Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 531 | Jase Reveals the Opposite of Doubt & Phil Sums Up What Technology Does to the Human Heart

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Jase explains how we have entered God's grace because of our faith, which does not come from ourselves but is a gift from God! Larry Bowles joins Zach and discusses how faith is not the absence of sin. Phil shares his view of how technology has probably inflicted more pain and trouble upon the human heart than it has helped. And Jase explains the ability to approach the throne of God with confidence. Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Let me get this right. Three trucks of people. Yep. They come down and they do what? They say we got to. We have the gate code because we're going to extend some kind of language I'd never heard of before. But there was some kind of apparatus that they were saying it'll reach down to the end of where you live. So they're reaching out into the deep recesses of the forests.

Did you hear the word fiber optic? Something like that. Was that ever mentioned? Something like that. That would be a blessing for all of us. So what are the chances? So what are the chances that these three trucks of individuals, possibly ghost hunters, alien, whatever, show up at the same time that when I get back for my little three-day vacation,

nothing works at my house. Well, you got to remember when they first told me they've got a device now that when you can see the person you're talking to on it. Yeah, that's a phone. Phone. It just came out about 2012. I remember when I all started to be about 10 people on a party line and 10 of you would ring.

You hello, everybody, well, I wave, but hang up. Well, I'm on the telephone, some old woman. That's just as chaotic. So they put about eight on one thing, but then you could talk to them. But they said, there's a time coming. They've got this thing that they can see you when they talk to you. I said, never, it'll never happen.

Impossible. I didn't even think it was possible. They didn't want to embrace faith because you were talking to a person that you couldn't see. And they said that's too sketchy. It hadn't been over maybe 20 years that. television came. I remember when television became a reality, there were no, there were no televisions. And then they come along and if you had a tall antenna, you put one in your house.

No, I remember. We all gathered up, you know, in the neighborhood and it would just snow because it wasn't any programs on it yet. Yeah. But it was a mighty throne showed up. We were looking at the TV. They said, you can watch movies on a box. And I said, get out of here, no way.

You know what that means, don't you? Live and learn, I guess. But I never was pulled into that. I was saying that you're getting old. If you can remember that. Dad, you did realize that we were, you and then your family, us, we were all about 10 plus years behind what everybody else was already doing. That's exactly right.

I don't know if you knew that. But like all the times these things were happening. And when it happened for you and for us, other people had been doing it for years. I mean, I would go to town and they had cable TV. I was like, this is amazing. You don't have to go outside to get a better reception. So we were always about 10 years behind the curb, which I guess is perfect for you now, because that's pretty much where you live.

No, we did that. We did that to make sure everybody lived through the product, to make sure it didn't, like, melt your brain. Exactly. You were using society as a test case. Yeah, exactly. If you wanted to bring it in. I think we were the last people in America to own a microwave oven, you know.

And it just, now, how do you get by with that one? Yeah, I think Phil's opposed to those, aren't you? Are you? Well. You know. I didn't mean to open up that kind of words. I'm just saying. It feels like that's not cooking.

I'm looking at the whole thing, big picture. No, I mean, yeah, that's just. I don't know where we view. veered off. Well, we started by saying that our culture. Jace thinks he has had an alien involvement at his own. I didn't know. Did you ever hear the, hear the tone?

Did it make a better? Yeah, did it make a better people? Any of that kind of? Did all this high text make it make us a better people? Close encounters. Close encounters at the Jace kind. Well, I felt like I'm being ganged up on it. I showed up back in my house and TV wouldn't work.

He said no signal. Got on a computer. It was like nothing. You've lost connection. I got my phone. Nothing. There's no. I don't know.

I just don't know what happened here in the last three days. But evidently something in the, what world does that call? Digital world. Digital world. Digital world. That's pretty good, Dad. Yeah. I was trying to connect it to faith, but I guess that's not going to work.

Because you can't see it. Right. you trust that it's going to function properly. And now we've been studying Hebrew so much. Everything I do revolves around this. Because I get back from the little vacation, the family moved on because they're moving my daughter into college. Everything, you know, we're trying to be empty nesters here.

But I had to come back so I could be a part of this. So usually if I lose my bag, I don't care if the airline, it's just closed. but I have my golf gloves. This is, these are, and they're like, you know, I got the, oh, fitted for the clubs. You need them this long and this. I just got them. Wow. So I get off the plane, I go down there, Al's done it many times.

You wait 30 minutes, and then I looked up, and no bag. Everybody else grabbed theirs and left until it's just you. And it's just the thing is going around, and you're like, that's a lonely, that's a lonely, Only place there. That's depressing. So I go up there and a person came out and I said, there's one more bag. And she said, there are no bags. She said, you need to go to the ticket counter up there.

And you got your little tag. Yep. So I go to the ticket counter. Well, there was nobody there. So I sat there. First I was standing. There was no seat. So then I just sat up against the wall.

And 30 minutes into it, A security person came and said, what are you doing? I said, I'm looking for my bag. I got on a plane. I had a bag, no bag. He said, well, you can't sit here. So I thought, this is just crazy. So as I was leaving, someone I saw open the door and I thought, oh, there's a person.

So I went over there. Yeah, no bag. So they gave me a number. And they said, we don't know where it is. But I will call you. This person said, I'll call you. gave my phone number, they said, I will call you tonight when that plane, the next plane comes, one way or another.

So I said, what time you think it'll be about 8 o'clock? You said, where am I going with this story? Well, 8 o'clock came and went. Guess what? No call. And so I called my wife this morning. I'm like, look, I got a problem. I still don't have my back.

She said, well, you can track it or whatever. I was like, forget all that. I had a person say that they were going to call me. and I put all my hope and trust in that. That was a promise because I was thinking about Hebrews 11. I was like, she made a promise. I'm going to call you one way or another, and the call never came. Yeah.

I gave her the number. It never happened. And I thought, okay, I get it now. You would have to have a person that it was impossible to lie to really put your trust in it. Here's what's amazing to be. Yeah. these writings that we're looking at. I mean, this high-tech digital stuff,

I can, I think, pretty safely say, since I was in high school. For the last, how long, when did it just take hold and the internet? The tech world? I mean, what is that? How long has it been in 40, 50 years? I'm trying to figure out how writing is 30 years, Phil.

A thousand years old, at least. still make perfect sense in a high-tech world because this was written in an extremely low-tech world. Right. You read these texts and you're like, how in the world could we get this kind of writing that far in advance? I mean, this stuff was written where they didn't even hardly have invented the wheel. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And as you say that, all of this goes directly to the human, heart. Yeah. And we think, well, we develop all of our technology and we send satellites into space and we extend fiber optic cables and it has no effect on how our heart perceives things. Well, it does. You are correct. You are correct. And so when those things fail us, we're right back exactly where these people were. And what have we really got? It looks like we've solid in this world. And their culture has the worldwide has digressed instead of been helped with all the with all this.

Really? We're not we're not evolving. We're devolving in so many ways because we're taking our eyes more and more away from the source of life. And that's Christ. So when we're putting our trust and our hopes and other things. Wouldn't it be fair to say that technology in and of itself. I mean, really all it does is either enhances or dilutes what is reality and truth. It's not a reality itself.

I think people try to make it that. But it always falls flat when that happens. We've talked about this forward to social media. It's just for a lot of people, it's a front. It's a fake front. There's a person behind there that's usually hurting, usually got issues, usually stuff going on that then lashes out through this fake prism. But really, all it's doing is diluting or enhancing truth.

I think to dad's point, that's why the truth, absolute truth, is always going to be, I mean, it's timeless. No matter what the enhancement or dilution is, it's still true. That's true. You think about, we have the technology now to, we could take an image of somebody, and then we can use deep fake, and we can create a video that looks like it's them, but it's not actually them. And so you start thinking about, like, the way technology is advancing. there's a we're going to be sitting back in 10 years from now what is truth right you know we we can't tell if this is true if this is not true because of the advancements in technology but but the bedrock of truth is always going to remain you know so i think that um one of the areas that when we think about uh technology being like neutral or it's really not um you know i love how you put it out it's kind of wealth you know if you have a lot of money that's going to exacerbate what's already there if you're a generous person you're a giving person you get a lot of money guess what you're going to do you do. You're going to give away more money. If you're stingy and you're corrupt, then you're going to be more corrupt. And I think what technology does is for the average individual is it

exacerbates what's already there. And so whatever spiritual integrity that you have or that you don't have or moral depravity that you have, it's just going to exacerbate it. So you see it happening with the advancement of technology and social media with a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of good preaching that I've heard and was able to overcome a lot of theological error because stuff I saw in Facebook, but there's also a pornography and there's also all the other competing influences. So it really depends on how you use it is what makes it dangerous or helpful. Right. Yeah, I'm being called now.

This is our culture. If you've never watched Duck Dynasty and are not familiar with its breakout star and religiously unhinged grand patriarchal, Phil Robertson will bless you. They're saying, What are you reading, Phil? I'm not hinged, I'm unhinged. Unhinged.

So I looked up the definition of hinged, unhinged, to dislodge or detach, to throw the mind into confusion, this is what I'm being charged of, or upset. How are you getting axed? to what people are saying about you if you don't own any technology. Because his daddy, that guy that about over here on your right,

your cousin. Your nephew? Your cousin. His daddy sent me this and said, you're currently, by the way you operate, are being called unhand. Well, I could have told you that. Next time just asked me. You didn't need the internet for that.

And they thought no coming to a knowledge of that. They thought the powers to be out there in the underworld, the world of satanic idiots. They said, boy, we can bring him down. We'll just start telling him he's unhinged. Yeah. But I'm just sharing that with you. I'll just show you. You know, it's a badge upon.

You know, that's exactly what they said about Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. When he was not part of the religious establishment. And so when you're not, when you're not following. on the status quo or whatever denominational line you're supposed to be aligned with and you just start talking Jesus, you're a loose canon is another way of saying that. You're like Jesus walking into the synagogue and you're flipping tables. And at that point, Jesus was unhinged in the eyes of

the Sadducees and the Pharisees for sure. They just pull out of their little pocket, the pocket phone. And showed me that. That's where Das got that from. Yeah, so let's take a break. No, and obviously we're doing some research for the next book. Let me have said that. We just got right into it today. We have Zach from North Carolina.

I'm at the Southern Larrett. Our podcast contributor, Larry Bowles, is in the house today. So Larry's good to have you hear with you. Thank you. So before we get to Hebrews, which we'll get to back in Hebrews 11, I wanted to, speaking of technology, So yesterday, I'm down here, but I'm able to plug into our live stream where I'm at at White's Ferry Road to hear Larry's sermon. And Jay, so obviously you didn't have anything working.

You hadn't had a chance to hear that, but you need to. It was a stem winder. A stem winder. I became unhinged. A stem winder. What is a stem winder? It was something. But I wanted, you made a statement a couple of times later, and I want to mention it.

Okay. Because I want you to. I knew there would be a reckoning. Even as I was up there speaking, I knew there would be. Is this difficult where you go to preach and then you go and get critique for 45 minutes? Yeah. And then Al's like, oh, yeah, come on the podcast. We're going to talk about this.

So Larry said the first time he preached to why he's figured out. He got no nervous to sit down. I was sitting on the front row and I had a notebook out. And I was in because he was thinking, oh, boy, here we go. The guy that asked me to speak has a notebook. But I said, Larry, that's because you went into it five minutes. and I was like, I need to start taking notes. This guy has something worth saying.

So I was in student mode. But you said yesterday that grace is the result of the absence of doubt. Exactly. I thought that was a really rich statement. So explain that to our audience and to our crew here, what you meant by that. I mean, you were in the context of Corinthians just to say. We were, but at the same time, you know, when I got up, I just said, man, this message is really heavy on me. I had really never experienced anything quite like this in preparation,

and Kathy will testify to this. We sat and talked for hours and hours about this idea of faith. And it really, I didn't know we'd end up in Hebrews 11 after all of this, but we use words that we don't always truly understand, like the word disciple. What does the word disciple mean? It actually means to be a disciplined learner, to put yourself under the authority.

And how do you put yourself under the authority of someone else? Well, it's through faith, but what does that really mean? When I say I have faith in Christ, it relates more in the vernacular that we use to trust. And so grace is, is not the, or faith is not the absence of sin. That's, that it leads to grace. But grace is the absence of doubt.

And so I, to be in Christ, to be constantly under his authority to receive his grace, I need to be in trust. And so you could actually literally replace all of these words where it's talking about faith is that, I mean, here's Abraham and he's about to plunge this knife into Isaac's heart. And he's giving back to God what he didn't have before. The only thing that he has to give back. And it is in pure trust. And I think I heard you say a couple of podcasts ago that, you know, it's just like, he's like, we're coming back. I trust that God's got this.

And so I talked about the meaning of the word amen. We use amen so many times as like, well, I give my stamp of approval to that. I agree with that. We used that as a... One point in there when he was debating on killing just was told to kill his son. Yeah. You know, one point in there he said, well, I guess he's going to raise the dead. Exactly.

You know? Yeah. And so that is a... That's a pure idea of trust. But when we say amen, you know what it actually means? So be it. Let it be. And so here's Mary.

You know, that's the most. And she says, let it be to me as you say it is. And so I brought the idea up with Job is that, you know, his wife says, just curse God and die. And he's like, you don't know what you're talking about, woman. You said, you're going to bless God for the things, the good things that come from God. but you're going to curse him for the evil things that come from God? And God's using both of those things to move us. And he's trying to move us from belief into trust.

Does that make sense? And Jesus said, unless you change and become like a little child, you can't enter the kingdom of heaven. And we need to have that childlike faith where it's nothing but pure trust. So does that make, did it answer your question now? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to make a couple comments about that. One is, because I never thought about that phrase, you know, it's the opposite of doubt, grace.

But it does seem to go in line with Hebrews 416. Let us then, well, I feel like I got to read what's before. But it says, you know, we have, Jesus says, our high priest, he is able to sympathize with our weaknesses because he was tempted in every way just as we are. without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, which would be, I guess, an antonym of doubt. If you're approaching God because of Jesus, which Jesus is drawn us near to God, we can approach it with his throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of God.

I mean, I just... I think you got a... You don't want to conflate grace with faith, though. You don't enter by... You think about Romans 5.1. Paul says it this way, that we have obtained our introduction. We go by faith into grace. So you can go into grace without...

It's the faith that you're... But the way you're going to get into the grace is through faith. I think a lot of theological circles flip that, and they say, no, you enter into faith by grace. I don't think that's what Paul says in Romans 5, and he kind of echoes that language in Ephesians too. He said it's similar or something like that. By this grace, you've been saved through faith that is not of yourselves.

It's a gift from God. So the faith is the, I would say the faith is more the opposite of doubt. It's like I trust what God's revelation is true. And for a lot of years, you know, I didn't understand that. And I thought I had to somehow earn my way in or I had to be good enough I had to, if I, you know, followed all the rules and proved my loyalty to God when, that's what I thought faith was. I didn't understand that faith was simply trusting that God is, number one, that he's able, he's big enough to do what he says he's going to do. And then two, that he's good.

He has my best interest at heart. Exactly. And that's how I enter into grace, right? And that's trust. And I looked up exactly what I said. I said that faith is not the absence of sin. Faith is the absence of doubt. And so that's, that's where we get into.

trust, and that's where Paul comes to that conclusion in 2 Corinthians 12 and verse 9, when he's like praying three times to take this thorn away from me, and God is trying to move him from belief into trust. And he's like, don't you understand God, if you'll remove this thorn from my flesh, then I'll be able to serve you perfectly. And he's like, don't you understand, Paul, that that's the only guarantee that I've got that you're going to be dependent on me. And so I'm going to leave that right there. Yeah. And he says my, he said, my grace is sufficient for you. And Paul has an aha moment where he says,

okay. So his power is made perfect in my weakness. And he moves and understands that grace is the result of the absence of doubt. Yeah. That was my point of reading Hebrews 416 that I think was missed. It said you can approach with confidence. Right. Yeah. Being sure. That's the confidence. Well, because you look, when they're all looked, I mean, read Hebrews 11, all of this, if you looked at the, what was going on, I mean, I think about Sarah.

I mean, you have a promise here. You're going to have a baby. Well, she's looking at her body, the reality saying, huh? So she got a way two different things here. Am I going to trust the promise? of God, or am I going to trust what I'm looking at here? Because really, when you think about our world, you were talking about the culture,

I mean, I don't know why this popped into my head. I mean, I think if people who don't believe, they would basically take Hebrews 11, they would probably change the word faith to trust. And they'd say, now trust is being sure of what we know. So not what we hope for. They would look at data. Hmm.

Well, that's, yeah. And we, and certain of what we see. Because most people say, you know, when they say the reason they don't believe in God now in this technology world and data-driven world, I mean, I've heard the arguments. They're like, well, the smarter we get, the more, the more things that we know, they'll say we know that what religious people are attributing to supernatural beginnings, we can now know by data and research that the material universe is supporting whatever, you know, that we evolve from seawater. And, I mean, you listen to all these arguments. Because they're like, well, look at the data.

Look at the data. Look at the data. It's all about the data. It's all about the data. But what if the data is not true? Exactly. You know, it's still, I think it always comes back to this situation that Sarah was in, which, look, we all like, we're glad that she trusted in God, but that would be very difficult

if, you know, God is telling you to do something that the material universe is saying can't happen. Right. But she was confident at some point after she laughed, I guess. Well, the whole point I think I was trying to make in this idea of doubt is that doubt is, is different than data. Because here's Eve in the garden. And she is walking with God. She's daily conversing with God. And so here comes the enemy and says,

he can't attack God on the existence. She's not an atheist. He can't convince her that God's not real. And so he engages her with the word of God. Did God really say? And she's like, yes. Yeah. That's indisputable.

Yeah. The evil one's giving her different data. No, let me finish my thought here. Hang on. This is important to what I'm saying. Is that she, all that he can do is attack the character of God. And that's what doubt does. But God, yeah, he may have said that, but he didn't really mean that.

He just doesn't want you to be like him. Well, she's created in his image. That's the truth. Yeah, that's right. But he has something. He's holding. out on you. And so what doubt does is attack the character of God. Nothing's attacking the character. Data has no character. That's the thing. We're talking about all of this goes back to, I trust God

because I know his character. And doubt is the nuclear warhead of all unbelief. Yeah. And that's the basis of our faith is on who I have faith in. And that is the character of God. He's the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. This is a person. No, I agree. I was just making a point that someone wrote the data, though. So the evil one was introducing different data.

So it's like, well, who's right? So the character of where you're getting the data, I think, matters on where you're going to put your faith in truck. When I was in the fire service and I was a public information officer, I would have the media constantly wanting statistics from me. And I would say, that's great. I can give you statistics, but you got to be careful with statistics. Because statistically speaking, if I have one foot in fire and the other in ice, I should be perfectly comfortable. Yeah.

Well, the context matters. You know, there are lies and then there are statistics. You know, what I'm saying, the data doesn't always tell the truth. Everything that's true is not the truth. Like I said, you know, last time I was here. Well, the same. It's hard for scientists to measure in a lab, the fruits of the spirit. Right.

I mean, you know, we get in. And you can have the right data. You can actually have the right information and still choose the wrong thing. For example, if you told someone who was addicted to pornography, and said, look, this is damaging your relationship with your wife. I bet most people would say, yeah, you're probably right. But they're still, like, that's not enough to offer relief from that. And I think most of our sin struggles, it's not a lack of information.

We're not cognitive machines walking around, cognitively making these decisions all the time. We operate from a level of the heart. And I think what, to Larry's point, I think you're right. I think whenever Adam and Eve, when they sin, I mean, Satan came in with a lot of things that God had actually said. I mean, it was based in truth, you know. The God really say you can't eat from any tree in the garden. So it's like half truths that are a little bit there, but they're not all the way fully flushed out. And he's just laying that seed of doubt.

Exactly. So I think you're so right, Larry, that the seed is is that God does not have your best interest in heart. There's another knowledge out there outside of God that is actually going to be more fulfilling for you. And so that was the temptation. That's what we see in the gospels in Gnosticism. It's like, it's Jesus plus. It's Jesus is not enough. Jesus' words is not enough.

you've got to have this, you've got to have that, and Jesus is enough. Well, the issue at hand is, other words, in the, all of what was swirling around Abraham's head, basically when you, as a human being, someone comes to you and tells you, guess what? even old writings are just your neighbor and someone comes along and says hey here's the deal and you can go back to Abraham and Isaac in that scenario there's there's life beyond death death won't separate you you'll live on they're like I mean the world around us to them that is complete nonsense well it doesn't seem all no we die that's is it and and when if you're talls it comes along and you say well i don't know god said that you just

you fall asleep but there's a resurrection there's there's life beyond death i mean it's not over when you die well you hear that it's a pretty good bone to be chewed for you to say you know what i'm i'm accepting that by faith yeah no i know but phil i've read this in bible studies before you know and the faith is being sure of what we hope for and so what we do not see and had the intellectual type say, well, that's not reasonable. That's right. They're like, because they're thinking that the Christian life is like a leap of faith, you know, like you're walking along a road, and then you look around and say, I need to have faith.

And so you get to the cliff's edge and you're like, I'm going to jump and see if God is real. well, no, that's not what we're talking about. No. You see what I mean? But they're like, that's what you're asking me to do. They run it to a statistical data-driven mindset. Right. So what I was going to say is, like, when you read in verse, where's the one where it says,

we understand what it said by faith. Oh, in verse three. He said, by faith, we understand. I mean, that's why he said faith comes through hearing the message. And we've said these are based on promises. And Jesus spent hours. hours in the gospel is talking about you're hearing but you don't understand. So you, it's an informed faith, even though things that can happen are beyond,

it's not contradictory to reason, but it is beyond what you would reasonably assume like in the situation that Abraham, Sarah, or, you know, sacrifice your child, who is going to be, you know, his, his generations are going to be, as, numerous as the stars, where you're like, well, wait a minute, that's not reasonable. But then when you factor in the promises of God, the character of God, the abilities of God, and you're trusting in that, all of a sudden, your faith becomes sure, even though what you're seeing in this world, this created world that he created, doesn't really add up. And that's why I think the theme of Hebrews 11 that we haven't touched on, I mean, if I wanted to

get up and scream a phrase, it's not over. Right. This is not over. Because you're like, well, Abel's still speaking, even though he's dead. Well, that flies in the face of every reasonable argument. They're like, well, it's over. He's gone. He's been gone. Oh, it's not over.

And I think that's what we're getting at. Hang on, Larry. Let's take a break. Before you make your point, Larry, I wanted to make a point about the two examples that you guys both used in Sarah and Eve. Look at the results of what happened. when you don't trust the character and promise of God. Instead, you come up with your own plan.

Eve immediately, her eyes were open, but what was, how does she feel about that? Ashamed. Right. She ran, she said, look at him. She ran and covered up. Exactly. Look at Sarah.

Sarah, it was her plan. And then as soon as she gets pregnant, the maid servant now with the child, she despises her. Right. I mean, see what happened. When you follow your own device and you don't trust, and God's character, it never ends well for you.

It always leads to something worse. And that's exactly the point. I think that, you know, here they are. They're naked and unashamed in the garden. They don't even know they're naked because they are so God aware, they're God-focused. And as soon as they take their eyes and they sin and they have this now knowledge of good and evil, what happens?

They become completely self-consumed. and they turn their eyes completely on themselves. And it's like, oh, my goodness, I'm naked. I'm going to start finding some leaves and trying to, you know, hide my shame. And that's the thing about running from, you know, you mentioned all three of these words that I wanted to bring up, Alan, is that we stand and fall by the definitions of the words that we use. And it's, I mean, it's really scary when you think about how we don't truly, if I'm reading a book and some of you, like Zach is an intellectual. type. If he gets to a word, you know, that I don't understand, I just go, you know, and I just go on and read what, and I totally miss the meaning of what that word's trying to say. He would stop and look it up

and a thesaurus and have a better understanding. We just run by things we don't understand. And so when we use the word character and we use the word doubt and we use the word faith and all of these things, this idea of trust and promise, all of these words, what makes a promise powerful? What makes a promise believable? The one who made it? The character. Yeah. Of the one who's making the promise.

That's why I don't have a bag. Well, I'm saying the promise was made and we have a character issue. If I told somebody, I'm calling you at 8 o'clock, whether it calls. comes or not, and I'm going to let you know, and the call doesn't come. After on the loading ramp somewhere out there, someone said, we'd sell that quick. You're not going to believe this. I wasn't going to share this, but I got my team on it. They took the number, the data, looks it up.

It's at the airport. Yeah. I could have gone and got it. It arrived. Oh, my. But I didn't, because I took someone's word that they were going to come. I didn't look up the number. I was like, I got a person.

I have an actual person. That's why I don't fool with the digital. crap. The digital actually won. The person is who lied to me said they were going to call. That's why this is so frustrating. But, look, speaking of... It's a broken, fallen world. Look, speaking of... Where's the bag right now? Do you have the bag at your house? No, but as soon as this is over, I'm headed to that airport. Look, and heaven's coming with me. And I'm going to go in there with grace and forgiveness. And I'm going to be happy and joyful. You're sure of what you hope

for. And you're certain of what you have not made you. And look, if I see that person who promised me, an empty promise, I'm going to say three words, I forgive you. Oh, there you go. So I'm trying to. It all comes full circle. So what I was going to say about all this data, do you realize that Jesus in the last, is it the last verse of John, where it says, where John wrote that if everything that he had done had been written down, there wouldn't have been enough books in the whole world. hold it. So it's not that, because we just have one book, and I think that's what the problem from a worldly point of view is, they're like, well, this is all the data you have. And it's not a

whole lot compared, I mean, there's, that we have now companies that just hold data. It's miles and thousands of miles. And they're able to sell it. It's a, it's a commodity. Oh, they sell it. And they're making informed, in quotation, decisions based on the origin. And they're able to sell it. And they're origin of the universe and everything else. But the problem is, no matter what they come up with, how much data, there comes a point where it's over. From the spiritual life, I mean, you just think about our lives. We sin and we mess up, and what do people generally think in life at some point?

It's over. My life's over. I screwed up. I shouldn't have done this. And that's how we say it. And then when you start feeling bad physically, you get old, whatever, you think, well, it's over. So now all of a sudden you come to Hebrews 11, and you're reading this.

and you're like, oh, wait, it's not over? Based on we have data, but the data leads to a person who can't lie, which is the key character point. I mean, he made this in Hebrews. So I said all this to say this. I kind of have some breaking, I'm breaking down the, what is that saying, breaking down the fourth wall. So the name of this podcast is unashamed.

And it kind of comes from Romans 116. Well, we all agree with that. But I think the greater point that I thought when Larry was talking a while ago, and we were talking about this approaching the throne of grace with confidence, is when you kind of get down to chapter 11 and verse 13, and it's kind of sad because it's not reasonable. I was just putting myself in an unbelievers viewpoint. I mean, all these people that we're reading and we're celebrating this great, faithful people,

they were still living by faith when they died. You're like, well, what happened? Was it a happy ending? No, they died. and except Enoch, I guess. Yeah. They did not receive the things promise. Well, that's another bummer.

It's like not only did they die, they didn't get the benefits of the promises in their life. And it's going to get worse as we go through Hebrews. I mean, a lot of them were butchered and martyred. And it's like, well, we're, you know, God must not have been pleased with them. So then it says they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted.

that they were aliens and strangers on earth. I mean, that doesn't seem very fun. To constantly live like an alien or a stranger to other people. Some would call them unhinged. Yeah, exactly. But look, and so then it gets to that famous verse. Hang on, Jay's a break. So then it gets to that famous verse about they were looking, you know, toward heaven.

But then this last verse in 16 kind of hit me. And then it says, therefore God is unashamed to be called their God. For he has prepared a city for them. And it just kind of hit me in that moment. I thought that's a more powerful thing that despite our mess-ups, despite our moments of lack of faith, despite what we think our life ended kind of empty,

you know, it didn't look like it was that great from everybody else's perspective. The fact that God is not ashamed to be called their God, despite what we do, and he's got a place for us. Now, that's encouraging. That's good. Yeah, that's truly. When you hold the truth because of your character and who you are, when you're making the promises and fulfilling the promises, you're unashamed.

People can, you know, we're always trying to defend the Word of God, and people are like, you know, I have to defend this. And I think it was Charles Spurgeon that said the Word of God is like a lion. You don't have to defend a lion. you just open the cage and the line that'll offend itself. It's just, he's unashamed by what he says, by what he does. And he is not going to allow his character to be called into question. And that's what we see in the book of Job.

Yeah. Well, he gets back to the grace. And he's like, who you're going to, you're going to question my character? Where were you? Yeah. When I flung these stars in the sky. Well, it gets back to grace. When you have that line about grace, I thought about that.

because I was like, I mean, that's a bumper sticker. I mean, I'm not ashamed because he's not ashamed. You know, I mean, Hebrews, where's that again? 11, 16. I mean, it's a powerful verse because I just think we have a tendency to try to make it about us. And if these guys in this chapter made it about them, from the outside looking in, they're like, these guys are a bunch of idiots. Yeah.

I mean, even, I mean, we've gone through some of the stories, but Noah, Bill Nark, when it never rained, you're way away from the ocean. That's trust. It's just what that is. Exactly. But you're trusting a God who can't lie who's bigger than what you're seeing with your eyeballs because your physical eyeballs on this earth.

I guess that's my point. I love placing the preeminence on him, though. I think it was Tozier, A.W. Tosier that said something like it's a, I'm a lot less concerned about whether I accept God and way more concerned about does he accept me? I think that we approach our faith with like this humanistic foundation. Even like a lot,

that's a great point, Jay. We're going to change the name of the podcast. That's it. Well, we're going to get into trouble now. Yep. We can just. No, we're just adding to it.

We're not changing. Yeah, we're not, yeah, we're still ashamed. We're growing in our faith. Mm-hmm. Because we had, you know, there's a lot of references. I mean, since Larry's here, we can ask you, I don't want to chase a rabbit. But I've always been intrigued

about when he when he talks about Jesus talks about degrees of faith he's like oh ye of little faith if you i'm surprised at your lack of faith and the parable about if you have the faith as small as a mustard seed which seems like a positive in other places he's like oh boy oh ye of little faith i mean so i don't know maybe that's the next step it's one thing to understand faith that to have faith it's the next to try all right we we need to grow this faith because he does think there's a lot of references about the amount of faith you have any thoughts on that yeah i just i i think that um when jesus is standing toe to toe to the pharisees and they're confronting him over a miracle that he did that basically says he's god in the flesh and he answers them

by saying you know moses and abraham they would have loved to have seen this in their day and with eyes of faith and trust they did but you guys are seeing it and they would they would have loved to have been here to see what you guys are seeing and you guys don't believe it and that is that trust they our trust is based on the character and the person of jesus christ we we didn't always understand what god was like and this goes back all into this deity of christ we haven't always known what god was like but now we do the word became flesh. Yeah.

And he stood and he spoke the word to us. We heard him with our ears and this is what John says. We have beheld his glory. We cannot ever go back and deny that we do not understand now or see what God's like. What does God like? He's like Jesus. He's always been like Jesus. There's not a single time that God has not been like Jesus.

If God became flesh, what would he look like? Jesus. Exactly. And so this seems so simple, yeah, complex. But I mean, Hebrews 1 in the past, God spoke to us through prophets and, you know, our forefathers in many times, various ways. But in these last days, he has spoken to us in the flesh, incarnate, in person, in son. Wow. And so, and this is the point that Jesus is making is that, and that's what I think the Hebrew writer here in 11 is making. is that all of this faith, all of these things did, all these people did these things based on their trust in the character of who God was. Yeah.

Yeah. I wanted to inject this. And by the way, Jay, I think you're right. Now we've got another prism to add to the unashamed podcast because Romans 116 is one prism of being bold and being unashamed of what God has done our lives. but you can't have that without understanding the Hebrews 11-16 that God is unashamed of us. So I think now we have to put those two verses together. Oh, look at that.

I didn't notice the numbers, the 11-16 and the 11-16. Oh, man, all these conspiracy theorists out there, they're like, we finally figured it out. The 16s. That's exactly right. Somebody's going to make a t-shirt about this. You realize that, don't you? You can't get Romans 1, Romans 1116 without Hebrews 1116. 1116, exactly.

That's the true. Let me read these verses because we just have a couple of minutes left and then we can flesh them out a little bit in overtime. Because one of you said something interesting earlier that you would think with these people they were reading about that, you know, we talk about how great they are and we know because we're able to look back over their entire life. but when they were living it, it wasn't pretty. I mean, especially where we're going from here, once we get past Abraham. So in verse 20, it says, because we'd finish up that about Abraham reasoning to the resurrection. So now we're going to the next generation.

By faith, Isaac, who's that son of promise that, you know, he was told to sacrifice, and then he stepped in, blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future. And then I want to read the next one, by faith, Jacob, when he was told to sacrifice, and then he stepped in, he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshipped as he leaned on the top of his staff. And I thought it was interesting because the Hebrew writer, he took the highlight from both of those guys because when we go, and we're going to go back and discuss some about what actually happened. I mean, those are obviously both true, and there was blessings, and they did trust God, but there was a lot that happened about, you talk about not trusting God's character.

and I mean, just there were some shenanigans that went on with those two generations full of trouble and doubt and jealousy and backbiting and deceit and just all these things that happens as a result of that. And I think it's, you know, the Hebrew writer doesn't go into it. He doesn't have to. But when you go back and read the Genesis account, it's like, oh, my word, you know, faithful people still have a lot of struggles. And I think that's what highlights probably these generations more than anything to me.

But ultimately, they're trusted. got. Right. And it just, when we respond to God in a trusting way, I just, I think about Noah, man, it's one thing to do something for a week. It's one thing to sustain a trusting. Why, when you get up every morning, why am I doing what I'm doing for a hundred years? Yeah. When everybody in the world is screaming at you like, dude, there's not an ocean. We, You know, there's nowhere, you're in the middle of a desert, you're building a boat to be ridiculed and mocked and unhinged for a hundred years and to, I mean, belief is one thing. Faith is one thing. Trust is the only thing I think that got Noah in that ark and God himself shut that door.

And it is eight people saved by water in the hand of God. Yeah, that's exactly right. All right. We're out of time. Great discussion. We'll pick up in the overtime and talk a little bit more about this. You can get there by blazedtv.com slash unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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