Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 583 | Jase Explains Why Grace Is a Verb & Phil Has a Heartwarming Realization About Miss Kay

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Jase talks about how you can't know the person you just married until you have stayed married! Zach discusses the difference between intelligence and self-improvement and the tools to adjust yourself by letting God love you through people. Jase says that you will have to be prepared to give and receive grace with your spouse daily, because the reality of day-to-day life is very different from the marketing you do to attract a spouse. Al calls marriage one of the greatest gifts God gave humans and illustrates how much fruit can come of it — and why the evil one will viciously attack it. And Phil has a heartwarming realization while caring for Miss Kay's health. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We still got Jason, Virginia, Zach, and North Carolina. We were talking about marriage in the last podcast in the overtime from Mark chapter 10 is where we're on the text if you're following along. And we sort of got into this thing also Matthew 19 because you get a little bit more flavor in the Matthew 19. context. And dad, you mentioned this before we came back on air, that in the Matthew 19 version, the disciples come to him and say, well, if this is a situation between a husband and wife, is better not to marry. In other words, why would we even want to? Yeah, that's a way I'll get out of this. Which, by the way, their response, and then I'll read you what Jesus told him, but their response

is basically what the world has done now. In other words, to not have the trappings of marriage, they're like, well, yeah, just live together, have sex, whatever you want to. But look at what that's produced. Yep. Not only in the world, but especially now in America, when you're going generations without marriage, but you got kids everywhere and nobody knows it, nobody's supervising. It's out of control. I mean, you talk about unravel a society.

Take marriage out of the picture and see what happened. And then Jesus, his answer was some people. have a difficulty with this, but those who, how does he say it? Well, what he said was, he said, not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs, not married, because they were born that way. Others were made that way by men, you know, that happened a lot, especially in this culture. And others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven.

Those who can't accept, should accept. Apostle Paul was one. He was one that, yeah. He described marriage. He said, those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. That's in the Corinthian letter. But he was a unique. Well, you think about it before Paul.

You know, with family and children and doing what he's doing, it'd be rough on it. Well, before Paul, look at Jesus. Could Jesus have gotten married if he wanted to? Sure. He was a man. Yep. But he had a task here. He had to come and die for the sins of the world.

Or all of you out there. Leave behind a woman and children. Well, the ones out there are listening. And they're thinking, well, what about me? I think of something wrong. me because I don't know whether I'm going to get married or not. Right. Fine.

No problem. You don't have to marry. You're good. You're good to go. And I think going back to the discussion we on the overtime section, and for those who are subscribed, I apologize, I'm going to repeat myself a little bit. Again, the context here, you can't, you can't read this as like, okay, these are the new rules on and then fill in the blank. That's not what's happening here. This is a, we're getting a glimpse into a conference.

conversation between the Pharisees and Jesus, and they're attempting to trap him into this conversation so that they can expose him, by the way. They came to test him to trap him. And they keep on, right? And this is kind of the whole, I mean, all the gospels, it's like the, it's like the, it's like one trap or at least attempt after another to trap Jesus. And then it's like, okay, here's the trap. And then Jesus basically comes in and obliterates the trap because the trap is always built in a linear framework, meaning that it's built in a framework of they've got their legal system. So they can only think inside of this

paradigm, which is why Jesus's answers always transcend their trappings, because their trappings were built on an assumption that everything was illegal, like it's all legal. And Jesus is like, you're missing the point. So they're asking Jesus, you know, how does this take place? Because you seem to be in opposition with what Moses said, because in their minds, like they were using the law of Moses to get whatever the heck they, wanted to get. They were basically saying, I'm going to, I'm going to leave the one I'm with because I want another one, but I can't do that unless I gave a certificate of divorce. And so Jesus is telling them, well, what you're essentially doing is committing adultery.

Like, that's what you're, you're trying to get around it, but you're not. You're doing the thing you're, because you're missing the point of what marriage is. And marriage, we say it's an institution, and I agree with that, but I think it's that, that term to me diminishes it because it removes its marriage is more than just an institution marriage is bringing it's a reflection of the triune nature of god it's bringing two different people together and they actually become one flesh and so there's a there's a here's another word we can use that i'm probably going at blast for teleology teleology there's a there's a there's a design there's a there's a purpose but there is you use it in a sentence yeah so

Like the word, the word, from eschatology to what are you looking at us? Teleology. Are there any alternate pronunciations? Tell us. That's another way we could say. There's a, there's a design. That's the way we could probably say. There's a design to the union of marriage.

And even when it comes to sexuality, you think about it, like to these two people, they come together, they get a male and female, they come together. And there's an apparent design here. and that there's an intimacy, a connection that starts between these two people. And at first it starts out as just kind of maybe a little emotional attraction. It keeps growing and growing and growing to the point where there is literally a physical union and a climax that results, a climax of that love that results in the very creation of life itself. Would you say, Zach, could you make an argument that I don't know when it started,

the numbers started going up to when it finally reached more people now get divorces than they used to. Well, probably in our history, in American history, I mean, what do you think in the past, say, 100 years ago? I mean, how prevalent was divorce when you have a divorce? How prevalent was it 100 years ago? And what's the difference now? Has it grown exponentially big, or am I dreaming? here. I don't know. In 1960, in 1960, the divorce rate was 24%. I was a 75% of all adults were married, and the people living together was 0.001%. Wow. Good night. Woo. You were 14, dad. You were 14.

So now it's what is the current divorce rate? Yeah. The current divorce rate is, somewhere between 50 and 60, there's only about a third of adults married, and there's almost a third living together. Well, you know why I think one of the biggest. So has our current culture, have they been wise? How's that working for you? Yeah, I think it's why it's one of the reasons why we're so miserable is because we have destroyed these family units and connections, and we tend to, I've heard this a lot, and

And honestly, I've been married for 22 years. I've even had this thought in my marriage. Oh, no, I married the wrong person. And that's why I loved how you ended the last podcast, Chase. You should read that again. Let me read that again because, yeah. I mean, I think there was two things that I want to say, one, to expand on what Zach said before I read this quote, is that it's not just a physical union.

And I think Ephesians 5 proves that when Jesus, the reason he wasn't married, is he eventually would marry the church, which is, which is us, which I know makes people feel a little uncomfortable at times because we're talking about male and female, but he also, in Galatians three, we're a bride. We're a bride, but he also in Galatians 3 said, said, we're all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Well, was he excluding women? No, he put them in sons because to Al's point,

women didn't have the same rights and inheritance back in their day. So he made us all a son. But he also called his sheep. So don't be bothered by that, you know, because that gets weird when you think about it. But then when he expanded on Galatians 3 and he goes on to say, for you're all one in Christ Jesus, we put on Christ, there's neither male nor female. So a lot of people try to read too much into that. But I think when you go to Ephesians 5, he clearly defines the role. And to me, the role is a mirror image of how God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit works together.

I mean, I've always thought that. It's the same thing with a marriage. You have a male, a female, and Jesus all united, you know, God, his triune with that. And that's why he mirrors that image in Ephesians 5 with clearly. clearly define roles. And there's something spectacular about those differences coming together that becomes an example to society as far as your kids are concerned. Yeah. Well, it's true.

It's so funny because the world wants to co-op this quest for diversity. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like this all came. This is diversity originated in the very Godhead, because you have. three diverse persons, father, son, and spirit. But at the same time, you have unity. So in the Godhead, you have diversity and unity. You have a unity of diversity.

And that's why God is beautiful. That's ultimately his glory. And so marriage, to your point, is a reflection of, it's supposed to be a reflection of that, that we can get a little taste of, oh, that's what intimacy is. Well, that's what I was going to say when you compare it to us being married to Jesus. Well, Jesus, he's just in the next paragraph, he's going to explain about someone wanting to come to him, the rich young ruler, and not giving everything. When you marry somebody, you give everything. It's not just the body, which is, it is important because when you take that out of the context of which God designed marriage, I went through that.

it's the fire and the fireplace is awesome. The sex in your marriage bed with your wife that you're going to live with the rest of your life, it's awesome. The fire in another room that not with your wife burns your house down. I mean, it's that context matter. But it's also just to make an illustration. If you go out there and have sex with a woman and then you don't call her back or you don't, that well what happens anger rage what what happened here because then all of a sudden you just took

advantage of her and you know in her mind or you know i'm getting that when it's not in the marital context it causes a myriad of problems not to mention sexually diseases but arguments and fights and strife and because you were just you're trying to eat the cake without you know that's why When you get to Titus, all these things, including marriages, they're not monitored close enough by the people of God. You must teach what is in accord. This is Titus II. With sound doctrine, teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith in love and endurance. Now, you say, what's just got to do with marriage?

Likewise, teach the older women. First, you teach the older men. Then you teach the older women to be revered in the way they live, not to be slanderers. I know there's not any women out there. They're slandering each other, but it's possible, evidently. It's not addicted to much wine. You don't want that. But to teach what is good.

then they can train the younger women. Here comes the future wives, and there's training sessions within the kingdom of God. You need to reach out to them and stay close to them and work with them, to teach them to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled. All these things begin to make a lot of sense when you take away what's self-controlled,

teach what is good, be self-control, and pure the women to be busy at home, to be kind, to be subject to their husbands. Oh, yeah, that hurts so that no one will malign the Word of God. Then he goes to encourage the young men. He's got older women, older men, younger women, and now younger men. Teach young men to be self-control and everything set them an example. That's on us. to show them how to live, hold them in,

and be an example by doing, simply put, what's good. In your teaching, show integrity, seriousness. They'll come, that's why we don't interact as the kingdom, people, as close as we are to, soundness of speech that cannot be condemned. I just do that end to say, being married, it's good if people who are, in fact, following Jesus, the fruits coming forth. They have to take that to the younger ones first, then the younger ones.

And it's a, you're building a, well, you're building a kingdom. And they should stand out among men and where the world will see that and say, hmm, I would like to have that. Peace of mind and marriage. Hang on, hang on, let's take a break. Just a thought. Well, I never read my quote.

Can I read the quote? Sure you can. So people who get into marriage have unrealistic expectations because, you know, the me marriage, if you, if you are trying to find the perfect person that won't change you, that fulfills you, that's good in bed, that's low maintenance, that's compatible, that's a soulmate, that's gorgeous, rich, and a Christian, well, that person's not out there. because when you get married, it's going to, the bottom line is marriage is hard. Things change. Even things outside your control. People are self-centered, which means they're going to be sinful. You're going to bring out the worst in each other just because of the time spent around another human being.

This is just the real facts about humanity. And we all know males and females are different. So just that difference is going to take some difficulty. And so besides all that, once you enter the marriage realm, you change just because of how big marriage is. So it's impossible. So I wrote a quote that's a little bit as exaggerating, but it makes the point of what I'm saying. And this was from Stanley Howitz from Duke University. He said, there's an assumption out there in the world that there's.

There's always the perfect person just right that's out there for everyone to marry. And all you got to do is look hard enough and you'll find him or her. This assumption overlooks a crucial aspect of marriage, which is. And this is a drum roll moment. We always marry the wrong person. We never know who we marry until we're married. We just think we do. So his point is it's the idea.

You have an idea of your mind. And then when the idea becomes reality, you say what? Uh-oh. And then it says, or even if you do marry the right person, give it a while, and they will change. Our marriage, for marriage being as big as it is, as soon as you enter marriage, it changes you automatically. And so the guy I heard read that. He then had an illustration. And him and his wife, I actually have listened to some of their speeches.

You know, he'll get up and speak and then she will. And one of the illustrations he used, which was really funny, he said, people ask me all the time since he's been married for, I don't know how many years, a long time. And they've written books about marriage. So he's become like an authority on it. But they said, well, do you have that same spark that when you first held her hand or gave her a kiss when you were dating? How do you have that same spark? And he went, heck no.

He said, I don't have that. He said, and here's why. He said, because I realized that that spark that I had when she first held my hand, he said, that was all my ego. I was just so happy that someone else on this planet thought I was cool. He said, but now it's not a spark. He said, now when I hold my wife's hand and they're older in years and he's been diagnosed with cancer and they've had all these problems, you know, life is difficult. He said, I know that I'm holding the hand of a person who's seen me at my worst, but has decided to love me no matter what. And no matter what happens, whatever life throws at us, we're going to get through this together.

It's become us. It's no longer me. And he said, with that is a freedom that I can be myself even at my worst. And he said, you can't draw that up out in the world. You're not going to find that any other place in the world. It was really, really moving. That's the gospel. I mean, that is the gospel.

I mean, it's. That's why Zach, that's why, Zach, we need to be, even once we're married, we can recommend to others, look. Before you break that up and the kids start crying and the roof caves in because of this divorce, that's why we have, and we should train more, I think, marriage counselors that can sit down, men and women and sit down and explain to people, help them before they make that fatal move to divorce. Divorce is not going to help it. Well, every time you get to...

That was Jesus' point. Every time you get to the point of divorce, and trust me, Lisa and I've worked with a lot of couples. Someone or both have left the concept of Jesus far behind. That's right. Jesus gets left out of the picture when we get to that place. And that's why it seems like it provides relief. What we're saying is it doesn't.

It only provides a new set of problems once you go to the next level. Because to Jason's point, you're bringing it with it. We need to turn to people who are trained in that area, counseling. He starts there. and it has to be there to take advice from people who are older. They've been married and longer. Well, that was your Titus reference, right? That was the Titus reference.

I mean, that's how you learned that. Go ahead. Is that what we were going to say? Yeah, there's a, I love what Jace just how he ended that because I think that is what's missing. Because what we've all heard, because we've all walked with a lot of people that have gone through divorce and marriage issues. And some of us have had our own marriage issues. And it's always the idea, I've married the wrong person. That's very common.

Or God wants me to be happy. I mean, that's the one you hear every time you talk with somebody who's going through this. And it's like, whoa, what if our context is so small that we can't fathom something much bigger that God has planned for? So I think that description that you gave Jace, at the end there, which I would say is the description of intimacy, it's to be known in your darkness, in your weakness, in your whatever your shortcomings and failings are to be known there. and then affirm there. And I've thought this for a while primarily because that's the gospel, right? The gospel is not that God looks at you and says, oh, you're not that bad.

No, it's actually, you're much worse than you think you are, and I affirm you there while we were enemies of Christ. He died for us, Romans Chapter 5. And I was, I'd always done the ministry that way, or at least for the last 12, 13 years, 15 years. And then one of my friends came in, who we all know, who was a marriage and penalty therapist was trained in with something called a systemic theory, but he had left that type of therapy and now is doing a new type of therapy that's called emotionally focused therapy. And so he's telling me about it.

And just the title of it sat wrong with me, but I was like, I was curious because he said, we've got, if we take high risk couples, these are couples that are on the brink of divorce and they come into an intensive EFT therapy session, which is like a weekend intensive. and then it goes into follow-up sessions after that. He said, we're traditional, and I'm probably butchering the numbers here, but it's something like this where traditional therapies have like maybe an 8% success rate with these high-risk couples. He said, we're finding a 70 plus percent success rate. And I was like, wow, that's pretty impressive.

What's the secret to the sauce? And this is what he said. He said, the goal of emotionally focused therapy is to take the couple to their darkest shame, and their darkest, like, where they feel the most vulnerable, and then to find affirmation in that place. And he said, there's a bond that's developed there when you can find affirmation from somebody in your weakness that is virtually unbreakable.

And I looked at him, I said, you do realize that is the gospel, like that God affirms us. He doesn't say it's okay to remain there, but I can be known at that point, because if you think about most of anxiety and things that were afraid of, we're afraid of, we're afraid of being seen because if they see me for who I really am, they're going to reject me. Well, what if they see you for who you really are and accept you and affirm you and say,

I love you there? That's the intimacy that is born in a marriage over a lifetime. And what we're doing is we're settling for some superficial thing that we had when we were 19 years old and we would stay up until 3 in the morning talking on the phone with this. And we're like, we're trying to recapture that. And I feel like God's like, there's so much more that you can't even fathom. And you're settling, like CS Lewis said for the muddipies and the slum, because you can't fathom a holiday by the sea. And I think what you described, Jace, was true intimacy.

I think that's what was so profound about that guy's response. Was that what you just described? Hang on. Let's take a break. What you just described is exactly what Lisa and I experienced. Our counselor, I didn't know the theory she was using. but she used that exact thing except she took it one step further and she with us in sessions we went back to those dark places of shame both for as individuals and as a couple and her thing was

she had us picture Jesus being there all along we couldn't see him in that moment but now we were able to go back through the lens of understanding who Jesus is and see that he was there all along now we were just embracing him. So the way she practiced that with us is we were able to see that even though we didn't practice it in the moment because we didn't see Jesus, now we can see that he's always been there. So to your point, it really does come back to the gospel, what Jesus is and who he is in those darkest moments. Go ahead, Jay's going to say something. No, I was just going to say, I think the problem with these marriages that start off based on feelings, or, you know, I just want to be happy or, you know, What are you going to do when you don't feel like it?

I mean, life is too hard for you to base this whole marriage on how you feel. And I think that's the biggest difference. And so when you get to the gender roles part in Ephesians 5, getting to what Zach is saying, this is an opportunity to mirror who God is. I mean, you think about what Jesus is. If we both have the opportunity, man and woman, to be Jesus to the other person, you say, well, how does that work? Well, just think about Ephesians 5, what he laid out. Well, we know Jesus is Lord.

He's king. He's the head of the church. And so when we see our role as husbands to lead our wife, well, you look at Jesus' life. What was his leadership like? He basically came to serve and to sacrifice himself. So you're like, oh, that kind of authority, huh? Well, then the wife, and look, when I heard this marriage couple, a married couple do this seminar, she said, I realized that if you ask someone, is Jesus as important as God and the Holy Spirit,

well, of course, they're equal importance. She said, but I found in submission, I found a text in Philippians too that says that he had role to take to save the world. And he did it through submission. And what did he do? He became a human. It didn't mean he was less important. It didn't.

And that was so people could know the real God. And she said, once I read that, I realize what an honor I have to be Jesus in this marriage in my role. And those two roles working together in Jesus, the same Jesus. and she said whenever I'm tempted to say, hey, buddy, you're getting out of line. You know what I say? Remember, he came to serve and to sacrifice. As long as you're doing that, we're going to get along great. And she was kind of being over the top with it.

But I think we miss that when you just try to read that text and apply it to how you feel in a worldly environment. Just think about this from a three-dimensional look. not only does Jesus show in his relationship in the Godhead by doing what he did to submit by becoming human, he also introduced the diversity that Zach mentioned earlier to the Godhead. Now the Godhead can experience what it means to be a human being, to have physical intimacy because a part of the Godhead became a human being. So in a sense, it also completed them in the sense that it brought something that they had never had before. They always had the, there was no proximity for the God, right, until God became a human being.

And then all of a sudden, the Godhead gets to experience something they had never experienced in all of eternity what it was like to be a human being. That's why he loves us so much. We bring that to the table. Well, what's amazing to me is in the religious world, people generally get God's grace right. You cannot function. You cannot live. you cannot be who you who God wants you to be without God's grace we should we always are constantly focusing on that and these same people will get married and they don't view the grace

that you have to extend toward each other as just as important I mean you're just thinking about that that you're going to mess up we're flawed people this is not going to go go great but all of a sudden it's like when you look at the list on what people want for a marriage, it's like, well, don't try to change me and, and don't smother me and give me my space.

And you're going to have to extend grace almost on a daily, daily basis. Well, just to reiterate, too, going back to the context we're talking about here is Mark 10, he said, man,

you guys are like chasing a rabbit, but we're not chasing a rabbit because this is the argument. that Jesus was making when he quotes out of Genesis chapter 1, God made the male and female. And so all of this is rooted. He's rooting the argument in creation, right? I mean, this is the thing that, and I know this is controversial. I don't know why it's controversial, but apparently it is. But like, I think it's controversial. I think I do know why. I think it's because of what you mentioned earlier, Jase. We misunderstand the power dynamic that Christ was bringing in the kingdom. And what I mean by that is, hear a term like a term like submission and immediately we're offended by that because they're, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not submitting anybody because that means that I'm, that they got power over me. And, and so it's automatically a bad thing when we hear the word submission. But then when we start to analyze who Christ was and his role in, in the Godhead and you say, okay, he's submitted to his father. He's submitted to death, even death on a cross. And you're like, wait a second. You start to see that there's a transcendent beauty in it. And you see the over for all of this.

rooted back into who God is. And I was thinking about what we're trying to accomplish here is to build a picture of why and what Jesus is doing of the beauty of marriage. And what he's saying to the Pharisees is, you've degraded this and you've turned it into a transaction. I sat in my house last night with a young girl who is six months sober. I mean, just beautiful inside and out, completely brilliant. I mean, this is an incredible person. And we sat there with her until probably midnight, my wife and I, and she's six months sober. She's pregnant with her second child.

She's just, it's a big story. I won't get into the whole story. But when you start to hear her story, she was raised by a mother and father who had a history of substance abuse and I don't know what else was in and out of foster homes. When her dad passed away, nobody was at his funeral except for her. her and she's lived completely isolated life. And then now she's like for the first time of my life, I've got community. And she's talking about Jill and I, my brother and his wife and some other people in our church. And she's just crying and she just has these tears. And I thought, you know, a lot of this stuff that we think is attractive and the world tells us as good, when you see it

played out to the end, it looks like loneliness and it looks like isolation. You know what? And God is offering us engagement. He's offering us in the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the to be in an environment where there's life, where you got cousins. Like, Phil, you said at the beginning of this podcast, you said, I'm sitting here with my two sons, my two of my sons and my nephew, if you would have told Kay to hit the road and you would have never repented for that, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. You'd be isolated off somewhere, but look at the lineage and the legacy and all of that is beneath you now that was built because you submitted to the Holy Spirit.

and you found that with your wife. That's the beauty. And it's, we have to, we can't sacrifice that for a temporary moment of ecstasy. You can't do, I mean, like, you can give, you give your life to immorality. You give your life to pornography and you think, what does it look like in the end? It looks like you're completely unengaged, aloof, distracted, alone, and numb. That doesn't, that doesn't appeal to me. And I think the Holy Spirit, what he's trying to teach us and what Jesus is trying to teach us here is that that that is what this looks like in the end.

But what I designed for you is life and life abundantly. And yes, you may not fully comprehend what I'm trying to tell you because you haven't gone there yet. And I can't you can't understand something you hadn't tasted yet. But it is that intimacy that Jace mentioned earlier. It's that it's that being known in our weakness. It's that it's that peace of mind. It's the grandkids and the kids and the kids around you and the legacy and the friends and the and the connection and just the wholeness and the purity and the it's good. It's that. That's what it is.

And the more you taste that, the more it makes those worldly passions diminish because you see that for what they really are, which is futile and fading. And that is the difference between a godly passion and a worldly passion. Worldly passions fade with time. Godly passions are built on God's glory, so they radiate from one degree to another 2nd Corinthians chapter 3. And that's what we're selling, not us. Well, well said. Hang on, let's take a break.

Well, I want to jump in there and say, you know, to quote a famous philosopher, what happens is when we, we had this thrill of when we're dating or when we're right when we get married. And the philosopher was the thrill is gone at some point. You know, you've done me wrong. Yeah. And all I can do is wish you well, you know, to get out from under the spell or however those words go.

Jay, you quoted Roseanne Barr and BB King in the same podcast. That's pretty impressive. That's a wide array. The reason I'm bringing that up, because I'm going back to that, when you've since that thrill and y'all've seen this a thousand times you don't have to read it in a book this is life what happens is you have a thrill when you're dating because someone thinks you're cool and it it's doing good for your ego and so what happens we get married and then the thrill is gone and so we start looking looking around because we're chasing the thrill you at the singing the blues

so you see what happens though you you you you And I think I've narrowed this down to what the problem is. You haven't taken your relationship or your marriage beyond marketing and promotion. It never went past that. And what I say is you see this a thousand times when people get divorced or they get separated. What do they do? You start seeing women work out again. They're getting in shape.

They're buying new clothes. You say, why are they doing that? we're back into marketing and promotion. We've got to get the thrill and find somebody else to say. I'm working on the new me. This is new. And look, so they get together, then what happens? The thrill is gone.

And so you say, well, we're back to working out. Well, this is a wheel that's going to get more difficult to keep spinning because old age comes in. And look, there comes a point no matter how much working out you do and eating right. I mean, things have just, they're just not going to, it's just not going to work. I'm 76 years old and I'm your mother, Jace's mother, and Al, your mother, and your mother, and your aunt, Dash. And Kay. Every day, I don't know about y'all's women.

I'm just going to tell you about this one. Every day, multiple times. That woman of mine, your mother, Jace, your mother, that woman says, I love you. I love you. I love you. All day long, she tells me that. I love you. I love you.

And Phil, you've talked about this like jokingly a lot, but you're like, well, is it my age? We're just trying to get through the whole ordeal without somebody getting hurt. And we all laugh. But when you say that, I laugh. But I also, it encourages me because we have to come to the realization that our vitality is waning. I mean, it just is by the very nature of the law of entropy. Your love should grow. The older you get, it should grow.

It should grow. It should grow. Just keep going. Well, that's what I was trying to say, that you got to base it on unselfishness and your commitment and that oath and that promise you made. And that that's the things that will last. I mean, when people make mistakes and your wife's going to make mistake, when there's a problem, you just, you have.

in your mindset because it is based on a promise and an oath to God that we're going to work this out. I'm going to do what I can to leave my family, to leave my wife, to be a better husband. When you mess up, you're honest. And so, you know, I've had my wife say that before to me and rightfully so, say, we're past the marketing stage, you know, you don't have to always have your best image of yourself, which is the problem. So when you throw in social media to our society, you know, you don't have to.

society, everybody's given a version of themselves that's not realistic. It's all about marketing and promotion. And when you get together for any length of time, this whole thing explodes. Look, just like it did in the garden. You said, what happened when selfishness and sin entered the camp? What did they do? They started pointing at each other, blaming each other, and then they realized they were shameful. Doubt.

And they were trying to cover up what had just happened. Well, that same thing has repeated itself. since the beginning of time. No, which is the essence of sin is the covering up. That's the deal, right? So you're covering up, you're at fig leaf. I got a fig leaf that I'm going to cover up my nakedness. That is the essence of sins is to cover up your nakedness and to not be known.

I don't want you to see me because if you see me, you'll make fun of me. You know what that's called, Zach, marketing and promotion. It's marketing and promotion. And Zach, it's more than just the physical. That's also, that was emotional and spiritual as well. All those covers. And that's where the shame comes from. Hang on.

Let's take a break. Yeah. Let's take a break. Yeah, because the fig leaf is a metaphor. Just like when God came in and slayed the animal and made them a more durable covering. It's a metaphor. It's all those are metaphors for the big reality of what we do and how we cover. And I think that, you know, when you consider.

the nature of our position in humanity. I mean, I think you can pragmatically ask yourself the question, you know, how is this working out for you? I think that's a good question to ask. And it's not working out for us. So when we return back to Matthew chapter 10 and we had this encounter going on with the Pharisees and Jesus, really, I think what the core of what Jesus is getting at is the, I mean, if you sum it all of, just sum up the whole.

point is he's making here about marriage. What is the point? I think this is the point. The point of your marriage is to glorify God. First and foremost, before anything else, that's, if you want a healthy marriage, if you want a fulfilling marriage, then I would say, then marriage cannot become the idol. God is the end of it. And you have to align in that way.

So you go, but if you get your, if you get your marital advice from movies, which is funny, because last night I told that young lady, I said, you need, you and your husband, y'all need to get around godly people that have wisdom that you trust. Because you don't know all. There's a ton of, you have the intelligence to do it and the self-introspection to do it, but you don't have the tools because you just don't know. And you need that. And I said, where have you been getting your tools from?

And you know what she said? Movies. And I was like, time. Yeah, rom-coms. And I'm like, whoa. Okay. Yeah. The great theology.

That's a bad idea. So, that's a bad idea. Because you end up like that movie. Jerry McGuire whenever. It's an incredible thing. But it's like, what, you complete me. And I'm like, no. That's shallow.

It's not going to work. It's not because it's not based in reality. And it's self, it's self inward consumptive. It's not what God had designed. And I think when he gets to this thing in Mark 10, and that is a big, big, big, big verse. And he quotes it. But from the beginning, he reached the entire thing. He said, no, no, no.

from the beginning, from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. Genesis 1.27, for this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother. Which now he shifted there to chapter two. Go ahead, is that? Yeah, he's in chapter two in that one, chapter 2, verse 24. And the two shall become one flesh so that they are, so they are no longer two but one flesh. what therefore God has joined together let no man separate I mean there is everything we've been talking about in this podcast and the last one and you're thinking man how did y'all go in a rabbit it's not a rabbit trail that what we just read encompasses everything we've said and more than we could ever say in all of our podcast there is so much depth and beauty and meaning there that that's where God points it to I love it so you use the word beauty and the word I use for that text you just described as gift this was marriage was in my opinion, one of the greatest gifts that God ever gave to humanity. And when you think about it, this was for all of humanity. Marriage predates Judaism. It predates Christianity. It predates any of the

world's religions. It was a gift. The very first man, the very first woman, became the very first husband, the very first wife. And so what you just described, Zach, as a foundation for humanity. And that's why he has the idea of uniqueness there, leave your father and mother. But the way I describe when I do a wedding, I say we're witnessing the birth of a brand new family, just like when a baby is born and it's a joyous occasion. When two people make a decision to come together for life, it's the birth of a new family, a unique family. And Zach, I was there. I did your wedding and participated. What I witnessed that day was the birth of you and Jill. And now I look at the fruit that has come from that. That's a beautiful.

thing. And the unity that comes out of that, and that's not just physical, that spiritual and emotional unity. So, I mean, I think that marriage is such a beautiful gift. I love it. And you're right, Zach, it is Jesus's point because the Pharisees have come in and taken such a beautiful thing and tried to use it as a trap for Jesus because of sinful men and women, but especially men, that wanted to just get rid of their wives and sleep with whoever they wanted to. It's really a stain when you look at it. And I think it's one of the reasons why he gives them and goes back to the beginning. I know why the doctor, Dr. Sampanero up here recommended that Ms. Kay take a certain shot once a month. And she said, he said, tell Phil he can do it. He can give you a shot. Oh boy.

So Ms. Kay said, she brought the needle home. She said, so I need to take this shot once a month. Al, it's almost like when I get there, got my little alcohol, you know, I said, let me see that up her leg there, you know. And Miss Cajah, you know, she puts her leg up there, you know. I take a little alcohol vibe. I get a needle, but it's almost, when I give her that shot, so that's the only thing, keep her alive for a few years. It's almost like sticking the needle in me. I mean, I'm like. Because you're one flash. One flat. I didn't realize that this little conversation we've had, and I just say, let me clean this little spot off here. And I just give her. shot, you know, click, you know, wait about 10 seconds. You know, the shot's over,

thought in the trash, and life goes on. But it's my whole woman. It's like sticking me. I don't know what do you call it. Because you know it's painful, although it's needed. Yeah. But then that's part of what you shared together. That's pretty good illustration right there. Yep. That's exactly what brings that out. That's oneness. Just preparing some of you younger books, what you might get into on your marriage journey. Yeah. Well, I think he was, he was going back to a fun. fundamental principle that right before the marriage occurred, he said, it's not good for man to be alone. And I think the picture of marriage gives us a picture of how God is unified, as in the

father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. And then later, he would give us a picture of how we could be married, not only to, you know, an individual for life, which would become a great foundation for any functioning society. You just think about you take out all the married couples for life out of society. And let me know, is it going to be better or worse? But it also then gives you a picture that we could be married to Christ because we're created in the image of God. And he's the one that gave us that picture.

And, you know, there's a lot of pleasure in marriage. I mean, we hadn't talked much about that. But, you know, and sex is pleasurable. It was his idea. That's how we procreate. I mean, if people didn't do that. Yeah. Our culture, our culture says don't marry.

That way you won't have to kill your children. That's one of the things I hear people saying. Don't get married because you'll have to kill your children. Yeah, it is interesting that the limitations seem to come from unlikely sources. A lot of times the limitation actually comes from the people who are, are promising freedom. And I think it reminds me of that verse that says that they promised them freedom while they themselves are slaves to depravity. And I think that's, I think the idea that freedom is linked to not having boundaries.

It's just not, that's not reality. To Jace's point, that was actually, I meant to comment on that earlier, that analogy that you gave of the fire is, is what I think the psalmist meant. when we thank God for our boundaries. I love fires. That's a great point. I had one in my fireplace last night and in my fire pit outside because we had a huge Halloween party. The place I live at, this place goes berserk for Halloween.

So we had Halloween party and we had the, and I love it. I love a good fire as long as it stays within the boundary of the fireplace. If it gets out of that boundary, that thing that's so wonderful and has brought so much peace and warmth to our life and those nights by the fire, that becomes something that that will consume your entire family. My dad, whose house burned down when he was a kid, is still, I mean, he still has an issue with fires inside the house because one took his entire house because they got outside the boundaries.

So I love that. I think that because what happens is in the church sometimes what we do is, you know, we see something that's a threat. And so we just, none of that whatsoever. You can't have any of that that's all bad. Well, why? Because someone abused it over here. Well, no. All things are meant for God's glory, I think the proper way to view things is that things within inside their boundary are good, as God made them to be used, such as our sexuality. And I think what that offers us is a true vision of true liberty. And it's not oppressive. And there's an outlet for it. It's just an outlet that it has to be used in the purpose or the intent. that it was designed for. Yeah, which...

And when we do that, that's what we experienced hold us. Yeah, which is, which is really his point. So we're out of time. I'm going to make an announcement. Jason, unlike you, I'm actually going to announce my announcement. So in anticipation of this podcast being so rich, which I knew it would be, this talk about marriage, for the next podcast, I think the one thing we've lacked, which I have now arranged for the next podcast, is we need to hear from a female perspective. about this topic of marriage that we've been talking about. So Ms. Kay and Missy and Lisa are going to be joining us on the next podcast, which I'm super excited about.

And so we're going to talk about this very thing. Second thing I'll announce is that during the overtime, Zach tried to see you sneaky early in the podcast. He dropped this teleology on us, which now replaces eschatology. And so in the overtime, I have looked this up. And so I want to get into this concept and Zach in his in his vocabulary. We're still waiting for Zach to use it in a sentence. All right. So we're going to hold that.

We're going to do that in the overtime. If you want to follow us over at blazedv.com slash unashamed. Right now there's a promotion. You get $10 off if you use the promo code fill. And that also exposed you to everything that Blaze has on their website. So it's blazv.com slash unashamed. We'll see you in overtime. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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