Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 503 | Jase Dines in the Lines of a Russian McDonald's & What Inflation Really Means for Believers

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Jase tells a hilarious story about the time he was leaving Ukraine with a crate of cash and had not eaten for five days. Zach discusses inflation throughout history and paints an image of why we do not put our faith in the physical treasures of this world. Jase explores the idea that the builder of the house has greater honor than the house itself and discusses Christians' temptation to worship creation rather than the creatOR.  Sign up to watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed Get "Your Daily Phil: 100 Days of Truth and Freedom to Heal America's Soul" by Phil Robertson, available now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400235936 - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I went to Bogota, Columbia. It's the second time I've been there. A beautiful place. I mean beautiful. What were you doing there, Joe? So I went with all God's children. I know I've talked about them before, but I still work with them. I love them. What do they do? Tell everybody what they do again. Yeah, so we do international adoption. and orphan care, which is kind of a newer thing. It's what they kind of brought me in for to try to help, you know, raise awareness and monies.

Stand by, yeah. Just start that last sentence over. So, yeah, we do international adoption and orphan care, which is basically what I spend all my time on is kind of raising awareness and money. to fund what we're doing over there. I'm a contributor, by the way. Yes. And so is dad.

I like it when you call me and say, thank. Thanks for the donation. But I do want to mention because we do have a little campaign we're doing to try to help these kids through sexual violence. So when I was there, I met this kid, Salome, went to her house. She's five years old. Tiny. She looked like Gus is like six and he's like three times her size. And this is your adopted son, Gus. Yeah, Gus is my adopted son.

And so we go to her house and she and her mother had been going to treatment that we provide at a facility to try to help kids and their, you know, mom, dad, who, you know, grandpa, whoever they're living with to get over, you know, sexual violence. And she was being molested by her mom's a boyfriend, which I don't know exactly how long that took place, but like a good one, I think a year maybe. And this little girl, this was so crazy. When we came in her house, just now were removed like six months from that, been getting treatment. She was so happy. She was reading to us. And she had all these little dances she was doing. She had a little puppy that she carried around with her.

So she seemed right, I could see where what we're doing is working. Because, you know, I would think she would be just head down, you know, super just not like she was. I was like, oh, man, this is great. And we talked to the people who counsel her, and they're just like, she has come a long way. But it's a big problem there, like sexual violence. It's like, it's a big problem everywhere. It's a big problem everywhere. But nothing makes me more angry in this society in our world as kids being taken advantage of.

And it's a global epidemic because there's evil in the world. So I commend you for your venture, which is why we all support what you do. I mean, if we're going to represent the Lord, I think in your top five, helping kids who have been abused should be at the top of our priority list. I wanted to finish that thought out. So we got a 25, we're trying to raise 70,000 to fund this. It's been funded for the past, I think, three or four years, but our funding ends pretty soon. So we got a $25,000 match going to that. So we're basically trying to raise about 45,000 more, hopefully in the next, you know, month or two.

So just putting it out there to the viewers, feel free to give all godschildren.org. We can do that. And we'll put it up on the screen. for people who are watching. But yeah, the trip was great. It's hard. It's hard to see these kids and you hear their stories and you're just like, who, it's tough, but awesome.

That we're there to help. I mean, they love us and love because they get it. We're not there to, for any other reason, but to help. Is it third world country life? I mean, what were you eating and what were traveling? That was a funny story. So, no, Bogota is kind of, it's pretty nice. I don't think it's considered

like a third world. So we get this like the nicest steakhouse they have. And get out the menu and I was like 46,000. I mean, I was like, it was like 4,600 for like a steak. And I was like, what is going on here? I didn't realize it took me a minute. I was like, it was not in American dollar. He was like, I was like, what is the exchange right here?

And I'm talking to her like our interpreter. He's like, oh, it's about. seven dollars i was like seven dollars for and it was a fine ribby huh but it was like seven american dollars that's it that's inflation right there their their currency has been inflated against the u.s. dollar yeah yeah yeah interesting that reminds when i went to ukraine you know 25 years ago i i literally carried around the money in a box i mean i just knew somebody was going to knock me in the head because it was 750 to 1, I think.

So, I mean, I bought that coat that y'all made fun of me. I bought it for Missy. It was a women's coat. It was the only thing I found that was even worth money. And I think I paid $4 for it. So whatever that was, I was like $3,000 of their money, you know. But it was a sad situation. I mean, we're kind of loud.

It was a sad situation that just you see these. You had a bulky, just a lot of money. Oh, I just, it wasn't worth it. I had a, it looked like monopoly money that was heavy, and I carried it on my shoulder. Because by the end, I was going to give it all away. So when we stopped through on the way back to Russia, and I went, I basically spent all that money moving up the line in McDonald's. Because it had just been built back then as the world's largest McDonald's. I mean, I had eaten in five days legitimately.

Hunger came upon y'all. And I was just doling it out because I figured if I just give it away, maybe somebody won't knock me in the head by the time I get to the front of the line. And so by the time I got to the line and paid for my five happy meals that I ordered for myself, I just had an empty box. And if we're not careful, we're going to end. up in the same predicamentarian with the kind of inflation is going on now. It's tough times.

I mean, you're wondering how low economic, you know, jobs are even making. I mean, it's, what are we, $5 for a gallon of gas here now, seven in California. Six bucks for a gallon of diesel. Yeah, it's incredible. You should research the Weimar Republic, which after, I probably don't butcher this, but after World War II, and after World War I. the Germans had a lot of war debt that they were forced to pay back. And so they started to print money to monetize their debt.

And if you read the stories of how quickly the German mark just completely collapsed, they would bring wheelbarrels full of money down to the place to pay their light bill because the dollar had been, I guess the mark had been deflated so much. And I think the exchange rate at the beginning of all this was like one to seven or something like that. And by the end of them printing money, one U.S. dollar would buy you like $1.2 trillion German mark. The prices on a menu when you went out to eat, the price would go up by the time you got that eating so people would want to pay for their meal before they ate because by the time

they got their eating, the price had already gone up. It's crazy stuff. Well, it's simply the practical application of that is if you put your hope and dreams and goals and finances, it's just you're doomed to fail. I mean, even if you find, we've all been blessed, but that still is not going to get your body out of the ground.

It's not going to give you a purpose. I mean, we're focusing on Jesus' first 10 chapters, but you just think about God's plan. I mean, Jesus didn't come with an entourage and a Bentley, throwing out $100 bills everywhere. I mean, he had nothing, not even a place to stay. I just think the contrast of that is when you really want to have something this life altering, you have to discover that God has a plan for everyone,

and he did it through the spiritual transformation of the heart. And look, he's going to take care of you because the big stuff, sin, death, purpose, all of that is answered. Now, that doesn't mean the rest of it's not going to be bumpy, but it reminds me of that Paul's illustration in Philippians 3, which I think directly ties into where we're at in Hebrews because we're going to get into chapter 3 today. But when he talked about that, put no confidence in the flesh,

Philippians 3, 2, he says, watch out for those mutilators of the flesh, those men who do evil. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh. And then he said, though I have reasons

for such confidence, if anyone thinks he has reason to put confidence in the flesh, I have more. And then he gives his pedigree from the exact thing that we're battling in Hebrews. He says, I was circumcised

on the eighth day of the people of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews in regard to the law of Pharisee as for zeal, persecuting the church, as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. And then these verses in seven or eight are so profound. It says, but whatever was to my prophet, I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus, our Lord. was one other, I wrote down a, there was a... Why are you there, Jase?

Everybody needs to realize that when they read Hebrews, when you read Hebrews, since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity, so that by his death, this is Hebrews 2, verse 14 and following, that he might destroy him who, holds the power of death, that is the devil, and free those who all their lives were held

in slavery by their fear of death. What everyone needs to remember, you say, that has not yet become a reality because Jesus has returned back. He spent 40 days to deliver us from the fear of death and went back into heaven. So now here we are as a group, his kingdom, who are following him by faith. Well, the reality of him destroying the power of death is going to happen on his return because all the ones who wrote this, all the prophets, all the believers, all the apostles, the reality of the resurrection, they are asleep. Most of them were murdered and the Roman Empire slaughtered them. Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, 1 Corinthians 15, 20, because he starts inside if it's preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say there's

no resurrection of the dead? Well, down in verse 20, Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. Now here's where he's the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. The reality is not quite there yet. We're waiting on the return. I became flesh. That's how he entered the world. So watch. The first fruits for those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, Adam, the resurrection of the dead comes also through

a man, Jesus. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn, Christ's the first fruits. and here is the reality. Then when he comes, the end, here comes the reality of Satan being crushed as far as death's concerned. When Jesus comes, you could add back those who belong to him.

Then the end will come after God has destroyed all dominion, destroyed all authority, all power. He must reign until he put his, the enemy is under his feet and the last enemy to be destroyed, the reality of it is death. So when you look at it that way, you say, well, we've got this great hope. And all we're doing is waiting on the return, Jace, so that the destruction of death and the power of death can be done away with forever and ever and ever. So there is this slight waiting period, I guess I would call it. Yeah, let's take a quick break.

Well, that's where I was getting to. In Philippians 3, when he says in verse 12 through 14, he says, I mean, whatever confidence he had in flesh, that that system he realized was not going to work. Just the same point in Hebrews, you're not going to be able to sacrifice enough. You're not going to be able to have enough rituals. You're not going to be able to pull this off on your own, overcoming sin and death. We all have to declare that we're just morally corrupt and in need of a Savior.

But I like how he words this in Chapter 3 and 12 of Philippians. He says, not that I have already obtained all this, to your point, Phil, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that. for which Christ Jesus took hold on me. And that was kind of where I got that point that God calls us. The adventure comes to us in Jesus. And it's a spiritual thing. It's not going to be, oh, I come to Christ and I'm going to make millions of dollars

and my life is going to be perfect here. Well, no. All these guys suffered mightily. They were murdered. and they didn't have a whole lot. But then it says, brothers, I did not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead. And that goes back to the point we made earlier that when God calls us, he calls us from something to something.

And so what gets into that illustration that Jesus made about trying, when you're trying to pour the new wine into the old wine skins, it's not going to work. it's going to burst. This is a complete and total sellout in Jesus and full control taken over by him. And so then he says, which mirrors Hebrews 3-1, he says in verse 14, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. So when you come over and read Hebrews 3-1, it says, therefore holy brothers who share, in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus. So he took us from a transition, and we talked about this in the overtime of the last podcast.

He destroyed him who holds the power of death. No longer could the evil one just take you out and that be it. Now, he thinks that's it in this world, and it may look like that because people die every day. People who follow Jesus are martyred. But we know that we're coming back. He destroyed that. Romans of Romans 8, I'm convinced that neither death nor life or angels, nor demons, nor present,

nor future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God's in Christ Jesus. He said, death doesn't separate you. You live on, your children of the resurrection. They were struggling with it at Corinth. You say, but the reality of it, it comes, once you understand, the return of Jesus. That's all we're waiting on. Most people are going to be running away when Jesus returns. We'll be running to him. Yeah.

That's the difference. Well, and I think the underlying point of what he's trying to do here is because he brings up this argument in Chapter 2 and 16 when he said, for surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants, because that's where they came from. But the underlying theme of making this point about Jesus becoming like a human to save us and to destroy the power of death. It then echoes what he said in Matthew 28 when he said, you go preach the gospel, the good news that Jesus died and thus destroying the power of the devil. And he was resurrected so that we can live again. He said, you go preach that to all nations.

And I think that's the underlying point of this. They were happy in their heritage of being God's chosen people. And they were tempted to go back and go back to that system or, you know, to elevate the angels and put their faith and trust and all that. And he's trying to get them to view God's purpose as a bigger thing to all humanity. I mean, that, we all have this in common. And you just think about what we do in religion and what we do in politics and what we do in everything else in life. We like those dividing lines and we like to pick aside. It's the opposite of we've got it and you don't.

Exactly. Was their mindset. That's just what we tend to do. We tend to, you know, it's like almost, I mean, I'm, you know, embellishing this. But it's like almost when you hear somebody in the church do something. something really bad. And look, preachers all the time, they make the news about some horrible sin they commit. But in a way, it makes us feel better because we're like, well, at least I didn't do that. So somehow another, that makes me more holy and more in favor when in reality,

the favor comes from God's plan in Jesus and not how you're responding on a daily basis other than, And that's why I think Paul was the way he relayed that. He said, I'm trying to take hold to which Jesus took hold of me. He said, well, what does that mean? It's all about your perspective on what's the driving force for forgiveness and for hope and for purpose and for success. It's going to come through God's plan and your surrender to it. Yep. Well, you asked the question.

Yeah, J.C., you'd ask the question in the overtime segment. on the last episode. Yeah, I think the question was, what does it mean when he says, not the power of death, but what is the fear of death that holds us in slavery? Yeah, it's something we don't really talk about. He used it.

He said, Jesus came to free those who their whole life were held in slavery by their fear of death. And I said, that's not something we really notice. Now, granted, if somebody brings out a gun and starts shooting, we all run or take cover. Why?

Because there is an inherent natural fear of death there. Or, you know, if someone pulls over in your lane, you'll have a surge of adrenaline and quickly move out of the way. Why? Because there is a- Remember, Jace, this is the first time in the history of planet Earth that someone shows up and says with a straight face, I've come here to die for going up to Jerusalem. I'm going to die, be buried. In three days I'll be raised from the dead.

Yeah. And he ended up by saying when he did it, he did die. He was buried. That's the first time in human history. And no one has come along since that time with this kind of documentation. Yeah, to actually give evidence history. Historical evidence. Whoever lived and died and still live.

Yeah. That's how it's the first. Let's take a quick break. Let's take one quick break. You know, to your point though, Jace, I think that what the weird part about that passage is when we say they are there, they're in slavery. But then you look at people and people don't seem to be in slavery to the fear of death. But I think that we are. And I think what the slavery is, it doesn't say this in the scripture here, but this is what I'm extrapolating.

through my own life experience and others, is all of the things that we try to do to numb ourselves from the reality that we're dying. I mean, that's the slavery part. We're taking the things of God, whether it be in religious circles, maybe here in this context, our Colossians, it's the worship of angels, or even here in Hebrews, or it's the elevation of the law, it's the, you know, the priest, it's the whatever it is. Maybe it's sexual gratification, materialism, power. But all of these things are meant, as Jeff mentioned it earlier when he talked about his friend or somebody, you know, you're just, you're trying to stay fit. And hopefully you value yourself enough time to get an answer. But all that is, it's a distraction from the reality that we're dying.

And when Jesus came and finished his work on the cross, that's one of the major benefits of it is that we get a context for living. We don't have to. We still struggle with sin. to hide. We don't have to pretend. We don't have to numb ourselves in this reality. We can always remember, and you will really pay careful attention to your faith in Jesus. Once you get to what the age I am, I'm 76. So, you know, it's beginning to kind of shocking, like, whoa, I'm still here. You see what I'm saying? No, I think, Zach.

Oh, I'm thankful that I'm a child of the resurrection because the time is running out on this. first run. No, Zach, I think you hit it on the head. The only thought I had about this, what does it mean to be held in slavery by your fear of death? Because it's not something we talk about. It's not something you notice, but I thought about a famous Pink Floyd song, and I don't know all the words of it, but I remember the end where he said, I've become comfortably numb. I can play that song on guitar. But I think you're right. You have to find a way in your mind to not look at the reality of death because there's no outside of Jesus and that being real, not just like the world depicts it as a crutch for weak people.

But you have to, you're never going to say, oh, I'm going to die and deal with the consequences. people don't want to go there in their mind it's it's it's it's it's much more than a crutch people say oh you you believe in that

because it's a crutch I mean it's way more than a crutch it's a wheelchair it's life support it's the whole apparatus it's everything I mean it's our hope and I think what happens

we've talked about this a lot Jace that even the gospel itself can become an idol the Bible can become an idol Jesus stole the Pharisees. You studied the scriptures diligently, and by them you think you're saved. But yet you mess me.

In Matthew 12, he says, you know, the people of Nineveh, you know, repenting when they heard the message of Jonah. He says, somebody greater than Jonah's here. And yet you still refuse to repent. And I think the temptation for Christian people is that we worship religion. We worship our doctrines. We worship all these things of God that are good things. but the ultimate end of the story is God himself, the triune nature of God, that we get to be, as it says here, I love this time, we kind of skipped over it.

Verse 1 to chapter 3, we get to be partakers, partakers of heavenly calling. And 2nd Peter, it says this, chapter 1, verse 4. He is granted to us his precious and magnificent promise. so that by them we may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. And so when we look at what's happening in Hebrews here, it's really a case that all of these things that God has implemented, including the gospel itself, is all pointing. Those are means to an end.

In the end is that we get to participate in the nature of God. We get to participate in the inner life of God. We get to dwell in the presence of God. That is the reward. The reward is not eternal life for the sake of itself. The reward is eternal life in the presence as participators and partakers of the triune nature of God. Does that make sense? No, I agree.

Well, I was going to say in my response to the Pink Floyd comfortably numb, I mean, Jesus became a God's plan. through the work of the Spirit, which you mentioned, which we howls, which is the whole concept of being born again. And you think about overcoming the fear of death. Well, if you have the Holy Spirit of God, Romans 8-11, the same spirit who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you. But when you look at the opposite of comfortably numb,

Jesus became uncomfortably dead for us to overcome that. Because his death was, I mean, uncomfortable is not a big enough word. I was just playing off what, I mean, it was brutal. He was, he was tortured. Oh. But, and so he died, which I think is his point, so that we could not have to try to figure out ways to become comfortably numb on the earth, which is what we do. And that's why everybody always says, oh, it was such a shock.

you know when that happened well really why are we shocked you know we're just we're living one day at a time and any day it could be this is this is the harsh reality of where we're at whether you're a believer or not you can you can dilute your mind into thinking that it's just not going to happen but the reality of it is scary it hit me hard well i've been out of college i went to Harding University in Arkansas for four years. And when I was there, I knew every place on that campus. That cafeteria was my cafeteria. That Chick-fil-A, that's our Chick-fil-A.

The dorm room was my dorm room, my hall, my bathroom. We occupied that campus as a group of people for four years. And then I leave for about 10. It came back to visit, and it was a whole other set of people. and it was like, it kind of hit me. This is us on planet Earth. Like there's a whole other group of people that live before us. It was their Earth.

And there's a group that's coming after us that's going to be there. It's just quick. It's just, it's so temporary. Phil, you said it. You're 76. I guess when you get older, maybe you start to complicate those things more. But I think that's what the Psalmist wanted us to contemplate when he wrote that in Psalms 91.

Teach me more to number of my days. Well, that's why you got passages like 1st Peter 1. you know, 23 that says, for you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable. I mean, there's a word you need to just dwell on. That's why when they jump up in front of it and say, get that effing bribled out of my face many a time. Get that, I don't want to hear anything. But they're turning away from their only chance to have no fear of death.

I'm trying to show them that. But they're saying hands on the ears, no, I don't want to hear that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And man, it's disheartening. Well, he goes on. Every time you see one turn, you're like, whew, man. Well, let me finish reading this. So he says, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God,

not the dead, not the historical dead leftovers of what happened. I mean, it is a living word when Jesus was raised from the dead. For all men are like grass and all their glory is like the flowers of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall. But the word of the Lord stands forever. And I think that's his point here in Hebrews, because he's saying, when you think about the implications of having the heavenly calling of God, if we're going to find God on the planet,

Because a lot of people are like, well, yeah, I would, you know, if there is a God, I mean, how would I know where to go? Which church do I go to? We ask all these silly questions that are legitimate questions, but they seem silly in reality, because if you're going to find God, it's a completely different perspective. He actually finds you through what he did in Jesus. I mean, there's a reason the Bible's been the number one seller ever since it came out. There's a reason we have this historical evidence. There's a reason we count time by Jesus. There's a reason that God uses people to share Jesus.

I mean, if you got it down to what we're doing, even this podcast. A lot of individuals. Yeah, it's getting out there. And then you have all these things that happen in life that remind you that you're going to die. I mean, I've told this story before, but there was a guy who I shared Jesus with multiple times, and he just never would move on it. He never would say anything. He just, but he would always show up and listen and listen.

Well, one day, years later, after he came to Christ, he said, you know what? Actually kept making me think about that, he said, every time I saw a funeral, every time I had to pull on the side of the road, because, you know, in our culture, you see a funeral come, you pull over. And he said, it would seem like it would pass by for hours. He said, the time just mounted. as a son verse. Because he said, no matter how I justify my life, because look,

you're talking about comfortably numb, had plenty of money, had a, you know, a wife that he loved, no kids, but, because he couldn't have kids,

but he just, he loved his life. He had plenty of money. He was having fun. He's doing all the hobby, but he's like, and then here you are sharing that, you know,

I need this in my life. And he's like, I don't need this in my life. I like my life. Because there are some people out there who are, under the they're comfortably numb they're like but he said man you share this and then every time i see a funeral he's like i i just can't keep living like i think this is going down some run

that's going to it this is not going to happen and yeah let's uh let's take a quick break so i think it's these concepts and principles is what he was trying to get at and that's why he said that by his death, that's when he interjected that. We have the fear of death. We know who holds the power of death. Death itself is something to be dealt with in reality. But that's why he became like us. And by his death, he freed us.

He crushed the evil one, so we never have to worry about this. And then he makes this transition into that, and so that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. And oh, by the way, he took care of your sins where you could be born again. You could start over. And that was his transition into understanding the heavenly calling, but you notice what he's trying to get us to do, to Al's point on these overall themes. So let us do what? Fix your thoughts on Jesus, chapter three, verse one, the apostle and high priests whom we confess and then he goes in and to finish this section i'll read it verse two he was faithful to the one who appointed him just as moses was faithful in all god's house so he used abraham as an

example because you got to remember the context of who he's writing these people you know jewish christians when he brings up moses just as moses was faithful jesus has been found worthy of greater honor better remember that's one of the fundamental themes here jesus is better then moses just and i love this illustration i've used it hundreds of times in bible studies and speeches just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself for every house is built by someone but god is the builder of everything moses was faithful as a servant in all god's house testifying to what would be said in the future And if I was like a dynamic preacher, I'd really scream on this verse six. Because, I mean, it is an emphatic point to me.

But he says, but Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house. I can say somebody's preaching. We are his house. People have surrendered to Jesus. If we hold on to our courage and the hope, which you're not finding in a jar, we talked about that in the overtime. You know, Oprah has a, as a, they sell a hope.

What, what is it called? Yeah, a jar of hope. You put this stuff on your face and you'll look like you're not getting old. You have that hope that you can, you're talking about comfortably numb. You see these people sleep at night, you know, they got all this stuff and they have blindfoldy, green avocados, and out, what are they doing? They're trying to become ageless. but we have this hope. We are his house if we hold on to the courage and the hope of which we boast.

They sell medicine, ageless, what's it called, ageless? I need to compile that list again and bring it. It's quite funny. I mean, because it'll say all these things, it'll have these eternal, you know, eternal perfume. I think there's one out there. I'm like, no, just think about that. there's i think calvin klein maybe makes it i don't know maybe i should name which one but eternity yeah eternity but look you say what is that trying to fight what happens when you die after let's say

four days you start stinking you start stinking yeah but no well what if you had that perfume on because it's eternity you're never going to stink yeah just give us 69 99 If one of those products promised on what they were advertising, it would shut all the other companies down. It shut the world down. They would shut the world. You built a tablet and you could get out and push it and you say, take this and you will live forever. It's $10,000. Bill, look.

It's expensive. I've used this. If you take this, everybody who takes it, they're guaranteed they will live forever. Phil, there was a clothing store. You know what the name of it was? Forever 21. You know what happened to it? It went bankrupt.

Yeah. Forever 21, turn 22. Look it up. Forever 21. We do it in our culture. Well, I wanted to explore this because we don't have long left. I wanted to explore this idea, this illustration where he made, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.

Because look, we sing the song back in, when I was, when you were first converted, you know, we went to a church and we sang this song. I've got a mansion just over the hilltop. I'm trying to quote this song now. In that fair land, or we'll never grow old. And someday yonder will never more wander, walk the streets that are purest gold.

You know, now look, When I sang that song back then, I thought, oh, this is good. I got a, I got a mansion. And you know where they get it because Jesus said, in my father's house are many rooms and all. But then he quickly said right after that, I'm the way. I'm the way. I'm the way.

I mean, it's who you're with. So you just think, would you rather God build you a house? Or would you rather spend eternity with someone who can build houses for eternity, which is greater. The builder. So let's say if you bought a house, you boy, this is a nice house. Would you rather sell everything and have that house? Or would you rather say, look, I would, I want to partner with the guy who can do this.

Tens of thousands of times. That's his point. So what does that mean for us? I guess it's a question I wanted to pose for you. Hey, think about in Second Thessalonians, because you mentioned earlier, we were talking In Hebrews, too, when he mentioned, I think your translation says atonement, and says propitiation, which is, you know, you're not hesitant, but you were talking about the propitiation has to do more with that there's a satisfaction of God's wrath.

Right. And I know a lot of times we don't like to contemplate the idea of God's wrath, but I think it's because we misunderstand God's wrath. Typically, we think that, enough to this before, that God has a barrel where he stores up wrath, and he scoops it out in his ladle when he gets really mad at us and he pours it on us and Jesus came to calm God down, say God's okay. But what you read in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 1, and then I'll make another reference to Romans one about the wrath of God. On the day of destruction, he said these people, on the day of judgment rather, these people, verse 9,

see, these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, which is hell. This is how he defines hell, away from the presence of the Lord, from the glory of his power. So to be in hell is to be cast out of God's presence so that you can't see his glory. And in verse 10, it gives the opposite of that when he comes to be glorified in his saints on the day and to be marveled at among all who have believed for the testimony to you, believe. So our reward is we're going to be able to bask in the glory of God, to participate in it, and to marvel at it. And those who will not, those who will go to hell will be cast out of his presence. So you go read Romans chapter one when it says the wrath of God's being revealed.

It tells us what that wrath is. It says it's being left to ourselves. It says because they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave themselves, he gave them, he gave them up to themselves. And so I think that when we talk about this idea that God is better than the house or the builders better than the actual building, we need to understand that the ultimate reward is not heaven because of the streets of gold.

I said it before. It's heaven because we're in the presence of God. And God's wrath is just being left to yourself. So he's building that case up here in Hebrew, he's saying, all these things you guys are worshipping, you're elevating over me. We do it all the time with doctrinal disputes. I mean, how many people do we know that we'll sit there and just hammer down on people on

doctrinal issues and they never talk about the presence of the living God? That's one of that. No, we're track. Hey, guys, let's take a quick break. We're tracking 100%. I brought that up in the overtime in the last podcast, but my point was even the translators have trouble translating it because they take. two words that seemingly mean two different things. You know, Atonement, you're kind of focusing on the love

and mercy God had for us to redeem us, and that propitiation is more like, and it keeps us from the wrath of God. But you got to remember that, that all goes together. I mean, God is holy. He has a lot of qualities. They're all good. And there's a lot of things that are. happening. That's why I said he calls us from something to something. And Colossians, remember when we studied Colossians, it said, so therefore you put off the old self and you put on the new self. Well, that happens when we're born again, but you're always going to be struggling with that, just as you move along. And you're always going to have in the back of your mind, you know, God's wrath is real. If you just,

decide to walk away from the presence of God, guess what? You're going to experience the wrath of God because there's nothing good that's going to happen from that existence. So I think we're tracking. I was just saying, I was kind of making a point that we ourselves struggle with wrapping our head around. Well, what are we going to highlight on the qualities of God? But I think you see that in different churches. And there's no doubt about it. It's just a fact. You go to some churches, and it's like what we would call hell, fire, and brimstone. You know what I mean? It's like, and it's like that's where they're focused, because I think we really struggle

with just surrendering to God and allowing his nature to be the controlling force of our life, because we just don't look at things like that. We tend to just focus on what we want to focus on based on however we see it instead of trying to wrap our head around his plan, you know. but I agree with you 100%. It's the same point we've made about miracles that he's making about this. Is it the building or is it the builder? Because people say that they'll pursue miracles their whole life.

And I'm like, well, even if he did a miracle in your life, would you rather have a great relationship with one who can do miracles or would you just rather sit in line and wait for a miracle? I'd rather be best friends with the person who can do miracles that is. any time. That's better. He's better than the actual miracle. It's the same theme that we keep running up against, whether we're going through the book of Matthew, or letter to the Galoshans, or the Hebrew letter here. It's the same theme that we humans tend to get off on something other than the person of Jesus. And I think it's worthy of note in Hebrews too, whether you,

whatever your translation is, whether it's atonement or whether it's propitiation. But this concept of atonement is a means to an end. And the end of it is Christ himself. It's being one with Christ. So when you say we're not just saved from something, we're saved to something, I love that because it's another way of saying that is, I'm not just, the point of the whole thing is not just me being safe for my sin. it's me being saved for my sin so that I can become one with God.

Exactly. No, we're on the same page, exactly. Well, I found another little introduction into another verse that deals with the promise. I got another one after y'all got through with that little dissertation. We'll give it to us because you got like 90 seconds. Therefore, chapter four, when he gets over there in the book of Hebrew, since the promise of entering his rest in lieu of what y'all said about the you know god's the ones that don't make it entering his rest still stands let us be careful then that none of you be found

to have fallen short of it for we also have had the gospel preached to us just as they did but the message they heard was of no value to them because here's what a lot of people, and you said it brilliantly, Jay, because though, it has no value because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Exactly. That leads me to, look, for everything we've said here today and leading us into overtime, this second Corinthians too, I mean, because you say, what is this point? What is our point today? What does this mean to us? Listen to this verse. see if it doesn't reflect what we've been saying. It says, thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal possession in Christ.

God is the one doing the leading here. And through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. Now, you want an eternal fragrance? Here it is. But we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are being perished. There's your, you can't have it both ways. some are in and some are out.

There's going to be wrath. There's going to be eternity of bliss with the creator of the universe. To the one we are the smell of death because it reminds them that they're going to die. Jesus' resurrection actually reminds us of our death. To the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to the task? Nobody. And unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for purpose.

on the contrary, in Christ, we speak before God with sincerity like men sent from God. So when you say who's equal to the task, I think that's the point. Jesus did it for us, and we get to participate in that. And he works out. It's a life of lived out faith. You believe. That's it. I mean, outside of Jesus, how can you pull this off?

That's it. Well, I said earlier this, somebody could come up with a prompt. could deliver on one of these promises, it would put the rest of them out of business. And the truth is, the verse you just read is somebody has come up with something. Exactly. They will deliver on the promise,

and it will put the whole bunch of amount of business. That's all for today. Let's move over to the behind the paywall conversation. If you guys want to jump into an overtime segment, we'd love to have you there. You can subscribe to the overtime segment, along with a lot of other things as well, at blazedv.

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