Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 620 | Jase Gets 3 Wishes & Phil Knows the Answer to the Question 'Who’s a Man?' – or He Used To!

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

Jase ponders what he’d wish for if he had his own genie. The guys try to embrace the aging process, with Phil claiming that he can now see how foolish he was in the past. Al elaborates on what the rest of the world’s top ten wishes are. Jase reflects on the differences between hopes and wishes, while Zach explores the true nature of God and the purpose of humans in the cosmos.  In this episode: 1 Peter 1, verses 8-12 "The Blind" hits theaters this fall. Get updates, trailers, behind-the-scenes moments, and special opportunities here: https://theblindmovie.com -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We got Zach from Black Mountain. We got me from the Southern Lair. We got Dad and Jace coming from the northern layer during duck season. We actually did not duck hunt today so we could be fresh for our conversation. And it was not really a good day to duck hunt.

and 75 degrees of no wind. Which I appreciate about y'all. You've been a little more flexible. If it's not a good day to hunt, then y'all are like, hey, we'll just do podcast today. Well, Al. You've kind of matured to that, I think. No, I think it's more that we're just getting old. And we have now grown an appreciation for a good night's rest.

And so we went through this, you know, who's a man, 60 days of duck season. We're going to hunt every day. and, you know, when you're, we basically wanted to be awake during the entire length of the podcast. Sometimes the old adage that somebody came up with who's a man, somewhere in there, the answer is that there's the difference between a fool and somebody that's thinking clearly. That's good. You've come a long way. in that because when we were kids, it was all about who's a man.

That's all I remember. Well, I think about 50, 50 years, Zach, the who's a man has gone from when I died, don't cry. Yeah, that's it. Here's why I've laughed at that because if you guys, when y'all see the film,

that line is in, I don't know how we captured that, an interview in everybody, but that is a key. I mean, that's, that's in the film, by the way. The Blindmovie.com, if you want to know more about it. Okay. Let me let, I interrupted Zach's shameless plug, but it says about our family.

I'm for it. And I've seen, they've let us see three clips of it just to lure us a little bit in. So, but Phil, to his credit, he transformed from who's a man to Jesus is the man. And so, well done. Phil. A kindler, gentler. He finally answered it. That's it.

That's good. Yeah, that's right. He's just says, it's one like a son of man. He's a man, Jesus. Yeah. I like it. So we're going to get into First Peter today on our podcast. And we started a little bit.

Zach took the wheel and jumped us into the first couple of verses on the last podcast. But I looked up something, Jason. I thought it was interesting because a big. a key word suffering we've already talked about, but the idea is there's hope through suffering. And so we're going to see the word hope come up quite a bit, especially right off the bat today. And so I got to thinking about, you know, how people view hope. And it was interesting when I did a little bit of a word search on it.

A lot of people think in terms more of wishing than hoping. And there is a difference, quite of a difference between those two words. I wish something to be true. I wish I had this. I wish I was whatever versus hope, right? There seems to be a more substantial thing to hope. I've always looked at it like when someone hopes, they think that there's a high probability for it to come true. And when they're wishing, it's a high probability that it's not going to come true.

You just, you wish. Like, you know, the O'Dill, I'll give you three wishes, which is probably the most famous, depiction of wishes. And most of the time, people are wishing for something that's probably not going to happen. Yeah, I think that really will become the defining line when we start talking about it, especially when we talk about suffering. So I looked up, I found a website that had done a big survey of people about the top things they wish for.

So to your point, Jayce, I think you're right because here's what it is. I don't think it's necessarily a 10 to 1 in terms of value. I'll list them 10 to 1. I think it doesn't matter. It could be any of these. These are top 10 things people wish for. Number 10 was good health. That was one thing.

Number nine was money. They wish for money. Number eight was fundamentals for survival, which is kind of you think more of a worldwide thought, I think. Number seven was love. Number six was to change yourself. number five was fame, number four was sex, number three was peace, number two, freedom, and number one, happiness. So those are the top ten things from this survey that people in general wish for.

So I was going to get your reaction on that. Well, they missed the main one. Your first wish should be to wish for unlimited wishes. Yeah, but that's a violation of the made-up narrative of having... Of the three wishes. Yeah. Well, because then you could say, I wish there was an actual genie who could grant me three wishes. Same principle.

Yeah. Yeah, that was actually... Those rules were outlined in the Disney movie Aladdin, actually. I did not see that. He said you got three wishes. I think Robin Williams played the genie in the movie of the animation. Then he said, But you can't wish for unlimited way.

He had a list of like a, you had to sign of contract. And that was. Leave it to Disney to come up to contract. Well, why wouldn't someone say eternal life? Yeah. Well, that's right.

Why wouldn't they? They're not spiritually minded. They did ask for love. I mean, that's maybe people don't want to. Maybe their life is not going so well and they don't want to live forever. That's true. Yeah. Well, to your point, though, Al,

that what you, like a wish and hope are not the same thing. I was thinking that when you said that about that Hebrews 11 passage that, let me read that. Which is about faith, but it, the idea that you get when you read that,

what does it say, faith is the substance of things unseen. It's the evidence of things that are hoped for. Well, Well, the more easier red version, the NIV, says faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. But the substance is probably a little more accurate, the assurance of the substance not. The NASB says, now faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen.

So I think when we think about hope, when we think about faith, when we think about this isn't. like jumping off the cliff with your fingers crossed and like, man, I hope somebody catches me. When Peter's talking about hope, it's, it's, I love the word substance. It's got substance to it. You can sink your teeth into it. It's not, it's not like, man, I hope this is going to happen. We're not like, we're not flying blind out here. This isn't blind faith.

This is faith that's anchored in rationality. It's faith that's anchored in that inner longing in your, I mean, this is real. This is not pie in the sky. You know, this is a very, a very tangible hope, very tangible face. I think most non-Christians view our hope as a pie in the sky. But Peter actually, he used that phrase, which would be interesting to see how the world would define it. But it says a living hope. Now, I think that adds an element that we need to discuss.

Yeah, I would agree. I think part of it is when we read last week about understanding that what, that says we are chosen, it's understanding that it's not just a death gospel. It's a death to life gospel. You know, it's sanctifying work of the spirit is involved in this, you know, which is ongoing. To obey Jesus Christ, that's an ongoing thing that we participate in. And so you go, you read verse, you read like Romans 5, Romans 6, you know, which we've preached a lot of Roman 6 about baptism, but, but you know, the baptism is part of it. But it's also to raise to what? To live, to live a new life, so that which is ongoing.

It's not just a one and done deal. We get to participate forever. So I think living hope is a hope that's not, it's a hope that it's ever increasing. we're always participating. What Paul says, it's from one degree of glory to another in 2 Corinthians 3. It's the idea of a progressive salvation, an ongoing salvation. It's not just one and done. We are participating in something that's bigger.

I think a good definition, though, getting back to the wish and hope would be, because when you look at the disciples, specifically Peter, since we're in his letters, you know, his whole life with Jesus was wishing Jesus would do something else or do something different, which is what was causing all the problems. And I think, you know, I didn't read this anywhere. It just popped into my head. But it seems like to me that most of the time when we're wishing, it literally has to do with us 100%.

Even some of those things you've put on that list that didn't seem to fit. you have money and love right beside each other, well, they couldn't be any more different. And I think when you're talking about hope, this is something that God brought to us and we get to experience rather than me wishing for some things in life that may give me some momentary pleasure. Same thing. They had fame and sex next to each other because people say, man, I wish I was famous because if I was, man, I would be having sex with all these beautiful people. And I mean, it's the same concept when it's when it's viewed from that perspective. And I thought your initial definition was pretty good, Jay, that wish is pretty much you realize it's not going to happen.

And hope is like, I really think this will happen because I have a firm oath. I think that's pretty good. How many of those on that list that you gave, how many of those things that people wish for are if you just boiled it all down to one word, it's it has to involved around power and money is power fame can be power sex is a lot about power i mean a lot of the things that were mentioned there were about power which which in the context of what peter's writing here he's writing to people who have no power they're completely and they're they're like at the mercy of the greatest superpower that has ever existed up into that point there's no there's never been a power like the roman empire you know up into this point and these guys that he's writing to

are subjugated to not just their power, their abusive power. And so I think a lot of what Jesus came to do was interesting because he had, Jesus truly had all the power and he gave himself up, which is the gospel, right? So I mean, I think there's a lot of people are uncomfortable with that, you know, because they're like, I'm not sure I want to serve a God who became weak and who died. But I think that's why you see in a biblical narrative, the wish would be much more associated with happiness, which was also on that list, whereas hope is much more associated with joy, which is two different things. Joy and happiness are quite different in how you arrive at either one. And so, you know, we think about happiness.

You think about it, well, if I wish I had, I wish I had married this person. I wish my husband was more like that. And again, you're getting back to things that somehow you're having. happiness is derived by something other than what God can do for you. And I think that's the difference, you know, in what happens here. Well, you read this text here we're talking about in 1st Peter 1, 3. He says, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we're lifting up who God is, the father of our Lord Jesus, who according to his great mercy,

has caused us to be born again to a living hope. through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to, this is what I was saying earlier, not just what we're saved from, but what are we saved to? We're saved to obtain an inheritance, which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

who are protected by the power of God through faith for a sound, salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. That's quite the sentence. Oh, my goodness. But you think, but you think about that, but when you hear this idea of, it won't fade away, it's very reminiscent of Paul's writing in 2nd Corinthians 3, I believe, when he talks about when Moses received the commandments and, you know, he met with God and his face was radiating the glory of God, so he would cover up his face.

and all this veil that was over him. And then it talked about in the spirit, like there's a new thing happening now, you know, with unveiled faces, it says, we behold the glory of God. And it talks about this fading away, not fading away.

And not only does not fade away, Paul says it's a, it's, we actually experience one degree of glory to another from glory to glory. And so thinking about like the, just the old covenant versus what was accomplished in Christ, it's an ever-increasing realization of the wonder and the beauty of who God is.

That's what life in Christ is. It's ever-increasing. You never get to the end of it and say, man, I finally got the end of God, and he was pretty awesome. You'll never get to the end of how big he is and how great he is. Yeah. Let's take a break. I think we've got to acknowledge that whether you're wishing or hoping,

you're basically expressing a desire for something, different from how it is now. If you just look at it like that. And so when you read this, what I see, the first thing that pops into my head is that, now yours said, I forgot the word it said, that this inheritance of the NIV says it is kept in heaven for you. There's some translations that says, guarded in heaven for you. You're reserved is what yours said.

It's reserved in heaven. But when I read that, I immediately think, well, this is guaranteed because it's, he has something different from right now for me in heaven. Which means it can't be destroyed. It can't be stolen. It can't. It's not going to be changed in anything. anyway. And so all of a sudden, I'm feeling a lot better about whatever this is, and I want it. You know, I want to receive that from God. Because, I mean, he said he gave us new birth into a living

hope, which means we haven't been granted the full extent of whatever this is. And he proved that through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead into an inheritance, they can never perish, fall, or fade. So that weeds out a lot of things on that list, Al, because money can fade or perish, or you can burn it up or I'm not sure what the other ones were. But, yeah, good health is going to end. If you're famous, that's going to end. Sex is going to end.

I mean, all of it. You're right. I had a conversation on the guy today that works with me on some stuff. And he also has some other clients. One of his client, his side business where he does like wealth management. And he was telling me about a side business. And he's got this guy he works with who was a very well accomplished surgeon. And he was saying that, you know, back in the day that this guy was like, I mean,

he was the most eligible bachelor in town, one of the most famous surgeon. the country and his life has just like just continued to go down and he's all alone now and to your point i mean how like there's an expiration date on all of that you know there's an expiration date on phil mentioned it last podcast was kind of what did you say phil you said uh if you die don't what was it don't cry for me yeah if you don't if when when i die don't cry yeah yeah because you get Yeah, but there's, I mean, when you said, we don't like to think about that kind of language, but there's an expiration date on all that. And, you know, I thought about the difference between like a godly passion and a worldly passion,

as a worldly passion diminishes over time. It does fade away. All of them do. You take whatever sin that you've been into. You have to do more and more of whatever the thing is to get the last high. And we've all been involved in recovery ministry enough, long enough to know that. Like no one, you don't get to the end of it, right? It just diminishes over time.

And godly passions are the exact opposite, that you become more sensitive over time to the work of the Holy Spirit, to the movement of God, to his presence. And your passions actually increase over time. I think it's one of the key marks of the difference in like a living hope and then like a dead hope because a dead hope is not attainable. It just dies. Yeah. Oh, no, I agree. I also think that when you think about this picture, he also referenced even the positive things that happened with his disciples. You remember when he gave them the ability to drive out demons and they were all excited and getting together.

This is before Jesus died and was bearing raise. And Luke 10, they came with joy and said, because we're, you know, in our passage in First Peter, he's finding joy despite sufferings because you have this living hope. and you're getting refinement of your faith while you're following and trusting Jesus, which really is what faith is. You're trusting him because you know through the resurrection, there's something they're kept for us. But even when they were doing positive things and they were excited, you would think he wouldn't chastise them a bit, but he did. In Luke 1018, he replied to their joy because of the demons were submitting to them.

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I've given you this authority to trample on snakes and to overcome all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirit submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. I mean, because here again, the pride that comes from having this power misused

ultimately gets your focus, away from what really matters, which is us living eternally with whatever these treasures are in heaven for us, which, I mean, I'm acting like I don't know, but that's what we're going to talk about. I mean, the eternal being a part of the God's eternal family in heaven is really ultimately where this lies. That is our living hope. And we talked about that. Jay's on the last podcast. You just defined the most of the epistles of the nests. New Testament was them, the early Christians, especially not understanding the point you just made,

that it was more than the things you could do or the cool things that God allowed you doing the side. Because what's going to happen to all these people, they healed and they drove the demons out? They still, they're still going to live life. They still, what if they still die? What if they suffer? You know, I mean, Lazarus was raised from the dead. I'm pretty sure he died later, you know.

So if that's your goal and to be caught up in these momentary joys of life, even in a positive thing. It's still, you're missing the point of God is bigger than that. The plan is bigger than that. And your name is in heaven written. And there's an inheritance kept there for you by God, guarded, that's waiting on you. So I would think that that would be something that could define a living hope that you're participating in.

I want to read to a text, Jay, that goes along just with what. you said, it's from Hebrews chapter 6 that we studied. We did Hebrews. It starts in verse 17, because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised. He confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf.

He has become a high priest forever. And so it's that same concept that we talked about when we were painting those pictures of the shadows of the old covenant to the new, is that Jesus went into that Holy of Holy, into that place where no man could go, and he took us with him, and that's why the hope is anchored there. And that's why it's a living hope. Because we live as he lives, right?

That's why he, because if you listened to the last podcast, you said, well, I thought this was all going to be about suffering. Well, it is. But he's laying a foundation for how you view that. I mean, this, Which is hope. Yeah, we have a living hope. Why?

Because Jesus Christ raised from the dead. Well, what happened right before Jesus was raised from the dead? He suffered mightily. And even, and he wasn't like you would think of all people since he knew this was going to happen. I mean, what did he do when he was in the garden and when he was on the cross? He didn't say, oh, look, I'm just, this is the Lord's plan. No, it was excruciating. And he, you know, he was praying.

He was sweating blood. And, I mean, he endured that and he suffered. And we talked about this in the bonus time of the last podcast. He did it for us. I mean, that was the joy set before him during suffering was for us. Let's take another break. Not only that, Jay, from remember Hebrews 13, he suffered disgrace outside the camp. So, I mean, he took on the sin, not just from the Jewish world, their perspective,

but everybody, everybody inside and everybody outside. Oh, no, that's great point. And he bore that suffering. Yeah, that's Hebrews 13. That's one of my favorite verses in the entire Bible because it encourages us to speak up about Jesus. And because you got to remember this, this whole letter that First Peter is about is really, you're not going to suffer if you're just quiet about Jesus. If you just go home, put it under your pillow, have a little life, all this persecution and all this suffering and all the things are going to happen is because they are vocal about who Jesus is. They're sharing Jesus.

That's where suffering comes from. And so I think that's great because that Hebrews 13, I'd like to read it in verse 12. It says, and so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make. make the people holy through his own blood. Let us then go to him outside the camp, burying the disgrace he bore. For here, we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. There's your living hope. Now, I love that.

And Zach, in the overtime before, we got into a pretty good discussion in the general sense. And I want you to revisit some of that about how that's suffering. which we're about to read in the next context, it is different, but it's for people because of whether they have this living hope anchored or not. And the ones that don't will use the same argument, well, hey,

this suffering, this proves there is no God. This, you know, this proves that he doesn't care about people. This, you know, these illnesses and these things these people are going to,

it shows that, you know, God doesn't care about you. And talk to some of that that we talked about in the overtime before, about just framing this kind of big argument about the difference in having a living hope versus not having one. Yeah, well, I mean, Jason mentioned that I forgot how he said it, but essentially, um, the folks when they,

when they, you know, talk about the presence of evil or bad things that are happening, and why would a good God allow these things to happen to me or to happen in the world? Um, by doing so, you're actually identifying that there is, there is, in fact,

good. G. K. Chesterson, I quoted him. He said in his book, What's Wrong with the World? He answers kind of briefly that we don't have a vision for what's right. And so there has to be an anchor. It's what Martin Luther King Jr. I can't remember if you, I don't know if you said in overtime or the last podcast, his letter from a Birmingham jail makes a very similar point when the appeals to Thomas Aquinas is kind of apologetic that there's got to be a standard. And there's got to be something that this thing is anchored on. If we're going to talk about good and evil or good and bad, right versus wrong. Like, these are, these are spiritual concepts that apart from God, we don't have, there is no

good or bad. We're just, as Richard Dawkins would say, we're just DNA propagating one's DNA as the sole purpose of our existence. It's a pitiless, pointless existence. And if there's no God, then there's no good or evil or suffering. What does that mean? Everything that happens is happening because of a prior state of. of physical reactions.

It's just the dominoes are falling. You know, one thing causes the next. There's no, like, moral agency. There's no right versus wrong. So when we say things like, man, a good God would not allow something bad to happen, we're actually at least testifying that there is something out there, some standard that we go by. And I think we can land in places like that because our mind can play

tricks on us. The Bible calls it futility of thinking. And Ephesians 4, it says this. I thought about this when we were reading this idea. I thought about this while ago we were talking about this never fading glory or this never, what is the term he uses here?

An undefiled, it's undefiled and will not fade away. Whatever this inheritance is, it will not fade away. Now listen to that, juxtaposed to what's going on with with the Gentiles in Ephesians 4, it says, don't be like the Gentiles who walk in the futility of their mind,

being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them because of the hardness of their hearts. And having become callous, that's an inheritance that fates, having become calloused for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness, in one translation says they've given them.

them, or here it says they become callous, having given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of purity and greediness. I think y'all's translation might say something like, with a continual lust for more. Does your say that in Ephesians 4? Yes. So you got, like, I think these two ways of thinking, one is we can be like the Gentiles and we can go after the things of the flesh. and it'll be greediness, all the things that, all the things we wish for, and it will be a

continual lust for more. You'll never get to the end of it. It will be like that guy in that movie about Lehman Brothers when they asked him what his number was, and he said more. There's a number. There's no end to it. It's just more. Or we go with what Peter's setting up here with a different kind of inheritance that

will not fade away. And so I think that's the big kind of thing that we're, struggling with in the even in the midst of suffering he's saying anchor yourself in something that's not going to fade anchor yourself into something that's not based on your position anchor yourself in something that's not based on your situation because hard times will come indefinitely to all of us at some point let's let's take another break well especially if you're being outspoken about jesus if you're taking first peter two you know 20 seriously they that Christ suffered leaving us an example that we should follow.

And I made the point that, you know, why did Jesus come down to earth? And, you know, without going through real time because God is eternal, he inserted himself in time through Jesus as a man. But I had asked you all a question about, you know, why did he do that? We read Hebrews 12, too, for the joy set before him, which was us. he suffered so that we could be saved. So, you know, when you tie that into Hebrews 13, when we go out declaring Jesus is Lord, suffering is going to happen. It's inevitable.

And that's what Peter's addressing to those who are scattered. I just made the point that in this letter to Peter, because you were saying you couldn't remember what I said that the world says, but it basically comes down to an argument. They're using suffering as a reason not to. believe in God. And we're reading that it's actually a way to have a deeper appreciation for what God has given us and our reliance on him. And so, because he inserts that right in the middle of all these great things in heaven because of the resurrection. Then he's like, although you're suffering. And so, and he actually uses it in a positive sense because it's like, but that suffering is

refining your faith and proving your trust genuine before God. You're actually coming out on the other side of it better. You have a deeper appreciation for it. And so my point was the argument basically that's out there against God is that if he's all powerful, how come he does it end suffering? just just just end it and the reason you know the other reason that comes from that is if you know if he's good he must not be good is is the the answer to that because if he was good he could he would just end end it all because this is this is horrible and and they use the same thing you know vice versa he's either if he was all powerful and all good that's not going to work when you had the reality of suffering.

Yeah. They're saying, they're saying, if God is all good, then if God is all good, he would prefer a world without any suffering. If God is all powerful, then he would accomplish the world that God wants. Therefore, either God is not all good or God is not all powerful. So that, that's like the argument. That is their best argument. And it, and it's clever. It's called the problem of evil, a problem of pain. Yeah, exactly. So. It's clever, but it's not accurate because Jesus came to suffer.

So God, he realizes the only way for salvation was suffering. Yeah, but that doesn't logically answer the question. The answer is this, like, because they would say, well, he could have just preferred, he could have just had a world where Jesus didn't have to suffer. But here's the kicker. Yeah, that's what they're leading out. Yeah. is that God, and this, honestly, well, I'm not going to say that.

I think it matters how we understand who God is in his nature. So who is God in this nature? I mean, I think God's primary attribute is what's in 1, John 4-8. God is love. I think wrath and justice and all those things are certainly attributes of God, but these are attributes that flow from his primary nature, which is love. The Bible says, God is love. What does it mean to love?

To love is to be relational. To love is to be in relationship. God is a relationship to a degree, if you think about it, these three persons in one being. And so it's a different kind of relationship than what we experience here because we can't understand that type of oneness, the type of relationship where it's impossible to commit adultery on one another or to use one another or to abuse or neglect or whatever.

That's impossible with God. And so God is love. And then he creates creation as an overflow of his love. So what does God want from his creation? Well, he wants love. Well, if he wants us to love him, then there has to be this thing called free will where we can actually choose to love God back or we can say, God, nah, I'm out on that. That's kind of the idea of relationships. And so the problem is, is that what God wants is a world where he can, where he is going to have creatures.

that he loves and that love him back that he's in relationships with. And so the evil doesn't come from God. The evil comes from our choices. We create evil. God doesn't create evil. We create evil. And that solves the problem of evil because it elevates in our minds what God is ultimately after, which is a relationship with his people.

Which is why he's relational. That's why he's relational in his existence. You know, he's three in one. can't have love without some other aspect to, because it's ultimately unselfish. Yeah. Well, he's, he's, he's, he's, God has been love in an eternal setting. So, because he's relational. Before the creation of the world.

Yeah, he is, there's other attributes of God. This is, there's other attributes of God that come into play when he creates, such as God's sovereignty. Well, I was just going to say that, you know, to quote James, For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder in every evil practice. So love, by definition, is unselfish. That's why when you read Paul's via the Holy Spirit definition of love, it's patient, it's kind, doesn't envy, doesn't boast, not proud, it is not rude. It is not self-seeking.

So when you just put that in there, it also says it keeps no record of wrongs. It doesn't delight in evil. So you have all these components. So when Jesus came down here to offer himself in an unselfish way for the redemption of our sins, because payment and atonement must occur, which is why he said, you know, obedience to Jesus sprinkled by the blood of Jesus. He started that off, right? It was the greatest act of love because he did it for us.

So he showed us that through suffering and the passion that he had for us, by us then surrendering to him, receiving his redemption and payment and atonement on the cross, we are then taught an appreciation for suffering because of our passion for other people. Because then we realize, well, wait a minute, there's other people out here who don't know this awesome act of love from the creator of the universe. But when you go do that, guess what? They're going to heap abuse on you. They're going to test you.

The people out there, what keeps coming up in my head, is the bigness, the bigness of all this. I mean, hundreds of billions, I say hundreds of billions. billions, 118 billion is what they say, have come and gone. You're talking about people? People. Yeah, so I guess it'd be 100 billion.

And if you just add them all up in the current world, we can see that on what goes on worldwide. Well, you go back 100 years, and then 500 years, you get back to when this was written with the Roman Empire and all that. the population explosion didn't happen for a while from the Roman Empire to right now in present day. In other words, the population of the world was not near as many. When God became flesh, died on the cross, was being raised from the dead. I mean, the population is way more now than when that happened. But still, what do you think? There's a mighty throng of people who died without any hope.

So you read these characters in the Old Testament and men of faith, you know, it's about a page or two. I mean, it's not many people. I mean, the ones you have gotten out of here alive, I'm telling you, boys, it's been a low number. compared to the people that's come and go. Hang on. Let's take our last break. Yeah, I was, when you were talking, Jase, you know,

you think about where the cross kind of plays into this, the greatest suffering that's ever occurred. The greatest suffering that's ever occurred was the passion of Christ. But not just physical suffering, but, I mean, he took on the sins of the world. Phil mentioned 118 billion people. Yeah. If that's how many people that have lived, that's how, so far, we know that 108, I mean, he carried the weight of the sin of the world.

So you talk about the greatest atrocity, the greatest suffering known to humanity. Yes. Was all experienced on that cross. Because he was innocent and he was, he left his position as the eternal God, which I keep going back to that point. Why did he come down here? What did he not have in heaven? It's the greatest wrong that ever healed. The greatest need.

Yeah. Even though he's eternal, by inserting himself into creation, you then had him leaving, you know, the place where he was completely comfortable if you're looking at it from a worldly point of view. But he did it for us, and I think that's why when you get to the end of this section that we're discussing, we're underestimating that word salvation because we've said that so much. it just has become kind of cliche. But when you really think your salvation means,

you're literally safe and sound throughout all eternity with a new body that's imperishable and nothing ever held against you and all injustices towards you made right. I mean, it's beyond your ability to comprehend. And I just want to read it in verse 10 when he says, consider this salvation. I know I'm skipping ahead, but I just want to make this point.

The prophets who spoke of the grace that was come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances in which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted, now here's this phrase, the sufferings of Christ, and I love this, and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, which is the point I was trying to make about being self-seeking, which is the exact opposite of what Jesus displayed. But you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. And I love this, because it says even angels long to look into these things. It was so awesome the salvation that Jesus brought that even the angelic world wanted to see this, wanted to see this rescue and this redemption and these eternal consequences for people entering the heavenly arena for eternity.

I mean, it was that big of a deal where the whole world, the whole cosmos, the whole spiritual world, sits on the edge of their seat watching this transpire. That was kind of the point I was thinking of it. It was a... It's just beyond. It's way beyond what we're thinking. It's beyond our comprehension. But in the context of suffering,

think about this salvation that Peter's talking about here. You know, you have suffering as a result of our free choice. We bring evil into the world, not God. Like we are, along with our, not our father,

but with our, who was our, you know, Father Satan before we were saved, is Satan and with us, we bring evil into the world. And so you think, why did Jesus come? Like, why did he have to die? Why did he have to suffer?

Because there had to be a payment. And I think this flows from his attribute of love because you think about if we're God's children and I have kids, and if you violate one of my kids, if you hurt somebody that I love, particularly my children, if I don't demand justice, If I'm just like, no big deal. And you just, I probably don't love my kids. And God's this, we're like God in that way as part of being made in his image is that God demands justice. Not it's he demands justice because he's love.

And a loving, only a loving God, a loving father would demand justice when his children are violated. The problem is, is that the people who violate God's children, guess who they are. They're God's children. And so then there's this idea, okay, then that's where mercy comes in. And all of this is accomplished. You know, God can satisfy his wrath at the cross. He can also dispense mercy at the same time. And I think he does all of this through suffering.

And it was a glory, not glory, it was a gory process of what Christ went through physically. And it was even more horrible of what he went through spiritually and emotionally. But he does this because he has a bigger goal in mind, which is to graft us into this inner life of God. I don't know if I would say that God, like, he didn't need us. He wasn't up in heaven thinking, man, I need some humans. I don't think that's why he created us. He didn't need anything. I mean, Acts says that.

Paul says that in Acts 17. He doesn't need anything. He's not served by human hands. That's not like God didn't create us because he was insecure. and he needed, he needed some worshippers. God created us as an overflow and an extension of his very nature. It's, it's a, I kind of view us as humans as a gift from God to himself because God's triune, you know, that God created us as a, almost like a gift to himself, not in a narcissistic

way, but like the father's given to the son, the son's given to the father. And that's kind of how I've viewed it. Well, I think, you know, I read these commentaries. about this phrase in 1st peter where it says when you in verse 7 you know speaking of trials that come in this life you know we have the inheritance at the forefront of our minds and the living hope because we've been born again but it says these have come so that your faith of greater worth and gold which perishes even though we're fine by fire may be proved genuine and may result in praise glory and honor when Jesus Christ has revealed.

What I was surprised at, that every person that I read from a commentary standpoint that I trust, I mean, you know, you kind of get the same guys that you feel like, okay, this is kind of in line with what I'm thinking. They all thought that this praise, glory, and honor was from Jesus toward us. And I thought that was interesting because I had never considered that. and you know kind of like the well done good and faithful servant but the point i'm making is the reason i'm bringing that up as in the case is you think about what causes people the most pain and suffering on the planet well is if you lose a child or you lose a family member and

you well without this living hope i'm not sure how you're going to get over this it's it's just something you can't get over but in view of that when you realize how great the offer is from god and that's why i referred to this quote from isaiah uh 25 7 and 8 that paul uses in 1st grentians 15 when he said in describing our new body from perishable to imperishable from uh what are the dishonor to glory, that those different things are new body. He gets to the end and he says, death has been swallowed up in victory. When you kind of think about that phrase, that doesn't mean you're not going to experience death. You're not going to be free from pain on the earth.

You're going to have suffering. People that you love are going to die. It's inevitable. But it's swallowed up in victory because of Jesus' resurrection. You then see just like he did when it says, the sufferings that he endured and the glories that followed. Well, then you have a deeper appreciation. You wouldn't have the appreciation to the extent that it is if you didn't experience

the pain of seeing the death or having the possibility of it. So when you start thinking, why, why, why is he doing this, there's a joy, and that is the common word that keeps coming up in all this, that you're going to experience because you know, the pain of which we wallow in this earth. And that was God's design. And so it's really joy in a form that's greater than it would be if there was no possibility of pain or suffering or mistakes.

If you didn't experience it, well, you wouldn't appreciate it. You get a few years on you, it didn't take many for you to stop and look around and you say, death is sweeping across the world continually and a lot. and a lot. Yeah. It just... But this fact is why these people, why Peter eventually said,

well, you go ahead and crucify me upside down. You know why? He understood the living hope in an intimate way. He knew that death didn't mean anything. That's right. You do what you got to do. The same way you read all these books about these martyrs and the Maccabians and all them,

and they literally, a lot of them went to their death with a smile on their face because their faith and their trust was so much into who Jesus is and the guarantee of what was going to happen next. Didn't phase him. All right, we're out of time. We'll flesh this out a little bit more in overtime. And so if you want to follow us over, this, blazediv.com slash unashamed.

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