Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 502 | Phil & Jep Robertson Examine the Bigness of God & How Much Sin Really Weighs

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

Jase and Phil are joined by Jep Robertson in the studio to discuss the bigness of God and to ask why Jesus really had to die. Zach discusses the movie being filmed about Phil's life and his hopes that people will look at Phil and realize that you can never be too far gone to be saved by God. Jase and Jep exult in how no sin can outweigh the infinite blood of Christ. Jase examines the problem of pouring new wine into old wineskins. Zach tells the story of a friend of his who was a heroin addict who felt he needed to get his life straight before he decided to follow Jesus Christ, in order to be worthy of the calling. Phil explains how God is the one who sanctifies us, not that we practice the process of sanctification in order to be saved. Get "Your Daily Phil: 100 Days of Truth and Freedom to Heal America's Soul" by Phil Robertson, available now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400235936 Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? The show's out, right? All the episodes have been released. Yeah, the show, by the time this runs, all the episodes will be out. Now, we're a few days before this. Jeff and I, we're fixing to go to New York, and I guess, what would you call that, promote the show? Yeah. At this stage, promo tour, they've dropped the first five on Fox Nation, and they've dropped the first five on Fox Nation, and they ran the premiere on Fox News that Jeff and his family came over to our house

and we all watched it together, which Jeff and I had already, I guess, seen it because we were in it. But I was surprised our kids actually seemed like they enjoyed it, which I was kind of surprised. They were laughing. That's what Silla said. She was like, Dad, you're really funny in this show. And I was like, well, I'd like to think I'm kind of funny all the time. Whatever you think. You got the seal of approval for my sister.

She watched it yesterday and was like, she said it was better than Duck Dynasty. That was her vote. Well, that's an interesting. Yeah. That's an interesting take. I value her opinion since she lived with us for, how long did she live with us for a couple of years? She had to get away from y'all's family. It was a turbulent time.

They dropped down to the lower echelons of the Robertson clan. And, you know, a budding new star is Jules Jepta. Yep, you're a budding emerging store. We named them Jules after the old Western you saw on TV, you know, Jules. But anyway, we named him Jules Zepta. But he finally got that little bit of that green going his way. still. I'm not sure we were doing it for the money, but.

Yeah, I know what, it's a long shot. I'm going to tell you right now, I did it because there are very few family-oriented shows that you can watch on TV. That's right. From the children to the grandparents, they're just not out there. I had fun just hanging out with Murray, like kind of behind the scenes. Like, we would stay at a lot of these old places. And he would tell me stories. He'd always bring a book, like, of what happened in the area.

And he would kind of read. He was like reading me nighttime stories about like, but it was so much fun to learn history. Like, he is a history buff. I was impressed with the, without realizing it, they put forth a good view of southern hospitality with the people's land that they were looking for the treasure. Oh, Phil, that was, we did that on purpose.

I mean, you know, we had shrimp, fried catfish. I said, you know, that's pretty good. Hey, I'm going to tell you this, most people would have a. hard time believe in this but that first episode they did that meal 100% on their own there was no we didn't conspire look I could tell that look I could tell when we got to their house the the show what we call the showrunner she's like I mean they cook this meal for y'all I mean what are you going to do I said I'm hungry we're fixed to eat it and I said and y'all need to film it I said just don't get up all in our business I was like stand back away's

film what happens, and then y'all figure out how to put it together. In view of our culture these days, literally the fish fry, the people where they were doing the searching, you know, to put a feed on like that, gives you a good glimpse of the way culture ought to work. Yeah. And look, Jeff. Much needed.

I thought it was one of the stronger points of the treasure hunting episode. How good was that meal, Jim? It was super good. You know how sometimes somebody fries the fish and they overcook it and their grease ain't the right temperature? Oh, it was perfect. Oh, I could tell. I started eating and I thought they've done this many times. Oh, yeah.

You couldn't be this good at this because it was no different than what. They tapped us for a duck on, I noticed. Yeah, I got to take those boys. Which is a good thing. I got to take those two boys. Remind me of that, Jim. Well, why did your sister, what was her, why did she like it better? Did she comment on that?

She said the producer. of the show, one of the producers was extremely talented and that's a joke for those of you all don't know. I was one of the, sort of the producers on it, brought the show together.

But now she said it was authentic. She said it was realistic. You know, because a lot of scripted, a lot of unscripted shows are kind of scripted, really. But she just thought it was real. She said that you guys came across

the G. And I think the Murray component is huge. I mean, Murray is such an amazing guy. That part where he tears up, you know, that, That hit me the first time I saw it, didn't we? Because we filmed that during the beginning of all this. We had a ton of footage of interviewing you guys.

And that one moment where Murray tears up is just so authentic and real. And it shows the depth of y'all's relationship. Yeah. And, yeah, I think it's kind of a relief. I think people are sick and tired of kind of agenda-driven entertainment. It's nice just to be able to sit down and watch a show, no agendas, just laugh, You see a family coming together. You see people having a good time doing something that may seem mundane,

but it's really just something special about you guys coming together. So she loved it. She made a point to call me. Well, you know, that's what? She said, what do you think? I said, that's good. She called me. She said, it wasn't good.

It was great. Well, I think in the TV world, it scares producers and production companies when you start talking about unscripted and going out there and kind of flying by the sea. pants, which is kind of stressful in the moment, because, you know, a couple of the episodes, we literally were looking at each other, like, well, I mean, it just nothing was working. Sometimes you don't find much. You don't find much.

It was kind of refreshing to watch a show like that, and no boobs right there in your face. Well, Phil, you can guarantee you that that's not going to happen. I will say my favorite part of anything. that's happened. It was actually a promo commercial by our wives, Jeff. They wanted to do a commercial that kind of was self-deprecating in that because when our first duck show came out, there were a lot of people accusing our wives of being gold diggers, which we all found hilarious, because when we got married, we had no money. I mean, absolutely nothing. I mean, my wife had more money than me and she was considered poor her dad was a preacher you know and uh so i don't know

if that was a burr in their saddle but they decided to do this little commercial for the show and uh i thought it was the funniest thing of anything that was done and it's funny came from there because now they're technically gold diggers for real we're looking for gold in the dirt it's pretty funny Y'all had a funny one too when Jep tried to hold your hand. That was, uh, yeah, that was also my wife's idea. She was like, because we were shooting those promo things, she was like, you ought to just reach over and grab his hand because I, she knew he would hate it. So I was like, I'll do it.

I don't care. Well, you got to remember from our childhood, the number one thing that caused fights was the touching of one another. I mean, like, Jep or Willie or, you know, you just like touch my shoulder, just keep doing it, just bugging you just like try to grab your ear and next thing you know we're rolling around on the ground yeah don't touch each other wow it's a bit it's exciting to see it unfold and something that started right here on the unashamed podcast that's where the whole thing started which is kind of cool to see it kind of full fruition now there's a TV show out there that literally started with I saw you guys on the show talking

and Jeff, you were on the show several years ago. Because it was a new hobby. Yeah, you guys had just started doing it. And I was like, man, that's your TV show. And Jason's like, nah, that never worked. I said, I'm telling you guys, I tell you what, you go put it out there to the people. If they vote, and I forgot what the parameters were, that you had like certain parameters. I think I had like 20,000, maybe 10 or 20,000 said, yeah, do this.

I said, I'll look into it. Yeah. And then you gave them my social media, my Facebook account, which got just, but luckily I had a public page from when I ran for office. And so that page just got flooded. I think we had over 70,000 people respond. And so then you were like, okay, let's do it. I'm absolutely convinced that the people who make the hardware searching for the detector itself, I'm absolutely convinced their sales are coming up.

Well, Phil, I appreciate that because you probably wasn't aware of this, but I have a Jace Robertson signature series. You're a wise man to do that because there's a lot of people who would like to look underneath the dirt to see what they could find. It's fun. You know, it's harder than, I don't know. I mean, learning how to blow a duck call is hard to do and learn how to metal detect is hard.

but it's you know you find a coin and someone in the middle of nowhere 100 and what 120 years ago 130 years ago it came out of his pocket somehow and i would think the whole thing was forested at the time now they've got farm fields where they were looking but at the time when that that go that piece of silver came out of that guy's pocket he sat out of that guy's pocket he sat down under a tree, having a cup of coffee, whatever, he came away to get in the pool, you know, medicinal pool of water. Well, he's down there in the middle of nowhere in Louisiana. I mean, that was a big stretch of hardwood timber.

Oh, yeah. So money would have been like falling out of pocket. It would have been in the middle of the woods. It wasn't like all. Well, and they built a hotel there. So, I mean, the fact that I found that coin. That's pretty interesting that at some point. About 130, 40 years ago, that silver piece slipped out of his pocket somehow.

He might have reached for his pocket knife, might have had a fight with somebody. But that coin hit the dirt, and old Jay's ran up on it. Well, just the idea of it is pretty cool. Well, what was interesting about that scene was I took off. We all took off hunting. You know, we just parked the rig on the side of the hill where we thought the hotel was. And I forgot my water. It was hot.

How hot was it? Oh, my gosh. It was over 100 degrees. It was a heated about. Now, 50 cents is a joke. But at the time this happened, I mean, I remember when Coca-Cola was a nickel. Yeah, it was a lot of money. I was in the first grade, it was a nickel.

Then it got up to 6 cents. But if you found a nickel in the dirt, which we were always looking, we'd get a nickel or a two or a dime. And, I mean, it was enough to go get you a little bite to eat in a Coke, a dime. Well, look. Well, 50 cents in that. 1875 or whatever. Yeah, I think it was 1877.

50 cent piece, quite a bit of, you could do a lot with 50 cents. Well, it's funny is I forget my water, so I go back, put my water in my bag, and then took five steps when you could see the vehicle, the, the, 6 weeks, the ATV was parked right there. And all of a sudden, it just, pump, pump, pump, pump, pump. And on those machines, when it hits the same number over and over, that's usually something good. I mean, it was just, that's why I was saying 90, 99. And so I was like, I think I got something good, but I was talking to the camera people, because I looked down there when they were, they were looking at J-Up or,

and I was like trying to say, hey, hey, and they edited this out, but I finally said, hey, turn the cameras over here. And then I, then that's where it picked up. I got 99. And I wasn't sure what it was, but when I saw that, I was like, are you, and the emotion poured out, Because I was still thinking, we're doing a show, we have no idea what's out here, we want to find some stuff. We want to make it not about the stuff we find, but it would be nice to find cool, valuable stuff. And so then when I saw it, I think that's really why we were like.

Well, didn't they say, I like the little blurb that they put over there. They had a little thing that said, this piece, this, silver. And y'all were talking about, you know, $300. Well, you know, you get $300. Yeah, I would never sell. But I think that's in better condition. Because really, that's why they put in, and the best condition is $300 or $400, which that's not the best. But it was in really good condition.

Like, collection, I've always collected, like, comic books, stamps, baseball cards. If they're not in, like, perfect, pristine condition, they're not worth near as much. So, coins out of ground. But if you find a coin, even if you got $200 that of it. you exchange one little piece of silver for 200 bucks, I could see how that would be a motivation. Yeah, well, I'm really into that. Yeah.

I don't like selling whatever. Hold on. Let's take a quick break for our advertisements. Yeah, so it's interesting when you guys got into this, primarily was because of Murray got you in first, right, Jace? I mean, that's how you got into it. It is. Yeah, because I owned that old place, and he wanted to hunt it,

And I let him hunt it. And he brought a detector out there for me. And I was like, because it was just overwhelming at first. I mean, he put coins down in the grass. And I, he's like, see what you're looking for? Yeah. But, I mean, look, I hunted. Which Murray, Murray's an interesting guy.

I mean, he, you guys had interaction with Murray long before this because he invented, tell the audience about the apparatus he invented for duck hunting. What was it, the mojo duck? Flapping decoard. He took the concept. I think the original inventor of the spinning wing was just, it wasn't a duck. It was just a spinning, glaring apparatus. It was just somebody in California come up with it.

It was just a roll about that long, and it would flash. It had a little wild. It simulated a hovering duck before it lights in the decoys, which if you think about it for a duck owner, that's a good thing. Yeah. Because if you had your decoys out and then you had one of them, given the appearance that he was fixed to light, well, if other ducks saw that, they would just zoom in there. But Murray came up with the idea of taking the apparatus and making it look like an actual duck. So you're basically taking the floating decoy, putting it on a pole, and then giving it wings. Yep.

And it's not as realistic, which eventually they got to putting the actual wings. but I actually think just the spinning part of it is more mesmerizing to a duck. Because if anybody's ever scouted ducks, when you look at a duck hovering from a long ways off, it looks like a duck hovering. Yeah. But that's why when ducks get right on top of it, they say, wait a minute. But then it's too late. Yeah.

So, yeah, he's a sharp man. I mean, look, he's an inventor. That contraction, he has big Sheila and little Sheila, as you. you find out later on in the series. I mean, he's inventing this. But he's also, what people probably don't know, is he's an amazing gunsmith to the highest order. He built my rifle like 10 years ago,

and I've, a lot of meat has ended up in my freezer because of it. I mean, it's like the most accurate rifle you can. Well, and he's just one of those guys that he can, like, build a truck. You just take all the pieces. And he just has that mind. That's why when we find stuff, I say, Murray, what is this? And most of the time, he's like, oh, that's a spark plug off of 1946 something, something. Yeah, it just spits out of me.

He's like, well, how would a person know that? And we converted, he and his brother, he and his brother, we converted both of them. And his brother was a great Bible study. We got down to faith in Jesus and repentance, baptism. you know, go into the world and preach the gospel, baptize them in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So I showed that to him at the end of the study. And he said, oh, I don't think you have to do that.

I said, well, I just think about it. And I closed my Bible, and I was walking in the kitchen to get me some coffee, whatever. He said, hey, where are you going? I said, but just think about it. The next few weeks, something, you know, if you think you read some, here's some more texts I'll give you. Just think about it. He said, I didn't say I wasn't.

going to do it. He said, I said, well, let's go then. He said, but I don't think you have to. I said, well, think about it. And that went on for about 30 minutes on, I don't think you have to be baptized, but stay here and baptize me. So finally, we went down on the riverbank. He walked down there, you know, he's passed on the other side, but he did. He did obey the gospel, no doubt. What was you going to say? I always said Murray is the guy you want with you. If you ever enter into an apocalyptic kind of reality, where society falls, that's the guy you want. Yep.

Well, the only time on this whole filming of this series, because we stayed just wherever we were at on location, and we would usually hunt for, what, three days? So Murray has a little place, and when we went up, They didn't, I don't think they filmed, they filmed us arriving there. That's right. But the actual staying there, how long did we last? I mean, it was, it was like a doomsday setup where there was no electricity.

It was a house big enough for one. Yeah. And there was, how many of us? This was a small storage shed, like small. And so Murray's like, we all stay with me. And so there was like five of us staying there. and Jeff and I lasted one night, and I said, Jeff, I think we're going to have to find a hotel.

I mean, I'm all for roughing it. I was on the bottom bunk. The upper bunk was about two inches from my nose. I was basically in a coffin, which I don't like sleeping like that. And it was just so primitive, you know, I mean, there was, because you just, there's no electricity. They had a little outhouse type deal that you turned on this generator and filled up. I was some water. But it was like three feet away.

And I just, I said, you know what? I didn't come all this way. And then we're filming all day. And you're just nasty and dirty. And I was like, I just can't, I'm not going to be able to stay here. But it was funny that Murray got his feelings hurt because he wanted us all to be together. And I was like, Murray, if you want to have guests, you need to expand your dwelling. Well, and Miss Sheila was there too.

so, I mean, I felt a little bit like a fifth way. I mean, his wife's there. Yeah, his wife was there. I wish to hang out with your wife. No, no. It did. We, well, so where are we, are we at Hebrews or Hebrews too, right? Well, I think you were in on this Hebrew study, were you not?

Well, I took off two days because we were working on the movie stuff. Had a great, did you guys talk about, uh, we mentioned it, but I wasn't sure what we could mention since you're the big what's your role in the in Phil's movie I think I might either be called an executive producer or a producer and I'm trying to figure out which what means what

so but yeah we had a pretty amazing time at Willie and Corey's oh we talked about that yeah we did talk about that yeah which I loved it because it was like cool to see all the projects everybody's working on I told Willie we need to get together like once a quarter just pray over everything to everybody's working

on because some stuff's like even like y'all show and phil's movie are completely different dynamics i mean one is heavy and you know it's a very heavy story the other one's very lighthearted but what they have in common is is that i think both stories or both of these projects are uplifting to the kingdom and those are the kind of projects we want to be involved in so that was special the other night that really was yeah it was i thought the highlight of it was also our kids lead and worship me had three teenagers. I don't know if Layla I cried from start to finish.

Did you, Jeff? Oh, I did. I cried like a baby. It was powerful. Yeah, it was. It was. Well, I think I cried the worst because I was speaking in front of it, which is weird

because we're not a family of criers. Everybody teared up that night, which was, you know, Layla's boyfriend was there. I think that was his first meeting with the family. And so he was like, whoa. It's just a, what about that? These people are really emotional. I was like, it's not normally like this, I promise you. Well, but Zach, I mean, that's your mom.

You know, our aunt Jan, she was instrumental. God used her to affect all of us in a spiritual way. And she brought, help bring Phil to the Lord. So, I mean, in the movie, there's an aspect of that. So, I mean, look, when you mentioned her, I thought, well, this is not going to last long. I mean, that you're going to be, you're going down a road of emotion. because it was just not that we all know I mean we're going to we're surrounded by these witnesses and aunt Jan is one of them but we just it's I think the emotion comes out because it's meaningful we're grateful and thankful of the work she did here you know for our family and for the kingdom let's take a quick break yeah you I think your your comment was probably the best compliment because you worked so hard on a project and when you mentioned you said you said you said he came up to me afterwards

and you said, Zach, I got to tell you, I have very few memories of that time period, but the ones I have are vivid. And he said, you said, you captured exactly what, what it feels like in my mind. Yeah. What we wanted to do. We wanted it to feel real,

you know. That was a scary thought for me. I had about seven or eight childhood memories that I can't purge from my mind, but they're like my secret thoughts, you know. It was just something life was tough back then. And so all of a sudden when that, when you showed the scenes of that movie,

they, I was like, wait a minute. I'm not sure I want everybody to know these thoughts. Because it felt so real. It felt like this is, this is what it felt like. So, but I got past it a couple minutes. So here we are. So I missed a couple of those doing that. So I think you guys left off in Hebrews too. Yeah, I mean, as an overview, and we got Jeff here, I mean, I gave a real simple outline, but basically, I don't know if I all wrote that down or not what my outline was, but I basically said the first 10 chapters was, you know, Jesus is awesome. And that produced a believe it spirit because he talks about faith in chapter 11 and the witnesses. and then a willingness to go be like Jesus, you know, in chapter 12 and 13.

That was my outline. Jesus is amazing. Believe in him. Go. I mean, but Al's outline was a little more sophisticated. And Phil, you wanted to add one point. He had some, we had some common words that we went through as far as let me look at Al's outlaw. You know, the word perfect is mentioned a lot.

the word better is mentioned a lot in Hebrews. And we went through these. Impossible is mentioned some. Of course, we know God is the God of Impossible and that where it's impossible for him to lie. And then Al had this thing. Oh, another one that was mentioned was eternal as compared to temporary.

These are just some themes in the book of Hebrews. There's about five times in the book of Hebrews, was at least five. We might find some few more. I don't know. And Al did this whole thing on, so let us, that little let us phrase is mentioned many times.

And so what were you going to add, Phil? I was going to add, just make sure that we work in these one, two, three, four, at least five times, the promise, our promises of God are brought up. It's impossible for him to lie.

And here's what he's promised. He said, I will deliver you and give you, and give you eternal life. I promise and I can't lie. Hold on to that. I love the way that reads. Don't you, Jay?

Well, I do. Because he talks about there's two unchangeable things which we'll get to in Hebrew 6th. He swore by himself, which is unusual the way it reads. Well, most people read that and they're like, well, what are the two things?

Because he says in which it's impossible to lie, but his nature, and it's impossible for him to love. lie. I mean, there's your, who he is is who he is. I'm going to give you eternal life and I can't lie. I swear to it. I mean, what a way to describe yourself. Oh, man. But the verses that go with that, you know, Hebrews 10, it starts in Hebrews 6, 13 through 19. And it comes up again in Hebrews 10, 23, then Hebrews 10, 36, then Hebrews 11, 17 to about 37. So it's mentioned at just in the right spots, in my humble opinion, it's great.

Because, I mean, you can start, I gave a lesson on it yesterday. That's what I spoke on. And I had 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 23rd, about 16 or 17 verses. and James James kind of finishes it up and James Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial right after the book of Hebrew because when he stood the test

and it is a test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him so James that's the way he worded it which is pretty cool after reading Hebrews it comes up again it is a lot said about the promises of God, like 7,500 times.

I mean, it's a lot in there about when he promises you, you can go to the bank on that. Yeah. Yeah, when you look at this passage in Hebrews 2, starting in verse 10, let's read it. I love it because it's just setting up this idea or furthering the idea of the preeminence of Christ. We mentioned little bit of Colossians last time. And Colossian says kind of Paul does a very similar strategy that the Hebrew writer does and kind of elevating who Christ is.

But it says, for it was fitting for Him, talking about Jesus, for whom all things and through whom all things, and bringing many sons to glory to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are, all from one father, for which reason he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will proclaim your name to my brethren in the midst of the congregation. I will sing your praise. And again, I will put my trust in him.

And again, behold, I and the children whom God has given me. So you think about the promises of God. The reason why, I think one of the big parts of the book of Hebrews is that he is claiming that the one who's making these promises, is the one through whom, the one for whom, all things are made. He's the author. He's the perfector of our faith. I mean, he is preeminent.

He is, you know, the Revelation said he's the alpha, the omega, the beginning and the end. It's the God of the cosmos is the one that's making the promise. So a lot of people read the book of Hebrew is they get to Hebrew 6 or Hebrews 1026, and as a believer, you may get worried about your salvation. But I think that before we get to any of those passages, is, we all need to remember that the one who made a promise to us is that he's going to sanctify us to the end is, is the alpha, the omega. That's a big deal.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, I thought about two, you know, we just had Father's Day not too long ago. And, you know, when he referenced in chapter one talking about, you know, the son in verse three is the radiance of God's glory. and the exact representation of his being. And then he quotes those passages in Psalms when he says, you are my son,

today I become your father. In that light, when he gets to verse 14, he says, since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is the devil and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their families.

fear of death. It just made me think that, you know, because Father's Day is a tough, is a tough day for some people. I mean, either they had a, you know, we were talking about Phil's movie. You know, if you'd ask me what I thought about Father's Day, the first seven or eight years of my life, it just wasn't a pleasant occurrence. And you carry that with you as you move forward. Now, in this case, the ultimate father steps in, in pursuit of all of us, but specifically in Phil, as the movie portrays, and you have this awesome heavenly father who is able to restore his children. But of all the ways he chose to do that, it's through Jesus.

You know, here, he's mainly talking to Jewish Christians who have all this ritualistic worship. That was God sanctioned in the way. the beginning and some of these people have put their faith and trust and other you know beings and angels and that's why he's addressing all this and who they are just being abraham's descendants so i just think it's really interesting the way the hebrew writer is trying to appeal to them in this family spirit this relationship idea that specifically focuses on jesus going all in on jesus as the representative of God.

It's just an interesting, moving, inspiring way to bring them out of what they were under. And it appeals to us because we all have our little rituals in life. I mean, let's face it, you are kind of what you are raised up and involved in, and I think their situation appeals to all of us, which is the mighty work of God, you know? How he brings us all under the same umbrella. No question. Let's take a quick break.

Yeah, I think that's why it's so incredible to me to read how, it's not just in Hebrew, it's really kind of this narrative throughout the whole Bible or a paradox that, you know, you see this elevation of this God, this, like I used to term preeminence, or supremacy or sovereignty, or whatever term you want to use to describe the bigness of God, which no matter what term we come up with, we're never even going to, even graze the hymn of the garment of how big our God is. But then you get to, like, verse 14, and you see that this God condescends,

this God becomes less, this God shared in flesh and blood. He himself, likewise, also not just shared his flesh and blood, but partook of the same, that through death, he might render powerless, him who had the power of death, that is the devil, and that he might free those who sphere of death were subject to slavery all their lives. So you start to try to get your mind around the God we serve,

and as big as he is, it just seems ridiculous how small he became if you don't understand who he is. But it's in that depth that God's here, and he comes here, we can't even really have an analogy for that because he's infinitely big and glorious. Yeah, I think the analogy is, is this is God's idea. You know, most people, when you start sharing your conversion or you say, you know, you start telling your story. But he's going to make that clear when he gets to chapter three. I'm jumping ahead.

But when he gets to chapter three, one, he said, he called this, therefore those who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts. on Jesus. Well, that little phrase, heavenly calling, I mean, God is the one who calls us through Jesus. It's like this adventure that we participate in and following Jesus. It is an adventure. I mean, just think about how our world changed once we had this God encounter in Jesus. But look, it found us. I think the difference in this and religion, which is what he is. he's somewhat attacking because of the ritualistic nature of what they were coming out of is that concept. It's not like we're, you know, we're doing all these grand sacrifices so that we feel like, you know, God owes us something. I mean, that's more of a religious view.

And God's, what he's trying to get us to say is, look, I called you. This is my purpose for you. This is, this was my idea. And to me, that's inspiring. Not only does he call you, he is the one who sanctifies. This is what he says here. The one who sanctifies and the one who is being sanctified, Hebrews too. It says here he's the author of our salvation.

It says here that for whom all things and through whom all things. So you get this idea. that as humans sometimes that maybe we're somehow manufacturing our salvation or maybe we're stumbling across some kind of something in the woods we find, oh, yeah, let me make this decision and do this. But we must never forget that the author where it all originates, to your point, Jason, really to the Hebrew writer's point, it all originates with who God is because I love how you said that.

It's his idea, not ours. I like the family type atmosphere in the king's. them, both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus, one of the greatest verses in the Bible, is not ashamed to call them brothers. And he quotes Isaiah chapter 8, you know, I will put my trust in him in verse 13 of chapter 2. Here am I and the children God has given me. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shered into humanity. family,

human, glorified human, if you want to call him, you say, boy, what a step in time when God Almighty becomes a human being and not ashamed to call us brothers. That's a powerful way to look at Jesus. You know what I'm saying, Zach?

Family, brother. He's our savior. He's our brother. I mean, man. I guess, Go ahead. Makes it real. Yeah, first 17 in Hebrews 2, it says,

therefore he had to be made like his brethren at all things. So one of the questions in theological circles is, is that Jesus have to die? And the answer is yes. I mean, Paul says in Galatians 4, if salvation could have come through any other way, then it certainly would have. And he had to become flesh.

He had to become flesh. He had to be made like his brothers so that he might. become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God to make propitiation for the sins of the people. In other words, that means to make payment. There had to be a payment for the sins of the people. And that's true for us today. I think that's why it's important to understand the bigness of God because when we start thinking to ourselves, man, look at what I've done. It's one of the things of the movie.

I really hope people see. I hope they look at Phil's life. And I hope they think, man, If they think they've gone too far, I hope they can see the man you are today. I think they'll be shocked at the man you were. But that shocking, that shock is good because we have to understand that there is no penalty or there's no payment. There's no amount of sin that anybody could commit that's worth more than the blood of the infinite God. Nothing. Nothing is outside of his grace. And so I think that's the point he's making here.

made the payment. He made the propitiation for sins of the people for sins. He himself was tempted in that which he suffered, has suffered. He was able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. He's been like us in every way. That's why he's the perfect

sacrifice and the perfect priest. And I think at the same time, he's taken on the idea of religion that you're pretty good. You think about what religion does versus what God does. And what I mean that is just the order of religion is that we have all these dividing lines.

It's like, and just to give you an example, I mean, we tend to say, well, I haven't done the big sins. You know, I got some, I do the little sense. So in our minds, that means you're pretty good. You know, he's here most of the time. You know, he attends church. I mean, that's kind of the way we view how someone. tell little white lies.

Exactly. Now, do we do that or not? The white part is where the trouble is, Jay. So my point is, so if you read something, in this context, if you read like Matthew 9, I think this really goes along with what he's trying to do. When he called Matthew, Matthew 9, as Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth, and he said, follow me, which goes back to my point, this is God's idea. The adventure came to Matthew. He's just sitting there and he's deemed, he's deemed by any stretch, any people's stretch of the imagination is not a good person because

he's a tax collector. I mean, even from a political world, because we tend, Jeff and I was talking about this earlier on the way down here, you know, the difference in a real conservative and a real liberal is we just have a different place where we put the line. I mean, but No one likes the IRS. No one likes the IRS. That was where I was going with that. But here comes Jesus. So God revealing himself and he says, follow me.

I mean, why would he do that? And look, I don't blame the Pharisees because while Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and sinners came. Now look, from a religious viewpoint, you're saying, see, this is why you don't do this because now look at where this leads. Now you've got the worst of the worst all gathered up in it. What are y'all going to do? Sing little worship songs and all? I mean, this is just turned into something that they don't want to be a part of. And he ate with them and his disciples. So the Pharisees saw this, because they have a line that they've divided in the name of religion. And they say, asked, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners? They got quotation marks on sinners. So evidently, they've been doing something. big sins. He's up for no good. It cannot be anything godly in this.

I mean, you're kind of seeing it from the light, which I think that's the whole point of Hebrews. Because the same audience, these are Jewish Christians. Let's take a quick break. On verse 12, on hearing this of Matthew 9, Jesus said, well, it's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. And I think this next verse is, and this is a quote from Isaiah and I think Josea, but I really think this gets to the point of what we're discussing in his audience in Hebrews.

He says, but go and learn what this means, which is kind of hilarious. Because he's like, it's going to take you a while to figure this out. You're literally going to happen. This is not going to happen in a hurry. I desire mercy and not sacrifice, for I have come to call the righteous. I'm not come. Yeah, I have not come to call. the righteous but sinners.

Now look, I meditated on this and I thought about this. I was like, what was he trying to say? And then it kind of hit me. Well, he didn't come to call the righteous. Why? Because he said over and over, there's no one he's righteous. And really what hit me in this moment is forget our dividing lines in religion. The dividing line is you have to realize that you are completely and utterly morally

bankrupt before you can entertain the thought of needing Jesus. And that's what you have to think. You can't justify it by, I'm pretty good, I haven't done the big sins, I'm going to do better. Everybody's sins and they die, and there is no exception. You can do however many rituals you want, you can believe what you want, you can do, and that's why it hit me about those sacrifices thing. They were doing these sacrifices and they were saying, okay, we're. good. God owes us forgiveness because we're doing the ritual sacrifice. We're doing the ritual sacrifice.

So when you get to Hebrews, he's like, you're good because I came down there and lived a perfect life and showed you how to live. And then after becoming one of you and then dying once in for all, which he's going to get to in chapter nine. And that's why he said, I desire mercy. And that's why depicted him as a merciful and faithful high priest, who, by the way, was sacrificed for us. But our reflection should not be to play this religion game and play the dividing line game, but to realize that we're all sinners. So then he came up with that illustration after that about pouring the new wine and the old wine skins, and I really think that gets at the heart of the matter in Hebrews.

you've got to get rid of the old wine skin. This old way of doing that is not going to work. You're not going to be able to pour Jesus into that system. It doesn't work that way. He's 100% good and you're not, period. That's the dividing line. I think that's his point. Well, that goes into, I was just going to say,

I just had to talk with the guy and I said, man, I just think you need Jesus. And he's a fairly, he knows a little bit about a little. and he said, well, no, I got some stuff I got to work on in my life. I got to clean some stuff up. And I said, nope, you got it backwards. I was like, the only way you're going to clean all that up, you've got to start with Jesus. Then that stuff will work out.

Well, he does the cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I told my buddy Zach Ad, who he was a heroin addict. And he'd come through CR, was in a. halfway house and row and uh he was waiting to get baptized and i was what are you waiting on man and uh because he had put his faith in jesus and he was you know walking the lord and so i'm going to wait to i'm sober a year i think i've told this story before on here they'll wait till i've been sober a year and then i'll know i can do it i got to i got to make sure i can do this and i'll say zach you got it backwards man i told him

the same thing jeff i said you're waiting until you get it right to come to jesus now you come to Jesus to get it right. And I think that's, how many of us do that? Like, man, let me have some time in between my big last sin and the time I already commit to Jesus. You're not going to get it right. That's why I think that this passage here in Hebrews 2 is so important for us to remember that it is he who sanctifies. So we're being sanctified, but it's actually him. He's the one doing the sanctification. I'm not sanctified myself. That's not how this works. And so if it was, then we'd all be completely hopeless. I think you really see this concept that were portraying in Luke 15 that has a similar deal.

Remember when he was eating with the tax collectors and sinners, which, look, that's where we got the idea to even go treasure hunting. Because he tells these three stories where a lost sheep, a lost coin, and a lost son, which is way more impactful. I mean, it gets real in that moment. but even in that system the prodigal son who goes out there and lives like an idiot the whole point of the story is the other the older brother well he was living like an idiot too but just in a totally completely different way he was using his good deeds and him not doing that to justify this that's why the story should be called the gracious father because it really wasn't about the son or the, you know, we call it the prodigal son.

It was about the loving father. I mean, that's who should be getting the impact there. Here's what the Pharisees said about Jesus in that Luke 15. The tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear him. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, this man welcomed sinners and eats with them. boy is he on the like you need to find a group where there are no sinners and have a meal and that's why i said jesus flipped that on its head all right we're going to keep talking

about this in overtime yeah let's do that uh you guys we're out of town today we'd love for you to join us behind the paywall exclusive members of blaze tv the website is blazed tv.com slash unashamed that's blazestvcum if you go there you'll get ten bucks off your subscription, which I think is $89 a year, which is about what, less than $10 a month, and you guys can get all the exclusive content we do here, plus all the other stuff with Browder and Limbeck and whoever else is on the network. Go check it out. I'd have you guys on the other side.

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