Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 539 | Robertson Grand Theft Auto, Sucker-Punching, Bitterness as Fuel & the Consuming Fire of God

Episode Date: August 31, 2022

Jase tells the story of how Reed found himself the victim of grand theft auto and what can lead to a person's rejection of good authority. Phil discusses how the world has become so angry that bitterness is used as fuel, but that God is the ultimate consuming fire. Al tells the story of a man who sucker-punched an innocent person in New York. And Jase shares the number-one thing that "Unashamed" listeners tell him they have difficulty letting go of when it comes to holding a grudge. Watch the Unashamed overtime show, only on BlazeTV: https://BlazeTV.com/Unashamed Visit https://Keeps.com/PHIL and get 50% off your first order of hair loss treatment - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, Jase. We're back again. More unashamed. What's happened in your life these days? Well, I guess this is the calm before the storm. Since you've decided, my lovely wife will join us next podcast. I love it with Missy's on. I love to see you squirm. No, I'm sure we'll give a report about being, uh, I don't even know how to you describe it when you have a new young one. Yeah, well, you guys have so much going on.

But one of the things I'm excited about is we've been in like a really intense part of scripture in Hebrews 11 and 12. And so I want to get, at least is going to join me on my end for the podcast as well on the next one. And I want to get the women's perspective on this text because it's so good. Well, yeah, I think it, you know, it all comes. comes down to relationships and we're definitely different. And I think it'll, I think it'll be interesting. We had something happen, you know, with our, my son called me yesterday.

And he's like, you ready for a story, which reminded me of me? You know, we passed the storytelling down. No idea what he's fixed to say. So he's at his office, you know, he's, he, he, He gets houses, real estate. They, they, you know, if it's some old broken down house, they bulldoze them, build another one. That's basically the concept. So his partner, they decided they're going to go eat lunch at a food truck.

So they're gone to a total of 20 minutes. They go down, get some chips and salsa and an enchilada and come back. Well, his phone starts ringing. And it's a Michigan number, so he's like, spam, you know, so he's not going to answer it. Well, then it rings again. Same number. Then it rings again. He's like, what is going on here?

Well, during those rings, his wife, my daughter-in-law sends him a text, says the police are trying to call you, answer your phone. Well, then the same number dial, so he answers it. And they're like, Reed Robertson, he's like, yes. He said, oh, we have your truck. Well, he's like, he then looks out the window because he assumed his truck was parked on the side of the road where his office is.

And his truck's not there. And it said, we've apprehended three individuals that just committed a crime driving your truck, shooting perhaps your gun because he had a gun in his truck. So then he's like feeling around for his concealed carry. She's like, oh, that was in my truck. So he tears out there and goes, sure enough, yeah. So three wayward use figured out how to get into his, well, one of them got his truck,

another truck on the same street they got. They like pulled up because they, you know hindsight's 2020 and they tried to steal three vehicles and tear out of there and go i guess take them to wherever they were going to process them but when they got to the third truck well some guy right down the you know road from where reed was said hey what are y'all doing well then they took my son's gun and fired seven rounds at that guy who was saying yeah and so then when the cops got there two of them went into a house and there was an old lady there and i mean it was quite the story and so uh you know he was telling me so when reed showed up well then they were

hollering at him the guys in handcuffs and at the police for you know racist remarks or you know whatever re was like i mean i just can't believe this they stole my truck took my gun and and shot at people And then when I showed up, they were like, oh, they said they hollered amongst four little words, you know, entitlement. And these were 17 and 18 year olds. And I thought, well, if you ever want to see a problem in our society, there it is. That's it. Wow. It was pretty sad.

But he was obviously shaken. But he's like, I mean, his truck was locked. He left for 20 minutes and that happened. And that's in the, you know, that's in Tennessee. You don't, you know, we, we think about like big cities, but. Well, it's Nashville. Nashville. Yeah.

It is. Well, Nashville is a big city. I mean, this is, yeah. Yeah, I just thought, boy, you're just, you know, you're going through life one day and then, bam. I mean, it just shows you how, you know, number one, how close the line. is to spiritual warfare becoming physical warfare. Complete anarchy. Yep.

These inner cities, there's... There's definitely a problem. Of course, it starts in the home and just the disrespect that he saw just being there with the way they were talking to the police and the way they were talking to him. He was like, woof. I mean, where in the world? We obviously got a breakdown in the home here. Because you don't get that resentful and bold and spiteful on accident.

Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. I don't think that these particular young bucks had any discipline. That's weird. That was the first thought. I thought it was a lack. There's a lack of discipline. here somewhere early on. That's right.

To just have no regard to someone's property. Look, this is, it's not like this as late at night. I bet you $100 to that there was either no father disciplining them or he was there and he still didn't do his job. He either was not there, not on the premises, or was there and did nothing in the way of discipline. So we've raised up a whole generation of young people. coming up in broad daylight.

Yeah. Shooting at people and steal your vehicle like they're going to get away with it. But a lot of them now, then, well, our law enforcement is pretty thin. Yeah. We pretty well handcuffed them. Well, but think about it. Jason is right. What's interesting about that scenario is one, we can see it without discipline.

And, Dad, you're right, right in Hebrews 12, which is where we are. lays out what happens when you don't have that. But why the, why the bitterness and the hatred and the resentment towards, I mean, you're the lawbreakers. You're the ones that are doing all these things. And yet that's a perfect example. It's your fault that we're doing all this sinful behavior. Yeah.

Right. It's almost like they, he talked about entitlement. It's like we're entitled to just total anarchy and to steal and do whatever we want to do. And you should just sit back and let us do it. Whatever they had been taught. That's what enraged him. You know, he's like, are you kidding me? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we're going to cover Hebrews 13 in a minute, verse 8. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value of those who eat them. He's just saying, there's a lot of people. That's Hebrews 13. A lot of people in our culture today, Al, I mean, J.S. Al, they have what you call strange teachings. I mean, no discipline, do what you want to do.

You know, they have women, but none of them are their wives. And it's just kind of, somebody comes through every once in a while, and the children are produced. but there's no cohesiveness about any of it. There's no structure to it, no fear of God in it, no obedience to the truth, no love, no joy, no peace, no patience, no kindness, no goodness, no faithfulness, no gentleness, no self-control, and you reap what you sow, and that's where we are. So there's a coming collapse unless these things are dealt with. Yeah, and the thing about it is just like, I mean, Jason is now experienced in his own family.

It's just a matter of time before we're all affected and impacted. You know, sometimes you kind of live in a- I think after what Jay said, we already are. Well, yeah, it's exactly right. That's what I'm saying. I mean, that's a, that's a dangerous situation. Yeah, you're happy that nobody got hurt and, you know, they called them. But, you know, they'll just go through the process.

He didn't get his gun back because they, the clip was laying like on a driveway the house where they uh two of them tried to hold up in when the cop showed up he said the other one just plopped down in the grass and act like he just been sitting there but the cops saw that he was sitting on another gun that they had so they tackled and they were like what you doing i'm just i'm just sitting here hanging out you know because reeds don't think go down he was like i mean that was his story. I was just sitting here,

mine and my own business in the yard, you know. And was that yesterday? No, it was yesterday. Yesterday. Right now, I bet you $10, that they're all walking the streets again. Well, let's hope not.

I don't. I'll take that bet. I don't think so. But, I mean, you can't just, I mean, they were in New York City, they would be. They're doing it nationwide,

yes. Yeah, well, I mean, they're firing at police. They're doing it nationwide. Well, I mean, you may be right, but I mean, I did think, you know, in this from our text that we're going to, where are we at in our text, before I jump forward? We're in Hebrews 12.

We kind of touched on the discipline last time, which actually your story is the perfect illustration of what happens when there's no discipline. And here, you know, we're talking about believers in the church and they were. being tempted to go back into this pre-Jesus era and the ritualistic type religion, which was their heritage, you know. So, I mean, understandably, they're trying to make this transition. But I do think the same concepts can be used here. I mean, because you think about, I thought about this where it said, you know, when we get to 15, see to it that no one misses the grace of God.

and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. I mean, a lot of these people, when you have hardship, which is what he says in Hebrew 7, endure hardship as discipline, you know, when you have hardship, you can respond various ways. But one of the ways people respond is bitterness. And bitterness becomes a fuel towards any kind of authority. and so when you know we're we're going to get to the end which look one of the scariest passages in the whole bible is found at the end of chapter 12 because when he says uh 25 see to it that you do not refuse him who speaks

i mean there are a lot of people it's a it's a wide road that leads to destruction who are ultimately going to refuse the grace of god and refuse him as being creator. A mighty throne. And authority. And so when they rebel and there's no fear of God, there's no, that trickles down to no fear of authority that,

you know, God has set up the institutions that we have here today, you know, Romans 13. Yeah, Romans 14th is right. Yeah, but when he gets to the end, he's like, I mean,

he, grace is a common theme here. holiness and perseverance and thankfulness and all these things, these good qualities. But it gets to the end and he's like, now I want to warn you, don't refuse him. And then the last verse says, for our God is a consuming fire.

And granted, he's given you the difference in, because he set the tone of when the first law came, the old law, that you had a completely different set of, you know, conditions where, I mean, there was fear. It was based on fear. We're talking about mountain shaking and the voice of God and here's the law. And if you just, if anything touches the mountain, you know, strict punishment too. Yeah, it's like a scary, which God, you know, if that was the way that this thing would have, would have been.

I mean, what a different dynamic that is where everybody's running around. Motivated by fear instead of love. Yeah, but God is a God of grace. Let's take a break. No, you're exactly right. That's the clear picture that the rest of Hebrews 12 shows, just what you're describing. I mean, it's, I call it a tale of two mountains, you know. Yeah, but it's interesting.

So verse 14, before the one you said about bitterness, which you're, is it. exactly right. And you saw that in those young men. It's interesting that the Hebrew writer coming out of this idea about discipline and hardship, he says, make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord. And I think that's interesting because you could take that one or two ways. No one see the Lord, meaning, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to make it unless you trust him. Or no one will see. the Lord in you. I mean, I think either one of those could apply.

Yeah, I agree. Well, I think it's a process, you know, where it says no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. And so when you think about this process, you've got hardship or pain, which, you know, kind of leads to, in our case, God's promises, you know, in our. our trust in him. And then we view hardship as discipline, which is what he's trying to get us to see.

And ultimately, it's going to lead to grace. And then what you said, our peace with all men, because you have a way to start over. Instead of like, you think about when people go through pain or some kind of hardship, it's all how you respond to it. Well, some people spend the rest of their life responding to the pain

or hardships that they had as a kid, which is why you get into sexual immorality, all kinds of drunkenness or drug addiction, or just rage. And what I thought, you know, I kind of looked at this bitterness and just looked at other verses before our talk today. And what I found interesting, because it says it's a root. And when I look back in,

I wrote this down somewhere in Deuteronomy, 2918 you know this same thing came up even under the old law and i'll read it for you but he uses the same phrase as far as a root of bitterness but in this case in deuteronomy 29 he calls it like a poison that spread you know among the among the group so 29 18 says, if I can get there, I hadn't been in Deuteronomy lately. I bet that part of your Bible is still together. Yeah, it is. It's real, real clean.

Leviticus too, probably. It says, 2918, make sure there is no man or woman clan or tribe among you today whose heart turns away from the Lord, our God, to go and worship the gods of those nations. make sure there is no root among you that produces such bitter poison. And so if you kind of go back and read the context of this, like in verse 12, you know, on the positive side that says you're standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the Lord your God, a covenant the Lord is making with you this day and sealing with an oath to confirm you this day as his people that he may be your God. God as he promised you, and he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I'm making this covenant with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord, our God, but also with those who are not here today. And I wanted to read that just because I think the Hebrew writer was familiar with that. And I think that's why he went here talking about the bitter root. Because when you think about bitterness, and just fast forward to our lives today in a verse I want to read in Ephesians, I think bitterness is the spiritual pandemic, you know, to make that illustration that happens, you know, in the church. Because it's not just, you know, even our text there, it says, see that no bitter root that rises up and defiles many. it becomes like a spiritual pandemic.

And I think Ephesians 4 really illustrates that because you think about it. So something happens, let's say in this context, in the church. And one individual gets bitter at another individual. So when you read Ephesians 431, it says get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, brawling and slander along with every form of malice, but be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other just as Christ, God forgave you. Well, I believe that that bitterness is like the root where it starts, because you think about it, when you get bitter about someone or something, even if it's someone did you wrong, you say, what happens? The process is when you start replaying that moment in your mind,

over and over. And the more you think about it, what? The matter you get. So then what happens? Well, then it leads to, you got anger. Well, then it leads to brawling and slander because then every time their name comes up or a situation comes up, you always take the negative side. And sometimes you're under the same roof. And sometimes you're under the same roof. Well, especially in churches, which is then what leads to factions, which is one group against another. But it all started with somebody got hot because of...

And I've heard of being bitter 30 years later, 30 years later, 40 years later. 40 years later. At the time he did this or she did that, and I'm like, and you're still, you're still wrestling with that? But it ultimately leads to malice, which is how can I inflict the most pain, psychologically, spiritually or physically, on this individual. And so then this is what happened. So then when you get together, like at a house church or a Bible talk, they become a group of people, which is, you know, you introduce things like gossip and where you're now against another group of people

that used to be your brothers and sisters in the church. I mean, you may say they are. And this is happening every day. And it all came from this, you know, it started. That's why he said, don't have a business. bitter root rise up. Now in this context, because of hardship or because some of you want to go back to your traditions and the way you were raised in your religious setting. And so people are like, well, I don't like this new era. You know, you got these Jesus freaks or whatever they were

calling the people who were putting their faith and trust in Jesus. They're like, let's go back to the way it was and bitterness developed. And then you miss the grace of God because you can't have the grace of God without Jesus. There you go. Yeah, you're right. You're right, Jay's. It really is probably you could trace any bit of all this bad stuff for others in a family and a church or whatever back to this route.

I had a text I wanted to read the same context as what you were talking about in James Chapter 3. He says, James, and again, this is a mostly Jewish audience. So it's a lot in line with Hebrews. Who is wise and understanding among you? let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy, there it is again. Now, James attaches envy to it.

And selfish ambition in your hearts do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven, but is earthly, unspiritual of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder in every evil practice. Same thing. It starts with the bitterness, but then it grows into something worse. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure, then peace loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. Let's take a break. So you see the idea there is that it's just what you were describing. Jace, when the root is bitterness or any of the things we've been reading,

the fruit becomes poisonous from the root. But when it's sincere and in Christ, the fruit becomes what dad described earlier is the fruit of the spirit. Yeah. Well, I thought of another example. I mean, you remember in Acts 8 when, you know, Simon the sorcerer, you know, he comes to Jesus, you know, in verse 12. And he, when they believe Philip as he preached the good news,

the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus, and they're baptized both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And then he starts noticing that, you know, Philip and Peter and who else was around here? Peter and John, they have this power with the ability to lay their hands on people and see the miraculous, which was, you know, Hebrews too. What we've gone over was confirming the message that Jesus is Lord and that they had been, you know, empowered. Well, I mean, he comes to Jesus, but then in verse 18, when Simon saw that the spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money and said, give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

I'll just buy that. Yeah, so you said, what does this get to do with bitterness? But watch how this work. In verse 20, Peter answered, may your money perish with you because you thought you could be. buy the gift of God with money. You have no part or share in this ministry because your heart is not right before God. So he tells him to repent of this wickedness. I mean, this is about a strong confrontation.

He's just converted and he's like, you need to repent of this wickedness. You'll have no part in our ministry. Pray to the Lord and perhaps he'll forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. And then he makes this phrase, he says, for I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin. So instead of him embracing God's grace, you know, and he's just surrendered, all of a sudden he sees, you know, a way to make money. And he's bitter because he doesn't have the same power that the apostles have. But I thought, you know, even today, I mean, in our churches, if you're bitter or envious of other members of the church or, you know, especially from a leadership standpoint, I mean, I think the same thing happens today. I mean, it's not just because somebody does something wrong.

It's like you said, Al, it's almost attached to envy where you get something in your mind that somebody else, you know, what they have is what you deserve. and you don't have, and for whatever reason, and then it starts this slanderous, you know, accusations, mean, spirit, and you just don't like people in the church, and division happens. I mean, I think that that becomes one of the worst testimonies to the world is all this division in the church, and it all starts from just being better. Forgiveness comes hard for a lot of people, bow. It just can't give them. Forgive them and move on, man. You notice what the Hebrew writer says, you know how they get that way? They miss the grace of God.

One of the ESV says, fail to obtain the grace of God. And ASV says fall short of the grace of God. So the idea is without grace, you don't have that opportunity. Listen to the way Peter puts it in 1st Peter 1. It's really interesting because he uses almost the exact same language is the Hebrew writer in verse 113. Therefore, prepare your minds for action, be self-controlled, set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. So back to grace. As obedient children, there's Hebrews 12, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived

in ignorance, but just as he who called you as holy, so be holy in all you do, for it is written be holy because I am holy. And so I really love the way Peter frames it because the same idea. The holiness comes from Christ in you. And so, you know, when he says that about no one will see the Lord if there's no holiness, I think that's what he means. In other words, if they see what Jason is describing in churches, and let's face it, how many churches have split and splintered and movement splintered over just not being able to get along and people being so ugly to one? It's the worst possible example. Too many.

Yeah. It really is. You know, and I think that's in the middle of all this. I mean, I'll read it. I think that's why he brought up Esau. You know, it says, make every effort in verse 14 of 12 to live in peace with all men to be holy. And, I mean, I just want to add, especially the believers in Jesus, without holiness, no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one.

one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. And that's the idea of either drinking the poison, that someone is shoveling out there or giving the poison in that because someone's bitter at someone else. Justifiably or not, even if somebody did you wrong, in this context, you have discipline, you have hardship, there's pain in people's lives, and you say, what are you going to do with it? And that's why grace gives us the launching point to start over, to either forgive someone else when they did you wrong or to realize, you know what, things happen.

I can choose to be bitter or I can choose to bask in the grace of God and move on, get about the business of sharing Jesus. So then he says, see that no one is sexually immoral or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance. writes as the oldest son afterward as you know when he wanted to inherit the blessing he was rejected he could bring about no change of mind though he sought the blessing with tears and so i brought up last time that a lot of people if they just read that one verse they think well i mean how come he he couldn't repent i mean he was crying but i i think it's kind of like the x-8 story i mean just because

you're railing about or even crying about and being loud, that doesn't mean you've repented. And when you miss the grace of God as your basis, you know, you just, it's implied here that what did he do based on him giving up his birthright? Well, it was obviously a dumb move, and it led to bitterness. And he then goes out. And what's he do about it? He evidently just started chasing women, which was his response because you're reading between the lines, but you realize that he had a problem getting over what he did. Well, that hasn't changed in the history of the world. I would say the number one question we get out from doing this podcast is people that come up and say, well, you know, I just can't forgive myself of something that happened or I can't

forgive somebody else all over and over and over. So here we have this scenario right here of a man who made a mistake and is trying to make it right in the wrong ways. I mean, he's just taken off and said, forget, forget this. And because he can't change it. Well, what is he missed? He's missed the grace of God. No, you're exactly. You're exactly. You're exactly. Exactly right, Jess. Let's take another break. So you've nailed it. So you think about when someone says, I have a hard time forgiving myself, what that means is that that's a lack of faith. Because what you're really saying is you don't think God can forgive you. Because if you can embrace the forgiveness of God, then you realize he's big enough for you to get past whatever's going on in your life or what's happened in the past. And you totally nailed it on Esau. Here's the thing. He sold the birthright. So the way this worked, is the blessing was just a public confirmation of the birthright. At some point before your dad dies, he's going to say, you're olded son. You get a double portion of the inheritance.

That's what the birthright meant because you've got to help watch out for the family when I'm gone. That was the whole idea. But the blessing was just a confirmation of what's already there in the birthright. Well, he had sold the birthright. And so it didn't matter whether he got the blessing or not. He had moved away. And he sold it for not much either.

A bowl of suit. Yeah, a bowl of red suit. Man. Well, I made the illustration a couple of podcasts ago. You know, I sympathize with him. That would make him get down in the dump. Yeah, look, we all do stupid stuff. And so, and bad things happen.

Some of it's not of our own choosing in this case. But let's face it, he never got over it. Oh. And it led to bitterness. And Jay's also, in fairness to him. I mean, his mom and his brother, you know, colluded to get the blessing, even though he already had the birth. Oh, that's true. It wasn't like that he, I mean, it was a bad deal all the way around, but you hit it earlier. It's all in how you respond to it. Exactly. He turns, he goes out and marries two Hittite women, which was a big no-no. You didn't marry outside of your, you know, your clan and crew. But like you said, he cast it all out. He was like, you want to see something, somebody go off the deep end. Watch me. Watch me. Watch Ezo.

Which is what we do. I wonder if that's ever happened before in the history of mankind, dealing with the same issue and dealing with the same thing. I've been running hoars. I go out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, yeah, I think that's why we, you know, he started in chapter one, I mean, chapter 12, verse one and two, where it said, let us throw off everything that hinders or weighs us down and the sin that so easily entangles and fix our eyes on Jesus. you don't let us run the race.

I mean, this is, he's just giving you an example of why you should do this, because here's a moment in his life that he never got over, and it led to some entanglement in easy sins. By the way, with your description and us just talking about this, well, there is a gigantic portion of our people in this, these United States. If you just had to say, what seems to be their problem, I think bitterness has crept in to millions in these United States. I've never seen this much bitterness with men

and women toward each other. Well, that's right. When you see rage and anger, you think, why is everybody so angry? Well, they're bitter about something. They're bitter. And this is what happens when you get away from God's holiness and God's grace and you focus on because you're going to have an opportunity to be better in life, especially when you go back to the context about parents. Look, parent, you can be try as hard as you want to be a great parent and you're still not going to pull that off 100% perfectly. So, you know, as a kid, you're going to be able to find a reason to be bitter about something. it's just the way it is you know especially if your parents aren't even around so we were talking about

you know this story that happened to my son that's what you're seeing when when this the foundation crumbles and then people get bitter and it leads to rage and anger and then that leads to malice and brawling and assault murder and i mean it's just a downward Think about it out. Bitterness came my way with one simple little question. Somebody said, some sports writer, whatever, some news person said, do you believe homosexual behavior is a sin? And I quoted a verse that said it was. And they got after me like ravaging wolves. I mean, it was just bitter hatred. It just, I mean, they got on me. So, you know, it offered us, gave us a great opportunity to get the gospel preach, which we're now doing.

But you would think over one Bible verse. He asked a question, I read a Bible verse, and I mean the rest is history. Bitterness came my way, Al. And Solomon said it best. There's nothing new under the sun. This has been around, you say, could things get worse? Yeah, go back and read Genesis 5. Oh, yeah.

Six. I mean, it's been this bad. But, you know, some of the videos that you see now, like in New York or someplace, I mean, you watch a man walk up, he walked up behind this guy. The guy's just standing there. And then he hits him so hard that when he falls out, he cracks his skull and all this. You know, this guy's never going to be the same again. He did it for no reason. He had no reason.

Well, he had done it before. I mean, yeah, I saw that also. Just because of anger and bitterness. I mean, and the guy had, they showed all of his mugshots. He'd been arrested 18 times. He's a pedophile. I mean, he should have been in jail. And yet he's so angry and bitter for whatever reason, as Jace was describing,

that he just walks up to complete strangers and hits them as hard as he can. What a crazy place we live in that. It's just unbelievable when you see it happen. Well, I think the practical things, the practical application, though, in the church is to be, you know, we can't be, we can't let the things that happen lead to bitterness. You know, because it, he singled out when he called it a root. Because the thing about it being a root is like, you can't use a weed eater on it because it just comes right back. You know, I mean, you literally got to go down deep in your soul and whatever you're bitter about and whoever you're bitter at, you got to get it out and throw that away.

I mean, I think that's the first step is you just, you have to say, you know what? I got to address this. You know, don't, don't treat the symptoms which are anger and gossip and downing people. And because that's what I, you've seen it firsthand. Like when you're in a crowd of people and somebody's name comes up and somebody immediately goes on the attack and you're like, evidently they don't like that person. Well, you're seeing bitterness there. And then you try to be positive and say, well, we all make mistakes.

And they're like, no. And so that that's how it escalates. So I was just going to give three things. I think we got to address it. Hang on. Hang on, Jay's. Let's take a break. You got to address it. And instead of rewinding what happened that's making you so mad or bitter, there has to be an eject.

You got to push the eject button. And then I think we have to pray about it. And I think it usually leads to action, which is usually an apology about how you, you've treated the situation. Instead of, I mean, that's the last thing. Instead of being bitter at someone, if you recommended that they go and apologize to them, they're like, what?

That would be the last thing. But you're just as guilty when you're bitter and you read the consequences of it in here. I mean, God takes it seriously, so seriously, that it's one of the reasons and excuses people refuse God himself because they're so bitter and so mad. about what happened. They're like, forget God.

And so that's why I started with the end first, because he's like, yes, we've come to a better covenant. We've come to thousands and thousands of angels in joyful assembly. The spirits of righteous men made perfect. The city of the living God. I mean, we're eternal beings because of God's grace. But he gets down to the end, and he's like, but he's a consuming fire.

You let bitterness take over your life and you miss the grace of God. That is the worst possible position you could be at when you stand before God. Could you safely say, Al, the first covenant given at Mount Sinai was a covenant. I've looked at it from every angle. It's just a covenant driven by fear, where the grace of God was driven by the, grace of God, is driven by love. That's why when you get past the story of Esau, you've not come to a mountain that can be touched

and that is burning with fire to darkness, gloom and storm, to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words so that those who heard it beg that no further word would be spoken to them. Now, we don't talk anymore, don't let God say anything else, because they could not bear what was commanded. if even an animal touches the mountain, kill the animal, which you say, whoa, the sight was so terrifying with the first covenant, and these people have lived it for 1,500 years.

Moses said, look, I'm trembling with fear along with all the rest of them, I guess, but you have come to Mount Zion to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. you've come to thousands of thousands upon angels in joyful assembly to the church of the firstborn whose names are written in heaven. You've come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus, mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkle blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

He's just saying the difference, and he's been saying throughout the book of Hebrews, you've come to a place where you're not shivering with fear all the time because it only leads to bitterness and whatever else sinful behavior. I mean, could you make that argument? Well, I think he's just saying, look at all the big picture, but you're caught up in the temporary, which is your hardships and your bitterness. I mean, because that's what happened.

You shared Jesus with somebody, and they respond, But you still got to live life. And nowhere in here is he promising a suffering less life. I mean, he just said in Chapter 11, these people were torture. He is a consuming fire, and you don't need to mess with him, but you don't need to be so. Yeah, but I think his point is, what I'm saying is people are like, well, fix all my problem. I don't want to suffer. I don't want to, I want to be comfortable.

I mean, they're wanting to go. I don't need to be disciplined. Yeah, I don't want discipline. I don't want hardship. I don't want persecution. I don't want to be uncomfortable. And I don't want to just trust you in all these situations. I want to do it on my own.

Have my little ritual system that I go by that makes me feel better. And I want to go to my house, be a million miles away from anything happening in the world. No pain, no strain. Yeah, live out my life. But he's like, there's a new era here. That's what we said in previous podcast. He was introducing a new area that we're representing God. Which is far better than the first one.

We're publicly on fire for Jesus. And when that happens, there's just going to be a lot of turmoil, chaos, persecution, potential for factions and bitterness. And this is just what's going to happen when you go out there and do that and get involved in people's lives. So I'll bring it up forth in our time frame, what are the ramifications? ramifications of Judaism that are still here. The ones who rejected Jesus and said, no, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, what, what's what's you say about it. Well, no matter, no matter what the religion is without Jesus, it's, it's, it won't work. So, and that's any of them.

Let me read these other verses here before we run out of time because we'll talk about more in the overtime in in 25. Because I believe this is what I call the big finale for the Hebrew writer. This is his last charge to say, you got to listen to what I've been trying to tell you this whole book. See to it that no one or see to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. As you mentioned this earlier. And remember, this is in the context. When they were at Mount Sinai, they didn't want him to even speak. They were like, we're too afraid. But he's like, look, you got to listen to it. You got to listen to the one who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven, which is pretty powerful. At that time, his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised

once more, I will shake not only the earth, but also the heavens. So he's saying, now the message is coming, not just from a gloomy, scary mountain. It's coming all the way from heaven itself. the words once more indicate the removing of what can be shaken, that is, created things, so that what cannot be shaken may remain. So now he said this is an eternal, spiritual, invisible God that we serve. Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful. So here's our attitude, thankful, and worship God acceptably with reverence and all, for our God is a consuming fire.

So my take on the consuming fire is a little bit different. I believe he's saying, once you've embraced God fully, once you're consumed by his consuming fire, your own fire. And you'll let him purge out whatever he has to. Fire has used a lot in the New Testament as a refinement. There's a lot of positive, yeah, positive things about fire. But I just think the context, I mean, he's like warning against refusing God.

I mean, he's the same fire, fiery God and God of, you know, I think in his character, he's just, I mean, he's also full of grace, but he's just. And I just think he's like, I don't want to do this. I mean, when it says let us be thankful there, you know, I looked into that word and, you know, and worship and reverence and all. But thankful is that Greek word there, you know, in view of God's grace and mercy and faithfulness, this act. attitude of he's for me even though I messed up. So, I mean, that's the ultimate goal. However, the warning against refusing him is he's a consuming fire. I mean, he loves you, he wants you, but that's just the fact of it.

But I agree, there are positive things about that too. But, I mean, because he doesn't, he doesn't want us to fear in a way that we're terrified that he's going to burn us. because he sent Jesus. And I think that's the, to me, the key underlying theme of this, Al, is when it said he speaks. This is not just some God like an idol. He speaks to his blood. Jesus's blood speaks to us. This is the way he chose to speak to us.

So if there is a God, we got to have a way to him, which he did that in Jesus, and we got to have a word. Or he would just be, there would be no direction. There would be no communication. Resounding gong or clung. Yeah, and I think he said that in Hebrews 3, that's the heavenly calling. But what I'm saying is that speaking through Jesus also speaks the reality that he died for you. But if you just want to chunk it, you know, it's a healthy motivation because it should lead you to the cross. There's no other sacrifice.

Well, I think you're right. There's a finality here, you know. All right. So we're out of time. We'll finish this up in the overtime. And then next podcast, we've got the ladies coming on. We'll see what they think about all this. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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