Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 525 | Phil Unleashes Green New Deal Mockery & Jase Recalls Coming Face-to-Face with Murderers

Episode Date: August 7, 2022

Jase talks about how the good times can provide a dangerous opportunity you may not expect! Phil lets loose a joke about the Green New Deal. Zach discusses the idea of general revelation and man's temptation to worship creation rather than the creator. Jase and Zach tell their stories about working in prison ministries and how it felt to work directly with murderers. And Zach talks about how atheists turn to spiritual things when they attempt to disprove God's existence. Sign up to watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So it was one of the podcasts. I don't remember if it was the last one, the one before, we talked about, you know, Dad doesn't get out much, but he went up to Little Rock and did a book signing at a, like a waterfowl convention. So I think he was in, Dad, I think you were in the real tree booth. But so he said something. I don't think that made it on the air, but I've been juggling about it ever since. You said, you know, for the first time my life, I felt famous.

And that was exactly what I said, good night. I think I'm famous. Where are they? I was like that. And it was that whole Duck Dynasty thing, right? There's that. No, well, and I think what it was, Dave, it was what they were saying, right? I mean, it's because what's happened is there's been a change from Duck Dynasty fans,

which is more kind of about the show and what's up to and questions like, you know, what's happened with the unashamed audience. There's a depth now because of what we're doing and talking about. And so now the comments and questions are about life change, about marriages saved, about, you know, turning my life. Duck hunting, how to duck hunt, how to call ducks was in there. Yeah, because we talk about that on here.

I think it's a point of what we did. No, I was really surprised. I mean, at the length of the line that was, formed. I just looked and I said, man, I was alive. I just walked out of the curtains in the back, just came, got off the street and went in there and then we were in the back there just sitting on some chairs there behind the curtains. Then we just walked out because the old the guy McConnell Clay, Clay said, you're not going to believe what's waiting on you. I said, I said, what's that? I said, what's that? So I just

I didn't even know what he's talking about. I just sitting there thinking, well, go out and sit in a booth, you know, a few people browsed by. But no, this was a mass of humanity. Yeah. Yeah, and Clay was generous enough to fly you up there in his plane. He and Martin are hunting buddies, but he's also a member of our church, and he's one of our live stream guys.

He's a tremendous. Good, solid brother. Do you know him, Zach? Did you know, Clay? Yeah. When you were here? Yeah, we've actually talked quite a bit recently because when we were wrap the movie. We had all the movie set stuff that you got to house it somewhere in the

case you need to do reshoots. And so he is letting us keep our stuff in one of his facilities. So yeah, I've been talking to Clay quite a bit lately. Good dude. Yeah, his family, I mean, they do a lot of stuff, but their main thing is they own some prisons. In Louisiana, you have private entities that will build prisons. And, then the state, you know, works with them on, you know, people, because we have a lot of incarceration, unfortunately, in our state. And so, but obviously, just like everything else, it's the prisons are run much better in a private sector than they are, you know, if the state is in charge of it or the government.

So it's a much better system in play. I've spoken at some of his prisons, you know. Yeah, all of us have, yeah. All of us have, I think. Yeah, we have. They're not going to go out of business. No. but you know you've you've heard the term captive audience jays i mean you know when you go there

course that's what dad first time went to angola dad he opens up his bible and he starts reading from galatians the whole world is a prisoner of sin i'll never forget it and then he goes and then he said and you boys get this and you just went right into it and i was there i mean it was quieter there too i told them the truth i said you're never going to drive down that road out there that you came in on ever i said you were you had the guys yeah we were talking to the lifers yeah yeah the ones i spoke to for a couple years they were in and out they were like pre-sentencing they told me it was being beamed back on death row back there yeah they were it was going to their television and i just reminded them that you can be under lock and key but you could

still be free yeah that's a pretty there not a preach yeah i went to angola when i ran for congress I did the whole tour, spent about half a day down there. That place is, I was shocked. You know, you're standing there at one point. I'm standing there. They built their own church building there, you know. They've got several in there. Several.

They've got a seminary program, I think, through, what's the Baptist Seminary in New Orleans? It's the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Yeah. So they have a satellite there. I donated my library, all of my books and commentaries and stuff to the prison because obviously they can't be online, which is where most people. people study now. So I still like my old books, but I thought, you know, they'll do a lot better with these guys here. But what they've started doing is when people get transferred,

the ones who get transferred to lesser facilities in Angola, they become missionaries and they start churches in these other prisons. It's really incredible. It's an amazing thing. And it gives everybody in the prison system. I mean, it really does. It gives them the only hope that they're ever going to get. Yeah. Because like you said, most of them are going to spend their lives there. That's right. But, but they do a lot of good work. And it's really amazing because so much of what we saw was good, you start to think, well, yeah, this is a great place.

One of the guys, the main guy over the guards, he was like, well, Phil, there's a lot of bad people here. You just, they're not out here participating. So he's like, he had to remind us that, you know, there's some people that don't get to get out and come to church meetings. But it is incredible what they've done there. Warden Kane, I think he's gone now. But, you know, there's a book.

Yeah, there's second generation of. But this guy, this new guy, Zach, is, he's great, too. He's a believer. And, you know, he's kept things going that Burroughs started. They've been doing this 25 years. The same thing's happened in San Quentin. You know, Bob Goff does a lot of work in San Quentin. So I've got to, you know, talk with some of the folks over there.

And it's pretty interesting to see how God moves in those places. I mean, when I was there, I was standing around in a particular area, but about 30 or 40 inmates. And there were no guards. and I'm there with one of the other wardens who was a female, and I said, you know, what are all these people in here for? And she said, murder. And I was like, where are the guards?

And she said, oh, you're safe. And what's weird is, is I felt safe. And the conversations I had with the inmates, I mean, I was like, man, it's incredible to see the redemptive work that's going on in Angola. I mean, it is. I left that place like, man, God is good. he is big you know that's pretty incredible i had a similar experience but i didn't feel safe i mean i when i was when i went in because i turned around you know they had all the doors you're

you're going well i had the guards with me the whole way yeah like i had an escort but when we got to the last one we were where we do the little one-hour bible study well the door opened i walked in because he said go ahead and then it started closing he's on the other side and then it's on the other side I said, you're not coming? He said, I ain't going in there. I thought, let me do the math in my head. Once they attacked me, are they going to have? Because it was taken forever.

I'd gone through about four of those doors. And I thought, no, I'm pretty well just out here. It's me. God. And no weapons. So, and there was a couple times where I thought, because it escalated. Because, you know, you got to be blunt. I mean, it's a tough, it's a tough conversation with these guys.

I mean, it got, oh, I got cussed out, threatened, and, you know, I had one guy that I thought, he's fixed to hurt me. I mean, he just, but they're just battling, you know, their demons inside of them and as you go along. But, yeah, it definitely wasn't for the faint. I mean, I'm glad I did it just because I, I don't think I would have known how, hard somebody's heart can get and how, you know, how people can lie so convincingly and even shed tears and just be lying through their teeth. I mean, it kind of toughen me up a little bit with in the real world. Now, look, there were some positive things, too, but you just saw that in that ministry. Right. Oh, yeah. Well, we talked about it on a recent podcast about what was when we were talking about when dad, we were talking about you and your life and me as well.

and Zach, that you, sometimes it takes getting to a bad place with who you are to then realize that, you know what, this is, this ain't working. And so you can imagine if you wind up a situation like that where you've messed up to the point where you're locked away. If I don't know then, what I know now, I'd have saved myself a lot of trouble. Right. Absolutely. Well, it caused all the problem for me.

I've shared this before when I did that is, you know, I wouldn't let them open. pine on theology because that's what they wanted to do at first it's like they just thought we're going come in here and talk about the Bible and I'm like no whatever your theology was this was the end of the road for it I mean we're so you need to reboot yeah shut up and listen well you know it just doesn't go it's a tough but that's my was my old go I mean I try to you know introduce them to Jesus, I mean, because there's a big difference. I mean, we're fixed to get into Hebrews 11 here. I mean, there's a big difference in knowing about God and knowing God and knowing,

knowing biblical, going to church and being a part of the church, you know, the body of Christ. I mean, and that's what I saw there. They knew a lot of Bible. Yeah. But, well, you got down into their heart and whether, you know, God is real in their life, obviously, they would come to the same conclusion. Now there have been a million miles away from. God.

I mean, but they had to reach that point, you know, on their own. It's hard to debunk years of just abandonment. Religion. Paul stood. Well, and it's funny, as you talk about that, I approached my teaching when I used to teach more Bible, because I was Bill Smith trained me. And so Bill was the same way as me.

A lot of guys will teach a Bible class. They'll just kind of throw out some scripture and get a discussion going. and then we'll chew the fat with it. But my thinking was I've spent the week or more prepared and digging into this text. So I'm not here to chew the fat. I'm here to lay it out here what God is self-made in this text. So my teaching approach was always that way. I mean, I like discussion in a small group, you know, where people are able to share things.

But when it comes to teaching or preaching, it's not a group discussion for me. It's a whole lot less important of what the scripture means to me. what's more important is what does the scripture mean and I think we've been a lot of what's it to me it means yeah I'm like well what it doesn't matter what it means to me what is what's he trying to say here what am I what what is the message here I think that's how people get off though even today I mean there's this there seems to be just this infatuation or whatever you want to call it with it's like trying to make every put you in every situation in the Bible it's like you're looking, trying to insert yourself in the modern day, and you're a million miles away

from, I guess, the way, you know, we were told, exegetical preaching, where you're trying to figure out what, what does this mean? Not, not what does this mean to me and how can I insert myself in here to where it's like, you know, God can help me be a better person or, you know, whatever that train of thought is, because it's like almost like he's some, it's a self-help group that God's going to assist me and making me better. I remember one time I went to a little men's group and, you know, I was just, somebody had asked me to come and so they started and they read a passage. I think it was maybe in Psalms or maybe one of the Psalms.

And then that's what they did. They went to, well, this means this to me. So I listened for about, you know, 10 minutes and I was like, so this is all interesting, but everything I've heard here, that's not at all what this is talking about. just so you know. And then I just went into teaching what this passage was because it was a prophetic text. And it was really interesting because all of a sudden,

everybody just starts listening because the word and the message are powerful, but my wrong thought about what all this is really doesn't matter a lot in the big scheme of that. I just remember I listened as much as I could. And then I thought, okay, we got to talk. Well, I remember I was at some event and I, you know, a lot of times I'll open it up to Q and A. And most of them are, you know, hey, on that episode, did you really, you know, do whatever. It was like 10 years ago.

I don't even remember that happening on the Duck Show. But I remember one time I got a question, I guess some famous preacher somewhere, I don't remember who it was, but they said there was some controversy because he had made some statement about, because I had to get him to repeat it about three times before I tried to answer it. But it was something about, because evidently it just caused a firestorm on social media. But he had like tweeted or put on Facebook, he put, God doesn't change you.

When you come to Christ, God doesn't change you. He sees you as you were or something like that. And they were asking me about that. I was like, now do what? But, and I really, I don't know what I said. in response because off the top of my head, I wasn't sure what he was talking about. But when I did go and look it up,

and that's basically what it was saying, because it was what I was trying to share earlier. It was like somehow another, you know, I mean, forget all the passages where our old self was crucified. We're a new creation. I mean, if I would have known what he was talking about, I would have said, that's terrible. I mean, yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

But I just thought, why would a preacher do? Because you know they know these verses. But then that's why it kind of hit me that just a lot of people, they want to love themselves in a way that we're like, God is assisting me and loving myself. And I just think that's a dangerous road to go down. Well, let's take a break. Well, Zach, I mean, doesn't that really speak to kind of the whole

sort of undercurrent of our culture now. It's also self-absorbed and my pronouns and me. And you've got to recognize me for who I, and I've got a crazy, I'm good around on my hands and knees like a dog. It's become nonsensical. But it's so self-centered. It's so self-absorbed, you know, when you see these things.

And we all just, we're almost numb to it now. It's so insane. But I think that's kind of the whole culture. That's kind of what they're doing. So maybe even some people in the religious world are trying to buy into that. Oh, I think they are. You know, I just think it's a problem. And, you know, when you read Romans 1 through 3, it's, I mean, he made it pretty clear.

There's not, no one's good. No one's good. And, you know, when he said a righteousness from God is revealed in that pivotal verse in 320, I mean, that, we're, we're desperate. We're doomed. Apart from law. This one, he's saying in that Roman three, apart from law. He said, righteousness has come apart from law.

That's meaning you're not going to keep the statutes and make it. Yeah. You remember when Paul in, I think in Chapter 70s, I know nothing good lives in me. That's right. Which is, you're right. What a rich. It's probably the greatest attribute of the book of Romans is that. That he clearly says there's no way to get around doing this without God and without Jesus.

I mean, you're never. So you're right. It just kind of takes that out of it. No, I think that's a big problem. And I do think it applies to what we're talking about in Hebrews. How you just, you know, if there's one thing saying that you're, your focus on Jesus, You know, there's another thing knowing, you know, when you think back to that conversation he had with Philip and Thomas and when they're like, you know, where are you going and how are we going to know the way and show us the Father? And then we'll believe, you know, all these questions that we naturally as self-absorbed humans ask, just tell me what I need to know.

Give me a map. What are the requirements? I mean, you think about all these conversations Jesus had in the Gospels, it was, they were asking questions. that we would ask. I mean, what are the most important things that I have to do? That's right. Tell me what I got to do.

Give me the top two and then give me a map. Yeah. And let's meet up. You're basically asking, what's the bare minimum? Because I want to contain this whole thing. I want to control it. I want my own,

I want to submit to you, but I want my own autonomy as well. And you know what the word autonomy means? If you break it down, it's a loneliness. It's a loneliness. A law unto yourself. That's what the word autonomy is.

And so when we come to God in such a way where we're the center of the story, where it's not going to work. You know, you mentioned it. I've heard it said like this, Chase, that we treat God as like the cosmic bellhop, and we ring the bell and he's ready to help us. But we are forgetting that we're talking about the sovereign king in the universe. You know, we're talking about the sustainer of all things. That's why the book of Hebrews, like when it starts this whole book off,

he sets it up with doubling down and tripling down on the supremacy of Christ. And then he makes his case. But, I mean, we're starting with the supremacy of Christ that in Christ, all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form. That's the idea that's central. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I agree. Yeah.

The first five statements, the first five verses in chapter 11 of Hebrews, pretty well covers the whole thing. You know, I read them. I mean, I'm sure of what you hope for, certain of what you don't see. This is what the handships was commended for. He's fixed to talk about how they live by faith. But it's a powerful text, you know. So we talk, it is. It's probably about one of my favorite chapters in the whole Bible.

But it's one of those things, the timing of it, because we've been studying this up to this point. And so now he's going to call on, because remember, this whole thing has been about this Jewish audience and this, you know, don't turn your back on Jesus. Don't go back under the old system. These ancients didn't have near the information we have. Right. We have more information than they had. What I love about it is his, to me, and I give the big point before we start breaking down the text, but he's saying that, look, even throughout all the stuff, and the system wouldn't save you, and the blood wouldn't, a bulls and goats wouldn't save you, and the sacrifices and the priesthood and all the stuff we've been talking about, Jesus is greater. He comes back and says,

all these great people that you have heard about your whole lives and have been handed down through generations, these were men and women of faith under any system. That's right. They believed in God. And I think that's what makes it so powerful to me. Yeah. I think the question, I'll let me. I'll say the question that I think we could ask, though, is what is faith? And the reason why I love Hebrews 11, and I preached out of this particular verse, I don't know how many times. In fact, the first time I preached at White's Ferry, I taught a class of White's Ferry Road. I was 26 years old. And I was introducing apologetics, which means that that's a defense of the Christian faith.

And I'll never forget when I got done with the first class. I was giving evidences for the claims of the Bible. And this lady came up to me afterwards, and she, like, stopped me and like ran me down. I was like, hey, hey, Zach, Zach, Zach, come here. She said, you got to stop teaching this. I said, why? She said, you are destroying the very foundation of what faith is. And I was like, what are you talking about?

She said, faith is believing in something that you have no reason to believe it's true. And that's what she told me. And I was like, that's not faith. That's stupidity. You know, and we've got to argue. I'm like, even though I agree with you, but that was, Well, that was a harsh way to say. Well, I may have said it a little nicer.

But he was 26 years. I was 26. You know how Kakiya was. But I love how the Hebrew writer defines faith. And y'all's translation I like better than mine on this text. But it says, now faith is the assurance of things. It's assurance of things that are hoped for, the conviction of things unseen. I think y'all might say the substance.

Does your say substance? No. The King James, I think, says, is the sub-sufficient. Is the substance of things hope for and the, what is that? Certain. No, I know the NIV, but he was asking the substance and the evidence of things not seen. Yeah, that's what it says. Substance of what you hope for and the evidence of things not seen.

What is your saying? Mine says faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. I mean, look, I think probably a combination of them all. Yeah, because they're all great words. Yeah, but I mean, look, my biggest thing about this, because I've taught this as well hundreds of times, but I have more clarity because we've just spent the past month going through this book in detail here in the podcast and at home,

you know, the night before, just in my personal reading. And you know what stuck out to me? Because I thought, I was like you, Zach. I thought, how do you define faith? Because I used to say this was the definition of faith, but I think it's the definition of faith in this context of where he's brought us to. And what I mean by that is, because you're like, well, how can you be sure of what you hope for? Or what is the substance of what you hope for?

I like that word better. because, you know, I'm going to make the application. And what is the evidence of things not seen? I mean, how do you see that? And so it kind of hit me that leading up to this, obviously he's been focused on Jesus as the new and better and perfect way and how he communicates. But one thing I also noticed that shouldn't be underestimated

is when you starts talking about the substance and assurance and certainty of things. that you can't see and how do we know God's real and how we know God's true to your point. Well, just look in the previous chapter. I'll highlight two verses when like in 1035. He said, don't throw away your confidence. It'll be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. So he's referencing this something being promised.

He said it the same thing. in verse 23 of 10, let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess for he who promised is faithful. And going back to Hebrew 6,

there's more references than this, but you remember when it said it's impossible for God to lie. And so when you think about what he's trying to say as far as you've not seen this, and you trusting and you having faith and you being sure and you being certain, you're banking on the promises of God.

And you see the evidence of his former promises. Yeah. Because he's fixed to go through all this stuff. So I don't think it starts with a – because a lot of people, you know, when they define faith, I'm not throwing them under the bus, but I'm just throwing them on the bus. They say it all starts. Hey,

Hey on, let's take a break. They say it all starts with thinking or, or reasoning or, no, it starts with God's promises that you find those. You start looking at those. Then the thinking can start and the reasoning and the,

you know, wading through or getting to know, but it's based on his promises. And there are many. I mean, just think how many. That's why when I said he focused on Jesus, well,

that famous verse, when he said, no matter how many promises God has made, they are yes in Christ. But what sealed the deal for me is I watched the people who claimed, you know, I come out of the world, so I hadn't been running with religious people. So the first thing I noticed, and even in their children, they were very good. They were very good people. Well, I'd been running with bad people. When I saw good people, I said, there's something to this.

I was a gigantic opening for me. I ran into people who actually, you know, when Jesus said, you'll know them by their love for one another, that's a powerful thing. That's the way you see him. Well, I think it's important. Because there has to be a reason why right now. Look at the ones who are God-fearing and they love each other. and they love their neighbor in this world right now.

And then look at the rest of them, the ones who do not love God and who do not love their neighbor. Just watch them. I'm like, nope. This right here helps my faith when I see others who is living this out. They're not mean and they're not cursing people. And you say, I think that's in the category of evidence of things not seen.

That's what I'd say. Because you see people who have trusted in the promises of God. That's correct. through Jesus. I haven't seen Jesus. I don't even know him yet, but I'm looking at these people, and I'm thinking. But don't you think that's what? I believe they're helping win me over by the way they behave.

Isn't that what Jesus meant when he told disciples, they'll know you by your love for one another? I mean, that's how they'll see. That's an evidence. He was the evidence of their life. Watch their life, and the way they respond. I said, they don't mean. They're not trying to slick you.

I said, you know, they're good. I told Ms. Kay, by the way, when I started. first after I repented, I said, well, I need to get around Christian people, you know. So I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. Somebody said, well, won't you work up there into this little school there starting down the parking like a White's Ferry Road? It's a school there. So I said, yeah.

So the first introduction to Jesus was their children. And after about a week of, you know, I'm the physical education teacher. After about a week of that, the opening week. I told Ms. Kay, I said, these are the best kids I've ever seen in my life. I said, these are really good kids. They mind me. They're not hollering at me. They participate.

You had taught and coached a little bit in public school as well. Oh, I came out of public schools, you know, and then I ran for a while, you know, beer joints and all that. But then I finally saw the people of God's children. That's where it started. And I said, how could you get children to behave as well as these do? I was surprised. Hadn't seen it.

You know, I'd live it in a world where, you know, I'm looking at the kids, the way they behave. But that was my first introduction to Jesus. I saw him and them. But what you know what I find interesting about that, Dad, is that because I was there. But it didn't take long for you, because as a fairly new Christian, to begin conversations with the handful of kids, mostly high school kids that were there that didn't come out of good situations.

That is correct. Paul Stevens, who we've had on the podcast, Steve Adam. So these kids didn't, they weren't. A couple of elders were in the making, but they were 15 when I thought. And so you shared Jesus with them to tell them why these other ones were different. Yep. And it changed their lives. That's right.

I mean, which again is to the whole point of faith, which, you know, Jay's you were talking about that in Hebrews 10, 23. I like in the King James Version, it says, let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering. And I like that word profession because that's just what we're talking about. In other words, it's faith that is seen and then impacts. And that's what happens without wavering, which I think is good. Yeah, Paul, he had a ponytail, but it reached his behind. It was all the way. He had a hairdo. Well, he saw him coming. It's always comical to me when you start. And he was a future elder, and I didn't know it at the time. Do what? It's always funny to me when you start critiquing the way someone looks.

Well, I mean, I thought that's quite the hairdo. Guess what he was? Let's see if we can convert him. No, dad didn't look like this, Jay. I know. Right then, dad was like, you know, GQ. But I'm saying 10 years later, Paul should have came back and said, well, you got to look at that time you talked about my hairdo.

Yeah. Yeah, be careful. That's right. You never know. I think the thing. on Hebrews 11 that's that you got to keep in mind is that faith is knowable and you know the way I grew up being taught was I've got to the preacher and with doubts or whatever and and that they would always that's that's where faith comes in I'm like well that doesn't make any sense to me

and I think that's a flaw in a looking at faith is very knowable and I love how jace described it because I've I've used the same kind of language that if we're going to talk about faith we have to Faith comes, faith is a response to revelation. And revelation comes from God. And what God is ultimately revealing is himself, his triune self, which always leads to life. So faith is when God gives you a revelation, when God speaks to you and you say, I believe you're telling me the truth. And when you do that, that leads to life. The opposite of faith is sin, which is calling God a liar and saying, God, I don't believe you.

And that always leads to death. So I think that the first talk, you're going to talk about faith, you've got to root it. And first, where does it? Faith comes from hearing the word, Romans 10. Well, if I'm going to hear the word, somebody has to speak the word, right? Who's going to speak the word? God speaks the word. I was dealing with children who God loves.

And I was looking without realizing it that I was also looking at who was training them, good solid fathers, solid mothers, I was looking at the results of, without realizing it, their training had come all the way down to this. I mean, I would say the most impressive thing that I ran into as a young Christian was the behavior of the saints. It was a powerful thing. Which says a lot about it. Now I'm looking at them the same little children now that I saw there in the eighth, seventh grade.

They're our leaders in their church. They're leaders in the church. They're 60, 70 years old. Now they got grandkids. Let's take another break. But don't y'all think that that's, Sack, you talked about that with Revelation. Wasn't that Paul's point in Romans 1, when even before the revelation of his word, Jesus coming to the earth, he says by what he's made, the revelation of creation should be enough for us to say, there's got to be something bigger than little old. us because then he goes into that and described the behavior of people that go that because of

God's revelation of creation yeah because the same group not only was I looking at their children next thing you know I'm I'm meeting with their mothers and fathers and I'm you know Dane Jennings his dad and all that Tommy Pauley the guy of the faith bill Smith I was looking at the ones who trained them you see what I'm saying their children and then it all began to just kind of fold, fold on itself. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I was sure of what I had hoped for, and I was certain of what I didn't see. I said, I'm seeing the evidence of something real powerful here.

I've never seen kids act like this good. Well, that's why, you know, in Colossians, he said the mystery of the gospel is Christ in you. I mean, you see Christ and other people, but then it leads you down the road. You know, you start getting in the word and connecting the dots. Just think about it. If I had gone in among God's people and there's nothing, this Christian thing, you know, this Bible, get that out of my faith. Just think if they had been misbehaving and cursing me and not obeying instruction. Just think of what I'd have thought about the whole thing.

That's how critical that was. You see what I'm saying, Al? I mean, just think if they had have been just mean as junkyard dogs and custody of care of them, like the youth of America who haven't heard about God. about 60 to 70 years. Right. The ones who were wondering why, what's going on out there, this right here will work. I saw it with my own eyes.

It helped convert me. Yeah. Well, even though, you know, when I mentioned that Romans 1, he kind of, when he got to verse 3, he says, by faith, we understand that the universe was formed at God's command. And I think it's interesting that Jesus is the word, you know, when you go to John 1, and said he was with God in the beginning. It's like your three questions.

Where did this come from? You go back to Genesis and you got the Holy Spirit. I mean, the first verse in the Bible, Holy Spirit's hovering over the waters, you know, and God said. So, and then he says, let us make man in our image. So you see this triune aspect of God working together, you know, in the beginning.

But the point is what I brought up about the promises, when God says something, because in any relationship, you have to have trust and truth. I mean, if you tell your wife a bunch of lies when you're dating, you know, one's probably enough, but let's just say several. I'm pretty sure that at some point in that marriage, it's going to get real bumpy. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like, well, I thought you said, I mean, if you can't, if you don't know if someone's telling the truth, how can we continue? I mean, good or bad, just let me know where we're at. And so I think it comes back to that.

It's impossible for God to lie. Because you've got to remember all these people are fixed to read about and even the paragraph before in chapter 10. It's hard to trust in God, especially in difficult circumstances. I mean, when you go back to Moses and they're wandering around in a desert or whatever, and let's just trust God. And they're like, look at you. We have nothing. We're out in the desert.

We're lost. I mean, it's been years. I mean, it's just hard to trust and believe. And I think that transitions to our lives here. I mean, it's actually harder to trust God when everything, when you got, you know, a little money and things are going good. but that so that has its challenges because you don't see a need. But then it's also difficult when you're looking around saying, well, nothing is going, there's no God.

Look, I can't, I don't have enough money to eat and I, you know, everything's falling apart or around me. So, I mean, knowing that when God says something and you put your faith and trust in that, I mean, to me that is the bedrock of our faith. We don't have to see. I mean, it's just like this chair. I'm having faith that this chair is going to hold me up, but I didn't stop and think about it. Well, the atheists say there was nothing.

There was nothing when it comes to this. We're about the cosmos. So we understand that the universe was formed. They say, here's what happened. There was nothing. And then there was an explosion. And they've got nothing exploding. So we can see it and be a part of it.

This says by faith, we understand that the universe, worse, there was that nothing, there was God there. But the reason you atheists are having trouble with is, is that so that what is seen, they looking at the matter, the cosmos, it's a big one, was not made out of what was visible. God was there, but that's what brought it all in. They're just leaving out the catalyst of how the matter got there. Right.

Well, it came from somewhere, and someone says, Well, they say, the atheist says, well, nothing made it. And we're like, well, we're saying God made it. We're not that far off. But they're in a box because they say something can't come from. First law. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. When you read that, Bill, a lot of highly educated people just turned it off.

Because they're like, well, wait a minute, you're saying that something invisible, made something visible? No, I didn't say that. That's what it says. Yeah. And it says it's impossible for him to lie. Yeah. But you know what I find incredible in verse two? He says in the NIV.

This is what the ancients were commended for. The KJV says elders. In other words, what's even more incredible to me. They didn't have near the information. No. And like they believed it just again, what they looked up and saw. But here's what's interesting. All these years later, thousands of years later,

everything we see only makes it more believable. I mean, I mentioned this recently. Let's take our last break. I mentioned this recently because I like to look out at these universe pictures. And so we had the Hubble telescope. It went up in 1990, orbits the Earth. It's looking out. We're seeing them.

We thought we were seeing it a long way. Amazing things. Well, now in 2021, they sent up the James Webb telescope, but they send this one to the sun. So it's orbiting the sun. It took a while to get there. It took about a month to get there. It went a million miles, and it's 100 times more powerful than the Hubble.

So now we're starting to get these images in, and you're literally looking at it. And every time I see one of these images or these pictures come in, I was like, it's the incredible, awesome ability of God. When you see that as a person of, I don't know how you look at that and say, wow, boy, we were so lucky. That's that come from nothing. You see it in the reverse, too, the smaller that we're able to see things that we're getting down to the subatomic particles and quantum mechanics.

And you're like, whoa, this is way more complex on both ends of the spectrum than anything we could ever fathom. On the bigness of it all and on the minute detail of how small it is. But it's obviously God is speaking. I love that you brought up Romans 1 too, because I think that's a key passage on when we're talking about faith. I think we should read it. I think we should read. Because 120 says the same thing, Hebrews 113 says. It says, for since the creation of the world, God's, in the world.

God's invisible qualities. There it is again, Dad. I mean, I think you have to, we've read this so much that you've got to lose the power of what this says, actually. It's like, do what now? It says, since the creation of the world, his invisible qualities, God's invisible qualities, and I'll go back and read the two he references here, but it says, have been clearly seen. well how do you see an invisible quality it's kind of like hebrews 111 you're when you first read it you're like oh yeah that makes sense and you're like oh wait what faith is being certain of what

i don't see that pretty much flies in the face of everything that i am and how i roll which is the opposite you know we were talking about how we're so self-absorbed earlier yeah i mean that's how we roll is we look around and say yeah i don't believe it unless i see it i mean i've said that a hundred times yep you did what well where's it at you got a picture now all right i'm out i don't believe you i don't believe you but he when he said those two qualities it says you can see his eternal power and divine nature what does your say uh zach on the romans one 20 Same thing. Eternal power and divine nature. I mean, I'm not sure I have the mental capacity to describe what those two things are, but...

Well, you know why you don't? Because we have no concept of eternity except by faith because we're finite. And two, we're not divine because we're created men. So that's why we have a hard time. That's why the only way you can accept this is by faith that he's there because we have no relation point. personally, which is why our reference point is, yeah, our reference point is a temporal spatial realm, right, meaning we dwell in space and time.

So when we try to fathom a being who created space and time, we're only going to get so far. And your telescope example is prime evidence of that. However big we thought the universe was, it's bigger. And so, you know, when we think about God's eternal power,

the reason why we can see it in creation, because no matter how far we can see, it's bigger. And that's God revealing his eternal infinite bigness of himself through what's been made so that men are without excuse. But yeah, what do we do? We take the obvious, this is sin. We take the obvious revelation from God. In this case, this is called general revelation that God generally reveals himself through what has been made. And we say, we don't believe you. And so we reject that. And then look at the futility and the stupidity of what we do. we start to worship the things that were created. We start to worship the creation itself instead of the one who created it,

which is obvious that somebody made this. I mean, Aristotle ran up against this. The new Green Deal is just the old Green Deal. Cut that. That is the cut we're going to use for social media right there. What I was going to say, though, is Romans 1 when he went on to say he just said what you said, Zach, in 25 when he said they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshipped and served created things rather than the creator.

But I want to reiterate when it says the evidence of things not seen as part of our definition for faith in Hebrews 111, well, that's more evidence. I mean, you brought up one when you said, well, you see people's lives changed, and not that you could be wrong about that. I mean, because, you know, we've seen people this all of a sudden. I mean, people are pretty crafty, speaking of our prison ministries. But generally. Not that many little children could lie that big.

I was the same way. I mean, the first time I went to a bigger church setting, I thought, oh, there's a lot of high character. That's what I was thinking. I put them into, these are high character people. So I do think that's evidence. But I think the evidence here, this is. eternal power that you see in creation and his divine nature and knowing his word, trusting his work, because he's the one that brought that up when he said the universe was formed at God's

command. And I think of the very reason that we have a Bible here that the Bible has survived throughout history and has been the number one seller for however long. I think it does give you a believable explanation. I think it's an evidence of, even though I didn't see the guys writing this, the more I read it, I just know they didn't make it up. It's the same way that you see that in people. This was no Dumbo who wrote this. Well, it's what you see in people. It's something you don't really see, but you see. You know that there's something happened to these people. They've been transformed in some way. And you just, there's too many of them. And I feel like the same thing when I read the word, because, I mean, I've shared this many times before.

when I first started reading the Bible, I was thinking in my feudal mind that I was going to debunk this because I wanted to go do whatever. I was like, I'm not going to some old folk tale. Somebody found some letters somewhere and we're going to follow that. That was my initial thinking. You come a long way, Jay. Well, I know. But as I got to reading it, it just, you know, it blew my mind up. And I thought it just came alive.

It, because it revealed a person. Well, there's a higher truth that's in this. I think the philosophers have debated this forever, but it's this idea that really the existence of God, his eternal power and his divine nature. I mean, the Bible does say here, Paul says it's been clearly seen and understood. So on some level, everybody receives this, and on some level, everybody gets it at some point. And he's thinking, well, how is that? What does that even mean? I mean, think about this.

If I'm going to prove that God doesn't exist, if I'm going to do that, I'm going to have to borrow from the things of God to prove that he doesn't exist, meaning that if God doesn't exist, then all that exists is the material physical world. There's enough evidence for one to believe. There's enough evidence. I agree. Yeah, that's the point. That's his point. You can't escape it. even rational faculties and the ability to reason,

those are not physical things, right? So when I use words like, I've determined that God's not real. Well, hold on, you determine. What does that even mean? Now you're in a spiritual word. If all these texts, when you're talking about determining things.

You're believing a lie. That's why I'm saying, I mean, look, me and your dad, Zach, the other night, we kind of got in a little debate because he was going through all these evidences of, you know, about creation. And I was like, yeah, 100% agree. But because he was.

saying he was going to do a child i think we were talking about the book idea and y'all and i was like yeah but god chose you know the message of jesus changed people lives that's all good and what what started the debate or the argument is i said but you're believing their lie you're you're trying to convince them of something that i've read in romans one hebrews three oh they know he made it they've just set that aside and followed a lie because it he's made it clear to them if we're going to believe this, which it was the first time your dad went, uh, yeah, I see your point. Because I said, you're not going to out debate them. You're not going to out to argue. That's what people, they've been trying this for a hundred years. You know, they'll have a

debate. Is the evidence, you know, let's go talk about that. Hey, they know he made it. They've just said that. He made it clear. If you're trusting what this says, but what happens is, just like all of us, when we wander away from God, you start believing lies. And then it becomes, you know, your conscience starts getting seared. And next thing you know, you don't even know if you're a man, a woman, where you're at. You're in transition. Yeah, you're like, I don't know what the heck's going on here. You're like, well, you believed a lie.

And it has consumed you. And now you're on a bridge to nowhere. That's exactly right. We're on a bridge that has run out of time. Boy, that was quick. Before we move in to O.T., I do want to read a short quote that I think is appropriate for this discussion. This is from G.K. Chesterton. He said, what is wrong with our civilization can be said with one word. And by the way, the cure to this is the West faith. It can be solved with one word.

Unreality. We are in no danger. We are in no danger either from the vices or the virtues of Vikings. we are in danger of forgetting all facts, good and bad, in a haze of high-minded phraseology. And I think what he's saying there is like, we're at a place now where we're living in unreality. Nothing makes sense. And what faith is, it's believing in the revelation of God. God is revealing the ultimate reality, which is himself.

And that's what we are to fold up underneath. And faith is responding to that with affirmations saying, I believe you, God, that you have my best interest at heart. So I thought that's pretty well. I put the end on before we moving the O-T. Sure of what you hope for and certain of what you don't see. Yeah. Let's unpack that a little more in our overtime.

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