Jesus, which is good because in our culture, I think we, particularly the last probably 20 years, We want to talk about Jesus being like the loving, forgiving, which he is. We got the picture of him petting the lamb and the picture of him with the kids. But we better not forget that we are talking about the creator and sustainer of all things. The son, all things were made through him and by him.

I think that's one of the things we get off on is diminishing the deity of Christ. On the negative side, there is one lawgiver that beats Jesus. and there'll be one lawgiver and one judge, the one who can save and destroy. So you say, that pretty well covers the whole thing. Save or destroy is in his hands. And we talked about, Zach, on the last podcast, that this book, obviously,

and we spent a lot of time sort of trying to guess who might have written it and, you know, kind of things everybody talks about Hebrew, but there's no doubt about it because the tenor of the book is that people have sort of slid back into Judaism and back to the old ways and away from Jesus, which was the purpose of why the Hebrew writer wrote it. And it's such a cleverly written book in terms of the arguments that the writer makes. So he starts out, he says in verse one, in the past, God spoke to our forefather. so you know it's a Jewish context now

through the prophets at many times and in various ways but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son so now everything's changed whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the universe

and we spent a lot of time talking about that with Bowles about that Jesus has always been there and that prophecy has always been there in Genesis 3 whenever the fall of man And, you know, we get to verse 15, and whenever God addresses Satan, he brings up Jesus then. I mean, that was really probably the first prophecy.

He said, you know, you'll strike his heel, meaning that he was going to die, but he'll crush your head, which is what happened in the resurrection. I mean, Satan, according to Paul in 1st, Corinthians 15, his power and dominion were destroyed with the resurrection because now there's no fear of death. I mean, that's been his main, you know, tool against humanity. And apart from law and the faith that we now, the world now stands in, the ones who have obeyed the gospel. Otherwise, watch, is the law therefore, because we'll see all this keep coming up in Hebrew, this is Galasins 320, 21. Is the law therefore opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not. If a law had been given that could impart righteousness,

would certainly have come by the law. But the scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sins so that what was promised being given through faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, and you'll see in Hebrews over and over and over and over. This is in Galatians. Before this faith came, before Jesus showed up, We were held prisoners by the law, locked up until the face should be revealed.

No way out, none. So we told through the prophets all those, that 5,000 years, he's preaching, he's coming, he's coming. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, the Hebrew writer keep making this point. We are no longer under the supervision of the law. That's the book of Hebrews coming up.

He's going to show you a better way. The problem with the law is none of us have ever kept it. Right, yeah. It killed levelized one of us. That's right. He keeps it, then dies on a cross and be buried and resurrect to get us out from under it.

Keeps it and dies to get us out from under it. Keeps it and dies to get us. get us out from under. I wouldn't have thought that one up. That's over my head. I'd never. And yet human nature, because this is what the book of Hebrews is about, tends to want to always go back to law. As if they can keep it. Right. It's like a false security in law. It's because you can't keep it anyway. No. And we've talked about this before, even at a practical level, you see things happen in our culture. And the immediate response is we need more laws. But typically, it doesn't deal with human heart. So what happens is you make more laws and then people still find ways to do evil.

You can't stamp it out by law. You can't. And yet that's always the rush. The law that says thou shalt not murder. Commandment number six. Thou shalt not murder. Don't murder each other. You say, well, what happens if I do? We'll kill you. That's what happened. I mean, you talk about strict. I mean, this thing was death riding on it. Yeah. You said, well, how many people kept it and the murder rate went down. The murder rate's been high ever since human being been on the earth. That's the first thing that happened. You say, well, were they killed on each other?

Because don't murder. I mean, that was said, you know, 2,000 years before the law was given. I mean, I mean, about when it was given, 2,000 in, you say, well, man, you know, I have to keep every one of these. You said, number 10 of them. But no one keeps it. You can't, yeah, the system. Hang on, let's take a break.

The systems will never work. We talk, it's hilarious. It's just, the theme continues, right? When we were in Colossians, Paul starts Colossians with the supremacy of Christ. And the whole thing is about don't get off on the system. You need to end on the person of Jesus. I think that's the whole deal, you know,

is that we want the systems. I mentioned that Dallas Willard quote, or he didn't quote it. I think he quoted T.S. Elliott in his book, renovation of the heart, and I'm probably going to butcher it, but the reason why T.S. Eliot said we come up with all these systems is we're trying to find the perfect system so we don't have to be good. And that's just not really, you've missed the whole thing. If you don't understand that God is the

prize, it's not about getting to eternal life so we can have autonomy and live forever. It's actually being in the presence of God. I think that's the end. So all this, stuff in Hebrews that we're going to get into as he's talking about this, he's making himself available. He's allowing us to touch him, particularly in this first part, it's about God's revelation and that God is revealing himself to us. He's making himself known in the past. When God talked to his people, he did it through prophets, is what he said. And prophecy was always difficult because, you know, it was being spoken in the moment by the prophet. in some scenario that he was dealing with.

Yeah. But then there were all these clues that were there that were going to go forward. But that's a hard way to get it because you're not exactly sure. You're not sure. Is this easy talking about now or later? I think most of the prophecies that we now know are messianic prophecies, meaning their predictions about the coming of Jesus. When they were written, a lot of them, people probably thought,

they didn't even know what it was. But then you go back because hindsight's 2020. Now we know, because we know, like in the Psalms, when it talks about Jesus dying. In fact, it was hilarious. We were at an event film. I don't know if you remember this or not, at the Western Summit.

And we were, you were preaching, I think, was it, Psalms 22? Is that the, yeah, Psalms. I think you were in Psalms 22, and you're reading it. And I'm back there behind stage with a guy who's a friend of ours,

a Jewish guy, and he's like, he's preaching out of the Old Testament. And I'm like, yeah. And so then he, you kept, going and then he goes wait he's talking about jesus and i'm like yeah but but if you but if you were to go back you know when that was written when when when when the psalm was written no one would have known oh he's talking about jesus we know now because we know exactly what is written in psalms 22 has actually taken place yep and jes i mean word for it looks like the movie the passion of christ

right so we know that now and so that's what when larry was on that's what his whole ministry because he's mostly dealing with people, Islamic faith people, and I didn't know this, too, he explained it to us, that they embraced the Old Testament. It's all Jesus as a prophet, not the son of God, but a prophet. So that's where his whole ministry came out of showing Jesus from the Old Testament. But you're right, once it's happened, when we have the scripture and the word, you can do that.

But in real time, when you were living it, I'm sure it was very confusing, because you're not sure what exactly, who is he talking? about. Yeah, you know, it's funny, there was an interview I watched with Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and I can't remember the other guy, maybe Dave Rubin, I can't remember who it was. Whoever it was, they were talking about the evangelical faith, and Ben had John McArthur on his Sunday podcast. And Dad's been on a new show before, too. Ben's? Yeah. And he asked the question of John McArthur. He said, you know, And he's telling, he's actually telling the other guys this story, which I thought was, I love Ben because he's, he's like such an honest guy, you know, and just he's up for real discussion. And so they were talking and he's like, you know, I asked John, what's, you know, what's, I mean, we're kind of all in the same team here, right? You know, we're, we believe in the God Old Testament. And what's the big difference between Christianity and Judaism? And he said, John McArthur just simply looked at him and said, well, it's just real simple. Jesus.

and Ben's like, he's kind of right. The big difference is Jesus. And I think that's honestly the case that's about to be made here at Hebrews. If you say, what's the big difference between Jude? He said, why is this book written or why is this letter written? It's written because this is the case for what is the big difference. What's the big deal? And the answer is going to be Jesus.

When we get to the priesthood, we get to the whole, all of it. What's the Jesus? Right. And which is why I enjoyed the books on us. want to read this text because here's what Peter said in 2 Peter 1, which is what the Hebrew writer said, but it kind of really gives it a nice, you know, buttress. In verse 16, 2nd Peter 1, 16, Peter is saying, we did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His Majesty. For he received

honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the majestic. glory, we mentioned this earlier, saying, this is my son, whom I love with him, I am well pleased. So he goes back to that same moment we were talking about. We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. And we have the word of the prophets and more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it as to a light shining in a dark place until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation for prophecy never had its origin in the will of man

but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. So I love that that picture, he says, of what he saw and heard about who Jesus is. And then also he takes it one step further and said all the prophets pointed to this moment. And he's speaking, obviously, he was a Jew. And so he's speaking to a Jewish audience as well. And he's saying, look, this is real. We didn't make this up. We're not, you know, people try to do a lot of stories about Jesus. We were there. We saw the glory. We saw it happen. And I love this because when he's, when he's making his case here about the prophets, he says, he's making the case that, yeah, he's acknowledging the Old Testament. He's acknowledged. And that's why you don't get a, it's not like we're rejecting

the Old Testament. Not at all. I mean, I, but people do, don't they, in evangelical circles, a lot of times, they're like, well, we don't really need the Old Testament. and you're like, we don't need it. I mean, it is, it is, it shows everything and how it had to happen. You go back to, let's take her last break. You go back to when we were, I just remember growing up in our denomination, and they would, and you would make a point about the Old Testament. And I, if I've heard this once, I've heard it a thousand times, well, that's the Old Testament. Doesn't apply. I'm like, the Old Testament still applies to this day. You have to read the entire Bible in its grand scope. And when you get here to this idea, that's why he's upholding that. He acknowledges that God,

after he spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions in many ways, but in these last days, he has spoken to us in his son. And then he tells us who his son is, whom he appointed heir of all things. Through him, he also made the world. And he is the radiance of his glory and the exact, as Phil mentioned earlier, representation of his nature. He is God. and upholds all things by his words. So he's the sustainer of everything by the word of his power. When you think about the concept of radiance, because he says he's the radiance of God.

What's the first thing that you think about when you hear the word radiance? I think glow. Light. I think light. I think about the sun. And so you think about the rays that are coming out of the sun, which you can't,

the Bible says you can't make an analogy of God. But, you know, we can, we try to understand some of these. concepts, but God, the son is the, he's the glow of the godhead. He's the one that's going out of the godhead, which we know he came here, right? So he's coming out of the father. Bowles, Bowles was saying, once you present Jesus to the Arabs, they're running from themselves. Yeah. They're running from their own religion. It's just a slaughterhouse. He said, once they see, that Jesus is God, once they see that right there, they, Muhammad, they know he's not God. The veils lift.

I'll tell you, Muhammad, he's not God. No. Which is why, I mean, they're trying to kill me right now. Yeah, that's a good point, Phil, because it's one of the reasons why, and I mean this, sincerely, if you're listening and you don't believe that God is three persons in one being, like it does matter and the reason why it matters is the you know um the the the Islam teaches that god is one god but but they don't have room for a triune god and and and when if god is just one person then he then what the what that looks like downstream it looks like Islam it looks abusive

it looks tyrannical and and when you see who are who the god of the bible is god is love he is an outpouring he is an overflow he is all these things so matters, it really does matter. And I think that's one of the cases that he's making in Hebrews here. He's explaining to us that God is, his nature is a triune nature. Yeah. Because you see all, all three members of the Trinity present here in Hebrews 1, just like you did John 1. Right. And you also don't have, under that structure, you don't have any, there's no thoughts in the Quran, according to, I haven't read it, so, but according to Larry, there's no, there's no avenue for forgiveness for sins or purification or all the things we think about

in terms of what Jesus provides for us as being a part of that trying of God. There's no pathway. It's not. It's just like it was in the Old Testament. It's law. It's keep law or be lost. In my previous. He writes the law, every shot and tittle, comes down, obeys the entire thing.

which tells us it can be done, then turns around and says, I've chosen a price to get you out from under that. My death for your life. My blood for you, cleansing. You don't have to keep the law now. Just trust me, love you, love your neighbor. Much easier.

Right. It's not burdensome. And he's correct. He's correct. It's not burden. to love God, love your neighbor. You say how much you get up in the morning, the opposite would be mean to your neighbor.

You know, and you say there is no God, and you see all of what comes out of that. I mean, so he has the answer to everything. First John, I mean, that's what he says, right? The commandments of God are not burdensome. If they are burdensome, then I would say the problem is not with God or the commandments, then we need to, maybe the problem is.

It's a very light load when you know Jesus has forgiven you of all of them. Yeah. I mean, amazingly, you tend to become far better than you were when you were thinking, going around, breaking along. Which is what Jesus meant when he said, my yoke is easy and my burden is light. He wasn't saying that Christianity is easy and we sit around eating figs and grapes. He was saying the burden that you carry to try to save yourself is released in me. And you don't have that.

You don't have that weight. Everybody says, well, there's too many rules in Christianity. rules too many rules I said yeah m y'all dreamed them up I said look I said love God love your neighbor that's just one rule love God and love your neighbor I'm like how hard can it be you said that won't work I'm said well how's it working for us now yeah the ones that are claiming they we're a bunch of rulekeepers I said we're sitting here we're free from rules regulations we we just love God love our neighbor you say if he spits on us or cusses us we don't hold against him just keep going

And somebody says, you mean, is that it? You say, that's pretty well it. Phil, we bought us. Jesus went around doing good. Yep. You said, yeah, that makes sense. And healing all those who run under the power of the devil. You say, we're ambassadors for him.

We represent him. And that's what we tell people. Yep. My wife bought this play pin that's for the baby that's like you could take out to the park and stuff. It's like got a top on it and you zip it up. And it's kind of like a cage. but it's uh but so anyways we're out there at the park of the day uh swim meet and grant my my brother's kid who's like six or seven well he's trying to get into the playpen which it's not made for a six or seven year old so he's looking at it and be like cohen what get get out of the playpan too much more and not enough tent that's exactly it and cohen he goes well you didn't tell me i couldn't get in he goes yeah i don't have a rule against stab but that i mean you can get it's like it's like even at seven years old he's thinking but there's not a rule against

it. But that's the deal. It's like, we don't, in Christ, we don't need a rule for everything. Yeah. Because it's not about that. I had a sister one time years ago, and she's a dear friend. But she had just come back to White's Free Road. And she was having some issues with some of the things we were doing. And I said, well, you know, it's okay. I mean, you know, we don't like everything, but, you know, we're just, we're a body here. And she said, well, I, I just wish our elders would just make a rule. And then I would just feel, then I could just feel, then I could just feel better. And I was like, yeah, but that's not the way, that's not the way we do. That's not how we're going to go forward because, you know, we have the Bible, we have our own conscience. There's always

going to be likes or dislikes, but that's that craving to make me a rule. You know, if I, if I make a rule, then I'm comfortable because I don't have to decide anymore. My own conscience. All I have to do is keep the route. All I have to do is keep the rule. But guess what? You won't keep it. That's the thing. You can't, you can't look to the rules. And so, and to clarify, something because we're almost out of time. Zach was saying earlier how you can't kick out the Old Testament. I agree. Remember the old, and we're going to get into this later in Hebrews, the Old Testament and the Old Covenant are two different concepts. We're not under the Old Covenant. We're under the New Covenant, but the Old Testament is all about showing us the New Covenant. So that's where

you have to get that. And I have to say, when I took Old Testament history in geography in preaching school, that unlocked it for me. That brought it all to. together. When I understood exactly what God had been doing throughout human history, I got it. It made the New Testament so much more meaningful to me once I had a deep dive into the Old Testament. So that's why I love this book so much too. All right, we're out of time. That went by fast. That's good. In the overtime, we'll talk a little bit more about this idea of prophecy before we start talking about angels. We'll get into that in the next podcast. Tell them how to how do they get So you, BlazeTV.com slash unashamed as you subscribe to Blaze.

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