Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 579 | Phil Cracks Up While Making Fun of Jase’s Word of the Day

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Jase shares his new vocabulary word, and Phil can't resist the urge to crack a joke that gets everyone laughing! Al discusses the tale of three mountains and Moses hiding away in the cleft of a rock as God's presence passed by. Zach talks about the way Christians do not view earthly kingdoms as enemies, but seek to win over hearts and understanding for reconciliation. Al steal's Jase's thunder by unknowingly making his point for him. And Jase makes a fascinating point about the unveiled faces of Christians being made into the likeness of Jesus. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm still down here in Florida, Zach's birthplace. I guess were you born here, Zach in Florida? Yeah, I was born and, well, I lived in Louisiana for a little while, but not back and forth, but between Louisiana and Florida. That's my, that's my stopping grounds. You're almost there. So there's a little town, north of where you're at in Tallahassee in Georgia and the name of it is

Dasher, Georgia, that my family founded in the 1800s. So there's a little factoid. We got a town named actress. Just north of you. I never knew that. I may, if I have time, I may have to go by there and see if I can see some of the old dashers.

That explains a lot. Yeah, it's right south of Valdosta. So we got some Georgia roots in there. And it's actually funny because our family came over in 1732 from Salsberg. And they pledged allegiance to the Queen of England because they were Lutherans that were being, I guess, persecuted. And there was whatever going on with that. And so they fled and established a church in Ebenezer, Georgia, Savannah area. And that was in the 1700s.

there's yeah there's like a lot of history then they migrated down to south georgia or i guess that austa area in the 1800s so yeah a lot of history there for the for the for the dasher crew but that's interesting that that the and it's a religious like a spiritual history uh because i never knew any of that i mean that so that goes back where did you say the original nation is Salzburg in austria yeah in austria um and so they they were they were Lutheran uh great great whatever grandfather was a Lutheran pastor. And it was Weisenbakers. It's called the Salisburg Society is what they're called.

If you go around like Tybee Island area, Savannah, that whole area. And so they came and set up shop in Ebenezer. And yeah. And then one of my great, great grandfather's Herman Christian Dasher, somehow got hooked up with the Stone Campbell movement around that time that was happening. And so then they were in the early days of what's called the Restoration Movement, which is the church that I used to be a part of, Church Christ, Christian Church, Disciples Christ.

So yeah, a lot of history there. It's pretty cool. We'd love to go down there. Typically, Austrian people enjoy artistic talents such as music and craftsmanship and value deep and meaningful conversation rather than shallow, small talk. Well, that's a tribute to you and your dad, Yeah, Zach. Well, I just, that was the first thing that popped up.

And since Zach has tendencies that likes to go to deeper waters, even if he doesn't really understand what he's talking about, it's deep. Every time he, and every time he does that, he doesn't have to win himself over because I already have come to a conclusion. He's smarter than I am. So is his dad. Well, I'll introduce a new concept for y'all. This may be a new word, that the danger of that since I now know Zach's history is the danger of causing M-G-O.

M-O-C-O-R-M-E-G-O. M-E-G-O. Like you're hitting the road? No, there's a condition that happens to a man sometimes. This, no, it's not me go in that. A lot of times, look, when someone, someone is talking, it represents my eyes glaze over. So you go. The danger of listening to deep conversation or articulations of time is a me go where your eyes glaze over.

Hundreds of preachers have made an art form out of that. They're talking and the audience are Migos. The people that are against us are making the claim that we are, in fact, unhinged. Well, now you can throw in Migo. When you're talking, their eyes, my eyes glaze over. Migo. Migo. Migo.

Feel free to use that day. But always remember, if you look at your audience and it looks at, looks like their eyes were glazed over, you might are to simplify the message. Oh, what's happened before? I mean, not very often, but there's been a couple times when I've preached and I looked out and I thought, this is, this thing is. And I couldn't get out of it either. Yeah.

I remember. Now you have a phrase. I didn't come up with that. I heard a guy do a sermon one time and he was talking about preaching to the heart of the matter and simplifying things. and he brought that up. He said, because you never want to have Migo preaching where the audiences' eyes are looking at you,

but they're not getting it. Plus, you're not getting any response, good or bad from them. They're not listening. No. I mean, Jesus addressed that. You know, people are hearing but not understanding. Migo. I believe that most sermons ought to be scaled down

about 20 or 25 minutes. That's what I think. But you've preached for an hour several times in your church. It's a way better all. 25, 20, 25 minutes. No, I agree. I've come to that conclusion. That's what I think.

That depends on the setting. You know, I think it depends on your setting that you're in. And some conversations, you know. And it depends on the content. You know, if you're preaching Jesus and you're being practical, I'll listen to you for an hour. Yep. But if you're talking about things that don't.

matter and my eyes are glazed over. What does your computer say as far as the participation rate on how people can, they, they're good to keep their mind on what you're talking about, you know, what's, what's the word for it? The attention span, the average attention span? Yeah, attention span. What's the average attention span for the American public? It's got shorter. I bet it.

Jace has got his phone out. Well, Dad, I think that that's about seven seconds, you know, for the typical male. But you didn't, yeah. No, Al, you're off by 1.25 seconds. The average human has an attention span of 8.25 seconds. So with that bit of information, a bull rider is actually the perfect thing to pursue. Well, according to the words of Jesus, that's, that's, that's, about right.

I mean, they, but you know, it's funny, because I look at the analytics on our, on our podcasts a lot, and this one and,

ironically, the duck car room, have very high durations, about 98% of the people that listen to this podcast, get to the end of it, which is very rare

in the podcast world that people stay for, you know, 45, 50 minutes, and listen to the whole thing. So we actually have very, very, very high duration rates on this podcast. I think maybe it's because it's a little more conversational. And we'll usually start with like what we're doing now, a road to nowhere.

You know, it's kind of like we're just pontificate and then we get into the Bible at some point. The cold open was born. I see multiple articles that say the best time for a speaking session is 20 months. minutes. That's basically the pulse. I didn't know that was written, but does that kind of agree with what I said 20, 25 minutes? Then wrap it up. I mean, what they say, though, is they have, this one group has it broken down. And they're like two years old, it's four to six minutes. That's all you're ever going to get at optimum. Three years old, six to eight minutes, four years old, eight to 12, five and six, 12 to 18. It just kind of goes up to adult is capable.

32 to 50 minutes. But they're like at 50, somebody call 911. Yeah. Shut it down. Yeah. You know what I do? You know what I've been doing?

So if I go and if I'm, I want to listen to someone to have a speech on YouTube or particularly on YouTube. I try to find it on YouTube if I can. What I try to do is get it on some kind of platform where they have the option. for me to increase the speed of their talk. So if on YouTube, I can, most people, I go about two times. So if it's a 40-minute talk, I listen to the whole thing in 20 minutes. I did the same thing with audible books and podcasting.

I like speed it up. I don't know why I do that. You like make them talk faster? Yeah, it's like a gear. Like you can just, like you click on the icon. it says what playback speed do you want and that I increase the speed so that I can consume more content which may be a problem I don't know is the icon does it look like a chipmunk I mean because they tried to come up with an album and that was a disaster they're like we're

going to make a song and we're going to speed it up but it sounded like chipmunks singing did it work oh yeah they made a lot of money but I couldn't listen to it because it sounded like I don't want to hear Chipmunk sing. I like humans. Yeah. I think what the technology does, it just gets rid of the space in between. Like there's like spaces in between. Yeah.

And it gets rid of that. So it doesn't really like increase the pitch or, but you could consume a lot more content. Yeah. Well, I was only joking. Well, I'll give you the, we mentioned this before, Jay. I'll mention what our mentors told us when we were training to speak before audiences. We've mentioned Carl Allison many times. He's from Oklahoma.

He said if you hadn't struck all in 20 minutes, quit boring. And I thought that was pretty good line to your point to add about 20 minutes. And then Bill Smith, another guy that was our mentor, he said the brain can endure only what the posterior can stand. That's a lot of truth in that. Carl Allison also said if you, if you haven't said what you needed to say in 25 minutes, go home and write a book. All right. Well, that was our tent had a cold open, I guess. What's funny is we're making fun of people and we can all talk in, you know, at nauseam.

So it's kind of, we need to be self-deprecating here. We have that problem. Yeah, because like Zach said, we're talking, we're doing podcasts. We're doing an hour of content four times a week. So we're doing a way more than that. But to your points, and I just wanted to give a little thanks to Unashamed Nation, you guys stick with us.

And look, I'm always amazed. When I meet people out here in the fruited plains, which I will again tonight, I mean, they're like, I listen to every podcast. Now, I've even run up on people that said, I've listened to all the podcast more than once. And I was like, well, God bless you. I don't know, I don't know what you do for a living.

But a lot of them, like, working, they're truck drivers. A lot of them are work in a factory where they, you know, clean up all day. And so they get the headphones in. I mean, it really is pretty amazing that how much content's going out there. But we appreciate you guys for soaking it in because we love putting it out there. Well, this kind of ties in with what we're going to talk about from my angle. We don't know what we're going to talk about on our takes from the transfigure. But we left off chapter 9, verse 2, which I said should have been 9-1, but that's a talk for another day.

But I want to read this before we take our first break. And it says, after six days, Jesus took Peter, James, and John with him and led them up on a high mountain where they were all alone. There he was transfigured or transformed before them. His clothes became dazzling white, wider than any one in the world could bleach them. and there appeared Elijah and Moses, and they were talking to Jesus. Peter said, Rabbi, it's good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters, one for you, one for Moses, one for Elijah. He did not know what to say.

They were all so frightened. Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud. This is my son, whom I love, listen to him. suddenly when they looked around they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus it's a weird story let's take a break on that the phrase listened to him was an addition to when god spoke you only spoke two times in the gospels when Jesus was baptized this is my son in whom I'm well pleased whom I love it's my son who I love and with him I'm well pleased well here he says this is my son whom I love listen to him and the other gospels actually put in that with whom I'm well pleased so he added he added

that listen to him mistake free speech yeah truth embodied you don't know what God's thanks listen to him now why did he say that so think about it you have moses who represented the law what when people when it come when it came to knowing what god wanted through the law what did you do you listen to moses when it came to prophets will we have a representative for elijah when you know what god how he's speaking to men through prophecy will you listen to someone like Elijah. But now we have an announcement from God. And Hebrews 1-1-3 really helps understand this point. And the first two had made mistakes. Well, they had. Some of the things they said. But they had also, they had a lot in common. You know, they were, I think they were the only two that actually did

hands-on miracles in the Old Testament. Now, y'all fact-checked me on that. But they did do powerful things. And so now it's almost like, it is like, God is saying now, I want you to listen to him. Well, just think about those three disciples sitting there listening to this. It's kind of like final word. They're having trouble listening to the things Jesus is saying because we just had an instance where Jesus said, I'm going to die. In three days, I'm going to rise again and Peter said, oh wait, let me rebuke you on that. He's not listening to what he's saying. So now we have an encounter, which to me clears up a lot of prophecies. You can go to Malachi 4, 4 through 6 and read that as you read this. And now you're beginning to see all

those passages like in Luke 24 where Jesus came to fulfill. everything written in the law and in the prophets. That's Luke 24. That's a lot. Sounds like to me, that's what the announcement is about. And there's a glimpse here that, oh, you thought somebody who's put their faith in God were dead, you're now seeing a glimpse that it's not over. I like it, Jays.

Let's read the Valachi passage. I want to start in one instance in chapter 3, too. Behold, I'm coming to send my men. messenger and he will clear the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek, this is what he's going to do, will suddenly come to his temple. And the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts. And then in chapter four, he says, for behold, a day is coming, burning like a furnace and all the arrogant and every evil doer will be chafed. And the day is coming. What he will set.

them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who fear my name, the son of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the souls of your feet on the day which I am preparing, says the Lord of Host. Now think about what's going to happen here. You say, well, who is going, what's going to, what's going to burn that is going to destroy the root.

It says here, the root, you have neither root nor branch. I think the coming of the kingdom, you have to, I mean, this is a big part of it, is what is going to happen with the destruction of Jerusalem in 80, 70. And you had these prophecies in the Old Testament that are coming to fruition here. Furthermore, when you look at the book of Exodus, listen to this language here whenever Moses went on the mountain to receive word from God. It said a cloud. Let me see here.

The Lord said, come to me on this mountain. And so he got up and he goes onto the mountain. And then it says, then Moses, verse 15 of Exodus 24. Then Moses went up to the mountain and the cloud covered the mountain. The glory of the Lord rested on Mount Sinai. And the cloud covered it for six days. On the seventh date, he called Moses into the midst of the cloud. And then he appeared to Moses and did that there.

You turn to Mark chapter 9, when Jesus goes up on the same mountain, what does it say happen? It says Mark chapter 9 at the Transfiguration, it says that he went up on the mountain. Cloud appeared and enveloped them. Well, and the cloud always represented the presence of God in the Old Testament. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the point there, right? because you turn to Mark 9, 7, then the cloud formed and overshadowed them, and the voice came out of the clouds. This is my son.

Listen to him all at once they looked around and saw no one with them except Jesus alone. And I mean, I think that to your point, Jason, that's the thing, is that this is the coming of the presence of God, that God incarnate on this this Mount of Transfiguration. it is that all of the deity is dwelling in bodily form. You have this man, Jesus, in whom is the fullness of God in a moment that you actually see His glory. You see God's glory on this mountain, just like Moses saw God's glory on that mountain when he met with him. They kept the matter to themselves discussing what? rising from the dead meant. Well, he said before, he said in verse 9 that I didn't read,

well, it says eight, suddenly when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus, which is another aspect to this that we don't discuss. Okay, supernaturally, one guy that died, Moses, and another guy that just left, are now years later, hundreds of years later, having a conversation with Jesus, but they also disappeared. So when you think about the benefits of a resurrected dwelling,

the fact that we can talk and disappear and radiate and have time no longer have effect on us, you're no longer aging, all these principles are very appealing to me as a human being. The resurrection of Jesus, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anybody what they had seen until the son of man had risen from the dead, and then they kept the matter to themselves discussing what is rising from the dead. They still have not connected the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. They still haven't got it. And then it goes on to say, and they asked him,

why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first? Well, Jesus replied, to be sure, Elijah does come first and restores all things. Why then is it written that the son of man must suffer much and be rejected? But I tell you, Elijah has come. and they have done to him everything they wished just that it is written about him. And so then you see in some of the other parallel passages that he was referring to the spirit of Elijah coming through John the Baptist. Yep. Yep. Let's take a quick break.

I love that point, though, that Phil was getting out, that they didn't understand. I think that's the whole thing is unfolding. they couldn't quite get like what is he talking about here you know like the again the context we're thinking political power we're thinking power in in conventional wisdom of humanity what does that mean when he says don't you know you order them not to tell anyone what they had seen again they had no context until the son of man rose from the dead we read that just like we read about taking up the cross in mark eight 34 we'd be that oh yeah I know what that means they did not know what this meant. That's why they said they seized upon that statement, disgusting with

one another, what rising from the dead meant? They're like, what is he? Like, what, like, what's he talking about? They couldn't grasp that. They couldn't grasp it. So even Peter's confession, you know, that you're the son of God, if you really think about it, the only person in the entire Bible, or the first person, rather, the first person in the entire Bible to confess Jesus as, as the son of God post, with the idea that he was going to be crucified in mind was a random soldier after his crucifixion who said, a Roman soldier said, clearly this was the son of God. It's like everything is coming to that moment, like that one moment of that Roman soldier who was the first person in history to get it.

Think about that. The first person in history to understand what Jesus is talking about here. was a Roman soldier who was at his death and probably participating in killing him, looked up and saw the son of God hanging on a cross, and he has the right conclusion. This crucified man, surely he was the son of God. I think that's what's hard what they're getting at here. And that's why when they're trying to say,

are you John the Baptist then? I'm sorry, John the Baptist. Are you, are you the Elijah, right? Because the Old Testament says that there's going to be a prophet like Elijah coming, preparing the way of the Lord. So is that who you, so you're Elijah. They thought John, this is why they thought John the Baptist was Elijah. Again, they're not understanding what's happening here. And Jesus is like, he's dripping it in.

He's just dripping in this kingdom message. And they're going to get it at some point, but they don't get it quite yet. Pretty cool. But I want to say this. This is one of the few instances. where we do have a later clarification on what went down. And I'll just pick out this one little phrase that we usually laugh at is when Peter said, should we make some shelters or some tents?

What verse is that where he said, it's good. Yeah, let us put up three tents. And look, this is obviously referring to, because he had probably heard the story of Moses on the mountain. where this happened and they built shelters, you know, because you couldn't look on the face of God, right? Well, Peter later, he did get it because when he wrote a letter called Second Peter, he refers to this. And if I pick it, if I pick up in verse 18, I want you to notice the similarities here. A chapter. Second Peter 1.

I think that's, no, that's 13. This is real small print. I think it is right to refresh your member. Start over. Second Peter 1.13. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body. That's a reference that he's had familiarities with. Because I know that I will soon put it aside.

the tent as our Lord Jesus Christ has made it clear to me and that I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things so now he's got he's got that figured out yeah so watch what he says we didn't follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ but we were eyewitnesses of his and he describes this as his majesty for he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the majestic glory saying, this is my son whom I love with him I am well pleased. And we also know that he said, listen to him. So how do we know this is the mountain and not the baptism? Because he says,

we ourselves heard his voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. Yep. I just think that's fascinating. It's stuck with him. And now he got it. There was a glimpse that it's not over. This is a tent. Don't worry.

There's something he's using the best word he can think of and the best way we can describe it as majesty. Yeah. Which is I'll look that up how, what we think of that now. Well, while you're looking that up, let me make this point that that when we, when we, consider what's happening here. I got these two words that start with R, and both of them are being accomplished here. One is righteousness.

I thought, what is the point of Moses? What is the point of the law? The law was meant to bring righteousness, which it never did, never could. And then what was the point of the prophets to bring another R word, revelation, righteousness and revelation. And in 1 John, I wrote this down,

1 John 114, or not 1st John 114, John 1 verse 14 Before you read it, I want to define majesty because I think they got this one right. The first thing that came up was royal power. Yeah. I love that,

which is indicative of, that's kingdom language, right? Exactly. That's kingdom language. Royal power, that is kingdom language. And there's a new kingdom that's coming that is going to be fulfilled in Jesus, particularly in terms of how we get right with God, how we're made righteous.

Moses was the law, didn't work, and Jesus it does. Moses, listen to what it says here about Moses and Jesus and John 1. It says, and the word, this is verse 14, and the word, talking about Jesus, became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory. Glory is the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about him and cried out, this is he, this was he of whom I said, he who comes after me has a higher rank than I,

for he existed before me. For of his fullness, we have all received in grace upon grace. Verse 17, for the law was given through Moses. So the law, and Moses is here, right? He's here on the mountain. Why is he there? Because the law was given through Moses. grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Think about that moment. This moment when Jesus is in his transfiguration with Moses, what's happening here is it's a declaration, hey, Moses is like, I brought the law, and then Christ is like, yeah, and grace and truth is realized through. That's why listen to him takes on a lot of meaning. Oh, I zeroed in on that listen to him. And you think about... Hold on.

Hold on. Let's take a quick break. You think about in religions and churches today and people who try to put themselves under law or get some prophecy outside of Jesus just within themselves about direction. We've, he's already, he's already addressed this. Yep. Don't put yourself under law. Don't, you don't need any word from. God outside of Jesus.

That's why it said, you know, through him, it's always yes. The promises are fulfilled with yet. Listen to him. Hebrew is one, one through three. In the past, you know, he talked through prophets in various ways. A lot of different guys. But now

Yeah. But now he speaks to us by his son. That's verse two. And appointed him heir of all things and through whom he made the universe. He's the radiance of God's glory. You don't think there wasn't some radiance going on and some glorious there? And the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by what? His powerful word.

That's why you listen to him. His word is power. Yep. Hey, I love that. I mean, this is, what is the book of Hebrews? I thought the same thing, Jason, I was studying this. So, I mean, if you just said, hey, can you just condense the entire book of Hebrews into a moment? I would say, yeah. It's called the Mount of Jesus' Transfiguration. That is the whole book of Hebrews in a moment. And when I gave the whole thing on Moses being about righteousness and Jesus fulfilled that righteousness. But the prophets, that was Elijah. What was the role of the prophet?

The prophet, you're supposed to listen to the prophet because they're going to give you revelation from God. They spoke on behalf of God. And so when you read that part in verse 7, when he says, this is my son, listen to him. This is how I heard that. And I think this is how he said it. This is my son, listen to him. It's like, it's, it's, the emphasis is on him.

It's a transferal of, hey, he is, all this prophecy stuff. The prophets are all pointing. It's over with the prophets. Yeah, the prophets, they're over. The last one to speak was Malachi. And what did he say in chapter three and four? And he was like, hey, there's like, somebody's coming. Somebody's coming.

And then there's this moment. That's why in the Book of Mark, I mean, this is the, this is kind of the climax of the Book of Mark. This is that, the arc in the middle of the Book of Mark. This is where it's all happening here that there's like this, okay, wait, wait, something different, something bigger. Like, something is going on here because Jesus is both, he is, he is the realization of grace and truth. Right. He is, Moses brought the law. Elijah was the prophet, and Jesus is standing right there in the middle of him.

He said, okay, boys, this house is going to go down. And he is the summation of all of it. Great point. And I want to read the verse I was reading Hebrews 1. I want to just finish that thought when it says, after he provided purifications for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty in heaven. The same word is what we're reading now. Royal power.

So he became superiors. superior. And then we just studied Hebrews. I'm in Hebrews 1, 3. He's, he's superior to angels. He's superior to Moses. He's superior to the prophets. Which is a summation. You know, we just backtracked and went to Mark, but we see how we got here in this moment. Now, I have real something exciting I wanted to go through, and this is a subpoint. Before you make that point, I wanted to share one other thing that these three had in common that was really a You know, I call it a tale of three mountains. Zach alluded to it a minute ago.

When Moses was on Mount Sinai, you remember God told him, he said, I'm going to put you in the cleft of a rock because my presence is about to come by. And you can't look at my presence. It's more than you can do. So he stuck him in this little hole in a rock and the Lord came by at this moment when the law was coming. You get to First Kings 19 right after the Mount Carmel dust up with Elijah and all these priests, false priests were killed to your point, Zach, the false narratives were killed so that the truth could come out.

Elijah almost had a depression. He had a 40-day, you know, fast, and he said, you know, I'm just ready to go. God took him up on Mount Horib and said, my presence is about to pass by. And then out of that, he tells him what he needs to do. And I thought it was really amazing because both of them experienced the presence of God in their vernacular, which was, of course, prophecy in the law. And now they're getting to experience it on this sacred mountain, as Peter calls it, with Jesus who was there on both of the other instances.

So all three of them now, the presence of God is being shown out in this moment. So there was so much going on. It was really powerful. That's good. Every once in a while, me and you, you said, before you make your point, I want to make a point. And it was the exact point. that I was going to make. However, I want to read to take it a little further,

because I just want to put an exclamation point on what you said. I was literally going to the same verses. But I want to read them because I think it made a more powerful impact on me when I read it. And you've done the background by what you just said. And if you didn't get what Al said, rewind. So in verse 20 of Exodus 33, there's a, clarification it says but he said you cannot see my face for no one may see me and live god said that to moses he was in the presence but he couldn't look at him and wouldn't you know it

that in first kings 19 that you referenced in verse 13 the same idea is is discussed it says man this this writing is so small it says When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went and stood out at the mouth of the cave. Now, the reason I'm making such a big deal about this, about the face, is because when you fast forward to 2 Corinthians 3 and say, what's this? Well, what's this going to do with me? The Lord, verse 17, is the spirit. because all this is done by the Spirit's power, but you've got to remember Colossians 2,

all the deity lives in bodily form in Jesus. But in 317, the Lord is Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom and a lot of power. I mean, you're free from the laws of nature. And we who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory are being, well, look at here. The same word that we are reading transfigured, the metamorphosis,

we're being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. But I want to make this point. Here's these two guys. Hold on. Before you make that point, let's take our last break. Here's these two guys. One of them's been dead for 100 years, and the others have been MIA.

and they, in this presence of God and being used by God, they couldn't look at his face. And now we have a moment in time, hundreds of years later, where they are looking at the face of God. Pretty amazing. They're looking at Jesus. He has a face.

Now it's radiating and it's bright, but they're looking at it. And that's what Jesus brings to humanity, access to God on a face-to-face basis, which is... Great. thinking. It's amazing. It's like you should line up. Chase, you are a lot smarter. And you look. I just connected the dots that's here.

Well, I think, I think it's too. This big question kept coming up when you were earlier quitting out of book of Hebrews and Jesus was the kind of the summation of all of this. He was better than, he was superior, the superiority of Jesus to the law, to the prophets. And now you've added in a third component that Jesus is the way that we're going to become able to access the presence of God. I would argue, too, that Jesus is in the book of John actually kicks that further and says, not only do you get the presence of me, it actually gets better because the Holy Spirit's coming and there's going to be something even bigger. God's going to be in you, which is what that 2nd Corinthians 3 passage is talking about, the endowment of the Holy Spirit. But I say, you know, the question is why?

Like, why is Christ better than the prophets? Why is he better than the law? And why is he better for us accessing the presence of God? And I think this is the conversation they were having in Luke on the mountain. The reason why I was answered in Luke's account of this. It's because of his coming departure. It's because of the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus. See, the gospel is why he's better.

The gospel is like how, well, he's better because he's God. But in the context of what the law and the prophets and all that was trying to accomplish, that's the whole book of Hebrews. He's better because he's a sacrifice that will actually work. How in the world are the blood of goats and bulls going to really take away my sin? Those animals aren't even made the image of God. They don't even bear his image. So how are they going to provide any real atoning sacrifice?

sacrifice. So I don't just get something that bears the image of God that takes on the sins of the world. I get God himself who takes this on. And that's the part that's weird about this Mount of transfiguration. Again, it's the paradox that God is glorious. And then he said, but here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to die. I'm going to be buried in a tomb. And I'm going to be raised three days later. And they are starting to get it. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say what was now unapproachable because of the power of God and the sin of men and mankind. That's why Jesus bridged the gap. We always, we got the part about the sin because he was the atoning sacrifice.

But I think we missed the whole point of why he became a man is so that we could actually see. And because you, you know, I don't think it's. it's an accident that those two passages, the reason I wanted to read those, is because it made a point saying you couldn't look at the face of God. And now, hundreds of years later, they're looking at the face of God. Well, there's got to be a reason for him to make a point about that. It became relatable. That was the point of the atonement. The point of the atonement is so that we can see the face of God. That is the point of the sacrifice of Jesus.

That's why when Phil, we're going to put this out at some point. We were talking about it earlier. We had a great idea on his last sermon where he just gave the resume of Jesus. And I don't think he didn't even read scripture, right? Or just read descriptions of Jesus for 20 minutes. He did the same thing I did. He took the dots and just put them on a piece of paper. I love how you said that.

I haven't listened to it yet, Phil. But I love how you, when you were explaining it, you said something that I think was like, I don't know if you intentionally meant to do this or not, but it was the perfect ending to all of, he's the alpha, the omega, the beginning, the end,

the sovereign king, whatever, all the descriptions that you gave. And then it all kind of stops at a point. And then you said, and he's my friend. Yeah. And he's my friend.

I think, okay, that's what, that's what this is. That's the kingdom. No, I agree. The bigness of God.

Did you read all of that resume? And at the end of it, you say, and he's my friend. Well, Phil made the point that he felt bad because he forgot that. I wrote it down. I think the Holy Spirit intervened and made you forget.

So then when you clarified, it became that much more powerful. That's what happened. Because it's like, and oh, yeah, he's our friend. Yeah. Which is the paradox of the mountain of transfiguration. After reading, if you reject him, you have rejected your only chance. Now the only thing I'm wanting to,

because Zach may be right about, because we're just speculating on what they're talking about, but the fact is you now have a scene where there's three guys in semi-human, semi-supernatural, semi-spiritual heavenly form having a conversation. Well, I think the greater point is not what they're discussing. it's the fact that they are discussing in this form.

Yeah. It's in a transformed form with the ability to be friendly. Well, that's what's appealing to me. Because trust me, I don't care what we're talking about. I just want to be in the conversation. Yeah. It adds up to the word profound. You know, Zach brought up the tombstone reference.

earlier or maybe in the previous podcast they had the Vendance right and they had the member win oh Doc holidays or whatever he said I got lots of friends and he's like I don't and they're like why are you doing this and he's like because he's my friend it's like you can't have these moments in movies that we enjoy without somehow transforming it into something that we get from the Bible and what Jesus represented. You know, it's like you can have, I mean, we want vengeance and everybody wants revenge on this planet. But the only way you can justify it and make it a movie that has a warm, touching vibe

to it is if we're doing it because we're friends. I wonder whether they got that idea is what I'm saying. But Jays, Jays, when you think about it, can law and prophecy bring friendship and relationship and love? No. Can either one of those bring that to the table? I mean, they are what they are. They were, God used it, how he used it.

But you can't, it all came down to the love of God and Jesus in particular that changed everything. And I think that, you know, the, remember the audience. The audience here is Peter, James, and John, and ultimately us. But in that moment, it was those three guys. And what was Jesus trying to get them to see? It wasn't you need to build a tabernacle over each of us. It's relationship.

It's friendship. It's just. what we've been talking about. It's what's going to advance the kingdom. I think it's what separates what God did through Jesus and the Holy Spirit from all other religions. Because look, when you go back and look at a study of religion just the beginning of time, whenever they would come up with these ideas, and there were many of them, where they would say, I'll sacrifice my daughter or my son to the gods so that we'll have good favor. And look, they did that. And people looked at that as just like barbaric and unbelievable. And so when people

encounter Jesus, they're like, well, he's doing the same thing. No, it's different. God didn't ask us to do this. And you notice when he said, you bring your own cross, he wasn't asking us to sacrifice somebody else. God said, look, I'm the sacrifice. I'm going to provide Jesus as the sacrifice. And you said, well, how do we follow? What do we have to, do we have to give up? He's like, you got to give up yourself. That's what separates this from all other religions, and I think it's spectacular. Yep, that's it. And also, we're running a promo code special right now.

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