Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 639 | Jase Can’t Believe How 'Duck Dynasty' Came to Be & What Scared the Heck Outta Phil

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Phil and Jase think it’s silly that a few duck hunters who love Jesus could be so famous. Phil reveals something that frightened him and made him feel unworthy. The guys urge people to use their talents for sharing Jesus and discuss the role of eldership in the church and the life of Peter.  In this episode: 1 Peter 5, verses 1-14; Matthew 19, verse 17; Mark 10, verse 18; Luke 18, verse 19; Colossians 1, verse 27; 1 Timothy 5, verse 17 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We had a failure to launch there, but we're rolling now. We're off and running, Zach. So we're going now. This is live right here. This is live. We're doing it. I never, I never know when we're, like, I never know when the podcast, when the podcast starts. Are we on or not? Are we just talking? I never know when it actually starts. Well, that's the beauty of this podcast. It really, we could be going. sometimes for a long time.

You kind of have a long history of that. That's why I don't tape things, you know. Yeah. If it's a major event, because they came up with this phrase that's not exactly true, they're like, are you going to watch this live? Well, when you tape something, you don't say, well, I'm watching it dead. That's true. It's a good part.

It didn't take long. have some head scratching moments here. We got deep in a hurry. That's right. My favorite is they'll show a replay of something on TV and it'll still have live on it. And then right beside it, you can't even trust it more.

Record it earlier. Yeah, recorded earlier. Is it live? But it still got live on the screen. So is it one and dead or alive? That's the new thought for, it just shows you how much we're controlled by TV. or people will say that with us you know they'll be like they're always assuming that we're live

but we're actually recording these so of course it happened to dad because he was wanting to talk about an event and we were like dad this by the time this airs your event will be yeah it'll be over but in the moment we were caught up in it because the spirit gives life so even though it's recorded there's a life giving source that's bigger than what it appears well we talk We talk about it all the time with, look at it from God's perspective because he, he's outside of time, but he created us and he functions in our time, but it's already happened from our perspective, and yet we're still living in it. To him, all are a lot.

Exactly. So wrap your head around that. Yeah, it's the dynamic versus the static theory of time, Jase. That's what we're talking about here. So always got to make it more complex. Look, I try to make complex issues simple. You try to make simple issues complex. Yeah, we got into it.

Yeah, we got into it in the overtime segment yesterday, or the last podcast for you guys that aren't subscribers. We got into a discussion on salvation. And I give the explanation, I give like this explanation, but then I came back with the three P's. And do you remember those, Jace? We were wondering if you remember in the next day. Presence.

Yeah. Was it present? That was one. I remembered the last one, but the forget. Only forgetfulness curve. You've already forgot. I could only have retained 15. No, the power.

Oh, he's got two. Power. Presence. Presence. There was one more. It was the first one. Because it was glorification. I'm slowly.

but surely putting the pieces back together. He had all these, because I added imitation. That's our lives, because I was looking for the practical, like glorification, justification. What was the other? You can help, Al. Sanctification was. Sanctivist set apart.

So what was the power, the presence? What was the other one? I can't remember. I can't remember the other P.E. either. What is the other P? The first P. So, yeah, what we were talking about is explaining. Now link them up for us.

So we can't. Yeah, so we were talking about salvation. Yeah, justification is the first one. And we were talking about how we get obsessed with just that one part of salvation, which are just. And so I said the word justification, sanctification, glorification. He's like, why do you got to use all those words? So that I said, how about this?

Justification is you're freed from the penalty. Penalty. Oh, penalty. Well, you know why. penalty because I don't like penalties. And when you're free from it, it's okay. And then the sanctification is your- I easily forgot that.

Because when they throw a flag in football, I'm like, dang it. Yeah, but you did pretty good. I mean, you did remember most of it. The second one was your free from the power. On the curve, you did pretty good. I was above average on the forgetfulness curve of, what was that guy's name from the 1800s? See, we've forgotten the guy's name.

But which was. Ebbing house, Eving house. Something like that. We were talking about in the segment that you, with sermons, there were very easily forgotten, which to preachers is humbling because we like to think they're remembered,

but they're actually not. Well, let Zach finish his analysis so we can forever remember this. Yeah. The three, the three P's of salvation are you're freed from the penalty, which is your justification. You're freed from the power,

progressively as you move on in your sanctification. So sin loses its grip on you. It's not as powerful as it once was in your life as you walk in the spirit with the hope of one day being freed from the presence of sin, which will be our glorification. And Jace brought in a fourth component, which is kind of in the sanctification mode that we've become like Christ in imitation. Which is what we do every day. That's what, you know, it's like, what is your purpose?

Which I didn't add this, but that's also what, how? we started first peter which is the work of the godhead as well because jesus was the justification with the giving of himself the holy spirit is the sanctifying work in us and then the father is the glory you know the presence yeah the presence you are not getting my point yeah because my point was why did i bring that up why did i feel like i needed to bring that up because i was making a point that a lot of people put everything into the conversion basket so you can have your three P's there. You're freed from, you know, Jesus freed you from the penalty,

the power of sin, and you'll be free from the presence, you know, live forever. But my point was, so what now? You see what I mean? I'm like, well, go be like Jesus. Yeah. That's why I wanted to add that, because I think practically that's a problem in our culture.

People are not out living like Jesus because there's possible. Let me give you another P, possible persecution if you imitate Christ in this world. That's the year and now. Yeah. That's what I was. I try to live in the present is what I was. Yeah, because Al was talking about just struggling with, I forgot what the, you said, it was something about these watered down invitations to come to Christ that you felt like were.

I forgot how you said it. Yeah, we were talking about how that faith and belief is more than just a momentary decision. Oh, okay, I believe. But then what? Like, what about the challenges? Because that's kind of what this whole book is about is like your faith gets tested. Because, you know, you can say, okay, I believe there's a God. But what about the first time that faith is challenged or tested?

I mean, do you really believe? And then we were talking about John 8, and that was kind of what happened. happened in that context. So that's what we were talking about in the overtime, which I thought was pretty good. Yeah, one of my favorite authors who I've mentioned all the time on this podcast, Francis Schaefer, he told, he had an analogy that I thought was good. Like he said, you know, imagine that you, every time you were around somebody, this particular person, every time you were around them, they would pull their wallet out. You know, back in the old days, you saw the wallets when you pull out your pictures, you know, now we have phones to have all of our

pictures but but when he wrote this this was back when people carried pictures of their family in their wallet and you would like it was like an extending accordion folder type thing i had that is a wallet have you ever had that did you ever are you old enough to have that um yeah no i think that was maybe maybe in high school that may have been a thing i can't i never but i didn't have wallet till i get in college so oh no but i think uh i would interject there has to be a place for this and I don't think it's mentioned in what y'all just have talked about. Matthew 1917, Jesus is talking, there is only one who is good. That's in Mark 1018, I'm just going Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Matthew, Mark, no one is good except God alone. That's Mark 1018. Jesus said that. Luke 18. Now,

no one is good except God alone. So what you have going here, you have a situation where sinful men and women are cleansed and their sins are not being counted against them as they move forward. And all we're talking about here is one simple thing. It sounds simple, but it's not so simple.

God is. good and he's the only one who's good not any of the ones who were saved no not a good one in the bunch all have sinned falling short so somewhere in there a person who follows Jesus he's motivated by his sins not being counted against him that that's a big one and and and and and and and and and and and and and and by emulating Jesus he said well what what was he known for You say, doing good. Doing good was what he was known for. You just stack it all up.

Only one is good. Where our goal is to be like him, and you won't do it unless you realize your sins are not being countered against you. You're not in a vice anymore. The ways that sin is not, they don't have a hold on you anymore. He delivers you from all that. So it's,

we're not God. and we're not claiming we are even in the race with him, but at least where faith carries us through each day. And you say, basically, you know, somebody come up with a little saying years ago, you know, what would Jesus do? There's more to that that meets the eye. That's why I like the present tense of it.

What is he doing? That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's my point. It's the mystery of godliness. You got all these Aeci, Aisian, Natura, what you all were talking about? You say, wait a bit here, just slow down.

Every time somebody says, what would Jesus do, I say, what's he doing? Yeah. And they're like, excuse me? What's he doing in you now? It's not past. And we must walk. We must walk as he did. That's how you.

Well, that's how I brought that up. That's how you. What's amazing to me is we spent 11 minutes trying to remember what we talked about last time. But I want to get this verse out. I just got one little caveat in there that, you know. No, I think you're right, but my response to you. is that the mystery of godliness, Colossians 1, is Christ. Is Christ in you.

That is correct. The hope of glory. That's where I'm going. When the Holy Spirit moves in, that's why when he gets to this, being humble and casting your anxieties, all your anxieties on him under his mighty hand, I mean, when you start looking at these things, that's what keeps you humble. You realize the good things you're doing is not. you because the evil ones over here saying, oh, you're awesome.

You know, he's either giving you that temptation or he's doing the total opposite with the other extremes saying, oh, you're terrible. But each way works for his devices. So you're either underestimating, you know, God's love or overestimating it to where it's like, well, it doesn't matter what I did. You know, God will forgive me. So, yeah, go back, Zach. Before we do that, let's take a break.

All right, go back. I want to, you entreat me on the accordion picture thing. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you this first, because I'll tell you the accordion picture, but I do think that when Phil brought up those comments that Jesus made where he said, no one was good, he was talking to that rich, rich, young ruler, which I may have misspoke yesterday. I think I said that he said, take up your cross and follow me.

But what he actually said was go sell everything you have and follow me. But there's, so there is that idea of coming to Jesus is you fought. There's a whole part about following him, which is ongoing, which ties into the analogy that Schaefer gave about the accordion folder of the pictures. He said, if every time you're around this person, they bring out their wallet and they open up the picture, the pictures. And they say, man, look at these are all the pictures of the day I was born. And they're just, man, it was an awesome day. My mom told me this is what happened.

And every time you're around this person, all they ever talked about was their birth, you would begin to think something's off here. You know, you're a full grown adult now. What about your life now? And he said that that's akin to like what we do in the church. We get when we only focus on our justification, which is our new birth, it's important. It's essential. Without it, we wouldn't be here.

We wouldn't be in our faith. But he said, man, there's life that goes on after your justification, which is that sanctification process, which is what's happening now to answer Jason's question, you know, what now. And that's the place where people live. And I think it's important for us to learn how to speak in that language. That's the part about, hey, sell all your stuff, you know, give your idols up and now follow me. And so when we talk about, you know, walking with Jesus, a whole lot of this is about

imitation. I'd love to Jason use that word. I mean, once you're safe from the penalty of sin, what then? Well, the answer to that question is now you start to become like Christ. you start to imitate Christ, you start to smell like the aroma of Christ, and that is a process that will last the rest of your life into eternity, is becoming conformed into the image of the sun. It's what you are predestined for, according to Paul in Romans chapter 8. Well, that's why I think the verse, we're underestimating verse 10 and 11 of chapter 4.

I mean, we kind of quickly skipped over them, but each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone who serves, he should do it with the strength God provides so that in all things God may be praised. Well, to me, that's living like Jesus on the earth. That's why we're here. Just think about it. Why don't he just end it? Why are we all going through the motions of being on the earth? We just happened to have, as it turns out, with all these texts in mind. So you got a bunch of people who are down here living on the edge of a river,

and what they are known for, what they do is they fish, basically they fish and they hunt. That's what they do. That's what their lifestyle is. They make a living at it. But they is we, right? The way they is we. So you look at it.

He's talking about it. The third person was throwing me off. It was so convincing that I was wondering who we thought about here. Everybody's in a slot. And you said, well, what's y'all's slot? Our slot is we build devices that coax birds to come to us, to get birds with it. We think you say, well, I wonder what they're going to do with Jesus. Well, look at it.

How many people, we build duck calls for crying out loud. That's it. Yeah. We build duck calls. We found ourselves to do it. Well, you look up one day. And so what, you say, so what's the fruit of that? Thousands have been converted.

And we're over here down there on the Riverbank. You say, wait a minute here. But to make your point, to make your point, when I was a teenager, when I told people that that's what I did, they busted out laughing. Yeah. And so I changed that. It's a joke. That's my point.

No, they laugh. And so I changed that to be in an air traffic controller. aspiring to be an air traffic controller. And then they're like, oh. But my point is, though, it matters how you're viewed. And people look at the simplistic beginning of our faith. And that's why you get on TV because they're like, well, how does this happen? Yep.

This is so silly and stupid. These people seem so dumb. But what they didn't realize, is that's what I have, you know, said many times in my speeches. And we were true. Christ in you is a very interesting dynamic. It is. That came in.

So it wasn't that, you know, we couldn't go do something else. We just chose this lifestyle and chose to trust in God. And so when you don't really put all your energies toward the materialistic universe, people, they make fun of that. And look, we never separated being like Jesus. from that. We were getting, we're talking to people who actually,

they're hunters, fishermen. So we're talking with them. That's a big point. And it's covering these people. You said, well, do they hear about Jesus and all of this? Or do they hear about,

all they hear about is how you go out and harvest ducks? I said, oh, no, it worked together. We took Jesus with us. Took Jesus with you. So I'm just saying

there's one family group that does one particular thing rather well, which would be build game calls. But just think at the myriad of what you call it, what people do for a living. There's a lot of people doing a lot of different things all the way to computer buffs, to market scientists.

We're not the only people that do it. No. I mean, there are, not at all. There are a lot of other people that do it. Well, I think it just comes from what I was the point I was making. Because when you brought up those pictures, and I'm going to make a point here. When I went to the Ukraine, so I always forget exactly what year I went.

I was 21 or 22. And, you know, but I had a picture of Missy because back then we did. We had pictures. So that was over 30 years ago. Early 90s. When I think she was a senior in high school. And, of course, it was rough. I was a little intimidating because the wall had just came down and there were threats around for sharing Jesus and different things.

I'm a young guy. Oh, yeah. It was, and then we all got sick at some point, and we just kept going. You know, I'm going down to this college and sharing Jesus, but you're just a million miles away from everything you know, and we were, then we ran out of food, you know, and so I was doing a lot of praying and a lot of staring at that picture because I was recently married, you know, and here I am just in a pretty tough spot, you know, and it was a lot of suffering that really I was thankful for.

But the reason I bring that up is I think it was very helpful in my faith, because when I came back, you know, I appreciated everything more. Grocery stores, America, my wife, I mean, just the whole, you know, everything I was taken for granted, which led to a lot of discussions about my wife would be so frustrated because every time I had an opportunity to make more money, I never cared about that. And, you know, she'd cry. We'd have arguments.

But I was like, baby, if the Lord wants us to have some money, that'll happen. But I'm not making a decision, you know, where I've got to work more or be gone more. I was always like, no, we ain't worried about that. Look at us. We're living off love, baby. But she was always. But she was working full time also. But in your mind, it was like, I mean, it ain't Ukraine.

Yeah, that's exactly. Right. I was like, I've seen how people live over there. So it really, it really made my personality that way. And I kept trying to explain that to her. But she couldn't get it because she wasn't there. Right. And you can't, you know, when you were thinking about that way, we use pictures and all, it's still, you can get an idea and think you know and you can know about Jesus and you. But the true experience, looking at it day by day, that's really the game. changer. And so, you know, look, finally one day when the show hit and all that, I remember Missy laughing because I said, hey, I tried to tell you, if he wanted it to happen, you can't stop it. Whether you're building duck calls or you're talking to others about little TV show, TV gigs, you've got a little of that, no matter what it is.

is we're going to end up when we talk to people with Jesus, Him Crucified and raised from the dead. That's my take on it. I think that's the key thing. When you leave, they say, what do you do for a living? No, they already know that. But people come from all, but I'm in Mississippi tonight. You said, what are you going to do? For the first time ever, well, I better just not tell them that. Yeah. I'm going to do something that I've never done here tonight. Oh, well, wait till you do it. We'll deal with the cast, we'll talk about it. We'll deal with the aftermath.

We'll bring it back up. But I did want to say, Zach, when we were talking about this pitchers and all, so I have a little box of like little mementos where times of my life where, you know, I made some spiritual decisions, but I had that pitcher. I mean, Missy Podge doesn't even know it. But it's like, it's a, of all the pitchers, because she's a big pitcher taker. You know, I had that one because of that moment. And I want to remember that.

I want to remember that I realized, you know, back to the rich young ruler reference, because I experienced what it's like to have nothing. But, you know, it's forced on me. I mean, I chose to go there to help people. I had no idea what I was getting into. And I'm thankful for it now. And I've been thinking that when we're going through, Peter. That's my suffering moment that I'm appreciative for.

I think there's something in what Jeremiah said, I think it was. Didn't he say at one point? you know, I don't know what to do with myself. I mean, I'm caught in a trap. I mean, I really don't think I forgot the, what I had to describe that, but he said, I just have to do it. I mean, well, I think it's because he was getting persecuted and no one was responding. I mean, it's, it's a tough read, but that's basically he gets to the end and says, you know,

what do you feel, yeah, how do you feel if you're the, you feel like you're the only guy that gets it? Yeah. He says, if I say I won't mention him or speak. anymore in his name he's like i still have to do it but i just can't help it his words in a in me you could pick pick out the the cities and the major metropolitan areas across the country and especially around big colleges old colleges and the and the things that's coming out of those classrooms and if they calls you in said we'd like to know get your view of the world and what are we doing here on earth and is there a way out of here what you know what's what's this big

deal about jesus i mean i would think a lot of trouble would come your way oh no i wouldn't think it i'll guarantee it there's there's plenty of places to go to get persecuted i mean not much has changed since jeremiah was on the earth uh what about it no there's there's plenty there's plenty of places let's take another break i think to phil's point though you know the world the church would be a lot better off if I think a lot of people come in. I've heard this so many times from young people. I want to go into ministry. And that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing for God to call you to for sure. But I think the problem that I ran into with young people is a lot of times they assume that's the only place where you can do ministry. And I love like our family's life

because this is something that people have said to me before. All you guys like teach and preach and baptized people, but you're not like paid clergy. And I think that what the world needs is the kingdom, what Phil's talking about is erasing this secular, sacred divide. We're saying, no, no, Jesus is Lord of all of it, whether we're, you know, running hootnets or whether we're, you know, we're doing a podcast on a TV show, a doctor, lawyer, teacher, whatever your thing is, like that's your ministry. That's the place where you're going to meet people and come in contact with people.

And so we're displaying. You are correct. We are displaying Jesus in all of those things. In fact, that's the problem, though. We want everybody wants to be a preacher. That's what Peter is alluding to throughout. Telling the churches around the regions to serve and to speak. Well, that is ministry.

Yeah. I think we're all ministers. We're all priests. Yeah. It's a priesthood of believers, right? I mean, did Paul not say he's committed to us the Ministry of Reconceptive? Was he just talking about the leadership? No.

And they were having the same issues 2,000 years ago. I mean, the same thing. There were some people that were paid. In fact, Peter's going to get into it. And when we get to chapter five, Peter was, it seems like from the way, what he says, that he was a person who was paid as an elder, but we know there were some that weren't.

Paul made it a point to not be paid because he didn't want to deal with that. And it's interesting because as we're talking here, I'm the person sitting here that was a paid person and then wasn't. And I have to say, I have a lot of conversations with some of our listeners because they're kind of what you describe, Zach, as some have wondered, should I go in, should I not? And they've asked me personally about it. And I said, well, I've done both. And I have to say, I mean, I've enjoyed it more not being paid. I mean, I felt more pressure being paid and I felt less pressure not being paid. I mean, just being honest.

I mean, I've enjoyed it more. Did it free up the sermon topics? Oh, yeah. And mainly just because I didn't, not as much about fear of what I was going to say, but more the idea that I didn't feel like I had to say things or I had to deal with people, I just felt free. Whether you were paid or not, Jesus was still in the forefront. Yeah, I mean, I was committed no matter what.

You're doing it because you love God and love people. I mean, when I'm asked to speak, you know, at our home church, I'm like, great. Yeah, it's, you feel, I'm not getting paid. Right. So I'm like, don't gripe. You ask me. You get what you pay for. But I'm literally going to, you know, sincerely think, what do we need here?

Right. What do we need? I mean, there's no other agenda except for sincerity of heart. Yeah, it's a much freer. It's a love for God. appreciation of the gospel and love for people. But I do think it definitely takes you more out of the sort of, you know, political environment that is in any place.

And unfortunately, it's in churches as well. And you get into that when you're in, when you're kind of in the weeds of being a pastor at a place. And that's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. I mean, just that to be honest about it. So how does that tie in with your First Peter 5-1?

Well, I think as we get into it, I think that will be part of it, because he talks about money in the setting. And that's what he's talking about as a leader. I mean, so, you know. Yeah. It's a good transition that if you think about everything we've talked that he's mentioned up to this point is about participating in the suffering of Christ. So he's already established kind of like this mindset that we are to hold as believers.

And then when he makes the transition to leaders and elders in chapter 5, I think of this is almost like, okay, now we're going to talk about power. Now we're going to talk about leadership, and I'm about to give you a blueprint for leadership that's probably going to blow your mind that's going to be the complete opposite of what you think leadership looks like and what you're actually called to. I love this passage. We've actually, you know, when we think about how we structure our church in terms of the leadership model, this is one of the passages that we went out of is this elder-led model. And not to bash other models. I mean, look, everybody's got their take, and I'm not, but I do think there's something here in the spirit of what Peter's doing when he's talking about elders and what they, the kind of spirit they should embody. There is something very powerful in here, even in the very first sentence, you think about Peter, who was an apostle.

So Peter had apostolic authority. You know, he had a different kind of authority that was, you know, he wrote this down. He was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But listen to how he starts chapter five in the position that he puts himself in as he makes this charge. He says, to the elders among you, I appeal to you as a fellow elder. I think just that line right there. He doesn't say, I'm appealing to you as an apostle of Christ. He's coming down off of that apostolic authority.

I'm coming to you as one of you guys. So you already see kind of like. As far as we know, I mean, from, from. all we read in scripture, he is the only one of the apostles that became an elder. Because, you know, this is, this is 20 plus years removed, you know, from Acts. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that, to me, that says a lot about him, personally. Yeah, just as, this is character and like as, and, and what he's calling them to, because when he says that, he says, I'm coming to you as a, as a fellow elder, he says, and then he also further clarifies a witness of Christ's suffering. and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed.

So he said, I mean, all this we've been talking about is this idea of being willing to suffer. So many people I've met, and maybe even in my own life earlier on in my faith, when I thought about being in leadership and I thought about being an elder, I think what the image that popped in my mind was influence or, you know, power or whatever. the thing is that our sinful nature's lust for. And in God's economy, it's the complete opposite. The position of eldership is actually a position of being a servant, a position of humility. It's not a position of like, I'm lording this over you at all.

And I think that's why we've seen so much abuse in the church, particularly from pastors and elders. I mean, this is very common for pastors and elders to abuse people and church hurt and all of that stuff. and I think if we could just get into what Peter's charging us with here, it might run off a lot of people from wanting to hold the office of elder because it's calling us to something this last year. Well, when I was first asked, I mean, now I look back on it, when I was first asked by the elders that were there, we need to come on board here as an elder.

Look, that scared me like a, I was like a jack rabbit. I said, hey, no, I don't. I'll get back with you on that. So that was out of the question when it come up. But for about six months, we talked back and forth, and they finally convinced me it was just a task that is needed in the church. You're doing the work. You're already doing it.

What they said was they recognized you were already shepherding people. Yep. And so they wanted to recognize you as being that shepherd. Yeah. I just thought about the title, and I said, ooh, ooh, we're easy now. I just didn't see myself worthy of that position. It's kind of like, it's a lot like this one. I appeal to you as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's surface,

and one who is also sharing the glory, you know, an elder shares in the glory to be revealed, be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers. So the more I looked at all these texts, I said, you know, maybe they're right. Maybe I am doing the work of an LLLLOP. I want to make a point, though. He used the, of all the things.

But I was scared to become an LLLLLLLLLIT. And he said not because you must, but because you're willing. So that's the deal. You're not doing it because you desire to be over people. It's because the idea is. You are correct. Because you're already doing. Hang on, Jess.

Let's take a break. But the credentials he gave were. so profound to me. I mean, it's more than just as a fellow elder. Of all the credentials he could have chosen, he basically chose what happened on the cross and the implications of the resurrection as his basis for giving them a charge.

Yeah, I had to. Just think about that. I was doing that. I was preaching the gospel and all. That's what I'm saying, though. But in his letter, he's like a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who was sharing his glory to be revealed. What is that?

He's like, I'm part of the death and resurrection of Jesus. So. He was there. He just, he got it. That is the focus and the power. It's the model. It's the model of service, of leadership. If that's not at the hub in moving forward, the wheel's not going to stay on the car.

I don't mind the ones that do get paid. but I personally, I would never, I never have. I said, no, you don't want to, I don't want to take any money here. Right. So I didn't want that to be an issue with somebody. Well, and I also think that he, he's also saying in this, I saw it happen and it's about to happen to me. I think there's an implication in this verse that he's, I witnessed it and I will, I will experience. because he's right there.

I mean, within the next few years, he's going to experience the exact same thing he saw in Jesus. He's on the front line. He's on the front line. I just think there's got to be a focus. So in other words, what he's saying is, I witnessed it and I will do it. I'll go to my death.

I mean, I just think it's bizarre of all the things he could have launched from. Because that better be your focus. Because you really, you think that's where all our problems, I mean, that was God's plan for us all. That's where your focus needs to be. We have a, there's an extreme temptation to get off on a million different things on why we should listen to you or why this program is better.

You better have the elders and the gospel become. You better have that synonymous. I guarantee you. I mean, that was his, that was his basis for what he's fixed to say. I just think it's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, and you think about the term right at the point. You think about the term elder, you know, there's other words you could use, pastor,

Shepherd. These are all kind of the same words. Bishop, teacher, overseer. Yeah. Yeah, it's like that, it's that, it's that office, if you want to call it that, where it's, you're, you're responsible for the care of people. And that's why it clarifies here. When he says this, he says, not because you must, but because you're willing as God

wants you to be, not greedy for money, but eager to serve. So this is a service role. not lording it over those entrusted to you. So, man, that's a big verse because I've been in a lot of churches, and I think it's just the nature of kind of our culture and how church structures are set up where the pastor is like up here. And he's the pastor. He's up here.

And he gets some kind of special revelation from God. And then he disseminates it to the people. I don't think that's biblical. And I think it's very, very dangerous. And we've seen this when we put pastors up on peasant. pedestals to positions that they can't sustain that. They're human beings that are sinful.

You know, your pastor is sinful, just like you are. And so, like, God may have put them in a position to oversee you, but a lot of times what happens is the church, we want to outsource the responsibility of our priestly duties to a pastor. And then the pastor wants that respect and adoration. And there's like this unspoken deal that's made with the pastors in the church. And it's like, man, we got to get rid of that model. That is not working, and it's very destructive.

It sets churches up for abuse, for pastoral abuse. I think what, and this goes back to what Phil is talking about, man, you cannot give a pastor your priestly responsibilities. If you are, he said, well, but I'm a commercial fisherman, or I make that cause, I'm not a preacher. Like, what if Phil, like, what if you guys had did that? What if he said, no, we're just going to give that to Barry Stevens and Mike Kellett. We're going to let those guys, they're the clergy. Oh, Titus says it, man. he said, an elder must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught so that he can

encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. It is the centerpiece of an elder's life, the gospel of Jesus. Yeah. It better be there. And as an elder, you have to push that to the people, like back to the church. I mean, we can't take on responsibility that's not ours. And I think of the model that was a perfect example for what elders do. You're a perfect example. Well, and it's. The gospel is still in the forefront with your life, your teaching.

You certainly see this idea from the first century model that you had these, the churches, you had elders there who basically taught and preached. And you had some guys, you know, certainly some evangelists that roamed around. And when you read Titus in first and second, Timothy, you kind of see what they were doing. It was a little different, I guess, that, because you had this apostolic presence because they were also establishing, you know, the word was just coming in for the church. So it was a little different, I guess, than, you know, 2,000 years later. But I agree with you. I mean, the current model has changed quite a bit.

And that's part of the reason why I think things are so confusing now for people. And that's why we've been probably much less effective than it was. back 2,000 years ago. Let's take our last break. Yeah, we always say one of the phrases that I don't know who came up with it, but we use it at our church a lot when we're explaining what an elder does, is that the only authority that an elder holds is the word rightly lived and then the word rightly taught. So like, I'm an elder at our church, but I don't have any like special authority or like knowledge or anything. If someone's put themselves under the care of our,

of our church and eldership, all that means that we just go in and say, hey, man, you know, but it's an agreement that they said, we want this accountability. And we would come in and say, hey, here's what the scripture says.

Like, you know, what's going on in your life? This doesn't really line up with that. Not what I said or what anybody else said, that it's all, the only authority is, is the word and the word of God,

to your point, which wasn't fully, you know, comprised yet. But, but I think what, We've built in Western culture is a model where you have like a senior pastor kind of guy. It looks a whole lot more like a CEO.

And then there's like board of directors under him. It's ran more like a corporation. And I'm not like dogging that. I know that's been effective in some regard. But I don't really see a scriptural case for like lead pastor. I mean, when I'm reading here, and I hear about this lead pastor, he does mention a lead pastor in verse four. but he calls him the chief shepherd, which could be translated to lead pastor.

When he appears, you will receive a crown of glory that will never fade away. And I love that because it's like, you got all of us elders, even Peter, who came down off the apostolic authority, I exhort you as a fellow elder, and he's pushing them to,

hey, suffer, serve, like this is what we're doing in the vein of the gospel, in the vein of the death of Jesus, We're anticipating a resurrection when the chief shepherd shows up, when the lead pastor comes. When he arrives, we're going to receive a crown that will never fade. And I love that picture of putting Christ in the seat of the lead pastor.

And then we just are sitting under his authority, all of us collectively. I think that's beautiful. And I think it enables the body to go do their priestly duties. And we're not outsourcing that to professional clergy. You want to see a revival in America? then what you're going to see happen is ordinary normal people that are living their daily lives filled with the Holy Spirit, sharing the gospel of people, being priest out in their respective places of work and who they do life with.

And that's what the kingdoms are supposed to look like. No, I agree. And, of course, one of the things that Paul told Timothy, which I think applied to Peter, since Peter brought it up about being an elder, not greedy for money, but eager to serve, meaning that you would be paid. He's saying you're not doing it for the money. You're doing it because of service. Here's what Paul told Timothy in 1st Timothy 517.

He said, the elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. In other words, he's saying they should be paid. For the scripture says, do not muzzle the ox while it's trading out the grain and the worker deserves his wages. So he's saying if they're working for the church, it's okay to pay them.

Do not entertain. Then he goes on to say, do not entertain an accusation against the elder unless it's brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly so that the others may take warning. So he's saying, you know, this leadership's important. And it's important to have that and established because these guys are going to be your on-the-ground leadership in these settings. And I did find it interesting that even as early as in Antioch and Axis,

1130 and Jerusalem and Acts 15. I mean, the church is just cranking up. But you already see elders present. And the apostles are there, but the elders are there too. You know, working with these guys. So, I mean, it was very important from God's perspective to have these present leadership there. Even in heaven, you know, the heavenly hosts.

There's elders. Elders. Yeah. And to your point out, I think it's important to note that we need paid elders and paid clergy. We need that in the church, and that is a function of the church. I think what we're saying is it's just not the only function of the church. And what we've done is we put everything in the hands of the paid elders and leaders. That is we got to have those guys.

But we also can't – I think what we're saying is we have to be the kingdom. That's right. And so you can't think, well, I'm going to put my tie in, give my money, and then I'm just going to show up. And I'm going to consume worship and go home and live my other life. And we're like, no, no, no. Like, it's whatever your life is. I love how Phil brought this up earlier. You know, we're just, you know, we're just, or the group of people he talked about who is the family who lived on the banks of the river and they fish and they make duck calls.

And it's not that those things are trivial. They're not trivial at all. That was the way through which you met a lot of people and shared Jesus with a lot of people. I mean, that was the entry point. Yep. I think that's what we're saying. Well, you're saying, Ephesians 4, you know, 11, when he talked about it, was he who gave son to be apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers

to prepare God's people for works of service. They're just whipping us up into a frenzy to get out there and imitate Christ. And, I mean, that's the way I've always viewed it. I think where people struggle is they're like, well, I don't feel like, you know, have any talents or skills or or get god has a you know everyone a certain set of skills and if you have the same message and the same savior they'll be you'll find that way that's that's part of the awesomeness of uh you know representing and being an ambassador of christ is figuring that out but if you're willing to serve and you're willing to speak on jesus his behalf that's that that that is it whether

You're writing it. I walked up to a mic. I walked up to a mic and I was there to help duck hunters know what a duck sounds like and how to call ducks. I took that. I gave them the lesson on that about how to call ducks. But I set my duck calls back in my bag and brought my Bible out. I said, while I'm here, I said, listen to this. Of course, a lot of people said, that's the craziest thing they ever heard.

I had about a thousand people then gathered up there. And I was looking at it like I don't want them to get out of it. to hear until they hear the gospel because I love them enough. I don't want to see them duck onto them and then die because they didn't have no faith. So I'm trying to preach the gospel to give them faith, and I just combine the two and a few naysayers come along, but the bottom line was, it was a good call to do to use that as an advantage to preach the gospel, you know? Phil, when I can't tell you how many times in my life, particularly when I first moved

back to Louisiana. I got a job in the pharmaceutical industry. And whoever I was working with, bosses, coworkers, whatever, they would say, they would know who you were from the duck hunting. Man, we want to meet your uncle. We want to meet your uncle. And so I would bring him down there. And you've met a lot of my friends over the years.

But you know what? I always would tell them beforehand. I said, look, I got to warn you. You're going to get in the Bible study. So it's just, I mean, are you okay with that? We just want to meet Phil. And so it was, like, I personally, witnessed people who they came to meet you because they liked duck hunting and they were a fan

of duck hunting. They used your calls or whatever. They just wanted to meet you. And that was their agenda. Your agenda was not even to sell them a duck call when they came to your agenda the entire time was they're not leaving here without hearing about Jesus. And I just saw that happen my whole life. And a lot of those people came to know Jesus through that.

And I thought, man, what if you would not? have had the duck call business what did you what if you just next I'm not I'm not doing that all the people that came in that way you know that one of my favorite stories I know we're almost out of time here one of my favorite stories about you that you tell is when you got inducted into the Louisiana sportsman's Hall of Fame and you're standing there underneath the the sign king of king of beers Budweiser king of ears and you talk about how you look down in your bag and saw the Bible and you you had that that calling I got to tell them about Jesus And you reach down and you grabbed your Bible and you said,

I stand before you tonight beneath the sign of King of Beers. And of course, they all cheered, and holding up their beers. And you said, but I'm here to tell you about the King of Kings. And that was like the moment in your ministry that blew up into you speaking all over the country in the name of Jesus. But you stood before then that night there because it was all about duck hunting, but you saw it as an opportunity to tell them about the,

living God. Man, if we had that, I think that's a picture of what the kingdom, if it looked like that. Plus, that needs to go down and has lived out through your children. There's one out right there and Jace. And then you got Willie, you got Jeff. Well, they're all doing the same thing, basically, across the country. And Phyllis. And Phyllis. Yeah, that's right. And I was there the night he did that in Superdome. And, you know, and I'm never forgotten. I was a teenager. It impacts you. That's a good story. That's how you go on in Legacy.

That's right. All right, we're out of time. In overtime, we'll talk a little bit more about that. And also, this idea about shepherd and sheep as a metaphor is really interesting. I want to get into a couple of things there. And we'll hopefully finish the book, talk about the devil in the next podcast, because he's going to get into that as well and the rest of First Peter 5. So we'll see you in overtime.

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