Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 524 | Jase Goes Full Robertson & What Exactly Is God's Faithfulness?

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Jase tells the story of a classic family dispute ... at the time of a funeral. Zach laughs about some of the more difficult Robertson personality traits. Phil says he has never followed a guest out to the car to continue the discussion. Al reminds Phil of the first time he met Gordon, Zach's dad. Phil points to the book of John and how our current position is such that there is no sin. And Jase explains how it's really about God's faithfulness and not ours. Sign up to watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So on the last podcast, we were talking about the funeral for Aunt Mary. I know that Lulu, our cousin, listens to the podcast. And Lulu, you know how much we love it. It's one of those deals where it happened fast, you know. And so it doesn't give you everything just kind of goes into the mode for the family, for her, like to prepare. You know, we've got to get the funeral going.

we got it. And so, you know, we're all like, we're in for whatever you need is for. You know, it was kind of our mindset. And, uh, but I got to do the funeral with Gordon. And it was great because, you know, it's family. So when it's your family and you're doing a funeral, you know, funerals for most people are just kind of, I mean, they're kind of dry. And, you know, some of times people know what to say. And look, I've done some before. I didn't know the people. It's hard. I mean, it's hard to, you're trying to be meaningful, biblical. But when it's your family. you can just kind of just tell it like it is.

You know, it's not too worried. Or at least I'm not. So I kind of got to do more of this stuff. What I like to do, tell stories. But then one of the things I said, which is true, and then Gordon got up and said, that's not true, because he spoke after me. I said, you know, whenever my uncle and aunt, Harold and Mary,

used to come down, it almost always wound up being a huge Bible discussion slash debate slash argument slash people yelling. Temper's flare. Temper's flare. But look, at the end of it, when everybody would leave, we still loved each other and we were family. And I made that point. You know, they would until the next appointed time.

And I remembered one particular time, Gordon and Jane, and I said this, I said, it was, and Zach, you weren't there because you were out of town. But I said, it would always be more intense when Gordon and Jan were a part of the argument. Yeah. discussion. And I remember a specific time when Gordon and Jan followed Harold and Mary to their car. So the debate didn't end in the living room. It literally went to, do you remember that, dad? It literally went to the car. Oh, I remember. I was there. I was a fly on the wall. So you can back me up on that. Because Gordon got up and said, oh, we didn't follow them in the car.

I was like, yes, you did. You would think, though, like here was me. I was just a kid when that happened. I mean, this happened. We're going to pay 34 years ago. Yeah, it was like 40 years ago. But I didn't, because in our family, I think what is unique is if I don't agree with you, because you would think I would pick Phil and Harold's side because I spend the most time. I mean, Gordon was kind of the outcast because he was from Florida. And he has a different person out.

Two strikes against him to start with him. Well, and let's face it, he married their little sister, which put you in another bad, way. But however, I was 100% with Gordon and Jan in the argument. Yeah. They, it was. I was too sometimes. Yeah. Well, in that case, in that specific argument, I don't remember my own details, but I was on their side. But since they were against my personal family, I just kept my mouth shut. So I was quietly. You were conflicted. You were morally conflicted. Well, I was like, I was like, you were so young, Jay. We didn't really have a voice at the table. I was, I live here. I mean, I can't. I I can't. I don't want to burn the bridges.

But so what happened was that came up because they came over to my house after the funeral. Uninvited, I believe. They just showed up. No. Now, that is how they were invited. Your wife invited. Well, you were invited and you no-showed. Oh, I did. Because we ate beans and rice and cornbread. Because Jay offered to cook me a steak. And I was like, okay. You chose a steak over bean.

And it sounds like I'm glad I wasn't there. So I chose why. No, and it just, we were talking, just sitting around, and we, this went on for hours. I can't wonder why they were down there so long. Oh, it was, went into the, I found him around. Like you, Jace, I've never followed anyone to the car. I'm right. No, no. No, well, I just, at some point where Gordon, you know, and Jam messed up,

is you realize that you and Harold are two of the most hard-headed individuals. At some point, they're not going to say, okay. you know, you're right. Well, I would put Jan in this, and a much, she had a hard head to tell you, my mom. Oh, she was right there. But even Gordon, that night, we argued, we were arguing, and I'm not sure what the argument was over. I can't remember either.

That's what's funny about. No, no, I'm talking about just the other night. We got to argue. And I think it's just because, I mean, he, Gordon just poured his, poured his heart out there at one point, because he misses, Jan, you're, you know, your, you're, you're, you're sister. I mean, she's, I don't know. How long has she, she? Has it been three or four years? It's been, uh, yeah, three years. Yeah, three years. So he became emotional and, and he was, and I think that all happened because he spoke at the funeral. Well, we had just had, yeah, and I was

realizing that, you know, and, but he was, he had a burrow in his saddle about people coming up to him. And I completely understand where he was coming from, about people coming from. About people coming up, you know, saying, well, she's in a better place and she's looking down at us right now. And you know all the things that people try to say to you. They're trying to be encouraging. But in a lot of it, it's just like, no, no, she's not drinking a cup of coffee and say, you know, he used some illustration. So where the argument developed, which is just typical Robertsons, I guess, is he said, I mean, he tried to read an illustration. from Revelation 4 and 5.

But I never would let him finish because I said, well, look, if you're starting a theological foundation on Revelation 4 and 5, I'm already suspect of this. And so he's like, well, are you going to let me give the argument? I said, well, just leave all five. Start with Revelation 4. Let's just do 4. He said, why don't you want to do 5?

I said, because he hadn't even gotten to his point. We spent one hour on detaching chapter five. Where to start? From the argument. Because I said, well, because I know five is quotes about he has made you to be a kingdom and the priest and serve. And I kept going to five. I said, those are references from the Old Testament. He's like, will you let me get my point in?

I was like, not if you're going to attach five to. two four he said he said well I'll just do four so this was an hour into the I said okay proceed and so then he got to chapter took an hour to start the argument and Misty was like I'm leaving I said no you're not leaving because I want your input on whatever he's fixing to say so he really did this thing about this picture of the throne room of God, which I said, well, are you going to, because Melissa, you know, his daughter, who I thought would be in support of him, who actually kind of was it. Yeah.

But, you know, she was a little nervous because she was like you were as a kid down here. Exactly. She was like, I got to go back with this guy. She was conflicted. She was conflicted too. Yeah. So he goes through the throne room of God about where in this illustration, you know, from the seven churches that he'd just written to.

and all of you are familiar with Revelation 4 or 5 kind of see it. But he made a point to where time ceases to exist here, and the people gathered around the throne room of God in this picture, chapter 4, they were singing, you know, praises forever and ever. And he said, I just feel like people try to get a picture of heaven. And he said, I just, I find comfort. knowing that you could actually sing together forever and ever, and you wouldn't know that it was forever and ever because time had stopped.

And it was kind of a beautiful view of where he views his wife, who has died three years ago, and not just like, you know, drinking a waiting room. Yeah, in a waiting room, drinking a cup of coffee, checking in on you every once a while, you know, smiling. He was like, I just think it's bigger. It's bigger than that. So I agreed with, you know, everything is said.

The general point is it. The general point was we're going to be in the presence of God, and it's going to be so amazing and so awesome. We don't have to use these little bumper sticker statements to try to make it real. And so I really agree. The argument was over just whether we were going to include Chapter 5. So I thought when Gordon said in the few, funeral, which I think is something that everybody was kind of shocked at who doesn't know our family,

when he said, you know, I was introduced to these Robertsons, and I thought, they, whatever he said, when he said, we had cold hearts, which we all laughed. He weren't even offended. No, I wasn't offended. But the people who don't know our family, they were offended. They're like, he just said this whole family. He was brought into a family of cold-hearted people. And I thought, oh, that's funny.

Because these people that I call family, they can be cold, hard. And he gave the illustration in his talk at this funeral. He said, I walked up. And so I'm meeting Jan's brothers for the first time. And they're standing in a circle talking about hunting. And he said, one of them who I won't name, but I know who it was. He was there. It was you, dad.

And he said, do you duck hunt? And Gordon said, no. And he said, then they just went back to talking again. Well, he said, Now, where are you from? No, he said, where are you from? He said, Florida. He went, yeah.

That is the definition. He was a marked man, but just didn't know it. Of non-compassion of not being friendly and being cold-hearted in your first encounter. And it's so the way we are. I mean, you know. But you know what's ironic about all of it now? One of the things that I said was, I said, you know, now looking back on it, since I'm, you know, 57 years old myself, the seeds of the unashamed podcast were in those

debates, discussions are, it's what we do. And we even have a dasher. We got Zach, we got us. Sometimes Gordon comes in. Missy and I and Gordon and Melissa, which was a weird for people because ever, you know, people chose to eat steak instead of beans and rice. It became a podcast. It was a four-hour podcast.

But look, we laughed. It would have been good for just. thinking those guys. We told stories, but I will say this. What came about throughout those three or four hours was a real passion for Jesus at the center of everything we do, which was actually encouraging. And I thought, I was glad I was a part of this. Well, it's funny you were talking about with the platitudes, too, which by the way, just my advice to the audience, I've said this before, whenever you think of one of those things, because someone said it to you, it's best if you just said, hey, we love you guys, and we're here for you. I mean, that's really the better way to do it. I

I realize we're trying to be encouraging, but I've learned through the years. If I just say that, people feel encouraged. I don't have to get into all this. What are they doing? Because Lulu is telling me that her husband, so she said to her husband, Kenny, she said, well, now Mom can watch all of Casey's games with that. You know, just, again, that was a platitude that was like the imagination was now Harold and Mary back together again.

Well, Kenny was like, can they really do that? Do you think they're really? So then she was like, well, no, I mean, I'm just saying that to be saying. But she was trying to, so it's not necessarily theological on what happens. I mean, we all know that whatever goes on once a person goes, that we don't get into the eternal life till we're resurrected. I do think you have to step back, because I don't think you were at the after, after, what do they call it?

It's not an after party. No, it's the after party after party. You do a, you eat lunch together. Yeah. Oh, did you hear the funeral? Well, did you hear the public service announcement on wearing the seatbelts? No, no, no, I was outside. We were getting ready to put the cask in, so I missed the PSA.

So what I was going to say is, look, you got to remember, too, in funerals that emotions are running high. You go through, but you're not aware of it. It's like you're on the outside looking in and it's family time. And there's a few tears, there were, you know, a few tears just because you're missing a part of your family. But we're not grieving like the rest of men who have no hope. I mean, I would say the overall vibe of it was joy. Encouragement. And we're telling, you know, stories.

Celebration. That was evident. Yeah. But it is, you know, people in that moment, emotions are raw. It's probably not the best time before you say the prayer for the mail to do a public service announcement on wearing, you know, seatbelts. But even though we agree with that, it's like I told in the last podcast in the overtime, I was not. a proponent for wearing seatbelts when the law was first came out. I just, which seems dumb now, but in that moment, no, well, when I had a wreck and almost died and get wrapped around, all of a sudden, I was like, you know, I guess I'll wear my seatbelt, which was going to be my point,

the way the Robertsons are very rarely does somebody say in an argument, oh, you're right. I'm completely wrong. What we do is we wait a month. And then it's your idea. And then make it our own idea. Amen. Is that true, Zach? Oh, that is true.

Hang on. Hang on. Let's take a break. Now, there's a lot of truth in that one. The overarching teaching of the book of Hebrews is since the children, that's humanity, have flesh and blood, he, Jesus, he too shed in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is the devil,

and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. So it's pretty good going in where he says, this is not the end. You will continue on. I wanted to mention before we totally get back into Hebrews 10, which we're about to do, but I did want to mention another reason Gordon was here, other than do the funeral,

was he's here to work on your new, new book, Dad, which there's a fourth book in this series, for those of you that have been getting all the dad's books. It started with Theft of America's Soul, which was the idea of kind of laying out the problems that we see. And it was Jesus' politics. In other words, if Jesus were in charge of our country, what would it look like? Then it was uncanceled, which is the third one that we talked about, which you talked about

sins being canceled at the cross. This last one is a book about the kingdom, really. But to me, it's the ultimate wrap of these four books, because it goes straight. straight into this is what kingdom life looks like. It's interesting that you bring the up, bring that up, because one of the arguments we got into, because he started telling me about the book idea

that you're collaborating on. And so I was like, he started giving me some of the ideas. Well, I had an idea that was not his. So I said, here's what you need to do. Well,

that was a one-hour argument. But Gordon, who is more soft-hearted than we are in reality, because he actually said that's a good idea. Yeah. So I thought, well, I need to get some kind of credit. Which we would have never said. In your book at this point.

And it did take an hour for me to explain because he was testing my thesis. He was testing your thesis. Yeah, he was. Which, to be fair, we get comments all the time. I read them about me and Jace are trying to outdo each other. I might know. This is how we process. I mean, like, it's in the debate.

It's in the, what you, the thing is, if you're not really sure about it, you throw it out there and you try to defend it with everything that you have. And if it sticks and you're able to defend it at the end, then you're like, okay, this might be real. But if it's not, then you wait a month and you make it your own idea, whatever the other person said. That's the process. I may have a little to do in the conversation, but 99% of the time, I don't get into, like, heavy arguing. And I just say, well, you used to. Yeah, you used to. You caused a lot of this problem.

Now you've mellowed. I'm glad Zach brought that up, though, because some people have mentioned that to me in real life. They're like, boy, you and Zach, y'all are always trying to want up each other. I was like, do what? I was like, no, Zach's probably my closest theological discussion backboard that I have. We do this for hours just on the phone. Whether it's your show, you're doing.

doing or whatever. And we actually are way more in line than anybody else that I discussed. I think that most of our audience now has figured it out because in the early days of unashamed, we were getting tons of emails, right? Zach, like, Jay's quit interrupting, Phil, you're so rude and you're not even letting him finish. The guest comes on. You all need to be quiet. But they realize this is kind of what we do. And we're not offended by each other. If you don't interrupt people, there would only be one speaker the whole time. That's true. That is true. That is a good point. I feel so bad for our guests because they come in.

And look, we edit this out when they edit because I'll have to stop and say, look, unless you interrupt. You know, I said that to Ben Carson. Yeah, that's right. I said, stop the tape. Ben, unless you interrupt, you will never say a word. And you're the guest. So he's like, got you. Well, then, look, then he did fine.

Oh, he was like, he jumped. He's coming back. He said he wants to come back. Oh, he's coming. But once he knew that we're not going to get our feelings hurt, you know, we're just, we can't shut up. It's a problem. Well, it's not a problem. It's just what we do. It's the method to the madness. Exactly. That's how we do it. Yeah, that's right. But we're not going to get our feelings hurt was my point. And even Gordon's saying that we're cold-hearted, you would think somebody's going to get their feelings hurt. But I thought, boy, he hit that one on the head. Well, I'm ready for you that we pretty well weighed this little bit. I'd get on Hebrew chapter 10 and see what God said about all this.

That's what he's turning on. Time to move in. Phil's boy. Let's move on. All right. So we're back to Hebrews chapter 10. And at the end of the last podcast, I made a connection that, and I want to go back there because that gets us back in the content.

We talked mostly about the end of chapter 10, the podcast, because we started out talking about judgment. because of Jason's infatuation. You saw the same signs. I just took it further. You did. So in verse 18 of chapter 10, because remember, there's a big transition from 18 to the rest of it, because we're now into all the practical applications of everything we've been studying up to this point,

that Jesus is better, right? So now he's going to say at the end of verse 18, after he's quoted Jeremiah, their sins and lawless acts, I will remember no more. And remember, that was written hundreds of years before this was. So already God knew what he was going to do. And then in verse 18, he says, and where these sins have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

And he's not talking about Jesus's sacrifice because it's eternal. He's talking about the sacrifices of all these bulls and goats and the system. Because in any drop down in verse 26, if we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left. what was he talking about? He's talking about what he said earlier. He's talking about that if you try to go under an old system,

when you have a perfect sacrifice, it takes away all your sins, that is a deliberate act away from Jesus. That's what he's talking about. He's not talking about this one day, I did something wrong, one day I didn't. And we made that connection. I'm shamelessly promoting the after hours,

the bonus. The overtime. The overtime that we did on the last podcast, because Zach and I made a, I think, a really good, connection between Hebrews 6 about people not coming back because they're trampling over Christ when they try to put this system ahead of Jesus or in Hebrews 10 not being open to God's eternal forgiveness through Jesus because it is hard we we talked about

it's hard and then making that connection with 2nd Peter where Peter was like you want to be adding to your faith all these qualities and don't forget that you've been cleansed from your past sin that you're a hundred percent forgiven by God's grace through that blood in Jesus because when you do forget it and we made reference to the Lord's supper the same word in Hebrews 103 about what those sacrifices did an annual reminder and then Jesus using that same Greek word saying And when you take this cup and this bread, you do this in remembrance of me because you need this reminder that you are 100% forgiven because of my grace and love. And then you made the point. He Jesus, not only did he say that in Matthew, but then Paul said it again in 1st, Corinthians 11, then saying we're going to do this until he comes back.

Exactly. So he made it Luke 22. Luke 22 is where. But then, then Zach took it further in the overtime. Because when you miss that focus on Jesus and His grace and that daily reminder, it's like, and then he gets to Second Peter too, well, then all these false prophets come out of this. Because when you're trying to obtain that without Jesus, all of a sudden he gives this illustration in the inn. It's like a dog returning to its vomit as far as your sinful behavior because you're steeped in the shame.

of your sin, of your own sin. There's no other way to get out from under this. I mean, we all have that problem. I thought about that when you brought up Lulu, our cousin, Leslie, we call her Lulu. I mean, look, I know she's sinful just because we're all sinful. But I tell her every time I see her, you're one of my favorite people on the planet. She has just a wonderful heart for God. He does.

But, you know, I have to remind myself, I'm sure she has to deal with that. that also, but every time I look at her, I'm like, she's the best we got to offer. Because she just has something that I know you get from the grace of God. That's right. You see that in her life. I know she's close to Jesus because of the qualities that comes out of that. And it's just a living example of that. I don't immediately say, oh, she's just different, you know, because, I mean, I look,

she kind of comes from, you know, this typical Robertson hard-headed. family aspect, and you're like, well, how did she, why is she so kind and loving? And I know where that comes from. It's a relationship with the grace of God and Jesus in a real way. Yeah, exactly right. So, and think about this, this thought of not turning to the sacrifice of Jesus. And Zach, you mentioned this in the last podcast, when we read it later, how insulting that is to God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

because you're saying we'd rather go under something that we know won't work rather than embrace something that will work because God said it. I mean, that's exactly what they were doing. Yeah, because it says they're insulting the spirit of grace and they're trampling underfoot the blood of the covenant that sanctified them. But if you go back and read Hebrews 10, 10, listen to what the Hebrew writer says about this sanctification thing. He says, by this, let me see, by this, we will have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ Jesus once for all.

So going back to the point about, like, this is all hinging and contingent on the grace of God that is sufficient. So it would be a mistake to read Hebrews 1026 and onward and think, oh, this is an end, you're out, in, you're out. Right. I've done too many sins. I'm out. You're misreading this if that's how you're reading it. And the reason why we know that is because when God sanctifies you, he does it once for all. It's not like, oh, I lost this because I sin too much.

That's not what this is about. This is, he's talking about our hearts and the condition of our heart and rooting the condition of our heart in the supremacy of the finished work of Christ. And the reason why we say it's finished is because it is. It's done. We're not accomplishing it. Hang on, hang on, hang on dad,

before you read that. Let's take a break. John makes the point, Dash, it's, and we tend to forget a lot that our position is such

that there is no sin. You know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. We forget that. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. The people in Hebrew said,

but if we go back, he says, you're forgetting your position. In Jesus is no sin. No sin. If you're in Jesus, there's no sin there. We have a hard time saying,

yeah, but I made a mistake the other day. It's not that we won't make mistakes, but it's not a lifestyle that when you see someone, all you see is sin coming out of. you say there's no change of heart there that that's what john's said in jesus is no sin it's not that you won't make mistakes he covers that in chapter one the blood's there there is no sin in

jesus it's not i'm in i'm out i'm in i'm out because of your sins but if you're in jesus people will see you and they will say huh that's a good man that's a good woman's what lulu you see lulu you say she's she understands her position where she is in jesus well that's why he made all those references about these sacrifices that they were doing, these rituals, couldn't cleanse their conscience. Correct. Couldn't cleanse it from a guilty conscience. I read a story somewhere, I don't know if it's true, but I just found it interesting

that the author of these Sherlock Holmes novels, he was a big practical joker, and he sent a letter to 12 of his friends, and he did this as a practical joke. and the letter said flee at once all is discovered and the reason this was a bad joke is that all 12 of those people left the country and they were all upright citizens but his is the where I read this story was in reference to explaining Hebrews 9 and 10 it's because we all have a guilty conscience about something yeah there was something in there that they thought oh no get the heck out of it so whether it was true or not was is was irrelevant but when I read that I thought we're all in that position well you could somebody could come to us and say

you've been found out you know and you're like oh no I remember that time you know 21 years ago I did something and you just put time in between that but we all have guilty consciences and which is the point I've been making the whole time. It is, it is hard to just give that to God and to think back through faith on a cross and say, okay, yeah, that happened as fact, and I don't have to worry about it. Because, I mean, if I got that letter, I would say, you know what, and Jesus redeemed me of that, whatever this is, even though I may have the consequences of it and the guilt of it, I've been cleansed from it. Even that bank. Everyone who sins breaks the law. Hebrews, they got it all figured,

they're rigged up, temple worshiping, blood of bulls and goat. And whoever sins is lawlessness. But you know he came to take away your sins, and in him there's no sin. That's the difference. In other words, when you see God's people, it will not be characterized by lawlessness. Nope.

Yeah. It will not be there. It'll be love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. You say, against such things, there is no law. That's the difference right there. So they didn't get his joke is what you're saying. Yeah, he was just kidding. But everybody, because of guilty conscience, whatever, and it could have been 12 separate things, and it probably was.

But they were like, hey, I respect this guy. That's what happens when there's no Jesus. Well, right. Leave, run, because that's what we do. I mean, it is hard because of what we've committed. I mean, it's. I've done that with my kids. I say, are you going to tell me?

Or do I got to, I'm going to give you an opportunity to confess it. And they're like, what, what? Who told you? I'm like, well, I found that. Josh, if we ever have a three-day, a three-day meeting, and you come over here, we go over there and we work on the duck hole a little bit, getting ready for duck season, you're there. I can watch you for three days.

And somebody says, what about that guy? I said, he's a godly man. You say, why would you arrive at that conclusion? Watch it? I don't, I wouldn't say, now if I said, that guy is up to no good, he is, I mean, he's a piece of work. You know, he does all kinds of vile. You'd see that. Or you could see you, a child of God, and I'm looking at it.

There is a difference between people who sin as a pattern and a lot of it, and you try to get along with them and run with them and the people of God. There's a big difference. Yeah, but Zach's right, you, because I've said that, I mean, I remember read one time when he was a team. teenager. I was something that happened. His teacher had called. I sat him down. I was like, it'll be better off for you right now just to tell me the truth. Well, he went off on this what him and Cole had done. I had no idea. That was way worse. And you're showing up. Your son is about it. Well, I'm thinking, okay, that's terrible, and we'll address that later. We're going to take them one hour.

of time. But to your point, it shows you the guilty conscience because when confronting, that's what he was most upset about, what him and his brother had done that we didn't know about and we needed to get it out. But I think that's what we, you know, when we start getting on the other side of this about confessing our sins, it's easier to confess your sins. I don't know about easier. It makes more sense.

when you realize that he's forgiven you and he loves you. Oh, that's for you. When you don't want to confess is when you think somehow another, it's the cover-up. And I think that's the way we go about. You are correct. So a very, let's take a break. A very comical illustration of what you just said, Jase, was in the movie, O'Brother, we're out there when Delmar and Pete happened upon a baptism.

And they go down there and they get baptized. And so he comes out and he says, the preacher said my sins were washed away. He said, even that bank I robbed in Yazoo City. And he said, I thought you said, you didn't rob that bank. Well, I lied, and I'm forgiven of that, too. And so, which is comical, but it really shows you because their lives didn't really change. They're still bank robbers.

And so the idea is, that's how people, if you view Christianity like that, it's going to be a really tough wall. I think in a subtle way, though, the producers are making fun. of people who think that that's actually a reality. That's right. No doubt about it. I really think. Well, if I could be forgiven, I'd say it all I want to it. I'll be forgiven.

Well, now we got Roman 6. We got a chapter for that too, and that's Romans chapter 6. There you go. I love, Jason, you use the word cover-up because I think this is interesting to use that term, because if you are engaging in sinful behavior, there has to be a cover-up. It just has to be. That is correct. And what we want to do is we want to cover it up with our fig leaves going back to Genesis chapter three.

That's what humans do. We start constructing cover to cover up the nakedness, the sin, the depravity. But what God says is, no, I'm going to remove your artificial coverings. And you've got to let me cover it up through the blood of my sons. So the book of Hebrews, what he's establishing here is, look, your cover up is not going to work. But if you will rest under my cover-up through Jesus, then you can go to God with a good conscience because it's not based on what you do. It's based on what I did. So that's the confidence.

The cleaning of the conscience is not because we look at ourselves and say, oh, we're actually good people now. It's not that. It's the pledge of the good conscience towards God. Peter says it saves you by the resurrection. It's connected with the resurrection of Jesus and our baptism when we're connected with the death barrel of resurrection. It's our identity in him. I think that's what 22 is saying of chapter 10 when he said so because he just said it started 19 well he says therefore 19 brothers since we have confidence to enter the most holy place by the blood of Jesus which is what I've been talking about the last three podcast I mean our sins is the opposite of confidence we're guilty we're shameful we don't see how some God that we can't see with our eyes you know can forgive us how could you possibly have confidence jays if you didn't have your sins forgiven exactly so by the blood he tells you right

there and he tells you in verse 19 yeah by what we have the confidence by the blood of jesus by a new and living way open for us through the curtain that is his body that's powerful yes and i mean he here's god becoming a man so he could shed a blood for my sin 2 000 years later i'm at the curtain it used to be in between the holy place and the most holy place and not all that is yeah and i mean Gordon brought that up in his comments about a funeral when he said, you know, the totality of people where I think he said, what did he say, $180 billion? Or was it? It was $118 billion have walked on the earth. Yeah. According to somebody that.

So knowing that this one act of God becoming a person with a body shedding his blood covered the sins of the $118 billion past, present, and future. That's a pretty incredible thought. And here's the explanation. The reason the Son of God appeared, you know, back to the beginning. Where are you at? This is in 1st John chapter. Okay. Well, I'm going to finish this Hebrews.

The reason the Son of God appeared, Jace, was to destroy the devil's work. No one who was born to guard. They don't continue to see. God's seed remains in him. He's been born again. There's a difference between those and the. Which is what? Which is a good point.

Because there's two works that we know of is death. Hebrews 2 and temptation. Yep. I mean, that's the way. Yeah. Well, but he, you know, God is not tempting us. The evil intent. We, the sin is our own doing.

Right. He presents the result. If you could destroy the power of God in a man or a woman, if you could get rid of that, you'd have it. That's what God did. So let me finish reading this. So 21, and since we have a great. priest over the house of God, well, here's the really practical applications. Let us draw near to

God because we have confidence now in the blood with a sincere heart. And that's what I was trying to depict. It's in your heart and your heart is what's most important to you. And that's what's real to you. So if Jesus's grace in his resurrection is the most important and you're sincere about it, It's real. It shows in full assurance of faith, having our heart sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience. And that's what I said. That is the top five hardest things to get past is a guilty conscience. And you're not getting past it without the blood of Jesus.

Correct. And having our bodies wash with pure water. I mean, I'm not real sure what that's in reference to. I mean, a lot of people reference that to what you did while ago is that in the First Peter 321. It's not necessarily taking the removal of dirt from the body, you know, what First Peter 3 says. But I tend to think it's just, you know, maybe Jesus, when he said, living water will flow within you by this. He meant the Holy Spirit. You know, that's in John 7.

Right. So, because I think that's all working in connection with your surrender and the spirit working in. you and the purity of God's grace. That goes along with what John the Apostles said. He has God's seed in him. Well, I just focus on the word pure because, you know, you look at water around Louisiana. You're not pure about that. Yeah.

You know, but so I'm saying that's God, to your point about 1st Peter 3, Zach. It saves you by the resurrection of Christ. It saves you by the grace of Jesus. let us hold unswarks. There's the, there's a reference in Ephesians 5 that says, Husbands Love Your Wives, as Christ loved the church, who gave himself up for her to make her holy cleansing her by the washing with water through the word. So there's that kind of similar language.

And also Paul and Titus 326, he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Same language. Yeah. But it's from the inside out kind of thing. Correct. So verse 23, let us hold unswervingly. What is your say, Zach? You have a different translation.

What's your? 1023. 1023. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering. Yeah, without wavering. I think that's a better rendition. So let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess for he who promised is faithful, which I think is a real key phrase.

And by the way, this is about God's faithfulness, not ours because we're, we just can't ever get it right. But he's faithful in this. Let's take our last break. I think, Jay, I say, hope he's talking about there has to be the resurrection, too, because that's the, as a saved son and daughter of God, that's the last thing we're looking for. I agree. And then like he did in chapter three, you know, when he's talking about today, if you hear his voice, you know, let us encourage one another. He gets to encourage him one another in this because he says 24 and let us consider how we may spur one. one another on toward loving good deeds.

Let us not give up meeting together and some of the habit of doing. But let us encourage one another all the more as you see the day approaching. Yeah. So and to that point, so that idea about let us not give up meeting together is in the context of that entire passage that that's how we gain encouragement. We were with other people. We spur one another off. It helps you live a better life.

It's not a legalistic, you know, back to the, you know, you got to show up at the temple to do the sacrifice. So, but you see what people have done. So if you, if you came to Hebrews 10, I've heard this done, especially when I was younger. And I never, I don't think I ever did it myself. I hope I didn't. If I did, I repent. That you would come in and preach a sermon and start in verse 25 of Hebrews 10 and go through verse 31.

No, I said that earlier. It just infuriates me. Because if you went in and you just took that out of Hebrews, all the context we've been talking about about what Hebrews is about. and then you just preach that sermon about you people that, you know, miss on Wednesday night, here's a sermon for you. It just is so insulting because it's just missed it. It missed the whole point of what the focus is about. There's no motivation.

Motivation matters to God. And I mean, that's why he sent Jesus. Exactly. I mean, it's not what he was saying. He was saying. And look, and I'm, I preach. I meet with people. I talk to people all the time.

I'm pro-meeting together, whatever, however you want to do that. So it's not you're against that. But the idea to somehow attach that that is this situation where the Hebrews were in and we're doing is totally missing the context, which by the way, just as a side note, because a lot of you guys that are listening are new to Bible study, it's important to read an entire letter and book and get the context of it before you start applying it to situations because this is the application. That's why whatever you're mad about or whatever you're going through, if your answer is alienation. in marriage, in meeting with the brothers in response to God, you're always going down the wrong road. He always goes, he always gets to a point. So let us, you know, let's spur one another on.

Let's love each other. Let's encourage one another. Let's not give up meeting together. So, because you realize what had happened here. People were upset. They were not focused on Jesus. And they're like, what were they saying? Well, we're just leaving.

Well, but they're leaving because they don't want to focus on Jesus. They want to go back to this old system that they were raised in in their heritage, you know. I mean, call it whatever, Jewish nationalism or whatever. But then they weren't, if you alienate yourself, then there's no bridge back, which is kind of what he got into in chapter 6, you know. So, I mean, if you leave Jesus and you leave his people, what are you got? Yeah. And again, we've said this over and over.

Contextually, this was a group of people that at some point, the idea of Jesus mattered to them. But they've gone back. They've left that. And that's why Zach, to your point, after he does that whole text, and you read this on the last podcast, in verse 32, he's like, remember those earlier days? He's like, remember how it was when you understood? And you, you know, you thought Jesus was a big deal. And then in verse 35, he says, don't throw away your confidence. what does that mean?

That means that you're going under a system that can't help you. And then verse 39, he says, but we are not of those who shrink back. What does that mean? That means going away from Jesus and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are safe, which sounds pretty confident to me. I love that parallel, as he says,

the opposite of shrinking back is having faith. And we don't look at it that way. Just think about what that means. No, we don't. And I thought, I think we often, too, we approach our faith in God and the Christian walk as a list of things that we do in order to gain favor with him. And then we read the warnings of things not to do so that he doesn't get mad at us. But I think we're missing the broader point.

That's why I loved Alice Willer's stuff about renovation of the heart, that what's at stake here is what is your heart desire? And I think it speaks to it when he references this Old Testament passage here in Habaca. I think it's from Habaca, let's see here, two, four, and five when he says, for yet in a very little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay, but my righteous one shall live by faith. And this is right before he talks about the shrinking back passage. He says, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him. So what you see here in the not shrinking back in the pursuit by faith, what you see is a connection with the living God that's fairly intimate and fulfilling and full of joy or is what Phil says very often the peace of mind that's the rarest of commodities.

That's what's being offered here, the clean conscience. And I think that's what people are looking for, particularly in 2022 because we all got that guilty conscience. I do think it's ironic, though, is one of the ways he used to try to get them to come back to Jesus. And that 32, he was like, well, remember those early days when you had received the light, you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. And sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and you were persecuted. At other times, you stood side by side with those that are mistreated. You sympathize with those in prison and joy. accepted the confiscation of your property because you knew that you,

yourselves, are better and lasting possessions. This goes against every bit of motivation, because I'm thinking, that's probably why they left. But he was saying like, I'm fighting Jesus and losing everything. He's like, remember that? Let's get back to that. Well, now you see why people leave. Yeah.

Because they don't want to do that. It's a lot easier just to go find some animal and sacrifice it. I'm good here. Don't run up on any troubles or persecution by you there. You know, and I mean, I do think that that's kind of what gets off in our Christianity is we want to be comfortable. And we want to make up the rules. I mean, think about it. Jason, we did an episode on The Little Duck Show about HOAs.

And I've had the opportunity to see that in action in Alabama sometimes that people love to be put in a position where they can make up rules to try to tell you what to do. And Seinfeld did a great thing about it, about where his parents were down in a Boko-R-Ton. He said, don't you understand these people have lived their whole lives to retire, come down here and make rules to enforce? And he was right. But that's just what you're talking about here. The idea is, is that not only you're going under an old system, but then if you get to rise in the system, like the teachers of the law and all the people Jesus was dealing with, then you get to make up the rules for everybody else. Well, yeah.

But I'm saying you don't get this kind of persecution by just going into a building once a week and doing your own thing. Right. This is living without. You are correct. Jesus is real out in the real world. Every day. You do that. You go to a building once a week and go home and that's it.

You say, nobody's going to bother you. They don't bother you. They already have you. So you're going to eventually get to 13 where he's like, Jesus suffered outside the city gate. We go to him. You go out in the world and we're, and we're all familiar with that because we're persecuted. pretty mightily. It reminded me, Jason, when I was young and just started preaching,

a little, a small group of people, and they were there. And when they'd leave, they would leave like a sweater and their Bible on their seats. We'd be right there when they came back next week. And I thought, hmm, that doesn't seem good to me. Yeah, you may need that Bible. It may need that throughout the week when you're living your life. All right, we're out of time. If you want to follow us to overtime, I got a really good verse about that shrinking back.

One of my favorite in the Bible. I want to read that in the overtime and explore it a little bit. You can go to blazTV.com slash Unashamed if you want to follow us over there and sign up. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else,

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