Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 577 | Jase Says Technology Will Not Save You & How Love Intercepts Tragedy

Episode Date: November 6, 2022

Phil, Al, and Jase are joined in the studio by Mindy Lancaster, who shares her incredible testimony and how her lifelong friendship with Al and Jase first began. Al recalls being scared to death as a teenager just watching from the sidelines. Mindy recalls losing her family while cast before the public eye. Jase recalls a conversation he had with Missy about what to say when a loved one is going through something traumatic and discusses the people whose only hope is our technological advancement. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. We were having some technical difficulties there, Jay. We're all lined out now. We're all good. It's like that yellow truck you had. Just bang it on the radio, right? Phil's always funny. Anytime there's any technical difficulties, Phil says, and you wonder why I don't have a cell phone. or a computer. That's right. I mean, it's pretty good because he's always, you can pretty much say that.

Yeah. You do have technical difficulties almost every day. So that's why I say when I have a meeting or something online. I'm always like, they're telling me all this stuff to do. I say, whoa, whoa, let's just, let me just slow you down. Because I'm two degrees over from my dad. Well, they always laugh when I say that because they realize that you're like, I've sworn off all technology.

Well, how come that a lot of people believe that technology, is going to save the world because they think at some point we're going to figure out how to stay alive for thousands a year through technology. You are explaining my logic. So here's my point. I'm going to go deeper, Phil. Yeah. The deeper. As deep as you want to.

All right, I'm going as deep. So how come it's okay to have difficulties with technology, even though they believe that will be the salvation? and not believe that God created life to be difficult and still provide salvation. Yep. You don't want my kind of thinking out there because if you took my kind of thinking, the people in our audience right now would not be hearing what we have to say, and I think it's important. That means...

They hear that there is a way off planet Earth alive. Well, that means you lost the argument, though. That's right. I don't know. I didn't say I... You're mellowing. The older you get it, you're... I will posit a theory.

My last thing you want to do is become like me in a whole lot of areas. I posit... I do as I say, not as I do. So, Dad, I posited a theory based on something you said in the overtime segment of the last podcast that we're living shorter lives. So I posit the theory that technology will actually shorten our lives as it is currently doing not extend our lives. Well, we're actually going to live less

because of the stress. They said the death rate is going down. I mean, you know, I mean, not going down. Life expectancy. Yeah. I think death rate is still 100%. Huh?

Still 100% for humans. Death rate. But life expectancy. Yeah, you meant that the number the age is lower. It's getting lower. I just heard somewhere on the news that. Oh, yeah. Technology. But.

So maybe they're going to say, oh, Phil, was right out long. But last, last podcast you did say that you also heard on the news 50 years ago. That's true. That an ice age was imminent. That's what it said. And so. And now we're. But Phil, what I'm telling you is that the news media gets it wrong, just like technology.

We're just doing it at a very higher rate of speed with the Internet. It is, it's just the virus. volume is incredible and you can get it instantaneously. But now the problem is they just passed a law in California about misinformation, disinformation. Now, if you disagree with somebody, you can be held to account, like you can be go to jail, you know, all these laws. Yeah, but you can put out false news, which happens every day.

And you won't be held accountable. Then it's just like, oh, we got it wrong. Yeah, because I've pursued that. Yeah. So, Jay, so speaking of fake. news. You, a couple of podcasts ago, teased a big announcer. You said, I got a big announcement, but I can't tell you what it is. And so then we'd last podcast, we didn't even talk about it. So now, from our artist's perspective, you have, you have led everybody up to a big moment

that you have just done nothing with. You are incorrect. Sometimes in life, you need to wonder, to ponder, to meditate. I was allowing that process to. unfold. So we were just, we were ruminating. Yeah. So I told my wife about this and she, she didn't like it.

I said, I announced that I had an announcement. And she said, well, what is it? I said, well, I didn't tell them. She said, why would you do something so stupid? This is why I love to have

Missy on the podcast. I announced, the announcement was that I have an announcement. I just thought I'd never heard anybody doing such a thing. I thought I'd do it. And then we went, we went with the whole podcast,

I didn't think about it. Oh, I thought about it. If you had asked me, I would have, I would have divulged the announcement. So the announcement is, we're ready.

Drum roll piece. It's twofold. It's twofold in nature. The unashamed listeners have spoken. They have spoken. I've spoken. And I don't know what they did or how they did it. Because I'm pretty much.

I have been detached from technology, Phil. So I've been right there with you. Yep. But somehow the show Duck Family Treasure has been renewed. Oh. So. This whole show, just for new listeners, the reason there is the show Duck Family Treasure on Fox Nation is because Jace asked our audience, if we did this, would you watch it? And like, I don't know, it was 80%, 90%, it was a high number.

Thousands of people reached out. We went Roman gladiator style at the birthplace of this show. And so all across the world, people, does our, does the podcast go through the world? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got people. All across the world. All across the world. We converted them from Samoa.

Yeah, Samoa. People in their bedrooms and people at their jobs. The thumb was sideways and it turned up. So we did it. That was how the show got started. So now it's, we've done it again. Now, I have to admit, when I first heard it, I was the only person in our whole cast and family that was not excited.

We're actually doing it. Yeah, we're doing again. But I've grown to be excited about it. So now we're doing it. But that was the first part of the announcement. The second part is, and by the time this comes out, I will have already done this trip. I'm going to New York as soon as I leave here to announce that the first season, if you didn't see it, it will be made available for free.

So that's what we're going to announce. So it's twofold in nature. So, you know, I mean, I'm figuring that they're like, oh, we want people to watch the season two. And I think I made this reference in the overtime that a lot of legalistic people, listeners, they're also tight. I've told our audience before because I've gotten some pushback from some of you guys about it. Same with our Blaze TV, because that's also a subscription. But remember, everything's subscription now. You got Disney, you got Peacock, you've got all these different things of entertainment, Apple TV.

And so, and that's good, that's fine. People can watch whatever they want to. But when you talk about, in our case, a biblical narrative or in Jason's case, a great show about treasure hunting where there's a spiritual underlying theme on that show as well, it's not out of bounds to say, you know, five bucks a month is we can do that, you know, because conservatives have to live too, just like, you know, left wingers. Yeah. You didn't hear me pitching for that because I'm like, you know what, if people want to watch it, this is the, I don't. set those parameters. Right. They just, camera people show up and we go, we just go do what we do and they film it.

And it's a, it's a lot like this podcast. Most of the content is literally coming off the top of our head. As you're heading to the place to film it. Contrary to what you've read on, you know, previous shows that we've done. It, the plan is, there's no plan. We come up with it when we come up with it. I think the spiritual principles went out. I mean, you know, we love people because we love people.

I mean, it's, I was talking about grace, but grace, I mean, what Jesus does that's different from everything else that you can get into there, you know, that promises some kind of afterlife issue. I mean, Jesus comes and just says, I love you because I love you. I mean, that is grace. It's not based on your performance or how great you are, where are you from. Your color, your sex. No. So Jesus and us, as we go around and we find treasures and we learn interesting historical things, we're meeting people along the way, and we just love them because they're people.

And, you know, I'm sure they got checkered past, and we don't have time as we, because this is mainly a location show. you know we don't have time to get into the details of the we they're people and we we we try to love them and we find interesting things well i'm history i can speak i mean i'm a fan of the show because i like the show i like i love what y'all do on there it's it has some elements from our other show that i think are familiar to people but then it has some new stuff that i think is really interesting and i'm not a treasure hunter but it is i find it interesting i find myself interested in what y'all are finding and yeah i mean it's a hobby but it's all what I like about it.

And, you know, you get on the TV show the sped up version because treasure hunting is a slow, I mean, they allow us when we go these places. I mean, they give us a few hours to see what we find. Right. And, but, you know, in the truth, you just, you're not finding a whole lot of things because most of the stuff we're finding, people didn't want to lose it. So. Yeah, it's not easily found. Yeah.

And if somebody remembered where they lost something, they would have already dug it up or found it. But I think it'll be a good venture. There's your announcement. There's your announcement. Check it out. So while we're tying off loose ends, I brought up a few podcasts ago that I was going to baptize a guy up in Oklahoma because I happened to be there. And he's a listener. Forrest is his name.

I know he's listening. And the forest found Jesus at 62, almost got killed in a terrible accident falling out of a deer stand got, you know, pretty bad shape health-wise, but it turned him to Jesus through listening to our podcast. And so I had the pleasure of baptizing. So I asked y'all, you know, in sincerity about, did you have an idea about how to cover my finger up? And I got everything from cut it off to, you know, you need to have more faith. But Jace actually said something in his malignment of my spiritual character that he said something about you should saran wrap. Remember you said you said you surround it because you told the story about the doctor and the baptism whatever

and that's what i did i wrapped it saran rat and taped it and then baptized him dad which is you know you're right so i still think you should cut it off just at a protest just leave of faith so so yeah good advice there but anyway so for us welcome to the kingdom and uh and he's a really good good man took took a lot of pictures since we're answering listeners somebody said uh because i don't i don't I don't read your responses, but somebody who does told me, they said, boy, we had an interesting letter from a fan. All it said was, why does occasionally Jay seem like he's zoned out? Yep.

So I'll answer that. Because I'm filming another show in the middle of all this. There's no sleep. There's no. I only thought it was better you than me. we appreciate jace the fact that you're going to know the show and i appreciate it the fact that jace is doing it and we're not here's the human beings that you either sleep or you have daily zone out times that's right so on the last podcast we taught we told the story about

jesus healing the deaf guy and the mute guy that he could speak but not very well um which happens a lot when people have been deaf for a long time if they sort of forget how to put their words together. And so when we were doing it, I was thinking about a guy, dad, that was, I guess he's just a little bit older than me, but he was a student of yours back when you taught school before you started the duck haul business. But then he wound up basically being in our house all the time hunting with us, and he was deaf. And he could speak, but not very well. I thought of that same guy because he was at our house all the time. It turns out that his niece is an amazing woman with an amazing story.

And I actually thought about her being on our podcast back when we had Rucker on it. So she's here today. She just came in. So we're going to take a break. We're going to set up and we're going to have Mindy, Lancaster, join us on the podcast and get ready. You're going to love this story. So let's take a break. So we're back and we're welcoming to the lair to Unashamed Nation, Mindy, Lancaster, one of our favorite people.

We were just talking during the break about kind of how we first met you. I realized, so I mentioned your uncle. His name was Larry. Yeah. And he really kind of grew, because he was a high school kid, and he was kind of one of those kids that dad sort of took under his wing. Paul Stevens was another one. A lot of guys that just liked to hunt.

And dad became sort of a mentor, you know, for a lot of the people. And it was also for your uncle, which I guess first kind of introduced it to your, to the McElmore family. Your grandfather was one of our hunting buddies back in the day, too. He, you know, for the first few years, Dad, you would still go back up that we lived down here to Moss Lake. And, but you didn't obviously want to go back with old buddies. So you were developing new buddies. And your grandfather was one of the new buddies, you know, the ones that kind of were helping hold dad accountable that then later on he would do that.

So our families go way back. So welcome. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. So I want to know, I ask everybody that's a guest that's never been here to the lair. So you pull up outside.

what was your first because I told you, I generally told you where you're going to be and I left out details on purpose. What was your first thought? Because we asked you to come be on the podcast. What did you think when you pulled up out front? I said, it can't be in a silent. Like, we're going to be, I'm assuming it's going to be this building next to me

because it's a building. And I'm thinking, Al told me there's a door on the side. I don't see a door on this side here. So it has to be in this metal building. And I actually called Anna and was like, okay, tell me if I'm about to do the right thing. She said, yes, going through the door. I said, okay. And you see all the side by size of the thing.

I'm like, okay. I have to admit, because we do a podcast before where you got here. And so I opened the door to see if you were here. And you did have a bewilder. She was out there amongst all the decoys. There wasn't even a clean chair. So I was like, if I sit down, I'm not sure what I'm going to look. like when I stand up, so I'll just stand here.

I hate to say this. They just cleaned up out of it. Well, it's a process of cleaning up. It's better than it was. It's a hundred times better. It's the cleanest it's been in years. Oh, I was shocked. Still got a long ways to go.

But it's definitely better. So think about that audience. So you're trying to imagine because you only see us in this little corner in this room back here. But it's been better than it's been in years. And Mindy, you heard me to just say, there was nowhere to sit down. There was nowhere to sit down.

If I had my, you know, camo or something like that on, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Oh, Missy won't walk through it without an escort. Seriously. She asked me to walk her out the last time she was on the podcast. And I said, babe, you're safe here. She said, are you kidding? There's some kind of creature under every crevice. I will bet you money.

I was like, oh, I didn't think about the critters. I didn't think you were needing an escort. over bugs and but well she because she has issues with that and I have to admit I keep my stuff in tubs in my locker right because the black widows you know and all that is here so I don't want to you know put something on and then get bit you learn to shake your hip boots or waiters or jackets you shake them and brown recluse spiders falls I think I was better off before we had this conversation and by the way if a wasp falls out on your head we're just going to keep rolling so we're So Jason is usually pretty proficient with his hat to get them.

I'll tell you this, I had made this announcement in the first segment here about our show coming back. And I'm not, I think they filmed, because we started filming. And I had something land on my back, I guess, with a stinger. I think it was a horsefly. And just in a moment of insanity, because, you know, a horsefly hurt. But they hurt, yeah. And I had my shovel in my hand. And I literally put myself on the ground because I hit myself in the back with the shovel.

It's good that you don't put that on film. Oh, I'm sure if they filmed it, you will see it. And I, spoiler alert. If you say, what happened to Jay's, he hit himself. Did you get the horse flog? How I blacked out. I mean, it was one of those moments I didn't realize what I was doing. And I shouldn't have done it.

There's an art, though, to kill the Louisiana horseflies because you have to wait until he starts biting you. Yes. Because if you go for him before he starts biting you, he's gone. But he has that little hesitation. We had crossed that line, but I'm just. It was, I don't know why I thought of that. Just sharing this. It happens.

It happens. That's great. So, Mindy, we're just going to dive in because part of the beauty of the people we have relationship with. We go way back. You were 15, I think, the first time I met you. No, that was shocking when we were talking about that before because I was like, how many years was this? I mean, I was 21, I guess, 30 years. You and I were right out.

We were freshly minted interns right out of preaching school. Well, and I'd asked, Mindy, I said, I remember you been at our first house, but I wasn't sure what the, I mean, I knew what you're fixed to share, but I was like, how did we get so involved? those first few years and then you shared that and y'all was like how long was that? And you were like 31 years ago. I was like oh man I feel old in this moment. So I always say the beauty of being at a place for a long time and we've all been here in this community but also you know at our church and have these relationships is you get to see it's rare to get to see in a in a church environment a kingdom environment the growth of people yeah from when you first met them to now and because you know people move away and some of our closest friends and people that we help lead to Jesus and

mentor. They're all over the world now, you all over the country. But you've been here, Jerry and your sister as well. And so we forged that, you know, and we talked about in the break. It's that we forged our relationship and fire. So I want you to just tell a little bit your story. You go all around. You tell your story in a lot of amazing places. And so I wanted in our audience to have a chance to hear your story. And we'll just kind of jump in from time to So just kind of start into it. If I interrupt you, we'll take a break. We'll just keep going.

So just like what you were saying, what we were talking about earlier, about my uncle and about my dad and my grandfather, that's my dad's parents. And being raised here in West Monroe, both sits and my grandparents were very active in their churches. But we grew up kind of in and out of church. Things would go good, in church great, go bad. we would get back in church. And so growing up, we spent a lot of time in sports, a lot of basketball, a lot of softball, a lot of hunting, fishing, camping. And so we had a really close-knit family with more with my mom's side of the family at first.

And so there was a little division with them because of backgrounds in churches, Church Christ, Baptist, you know, back in the day, that was more of an issue. And so what, you know, I'm able to say that now. because we're on the other side of that. Right. And going through some of those hard things in our life, like I was five years old, we lost our home to a house fire. That was my first example of what it looked like to be in a family, a God family,

because I remember standing in my grandmother's doorway in her house and members of the church coming in and just dropping off sacks of clothes and things, because we lost everything. And then a few years later, our business caught on fire. I was probably 10, 11 years old. And so, you know, there were a few kind of tragedies that we had already been through, but nothing like what we were about to experience in my high school years. So I was 15 years old, September the 11th, 1991.

So that date that already resonates with our country already impacted my family 10 years prior. So 1991, we had just moved. I literally grew up through the woods to grandmother's house you go to my maternal grandparents. So literally we had a trail between our house and theirs. And our parents decided it was time for us to move in town. So we left the Stroser Road community and moved about 10 or 12 miles and lived close to North 7th. area close to Westman Road, Junior High, Westminster High School. I had just started my sophomore year. My sister had just started eighth grade at the junior high, and that's when tragedy struck.

My sister had actually gone to church with a family friend that night, and I had decided to stay home and do homework, algebra, which something people still laugh about that I chose to stay home and do homework. My parents were going to go home. I mean, we're going to our deer camp because we going to have a get together at our house. And that night, you know, 30 miles away from our home is a night my mom was murdered. And I remember sitting in my room, I was on the phone with a friend of mine and it was just after 9 p.m. or so. And I just got this overwhelming feeling like I was in tears. And so my mind went to, my parents may have had a car accident, like something may have happened. So you didn't, you didn't know anything. Did not know anything. This was pre-cell phones.

Right. Yeah. So, yeah, pre-cell phones. But you had an overwhelming. It was just a scent. I mean, in that, some dread. Yeah. See, this is this, I'm telling you, spiritual world. Let's take a break. So that night, as I'm sitting in my room, 10 o'clock rolls by, 11 o'clock rolls by, and I was wrestling and finally dozed off. My sister had come in, gone to bed. And just after, midnight is when Carl and Virginia, my dad's parents, come into our home, come into our room and just wake me up out of a dead sleep to tell me that our mom had been murdered. And so we, like I remember waking up, nothing, you know, no emotion, nothing, sitting on the couch, and all of a sudden I just screamed.

And it just brings me back to that moment sitting in front of that fireplace. My grandfather standing up. My grandmother just pacing back and forth, back and forth. And so we had to drive that night. My dad's uncle came to our home, picked us up and drove us down to Jackson Parish to Jonesboro, which is where it happened, to pick up our dad that night. And I remember it just being so dark and empty. but I also remember members of the church and people coming by. Nobody had a lot of words for us.

Nobody knew what to do or what to say. We stayed home for that first week. I remember I even went to the football game that Friday night after my mom's visitation because I craved community. My sister would choose to recluse. Like she would like to stay in her room. shut the door, stay in the dark. I needed people.

And that was just, we talk now about coping mechanisms and the way that we cope, freeze, flight, you know, all those things. And I was ready to, I didn't want to deal. I just wanted to continue to do what I wanted to do and be around my people. And during that next week is when our father was arrested. We chose to go back to school on that Wednesday, September the 18th. The day we returned to school, I was going to go home with a friend of mine, and we get to her house, and her mom said, Mindy needs to get to her grandparents' house, my maternal grandparents' house. And so I remember driving down to their house, and my grandfather and them met me outside to tell me that my dad had been arrested. And that's when I was deeply grieving, deeply hurting at that time with no hope.

But my grandparents within that next few weeks moved in with us, my dad's parents. And one of their stipulations that we had to understand was they were a part of the body of Christ. And we were going to go to church. And so within that next year, as dad prepared for his trial, we were introduced to WFR. That's when we first got. Yeah, that's where we all, because we knew Carl and Virginia and just the sweetest,

you know, we were, I was friends with them. And so then, of course, everybody heard about it. And you're like, now who is this?

What? Where? But I don't think I'd ever even seen you to my knowledge until, until y'all showed up, which just seeing y'all, even before we met, was overwhelming for us because it's unimaginable.

I mean, how in the world do you process this as a Tina? You were 15 and your sister was 13. She was almost 13. Her birthday actually is next week, October 25th. And so she was six weeks shy of her 13. And it was really interesting because just us looking back thinking about it. And I remember you guys. And so I think the reason we were so bonding so quickly to you and Jerry Ann was because,

you know, we felt like what a tragedy. I mean, like, you're in a situation here to lose both parents, obviously. Right. Even though your dad was there too. Right. And I didn't know your dad before this year and got to know him as well. But then obviously the story was big in our community because this doesn't happen. We were a small town, small community.

Obviously, there's not a lot of this that happened. So it was a big deal. It was a big deal in the community. But then we were kind of closing the ranks around you guys because we were like, we knew what you were going to face. going forward. There was a trial looming, everything, all that. So I just remember being geared up for Jason and I were interns at the time. We were young. We didn't know much. We're very green in terms of face. So that's one of the reason we didn't know what to say other than we loved you guys deeply.

Yeah, it was interesting. We were talking about going to the trial and I went a few days and, you know, I went for you and your sister, even though I didn't know you very well. And it was curious because people would ask me about the trial. And I was like, well, I really wasn't. listening, which was bizarre for P. I was like, but it does fit Jason's thing about zoning out anyway. Oh, it does. He rarely listens. Well, I think I made up my mind because, you know, that was at a stage of our life, Missy and I were, I had a list of my friends, and I, you know, you know this story well, but I was sharing Jesus with all my high school friends. And the first couple years, nothing happened. Right. But then when they started coming to the Lord, they started coming from

every nook and cranny and it just developed into a ministry at the time and so when this happened we were like we just felt led you know by the spirit i guess because y'all were young and uh and and innocent and all that you know you didn't ask for any any of this and uh and just unimaginable thing that can happen so we didn't know what to say but i said i made up my mind i'm like i'm not gonna worry about the outcome of this trial or what exactly happened. I'm just coming here to love on these two girls. That was my entire approach, which I realize everybody involved needed love, but that's just what, you know, that was my thinking at the time, which would eventually lead to us having a very profound relationship, you and, because you moved. And then I'm fast forward in the story.

we can back up, but you ended up moving right across the street from us, I guess, a couple of years after this. Yeah, it was about, yeah, about three, about three years after. Yeah. Let's take another break. So, yeah, so pick up the story basically at the trial. What kind of how did things go there? So my sister and I both were subpoenaed to testify.

So we had to testify on the trial, which meant we were not allowed in the courtroom. So for three weeks straight, we had to sit outside the courtroom. We had to be present. We had to be there. And so, like, I'm going back in my mind and I'm seeing these pictures. And it was, you felt like, you also felt like the weight of the things that I was about to say could affect the outcome, even though that had nothing to do with it. You were 15. Exactly.

Exactly. And your dad said he didn't do it. Yes. That still claims his innocence to this day. And so we, you know, there were things that happened. And I'll say this because I want to come back to this in a little bit is that there was a friend of mine at the time who was younger who had ended up having an affair with my dad that was coming out in the trial. And so to know that all of these things. were about to be public.

You know, we felt like our life was public enough, and I do praise the Lord that we didn't have social media back in that day. Yeah, my goodness, you're right. You know, people's opinions were enough for the gossip meal, let alone what people post on social media. And so I remember, like, our face being plastered all over the news, all over the papers. But I also remember kind of being tired of the cameras.

And I remember coming out of the courtroom. one day and they were right there and then we just wave in just being you know who we were and they kind of backed off after that because they realized like we were kids like they're like oh wait like these are children um and so care we carried that weight a lot for a while is that is there anything that i'm about to say that could you know push this jury one way or the other um but i remember just like what you're talking about jace and like how we met and But what meant a lot to me and that I remind people of is that, you know, words are encouraging. You can say words all day long, but nothing compares to the actions of people.

And actions is what influences. And so sitting, watching y'all sit in a stand, y'all came and watched me play basketball, you came and watched me play softball. Those things influenced me to know that you did not care about the guilt or innocence of my father. nor did you care about my opinion. You, Al, the family and the church wanted me to know that I was loved and that I was purposed. It wasn't about the guilt or innocence. And so no matter how that played out, y'all were going to be there, you know, for me.

And the day that guilty verdict came down and my dad was sentenced to life in prison with no parole. I remember being able to tell him goodbye that day. And also, just previously to that is when Mike Kellett, Jason Jenkins, Ryan Howard, they all shared the gospel with me, just as y'all had, you know, been laying this foundation for me. And I accepted Christ because I did not want that separation. But I also was ready to understand what it was like to grieve with hope. And so that played a factor over the next little bit, but still being so broken. and missing out on a relationship with Christ for a long time after that. And I'll say this because, and I was there today, the, when they had the pronouncement.

And, you know, I've done a lot of things in ministry of my life, but I've never been in a situation that was more tense, more just crackling intensity than that day in the courtroom. It was ringed by deputy sheriffs. we were given instruction that nobody could move. You couldn't get out of your chair. You couldn't do anything when the verdict came down. And when it was announced, your grandmother sort of fainted and fell out of her chair. My dad's.

And instinctively, you're right. And so we reached down and all of a sudden the deposition. So, I mean, it was like super intense. And then we helped lead you out and your family on the way out. And we get outside. There was an incident with your grandmother and some. else from the family. And literally, we were running across the courthouse lawn, running, carrying your grandmother, you, getting into cars, people are yelling, deputy sheriff's

tackling people right behind. It was like something out of a movie. Yeah. I mean, and I remember it, like you were describing the scene, I remember it, I mean, so succinctly every moment of it. And I think it was just, again, it was so much bigger than we were. And I never even thought about it. You guys having to deal with that as a teenager. Yeah. You know, I was 24 or five years old and was scared to death. Yeah. So I can only imagine how you felt about that. So, but it was, it was, it was, it was quite the day. So, so your dad was sentenced to you, he went to Angola, which is our sort of our big prison in Louisiana. He's still there. He's still there. We've done a lot of work with this. So sort of pick it up how then this impacted you going forward. I mean,

obviously we were here, you were here, part of us. Obviously, a lot of things. happened in your life, I think, as a result of so much of rage. It was bumpy. To say the least, right, Phil? Phil knows a little bit of that. He knows bumpy. I think you were the first person. I remember Missy and I, before you came over one night.

I mean, look, you talk about Fisher. The only picture I remember, of course, I'm fast forwarding two or three years, and you can back up and fill in the blanks. But I remember you staying in our kitchen one night because Missy and I had prayed and we invited you over. I was just like, what do you, what do you say? And Missy and I was having this conversation. And it was the first conversation that, that we had that I was questioning like,

how do we go about this? And I remember Missy saying, well, you say the same thing we always say. You know, we can't understand people's problems and how difficult it may be, but we know the answer. You know, his name is Jesus. she gave a good little. And I was like, duh, what was I think? So I just remember that moment and you came in.

I think we said, look, we're not going to, we're not going to claim to fix all your problems, you know. And that, I mean, you can take it from there. But I do remember that 30 years ago. So let's take our last break. Yeah, go ahead and kind of give us those years of kind of what happened from that point to go ahead. So one thing that I speak from experience is I tell everybody, please don't make life-altering decisions after tragedy. Great advice. Yes.

But one of the things I remember, Jason, I say this all the time when I'm asked, is what did somebody speak into you that you remember? And one of those moments was standing in y'all's kitchen. And I was not really tried not to play that victim mentality, but you know, you always ask those questions, why? Like, why did this happen? What happened? You know, why did this have to happen to me? And you said, why not you? Well, that was bold. Imagine that. But it makes me think. Which is what your wife said about it. I don't remember saying that exactly, but that does seem bold to say in the moment. I remember that red, There's a red countertops y'all had in the glass.

I mean, I remember standing in that kitchen and I thought, why not me? Like, why am I so much more important than the next person that tragedy shouldn't happen to me? It's also when I began to understand that the enemy is not prejudice. It doesn't matter your skin color, your classification in society. The enemy is not prejudice. He will come in any back door that's open. And that's when I began to sit on the other side of that. but I also did not take the tools within scripture either and apply those for a long time.

Which, look, looking back, is perfectly normal. I mean, there's a process of tragedy of this nature when you're a teenager. And from our perspective, your life has been incredible. I mean, it really has. But even the disciples, you know, we're studying with Mark. They're sitting here looking at the power of Jesus on the daily basis and, you know, About seven chapters in, he's looking around and say, hey, are your hearts that hard? Do you not understand?

Are you not hearing? So I think there is a process. And I wanted to say, I do think the actions that we took during that three-year period soften the blow of our words when we actually had the conversation too. And I think you knew that we loved you. Yes, 100%. I never thought there was only one instance later that I was called out by an elder's wife. But I ended up marrying at 18, which was not a good decision.

I thought this man was going to be in preaching school. You know, like I had all these aspirations, but I also thought he's broken two. What two broken people should be able to, you know, bind things together. Yeah. Yeah. That was a mistake. That was a mistake. Two broken people broke it more.

Yes. Yes. Yes. But the only blessing or the blessing that came out of that. was also that's when we got to spend more time with you and miss k was during that so i felt like that was where i built a stronger relationship with miss k and even though through those bad things and those bad decisions she would always call me and be like mandy and uh and she could relate to you i mean she understood she was married as a teenager and had a lot of issues but you know

i like to talk about that being that's that moment when the mother less became a mother is when i had my first child when I had grant. And, you know, terrible, abusive marriage. We left to go to Harding. We came back because I knew the only way that we could make it was because of this community. If we were able to do that, he just didn't want to do that and ended up being divorced. And what did I do again? Remarried and divorced again.

But through all of that, the community at White's Ferry Road continued to rally around me, hold me accountable. They would lead me. And then I felt like for a long time that they left me, but they were really trying to lead me out of where I was. Right. And so, so in the same feeling we talked about earlier was there because you and I joke about it now that I did all your weddings. Yeah. I mean, we have a relationship.

Yes, yes, yes. But at the same time, you just, you weren't quite ready yet to be where God needed you to be. And you were still healing and growing through a lot of stuff. And obviously some decisions you made in there. You'd think they're the right at the time. So did I, because we were there with you. But they didn't always work out. No, they did not.

Yeah. Well, trauma is hard, you know. I mean, look, because later on, even in my own life, you know, we have a girl with special needs. I remember Missy and I having to ask ourselves, why not us? Right. I mean, it took four months. Right. you would think we're giving you advice 20 years before.

Right. Why did it take so long to reach that conclusion? But the bottom line, I mean, life is difficult. I mean, it's filled with a lot of pain. And you see all these examples in the New Testament where that desperation led to people seeing a need for Jesus and just to surrender. Well, and that's what I like to, it's taken me a long time to come back around to that, of course. And that's what you're talking about is this journey, where we're able to sit here 30 years. years later and talk about all the things that you talk about these hard times and these hardships, but you also have to talk about every corner, God placed people in my life. At Harding, there were

women speaking over me at White's Ferry Road, at the dental office, at every aspect. God places these people. We also need to be in a position to look up and view and listen to what he's saying. And that's kind of what has led me through being involved in, you know, small group ministry with heartfelt, sitting at women's feet. I got called out by one of the elders' wives to come over and have tea and cookies. And this was after going through my second divorce. And I thought, she's ready just to hug on me and love on me. And she said, what are you doing? Marj Moran?

And I was like, what do you mean? What am I doing? She was like, this, you know, this isn't normal, Mindy. like you're 23 years old going through your second divorce like what do you want for your son what do you want and i thought wait i have a choice in this this isn't just happenstance like i have a choice to follow god's lead and so i needed to build a relationship with the lord um there's a difference in being a believer and being a follower and that's what i had to start what does it look like to follow Jesus and have a relationship with him. And so that started changing that trajectory

of where I am now. And aren't you glad somebody was bold enough to have a conversation like that? Which now you're that person and so many other people's life. Yeah. Yeah. Because it takes everything. It takes the nurture, but it also sometimes just takes somebody saying, hey, you've got to get after it. So that started you on the trajectory that eventually not only led you to a closer walk, but led you to Michael. Right. Yeah. And that's why that's why. I was going to say in the last three or four minutes tell, you know, because there had to be, you know, you eventually lead to a marriage where you're at now. And at some point, you, I guess, you can explain it, said, guy can use me to help other people. That was, so Michael and I just celebrated 20 years of marriage in May. So right, but Grant was five. And he was involved in church. He worked at Stilfab with Paul Stevens. He worked with Ken Bunn. And so that's kind of how that connection. You met Michael at WFR, right? We met at, yeah, at the dental office first, didn't realize he went to church.

Starlove introduced us. I got you. And I remember walking alongside him. Yes. Because of Paul and those guys, because he had gone through a really hard divorce. And I had a son. And I just remember spent a lot of time with Michael before it was Michael Mindy, just helping him, you know, through his brokenness. Mindy, you do bring one text really up close and personal.

people who marry will face many troubles in this life. And I want to spare you this, the Apostle Paul was just saying. So you're living proof of that. We all are. Troubles come and troubles go. No one ever makes it without some kind of trouble. Right. The Apostle Paul was right on that.

Well, he was. And Mindy's point is so well made now, looking back, is that until she got her relationship with Christ where it needed to be, the other relationships were going to continue to be a problem over and over and over. I had to quit magnifying the problems and magnify God. You know, Jesus talked to the woman at the well. She had a lot of problems. You know, how many times that she'd been married?

Five. And she was living with a guy that wasn't her husband. So that's what I was asking in the last couple of minutes. So tell us how that now, what you're doing now. Well, we'll talk more about that in overtime, too. But yeah, set us up for that. Okay. So when, so Michael and I got married.

and when I started realizing that, like, God could, we could have a legacy that changes for our children. And within two years, I was pregnant with Emery. And when I had my daughter is when I also realized, like, the relationship with a mother and a father in the home and being able to glorify God in our home and what that looked like and where that could lead us as a family. So I became more focused on a legacy for my children instead of being so focused on what I could do. That's good thinking. Yeah. So who asked you to start speaking? I mean, how did this?

So the funny thing was the first time I ever got asked to share my story was your mom, Ms. Kay, asked me to come and share it with one of her muffins groups. And so I wrote. What was your first answer? Absolutely not. I was like, you want what? And she was like, you've got to do this. And so, like, I wrote all this stuff down. And then when Michael and I walked through, we went through step study together.

Which is a celebrate recovery. And so you start writing your testimony down. But I also remember that first time that I gave it when she asked me to, I focused so much on the details, the pain that I missed a lot of the healing that I needed to share. And so that's when things started saying, okay, so the things that I've walked through, when the church and the community in Christ took a broken, twice-divorced, shamed-filled woman. And when you see it in scripture and then you see it played out in your life that Revelation's 12-11 by the power of the testimony and the blood of the lamb and then Genesis 50 in Joseph's life,

the enemy comes to, you know, make things bad for us. But when we give it all to the Lord, it can become something for the saving of many lives through Jesus. Yeah. So we're out of time. So many thanks for coming on the podcast. But we have what we call it an overtime segment. Because there are some stories that have happened, especially recently, that we have to tell. So those of you that want to follow us over, it's blazTV.com slash unashame. Remember, there's a promo code feel. You get 10 bucks off right now off the subscription. Because God has just worked out some pretty amazing things that you've been able to experience now in ministering to other people, which I find fascinating. So we'll get into those in our overtime. We'll see you on the other side. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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