Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 600 | Jase Dons His ‘I Could Be Wrong’ Shirt & How WWII Affected People's Knowledge of Scripture

Episode Date: December 18, 2022

Jase knew what lay awaiting him when he heard they would be discussing this controversial scripture, and dressed accordingly. Zach speaks on the various common views of the second coming of Christ and God's kingdom. Al discusses the footnotes found within a popular bible during the events of WWII, which may have influenced people's desire to understand this scripture...or apply it to their beliefs? -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right. So we're back on unashame. We're firmly in Mark 13. We started on the last podcast, and as well as our overtime, we were laughing about Jason's shirt. Well, Jace ended the overtime with a declaration that we're going back in to Daniel. But you mentioned three chapters in Daniel. And so that I said, did you really, did you really wear that shirt on purpose? And they say, yeah, I really did. Well, this is my shirt. Tell them what it says for those listening. I could be wrong.

Yeah, if you start with these four words. I could be wrong, but I have a little verse here. My friends at the T-shirt company. Most people who observe, they're walking down the street and Jace walks by and they read on his chest, I could be wrong. Most people are saying, when they see that, most of them say, you don't want to mess with it. That's a good point. I never thought about what people think. Second Corinthians four. The actually the last time I wore this, I was playing card. And the guy next team he said, what's that shirt mean? I think the people of America, you know, deep in their

heart, you know, when they see a could be wrong, they're like, I wonder what's right with him. Well, it's, before he reads that verse, that's, I have to read the verse and that clarifies what's right. Some of our friends are 316 teases. We have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. I think that's clever. Translated, I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I could be wrong, but I have the Holy Spirit.

Well, if you quote Bible text, I could be wrong if everything is possible for him who believes. I could be wrong. Well, the power's from God and not from us. Well, we say that because if anyone ever attacks us, we could say, hey, I said I could be wrong. You know, it's the ultimate escape hatch. Well, but I was preaching a sermon recently, and I said my point was from God's perspective. And I just stopped out there and I said, now let me tell you about what we say on the podcast. Because when I say from God's perspective, I could be wrong.

I woke up this morning. I looked in the mirror. It was not God looking back at me. It was me. It was Al who's wrong about a lot of stuff. So this is my theory from God's perspective. And so I think that's the way you have to approach anything. You start speaking on the behalf of the Almighty.

You have to leave room for human error. Yeah, particularly on subjects where you know that there are spirit-filled believers who have very robust discussions and disagreements on a particular topic. Those are the ones, I mean, look, we're not going to say I could be wrong about the resurrection of Jesus, but if, what we're talking about issues, the eschatological issues, or things like that, that people do have lots of debates on. There's tons of, I mean, there's tons of people our respect, and I would call them superior to me in their knowledge of the scriptures that I may disagree with them on this topic.

Okay. So this actually, though, the argument started on my shirt when I referenced Mark 1310. So we'll take one controversial issue after another. Let's take this one first. Since that's the backstory here was this. Because he said, and the gospel must first be preached to all nations. And Zach said, I mean, I'm not real sure how to handle that. I was like, oh, I got that and figured out.

And Zach said, oh, you do? And I said, well, I did wear this shirt. Well, you have to remember, Colossians won. That's where he's going. Hang on. I wanted to back up. I wanted to back up because I wanted just to say the people who have the eschatologyal view of this passage only. when you back up and and when verse 5 where it's seemingly Jesus shifted gears here he said watch out that no one decease you

many will come in my name I am he and he will deceive many when you hear of wars and rumors of wars do not be alarmed now look all these things there were wars and rumors of wars before Jerusalem in 8070 was destroyed a lot happened in 40 years Oh, yeah. I looked up the history. Oh, it was, there were wars going on, all right? Now look, there were also nations were rising against nations. That happened. You can look in history. I looked at it. It's many hours of my life. I'll never get back. Did you ever get to where the Roman, the Roman general, Titus had this army. Why did they say the Romans, we've got to crush this thing. We've got to get rid of them. We're going to kill them all. That's what they decided. That's what happened. Yeah.

Well, this is history that we're talking about. And look, when it says there will be earthquakes in various places, there were earthquakes from 30 to 70, at least three or four in that area. One of them wiped out Colise, Heropolis, you know, those three cities are right there close to one, Laudisia. There was one earthquake during this period of time. They wiped out all three of those cities. So a lot of that was going on.

So, and he says, birth pains, you must be on your guard. Now, then he gets back to their personal role in this in verse nine. You'll be handed over to the local council. Now, he's talking to his disciple. Remember, go back to verse three. He's talking to Peter, James, John, and Andrew privately about when this is going to happen. So then he says, on account of me, you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. All happen.

history validates this they all stood up and you make a good point this is not like he's doing a public teaching this was the core four these things he's telling this to these things happened to these men so then all of a sudden verse 10 everybody's like no wait a minute here and the gospel must first be preached to all nations now here's the i'll give you the controversy just so because if you don't even know all this is existing you're like why are y'all making such a deal about it. There's a large group of people to this day who are saying that God is waiting to come back for us to preach the gospel to all nations. Now, my biggest beef with it is not even biblical with that kind of thinking, but it is to say that you're asserting that somehow another

God is just twiddling his thumbs, waiting on us, somehow another, we have, you know, this power that's holding up the second coming, that this all is dependent on how good we are at sharing the... So immediately I'm already suspect. So what I'm proposing is, and I'll give you a couple of passages, but one is found in Acts soon after this. What happens?

The Holy Spirit is poured out in Acts chapter 2. And I think this is interesting. the phraseology that you'll see here because you're saying, well, what did he mean? Are you asserting that the gospel was preached to all nations? Yes. Here's why. Here's my basis for that argument. When the Holy Spirit, Jesus had just ascended and the day of Pentecost came in verse

one, and they were all together. Suddenly, you know, you hear this sound. It filled the house. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire. so the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Verse four. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit. Now look at verse 5.

Now there were staying in Jerusalem. God fear and Jews. Well, look at here. From every nation under heaven. So we got to get the gospel. He said, look, before these temperatures are destroyed in these buildings, the gospel has to be preached to all nations. Well, what a start. The Holy Spirit is poured out in a setting where if you believe this is the Word of God,

how many nations were represented here that saw this happen? Every one of them. Every one of them. And people say, well, what about? And they'll bring up groups of people in the argument because I read all the arguments. I'm going to take it for what it says. They were all here. Then Peter gets up and what does he do?

He shares the God. and there was people representing all nations within airshot. A lot of languages. I mean, okay, so you said, well, that's not enough. Well, let me give you another one. So then I'm going to go to the one you reference, Phil, in Colossians. Yeah. Colossians won.

Yeah, Colossians 1. I didn't even have it written down because I know we're all familiar with this. And it just seemingly is thrown in there. in verse, now look, he just went over. Let me just back up for context, but in verse 13 of Colossians, Paul wrote that he had rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us, look, into the kingdom of the Sonny loves. Well, to my Jesus loving friends who believe that Mark 13 is only some kind of end-of-time thing,

according to this when you read colossians 113 i get the picture that there's some access to that actual kingdom going on then i'm not sure when paul wrote to the colossans it's been late 50s early 60 all right so right before the destruction of the jerusalem he said he has brought us into the kingdom of the son he loves okay so then he talks about who jesus is supremacy in the look in 21 of Colossians 1 he says once you were alienated from God were enemies but now verse 22 he is reconciled you by Christ's physical body the temple that was broken for our sins and the temple that was rebuilt through the resurrection through death to present you holy in his sight without blemish free from accusation if you continue in your faith established and firm not moved from the hope

that's held in the gospel now here's the big drum roll. This is the gospel that you heard. This is 23B of Galoshans 1 and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. That's all of them. Well, let me tie out of this, too. Okay, well, I'll give you, you can give me some rebuttal while I'm turning to another

one. There's no rebuttal here. Go ahead. If you go, if you go to, uh, it's hard to rebutt. I have to rebut that. This is. Yeah, I'm giving you, I'm giving more fuel for the fire here. Oh, good.

At Acts 1, when they're asking, they said, they come together, they were asking him, saying, Lord, is it at this time that you are restored the kingdom to Israel? And this is what he said to him, it's not for you to know the times or the epics, which the father is fixed by his own authority, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, Acts chapter 2, and you shall be my witnesses in both Jerusalem and And in all of Judea and Samaria and even to the remotest parts of the earth. Here's this is interesting to me because we're talking about the king. Not I'm the remotest to the ends.

Well, a different version, but same thing. Yeah, same thing. The ends of the earth. And you're saying, well, when did they do that? Because they didn't do it next two. Now, everybody came to the central place in next two. But there's an event in the book of Acts that happens that was the catalyst for the fulfillment of this going.

And you know what the event was? Acts chapter 8, right at the end of the stoning of Stephen, who had talked about that God doesn't live in your temples built by man's hands. They killed Stephen. And there was this guy named Saul, who later became Paul, was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. Talking about Stephen. And on that day, on the day that Stephen was killed, a great persecution began against

the church, where in Jerusalem. because the church had huddled up in Jerusalem. Correct. And they hadn't gone and done what Jesus told them to do. Right. And they, but at this moment, they were all scattered. Guess where they went? They were out the regions of Judea and Samaria.

So you said, what was the catalyst for the gospel, essentially going to the ends of the earth? It happened. It's all tied up in here between the stoning of Stephen. Acts chapter two, which he just mentioned, when all the nations were present, it's what was right there. in Mark 13.

And guess who would take it the next step? That guy saw when he became Paul. Who became Paul, who wrote the thing in Colossians. Remember the ends of the earth at this point, we're talking about the Roman Empire. Yeah. Everywhere it's stretched, which is kind of what we're talking about. Jay. So before you read that, let's take a break.

I want to take a step back because the Great Commission, Matthew 28, 18 through 20, was first to the disciples. Now, we take application to that, but it was to them first. What do you say? Go and make disciples of all. nation. So even then, he was telling them that. I was going to bring that up. But I just wanted to make a point here, too, about how controversy happens and why we get off, because when you look at the original language, which I did on this phrase, preach the gospel, the gospel must be preached to all nations. And that same phrase to all nations exactly was the Acts 2 that I read,

every nation under seven praise the colossians uh reference indicates that that's at every creature i mean and and i could even give people uh you know when you think about nations versus individuals i mean okay there could be an argument that maybe not every individual heard the gospel but it was it was heard by someone from that nation which does go to us having the holy spirit and responsibility I'm not saying we shouldn't go out and share Jesus. Yes, we share it. That's what we're doing now to every individual to get as many people to heaven as possible. That is God's plan.

We're not arguing that. We're just saying that when Jesus said, but first, the gospel must be exactly what it's say, must be preached to all nations. That's what happened. The Holy Spirit fell. All nations were representing. He shared the gospel, and then all their ministry. All the, that's what they were doing.

And to y'all's points, it was multi-prong. It was the people that were there on the Day of Pentecost that went back. It was the scattering in Acts 8. It was Paul's work, three missionary journeys. Because I think the book of Acts is a great companion with what we're talking about here in Mark 13, because you see this kind of unfold. Oh, exactly. I mean, everything that they're talking about that Jesus is talking about in Mark 13,

you see it unfolding in the book of Acts. and you see it in history that goes beyond the book of Acts as well that we know just from history. Like we know that the temple was destroyed in 80-70. You know what I mean? And so you see it unfold and you're like, man, and to me, I don't know. It's just so encouraging to think about like there's prophecy in the Bible that was fulfilled within the lifetime of the people that it was prophesied to. Oh, I think it's amazing. Well, Jason's shirt.

Jason's shirt, I could be wrong on the front. On the back, as he walks away, there's another little saying, but I don't think so. All right, I'm convinced Phil. And he doesn't have to say a word. But I do want to bring this up. It is written. I do want to bring this up because I think you can, once you study this, you can find some, some things that I think are helpful.

one. I wanted to read this 2nd Timothy 417. Because at face value, you would think, well, this doesn't have anything to do with Mark 13. 10. But actually, it does. It's just in the translation. They translated this phrase differently. Second Timothy 4 or what? 17. Yep. Now, Paul said, but the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength.

Now watch this. so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed in all the Gentiles. Now they translated this all the Gentiles, but the actual Greek phrase is the exact phrase of Mark 1310, which was to all nations. So proclaimed and all the nations might hear it. And I was delivered from the lines. Now, I just wanted to give you another one. that which the point was in his pretty good reason they translated it that is because he was

including all all obscure gentile nations which was look there was probably a lot of them but he was making a point they've all heard it and the lord led me to do that that actually jays that actually that's a great point because that actually expands the idea from jesus's perspective when he's talking about all nations he only viewed it two ways you had jews the people of god the ones who had been carried to bring the messiah and everybody else and so that's why when paul talks about the great mystery and the bringing together it's always who jew and gentile that includes all that i think by the way you could add in other words when during modern day jace if you looked at that all the nations of the world almost all of them i think or maybe all of them no doubt

they do remember something that happened and a lot of them are saying christ mass worship christ worship worldwide to this day well how did it how did that many nations have had this message how did it touch them so that this is a worldwide remember that was God's whole plan was to bring the universe to give access to himself through Jesus that's right and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit to all nations it became universal it was no longer a temple structure Jewish religion you said well why did he just do that off the bat because people say that why did he because he wanted to be king he wanted to with people and he went through the human ancestry. Romans 9-5 comes to mine where it says you can trace, Paul said you can trace the human ancestry of Christ who is God overall. Because the reason that's so

appealing is now we have a human who's ruling the world from heaven. And you say, well, on what basis on being indestructible and completely innocent. So I've never been, you know, for some kind of monarchy because the problem I've had with that is because the guy in charge is flawed, you know, in a worldly sense, a worldly kingdom. But if you had a perfect king and an indestructible king, well, guess what? That's a kingdom I want to be a part of, which leads to your, I was going to say to the point you made that it's in Christ, that Christ comes in, he comes into human history, right? I mean, you could say Christ's Mass, which is the thing about the time of Christmas,

Advent season, the arrival of God incarnate, God with us, Emmanuel, God with us. And you had mentioned that Romans 9 passage of how Christ came through like DNA, like he entered into DNA, which is incredible, you know, and I was thinking about the, the begotten passages in Matthew when it gives the lineage of Jesus and how he got here. And it goes through from Adam all the way down, you know, and begot, begot, begot, begot. And so often we read that and we just like skip over all that because it's so monotonous when you read it. But just this morning I saw something Tim Keller said that I thought was beautiful. He said the begotts, I may butcher this, but the begotts are dripping with the mercy of God.

And I thought, hmm, you think about God came in flesh, he entered into humanity, and the fullness of time was what Paul says in Ephesians and in Galatians 4. And the fullness of time, John 1, the fullness of God entered in to give us grace upon grace. And you think, that's why a lot of this matters, you know, because we're talking about in this moment that God incarnate is standing in, in front of the temple on the Mount of Olives. And he's saying, that ain't it, boys. You're not getting out of here unless you go through me. I am the way the truth is not.

He's changing the narrative in that they thought, if I do this, God will bless me. He's changing that from God did this, I will obey. Right. He changed it around instead of it being something, some kind of ritualistic. thing that you do to gain God's favor or grace. He's like, I provided this whole thing for you. Like all the imagery that you read that we're going to go look at some here. You know, from, I think about that passage in Isaiah where it said, you know, he lifted us up and we rode on the wings of eagles. Well, think about that. What do you, how much does that depend on your

performance and effort to be riding on eagle's wings. Yeah. He, none. Yeah, he's saying you better hope not. You better hope it doesn't depend on your effort. Exactly. I want to mention two days. Plus, destroy this temple and I'll raise it in three days.

You can't get rid of me. Rocks, rocks, we're the rocks of the kingdom. He's the cornerstone. He said, destroy this. I just build it back. But being Jesus, that's why he can say someone. Go ahead before. I'm going to get into this game.

Yeah, we're going to get to the next one. Before we do it, let's take a break. Two things I want to mention. One is you mentioned about why God did it the way he did it. And I think our study of the book of Hebrews showed us that. It was a long play. Everything was to show us what wasn't real as compared to what Israel. So that's why you studied a whole.

Israel or Israel. Israel. That's pretty good. Well, but think about Hebrews as too, it also showed us, the impossibility of any type of righteousness based on the law and based on Moses, which is what, at the first, and John, was it 114? I think John 114 says that, when he says that Christ came, the four.

Dwelling among us. Yeah, and he dwelt among us, and it says something about the fullness. Let me turn here. John one, this is in John one. It says that the word became flesh, 14. and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory as the only begotten from the Father. And then he goes into this weird thing here in verse 16. He says, for of His fullness, the fullness of God dwelt in bodily form is what Paul said in Colossians 1 and Colossus 2.

For of his fullness, we have received grace upon grace. And then he has this juxtaposition here, for the law was given through Moses. So that's one side of it. Not going to work. And that's what the book of Hebrew showed us. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. I think that the book of Hebrews also shows us the impossibility of this. And so as Jesus stands on the Mountain of Olives, the good news for us is he's basically exposing the impossibility of a system that was never going to work anyways.

It was never really the point of it. the point of it was to show us that they could never work. And then he is standing there about to finish his work on the cross and establish a new temple, which would be himself then later us. I think that's what's happening here. I do too. And let me make one more mention before we jump into the next one, Jay's, because this helped me with a passage that always, I couldn't quite figure out why.

But in Matthew's version of Jesus coming into Jerusalem and what we call the triumphal entry, he's on that foal, he weeps. And it's really interesting because the only thing, the time we see Jesus weeping was at Lazarus Graveside, remember, because everybody was so moved. And it says, he said, oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you know, why couldn't you believe? And what, in my mind now, looking at this from Mark 13, from the, in the mind of Christ, because remember, he came here from outside of time. So he is able to see all of history. He sees this being destroyed as he's riding into it. He sees all those people being slaughtered. And it overwhelms Jesus.

I mean, he has a very strong emotional reaction. And so, it really helps me when you get to this where he's actually talking about it, that he's actually already seen it, even when he was here. And he's looking at it again, saying, oh, man, why could you not just believe in me and accept and have life? Why didn't you flee to the hills? You know, all those people that didn't because they didn't believe him. So that helps me to understand Dave in that passage into why he was so emotional in that moment, which is strong. Okay. All right, just move us in. So now look, there's no easy way to say this. This is going to be a little deep. But it's like a guy who came to me one time I shared Jesus with him.

God's grace, his body being crucified, you know, in the resurrection. And his response was, true story. But what about the abomination that causes desolation? I said, well, what has that got to do with your sin and God's redemptive plan in this moment? He's like, well, what about the abomination that causes desolation? So I do want to mention, so I'm going to read two things from Mark 13. So he brings that up in verse 14 when he says, when you see the abomination that causes desolation standing where it does not belong,

let the reader understand, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. All right. So there's one verse I want to read. And then I want to read verse chapter 13. verse 26 when it says at that time, men will see the son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. So we've already talked about what got us here. And if you didn't listen to the last podcast, go back and listen to it.

Paul's right here and then catch you up. So I'm going to go back to Daniel where these two phrases happen. This is a little heavy, but I'm going to read it, Daniel 9. I'm going to go backwards because I think it's easier to understand if you do. It was for me. So Daniel 9 in verse 20, just to get the context, he says, Daniel, while I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel. So we're talking about the same nation as Jesus is.

referring to in Jerusalem here in Mark 13 and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill. All right. So then an angel comes to Daniel because I'm skipping through some of this so I don't have to read all of it. And he gives clarification for one of the many visions that are in Daniel and I want to pick it up in 24 and he says 70-7s are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgressions. Any idea on what you think of about the holy city where he's referring to? Probably Jerusalem. Okay.

And remember, Daniel is in captivity in Babylon when he's writing this. Just to... Yeah, and look, I asked that question, but I knew the answer because look in verse 25 of Daniel 9, no one understand from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild. Jerusalem until the anointed one, the ruler comes. There will be seven sevens and 62 sevens. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench but in times of trouble. After the 62 sevens, the anointed one will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler will come and destroy the city and the sanctuary. I wonder who that is. There's your Titus and Rome.

me if you so choose. Now, a lot of you say, no, wait a minute, what is all this? I'm 62. Just stay with me. The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven, he will put an end to sacrifice an offering. Now, who is known for sacrifices and offering up until Jesus' time? The Jewish Temple of God. Thank you. And on a wing of the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Now, look, you have two choices when you read something like that. I mean, the first thing you need to do is go read the whole book of Daniel. I just picked out that insert. But you see that same phrase that Jesus mentioned in Mark 13. But you have two choices. You can either try to make all those numbers. workout and I read everybody that did and they're never it it I never saw anything that said yeah this is exactly to the day on the 62 sevens and the 77s or you know or you can realize that look

we have a prophecy here a message from an angel to Daniel that's saying there's going to come a time where this place of worship on the temple on this hill it's going to be destroyed and and there's a power that's going to come and make it happen. And there's going to be this central figure who, how did he refer to Jesus, the anointed one here, who will be cut off, you know,

and have nothing. But we know that, we know that is a reference to Jesus and his death on a cross and subsequent his resurrection. I agree. Let's take a break. So,

you say, well, how do you know that? Because if you back up to Daniel 7, I told you I'm going in reverse. He had already mentioned this. Now, this one's a little easier to understand. In verse 13 of Daniel 7, it says,

In my vision at night, I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man. Well, that was, we've already covered the abomination that caused desolation. And look, if you want me just going to answer what that is, I believe in my opinion that it was using this power of Rome to destroy. destroy the Jerusalem, the temple. But you could be wrong. But it could be wrong. Well, hold on.

Let me just read the 13 and 14. Then I'll comment. I mean, they'll let you comment. So here's the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the ancient of days and was led into his presence. He was given, he was given authority, glory, sovereign power, and all people's, nations, and men in every language, worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Now, I know exactly who that's talking about, and I know when it happened.

It happened when Jesus arrived, the process, which was the entire scheme of redemption, but it was becoming a reality when he's now speaking of this. Which is, we talked about this in the previous podcast of the vision and the dream of the statues. But in Mark 13, that's what he says here. He says, then they will see, at whatever time period he's talking about, he says, they will see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. So when you mentioned Daniel 7, I mean, that is a reference to Daniel 7, obviously, because Daniel 7 says one like the son of man was coming. There's no doubt.

Now, so let me just finish the thought. Then we can talk about it. So if you go back to Daniel 2, now we went Daniel 9, We got the abomination causes of desolation and the terminology. Went to seven, we see Jesus is coming or ascending. However you want to look at that. I'm leaning toward the ascending. Well, hold on.

We'll go to Daniel 2, 44, where it started. He had another vision, said, in the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. Nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end. but it itself will endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision. And look, we could go into the details, but all I'm proposing is that in Mark 13,

when he brings this up, there were references made to the prophecies from Daniel that Jesus, the Messiah, the Messiah, was coming to set up a kingdom that would never be destroyed, and he used that same phraseology, the son of man. and it in itself would replace the temple worship

Jewish ritualistic system. And not just replace it, it would far supersede it beyond the comprehension of any human. That's a better way to say. But if you look at this passage in Daniel 7, and think about what's happened, what happened, Daniel 6? You got Daniel in the Lions Den, right?

Daniel's in the Lions den, he's in the pit with the beast, he's not harmed, and he is a sin. he ascends out of the pit. So then you had this, that just happened. I don't think it's there for just coincidence. I heard one scholar said that, like, this is a continuation of that story in another way. But in the matters, and just a second, I'll show you why. But you see here, one like the son of man. You see, he kept looking at the night visions, and behold with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man was coming. So what's he talking about here? Is he talking about the second coming, or is he talking about the ascension of Christ? Listen to this. What

did the son of man do? He came up to, so he came up, up, he came up to who? The ancient of days, and he was, who was God the father, and he presented, was presented before him, and to him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom that all the people's nations and men of every language, going back to exactly what we've been talking about with the inclusion of the Gentiles, might serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away, and his kingdom is one which will not be destroyed. This is the moment. So I think this is what he's talking about. I think he's talking about the ascension of Christ, which was the vindication of Christ.

It was his vindication in this moment where he was seated at the right hand of God. It's when Jesus was in the garden. What does he pray for? He says, Father, the time has come, glorify me now, the presence that I had with you before the world began. the resurrection of Christ was not just, it wasn't just hope for our resurrection. It was also the vindication of Christ, and it was the stamp that everything that this guy said was true. The kingdom to be brought is here. It is finished.

Everything happened at this moment of the resurrection. All authority in heaven and on earth. All of it had been given to me. I completely agree. Now, I do think, you know, people say, well, you want to make the case that he came in judgment in a spiritual way, okay, in the actual happen of 80, 70, but I think the reference is the ascension of Christ. So here's my take.

Let's take another break. So my take is, I love to just that you went backwards. If you continue to go backwards and Daniel, you get to Daniel 2, which we reference a lot about the kingdom, you see that vision of the four kingdoms. Here's what's interesting. In every one of those kingdoms, the Babylonians, of which Daniel's writing from,

Guess what was happening to the temple? Desolation. Yeah. Destruction. Not totally destroyed because they rebuilt it. Guess what happens when you get to the Persians? Same thing. Guess what happens when you get to the Greeks?

And by the way, we don't read about it because there's no scripture here, but if you read history. These are the empires that are coming and they follow. Guess what happened in 167? When the Greeks were in charge, somebody goes into the temple, ends temple worship as the Jews knew it and started sacrificing other things to their gods. Yeah. So it happens again. And then you get to the last, to the Roman era. And now what's happening is he says, this is the ultimate one where it finally stops.

Each one of those, there was a pause in each one of those kingdoms. We get to Romans, to the Roman era, we see the end of it. And let me read you this passage. This is really interesting, again, in the context of what we're talking about here. This is from Mark 14. Whenever Jesus is on trial now, the high priest asked him, are you the Christ, the Messiah, the son of the blessed one. And Jesus says very directly, I am.

And you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the mighty one and coming on the clouds of heaven. So again, it's the same language that he used earlier to the high priest. So is he talking about his second coming? Thousands of years down the road? No. He's talking about you're going to see it, you, Mr. High priest. Because if Daniel's, if Daniel 7 was a reference about the second coming, then you would have had the son of man coming from the ancient of days to us.

Exactly. But what you see is the opposite. You see the son of man coming to the ancient days. He's the right hand of God. That's why I finally told to get back to the Bible study, I said, that already happened. I said, and Jesus was victorious. Yeah. I said, this is a better.

That's what I told him. This is a better system. I said if you were interested in temple worship and giving sacrifices of animals and going through a ritualistic setting, you know, then we could talk about the abomination that causes desolation. But last time I checked, Rome is not what they used to be. And you have Jesus. You can live forever. I say, you know, put your faith and trust. That's what I answered.

Jesus won. Jesus won. I think this is why, I think this right here, to me, is the only way I could ever make sense of this passage in John 16. When he says, here, I tell you the truth, to your advantage, this is Jesus talking, that I go away. Why in the world would anyone think it would be good for Jesus to go away? But he said it's good that he goes away. I've said that so many times I thought, think about what our lives will be like if he'd never left. Now, we did that with Larry when he was here on those.

And it was, I think it was a good point. But Jesus said, it's good that I go away. And here's why. For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, speaking of the spirit. Speaking of the spirit, when the spirit comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.

And then he defines this. And I think this is what the whole thing's about. Concerning sin, because they don't believe in me. So this is the Holy Spirit. he convicts us of our sin. It's that moment we're like, oh, my goodness, I need to return to Christ. But here's the point, verse 10. And concerning righteousness because I go to the Father and you can no longer see me.

And concerning judgment because the ruler of this world has been judged. I think what he's talking about here in verse 10 is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's God's presence moving in you. I always ask kids, when we're going to do a college ministry, I say, you know, if Jesus was with you all the time, would it be easy for you not to sin? If he was just like right there with you? They're like, well, yeah, I mean, it's right there with me.

I'm not going to. I said, well, that's the thing, though. Jesus was in a body. So he couldn't, you know, he wasn't ever where at the same time. But the Holy Spirit, when he came, he lives in you. That's why he says concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, you can't see me anymore. But you don't need to see Jesus face to face anymore because you have the Spirit,

the Holy Spirit living in you. So Christ's work has. finished work was paving the way, his ascension was paving the way in initiating the coming of the Holy Spirit who would live in us, now going back to presence. Now my body is a temple. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God lives in me. And that's why Paul says all sins a man commits are outside his body, except for sexual immorality. Why? Well, because your body's a temple. You can't unite the Holy Spirit with a prostitute. That's what he's saying. You can't, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, Your body is a temple.

We are the temple. God dwells in us. God lives in us. And you can see that vein throughout all of Scripture being accomplished. Which to add more to your point, you think about the verse in Romans 8, where Paul says, when we pray, the Holy Spirit interprets our thoughts in groans and words that we can't even understand or express. So again, to your point, Zach, that means that there's a lot going on in the realm from God to us with the Holy Spirit living in us. And how could that continue on if it was all about a place where everybody went in to find the presence of God and the Holy of Holies in the center of this through their sacrifice? You are the place.

You are the place. Now, I haven't said that. So then people at this point, they're like, well, what are you saying? Jesus? I mean, he's not coming back. Oh, yeah, he's coming back. Again, you know, if you read 1st Corinthians 15. where it says for as an atom all die so in christ all will be made alive this verse 22 but each in his own

turn christ the first fruits then when he comes those who belong to him the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to god the father after he has destroyed all dominion authority and power you say well what is there left if he's raining right now well he explains it 25 for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. So we're not saying he's not coming back. He's coming back. We're just saying that in Mark 13, what he's referencing is the destruction of the temple, which was needed, because guess what? If that hadn't happened and Jesus hadn't died and he wasn't raised, we weren't getting in the kingdom. Yeah, that's right. But a hundred percent, let me clarify, we do believe and are anticipating.

and are longing for the second coming of Christ. Oh, and I have a lot of verses that I say, it is referencing. We're just saying in Mark 13. Yeah. He hadn't died. He hasn't been buried and he hasn't been raised and he's laying out what's going to happen. Right.

And one of the things that was going to happen was he was going to have that, allow that temple to be destroyed. And it historically and in reality was destroyed. And you know what's interesting, Jay says, when you're, You see, Jesus is the only one who predicts this and talks about it. When we get over into Paul's writings, Paul never talks about, but he always talks about the second governor. He's always looking beyond this event as he's working with these people.

Remember, he's operating right up until when it was going to happen, which we're going to get into in the overtime about the not knowing part of it. The point is, and what we're trying to say is, it goes back to that John, too, when he said the temple that Jesus kept referring to, the good news that he was bringing is that he was going to let his body be crushed for our sins. He,

God said, look, I have a plan and I'm going to bring my own sacrifice. It was the exact opposite of what the Jewish system was, which is what?

Go buy an animal and give sacrifices at the Holy of Holy at the temples. And look, they had turned the temple itself into a place to rob people

with all this sacrificial system. And God said, no, look, I'm coming. and I'll bring the sacrifice. Not you. That's what grace is. Jesus coming.

Remember when John the Baptist saw him, and it's just a small saying in John too, he said, look, the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. He realized that Jesus came as a sacrifice, and that's the temple that he was referring to, and I'll raise it up to show you that I'll be Lord of Lords and King of Kings,

and you're part of an eternal kingdom. So people say, So why is this important for a couple of reasons? One, is it's important to study scripture in the context of when it was written and who was written too. That's important for all scriptures. Because just our look at scripture, this is important to understand Mark 13 in context. Number two, I don't believe you ever fully appreciate the second coming or the ascension of Christ unless you understand that this Jewish dispensation or this Jewish era had to end. And unless you understand that fully, you're right.

you never appreciate the greatness of what he did when he went back and what he's going to do when he comes back, which are both tenets of the gospel story. Our Jewish friends have struggled with it for 2,000 years. Many thousand. Well, look, and it wasn't like... And some of our Christian brothers do, too. He bled and died for them too. And he was raised for them too.

But I think part of this theology, which is why we spent two podcasts on this and trying to tell you that, look, there are some arguments among the religious world over this, but we feel this is significant because what is sad is there's not a holiday for the ascension. It's almost never mentioned. And you don't realize that, look, that, that, that was him declaring. This is big. Access for us, the Holy Spirit being poured out for us, and he has, he's victorious. Yeah. He won. That's a great point. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, We should caveat, though, we could be wrong. I mean, that right there, we're not wrong on. I mean, I do think the ascension of Christ is, it's underrated in our theology.

A lot of people don't talk about it. I mean, look, I'm excited about Jesus coming back, but don't try to make every verse meaning that when you're nullifying, Jesus declaring himself as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. If he didn't return back, the mediating work that we now have wouldn't be there. That's right. And all the greatness. So we're out of time.

We'll talk about in the overtime, Jay, is why there's not a holiday for the second coming because we're still waiting on it. Yeah. And look, as always, if you disagree, you feel free to send an email to our Zach. But don't feel like that. And we're going to forward that right under Jay. So, all right. We'll see if you want to follow us over. It's blazedtv.com slash unashamed.

We'll kind of wrap up this discussion of March 13 to get us ready for 14, which is phenomenal in our next. podcast as well. Remember, if you subscribe, you're not only getting our overtime, you also get access to all 800 episodes of In the Woods with Phil, which was Dad's video blog show that's on Blaze. There's some great nuggets in there as well as all of Blaze's content. So it's worth it to subscribe. It's a great Christmas gift as well. So check it out, blazediv.com slash Unashamed.