Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 628 | Phil Refuses to Bow to Tyrants & Zach Learned Some Dark Things While Running for Congress

Episode Date: February 8, 2023

Phil knows who holds the real power – and refuses to honor those who deny him. Zach learned some dark truths during his failed congressional campaign, and the guys tease each other about their successful and not-so-successful preaching methods. The guys illustrate what it means to be “free” under God’s law and offer some advice to those who aren’t sure what the heck is going on in American society.  In this episode: 1 Peter 2, verses 13-25; 1 Peter 3, verse 15 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, so we're back at it on unashame. So Zach, did you preach this last Sunday? I did. Yeah, we're going through a vision series. By the way, folks have asked if, you know, any of my stuff's online. So we just started putting our lessons online. So you guys can check that out. swananoa christian no what is it swananoa cc.com but yeah it was funny because i we got done

jill was like oh i said man that was way too long so i don't know if that's ever happened have you ever gone a little bit too long in your in your sermon as that just me well how long did you go i think it was probably over 50 something minutes under an under an hour over 50 50 and i wasn't even aware of it i was like well you know And typically I'm very aware of when I'm teaching or preaching. I know what the time is. I can read the audience. And I just got into it.

And I got to thinking, I was thinking, what's the culprit? I think the culprit is the podcast is about 50. What is our, what's our time on the podcast now? Well, with it, it's like 48 minutes, but then with overtime, it's over an hour. It's 15. I think I'm like, I've been formed through this. It's hard for me to communicate now. in 30 minutes because jace has trained me to chase these rabbits and i believe this is this my fault

i mean uh well i do events or i you know i've suspended my events this year because i'm filming and we're doing the podcast and uh but so they usually give me an hour to do a speech but now that's a different situation because you're there's you know you're going everybody's they eat or whatever they do and you get up, you give a presentation, and half of my presentation is funnies and I do the duck call seminars. It doesn't seem like an hour speech, even though it is. But if I speak at a church building on Sunday morning, I just realize that most churches are catered to about 30 minutes. So it doesn't matter. I mean, I attempt, I have gone over before.

and I tend to blame the Spirit of God. Say, well, you know, but 50 minutes, I think Missy would raise her hand. When we get to 45, she would raise her hand, and I would probably call on her, and she would say, stop talking. Because the Spirit is telling you to shut it down. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, the spirit inside of me is telling you shut it. down. I have a bodyguard who walks up and he puts a piece of paper in front of me.

And it says five, five, m, minutes, five minutes. When I see that, is that to wrap it up? That wraps it up.

I look down there and look at that. And I'm like, and I quickly wind it up. And the bodyguard is armed. So, you know, he's got that going for him. Well, I'll say this about our church, though.

I'm grateful that we have a body because we talk a whole lot about, we talked about this a few weeks ago in the podcast. Like, we're not lifting up a pastor or an elder. So when I got done, I mean, people made fun of me about it. But what the funniest part was Max, my 17-year-old was on the worship team that day. And I was unaware that there was like, you know, they were discussed, like, when's he going to wrap this up? So Max just gets up there and starts playing like the music behind me.

Oh, that was the message right there. That was your, but you just kept going. I mean, that didn't even. I don't know. That's what bothered me about it. It wasn't, I think it was a great sermon, but I'm like, the fact that I wasn't aware, I don't know that just, it shook me up. Yeah, well, it should have.

I think that's good. I mean, because I think people have to hold you account. We tend to be long-winded I have. So I set accountability measures in. But now, Zach, are you? you are rotating guy at your church? Yeah.

So we got, there's about four of us that rotate through. We got one guy that's, that's paid pastor, and he preaches, he's honestly our best preacher. I mean,

so if you go, if you go to the website and listen to me, you actually should listen to he said. Because I noticed that what happens is just by way of people doing this weekend and week out.

If you're like a rotator, like we have, you know, Larry Bowles, who's on the podcast a few times. So Larry is intermittent at Belfar. So what happens is when he preaches, and Larry, you know, I mean, he puts a lot into his material.

I mean, he's a thinker. And so a lot of times he'll go long because he just has so much material. He just, he overprepairs really for his time slot. And so sometimes he'll go like that. He'll go super long. And we'll laugh about it. Yeah, we'll laugh about it afterwards. But it's because you're not up all the time.

You feel like you got to get it all in. That's right. Because I got it. It's very difficult to hold someone's attention for over about 30 minutes. It is tough. No, it is. And I mean, I'm telling you this, you'll know whether it was too long because what they kind of, I've noticed these church leadership teams, they kind of function like a baseball pitching staff.

And because you have some that are good for the long term. And some, you know, it's just a closer type role. So if you get demoted in your role, that was a sign that that was way too long. Because they'll give you some lingo because they don't want to just crush you. They'll say, we think you're better served as a closer. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'll be the closer. I'll come and then throw some fireball. Yep, you got one inning.

You know what you really would be good at? Yeah, you would be really good at doing the communion portion. Exactly. That's a closer role. In baseball terms, in baseball terms, that's the specialty guy. So we got a left-handed batter, and we need a guy to come in and just get him out. We need a left-handed specialty guy. All we need you to do is get one out.

And so that means you come in and get that communion message, three minutes, tops, and then we're done. But there are churches, though, and I think it's what are you expecting? Because there are churches, a lot of the sermons I listen to online are 45 minutes. plus, you know, but it's, I think you're prime for that. You know what you, you know what you're getting going into it. And yeah, so we're typically, our, our, our sermons are typically between 30 and 40 minutes. Well, I'm speaking to people who are visiting the majority of them. They're visiting there.

Some are visiting there because they, in fact, just want to obey the gospel. So they come there. So I'm speaking them primarily. to people I've never seen before every Sunday. I've never seen them before. So how long will you go? How long will you?

30 minutes. I'm oblivious to the time. Sometimes they go 15, 20 minutes. He's waiting only five minutes from the... 15 or 20 minutes and they can talk about coming. Yeah, sometime 30, but to go, you know, sometimes, maybe 40, but most of the time I just cover the material, but it's the same material.

Jesus died was buried and raised from the dead. By the way, just to tell the audience, so it's called the Unashamed Bible Study, and we do it every Sunday at 9 a.m. at WFR. So if you're ever in our area, you're always welcome to come check it out. If somebody raises their hand and say, I'd heard or not, I'll close the Bible.

I said, okay, see you next time. If they ever do that. Well, I didn't realize anybody could stop you. Well, I think if people are getting up leaving, you know, it's probably time to shut it down, you know. I mean, it's biblical. Wasn't it Peter or Paul? Who was preaching where the guy fell asleep?

That was Paul. That was Paul. He went to sleep and fell out. But he raised it from the dead, but I don't have the power to do that. So we ought to just shut it down. Yeah, I'm not that long wind. That's a good point. I should have just told all the dissenters that you at the church.

I should have just said, look, it could be worse. I didn't kill anybody, you know. Well, and then I've heard preachers. I've heard preachers use that story and brag about it. that he just kept on preaching, you know, after he raised him from the dead. And I thought, yeah, but you can't raise him from the dead. Well, my response to that would be Jesus, I know and Paul I've heard of, but who are you? Who are you?

That's exactly right. Shut it down. So, hey, to quote Carl Allison, if you hadn't said what you got to say in 30 minutes, go home and write a book. Or he said, from an old man. perspective. He said, if you hadn't struck all in 30 minutes, quit boring. It may be some truth of that. And then Bill Smith used to say, Bill Smith used to tell us, the mind can only endure what the posterior can endure. And there's a lot of truth of that as well.

Well, let me tell you what my dad told me when I got done. He said, man, that was the best three sermons you've ever preached. That was his line, my own father. He said, That's the best three sermons you've ever preached. That's so, well. Yeah, you just had a lot going on there, is that? That's what happened. You got all swept up. You had more than one sermon.

Yeah. It happens. So to answer your question, yes, I did preach. Well, good. I'm glad that you do. And we all enjoy it. And, you know, and we do encourage you guys to check it out, whether it's Zach's at Swan on OCC or ours at WFR Church.

That's just some land yap when we, get to do these sermons. We're actually preaching through First Peter right now at WFR as well as what we're doing here on the podcast. So that's a little more if you want to see Mike or myself or LB. We'll try to get work Jason there once in as well. We get him off the road. We're in First Peter, speaking of which. We kind of last podcast kind of went back through the setup text. And, Jace, you were you were giving us a little. a little bit of a sermon you heard speaking of sermons. And we barely got into it.

So I'm hoping you'll give us the rest of that sermon. Maybe go back and set it back up again. Was it one of Keller sermons? Yeah, it was. It was called the Freedom of Submission. And it addresses with this, really specifically the verse in 1st Peter 2, where it says, where is that, 1st Peter 2, live as free men. Yeah, verse 16, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil.

Live as servants of God. So it just seems to be a paradox of, are we free? I mean, the 13th says, submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority institute among men, whether to the king or the supreme authority or to governors who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. for it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil. Live as servants of God.

So then he goes on to say, show proper respect to everyone. Love the brotherhood of believers. Fear God, honor the king. Servants, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh, for it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he's conscious of God. And then he says, you know, there's another verse that's real hard to get, you know, your head around.

How is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong or sin and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called. And then he goes into this beautiful example of Christ suffering for you, leaving you an example. that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin, no deceit was found in his mouth. When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate. When he suffered, he made no threats.

He entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed, for you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls. So, you know, just to kind of recap the sermon that I heard with this freedom of submission is, you know, there's an idea out there that in the world that you can live a free life outside of God and have no restrictions. But when, you know, we address that, we basically, the sermon that I heard and we all agreed on that there's two assumptions the Bible makes, you know, premise one is that. that this freedom doesn't exist. You're a slave to something.

There's something that's leading you around by the nose. And a lot of times that idea that you're going to be free from all restrictions and rules and restraints. And it is just a cover for being selfish is basically what it is. And premise too is any commitment brings restrictions. And so we kind of delved into those. And we also use the example of, you know, 1st Corinthians 9 when Paul said that even though he's free, he becomes a slave to everyone so that he may win some. So basically what Keller said just when you say, what is this kind of freedom talking about? It's finding the liberating restrictions, you know, in Christ.

And so in your relationships that trickle down to that. And the illustration that I think we kind of honed in on was like a fish in water. He was designed to be there. And he quoted a book that, you know, was about a fish trying to free himself and get to land. But once he got there, he found himself gasping and looking for air and dying because he was out of the element God created him to do. And I think it was a really profound illustration because, you know, God, God created us for him, if you're a believer, full service to God, just like you wouldn't buy a vehicle that says diesel only and say, well, you know, I'm just going to be free.

I want to be free. I'm going to put gas in mine because it's cheaper. Well, guess what's going to happen? You're not going to go for it. It's going to blow up. So that's the concept. It's finding these liberating restrictions. And in the beauty of that, when you look at the example of Jesus, who.

by our terms was free above all, he restricted himself by becoming human. And why did he do that? It was based on love. So I wanted to introduce, that was kind of the overview, but I wanted to introduce, he used three things that found in First Peter that God's grace through Jesus frees us from. And the first one was intense desires. And you find that in, you know, There was one reference in us.

I noticed it in 1st Peter 2. I'm not, I didn't have that written down. Where is that? Oh, in verse 11. Yeah, I urge you as alien and strangers in the world to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

Well, notice what he says in 1. Peter 4. And really this idea is coming from, and y'all've heard this from multiple people. When people who are, you're sharing Christ with them and they're like, look,

I have this problem. I just can't help it. I can't control myself. You know, or people say, I have a bad temper. There's nothing I can do about it. Well, God's grace and the new birth and the power of the Holy Spirit frees us from these over desires, the intense desires that you don't think that you, that you're a slave to, really.

So look at 1 Peter 4.1 and 2. I love this. Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is freed from sin, or is some translate is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. And he kind of goes through this process of the old self and the new self here.

And we'll get into that in more detail when you get there. That's critical, critical right there. So that's the first one. The second one, then we'll comment about, see what y'all think. The second one, he frees us from controlling anxiety. And you just think about how we're let around, you know, with anxiety that is to a point to where we can't function, paralyzing anxiety, I guess. And he addresses that in chapter 5 and verse 6, humble yourselves, therefore under God's mighty hand that he may lift you up in due time. cast all your anxieties on him because he cares for you.

So when you think about that, you have evil desires, control us, enslave us. You have all these anxieties. I made the illustration, I think in overtime from Jeremiah, too, about any focus in your life that you give your energy, your time, your passion, it's whatever's enslaving you. Even if it's good, I mean, it may be your spouse. ultimately will be a broken cistern. God is the only true eternal peace that you will find because, one, he's eternal, and two, he's all just. While you're there, I wrote down somewhere before, love the brotherhood.

Well, that's going to be my third point. So let me say that. The third thing is we're free to serve people, and this is an understanding of love, because when he said love the brotherhood, well, you have a commitment to what, love God and love people. So through that, you understand the restrictions that come along with this newfound freedom. So that's basically it. So go ahead. So he backs off a little, if you look carefully, and we see it in our current situation,

two thousand years from the time this was written. one show proper respect to everyone love the brotherhood of believers you say that can be achieved fear god that can be achieved the one i would think i struggle with along with everybody else is honor of the king now right up above that submit yourself for the lord's sake to every authority instituted among men whether to the king, to the supreme authority, governors. So these man-made governmental constructs, I have somewhat of a problem with honoring them because of their behavior and the anti-God structures of a lot of things, the education system and this and that and other and all this current thing about men changing into women

presto you know well i think ultimately i have a hard time yeah honoring that kind of behavior but i think most people when they talk about first peter and they get into this they start getting into worldly situations but you got to remember the context of this was these are people who are putting their faith in trust and they're going to be vocal about jesus and there's going to be a lot of suffering occur from the government, from the emperor. Yeah. And he's just saying, look, here's the example of what Jesus did for you, which is the biggest. He didn't rebel against him.

It's the biggest injustice there is. And what he's offering you is an inheritance and being a part of a kingdom that can't perish or fade or spoil. And there's going to be moments in your life. You're going to suffer. and basically put it to love the brotherhood you know fear god then then he says honor the king maybe i'm wrong but for the elected officials in a constitutional republic and you're looking at both parties and you're trying to separate the good from the bad it it's just uh it's just difficult

Yes. It is difficult, and I struggle with that too. I mean, some of you all know, like I ran for U.S. Congress in 2014. I got into the underbelly of a lot of the Republican conservative side. And I mean, honestly, I know it's not popular, but I mean, there's a lot of darkness in all of politics. And you look at it and you think, man, what do we do? How do you honor it without engaging and about caving in? and being far, I mean, evil behavior. Yeah, I don't think you have to endorse the behavior. I mean, I think, well, you look at, you look at what's going on here, though. I mean, the grip of the Roman Empire was certainly pretty debauchous. And I think it's speaking to a spirit that you embody. You know, when he says here in 1st Peter 3, this is skip forward just a little bit,

he says, be prepared. Where's that at? Be prepared to give an answer. Well, that's 1st Peter 3. 15, I think. I'm not going to get a stick, a stick that says, you know, do away, marching down the street, shutting down, breaking in the stores, looting, shooting, burning. I'm not dishonoring authority to that point.

I'm not going to do that. I don't think so, but think about the posture that we're called to here. It's like endure suffering, even when, like, you're being oppressed. It's like endure it with a certain type of quality and a certain type of character and a certain type of posture. And then there's this like space. Then you're prepared and you're ready. You're ready in this posture to give a defense to everyone who ask you to give an account for the hope that is in you. Now, my question is, well, why would they ask me about the hope that's in me?

Well, because I've been living out the Spirit of Christ. I've been suffering in a way that they're like, that doesn't make sense. So that's inviting the question, hey, tell me about why are you different? What's going on with you? But even in our response, even in our defense, I love this because it really keeps us in balance. We do it with gentleness and reverence. And we keep a good conscience so that the thing in which you are slandered, those who revel your good behavior for Christ, we put to shame. So I think the way this honoring goes down, it's not the January 6th, you know, storming the Capitol.

It's not, you know, protesting in Portland. It's not all of that. I mean, to your point, it's not to pick it. And I know that people get mad when you say this stuff. I mean, I just don't see it in the Bible. I see that we're called to an elevated spirit. And I'll be the first one to admit, like, I have struggled with this. I have struggled with getting so angry that I forget.

I kind of forget that whole thing about this kingdom that we're a part of that can't be shaken or destroyed. I'm like, oh, I forgot about that kingdom, the one I'm really a part of. And I'm so invested in this other kingdom that to the point where I'm willing to sell this one out. I think we, I think going back to what Jay said there, that's, that's, that's bondage. That's not freedom. That's not freedom to be always like, like, outraged about everything and angry about everything. I think we're called to something more beautiful. It's a broken sister.

You said that. I may I said this in the last podcast. I can't remember if I said this or not with Mark Sayers. I think it was Mark Sayers that said the focus is worship. And somebody else said that attention is the beginning of adoration. What you give your attention to is what you'll ultimately adore. And what you focus on is what you're actually worshiping. and you had mentioned these broken cisterns.

I mean, that's what that is. It's like I'm going to, you're focus in your container. I've got my container here. This is how I'm doing. This is what I'm ingesting. That's going to become what you ultimately worship. And that's why I think that consuming the Word of God, focusing on the Word of God, focus on a spirit of Jesus that we could suffer with him. I mean, that's ultimately true freedom is to be free.

from that. Well, that's what, yeah, that comes from that, you know, Jesus at the will. And, you know, anything outside of an eternal God is going to be a broken sister. It's, it's, that's why he said this is a living hope. It's, this is eternal. This is, uh, something you can trust because his truth is 100% right. It gives you confidence and freedom in to know what to do and how to do it because he's, he's right. I mean, you just thinking, you're saying, you're saying, you're saying, you're saying, about that if you had the way to do anything and you could trust that it was 100% accurate the best way to do anything in life well that gives you some confidence and some freedom what he's addressing is you're going to suffer because of that and it doesn't mean I don't love you and it doesn't

mean that you know you're not going to be okay it's just ultimately this is how it is in a world of sin and evil. But that brings up a good point. I find it difficult to honor people like the big dog in Russia, the big dog in China, the big dog in North Korea. Communists have taken over and the leader of these, whatever you want to call them, that it's just hard for me to look at these,

countries that are, the man has a boot on your neck and just, I mean, ripping the people. The church amazingly, the kingdom of God is in all these countries. Well, that's the point, Phil. I mean, that verse that Zach read, the first part of that is in your heart, set apart Christ as Lord. I mean, that is the foundation for where we make decisions into this, and we've all shared our experiences in some of these third world countries and some of these countries. and some of these countries, you know, these communist countries that we've been trying to get the gospel in,

which is dangerous. But we're also not saying, let's go build some bombs. That's right. You see what I mean. I mean, I think that's what he's kind of getting. I love them as human beings, but to honor them, I have a struggle with that. I mean, it's a spiritual war. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.

So that I think that's... Because he listens to the words, though. He says, submit. in authority, respect everyone, honor the king. But then he says, fear God. And so he didn't say fear any of them. He says fear God, which means if I fear God, I'm going to do what God asked me to do. Now, if any of those asked me to go against what God has told me to do, I'm going to say no, right?

And that may mean there's a price to pay. if the government says do this and God says no don't do that then there's going to be as jace mentioned that I may have to suffer yeah when you look at Daniel and you saw when the king said Daniel you have to do this and Daniel said no I'm going to serve God and so what did Daniel do he went in the lion's den right yeah shadnap shadnet shadda and abet to bed to go went into the fiery furnace yeah but that was another in the fire to quote exactly exactly Exactly. So the point is, I think in our constitutional republic, I think we're striking the right balance because on this podcast, we honor God, we fear God. We say things we don't agree with, whether it's with our government or anything else.

But we still are honoring. Someone sent me a note and said, hey, you're going to the cap on January 6th? I said, no. I mean, they were genuinely saying, hey, won't you come and go? And I said, no, that's not my thing. I'm not, that's not the way I roll. I mean, but at the same time, if there are things I don't agree with, I speak about them publicly. You know why? Because I'm an American. I have a First Amendment right to say things I don't agree with.

I still honor if I meet President Biden, I'm going to be respectful. I wouldn't be disrespectful to the president of the United States, even if I disagreed everything with these head, you know? Yep, exactly. Yeah, that's why I think it's a spirit that we embody it more than a, because I think the easy pathway is to is to not be ready to have it. fence. The easier pathway is let's go land blast everybody and let's create a us versus them. Let's do a whole. I'm like, man, like, I think about this. I read this in the book recently that God made the point if we truly believe that everybody in the world is capable of the potential to be redeemed outside, of course, like the devil and is demons, but I mean like humans, everything has the potential for redemption, then things aren't quite as.

is like us versus them. Like everybody like like we can like we want to move the kingdom forward. And I think that like it's it's not a sacrificing of truth. You know, going back to Jason's point at first being this 13 about what is love from earlier podcast. Now you read that list. Love is patient. Love is kind.

It's not easily angered. Yeah. So you have kind of that stuff right there where it's like man, don't like this go blow up on people. It's like you know, like like be long suffering with people. And the question, what about truth? What about truth? Well, that's in there too.

Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices in the truth. And so I think to embody a spirit of love is to wrestle with the tension of all these things. We do have to stand on truth. We do have to tell what is reality. We can't buy into a false reality that's constructed by humans. We submit, as believers, we submit to Christ, and he is the author of reality. But in that, we do it in a way that the world can attack us. At least they can slander us.

But in the back of their minds, when they see us suffering with Christ and for Christ, they're like, man, something's different. They're going to know something's different. So I think it's about a tone and a spirit that we are to embody. And I'm not saying I've got to figure it out. This is what I'm working towards in my own life. You know, how I engage politically, how I engage in any respect with an employer, with a client, with whatever. I need to embody this, even when we're done wrong. And I appreciate Dan.

I appreciate Dad talking about just the honesty that it is a struggle, especially when we see people oppressed. When we see our brothers and sisters around the world under communism or under some dictator being oppressed, it's hard. It's hard to honor moments like that. So that's the struggle of the human condition. I mean, when we see Satan in such control. of people. It's difficult. These texts are hard. But, I mean, Peter is giving us the ultimate example in Christ. I mean, how hard was it for them to watch Jesus suffer on the cross? I mean, it was hard for everybody to watch that. Even though we know now, that's exactly why he came to do it.

So if it were easy, someone else could have done it, but it wasn't easy. That's why God had to come do it. I have a hard time honoring pilot, too. You sure what I'm saying? Yeah. Exactly. But the key thing is you can't detach Jesus. I mean, Peter's point was your view in this as those who have surrendered to the Lord. Christ is your Lord. You're trying to find how Jesus would operate in this situation. If you use that filter in all these situations, I think it'll keep you from a lot of meaningless conversations about worldly politics.

And it- Jesus did honor him by what the conversation you had with him. He wasn't banging on him, you know, like, hey, you know, you're standing in the way of the son of God here. No, it was not. He just, a lot of time, just kept his mouth shut while Pilate was ranting and raving about this and that and the other. You know what I'm saying, Al? Yeah, that's right. But I think, look, these things that God has freed us from, these intense desires that are not righteous,

evil desires, and we all struggle with them, and all the anxieties of life. Because, I mean, if you're watching the news and you just have the anxiety meter off the charts, well, you don't need to have a position on politics. You need to find your peace in what Jesus did for you in God's plan for your life. That's the way, I mean, when you read that tech, we've read it so much, it just loses its impact. but you think about how much anxiety happens in our life, especially over, you know, going to the doctor or the worldly conditions.

And, I mean, you have a plain passage here that Peter said, cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. I mean, we're giving that to him. No matter what the situation. And he, I'm appreciative that Peter went down the road of some of the worst situations you could be in. I mean, getting beatings for not doing anything wrong and injustice. and he's just saying, look, because you think about everybody in the history of the world,

there's been some believers who were in very difficult situations. Well, there was one guy, there's one guy that he mentions right here in the middle of it, verse 21, who endured the worst suffering of all. Exactly. He says, if you've been called for his purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in his steps. So I think that's the key verse of this whole. area of scripture is that he's giving these potential and not just potential, these realities

of current suffering. And that he's saying, hey, this is how you should conduct yourself in that. But right in the middle of it, he's like, you know, Jesus suffered as an example to follow. And I think that's the, that's, you know, no pun intended. That's the crux of the matter here that we don't want that because we can't contain it. But we have to ask ourselves this question. And I think it's a good question that we've been ranting on the other stuff. Guilty as charge.

But how has it worked out for us? I mean, we're not, when you leave the kingdom, like what God established was it was a political ethnic kingdom that God turned upside down and turned to a different kind of kingdom that was not political. But what's funny about it is that when people are affected by this kingdom and as this kingdom grows, there are. there are political consequences. For example, the abolishment of slavery was a result of God's kingdom. You know, like, you think about, like, the kingdom does move in profound ways, and it does have political implications down the road. I mean, you look at where we're at politically now versus where we were at, you know,

back when it was in the day of the monarch. You know what I mean? I mean, we've made progress in areas. It's not, it's there are a lot of sickness and communism has killed. 100 million people and there's things like that that are horrible. But my point is, is that it's reframing it in a new light. And there's more commitment to freedom, you know, in certain parts of the world than there have been in the pasture.

Right. And even the American experiment was founded with the right principle and even founded on godly principle. And of course, you know, again, we see what happens. Satan, he wasn't just making stuff up when he took Jesus up on that high, mountaintop and said, look, they're all bowing down to me. Jesus didn't dispute that. So, I mean, people still bow down. And that's why Jesus said in John 8, they belong to their father, the evil one. So, I mean, Satan is still alive and well, that's why you still

see all those elements that you see that you mentioned that. Yeah, going back to what Jace was talking about just on a personal level, I was thinking about the three, the three, things that he mentioned from Keller, that the first two were what you're freed from. And then I love that he adds the last part of what you're something you're free to. So you go from from to two. You're freed from intense desires, which we've talked about a lot the last several podcasts about just how that does, that can truly enslave a person is these intense desires, which I would argue is a lot of times the basis for the, for the uncontrollable anxiety.

right? I'm in this thing over here and I don't want to be exposed. And so I've created a world around me where I've got these fig leaves. I've got these coverings. And the anxiety comes from the fear of being exposed. But when you're in Christ, you don't fear being exposed because, as we're going to see, in just a second here, like, we're connected with the death, barren resurrection of Jesus. You know, we're saved by the resurrection.

So I'm connected with his gospel is what my baptism symbolized. And so when someone comes to me in an accusation, I'm like, yeah, it was never about me in the first place. I just point to Christ. So I can be freed from the fear of being exposed because I'm covered. I'll never be exposed. I'm covered in Christ, which I think is then that's what allows us to be free to have relationships with one another and find intimacy with each other because it's not based on performance. If I was arrested by the, if I was arrested by our personnel that run the government and all, I would just preach the gospel best I could wherever they jail me.

You see what I'm saying? Well, I think that's what these guys wind up doing. Yeah. But it shows you that really love is the fuel to God's design. Because he summed it up saying love God and love your neighbor. so when you're free to understand how to do that in Christ is my point. I would also add in, Zach, that those anxieties or those intense desires are trying to feel something and that anxiety is I can't get it feel.

That's why Paul would say in Philippians 4, 6, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and petition with Thanksgiving present your request to God. and the peace of God, which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. So the only way you achieve that peace, that covering you were talking about comes from having that fulfillment that you get in Christ. And that's where those anxieties then go where what do people do when they're delivered from those intense desires? They want to help other people be delivered. That's when you start loving people. That's why some person that's been delivered from a certain thing in their life.

They want to go help other people be delivered. Why? They want them to find the same piece of mind they found. And so they know the pathway. They know where to find peace. Which is the bigger point. I think that's going back to this submitting to government authorities and all that. I think that's the bigger point here.

Like, if you get too bent on the earthly stuff, the earthly kingdoms, like, what if it doesn't go your way? Because for a lot of people, it has not gone their way. You know, for the 20 million people that were murdered in Russia under communist regimes, it did not go their way, but yet the underground church there thrived, or in China, or in all these areas of the world, or even in the text here, the Roman Empire, the first fierce persecution that broke out against the church, like, or even an axe, what is it, an axe at the Stoning of Stephen, and then it says a intense persecution broke out against the church and they scattered and all these things happened. I'm like, what about those people? They had no control over the geopolitical structure, but yet somehow the kingdom, exploded. And not only did it explode, I have to think that the kingdom had, there was a peace that probably surpassed all understanding, right? I think that's the freedom, is that my peace of mind and the, I guess, the removal of my anxiety is not ultimately dependent on anything other than what Christ

has finished for me on the cross. Yeah, because you've got to remember these people, I mean, there were some of them being fed to animals for entertainment. They were being lit up as torches. I mean, Christians burned at the stake. I mean, you start reading all of this stuff that happened. Well, it would make you just because we're humans question whether God was for you. Because you're like, well, I mean, why wouldn't God save me from this, you know, which is the reason. and I think this letter is in here.

I mean, the bottom line is just because you're out there living for Jesus being out loud and, you know, on purpose or however you want to categorize that, does it mean that the world is going to accept that as, I mean, they're liable to do unimaginable things to you to shut you up, especially since we're in this spiritual war. I mean, you're using all these, you know, these things. it says it wars against your soul. Well, you know, war is ugly in any context.

And I just think that he's trying to provide some comfort. If you were going through this in your world, because it's hard for us to read this and put it in the context because we're pretty comfortable here in America, you know. But if you were going through this and you read these types of passages, I mean, I guarantee you tears would be flowing down your cheeks and you would really be saying, you know what, I'm going to trust the Lord in there.

It would be very difficult to do, but I guarantee you there's some people that have gotten a lot of comfort from these words. No doubt about it. Well, and to Zach's point, you know, I just look back over my lifetime, you know, from a political perspective. And, you know, you'll see a dictator in some country, Middle East or somewhere. And you'll see, you know, obviously they're selfish and they live an opulent life. and there's poverty in their country. And so we've had, you know, for the course, just in my lifetime, you'll have someone in our government say, well, you know, we need to topple this regime and because, you know,

they're not fair, blah, blah, blah, come up with all the reasons. And so it happens, you know, through our efforts and the efforts of other people. And then all of a sudden, factions take over and the situation is much worse than it was at the beginning because these human attempts to fix this government situation are worse than it was at the beginning. And I always think that's what happens when humanity thinks that they can fix these complex situations. Typically, they don't know what's best.

And so you can look at it from afar and say, you know, I think we can go in and fix this situation. And what you have is something worse at the end than it was at the beginning. And so that's what happens with human wisdom. It's just not godly wisdom. Well, I wanted to say that, you know, two of the things that at the end of this lesson I heard from Keller that he pointed out as like a practical way to understand the freedom, you know, where the spirit of the Lord is, even, you know, in finding these liberating restrictions, as he put it, which I thought was a good way to put it, is that you realize that we're standing on the promises of God as a believer. that that's one and number two is based on that we're not afraid to make promises because that's the problem of the world saying oh we just want to be free we don't we don't want to have anybody

tell us what to do no restrictions well the result of that is you don't you don't make any promises to people you don't have any commitment when you look at our culture and our society what's the problem. I mean, over 50% of the marriages in divorce. You look up, there's kids without, you know, a father. Because none of these promises are being made. Why? Because they're like, well, I just want to be free. I don't want to be held back. I don't want to be. And you realize that what God is offering is the exact opposite. There is a freedom that love becomes the fuel where it's an unselfish act of commitment because you love people and you're based on your whole premise on the love of God. And you see a way better culture as a result.

And so you're not afraid to make promises. And then the second thing is you focus on Jesus on the cross, which is ultimately the injustice that freed us all from sin. And as a result, freed us from the fear of the grave, which ultimately gives you the greatest freedom on earth. Because it takes care of your guilt, takes care of your fear of death. It puts every atrocity in life in perspective. The truth that sets you free, Jay.

Exactly. And he embodied it. Yep. Which takes you back to that belonging that we talked about earlier, which is where you get into that chosen, royal priesthood, holy nation. All that set up, this concept of this is why he said you are all these things so that you would be ready for the salvation that he brought you. powerful stuff.

We're out of time, but in our overtime, I want to explore a couple of things that we didn't get into at the end of it because it was just so good. But the party talked about with Jesus, because we talked about it as an example of suffering. But in that text, he mentions a few things that are really, really powerful. So I want to flesh those out just a little bit in our overtime before we get ready to move on to chapter three, where he's going to now move into family and our family relationships as well. So we'll explore those in our. next podcast. If you want to follow us over, blazedv.com slash unashamed for this overtime

segment. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazTV.com slash unashamed.