Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 501 | Phil Believes Jesus Became a Human & How Power Without Love Equals Tyranny

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Phil discusses the power of Jesus becoming flesh and bone and why his sharing in our humanity is a big deal. Jase discusses atonement and how humans cannot achieve it, but it can be obtained. Al talks about how power without matching love will cause division or tyranny, and Jase discusses the temptation that Jesus Christ struggled with, while remaining without sin. Al explains how anger is not a sin, and Jase explains why it is difficult to wrap your head around Jesus being the son of God, yet still God in human form.  Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed Get Uncanceled by Phil Robertson, available now: https://www.amazon.com/Uncanceled-Finding-Meaning-Accusations-Condemnation/dp/1400230179 - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So we're picking up in Hebrews in the last overtime segment. Jay, she brought up a really interesting point about, you were in Romans 8 and when we were talking about it. But the idea about the equality of God's love with the equality of his power. and that thought intrigued me because I thought, you know, you illustrated it in several ways, but I was thinking when I think about how powerful God is, and we've talked about that. When Bowles was on here, we talked about omniscience. I mean, he's all powerful, you know, all knowing.

Even verse three says the sun is the radiance of God's glory, the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. Right. But I made the point that his, he chose to come here. revealing God's character and nature, because you made reference to that where he is the exact representation. It's the Greek word,

his character. Yeah, the radiance of God's glory, the character. Well, then it says after he provided purifications for sins, well, there's you, he introduced us to love, God's love. That's why when you read that 1st John 4, this is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us. That is the standard.

That's what he revealed. But it made me think when you were describing it in the overtime, I was thinking of what you, when you look on earth, you know, because we're made the image of God. So, and look, men and women can do and be powerful. I mean, there's a lot of power. And in churches too. In churches too. But when you have power exhibited without matching love, you immediately get to two things, tyranny. to rule over and to be more powerful or division.

And I think you see both of those in the idea and some of the problems in the Corinthian church when we were studying those letters jays, that that's what happens. You divide and then there's power grab, you know, in the interim. And so. Well, and think about Corinth. I mean, because I've been around Bowles enough and I went to Greece. You had a place. Just think about the similarities.

The church at Corinth, you know, Corinth lay dormant for a hundred years. I think it was like one, I'm getting historical here. I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was 146 to like 46. It had been decimated by Rome. Yep. There was nothing there. So it was like they didn't have a history. You know, Julius Caesar came in and rebuilt it because he saw the opportunity for money.

because if you go over to Greece in any direction, you've got to go through Corinth. It was that little four-mile strip there is the corridor. Which, by the way, just to your point, historically, the Roman rule was that when you ever you decimated a place, you had to wait 100 years before you rebuilt it. And the idea was that way you stamp out the entire generation of whoever was there before you. Exactly. So you can totally remake it in your... image. So that was the hundred-year-dealer. So then all of a sudden, though, this place

becomes one of the greatest cities across the pond. And you said, well, why did people come? Well, they came with a place with no heritage because all these, that's why there were so many multiple different races of people. They all gathered up and they had one theme. We want to make it. We want to make something because it was an opportunity to make money. And it did. It flourished. I mean, it eventually got to the point. And there was no rules.

Right. There's no history that we're going to just blow it out, make as much money as possible. And so then it eventually led to this temple on the top of the mountain up there that sends a thousand prostitutes down to all these people coming in. I think how much money was being made there. Oh, yeah. And look, it was just like today. it was anybody and everybody. I mean, there was crossing over.

People looked like men. People look like women. Exactly. It's almost looking at America modern. That's where I was going with this. Well, think about America. All the people that came here, why did they come here? They want to make it.

Success. They wouldn't be successful. That's right. It's a land opportunity. A new start. There's a lot of similarities to the old urban environment of Corinth. in our urban cities. Yep.

Because I was there. I mean, it's a crowded, you have stuffed all these people in here and said, we're going to let it all hang out. And they had this, the travel of people coming through that they were just making money on from whether it was prostitutes or selling whiskey or, you know. Usually buys. Yeah, giving them a place to hang out that was basically a shortcut. Yeah. wherever they were traveling. So I do see some similarities there.

But what I also see is even when he got to 1st Corinthians 13, I think a lot of their success, they were successful people financially. And so when it got to the church, well, now they get these gifts laid on by the apostles of doing miracles. But if you have that environment, and I'm sure it was a successful church, I guarantee you it was moving and shaking.

but the same problem that what vices do spiritual gifts can do which is oh look at me look how good at look how successful if i wasn't so successful why would god be giving me this ability and so i got into this point talking about when i was uh when i speak i'm not a great speaker whatsoever in front you know there's trained articulate speakers out there motivational speakers so the first time I give a speech, well, I'm sharing Jesus in a creative way from our past, your conversion, the duck calls, you know, I'm telling a few jokes. But let's face it. I mean, you can hear five seconds into my accent, which noticeably stood out when I was in California

because people kept asking me about it. That it's not my training, it's not that. And so if I was under the delusion of like, oh, oh, look how good I am because the people like it. Well, they like the message. That's where the power is. But you could even have people sharing and moving people, and their heart could be a million miles away from God.

Right. Because they have a gift of connecting with people. I mean, in my case, I think it's all message and, you know, God's gifts somehow making that all work. But if I were to start thinking, oh, Oh, yeah. These people love, they love me, you know. Well, where's that headed?

Yeah. And so when you get to... No, we're good. Yeah, if you get to Hebrews 2, you feel that because he says, we must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding in every violation and disobedience received as just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore? nor such a great salvation.

Well, you know what this is sounding like? A lot like First Corinthians. When he got to 15, he said, let me remind you of the gospel. So when he said in chapter 13 of Corinthians, he said, if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love,

I'm only a resounding gong or clinging symbol. I mean, I heard a lesson on this. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. But he made the point that even Judas in Matthew 10, he was given the ability to do miracles. Remember when Jesus laid his hands on him? He wasn't even a believer. He was an imposter. And he was out there with everybody else.

And Jesus knew it. And Jesus knew it. I think that's a key point because a lot of people at Corinth were evidently doing the same thing. Right. And so he eventually reminds them of the gospel. Now, I don't mean, you know, I don't know if they heard it and forgot it or they never were in on it to start with. But there's multiple examples of God working and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You remember the the Balam and his donkey or whatever?

I mean, the Bible calls him wicked about half a dozen times. Maybe not that means three or four times. Well, what was God was using them? That don't mean your heart. has been given to God. So then he says, if I have gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I'm nothing. And none of that matters if you think that you're great and awesome

and that God is looking at you saying, oh, yeah, you're, because then I made the point that that's the opposite of grace. Right. Which is God saying, I love you because I love you. Because that's who I am. That same sermon I heard made that point. He had an illustration about your wife. He's like, if your wife asked you, which would be a dangerous question, why do you love me? Well, if you say, I love you because whatever you're fixing to say, just ruined it.

Yeah. Because what if they're not? You know, I love you because you're good looking. That's going to change. That's going to change. I love you, you know, because you sing spectacularly. Okay. The answer is, I love you because I love you.

It's just God's grace teaches us that. So I think it's an important point because then he says, I mean, they're ignoring the salvation. He doesn't want them to drift away. And in their case, they have this pull to go back to their roots of Judaism. Right. Right. Plus it says this salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, you got like Luke 412 in there, Luke 417.

The spirit, he got up in the middle of a crowded bunch of Jews. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. He's just arrived on planet earth in flesh. He found the place where it is written, The spirit of the Lord is on me because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners,

recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor. Then he rolled up the scroll, handed it to the attendant, and sat down. Well, look, the eyes of everyone in the, the synagogue were fastened on him.

And he began by saying, today, this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing. I'm the one you've been waiting on. Exactly. That was the announcement that the Hebrew writer is saying that. That's right. You said, when did this thing, we better not lose it because be careful, you know, how are you going to escape if you ignore such a great salvation? We need to remember, Jesus is the one who announced.

it. He said, I'm the one. Exactly. Can you imagine? Well, look, in about 15 minutes, Jace, they're going to throw him off the cliff. Yeah. I mean, right. Well, and the prophets. That was his reception committee. Yeah. The prophets announced it. God designed it and then Jesus fulfilled it. Yep. But then he says in the second part of verse three, this salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, to your point, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. Yep.

That was the initial. So there's a difference. Yeah. So he's saying Jesus reveals the character of God. And what character was that? Well, at the top of the list was love and joy. You know, there's one verse that we're going to, or did we already read it? It says he was anointed with joy.

No, that was chapter 1.9. He said, you have love, righteousness, and hated wickedness. Therefore, God, your God has set you above. love your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. That's from Psalm 45. Yeah, Psalm 45. So again, he's talking about the sun, though. That's in verse 8 when he said, but about the son, he says.

So which is what is joy? Another quality of the, it's another character, which is different than my happiness. So. Which you make a good point, Jay, is the character of, we were talking about earlier in verse three is also the same character that's revealed when the Holy Spirit bears fruit through us. Yeah, that's where I'm going with it. That's where I'm going with it. Well, back to the Hebrew's text, if it was first announced by the Lord, and just after that,

God also testified to it, what you mentioned early, Jays, by signs, wonders, and various miracles when you read about the church of Carreth and where that was going, you're like, whoops, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. Yeah, that was the connection I was trying to make. It's like these people in Corinth started pursuing those. Hang on, Jay. Let's take a break. The people in Corinth started pursuing those as evidence that they were doing good.

That God liked this to the point of that he's noticing them. Instead of, hey, look at him, it was, hey, hey, look at me. That's it. That's what happened. And so that's why the salvation is Jesus. It's not found anywhere else. You're not going to get it in the angelic world. You're not going to get it by doing awesome things and being good in your own ability.

It's just not to say that good things are not happening, but you have to acknowledge that that's God. Even before you come to him, he has given us abilities and gifts and talents. And to the people at Corinth, that's why he ended up. He ended up by saying in 1st, Corinthians 15, let me just explain to him. Tell you, let me remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received or which you had taken these things. Because they had got it all messed up with the gifts of the Spirit. And they all jumping around and hollering.

You know what I'm saying? Well, they missed, to Jason's point, they missed the point of the Holy Spirit to begin with. It was never to empower you for you. It was to empower you for Christ to do as well. And so that was the point they were missing. I do want to make a contextual point here about this section because he says in verse four, we said before when he starts out about. Chapter one.

So he brings this idea about angels. And this is just as an illustration to show his superiority as we've established. But in the passage we just read in 2-1 through 4, he's making a little bit of a transition. He's still using the same arguments because he's going to mention angels again. But he's making a transition now. Jason, you hit the key word is salvation because now he's going to go from talking about why Jesus is superior to angels is because of he's now a human being. So this last part of chapter two, it's all about what does that mean? Why would humanity be valuable enough?

Because you think about it, angels can't be saved from their sin that we can see in the Bible. That's never talked about. In fact, from the text that you mentioned in the last podcast, I had in Peter, it sounds like once they fall, there's no coming back. Because some did fall. Thrown into gloomy dungeons, whatever that is. Awaiting the final punishment. So the idea is that the main reason, the superiority of the angels,

even though they're powerful beings. And look, they can do amazing things. We talked about that in the podcast. All the different things that we find there, they can guard. how in the human mind the angelic beings might be because he's trying to show

them look humans tend to say oh the angelic beings you know the angels of heaven that tends to capture their motivation and as we said and here he is a mere human right but somebody says yeah but you forgot one thing he's God in flesh that's right that's a pretty tough argument to me look God in flesh

did not become an angel he became a human that's right and so that tells you something about the design. So I want to make that contextual point because that's where this next section is headed. And you said the word is salvation. That's the key. We are saved because Jesus became one of us. Bose brings it up when he's saying you have to convince the ones that follow Muhammad at this current stage. He said, you have to convince him that Jesus is God. But you have to convince everybody of that. Right. Exactly.

And then I think our attitude, whether it's towards angels in general or towards Satan, which we know is more than likely an evil angel, along with a lot of other spirits and demons, you have to treat them with respect. Yeah. And so the idea is they are very powerful. Be careful. They masquerade as angels of light. Exactly. That's a lie. And so it's easy to be sucked in by this.

And so, you know, I think they've tried to do it like in movies and stuff. Jason, you remember that movie about the Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino's, he was like a lawyer, and it turns out Al Pacino was the devil just incarnate into some person. But the whole idea was a long scheme. Do you remember that movie? I can't remember the name of it. No, the little bit in verse 6, Al, and again, when God brings his first born into the world, talking about Jesus, he says, let all God's angels.

worship him. You see what I'm saying? That's his point there. Right. And so I think as we shift into verse five, he continues his thought. But now there's a big shift because he's going to start talking about people now instead of angels. He said, it is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come. So he says it right there. Angels are powerful, but that's not why he came here. It's not about their salvation about which we are speaking. But there is a place where someone has testified, and now here's going to be another quote from Psalm. This is Psalm 8. What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man, that you care for him. You made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet. And that's from Psalm 8, 4 through 6. And then he's

going to... Including the angelic beings under his feet. There it is. Cade put it up, the devil's advocate. It's a really interesting modern take on the evil one schemes, but thanks for that, Kay. In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present, we do not see everything subject to him. That was your point out in the break time of the resurrection. But we see Jesus, who has made a little lower than the angels, twice he said that now, now crown with glory and honor because he suffered death so that by his so that by the grace of

God he might taste death for everyone he's he's he and they're that's the ones in waiting they've passed on their souls and spirits are alive but they're waiting on their bodies it's a mighty throne exactly yep but he said the idea is when that's completed then you can say that's he pull it off. Yeah. You just need to make sure you're in on it. Right. You don't want to miss it.

That's what he says earlier. To my point, it says he revealed that by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone. That character, you're not going to change the world through the miracles, the signs, and the wonders if you're not pointing to Jesus. Right. He's the one that makes us perfect. And he goes on to say in verse 10, In bringing many sons to glory,

it was fitting that God for whom and through whom everything exists, that's a bumper sticker moment, for whom and through whom. So you have your purpose and the means on how it happened should make the author of their salvation perfect. There's a word that comes up a lot in Hebrews. And that, by the way, complete. the idea behind perfect.

That's why people can understand that in first John where it says, you know, perfect love drives out fear. Well, what is perfect love? It's complete. It's having an understanding of who you are in the flesh. Right. It's God. It's not us.

It's not us. You ain't going to find it here. Remember the old movie, you know, you complete me? That's true because God completes us. That's what makes us perfect. And then he makes reference of the one we read last time, the one he makes men holy and those who are made holy of the same family. That's to your point.

He became human for us. I'm feeling better at each passing statement. Oh, me too. Reading this. This is, this takes me back to when I was on the couch at 14, trying to understand why I'm here and who Jesus is. These are the moments that I thought, whoa, this was a plan.

This, there is a God and this what do you do? That text said Jesus is your brother, and he's proud to call you, brother. I'm like, good night. I'm feeling better about this whole thing. And then those passages we read earlier, it said he was God's first born, meaning glorified God in flesh, meaning that that's the doorway for us to experience the same thing. I will declare your name to my brothers in the presence of the congregation. and I will sing your praises.

And again, I'll put my trust in him. And again, he says, here I am. And the childrened God has given me. Yeah, all those are quotes from Psalms and Isaiah. It's part of your family, which just think about that. Jesus being the head of your family, Al. Right. Well, you think about what the Hebrew writers doing you.

How much better could it get? He's reaching back to these verses that they know. And they're, he's saying because of their Jewish history. and he's like, that was talking about Jesus. This has happened. This is how good he is. So whether you're on the other side of the cross or the other side of the ocean,

you still have to go through the same process of Jesus is real. He is God. He reveals the character of God. If you want to know what the creator of the universe, I mean, I could not have been to a more spectacular place this past weekend in California as far as observing the creation. And at every step, you know what I thought? Man, God built this.

But it gets personal when he built it, he built me, and then he designed a way for him to become a human, walking around on the same earth I was, revealing the character of God. He's the connection. Which is at the top of the list is, love. Right. And that's where salvation comes from. That's why he started off. Hang on, Jay. Let's take a break. He talked about that powerful word and he talked about the confirmation of using

the miracles and signs, but you just think, what could God do when it comes to revealing his power? I mean, what can he do? I mean, the better question is what can he not do? I mean, if you want to see God's power. That Luke 4 over there we read, he was saying, and basically I can do anything. Well, if God wanted to reveal his power, I think it'd take about two seconds to get the world's attention. Right.

But he chose to do it through the greatest power as far as transforming hearts and souls, which is love, because that is his character. Right. So I was going to mention in verse 10, I wanted to highlight a word. So when he's talking about it's fitting that God for whom and through whom everything exists,

your bumper sticker jays, should make the author of their salvation. That word author, and it's the same one you see in Hebrews 12, the author and perfector of our faith, that word for author can also mean pioneer or pathfinder. You'll see that in other places, same Greek word. But I just, I love that idea about pioneer because that really strikes at our, sort of our American experience,

because we think about pioneers, there's people that just took off across the West, dangers. I mean, you know, to face all sorts of things to be able to, you know, set their own roots and to show that we can go this way and we can survive and we can build. That was the concept behind this word of what Jesus did for us. He is the author. He is the pioneer of our salvation and our faith, according to Hebrews chapter. And you think about it, Al, noosticism says, I mean, he really wasn't God.

You know, not, well, the Hebrew writer said, since the children have flesh and blood, he, Jesus, too, shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is the devil. You say, well, what in the world? If he says he shared in their humanity, he became a human. Right. And John, John over there, said, don't believe ever spit, but test the spirits from God because many false prophets are going out in the world.

This is how you can recognize the spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. And every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. Start there when you're hearing people pontificate on various issues. If they don't believe Jesus came in flesh, they're out. But there's still being debated. today. Still being debated.

People even listening to our voices, they can say, well, wait a minute, I thought you said he was the son of God in Hebrews 1-3. The sun is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being. And now over here you're saying, well, he's human. He became a human. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity. I think it's pretty clear he became a human. Yep.

But what my point is, and I brought this up before, but I think it's needed to be said. You know, they came out, my buddy Dallas, and they come up with the chosen, and they show more of the humanity of Jesus. Well, they didn't get that. That wasn't something they made up. They've been reading a book of Hebrews. He became a human. That's right.

They showed it, and people are, oh, wow, whoa, whoa. I saw Jesus smiling. I saw him down there drinking wine with a bunch of sinners. He's a, he's a drunkard. Which, by the way, is what they said about him in his day. Well, exactly. And he's not doing any, they're not portraying anything that is not logical, in my opinion, of reading the gospel. His character and his heart are perfect.

But he was a human. He had struggles. I mean, he goes on to say he was ten. tempted in every way. Where's that? Or is that when we get to... Yeah, that's at the end. That's 18.

Yeah. He says in verse 17, for this reason, he had to be made like his brothers in every way. He was a bona fide human in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest and service to God and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. An indestructible God said,

I'm going to become a human being and I'm going to die for the sins of the world and my blood will cleanse them. Three days later, I will also give them eternal life by being raised from the dead. How hard can it be? Well, it's pretty difficult, Phil, for people wrap their head around.

I was jumping ahead to chapter 4.15 when he says, we don't have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with their weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are. Here's the key. It was without sin. His character was flawless. It was perfect. That's how this salvation came to be because it was an innocent sacrifice for our sins.

Now, he's using the illustration of their system where the high priest, was offering sacrifices. But I got news for you, the implied fact in that, is that that high priest had problems just like you did. Yeah, and one of them was he died and stayed dead. Yeah. Well, yeah, and he sinned, just like I do. The difference in Jesus, he might have had struggles,

he might have had problems, but he didn't have any sins. And that's a huge difference. But we don't want to embrace the idea that he had struggles and problems. as a human. He was tempted in every way. What does that mean? He had struggles, temptations, and issues and life happened. I mean, the devil even tried to convince us. Yeah, he became a human. The difference was how he responded to that. So then people get in there and start trying to say, well, when he cleared that temple, now that looked like a fit of raise to me, Hebrew's force says, yet was without sin. Well, whatever he did, was it sinful?

Righteous indignation of some sort, but not sinful. That was holy. Well, besides, even James said don't sin in your anger, meaning that anger is not a sin. But the point is out, the fact that we have to make all these arguments about this means you're not looking at this from the right perspective. That's correct. You're trying to make some kind of legal connection to Jesus' ministry and work without realizing he's a son of God in human form. Right. It's just hard to wrap your head around.

I mean, we all wrap our head around it because we talked about it for 40 years. But a lot of people, especially in this environment, the people that he were writing to, but I don't think not too far away, that's why I brought up the Corinth in our urban cities, it's just hard for them to wrap their head around that there was, that God came to earth in human form. Right. Their response is kind of like Willie's response when I said, we go out and find lost treasure. He just blushed out laughing. Well, when we say, look, there is a God, and he came to Earth as a human. Well, they just, ha, ha, ha. That's a joke.

That's funny. And then the fairy tale. And then we don't, the religious world doesn't do them any favors when we make movies and make it so cheesy looking that he's not like any human I've ever seen. He was a human. He was tempted in every way, but we can't even do it in a show. And we have a hard time. And when a guy tries to do it, then they're ridiculed. kill him.

Say, oh, no, you're going too far. I mean, he's making jokes. You're reverence, not reverent. And not reverent because he made a joke. If you're a human, trust me, he laughed at something. He did. And we know he was. Let's take another break.

So I made the point, Jason, in the podcast that you weren't here for, that one of the things, one of the reasons, and this is just my opinion, about why I think that this was such a problem. Because he spent a big section making this comparison. Even this last one, we didn't read the one verse in there. that one little verse in 16, for it is not angels, he helps, but Abraham's descendant. So he's still on that same thought about back to angels. He is.

And one of the reasons why I think he makes the comparison, and I mentioned this before, is that from a Jewish mindset, think about this. So when the law comes down on Sinai, who was there as the arbiter of from God's realm to Moses, angels? And it was, as dad described it, it was fiery and powerful. powerful and scary. The whole thing is shaking. And so from a Jewish perspective, when the Jews are like this,

don't have him say anything. Please don't say anything. We were so afraid. So the old covenant is handed down there and there's angels. And then I made the point that when you look at the new covenant, because you look at when Jesus came here, dad read Luke two, who was there, angels, when he was getting ready to go to the cross. A mighty throng of them.

And when he was getting ready to go to the cross. cross, angels. When he was tempted by Satan, like all of us in the thing, guess who came to minister to him? Angels. Whenever the tomb was rolled away, guess he was sitting up on top of it? Angels. When he went back to the father, to the right hand, who showed up and said, what are you standing around here for? More angels. So really the... What are you looking at? The same way he's leaving, he's going to come back. So my point is, by the, but whether it's the old covenant or Jesus and the new covenant, angels were a big part of that. So I could see why people would think,

Oh, man, they're more than us. Plus, they didn't claim to become flesh. I will say, you know, when the three of them were talking, three men looked like three men talking before the destruction of Sodom and Gamarro. Yeah. The angels, and they thought they were humans. Yep. The people around Sodom and Gamaral, they said, you know, bring them guys out.

We won't have sex with them, you know. Right. Of course, the place was, you know, get out of here a lot because we're thinking to obliterate this thing. But, I mean, it's amazing that they came in human form. Right. And there was three of them first and one left. You say, wonder who. Same with Shadratt, Mishak, and Abedigo in the fiery furnace.

All of a sudden, some guy shows a who's that guy. Yeah. But the point is, if they, the recipients of this, they were familiar with the Old Testament. What happened with angels in the Old Testament? They were agents of power. Yep. And they, they yielded God's justice and carried out judgment. They brought more terror than anything.

Brought terror. Well, look, that's what's appealing. I mean, even to go back to the, to the illustration that we were making at Corinth, what did they do there? Well, they come up with all these gods. We have the Greek gods. And there's this quest for power in an earthly sense, and that we're more powerful than you.

and even to take the miracles of God and pursue the miracles, that power more than God himself is a temptation. Look, there still exist today. There are churches today that are in more pursuit of the manifestations of the Spirit than the Spirit itself. And if you read the Word closely, there's a noticeable difference in the fruits of the Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But the point being from 1st Corinthians 13 that we keep going back to and that he's making in Hebrews 2, Jesus is better than the miracles.

He has the ability to do all these things. But if you're giving him your heart, the greatest thing he's going to give you is this gift of love, not some kind of yielding power that's going to draw. He could draw all men to himself, That way, just by coming on a loud voice to the earth and announcing you have 30 seconds, I mean, he could do it. That's why I said, if you picture in your mind what God could do to get people's attention,

well, he could just have a natural catastrophic event that he gives a play-by-play to. But it's not, that wouldn't be love. That wouldn't be using the choice, the design that. he set in motion. Plus, to which of the angels did God ever say, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a foot stew for your feet? They're just ministering spirits. You say, that covers it right there.

Right. Which means they're ministering to a greater, they're ministering to a greater event, which is the relationship of God and people. That's what Jesus did. He brought people together because he became a man as the son of God. And he became that bridge. That is the event. That's the salvation.

The miracles pointed to that. And what was the result of it? The character of God is revealed in Jesus and in us, which is what? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, good. That was the point in First Corinthians. You're all hung up and arguing over all these other events. You've forgotten the gospel. You forgot Jesus.

point here. This whole system that I set up that you've read that you know was set up to reveal me in Jesus. That's how I'm speaking to you now. And it was just hard for them to wrap their head around. Let's take our last point. I have a pretty good feeling if I know I'm traveling around walking outside getting in my truck going into the woods. I feel pretty good if I got an angel or two hanging around. Interesting spirits given to serve those. And you feel better that you have the Holy Spirit in your heart, is what I'm saying. That's the most important. So it's interesting because when you go over to Hebrews 12, which we'll get to later in our study, when he describes what and who are in the kingdom of God,

angels. Remember it said thousands of thousands of angels in joyful assembly. And so one of the things I'm like really stoked about when we finally the resurrection is done and we're into eternity in the presence of God forever is getting to know these angels because then we're all now we got a relationship. You know, we're all in the same. So the ones you're going to be there, that's going to be really interesting because they're going to be able to say, do you remember that time and they're going to describe some time in your life where you were so afraid and you didn't know how you're going to get through it and then somehow you did? This was like, that was me.

You know, I was helping you, and you didn't even realize I was there. Yeah, remember about time it was on your tractor, and your disc hung up, and the tractor turned over on itself and said, in one of your shoes, brand new like this, one of my shoes. It was brand new, but there was a split in it. And the shoe was, I left that in the tractor. I got a shoe on my left foot, but not one on my right. Because when I saw it, I bailed to my right,

bounced off the ground, the tractor just came right, it would have crushed me to death. I came a millisecond, but this shoe was split. I came out of a, and this thing is tough, and it was just a split in it. I was on the ground looking, I said, boy, that was a close call, but one of them may say, yeah, I took care of that shoe for you. I took care of that on you. I know one thing, I cut it thin. Yeah, and I mean, that's what I'm saying. I mean, one of the things I imagine about, and I could be totally wrong about what it's going to be like,

but I just imagine a lot of conversations about figuring stuff out in your life that you didn't have an earthly explanation for. But then somebody says, on the divine side or on the other realm side says, oh, yeah, I was in on that one. Some have entertained angels without knowing it. Because, Chase, we read that scripture that says, I think it's in Matthew, where Jesus says, the you know says don't hurt little children he says because their angels in heaven are looking out for them and we we went into that that's a what y'all i have an interesting thought on that what did you all conclude on that well we didn't really conclude anything other than we know it's true because jesus said it but it was like what does that look like it sounds like he's saying that every

child has an angel looking oh i agree i think that's what it is because i think this if you're if you're we're We tend to look at it. We tend to look at it as, T-H-E-I-R. We tend to look at it as saved and lost, right? Yeah. You're either saved or lost. Lost or saved. Well, what about when you're a kid?

That's right. How would you classify that? I came up, I didn't read this other book, I came up with safe. You're safe, you're lost, you're safe in Jesus. Right. Well, think about being lost or saved. When you become saved, what happens? you now have Jesus, since you've surrendered to Him,

you have Him representing you in heaven, right? Right. And we represent Him on Earth. But what about when you're safe? Well, I think it makes sense where angels are representing, they're looking out for the safe because they're innocent. And so that makes perfect sense to me. Because life is bigger than, we only think about what's happening on the Earth,

But if our citizenship is in heaven, and that's where we came from, we were created by God, well, we have representation up there. And I think kids have angels. He's perfectly aware of the injustices that especially happened to the innocent. And I believe every one of those kids that have lost their life will experience heaven because they're safe. They didn't need the blood of Jesus because they didn't do anything wrong. I mean, I mean, Jesus dying for him showed the love, the same love that I think the angel representation shows.

I mean, because you're like, well, why do they have angels? Because he loves them. Right. He cares for them. He doesn't want anything to happen to them. Yeah. That's why he said when the children came up and he's like, hey, you let them come. Right.

You don't shut it. You made a real point on several occasions about children. Jesus did. And it really should give us cautionary looks to see what we do as a culture, as a country, as a world, and how we react to children. I'm telling you, and we talked about it before,

some of the things are going on in our own culture against kids, it really are to... Because look, these angels are powerful. And so you start messing around with the kids, you better look out as all I can tell you. And the threat won't be from us

as much as from them. And trust me, they can put stuff on you that's way worse than what we can put on. Judgments on its way. Yep. I believe that.

And I believe that he made a strong point about that. Well, I was going to say, for some reason, in the world in the movie making business, they're all, they're enamored with angels. There's been so many movies about angels. A lot of modern stuff, yeah, about it. Yeah, and I thought, is it because the Hebrew writer said,

look, Jesus is better than the angels? They're like, oh, let's do things about angels then. It's like they don't really embrace movies about Jesus. I mean, even the passion got a lot of controversy. Sure. You can do anything you want to in the angel world because people are curious about that. But it reminded me of the story in Second Kings. You remember it's a pretty famous story.

In verse 15, when it said the servant of the man of God got up and went out early and an army with horses and chariots had surrounded the city, oh my Lord, what shall we do the servant asked. Don't be afraid, the prophet answered. those who are with us are more than those who are with them and Elijah prayed oh lord open his eyes so he may see then the lord opened the servant's eyes and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire around elisha i don't know if you want to call those angels or just energy or i'm leaning toward angels He was angel.

So, but here's my point. Well, why didn't he just start there? Why do we have to go through the process of not seeing? And then you're, now you're getting back to faith. Because he's going to get to faith eventually. God in his wisdom knew how to reach us. And that's why he created this the way he did and the way he created us. but every time that something powerful happens, us is human, we're distracted by that.

We like the power. We're like, oh, yeah, look who's on our, now all of a sudden he's puffed up, but guess what? That's a dangerous position to be in. Because all of a sudden, then you start thinking, well, he must think I'm pretty important to send all these angels down here. He's missed the entire point on who's behind that. So my question is, Jay's, did Elisha, did he say, see them first or did he just know they were there?

They knew they were there. That's what I think. Just like what you said to. He wasn't even seeing it. I think he was just saying, oh, he didn't see him. Show him, guys. Show him what you got. He knew that it was about God and he's fully aware from all the Old Testament stories that

were going on that God has angels and this creation order is. And there are bad angels, the ones that have fallen. you know from grace or however you want to put it but so here we get to hebrews and even in colosians there was this temptation to worship these angelic beings over over the lord and you're like why how could that that doesn't make any sense but you see it that's what i kept trying to connect the dot you see it today is we want the power yielding aspects of god more than god through the lord because when you look at what Jesus did, you're like, oh. So you know.

He died. I mean, there's not, we're people, it bothers people when the, he came out with the sword and you're like, okay, now it's on. Peter, whack, cuts the ear off. Well, all of us, and especially us that like the kinds of movies we like, you know, from ultimate fighting to gladiators, and we're like, now it's on. Jesus is fixed to call down the angels. We're fixed to watch the most spectacular show ever.

No, if he said nothing. He went, was beaten. It's just not appealing to see the character of God for us in that way based on who. So I'm going to build on that in our overtime segment because I'm going to pull up Paul Harvey and tell the rest of the story of the one you told earlier to prove the point that you just made. BlaisTV.com slash Unashamed if you want to follow us over and talk and listen to overtime. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazTV at blazedtv.com slash unashamed.