Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 635 | Phil’s Valentine’s Day Surprise for Miss Kay & Jase's Toughest Year

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

Phil, Jase, and the guys ponder St. Valentine, showing love to their women, and how much is too much? Jase and Missy have had a tough year as foster parents, and Jesus sets up the ideal for intimacy in marriage relationships. The guys debate suffering and its refining effects on people’s lives. Plus, Jase pokes fun at Zach and his overly educated ways! In this episode: Revelation 3, verses 20-24; Romans 2, verses 4-11; Jeremiah 2; Colossians 2, verse 19 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome to Unashamed. We realized this will air later, but I did wear my red today because it's, it's, oh, whose phone is that? That's me. Sorry. It is Valentine's Day, and that was my Valentine's, so I guess you could interrupt. We, it is Valentine's Day, and so we all have a different, and Zach is back. Zach, welcome back. I'm back. We do appreciate you sitting out the most. difficult past one of the most difficult pastes in the Bible. Yeah. He had some important meetings while we were dealing with First Peter three.

Where are you all at? First Peter three, 18 through four, six. No, no, with the whole chapter, you know, because we got the wives and the husbands. It was a, I missed out on all that. I missed out on all. But you know, George Bush said, what do you call it, strategic? That's my strategy. Well, you did send your much better half that, by the way, Unashamed Nation is. now coming out in droves saying forget Zach, just have Jill on the podcast.

Or Jill. Sorry, Zach. Jill has outshown you yet again. I can't say too much because they also said the same thing about Missy, so I'm told to. Oh, let's be honest. It'd be a much better podcast if it was our four wives. But that's a fact. Yeah, so one of our producers says as soon as the podcast was over, because we did two,

she looks at me and she says, ooh, unashamed wives podcast. You know, I said, yeah, yeah, we've thought of that. So, so it's Valentine's Day here we're recording, and I was just going to record a little bit later. But I, so I wanted to say, I want to kind of see how, what our approach is. Now, for me, it's a big day. I'm wearing a red shirt. I got a hot date tonight with my Valentine's. It's a big deal in my home, and it always has been.

My daughter's here on set. And so I had two girls. And so I always made a big deal, not just for Lisa, but for the girls. And so I would like buy decorations and cook dinner and serve them and have candlelight dinner. And since I had girls in my house, I wanted it to be a big deal. And now she does that with her family, she and her husband, they make it a family thing. So it's always been a big deal at my house. And I realize it's commercialized.

I get all the arguments. Some people don't get into it. I understand. I'm not saying you have to do it. But I do want to kind of get everybody's opinion about Valentine's Day. And I have a picture here. Dad, I wanted to show this to you. because I don't know if you've seen it.

And so apparently you had a big Valentine's gift to Mom. And so here's a picture that I was sent yesterday. Mom, and we're going to show this because I sent it to Madison. This is from Phil? This is from Phil to Mom. I'm sure by way of emissary, you didn't actually go shopping to buy these balloons. Yeah, you went and did this? Everybody calmed down.

I couldn't see my woman for the balloons. The balloons were brought in by one Dan Stevenson who works for us. Okay. Better known as the eunuch. Okay. So I would just simply interject one little text. I checked the Bible from cover to cover, and I didn't come up with Valentine. Valentine Day, Mr. Valentine, no.

Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat. a drink or with regard to a religious festival. I would say possibly. Maybe. They do say St. Valentine's. Say St. Valentine's. So here's the Apostle Paul. Or with regard to a religious festival, which seems to be Valentine's type day,

a New Moon celebration, that's one that I'm not familiar with, or a Sabbath day, that I am, these things are a shadow of the things that were to come. The reality, however, is found in Christ. So I think he's saying if you get wrapped up in a lot of religious festivals and all, you possibly could miss the reality of God becoming flesh, dying on a cross, being buried and raised from the dead. Don't want to miss Jesus. Don't be overcome.

Do not let anyone who delights in false humility, for whatever reason, and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. They go into great detail about what they've seen on spiritual mind. There are some people who have lost connection with the head from whom the whole body supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews grows as God, causes it to grow.

Since you dive with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why is though you still belong to it that you submit to its rules and whatever? Don't handle, don't touch, don't taste, don't that. They're all destined to be gone, and they're based on human commands and teachings. And there is such regulations and indeed have an appearance of wisdom in lieu of watching Valentine's Valentine Day. Self-imposed worship, false humility, harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

That's just a little read from Colossians on how we're to view various religious festivals that might pop up because there's quite a few of them if you go across Christianity through the length of time that we've all been here. So I'm just saying, as far as I'm concerned, the reality is found in Jesus. Don't miss the fact in lieu of Mr. Valentine or anybody else. I think he was a follower of Jesus, and I think that he was lifted up. Maybe a little bit high, so.

I've looked it up. The origin of Valentine's Day. So St. Valentine was a clergyman. either a priest or bishop in the Roman Empire. Yeah. So we're going back. Okay. Roman Empire.

Who ministered to persecuted Christians. Ooh, like that. He was martyred and his body buried in the Via Flaminia. Let's not get off on what Phil's saying here, though. I mean, this is great news for those of us who often forget to get their wife a present on Valentine's Day. ever get mad, you just go to Colossians chapter 2 and say, you can't judge me. Don't let any do one. So this is a way out.

This is a Colossians 2 is the escape hatch. If you forget. I don't think that's going to work, yeah. I'm not going to try it, but I mean, I'm, but if somebody wants to try it, I would like to know if that works. Just quote Colossians 2 on them. That'd be good. Yeah. Just a thought.

I thought it was interesting that this guy was actually a good guy. A good guy. I mean, of course, it says now it's more of just a cultural celebration. Sure. Well, look, it's like any other of the holidays that had a root in something spiritual or good, it becomes commercial. And I get why people don't make a beautiful. If it was possible that you could get, maybe wrongly developed a belief for someone other than Jesus,

you might bring up Mr. Valentine and you say, let's celebrate Mr. Valentine. because he went through, he was persecuted and killed, I guess. Well, and let's face it, most times now it's about love. And obviously from this picture, your wife, my mother, Miss Kay, was enjoying the moment of all these balloons. I do think it's interesting because those of you that... I wouldn't jump up and go to hollering about the... Those of you that watch the podcast, you'll be able to get a look at this picture. If you'll look in the very corner of it, you'll see Dad looking, I'm guessing at the TV, not seeming to revel.

in the moment as much as mom is. So I thought that was interesting. I wouldn't jump up and make an issue out of this. I wouldn't make an issue. So, Jay, so you got big plans for? Well, usually we... Had production, you know. Yeah, usually I get her flowers or...

But, you know, at this, you know, the last few days, we've been preoccupied. Yeah, you had a lot going on. So I think we've just agreed to agree that we love each other and maybe we'll do better next Valentine's Day. This Valentine's Day was more of a fiery trial of a... Big loving towards you a woman is a good thing. It's a good thing. It's always good to be remembered, whatever the occasion.

I think one, when you have a week like we've had, you just, the love is experienced at a higher level. You're just, you did this together. You got three something. I think St. Valentine would not have wanted people to worship him. No. You know. Not if he was a martyr who looked after persecuted saints for sure. But it's not bad to have something named.

I'm also, I find this interesting that a legend states that he defiled the emperor's orders, which I guess is why he was killed. Yep. And secretly married couples to spare the husbands for more. Yeah. I mean, I guess that was the accusation. That's where the love thing came from. Yeah.

So who knew? I didn't know this. Interesting. Zach, what about you and Jill? Do you guys do something special on Valentine's Day? I mean, I've been known to forget, but we, well, kind of like you do podcasts. Just easily forgotten.

Well, I was just trying to move the whole train. Yeah, did the whole thing along. We actually been editing Phil's film, but, you know, I don't want to be like, do this whole shameless plug thing. So I won't do that. but so that that's where I've been. I knew you didn't want to do a shameless plug. Shameless plug when I looked over your left shoulder.

And so the, what is that thing called? Oh, the sticks. The sticks. The sticks that says the blind. Now we don't have to say it anymore. Anyway, I don't know. Not going there. But no, but what was the question?

I don't know anything. Do you guys do some? I mean, I got her, look, I got up early this morning. I drove to the grocery store down the road. I waited for it to open before Jill got up. I got her some flowers, had those ready. What else did I do? We're going on a date tonight.

Yeah. Which is actually, we're actually going to the Cove, which is the, you've been there out, right? The Billigram Association, the Cove here in Swananoa. I love it. And, yeah, she's been going to a Bible study there on the Book of Acts. It's just for women. And so they've planned that on tonight, Valentine's, everybody's going to invite their husbands.

So we're actually doing dinner and the Bible study. So our old friend, Will Graham, uh, runs the cove. And they, it's a great, it's beautiful. It's right there in the mountains, uh, just below Zach there and so on a know. And, uh, they have a beautiful, like, facility. there and cabins up in the mountains. And they do retreats there and Bible study deals. And it's really nice.

And we, at least and I've been there several times. Will and those guys do a great job. That's great. I mean, remember that time they had that event for Sadie. It was a women's event. There were only two guys there. Me and you, that.

The two people that didn't get the memo. Me and Jay's up there holding down the fort. I was feeling really nervous. Instead of Paul Zach, and I thought, well, okay. James walked in like a deer in the headlights. He's like, what have I walked into? He said he turns the corner, and he just, our eyes connected. He was like, he just locked in.

That was funny. That was all the other guy. Well, Missy didn't tell me because she's like, we're family. You're family. So that doesn't apply. I was like, where's that written? Women only, women only. Now, I went to a, that reminds me, Lisa and I spoke at a women's thing that they do in

Maconoff. Island, Michigan. And it's this beautiful island that's in Lake Michigan, literally in Lake Michigan. And we went up and spoke. And it was a ladies event, but they did back to back to back. The place would only hold a thousand women. Was it on a boat or something? The boat went out to it.

It took you like. Oh, it's an island. It's an island. So it takes you like 45 minute boat ride to get out to this place. It's beautiful. This is hotel big. It's called the Grand Hotel up on top of this island. The hotel's been there 150 years.

And so there's a thousand women times three. They're there like 24 hours in three times. And so we spoke two or three times during the course of this three days. And it was a thousand women every time. It was the most energetic, enthusiastic group of people I've ever spoken to. These women were fired up. And it was me. I was the first man that's ever spoken at the conference with Lisa.

And then there was this other lady that spoke her husband. So it was just like you and Zach. It was two men and 3,000 women. On an island. On an island. And so I came out, my opening line, I came up with this on my own dad. I came out and I said, I know nobody here can relate to this except this guy right here. And I pointed out of me, he was sitting there this woman's husband.

I said, have you ever felt like a drop of testosterone in an ocean of estrogen? Of course, the women laughed. And then we were off and running. So that was my... I wouldn't even have known what any of those. were. Yeah, those are big words. I would have gone with there's a thin line between Lake Michigan and Alcatraz. That's a pretty good line. They wouldn't a blast. They wouldn't a blast. That's the difference, James. I knew how to get them. That's the difference. But really? That's true to

making them laugh and offending them right off the bat. Some marriages flourish and some feel more like a prison. That's right. That's exactly right. So anyway, it's after Valentine's Day, but since it is for us here, we thought we'd open. Well, I heard you guys had a couple good episodes. I went back and watched the one on marriage and a lot of good feed. Yeah. So apparently I was going to ask you about that. Hang on.

Let's take a break. What was your opinion of that? I've never listened to one of our podcasts. I just can't do it. Yeah, what was the feedback? Did people like it? Yeah, they liked a lot. There was one comment that someone who is a big,

supporter of our podcast made that I thought was interesting, but she said, you know, it was hard for her to watch it because she didn't grow up in a, well, she didn't, she wasn't a Christian until, you know, after she went through a lot of marital problems and had, you know, had issues and she said, man, just like, I think she felt a little bit like, man, it was hard for her to watch it. But I, you know, I think that the thing about it is is that, like, to me, if you hear everybody's stories in marriage, like, nobody's got together. You know, everybody's coming to the party with a ton of bag. you know, and there's people that have had broken marriages and things like that. But, you know, there's always hope in Jesus. I hope that's what most people got out of it. I think that is what most people got out of the conversation. You know, Jill had mentioned, you know, Missy and Jace's comments and about the marriage night. And she said, I want my boys to watch this. You know what I mean?

It's like this is, you need to understand what real intimacy looks like. And I think that's hard for a lot of people to get. It's hard for me to get it because I did. And, you know, I wasn't necessarily pure going into marriage. And it's hard, it's hard to understand a relationship where performance is not the metrics of success. You know what I mean? But that's real intimacy is not performative. It's much more about being present.

It was kind of interesting, Zad, because Lisa and I were tasked with speaking on physical intimacy at our marriage refresh this past weekend. Yeah. which was a few days after those podcasts that we recorded. And so a lot of what was said on the podcast kind of got us started into our, you know, preparation for the retreat, the refresh. And we started with that because my approach was, our approach was, we talked about the ideal intimacy in the Bible. And you've talked about this a lot from Genesis 2, you know, 24 and 25.

and then you get into the real and the surreal, you know, when sin enters the picture, and then how quickly it goes off the rails, right? By the time you get into Genesis 4, 5, and 6, and you see that kind of fig leaf mentality. And as it goes forward, the whole, all of humanity falls off the deep end, just in a few short generations. And it goes from what started out is just shame, you know, from evil, from the introduction of evil, into just pure violence and wickedness. And so, no matter what you're listening to or whatever kind of days they come up with and these acts of worship,

the bottom line is the Apostle Paul and that Colossus text, the reality is found in Christ. You just can't miss that. Right. The reality is found right there. Right. You know, the ones who removed their sin put us under grace and erased us from the dead. Yeah. So what we did was we painted a picture because you got a lot of people in the case of people we were speaking to that came into their marriage, not from an ideal perspective, but from a very surreal perspective, which at least not did as well, where you had a lot of bad baggage and situations going in.

So then you have to work it backwards. The only way you can, the only way you can be repaired and restored is through what Christ has done. And so when you, so you work your way back to the ideal. And Christ is the only one that can do that. You know, so the idea is, so instead of going ideal to real to surreal, you go the other direction. And then you get back to an ideal by what Christ restores in us. And so that's kind of how we painted our picture for physical intimacy in a relationship. Yeah, because if you think about the most marriages that have major problems, and I look back at my own marriage, like when I, at the, at the,

times and I'm like, man, we got what where I felt like there was major problems. I mean, I know it's relative, but I felt like there was major problems. And it was predicated in my situation and most of the people that we've worked with met with over the years, it was predicated on unnecessary shame. It was, it was the shame that was a result of, of a, I have an expectation of performance in whatever area. A lot of times it's sexual performance. I mean, that's a big deal just because the culture around us and ever, I mean,

It's just always telling you that to be your most authentic self is to be your most sexually free or you can express yourself sexually. So this is like reinforced at every turn in culture. So you begin to associate your identity with your sexuality and your performance in that. But the problem is when you fail to perform or if someone else fails to perform in the way that you expect them to, then there's that brokenness. there's that shame and then there's that covering, then there's that hiding, and then there's the whole thing because it's built on like a transaction. And you're not meeting up to your transaction. But to Phil's point in Colossians 2, when we say that when Paul says the reality is found in Christ,

you got to keep in mind what he's talking about there is he's laying out, first of all, like this legalism, right? You've got to do all these things. You've got to adhere to these religious festivals. You've got to do all the things. And Paul's like, no, don't let anyone judge you on that. He says the reality is found in Christ, so then he exalts Christ. Well, what is Christ?

What do we mean when we say the reality is in Christ? Well, Christ is the incarnation of God, meaning that it is God Emmanuel, God with us, God's present with us, which is the core of intimacy, is this idea of presence, that I'm here and I'm here no matter what. Like God came to humanity while we were enemies, Paul says in Romans 5, while we were. hostile to the cross while we were hostile to God while we were enemies while we were sinners. This is when God was present. This is when God came to be with man and was with us. And if you could embody that in a relationship in your marriage, then what you're going to find is real lasting intimacy because it's not based on performance, you know, which is the whole Paul's point in Ephesians 5. You know, husbands love your wives as Christ loved this church and laid themselves down.

for her. That's intimacy. And I just think that so often so many young people go into marriage, particularly with the physical stuff in mind, and they're expecting this physical, we've preached it in the church, too. It's like a form of the prosperity gospel. You know, like wait until you get married to have sex, then you do. And it's going to be fireworks.

And sometimes it's not. You know, when your kids are throwing up and there's diarrhea everywhere, dirty diapers. That does put a hamper on the sex game. Or when you're throwing up or diarrhea or even worse. Well, we even talked. Or B-O or, you know, we even talked about in the, was James mentioned this minute ago with the, with their scenario of their situation for the past few days, but how when you, as you run through the seasons of life typically and you get healthier

and healthier in all areas of intimacy. And we're talking about emotional intimacy along with spiritual and physical, how when they blend together, and dad mentions this a lot as you get older, it's much less about just sex. It encompasses the whole relationship. It's being together.

And so Jace was mentioning that about spending a weekend of going through a trial with a situation where then it's not just about some romantic evening. It's about what we've gone through together as a couple. It's much bigger than just one evening or one. Well, I'll clarify that because it's been a year. And I made this statement. And because I told someone in Missy's presence that this was the toughest year that I'd ever

spent of dealing with this situation. And Mrs. said, when you said that, she told me this last night. She was like, I thought, what's he talking about? She said, I got thinking about it. And I thought, he's right this is i mean and we're talking about we're you know we have a girl who had special needs and surgeries and just the drama and everything involved and so it kind of culminated this past week and we feel good about it moving forward but what i my point is because even in peter because i i just i've started thinking it's not an accident that i happen to be studying first peter while we're going through this and this has really spoke to my heart and powerful ways. And, you know, he mentioned in chapter one where he said about these trials coming

up, but it's really deeper than trials. Verse seven says of chapter one, these have come so that your faith of greater worth than gold, which perishes, even though refined by fire may be proved genuine and result in praise, glory, and honor when Jesus is revealed. And he brings it up again in chapter four where we're at the niv in my opinion has a terrible translation on verse 12 because he uses the same word for fire in verse 12 don't be surprised at the fiery ordeal you are you are suffering as though something strange so he keeps coming back to that and you think well what's the deal when you think about what fire does because we've been in the fire this has been a trial Yep.

And a lot of the trial part of it was not up to us. It was just outside. You're dealing with different agencies and programs, and you got multiple people involved, and just the drama of an innocent baby, and, you know, emotions run high automatically. And so, but what you realize is that fire that refines, you know, it can do one or two,

things when you put like a rock, if it's just all dross, I think is the word, it just would incinerate. Yeah. But that gold actually is the metal refined where you can see an image. That's right. And it makes it, it makes it even more bad. I think this is the thing. A lot of our obsession with, you know, sensualities and these are these are luxuries, right?

A lot of things we're talking about even in culture today. Or we get to the whole, like, quote unquote, culture war. And we're talking about all the shenanigans that go around with all that. Most of that stuff that we're arguing about are it's like a luxury to be able to argue about that. Because if you're in a position of suffering, then all this stuff gets burned up. You know, the drunkenness, the carousing, the sensuality, the lust, the drinking parties. And you think about the, I mean, when I hear it, when I read that, I'm thinking this is like the roaring 20s, right? I mean, this is when money was just flowing freely.

There's just excess everywhere. It's just a big party. And then what happened? 1929, the Great Depression, the stock market collapses. And this stuff all got eaten up in the fire. You know, so I think that, like, what do you do in your life when, when, because suffering is coming. I mean, like, you can't get around it. At some point, you get sick and you, and you die.

I mean, that's a reality. And so I think what suffering allows us, even in like times like what you, you're going through, Jason, and we've gone through some similar things, is, it's that refiner's fire because it's putting the things that matter in perspective and the things that we have elevated to the position of God that we're worshipping, that aren't God that can never deliver us. And in fact, they just send us into further despair. Like, those things are almost, it's like the fire burns that away because you're looking at it. You're like, that's not going to fulfill anybody.

You know what I mean? I think the reading with the most power in my mind, is in Romans chapter two check this out do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness tolerance this is god toward us he's kind tolerant patience not realizing that god's kindness leads you toward repentance and here's the kicker on all this but because of your stubbornness humanity and your unrepentant heart you're storing a up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath when his righteous judgment will be revealed. He's coming back on all this.

God will give to each person according to what he's done for those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality. He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth, huh, and follow evil, huh, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. That's everybody. But glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile, for God does not show favoritism. I make it a policy to always remember.

that because one it's scary but human beings can get pretty stubborn Zach and they can hold on the things that doesn't amount a hill of beans and God's been very kind to say I love you and I'm going to save you even with your stubbornness and unrepentant hearts I'm trying to get you to see that justice is coming and the end is always that's why that's why he lets us go through trials It was Romans 2. Suffering. That's Romans chapter 2, which it always got my attention. If you back up, if you back up a little bit in Romans, when he describes the wrath of God that's being revealed against all the wickedness and godlessness, when he describes what that is, it's simply God leaving you to yourself.

It's God removing his presence. And so when you move into 1 Peter chapter 4, why do we do that? Sometimes we do these things because we want to avoid suffering in our life. So we're doing the things that would numb us from the reality that there is suffering. But the godly perspective, the biblical perspective, is that we actually lean into the suffering. And into that suffering, we're connected with Christ, you know, if we are connecting with him. So it says, therefore, verse one, since Christ has suffered, because he certainly did suffer in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose.

So we're connecting with the same type of suffering that Christ endured because he who has suffered. So here's the reason why we do it. He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lust of men, but for the will of God. And I love that translation because a lot of times we say, oh, we're not to live in the flesh. Well, it depends on what you mean by that. I am in the flesh. I live in a body right now. what is the aim and the end of my living in the flesh?

Is it to obey the lust of my sinful nature, the lust of men, or is it to live for the will of God? And I think that's the alignment that he is calling us to, is to align ourselves with his will. That's Romans too again. But if the fire is caused and sufferings, though, then it really in practical terms, it lets you see what you're trusting in.

I heard somebody say that when you run upon somebody that says life has no meaning or life is meaningless. I mean, you got a whole book of Clesiastes. What has happened? What has happened is whatever they put their trust in is dead. Yep. And it's a blanket statement, but it's a true statement. When you feel hopeless and life is meaningless, whatever you put your hope in, it couldn't take the heat and it's dead.

And so that's really what the fire refining does. I wanted to read, you know, one of the most famous passages in the Bible, probably in the top 10, right behind John 316, that people read just as an altar call is Revelation 320 when he says. We read that. Let's take a break. In Revelation 320, it says, here I am. I stand at the door and knock.

If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him. and he with me. But when you look at the context of that, this is the letter that Jesus wrote. In verse 15, he said, I know your deeds. You're neither cold or hot. I wish you were one or the other. Because you're lukewarm, I'm about to spit you out of my mouth. In verse 17, you say I'm rich. I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing. But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. Now, what's what he says in 18? I count. You counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire so you can become rich and white clothes to wear so you can cover your shameful neckiness and sound to put in your eyes so you can see. Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline.

So be earnest and repent. Well, then he says that. And then in verse 21, he says to him who overcomes, I'll give the right to sit with me on my throne just as I overcame and sat down with my office. father on the throne. I mean, there's going to be fire and it, and it's good because it sees where your trust lies. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, this doesn't make any sense what we're saying or what, not, we're not saying.

That's what Peter and the Apostle Paul are saying. It makes no sense unless you, you have to have one word that pulls this together. When you talk about suffering, it makes no sense unless you, unless you grasp the word resurrection, because there's always a resurrection. out of this. And that's the hope that we're kind of hanging on to. So you go back, back up to the end of chapter three. Then he talks about baptism. What does he say? He says, of course, the waters of Noah corresponds to that baptism, which now saves you, but it's not the removal of dirt from the flesh. It's not the, you know, it's not the water that saves you, but an appeal

to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So when even what baptism is, Romans 6 and all that, it's like it's it's it's like we're connecting with Christ and baptism, meaning that we're dying to self and we're being raised to live a new life. Even that Romans at the end of Romans six, we become slaves to God. We become slaves to righteousness. And I think that's that's the dichotomy there that it's we I think what we're trying to explain and it's hard to get as as humans that man, suffering just seems miserable. Right. Why would I want to do that? well, if you don't understand the biblical narrative of creation, fall, redemption, restoration,

like there is a resurrection. Like, it's not, you don't just sit in it. You don't just sit in your suffering. God's raising you up to live a new life that's being connected now with the will of God, which happens to be, by the way, the thing that Phil mentioned in Romans 2. That's where you get your peace of mind from. You get your peace of mind from being connected with him. That last little statement that Peter made in First Peter three there,

baptism saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven. He's there 24-7, not counting his sins against you. He's at God's right hand mediating for us to keep us cleansed. We're under grace, not law, with angels. authorities, and powers in submission to him. But if that's the case, you better be submissive to him, too. That's all I got to say.

Yeah, and you think of the question, how? Like, how does baptism, what does I mean that saves you by the resurrection? What it means is that if I come to God as I am and I say, God, and I lift up my hands and I got all my stuff in there, And I'm like, give me what I deserve. Give me what I've earned. If I come in that way, then the answer is going to be, all right, I'm going to just kill you because you deserve death because we bring nothing to the table. And so the reason why we have to be connected with his resurrection is because I can't

come to God as I am. People say, come as you are. You come as you are, but you better not stay as you are or you're not going to, he's not going to let you, you don't bring anything to table. You have to get somehow connected to his righteousness. And so if you read Romans 6, it explains it perfectly that we are united with Christ in his death, and his burial and his resurrection so that we may live a new life. So now that when I come before God, what did I come for?

I came, I came seeking a clean conscience. So I come to God. I said, man, I want my conscience to be clean. The problem is if I bootstrap myself up, I can't, my conscience isn't clean because I know what I've done. But if I'm connected with the resurrection of Christ, now I can come to God, the Father, and say, God, I'm clean, not because of what I've done, but because of the finished work of Christ. And I've been raised with him.

So when you move in in Romans, I mean, 1st Peter 4, that word is therefore, because what we just said, therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose. All of this was made possible by the suffering of Christ. The entire inclusion of the Gentiles, which is mentioned in here, our whole, every, every, Everything, all of it was made possible through the suffering of Christ, but it wasn't just a suffering. It was the suffering that led to a death that resulted in a resurrection of the dead. And that's the thing. Romans chapter 2 all over again, you know, live the rest of his life. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

It's a great change in a human being. I'm just glad it's available. But you're not going to have that clarity when you're on vacation. I mean, that's why the trouble comes. I've been hanging out in Jeremiah too a lot. I did that last podcast about the broken cisterns and all. There's another interesting passage here. This was the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah who was persecuted just at nauseam for years and years and years and years and no one would respond.

And so the word of the Lord came to him in verse 27, and he said, They say to wood, you are my father. They say to a rock or a stone, you gave me birth. They have turned their backs to me and not their faces. Yet when they're in trouble, they say, come and save us. Yep. Where then are the gods you made for yourselves? Let them come if they can save you when you are in trouble.

but you have as many gods as you have towns and it's just it's really goes in with what we're talking about here when you're comfortable and you have accolades and your accomplishments and you start thinking that there's something to it when you start thinking about a fire purifying what's important and you go through trouble all of a sudden all these things start crumbling and you're you become depressed or bitter i mean because there's really only two ways to handle these trials. You're either mad and bitter or you look to the Lord because you realize we can't do this. It reminded me, it reminded me, Jason, that Jeremiah passage at that period of time, I think it may have been the judges where when the Ark of the Covenant would go in

and somebody captured it and they took it in and there was this other false God, and I think His name was Dagan, D-A-G-O-N. But anyway, you can look it up. And they would put the Ark of the Covenant before this false God. It was a little wooden thing they had carved out these people that had captured the ark. And every day they would come in and it would be on the floor, bowing down back to the Ark of the Covenant. It was just happening supernaturally overnight. And finally, they kept putting it back in its place.

And finally they came back one day. It was just broken into pieces. And I thought, you know, you don't want to have to have a God. that you have to nail down to be able to serve, that tells you all you need to know about serving gods that you come up with yourself versus the Almighty. And it was just a great illustration. You think about all other gods and religions,

they just basically say, you know, do good or suffer the consequences. You know, follow the law. Here's your manuscript. And you think about what God did in Jesus. well he submitted himself and suffered for us and showed us the example and the true reason for why we suffer and while we submit. And when you look at what happened in his scheme of redemption and all the benefits that came from that, well, where are you going to find that in any other religion? Everything else is you, if you respond correctly, you might be.

make it. And if you don't, you won't. It's a great tool. What you just mentioned, thinking about these cisterns, these broken cisterns, and you think about what can they actually hold, you know what I mean? And that's a good technique, I think, and a good apologetic. There's a term in logic called reductio ad absurdum. Here's a big word for the day, which basically means that was not a word. Hang on, time out. That was a phrase. That was not a word. It's a term. Okay, good point.

It's a phrase. I'm not going to, I won't use it in a sentence, but I'll explain it. It's a tool that you basically take an argument and then you push it to the extreme to see if it holds or or you take the opposite of what you're saying and then you push it out to see if it holds. And if it doesn't hold, then you're like, they can't be logical. What was the phrase again for us? Reductio ad absurdum or argumentum. I think it's also called argumentum, absurdum. So you're making these, like, ridiculous.

You're pushing things to the end. So, but, but, but, but take what you said, for example, take this broken cistern. Boy, you make the point. I know. How long did it take you to practice that? I would have, if I was ever going to drop that in a conversation. Well, he's taking a couple of weeks off to work on something. Are you driving down the road looking in the rearview mirror saying,

audio matiscerdom. Well, I did get a, my sister, my sister took a screenshot. I'm not going to even send it to you because you'll love it. But it's, uh, it's somebody that put something on the unashamed Facebook page. There, the, that is basically making fun of me and siding with, it's a meme. I'm not going to send it to you, but you would, you would have loved it. And, uh, and I thought, man, I'm glad Jace doesn't look on this page because he would eat this up. Let me read the Jeremiah T-13 that I read the last podcast about that.

He said, my people have committed two sins. They have forsaken me the spring of living water, which, you know, reminds you of what Jesus said and did in John 4 with the woman at the well. And then it says, they have forsaken me the spring of living water and have dug their own cisterns. broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Yeah, so think about all of the things that we elevate to these positions of God in our life. I mean, when First Peter mentions a few of them, sensuality, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties, abominable idolatries, these are things that we hold up that we think can sustain us.

I would add in their politics in 2023, gender ideology, whatever the thing is, right? Even church, even good things. But can these things really bear the weight of your soul? Can these things really bear? If you put everything on them, everything, I just take whatever the one thing of this, I'm going to put all the reality. Everything is going to be on this thing. They all die.

They all crumble. They can't hold the water. That's the problem. They can't hold it. it, which is what Jesus kind of alluded to when he said, hey, look, I'm bringing some new wine, but you got to be careful if you put them in your old wine skins, because what happens if you put them in there? They won't hold it.

You got to have a new wine skin. You got to have a new cistern. You got to have a new pillar. You got to have a new foundation. Jesus, the cornerstone. Man, that's how you can push through these things and think, man, is this really, will this really deliver? So whatever your thing is that you're kind of like tempted with or whatever your default is,

just run that to its end and say, can this really hold the weight of everything? And the answer is always no. It cannot hold the weight of, in fact, it can't hold the weight of hardly anything. I think that's why he says that in 1st Peter 4, 1,1, where he says, you know, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves with the same attitude,

because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. Because when you think about the consequences of suffering, it's actually a positive when you're doing it for the, will of God. Yep. When you think about the consequences of your sin. Very much so. Yeah, when you think about the consequences of your sin,

oh, it's 10,000 times worse as far as the pain that it's caused by your own sin. Oh, yeah. You can never take it back. People are always going to struggle with being bitter at you. Zach was on to something. It's also back to the whole theme Paul had in Romans and dad as well, Romans 2 through 6, but also 7 and 8, Zach, because Paul brings. in this picture of the battle of the flesh, right, in Romans 7.

And then he gets to Romans 8 and says, but look, we've been freed from this because of the spirit. There is now no condemnation. Exactly, because now the will of, how do we understand the will of God by the spirit of God? So that's the difference maker. That's why that Peter makes sure and includes the ascension of Jesus after the resurrection because, Zach, we made this point at the end of the last podcast.

He includes the ascension because that was the point in terms. which the spirit was then poured out for all of humanity to live in us. How are we going to understand the will of God? Romans 12-1, because now the spirit lives in us. So that spiritual... He makes a point. Everything else is submitting to them. You have to also.

That's right. That's what he's saying. So the only way we can live, even though we are still in this life and we commit sin, is if the Spirit of God leads us and as we're sanctified in Him. And it's a case of... of protection. In other words, he has suffered in his body and is done with sin. Arm yourselves.

It's like armor. That sounds like to the Ephesians. Arm yourself with the same attitude. Yeah. Which is why I said, Zach, I spent 15 minutes last podcast talking about that first word, therefore, because if you don't have that, therefore, Jesus had the right hand of God, the resurrection, him dying for. for sins once and for all, well, then you're not going to accomplish this.

You're only, that is a very important word. And I made a big deal about that because that is the basis for, I mean, unfortunately, they, like, made it a new chapter. But it is, that has to be connected to that. You're never going to be willing to look at suffering. And he's not saying, oh, you need to jump up and down every time you're in pain. No, but you refine joy in it because you realize you're participating, you're partnering with Jesus and who he is and what he did. Right.

It still doesn't feel good. Right. That's exactly right. And that becomes part of the process. And every step of the way, as we kind of wind up our podcast here and get ready for overtime, every step of the way, he takes us back to Christ, his suffering and his example. You notice that? Every time. Every segment that he's talked about, the idea.

It's a cosmic attitude. That's it. And every time we talked about this idea, submission and suffering, we go back to Jesus. Yep. Every time, over and over again. Now we're talking about lifestyle. So we're talking a little bit more about this in our overtime segment. If you want to follow us over, it's blazedtv.com slash unashamed.

And we're going to discuss this a little bit more. So follow us over and we'll see you there. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else,

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