Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 587 | Phil Explains the Importance of Elders & the Problem with Consumerism

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Phil details the qualifications for eldership in the church and describes the much-needed role that they fill, in order to encourage sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. Al discusses the powerful imagery painted by Jesus when he came to discuss the unknown reality that scholars and teachers of the law thought they understood. Zach names the only place that mankind will find the keys to happiness, joy, and fulfillment and why none of these are found through human consumption. And Phil goes over the differences between redemption and sanctification of the human soul. The Blind hits theaters in 2023. Get updates, trailers, behind-the-scenes moments, and special opportunities here: https://theblindmovie.com - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. Jace is out on assignment. We got him out, Zach, he's out there coming up with some stories that he can tell when he comes back. You know, every once in a while you got to send him out there and just let stuff happen to him, you know? Yeah. To fuel the bike. I was thinking about the last episode, you guys were talking about the Mississippi River.

Jay Stone quoted the philosopher Hank Williams Jr. About the Mississippi River, She's a Going Dry. Yeah. And I read an article that there is a sunken riverboat, which used to be, I believe, a casino, I believe was the story. Like one of those paddle wheel? Yeah.

Yeah. And it sunk to the bottom of the Mississippi River. Well, the Mississippi River is so low that the entire thing is exposed. I thought, now that, there might be some treasure in there. Now, that'd be the place. to go, Jay, you know somebody is doing that. Somebody. Yeah.

Looking into that. And apparently there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a mountain in the middle of the Mississippi River that's also exposed. And I saw some pictures of like, like people at the bottom of it. And it's like this huge, like rock. I forgot the name of it. It's funny because I didn't really know all this. And somebody was telling me this just recently about the river.

But my only link to it not really being aware, not watching the news, I guess, is when I would cross over at Vicksburg. But that's a big, wide, deep part of the river back. I said, man, I hadn't seen this much sandbar in Vicksburg, Mississippi. But I just, I didn't think about it that what that meant north of there. Because there's still a lot of river there. You still can get up and down it. But I guess when you get far enough up, you can't even get the barges up and down,

which is crazy when you think about it. Well, I'll be driving over it on Sunday. I'm headed y'all's way. Yep, that's right, coming in. He's used weather before. to bring nations down. Yeah, that's true. And certainly there's some crazy stuff going on here.

Like you said, you know, it's people try to make it all one thing or another, you know, which is, but I mean, it was a bit of an ice age coming before. Now it's a, you know, now it's the heating and blah, blah, blah, you know. Well, maybe Jace will, maybe Jace will bring back some good stories. It's definitely, you know, in Jace's here, there's never. there's never like an awkward moment of silence. It's like every man for himself, you try to fit in. So we may have a respectful conversation. He just put some pictures up for us from the...

Unbelievable. From the internet. There's that mountain you were talking about I see, Zach. You see it? Yeah. And there's the, I see the paddleboat. He found all that. That's incredible.

I had no idea. Yeah, I mean, I'm anxious to drive across to that bridge and Dixburg to see what it looks like. And I'm thinking how much people. like pump out of the river probably for for uh for farming and all i mean there's got to be oh it's got to be affecting a lot of stuff oh it's affecting a lot of stuff that's pretty amazing that mississippi delta is you start looking into the history of the mississippi delta and the river and the army corps of engineers i mean it's i mean what what has happened on that river is and just coastal erosion i mean it's been big political issue in louisiana just how i mean it's yeah there's a

I mean, it drains two thirds of the United States of America, that one river. Right. That's where the water ends up. If I'm not mistaken, Jason is actually, they're filming their show down there at the bottom this week, I think. But we'll find that when he gets back. But, you know, because you think about that, just like what we're talking about, if for a guy like him, for what they're doing with the treasure hunt, there's no telling what all you find. Think about how much stuff has been going up and down that river for how long. Oh, I mean, you're going back.

You know, the reason that there's this poverty point over here, which is just maybe less than an hour away from us, which the way they described it, there was a couple of big old mounds out there. When I was taking Louisiana history at ULM, the way the guy described it, it was a commerce center. It was a Walmart and a Sam's,

but back in the days of Native American. And so they would come down the river, you know, Mississippi River first wind up over here, you know, because it's about an hour, maybe, that's less than that, 30 minutes of Mississippi River. So they would trade, but they found stuff over there.

there that's, you know, originated in Canada, Minnesota. So all that stuff would come down and then they would trade it. So there was like the big Bonnie and Clyde trade days was just right over there, just right off the river. So there, you know, telling what all, you know, I know all the stuff they found, which is incredible. I mean, we're talking about going back thousands of years. It's pretty amazing.

And even down in here, Dad, there's like a, where's this, the Watson break? Supposedly that's one of the oldest sites. Indian structures, Indian mound. Indian mounds that are just back into swamp, you know, but that's where they were back and forth. So it's pretty amazing. And you're talking about going back to like the days of Christ. I mean, we're talking about two thousand years ago. So it's pretty amazing history when you think about it.

Well, speaking of history, we're in the book of Mark. We'll try to do our best without Jace. I guess we'll get to speak a little bit more, Zach. So you have to jump in there without Jays. I was talking to one of our listeners yesterday. And he was like, man, I just wish. I wish I could hear more from you, Al, but I mean, Jason's good. He's really good, but man, he's just, he never stops talking. I said, I think we should just spend the entire episode just ripping Jay since he's not here. Well, that's not hard for me to do. It's one of my joys. And, of course, we had a, Zach, we had an episode, uh, earlier this week that we did with the ladies. And, uh, so we had all the wives.

Yeah, it went great. We were following up because I thought we had a. really rich discussion about marriage. Yeah, from that earlier, March 10. But I want to get the ladies perspective and some practical in there, too, because all of us, and you and Jill have too,

we worked a lot with couples through the years and trying to maintain marriage and avoid divorce, you know, which is, we talked about that relationship to that text. But one of the thing I love the most about with Missy's own here is because nobody can make Jay squirm like Missy can't. I mean, he's Taflian dying with all of us.

He just deflects and whatever. It doesn't matter. But, boy, she's got a way of getting in his kitchen. And it's a beautiful thing. It's fun to watch. Yeah. She had her list. She did.

Because. Well, you know, there's somebody said one. Go ahead. Somebody told me, I heard a pastor said one time that the greatest tool of sanctification is getting married as a good wife. And they said it's like driving a mack truck for your life. But it's good. I mean, it holds you accountable. You know, you start thinking about you got a good woman.

They can, they, a woman, a good woman or a good spouse, I'll say that, can make you or break you. That's very important. What was funny, Zach, because so jace was like, he gave, he had said it with us. And so I, I admit, I baited him into saying it in front of Missy. And that, you know, because he says we all married the wrong person. That's his, that's his take. Oh, you brought that up. Oh, yeah.

Well, when I did, Missy said, what? What? Well, when he said that, I tell you, I was thinking about, you know, we did the thing at a church a while back called Reengage, which is a ministry at a Watermark Church in Dallas. Yeah, we did. Yeah, that was, man, so good. And one of the things they said that I thought was one of the greatest lines ever, because, you know, everybody says that whenever you're in a marital issue and you're like, you're on the brink, right?

And you're married to this person that I don't even recognize them kind of thing. and you're like, I just married the wrong person. And I love that. They always quote that verse, and I never heard this before, but no, what God brought together, let no man separate. So if you're married, then even if you think it's, I have so known, like what God brought together, let no man separate. I thought, man, that's a, it's an interesting take on how we view marriage.

And I think it ties into Mark 10 for sure, particularly what we're going to get into today in verse 32 because 32 is going to be the example of what Jesus is going to predict that he's going to do for the love of his of his bride and it's like but but the idea is man that that like we go into marriage so often and it's like we can we want to we're going into it to consume something you know I want to consume this person is is like the we mentioned before the Jerry McGuire maybe going to complete me and and it just does when you go into it like that. You're just setting yourself up for failure because nobody can, no one can do that for you. You know what I mean? Right. A good way to look at it. There's, uh, my little wife, Ms. Kay,

there was a note on my, on the, on the chair leg where I sit, watching the ball games and Matt Dillon. And there was a note there. And it said, you know, I'm going to town. She gave her a little update where she was going. she said, you are my best friend ever. And then right below that, it's except for Jesus. When you're in a situation where your woman is telling you, you're not my best friend, Jesus is, but you're a close second. It made me feel better. That's good, ma'am.

Yeah, because the point of your marriage is, this was revolutionary for me, is to understand the point of my marriage was to glorify God and to experience him and enjoy him. And I'd never seen marriage quite like that, you know? And it really was transformational for me and Jill when we started to pursue our marriage intimacy in that way, like growing close to each other. But it was how does this reflect who God is? And I think that's the context really even Mark 10.

I mean, the marriage of stuff is in there. But he's getting it something bigger, which is this idea of the first shall be last, which came from his own nature, you know, of what he was doing when he came down and condescended and took on human flesh. Well, and I think that's why it started out. And I think we made that point clear, and the ladies did as well, that Jesus was painting. I mean, he was dealing with a situation where it was a legal question. And we know the purpose of it was trying to trap him.

It basically said Moses, he's against Moses or, you know, they were trying to get him, trap him. So the whole context of what they were doing was to say, what can we get him? get away with. And when you're looking at marriage, Jesus comes back with, why do you want to get this is a beautiful gift given to humanity. And then he even compares, as you mentioned, his relationship to us in the same context. It's that sort of intimacy. So he's like, he blows them out of the water. And really us, if we think about it. And then we talked about, you remember, that a modern day legalism tries to go back and do exactly what the early legalists were doing. They try to create new law. Jesus is the ultimate.

the verbiage when you saw the commercial, stay in your lane, bro. That's right. I mean, pretty well, that's the way you should view Jesus. Stay in your lane. That's right. Jesus number one. He's number one. And everything falls into place after that.

And the same vertical relationship you have is a horizontal one with your spouse, with your brothers and sisters. And he's making an argument to the Pharisee. In other words, you're my friend if you do what I say. That's right. Yeah, but you think about the whole what's happening here in Mark 10 with, you get the Rich on Ruler. We just talked about that as well. You got the trap on marriage.

Jesus is giving his disciples and the people around him a complete paradigm shift. And so they're coming in with a context. I think this is really, really important to get about Jesus' kingdom. When he brought the kingdom, like everyone had a context, everyone had a framework. They had a way that they thought things were going to be. And a context means that, like, this is the framework from what you operate. And so as long as you're inside our framework, you know, we're doing business the way we've always done business, then we're okay with that.

But that's not how Jesus came in. He came in with a completely different paradigm, a completely different context, a completely different framework. It started with, it started with, I'm going to do some things over and over and over. I'm going to perform miracles after miracle after miracle. And in Matthew, it's chapter 16 until he said, look, I'm going up to Jerusalem. I'm going to die. And in three days I'll be raised from the dead.

In Mark, he starts it in chapter 8. He began to teach them, the son of man must suffer many things, we've rejected by the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law. Just imagine if you're sitting there listening to him say that, that he must be killed. And after three days, rise again. He spoke plainly about this. Peter's arguing with him.

You turn one page. That's Acts 8. Acts 9, the son of man is going up to Jerusalem. He's saying the exact verbiage, they will kill him. And three days later, he'll be raised from the dead. Well, that's in chapter 9. You get to chapter 10 and verse 32, Al, is what you were saying today.

Yeah, it's Mark. The son of Matt must be he going to be betrayed to the chief preach and teachers of the law. They're going to, he's the same wordage, but the reason he waited to chapter 10 of all that's gone on from his birth, God becoming flesh. and Matthew, Mark, Luke, John all cover that to some degree. But Mark, it doesn't cover it to the extent like John does. But the bottom line is the period is the same in all four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Here's who I am, and I'm going to do some things that it is literally impossible for you to do. I'm I'm but but but the bottom line is I'm fixing to die right and they were like all these miracles

and all the static up to now you're going to do what right this was beyond comprehension that they they're like I don't I don't even think they I don't even think they even think they even think they said you're going to do what I think they were just like yeah yeah yeah okay Jesus I want to be the greatest I want to sit at your right hand yeah yeah yeah yeah My brother put him on the other side. He's like, did you know, it's like they're having this conversation. And Jesus, like, look, here's what's about to happen. Like he said, he's repeating it over and over again.

He's teaching him about humility. He's the humility of himself even. I mean, he's like, this is what's going to happen. Like there will be, I'm going to die. And I'll be raised and all that. And like the gravity of what he's telling them, like the fact that as soon as he tells them this, they don't even acknowledge it. They just go into this question about who's going to be the greatest again.

I mean, they're stuck on positional authority. They're stuck on positional power. And Jesus is like, you don't understand who God is, who I am. Just think about it. Hang on, Dad. Let's take a break. When he announces, look, in chapter 10, chapter 10 in verse 32 and following, when he announces what he's fixing to do for the third time in a matter of days,

it said then James and John the sons of Zebedee came to him after they heard this for the third time I'm going to die be buried they're going to spit on them they're going to kill me teacher we want you to do for us whatever we ask look we got something we're going we're going to get you lined out here on what you just said what do you want me to do for you he asked well he's already told him what he's going to do for him out but it involves his death and they're saying, you need to, we need to get on a different track here. What are you talking about? They got, they got a big reservation in their mind on, they're not buying it right here.

No, we're going to tell you what, the way it's worded, it says, James and John, teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask. Well, what a statement on a, on a person who just, and been working miracle, for weeks now and months and warning about the kingdom and what's going to happen to him. They said, you need to listen to what we fix to tell you. We ask. It's pretty amazing. Well, and of course, when you read the Matthew version, it's even worse, Dad.

In Matthew 20, because actually their mom is here. Mark doesn't record it this way, but the mom actually is with them when they come in. And she's like, uh, which is worse, by the way, that is much worse. It's much worse. Oh, nothing worse than that. I mean, it's like, you know, your mom coming in because, you know, you're too ashamed, which you should be. But Zach, to your point and dad, too, all three cases in Mark 8, 9, and now 10, all three times

he told them this, the next section every time was an argument about who was the greatest. That's right. It's three times in a row. That's right. Because the other time, remember they were arguing the amount. Jesus went up on the mountain with Peter James and Johnny. They're not grasping what this is all about you. No, they're not.

And I think the miracles have almost had a counter effect on the disciples. Part of it is to show them who he is and his power. But what they're seeing is, oh, man, we are fixing to be running this place. And this is just before they all exit the premises. That's right. When they see the beginning of what he said, he was going to do. For the first time, they're like, we're out of here. That's right.

Everybody takes off and goes the other direction, I mean, which is amazing. Yeah. Not on one of them. Say, well. Go ahead, Zab. Now, listen to what Jesus, how he responds to him, which is so powerful. He says, you don't know what you're asking. You want to be with me, and you're like, I want to be at the right hand, and I want to be at the,

which is funny, you think about what he's about to do, and he's going to hang on a cross and there will be someone on his right and someone on his left. I think Jesus is he's saying you don't understand like what you're asking for. And he says, are you able to drink the cup that I drink or to be baptized with the baptism, which I'm baptized. And they said to him, we are able. And Jesus said to them, the cup that I drink, you shall drink. And you will be baptized with a baptism with which I'm baptized.

but to sit on my right or my left, this is not mine to give, but it is for those whom it has been prepared. And I love how Jesus responds to him because it's like this rhetorical question. Like you don't know what you're asking, but also you see kind of like that prophetic Jesus knowing the future. He knows that these guys are going to, I mean, they're going to suffer. I mean, for him, they don't understand what he's saying yet. They're probably thinking, oh, yeah, awesome, man. We're going to be, you know, do the same thing he's doing. And just a few moments later, they're probably thinking, uh-oh, is that what he meant by that?

That's not like what I had in mind. But I think the key is when we read all this, we have to, and I said this, I've said this a lot on this podcast. And I want to say it again, because I think it needs to be repeated, that when Jesus talks about like humbling yourself, when he talks about becoming last so that you can be first, when he talks about it's better to give. them to receive, and if you want to gain your life, you have to lose it. And all of those kind of contradictory, seemingly paradoxical statements, what Jesus is telling us, he's giving us a glimpse into what real fulfillment is. And real fulfillment and wholeness and to be live in a context with what you were created to be, it's not to be a self-centered, selfish

consumer, it's to live life with this overflowing. While you're there, while you're there, he's trying to make the argument, what I'm going to do, and the apostles have not seen it yet, this I'm going to do, it's a gift. It's a gift. It's a gift. That's what I'm going to do. That they couldn't grab that. You know, somebody dies, and it's a gift. You're like, well, they got rid of it. He said, I'm going to die and be raised from the dead. And trust me when I tell you, what he's really saying here, it's a gift. Yeah. I don't have to do this. Well, and that's why I think it's interesting. Zach, you mentioned the imagery here. I're arguing with the gift. The imagery he uses, I hadn't thought about that,

the idea of the right and the left, that there were going to be those two thieves hanging on the right and the left. But then even when he talks about the baptism, I assume he's talking about the idea being put to death and then being raised to live anew, he's going to experience that, and so are they, he says. I think that's what he's talking about. And probably he's wanting them to realize what happened because his baptism was when the Spirit of God came down on him. He's tying that together here.

Well, and even think about them, when they get into Acts 1 and 2, when the Holy Spirit comes upon them, what is it? Same deal. Same deal. Falling on them. The gift is being made manifest. The gift is unfolding. what he said, that's what's happened.

But even think about that idea of Zach, the cup, you know, he says, can you drink from the cup? And I think about that image where they put the, they try to get him to take a drink, you know, up on the cross to ease his suffering. And he's like, nope. All the miracles he performed, none of them was as, what's the word, as credible and beyond comprehension is I'm going to die. and in three days I'm going to be raised from the dead. Right. Yeah, so he's, so Jesus is predicting the gospel as Paul defined it in 1st,

Corinthians 15, right? That's right. That's right. That's right. All of the text about the gospel goes back to this right here, what he said right here. In the imagery, yeah. Yeah, so he's predicting it. So when he gets into the conversation about the cup and baptism,

which is interesting because we, those are, whether you use them as a sacrament or an ordinance or maybe a combination of both, that the church still does this, right? We do this. Our church does. We do baptisms whenever anyone comes to Christ. They're not quite sure how they're going to be extricated and brought into this.

They're still wrestling with, they're watching all these miracles, but the one he's fixing to pull off. Now, that one, you're like, that's me dying. And you live because of that. They're like, what? It's just a concept. it's hard to have to wrap your head around. Yeah, or that it would be better.

But let me read you this real quick, and we sometimes I think it for granted because we quote this so much, we probably should just read it. When you think about Jesus says, you're going to be baptized with the baptism that I'm, with my baptism. And here, here's the reference here. Later on, this was not written yet when Jesus said this. This was written later on by the Apostle Paul, which says, what shall we say then? shall we go on sinning to the grace may increase, may it never be?

How shall we who died the sin still living in it? Or don't you know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ, Jesus, have been baptized into his death? So there's your first, that's the first thing Jesus predicted in Mark 10, 32, is that I'm going to die. That overrides all the other miracles. It overrides. It does. And it's our entrance into his kingdom, right?

Therefore, those of us who have been buried with him, there's the second thing that he said he was going to happen. And what Paul mentions in 1st, 15, through baptism into death, there's the third one. I'm sorry, the first one again. So just as Christ was raised from the dead, here's the third one, we too may be raised to the glory of the father. So our baptism, and I think this is important, our baptism is connected to what Jesus did on the cross. And so is the cup. When we take the cup of the Lord and we drink this in remembrance of him and we proclaim his death every Sunday morning at our church until the Lord returns, we are proclaiming this through drinking the cup. And when we participated in baptism and what that symbolizes.

And I think that's what he's referencing here. Like you're connected. Like God wants to connect you with him through the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus. And you have to do the same thing, right? you have to be buried. Because without that, without that, there is no immortality. There's none. Somebody's got to show you that can it be done.

Well, there wasn't but one person who could pull it off. He's basically to tell them, how many of you are going to die? And then three days later, you'll be raised from the dead. That's what's the freak to happen to me. Right. Well, you're arguing, you're wanting to say, who's on the right or left. You said, it's way bigger than that. Which is his whole point.

Let's take another break. You're exactly right, Zai. I mean, that's that, that, that imagery is so powerful. And when you think about it. And, of course, think back to the conversation he had had earlier from timeline with Nicodemus. He was, he was telling him this way, you know, early in his ministry. He had, he already knew, of course, everything is about it. And of all the charlatans that's appeared and reappeared and been there and said this and said that.

None of them have ever come up with this one. No. saying I'm going to go die and be buried and raised from the dead. But what's so powerful is... And you can be part of that. He's telling this. He's giving us this imagery in a context of a discussion where these two guys think that they got it all figured out. You don't miss the point.

They didn't just miss the point. I mean, they missed the whole, like, I'm trying to think of an analogy of like Jesus is explaining something in a frame. and then they're interpreting it. I mean, they don't even have a reference point for what he's saying. No. Because what he's saying is he's like, no,

this is not going to work out how you think. Like this, like, it's going to work out. Yeah. And it's going to be amazing. And there's going to be great power that's going to come. But what you think power is is actually weakness.

What you think heaven is is actually hell. That's right. Everything that you, the way you think the world is, is not how, that you, you do not understand reality. Yeah.

And I created. I am reality, so I understand it because I am the author of everything, the perfector of everything. I understand it. And so he's painting this picture of death, but death to life and what true life looks like. That's why I think when you get to the conversation about baptism, whenever Peter talks about it, he says that it's a pledge of a good conscience towards God that saves you by the resurrection. It's not the removal of dirt from the flesh.

It's not the water. It's the pledge of a good conscience. towards God that sets you by the resurrection. And I've sat in that verse for years and thought, man, my conscience doesn't feel real clean. And it never has, right? I mean, like when I came to Jesus and baptism, I promise you, it wasn't because I felt, oh, my conscience is finally clean now.

In fact, it's quite the opposite. I came to Jesus with a very guilty conscience. What happened me with that one is your conscience, you need to make one more step, but you're a young book. You got room to grow. but when the Hebrew writer said by one sacrifice, and he said, I'm going to die, I be buried and raised from the dead, this is a sacrifice that's going to give you eternal life.

You have been made by one thing. You've been made perfect forever. That means your conscience is cleared because of his death. As you're being made holy, it's going to be a process. on you getting better and better and better. But the fact that I'm dying and being raised from the dead, that's never happened before. And that's why from right now where we're reading,

2,000 years later, it's still the same thing. Exactly. You know, like we're going to be somebody great and we'll be over at his right hand or left hand. He said, all this is, is him being merciful enough. to take our place, to deliver us from sin. This is how God worked it all out. Dying three days later, resurrection.

So it is the greatest story ever told. I think that's his point. I think that's Peter's point, Phil, what you just mentioned, the Hebrew writer. Like, the reason why your conscience is clean is not because you cleaned it. No. That's right. You're attaching yourself.

We were made perfect forever. Yeah, by his sacrifice. So that's the whole thing about baptism. It's attaching you. You're being attached to Christ and his death and burial and resurrection. That's why he says it's the pledge of the good conscience towards God. If you leave off that last part, you don't get it. That's right.

It saves you by the resurrection. That's right. You're getting connected with him now. Sorry, I'm cracking there. You're getting connected with him now. And so my confidence is not, man, I finally got it right. My confidence is he got it right once and for all. He got it right.

And I can lean into his confidence. That's why when somebody asks you, and this happens to me all the time, and y'all too, they say, well, you know, I think I need to be baptized. And I'm like, my first question is, why? Because just because I think I need to be baptized, if I'm not understanding what Jesus did and that he has the ability to clear my conscience, that he has the ability to cleanse me. That's why so many have come to me. And they're still coming.

They're saying, Mr. Phil. They said, look, I was baptized. They said when I was an infant. I said, who told you that? You said, well, some guy told me, you know, we're getting rid of the sins. You get rid of your sins. But they say, I was a baby.

They said I was baptized as a child. So I explained to them what we're talking about today. and they say, that's what I thought. That's what's been eating at me. So I need to get this right. Yeah. So this is what they bring up, the death is there of a resurrection. You're not all in on Jesus.

How would I have known that at four days old? It's hard for a four-day old baby to pledge a good conscience towards God. That's right. He's not pledging anything. That's right. That's when it's more of what's done to you. And we even see that with adults. We've talked about this when we've talked about baptism for it.

It was like, let's take another. break. Zach, I was like the lady, I don't know if you were on the podcast, I was telling about the attorney that I talked to me. So she said something amazing. She said, you know, I was baptized as an infant. She said, and I know enough already from my discussion with my son and listen to you guys that at some point I'm going to need to do that again.

She said, but she's thinking like an attorney, which, and I complimented her on this. She said, but I don't want to do that until I'm all in on my belief in. in Jesus. I said, you got it. Because she's seeking and she's searching. She's a wise woman. A lot of people say, well, let me just go ahead and get that locked out. She's one of the smartest attorneys I've ever heard of it. She's amazing. And she's going to do it. She's going to submit to Christ. Well, because that's what you're, yeah, because you're dying to self. But I think that the context here. Of course, Jesus being the, the, the greatest defense attorney ever because of his mediating workforce, he did pretty good with the teachers of the law.

Yeah. Every time he went up against them. So you want to allow you. You're a lawyer. You ought to check this lawyer. You're out. Exactly. Yep. But the quest for power and the quest for status and the quest for positional authority and all these things of Jesus is turning on his head.

I love this last part of Mark 10 because I think he drives it home in the most powerful way. It says hearing this, this is in verse 41 of Mark 10. Am I hearing that? Hearing James and John, you know, one of the sit at his right and left, He says that the 10 began to feel indignant with James and John calling them to himself. Jesus said to them, You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them. And their great men exercise authority over them.

But it is not this way among you. But whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant. If you stop right there and said, man, okay, we're going to build a movement that's going to change the world. And so what's the core message? You must become a servant. I mean, you would think that's never going to work, right? We're going to build a movement of servants. Like, that's going to be the anchor and the bedrock.

And the guy who built it, this is what he said. He said, you've got to become a servant. And whoever wishes to be first among you shall be a slave of all. So we're going to build a movement. And this is what you got to do. you become a servant and a slave. Yeah. He said, well, what about you?

Are you going to do that? Are you, you know, you're, you're the, you're the supreme being. Are you going to, like, you're, we're just going to sit around and, and you're going to be running everything. And that's what Jesus says, for even the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. I read that. And I'm like, I mean, just sit in that reality for a moment. that we talk about the expansive size of the universe. And we can get into how big it is and how small the, you know, the, the, the nanotechnology

atoms and quarks and, you know, subatomic particles. And it's just, just, you think of the vastness and the smallness of the universe and the, and the God of the cosmos that just said, let it happen and snapped his fingers. And it happened. He just spoke and boom and existed. That God said that he did not come to be served. but to serve. What a concept.

You have to ask the question, why would he do that? And I think the answer is, is that inside of the Godhead, we actually can find, this is the only place, that we can find the keys to happiness, fulfillment, and life is inside God himself, the author of all of that. And if he's, for the joy set before him, the Bible says he endured the cross. So there was a joy that was set before God that would motivate him to come and serve. And the point is this, you're not going to find wholeness and fulfillment and just getting what you can get. Like the way the road to fulfillment is the road to being a servant.

That's what it is. And Jesus himself is the example of that. And the why of it is because he loves us. To give his life as a ransom for many, you say, what would motivate him? someone to do something like that. Love. Love. Love. Love was the motivating factor in all of this.

You know, I find it interesting. He so loved the world. In this context in Chapter 10, you don't see this word much in the Bible. I need to do a word search on it, but it's twice the word indignant was used. So the 10 were indignant with James and John. You know, you bring your mom in here.

You're trying to one up us and be a charge of us. And there's all this, you know, bitterness and backbiting. The other, just earlier, the other indignant, you remember, was Jesus. And you remember why? Because when the little kids were coming, the disciples rebuked the children and said, get out of here. You kids, get out of here. You know, we got big business going on here.

And Jesus was indignant with them. Yeah. But it's the same exact concept that when you put yourself in a position of, try to put you in a position of authority. over other people. That's when Jesus says no. You miss the whole. The serving part is missing. Right. Well, you see it in churches too. Like, you know, people have issue with, because there are, there are passages in the Bible where God gives certain people authority. For example, elders in the church have authority over the congregation. But I think so often we interpret that in a very worldly way

when we think about what that looks like. And honestly, like, there's a lot of church abuse that's happened over the years. But I think the authority that Jesus exercised and the kind of authority that an elder would exercise, it's being a servant first. It's getting at the bottom. And dad and I are both elders. Zach, you're exactly right. And my take has always been, I only have authority that you would give me.

In other words, I can only help shepherd your life if you're willing and want me to do that. If you don't, I have no authority, you know? 100%. Yeah, we say at our church that the only authority that we have as elders is the word rightly lived and the word rightly preached or taught. Like we can't, I can't like, I don't have any, I have no like authority over somebody's life and to say, as an elder in our church and say, hey, no, you got to, no, it's like, I just points you to do what God says. Interesting little text. When the Apostle Paul is talking to Titus, a person, an elder, he must. us hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught.

You say, well, the trustworthy message is what we're looking at in Mark 8, 9, and 10, and all the rest of the Gospels. Hold on to that so that you can encourage others by sound doctrine, which was not what James and John was speaking of, and refute those who oppose. it. So even in leadership, you have to understand we're here to serve, not the other way around, not to condemn, not to be the big shots and the big dogs. Nope, hold on to that trustworthy message. God so love the world he sent Jesus so that through him we could have eternal life.

Which is, let's take our last break. When you think about it, he used the example of the Gentiles lording over, meaning these, you know, realms and kingdoms that you see. That's right. And he was like, we're not doing that. They didn't know what the message was. But you know what hit me, Dad. We talk about this a lot on the podcast, and you do a lot. And when you do speeches and stuff, is that our founders had that idea about even our

physical kingdom, you know, called the United States, because you remember when they wanted to make George Washington a king. Yeah. Because everybody, that's what that always had. So they were like, we need a king. George Wiser, you led us into the revolution. We want you to be a king. And he said, no, we're not having kings here.

We're going to have servants. We serve the people. Yep. Because the people are in charge of the country. So the idea was saying that we've moved way away from that. John Adams had it right. Yeah. The Constitution was written for our moral and religious people.

It's wholly inadequate for any other. If you get rid of what we're discussing today, you're gone. The representative republic, the idea was they serve us, the people. But we've gotten away from that. Now, the problem with kings is they die and they stay dead until the final resurrection. And that's quite the problem. But you know, but you understand in our culture, you can understand why we have a hard time

understanding this teaching of Jesus when from an early age, an early age, I was just catechized by repeated advertisements that were like Sprite, obey your thirst. That's right. Obey my thirst. You're like, like, it's obey what I'm thirsting for.

You know, Burger King was like, have it your way. I'm like, yes, my way. You know, every single advertising campaign. Oh, yeah.

It's like, it's all like you, whatever you want, it's about you. And so you, over time, that's all you're ingesting at every place.

in your life and you're not doing any spiritual formative exercises to train you differently. You're going to hear this teaching from Jesus. And I mean, even now, like I have to work towards understanding this and living this out and experiencing it. But, I mean, I'm just scratching the surface of it. I don't care the most holy guy among us, to your point earlier, Phil. Like, I don't care how holy you are. It's a process.

You're only scratching the surface of what God has for you. You're only scratching the surface. If you hold on to the serving part, you're way better off. You're way better off. When you serve people, I had an encounter the other day with a young girl that was, my wife had volunteered us to do something. I'm not going to get too many details on it for privacy, but she had volunteered our family for an act of service.

And I was kind of like, you know, like honest. I was just like, oh. And it's so funny, though, I went and I got involved. and it's going to be a bigger commitment than, you know, even I think she thought. But, man, like, the experience that I have with this young lady and just seeing, like, I don't know, like God just, like, moved in this conversation and seeing, like, for the first time in her life, she had a glimmer of hope. And it didn't come through a great sermon I preached that she came to.

It didn't come from the money that I gave her. It didn't come from, it literally came from an active service, like an active service. like an act of service that I'm not, I'm giving my wife to credit because I was reluctantly and begrudgingly, you know, submitting to it. But it was like, man, I left there just thinking, gosh, that was awesome. And I'm like, why do I, why am I so selfish that I never, I just like, I won't do stuff for people because I'm just selfish. And I'm missing out on opportunities like that where I can really see life emerge. I think that's what Jesus is getting at. Yeah. And I think that's why you recognize that.

Anytime you're giving, you know, it's you, you, what you receive back. I mean, that, that feeling you had, Zach, was because you gave. That's what serving is. It's giving to people, whether you're giving them time, whether you're giving them effort, money, whatever. And so that idea really is powerful that it's, it's more blessed to give than receive, that concept because you do receive. You receive the idea that this is, this is something bigger than I am.

Holding on to the message takes on new meaning when you... It does. The message is eternity. And I think that's why so many churches lose that concept because they become exactly what he's saying don't do. I mean, the greatest among you should be the one who serves the most. You know, that's true leadership, right? It's not just the person who tells you what to do all the time, which is, you know, what happens, unfortunately. And that's where you get this to do.

I mean, think about somebody who, you know, who says, I'm not going to do that. I'm not, like, that's ridiculous to become last, like to serve. Like, you hear that and you think, no, I'm not doing that. I'm going to do what I want to do. And I'm going to do what Sprite tells me to do. I'm going to obey my thirst. And I mean, if I want it, I'm going to have it.

I'm going to drink it. I'm going to eat it. I'm going to consume it. And I will put no limits on myself whatsoever. I'm going to get what I want. And you just ask yourself this question. how do you think that would work out for you? If you just, if I have an appetite for it, I'm going to go get it.

There would not be a man among us that's married for sure, right? Right. I mean, like, so everybody has to recognize this on some level and the truth of this. And then if we can recognize it on any level, maybe we should consider that we should recognize it on all levels, and particularly in the level of which in the context what Jesus is bringing it to us in. In Hebrews 12, 12, 2, let me say this and then we move on. Hebrews 122, when Jesus, it says, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. I think that's what that joy that's set before Jesus that gave him the motivation to endure the cross.

I think this is what it is. I think it's what we're discussing right here. And so we need to tap in, if we're going to take up our cross and follow Jesus, which is what he said to do, and that's going to be painful at times because we're going to sacrifice. why I'm going to say no to things that we want. We have to have a motivation of a joy set before us. And that joy that's set before us is intimacy first with God. And then we can have that with each other.

Real community. You're exactly right. And it made me think of one of my favorite life texts was Paul to the Philippians of Philippians 2. And it really sums up exactly what we're talking about in this section. And it's when Paul said, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, there's that out of about him in us, any comfort from his love, any fellowship with the spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete how, Paul, by being like-minded,

having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility, consider others better than yourself. each of you should look not to your own interest but to the interest of others your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus. So I think about that text that so powerfully shows you what kingdom living looks like and that is kingdom marriages,

kingdom relationships, you know, any relationship. You see he lays it out so plainly. It's about someone else being greater than me. In this world, we're like because in this world we are like him.

There's no fear in love. Perfect love. drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment. The man who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. So that's the motivation. And that's exactly what he said. God's the lair of the world.

Yeah, and I love this line too, that love covers a multitude of sins. And I've been thinking about that lately. As I've looked around, I thought, man, you ever see people that have moral character flaws and you know them very well. And in fact, probably we, all of us on this podcast right now know each other's character flaws, probably fairly well because we've all lived together forever. But it was funny as I think about y'all, and I know your sin struggles, but I also see the harvest.

And I say, man, I always think about that, like love, because you love people and you love God. And I hope that's like my own sin and my own character flaws, my own moral failures. Man, I love people and I love who God. I love who God is and I love his people. and love can cover up a lot of character flaws. It drives out. It drives out fear, Zach. Well, it becomes the great reset.

That's how you, how can you forgive somebody for hurting you so bad? Because I love. Because I love them. Because, you know, Christ looked past my weaknesses. I look past others. And he looked upon all the suffering that he was fixing to do here. And Luke, I mean, in a Mark 10 there,

All these things he's done up to now. Now he opens the door for saying, immortality has come y'all's way if you want it. It's very powerful. So we're out of time. But in the overtime, I want to talk about this last little section before we get to Mark 11 because we're about to have a seismic shift when he gets to Jerusalem. But there's been a pattern that we've talked about over and over.

It's a pattern of him saying, I've got to die, them saying, I want to be the best, the greatest. They're kind of looking at it like a long train, and they want to be up there where the big dogs are, and the front seats, and the best seating. They want to be in the engine. And I'm just happy to be on the caboose. That's right.

And then there's always, and this whole pattern has been, then there's been a miracle where someone who is blind can see. And I don't think that's on accident. So we'll talk about that in the overtime. BlazTV.com slash Unashamed. Use the promo code fill. You get $10 off of your subscription. So follow us over and get this last piece of the podcast.

pattern. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazediv.com slash unashamed.