Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 614 | Jase Calls Out the Robertsons' Apostle Problem & Where Did Jesus Go When He Died?

Episode Date: January 15, 2023

Jase and Al emphasize what a powerful moment it was for Jesus to be taking care of his mother even as he hung on the cross, dying. Jase says Peter reminds him of many Robertson family members in that they all "speak first, deal with consequences later." Phil can't believe the disciples still didn't believe that Jesus would rise from the dead, but Jase defends their lack of faith. Jase makes the point that a group of women watched Jesus die, were eyewitnesses to his burial, and then were the first to see his resurrected body — and yet because they were women, would not be able to testify in a court of law. Plus, where did Jesus go for the three days after he died, before his resurrection? -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Well, we're back, even though we technically didn't go anywhere. You know, we've explained this before to the audience, but especially you guys that listen and don't actually look at us on camera like the YouTubers do. We do, we record two podcasts in a row. So for you, it's been two days that passed for the listener. But for us, that two days was about,

Five minutes. So we're still here. We're still studying and going forward. I mean, look, we're, I don't know for some reason when you get to the death of Jesus and the trials and all the different people's responses. And, I mean, you feel like you don't want to get this wrong here. I mean, you want to open up all the different avenues. You've got four different writers who gave. four different perspectives of the same thing.

But this is where all our chips have moved in to this. This is the Son of God, dying for the sins of the world, which includes our personal individual sins. And one of the things that we're doing in the way we study is we want to relate this to you guys because a lot of our listeners, Bible study, is new to you. So when you're studying something like we are in the Book of Mark,

that's why we keep bouncing around to Matthew, to Luke, and to John, because you want that composite. You get the whole big picture. My word to everybody is read the last two chapters. We're in the last chapter of Mark now. The last two chapters talks about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Matthew did it, Mark did it, Luke did it, John did it. Start right there. And as soon as you get past that in the book of Acts,

read the first paragraph. So from Matthew, Martin, Luke, and John, if they're in front of you, you say, make sure you get those four things nailed down. Same story, same person, Jesus, what he said he would do. He did do. What he's now doing at the right end of God, he's doing that. So you get to Acts, just read the first chapter or two. A couple of chapters there.

A couple of chapters in Roman. but everything you'll find out centers around the death burial and resurrection of Jesus. Everything comes back to that. That's why, and Jason's right, and that is too, that's why this is so important. So I want to just go back. So in the last podcast, we had already looked at Mark's account. Last podcast we looked at Luke's. Matthews we didn't really go to because it's almost the same as Mark's.

And we went through that book 100 podcasts ago. And we studied it. So I want to mention three other things in John that we haven't mentioned yet, and you can read it on your own, but we're not going to read the whole text. Because one of the ways people mark Jesus on the cross is he said seven different things when he was on the cross that are recorded. I mean, obviously he probably said more that's not recorded. One in Mark, we already mentioned, which was also a prophecy fulfillment, is when he said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yeah, that's Psalm 22.1. We talked about that.

We talked about that. So then in Luke, we had three more. We had Father forgive them for they do not know what they're doing. Then also, he tells the thief, I tell you the truth. Today you'll be with me in paradise. And then he also says, Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit, which is just before he dies. He says those words. In Luke, I mean, in John, in John 19, 16 through 37 is the whole, actually 25 through 37.

He says three other things. one is there's this little intimate moment where we actually see John is there, which is interesting, because at this point we hadn't seen any other disciples. But John has made his way there, and he's standing with his mother, his mother, Mary. And so he looks to him and he tells Mary, said, dear woman, here's your son. Because remember, Jesus is the oldest son. Normally this would pass to the next oldest brother to take care of mom, you know, because we think she's a widow because we don't ever read anything about Joseph. So he's like taking care of family business, which really is pretty powerful when you think about it in that moment because like these are traditional Jewish family things that you would do to make sure your mom's taken care of.

And here's the son of God dying on a cross for the sins of the world. But he looks down and sees his mom and his best friend. He's like, okay, this is your son now. And then he looks at him and says, here's your mother. And so he basically is saying, John, I want you to take care of mom. He also knows that John is going to outlive all the other disciples because he's going to be there for the revelation. Says that at the end of John. Peter wasn't quite sure about that.

So Jesus was like, hey, what's that to you? It's pretty funny. It is kind of funny. Not really, but it just, you can't help but laugh. Peter's always just represents really, I think, a lot of members of our family. We tend to speak first and then deal with the consequences later. But I love it in this moment, this family connection, because Jesus didn't just, a lot of people view him becoming a human being. It's just, well, you know, it's almost like a little temporary.

He just had a body for a while and came to do his job. And no, he was fully one of us. He loved his mother like we all do, you know. And he, in the moment he sees her knowing that he was going to have to die because he's told her too. But still it's knowing her sadness. Yeah. And feeling it. exactly right, just like you did with Martha, Mary, and Lazar in that whole situation. So I just

thought that was a really tender moment. And John's the only one that mentions it, because he was there, so he would know about it. In verse 28 of chapter 19, he said, I am thirsty. And that was the thing about they kept trying to take him the vinegar, remember, but that's a fulfillment of a prophecy in Psalm 6921, which is why he said, I'm thirsty. He didn't take the vinegar. He just said, I'm thirsty. So, you know, but that was all a set up for the... Which goes back to that John 5 passage I kept bringing up, which is these scriptures testified about him. Even the one when they, when he said,

my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Well, people that heard that, they said, he's calling Elijah. Yeah. You know, we didn't talk about that, but Mark 15 says that in verse 35. And then they said when they brought the wine vinegar and put it on a stick and offered it to Jesus.

Jesus to drink, they said, now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to take him down. And then with a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last. So I'm assuming they got that from the prophecy where, you know, John the Baptist would come in the spirit of Elijah. Or maybe they had heard about the transfiguration where Elijah appeared. But I do think that's interesting that they were interested in the prophet. They were just having trouble realizing that he is the fulfillment of these prophecies because it didn't fit their narrative.

We've said this a thousand times in the last few podcasts about the coming king. They wanted to conquer, not a weak, beaten, persecuted person on a cross. And let's face it, their thought process was if we're going to have a Messiah, a leader that's going to establish an everlasting, kingdom and covenant like they've been looking forward to he can't die at 33 yes which is why i think they were bringing up Elijah because you remember the significance about Elijah he didn't die he didn't die they liked Elijah yeah we don't want somebody's going to die well if you don't want somebody's going to die you're never going to die in your mind spiritually you're not going to surrender but guess what's going to happen in reality the truth talking about absolute truth you're going to die one way or another

Yeah. And, you know, the irony of it, Jace, is that John the Baptist did come. The Bible says, in the spirit of Elijah. And yet they didn't listen to him either. No. So Elijah did come, but you're like, nope. No, because ultimately what happened to John the Baptist? Cut his head off.

People don't want to follow headless people. That's right. You know, they don't want to follow kings who are crucified. It's pretty amazing that John chapter 20, just below there, verse 9, they still did not understand from scripture that Jesus had to rise from the death. We still didn't, according to John, they... Well, I kind of more slack than you, because look, it's just not in our nature to believe, you know, human beings, even today, people, it's not in their nature. nature to believe that you can come back from the dead with the body, no matter how many times they've been to church.

Now, they might acknowledge it, but to believe that in reality, it's a tough sell. It's a difficult thing to say. Everything we see dies, and you don't see them anymore. Right. And if you do, then we get into ghost. But somebody just walking down the street who was dead three days later, I mean, three days before. John is talking about himself. Finally, the other disciple who had reached the tomb first also went inside, he saw and he believed they still didn't understand that Jesus had to

rise from the dead. It's a tough sell. It is. And we get it. Jesus is right. I mean, death is pretty final in all the cases but this one. And I'm sure all three of us would have had the same disbelief, you know, because... There you are. Well, so remember when the women who, and I made this point before, Missy had actually listened to this, and she's like, you need to clarify that because you weren't clear. So, okay, babe, I will try. I made a point one time saying that I thought it was interesting.

This is your ummed budsman. Yep. I made a point to say that there was a group of women. I'm going to try to clarify this for my lovely wife. because she said that was not clear when you said that in the podcast, that if you were looking at this from a historical viewpoint, did this happen? So just what I'm fixed to say, leave in that context or you're going to miss this. The only people who physically saw with their own eyes,

Jesus die at the cross, they saw him being buried, as in the dead body, and his resurrection were a group. of women. Now, everybody else were in parts of that. Well, the reason I'm making a big deal about this is because if you were trying to prove that Jesus really did this and you went to a court of law, that group of women would be your most key witnesses. And they can't testify. Well, they couldn't testify. Because they were. But they saw, they would be the key witnesses in reality because they saw each leg of the journey. Because if you didn't see him die and you just saw the burglings, you just saw the

They'd say, well, how do you know that's really him? That's somebody else's body. What are you trying to claim that somebody came back from the dead? How do you know he really died and didn't just swim? Well, if you saw him, yeah, that's right. Do you know for a fact where I wasn't there? Well, you weren't there because they switched the bodies. So I was only bringing that up, and I heard somebody else give that dissertation

because the point I was making was if you were making this up back in their culture, the last thing you would do would get would have your key witnesses be a group of women whose testimony was worthless anyway you would never say okay let's tell you what let's do the opposite thing of what gives this credibility which is to have a group of women who saw each leg of the gospel the death barrel and resurrection because then everybody will read that and say well it must have a happen because we have a group of people well you wouldn't do that because they didn't take the first few hundred years, no one would take their testimony. It was way more persecution than them not being able to vote.

Oh, yeah. You think women have been oppressed in the last couple hundred years, and rightfully so. You go back to that culture, and nobody paid any attention to what they were saying. And so I just made the point, because the point that I heard was, it tends to make you believe this really happen because if you were making it up,

it's the exact opposite thing that you would do to create validation. Oh, you'd have had famous guys up there. Yeah, you would logically conclude this happened. So let's take a break. So there's my clarification. You understand my clarification. I got it. Yeah.

And I got it the first time, but it's good to have an ombudsman to keep you in line. Well, since she is a woman, I think she was representing one. women historical wide. Yeah. Be a little more clear on what your point was. So there was my second attempt. Well, so what I love about it, though, Jason, the only way that makes sense, one is that it really happened. But two, it also shows you that Jesus came for everybody.

And you're right, Dad. So you look at the famous people and the important people that were in that same setting, the elders, the teachers of the law, the fair, they were all there. Oh, yeah. And they were heaping insults. And they didn't believe. even they were trashed in Jesus. But these women were, they believed it.

And then this thief believed it. And then this Roman centurion believed it and said, surely this was the son of God. So Jesus is even showing in his death surrounded by all these people that had been looking forward to his coming for hundreds of years that missed it. And then here are these people that society wouldn't even accept his society, Jewish society. It's amazing. That there they were, believing. that he was. And from there, it went worldwide and it's still here.

That's right. It's still going. So I wanted to mention one more. I didn't mention the last one in John 1930, the seventh thing he said. So either before or after he said the one where he said, you know, into your hands, I commit your spirit in Luke. He also said, John recorded, it is finished. And so, you know, a lot has been made. I've heard a lot of sermons based on that one line because,

really in that moment when he died, it was finished. I mean, death now had a whole new meaning. Yep. Sacrifice. And I want to talk a little bit about that sort of the purpose of the crucifixion because we gave you a good picture of the actual happening of it. But this thing accomplished a lot. There was a lot going into that moment.

And when he dies, gives himself up for us. Everything changes, you know, from a cosmic point. view. I mean, in heaven changes, earth changed, opportunities. We're changed now, 2,000 years later because of what happened. And we studied a lot in different books we studied. One of the things that happened in that moment is he fully became our sacrifice. The Bible calls it the atoning sacrifice for our sins. But he had to die for us to be able to be atoned. You know, atonement to work. And so this was a Jewish concept that came forward, this idea about sacrifice, But he became the lamb.

He became the sacrifice. So it was one thing that's happened. And I'll give you a couple of references. You can read that in 2nd Corinthians 521, but said God made him who had no sin to be sin for us. And so that's when it happened. Hebrews 10, Tim is another one. But he was also a substitute for justice and judgment. In that moment, he took our judgment because death was the result of sin.

So he was judged so we don't have to be. And he said, well, wait a minute. I thought the Bible says, we're all judgment. well, we are, but we already know he died for us. So the judgment that we would face because of sin, the moment he said it is finished, if we believe in him, that's it. Yep. We don't fear that.

It's a wonderful place to be in Jesus. It's fantastic. And then the other one I had written down, Jace, was he was our reconciliation. He made peace with God. And you get that from Colossians 1, 19 through 22. He himself, it said by his death on the cross, became. the reconciler. He put us back in the right relationship with the God here. So all that happened at his death, which you think about it. I mean, that's a lot of amazing things that happened when

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. That's it. Man, what a, what a story. I probably added, he defined love here. Oh, there's a lot more, right. Yeah. Right, because you got to remember, like, you take this from a worldly viewpoint. How does a world define love? Well, any movie you watch, it's like when they go have sex. That's like the culmination, oh, they're falling in love and they show the sex scene. That's about the extent of it, sadly.

And, you know, here, when you start talking about love and First Corinthians, 13, it's patient, it's kind, it's not self-seeking, all the things, the qualities, He's the first Corinthians and 13th, were displayed on the cross. It keeps no record of wrongs. It always protects. It persevered. I mean, he did that for us combined with what you said in justice. And to your point, Paul, we even made the point.

When everything boils down, you've got three things, faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is love. So his love and the love that we have for other people is greater than our faith and our hope, according to Paul. Because you've got to ask yourself, why did you do this? Of all the things he could have done, you know, why did he choose to do this? I mean, I can't think of another explanation other than love for us and to demonstrate his justice. Wasn't it John 13 when he told disciples, the greatest thing you can do is... Greater love, no other man has than delayed out of his life, you know, his friends, I think you said.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, look, you could write down 100 things. But that is what culminates in new beginning when you said reconciliation. Because even in marriage or in friendships and the biggest struggle is how to start over once somebody does you wrong. Well, without forgiveness, I'm not sure you can't. I mean. It's impossible. So this was God's quality.

all being revealed in one act. And it was quite the act. Because you talk about justice, you talk about love, even an example for, you know, greatness and success, because that humble,

him humbling himself, you know, pride, just try to go through life being prideful in everything. Let me know how that works out. You will fall. I mean,

you're headed off a cliff. Right. because it just, it will not work without that humility. You know, it's interesting, Jace, because in the chosen Dallas Jenkins and those guys do a good job with this, the symbol right after all this happened for Christians to know each other was a fish. There were several, but a fish was the main thing because I guess the early fisherman, you know, fishers of men, the fish became a little code thing for them. The cross, nobody thought about the cross until much later, you know, because, you know,

it was still being used as an execution device. So the cross wasn't revered the way it is today because of our record. Now, you look around everybody's wearing a cross. There's crosses on the interstate. But in their day, that was just a place where the son of God died. See what I'm saying? And so they were much more focused on what do we do now in that moment. So I think it's interesting that that has become our symbol.

But the reason why is what we're talking about here, because so much happened on that cross. Well, and the fact that he, when he became a human and his plan, he was a carpenter. And so in the physical way, and he recruited a bunch of fishermen. You're seeing all this became something that we think about because that was God's plan. I mean, you just think this, all those boards that he was building things in his early life. You know he had to be thinking in the back of his mind, this meaningless, task that, you know, being a carpenter, you just think you're not, you build little houses and tables and different things. You're actually going to have nails and wood involved in your death

for the salvation of the world. I mean, that is just incredible. That's right. And that's, I think, why it became such a symbolic thing, the irony of that. That's right. Yeah. And you're right. That's, and even I was saying about that when you said that, as one of our podcast listeners built us this table that we used for our podcast. And it came, the wood in there here came out of the back of a tractor-trailer rig, which is, it's amazing because so many truckers listen to our podcast. It is one fine table. It is a fine table.

So thank you for doing that for us. It was pretty amazing. Let's take another break. So, Jason, I wanted to get to the burial, unless there was something that you were going to say about. No, I've been waiting for this because, look, I made comments. a couple of podcasts ago, and I kind of want to clarify that, because there's two fundamental beliefs, because you don't want to get into too much controversy when discussing these matters and missed the overall point. This is the gospel. This is what saved us. Jesus is death,

burial and resurrection. Well, the least talked about thing on that is the actual burial. Yeah. And so one, you know, the go-to, I guess, is the burial was significant in that it proved he was dead. It wasn't like, because a lot of people said, well, he didn't really die. He was just asleep. You know, three days, that's a long nap. I mean, I think he did just, in essence, the wait the three days for us in that there was no doubt he was dead. I mean, he died.

Right. So then the question comes up, well, what, where did he get? go. What did he do? Because there's a couple of passages that seem to imply that there was some activity here. I don't know how we want to, how deep we want to go into this, but most people believe that when you die, there's like a waiting place. So when he told the, when he told the thief, today you'll be with me in paradise. Now, most scholars say, well, that wasn't heaven, heaven. That was like, the waiting place for the one who died. So if you're in good standing,

you would be in the arms, you know, of the Lord in this spiritual, how would you describe that, spiritual, uh, yeah, medium place. Medium place. So now let's say you were outside of Christ, you would also go to a waiting place that was not quite as accommodating. maybe sheo or terrible magazines in this waiting room well right now for a lot of you laugh and said well this is just kind of crazy to believe i don't know if i can believe that well you'll have to get into the greek words of the there's a lot of different words for hell yeah and death and you know you

have hades and shio yeah i'm trying to think of all these now look you can and of course a modern i don't know how modern the word is but a more recent word is purgatory you hear that a lot with different groups, you know, that that's another word they put up. But I will say this. I think it's a valid question, and we want to talk about it, because I think everybody wants to know what happened to Jesus during these three days. And what I was going to reference is a couple podcasts ago. I referenced myself.

I said, like, that I said that Jesus, in quotation marks, went to hell for us. Well, I want to clarify that because there is a belief that people believe that Jesus went to actual hell and preached a sermon, and they based this on 1 Peter 3. We'll read it in a minute. And they base it on Ephesians 4. When it talks about Jesus ascending, it said he led captives on his train. And there is a reference in 2nd Peter, which we're going to study first and 2nd Peter next, so we'll get in more detail, that says some of the angels and rebels in the spiritual world were bound and it says they were they were put in dungeons and prisons where's that out of the house second peter two two yeah it's uh verse four so the reason i'm bringing this said it sent them to hell but then also as a greek word here tartarus um this place putting

them in gloomy dungeons or chains of darkness is what someone said to be held read the first peter three one too so i mean if we're going to go ahead and go into this what let's go all the way with Yeah, so it says, we'll start, I guess, in verse 18, 318, for Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the spirit, through whom, and there's a reference of through which or through whom, also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago

when God waited patiently in the days of Noah. while the ark was being built. In it, only a few people, eight and all were saved through water. This water symbolizes baptism that now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a good conscience towards God.

So look, if you're listening to that for the first time, you're like, oh, well, I mean, there it is. He went, he was preaching. That's the captives. He freed these people in prison. So here's my take. If you go back and read in the gospel, everything that is written.

Well, we just read, he told the thief, well, today you'll be with me in paradise. Which one is true? Did we not go to paradise, or are we going down to the spirits? And he said, Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit. Well, did his spirit not go to the father? Seems pretty clear that it went to the father.

That's what he's in. So you say, well, didn't you say that he went to hell? Here's what I said. and here's what I believe. First of all, anybody who claims to have the three days of Jesus' barrel figured out 100% clear, he's a ball-faced liar. Because I'm just being honest. I don't think we're supposed to know that because he would have been more clear.

It's not clear. I think everyone should agree with that. And I think if you could have the ability to understand that, that would give you some kind of God complex. He didn't reveal that in detail. So here's what I think. I think symbolically, he did experience hell-like existence. And I say symbolically, because he took our punishment, our payment.

And I do agree with some of that teaching in that because if Jesus hadn't had died, we're going to hell. I mean, let's just be honest. So him being abandoned by the father, him being punished, and him having to experience death for the three days, that was hell-like in that it was our punishment. So I said symbolically because I don't think it was the, I don't think he went to literal hell because Jesus didn't do anything wrong. People go to hell because of God's justice and judgment based on you committing a sin.

So the reason I'm basing that, I did this earlier, but now I think we'll give you the fuller context. So in Acts 2, when Peter gets up and preaches the first gospel sermon, which is Jesus revealed, after the Holy Spirit is poured out in Acts 2. So if you hadn't studied the Bible in detail, stop what you're doing, read the whole chapter of 1, you know, Acts 1 and, and Acts 2, because I'm just going to hit the high points. And there's some, he makes some references to what happened while Jesus was in this burial state. And that's what I want to bring out. So in verse 22, he starts talking about Jesus.

In verse 23, he said this was God's purpose. This was planned for knowledge. And with the help of wicked man, he was put to death by an end to the cross. That's Acts 2, 23. But God raised him from the dead. I want you to watch this next phrase. So he raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death.

So Peter characterized that three days as there was some agony here. That's why I'm saying symbolically, I do believe that he experienced some kind of payment for our transgressions, because that's where we would head if he hadn't died and been buried. I don't think he would use that phrase if there was not something negative about his position there. It says he freed him from the agony of being dead.

But now watch this, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. Well, we know that because he had the spirit, it was impossible for him to be dead. But he was dead for three days. So that's why I said, if you claim to understand how all that works, I don't really believe you because God cannot die, but he did. So which is it? Well, I don't know. I don't know how to explain that in a way that's humanly rational.

Other than Jesus taking our place, he's God and man. He did die. He was buried, which was agonizing for God because he can't die, but he did. So he was freed. So you see where I'm going with? So the last thing I want to read is in verse of Acts 2, verse 31. See what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave.

So there it is again. Those three days, he was abandoned to the grave. His body. His body, yeah. Nor did his body see decay. Now, that's another thing. That's why I don't believe he actually was in literal hell for the same reason that his body, according to this,

did not decay. Right. Because it's impossible for God to die. So I said all that to say this. What I think the First Peter three reference is about the spirits, preaching to the spirits. And what I think the Ephesians 4 is about leading captives on his train. And in reference to the angelic world being locked up in prison, I do think that God in that three-day period bound a lot of demons and angelic world who were,

I believe there was a bonding going on there. Now, so when I hear that leading captives on his train, he bound them in the same way I feel like post-Jesus, I mean, I pre-Jesus' death and brown resurrection, you know, the demons could possess. people, not by choice. It just could happen. There was no binding here. People were demon-possessed, but I believe something happened when Jesus died and was buried and resurrected. There was a binding that occurred in the world that we can't see. Let's take a break. Which would also explain to us why there seemed to be so much demonic activity around the years Jesus was here. The most ever. Most ever. I mean, we don't, I mean, of course, the Bible records it because it's talking about him,

but you don't ever hear this much demonic activity since then or before then. I haven't said that. Do I believe that happens in some capacity today? I really do. Sure. But I don't think it's happening as freely, you know, because I do think you have verses like resist the evil one and he'll flee from you. I do believe there's some restrictions put on that.

And so, you know, I believe in the innocence. I believe kids are innocent. You know, no matter what's happened to them and what's done to, I believe that, you know, there's a buffer for a protection against the spiritual world. And it all happened in the death, bell, and resurrection. So, I mean, look, I know that was a long speech. And I know y'all know all that. But I basically felt like if we're going to talk about it, let's go ahead and talk about it. Because it's such a widely debated, you know, topic.

I think you were right to bring it up. My take is from the Peter passage, is the more simple take is that when he talks about the spirit and speaking to these people in the days of Noah, I think he meant the same spirit Noah had is the kind of spirit we're talking about. And I don't have a problem with that.

Right. The translators, now we're getting real technical here, but I feel like we should. You know, there's a word now. In most translations, it says the spirits that, they put the word now in there. Let me go over there and look at it. I would just say.

Now, they say the spirits that are now in prison. Well, that word now, that's not in there. So they put it in there because they don't know what it means either. They're trying to clarify. But if you take the word now out, well, it could be what I was talking about. In the same spirit, whatever was being preached in the days of Noah, represented the shadow that Jesus would have the same,

and look, it's probably a rebellion and sinful and violence. I would just simply say for everyone involved, make sure whatever you think about these texts, some of them are a little bit difficult to understand. But make sure at the end of the day, you put your faith in Jesus, his death, barrel, and resurrection. Well, right. Exactly.

And go on about your business. Wherever he was. We're not going to know every little detail. What happened to Jesus while he was dead? You say, yeah, we can surmise, like Jason's doing. But just remember, just make sure you put your faith in his death. Don't miss that. And burial and resurrection.

Right. Because we can. We'll find out, he'll tell us, find out later. There's too many missing pieces of the puzzle. Jesus has mentioned a good one. There are a lot of things that have had already happened from our perspective of time. In the heavenly realms, you know, we read, we get. little glimpses of it, Revelation 12 and other places. But we don't know, those are other beings.

I mean, we're not, we get these little bitty clues about what was happening with Satan and these evil angels, but there was a lot going on that we'll never know about until we get there. Well, and the reason I brought it up, because I had a guy at church yesterday too, said, hey, I heard you say the other day in that podcast that you believe Jesus went to hell, and that's just not true. Do you want to clarify that? No, it's a brother, I know, and he didn't mean anything. He wasn't, you know, he was playfully saying that. And he said, so what do you really think? And I said, well, here's what I really think. Yes, no, and maybe. Well, he looked at me like, well, and I told you symbolically, I do think that you can make those connections because Jesus did

take our place and, in essence, take our punishment. And what is our punishment? When you're banished from God, and you call it darkness, fire, hell, you know, whether literal or figurative. It's all bad. And I'm like with Phil's point, in the end, make sure you're not there. That's right. That's the point. Don't be arguing about what's going to happen there and then wind up there. Yeah. That's just dumb. But I also realize that there's not enough detail given. And I don't think we're, if we could grasp how God can become a man and do this and be the bridge between the two, if you could really grasp that 100 percent, I don't think it would be that awesome. So I just believe you're not going to be able to get your head around that.

Just like what we're going to do in heaven forever. Same thing. We all argue about what heaven is like. And a lot of people that I completely disagree with who think it's just streets of gold and Peter at the gate. And I'm like, I think that was symbolic language for our experience being in. the kingdom. It's the best we know. It's the best we know. And you start reading Revelation, you see all these jewels and this magnificent views and all this. There wasn't but about eight in all who had any kind of faith in God when he put the flood

on them. Well, right. Everybody went rogue except eight of them. So this thing can get out of control and every last one of them will rebel against God. Well, now, about 120 in the room after he raised he was risen from the dead and and when noah preached to him he was preaching to that little handful in my opinion and the spirits that had become before him and all of them went rogue i mean there was a position of hell fire right there right and you got to you got to remember uh let's take our last word you got to remember as jay said there's a lot of different words throughout old testament and new testament referring to these places but just remember heaven is with God, hell is not being with God.

That's why I read that he wasn't abandoned to the grave, because in essence, that's why I said, I'm okay with you symbolically saying, you know, he went, you know, to hell for us, even though it may not have been the literal as we, because that, he didn't commit any sin. Right. I don't think he went to hell. I think he just preached to the eight who were alive. and at that time, every last one of them, but the eight, were in hell. I don't know.

I mean, Al believes that it's just symbolic of what Noah preached. In other words, the same Holy Spirit, which the Holy Spirit is just the Spirit of Christ. I mean, it's part of the triune of God. But he was working throughout history, and Jesus was there too. Wasn't that funny how we all have three different takes? Yeah. See, I believe the first Peter three was. was talking about the spirits.

I think it was the demonic world. And that's intriguing. He bound those in that moment. He wasn't going, because he can't go to hell because he did anything wrong. There's no point. He was innocent. But he bound them because of his conquering of the grave. And his, you know, then we're getting into this Hebrews too, where he's like, he freed

those who all their life were held in slavery by their fear of death. and he bound the evil one. Something happened. The evil one and his posse were controlling people in their fear of death. While of a sudden, when Jesus was resurrected, when he died, was buried and resurrected, he took that away. You could now look death right in the face and say, what are you going to do about it? The culture, and when that was going on with Noah, just got to remember, he said,

I've looked down and their every thought was wicked. Every thought they had was all wickedness except for eight of them. He said, I'm going to wipe the earth clear of them. And then he brought the flood on them. When Jesus did that, he's basically saying to everybody, the one of the spirits, the reason they ended up where they were, they didn't have any faith in him. They didn't believe in God, for sure.

No, didn't believe in God. Just you remember that scene and the passion, I thought Mel Gibson, who, you know, directed that film, had a great scene. When Jesus says it is finished, you know, they cut to the being or the person that was playing Satan because it was kind of like this weird looking. Remember he screams out like because there's just a scream because it's like in that moment something happened, you know. You know, it's funny. That part of the passion movie bothered a lot of religious people, this kind of, demonic, weird, you know, like, and they were using their subjective, artistic impression of what was going on.

Yep. But I really like that because of these passages were referencing. I do think that there was a clash of not just the physical world and humans, but there was also a change in the, what world do we want to call that? the angelic, the same one that when he said in Ephesion 6, our struggles not against flesh and blood. Heavenly realm. The heavenly ramp. There was a, there was something happened in there.

So that's why my view goes to that. I think whatever he did during those three days address that issue, where that now you could resist the evil one and he will flee from you. And there's a long run debate about whether once we, once people, die, where does your spirit go? Does it go to these same type places we're talking about? Is it soul sleep where there's no awareness and your spirit is just hell someplace waiting for the resurrection? Because we do know from Jesus' own words in John 5 that judgment is not fully done until its body, soul, and spirit. All right. And then eternity. See, I would make a case to

combine the agony of death in Acts 2 because somebody has to give me an explanation. Look, I have heard zero sermons about that. I didn't get that from anybody. I just read that and thought, hmm, right. And nobody wants to comment on that. But I do see a connection with that in Romans 8 where you see the groans of the creation, which I think are actual people. Well, why are you groaning? Because you're waiting in Romans 8 is all about the redemption of our bodies. Whereas that 22 or 24, we're waiting for that to occur. Yeah. It's not a good, you know, you were reading the last podcast about the tent and we groaned. That's 2nd Corinthians 5, eagerly awaiting to be clothed with our bodies.

They're heavenly dwelling. Because look, here's why I think it was agonizing. It's the point I'm getting at. And I think you'll find this fascinating. Did you know that I forgot what the number was? It was high. 70, 80% of believers believe in a spiritual resurrection only. Yeah.

Well, no wonder we're so depressed. Because think about it, you're trying to sell an idea. I mean, I obviously disagree with this, because here's why. If you were just a spirit, well, you wouldn't have a way to express. You would have all these desires and hopes, and why did God give us a body? Why did he become a man? To express the heart, to live, to interact. By the way, why would he leave here in a body?

Why would he leave here in a body? Now, look. Some people will believe it's like a suit, and he just, once he got to the atmosphere, he just stripped that off and let it burn or re-insured. I'm pretty confident a lot of people listening to us are in that counts. It's at 70, 80 percent. But you've got to think about that. Why, when you have 1st Corinthians 15, you know, the body that is sown is perishable.

But it is raised imperishable. You know, what's it? There's a body. This same Jesus, who you saw leave will come back. You know, the same Jesus. He had a body. He was like, Thomas was like, it can't be. It can't be.

Well, Jesus got his body back. He was like, grab a hoax. Look at where my scars were. So he made a really big deal about that. So there is, I do think, a groaning and agonizing, not that you're in agony as far as, having the repercussions of your lifestyle, I think that comes later. You know, Jesus said there's a resurrection at the end, one of the righteous and one for

the unrighteous. And guess what? You reap what you sow. I mean, he's been really clear on that. Does that mean that God is not fair? No, we're going to the cross to show you that. And I do believe that even God, he calls people. You remember in John where he said the type of death that Jesus would die, would

And by that, he would draw all men to himself. There's a reason that people are enamored with what happened on that cross and the barrel and the resurrection. Look, there's another reason we're all here on the earth trying to share Jesus with the entire world. There's groups, as far as you can see, going to every corner of the world. Why are they doing that? Because this is God's plan for us. He uses people to share Jesus so that you won't miss this. if you wind up in hell, you won't be able to say, oh, well, it's God's fault. No. It's just not. So that

intermediate period where time ceased to exist, in my opinion, which is where people get the idea of sleep, I think if you are with the Lord, and just like that thief on the cross, I do believe, you know, what he called paradise, you're waiting, but not as far as looking at your watch. There's no watches once you die. I believe you're in a safe environment or, you know, however you want to describe. There's no words to describe. I don't know how to describe it. But I know when the resurrection comes and Jesus comes back, that's it. We, our spirits and our bodies reunite. It is changed in a twinkling of an eye from perishable to imperishable. And to quote first of Solonians 4. And so we will be.

be with the Lord forever. That's about all I'm worried about. Well, and I mentioned St. Corinthians 12 in the last podcast. Well, Paul, you know, pleaded about the thorn in the flesh. But you remember why he got the thorn in the flesh? He said, these were given to me because of these exceedingly great revelation. And he had just described where he said, he went into the third heaven, which would have been the heavenly realm. And he said, I don't even know if I was in my body or not in my body. He said, but I saw things I can't describe. Yep. And then he said, didn't he say in there that I'm not permitted to speak about? So some versions put it that way. Yeah, I mean, look, your safest course of action is put your faith in Jesus and his death, burial and resurrection,

and do that now. Don't miss that, right, Dan. That was Phil's invitation. How do you want to leave the invitations on? I will. And I'm going to at least. it in the overtime. That way, not everybody have to hear me sing. We'll go ahead over to overtime. BlazTV.com slash Unashamed is where you go for that. And we'll wrap up this idea on the barrel of Jesus. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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