Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 654 | Jase Doesn’t Want a ‘Mansion on a Hill’ & Why Doomsday Prophecies Will Never Be Right

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Jase and the guys have a lot to say about heaven, hell, and doomsday prophecy. Do they really exist? What will they be like? Does that even matter? The guys explore what 2 Peter has to say about judgment and the end of days. Jase’s genius comparison between humans and God and children and adults.  In this episode: 2 Peter 2; 1 Corinthians 3, verses 5-15; Ephesians 3, verse 19; 2 Thessalonians 1, verse 8; Malachi 4, verses 5-6; Isaiah 65, verses 17-25 "The Blind" hits theaters this fall. Get updates, trailers, behind-the-scenes moments, and special opportunities here: https://theblindmovie.com — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, so we've got Zach back with us. It's like a mist that comes in from the Carolina Mountains. Well, this is going to be a continuation of the last podcast. So if you didn't listen to the last one, stop what you're doing. Go watch that one, because you're probably not going to get this one if you weren't at the previous one. He flows in.

I don't know the numbers of these podcasts, but. They're up in the 600s now. We're in the 600. Many hours. Which is dangerous. You spend this much time, you know, talking a discussion online. There's no telling what we've said over the years that. We're going to misspeak from time to time.

It's going to happen. That's exactly right. That's why I read. We pray forgiveness for our shortcomings. I reiterate that once every couple weeks, I wear a T-shirt that says, I could be wrong. That's true. So the last podcast we talked about some from my sermon, I preached it. But, Zach, you preached as well.

We never got to your sermon. You're in Ephesians, right? Yeah, Ephesians three, we were talking about in the last part, which is something, by the way, that comes up. We have this discussion a lot, just about, you know, over-intellectualizing the gospel and getting too heady. And we have an inside joke that's now become an outside joke, I guess, with some of the words we use. and we tongue-in-cheek joke about it, but we weren't. We did have a good discussion about just keeping it simple.

And the point I made at the end of the last podcast in overtime, if you guys aren't subscribed to the Blaze, was just that for me, I needed that deep study, you know, because I had a lot of doubts about the Christian faith. You know, I was really,

really struggling. And so just having a pastor tell me just, and just have faith, It just wasn't, I didn't understand what that meant. It wasn't enough for me. So I didn't, my point was it's not the word, you know, we don't need to intellectualize the gospel, but we also don't need to be anti-intellectual. But in Paul's prayer in Ephesians, which I preached on Sunday, he has this interesting

line in verse 19 when he's praying for these folks. He prays that they would know this love, which by the way, that love is the love of Christ that's mentioned in verse 18. They would know the love of Christ. that surpasses knowledge that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. And I was just making the point in that last podcast that what Christ is, what Paul is praying for is not that we don't have knowledge. It's a certain type of knowledge that surpasses knowledge. And the point I made was that it's a relational knowledge.

It's a knowledge of God that is intimate and real and tangible. And that should go deep in your life. So I don't know. It meant a lot to me when I read that and encouraged me. It's one of my favorite texts in the whole Bible. It's definitely one of my favorite prayers. And I've preached that before Tuesday. In 18, I love that in the NIV.

It says to grasp how wide, long, high, and deep is the love of Christ. And I've always used that. I love it. Like when I used to teach that text, I would draw the air. arrows, you know, that directionally show the love of Christ. And I always say that that means that there's no place we can be too high, too wide, or too low to be away from Christ. His love can't find us there.

And, you know, it's that idea that sometimes we just feel so low or so far away that the love of Christ can't find us. But it's like, no, it's, it reaches in the lowest place or the furthest place or the highest place, you know, and, and finds us, which is a power. picture to me. So I love that text. It's really, really strong. No, I think that was a great way to describe what we've been discussing. And, you know, we're in 2nd Peter 3, which to a lot of people, this is scary and frightening, and there's hundreds of different takes on this. But one of the, you know, one of the things that people don't like about following Christ is the idea of judgment and,

hell being real and you know the i mean he uses some pretty graphic language here you know like verse seven the same word about the same word comparing this to what happened in the flood noa the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men and so you know a lot of people they just they they want to believe in jesus and they and God's love, but they don't want to believe in a hell or a judgment day. It's just the nature of humanity. It's like we compartmentalize. And so I heard a preacher say one time in a sermon.

He said, I want to tell you that I don't believe hell is necessarily about fire and darkness. I think that he was saying that that's a. just a metaphor. And so you could actually hear, and he made a point, he's like, you know, people were glad he said that. They're like, ooh, you know, he's talking about eternal fire and darkness. He said, but I will say that it's a metaphor for something way worse than fire or darkness. And then there was a collective gasp of, oh, wait, I don't like this.

Well, could be worse. But he made the point of saying that. number one, God doesn't want anyone to perish. He does have this unlimited patience, which is why we're where we're at today. God is displaying his unlimited patience. He doesn't want anyone to perish. And then he also said, but hell is without God. And we have these fires and this darkness that come upon us on the earth that we give

into and nobody's going to wind up in hell that didn't choose to be there. And so it was a, it was a, so he was saying it's just a continuation of the decision you made while on earth with God's grace extended to you in Jesus that you chose to ignore. So yeah, you can use fire, you can use, so that's why you have all these illustrations in other passages. is, you know, if I subjected 2 Corinthians 3, 5, it's so eerily similar to what Peter said. Now, this is from Paul, but just watch the phraseology,

and you see the same picture that we're discussing in 2nd Peter 3. It says... Where you have? I said 2nd Corinthians, but it's 1st. Yeah, it's 1st Corinthians 3. So you remember they had this debate. about some are following apollos and we know the state of the corinthian church there was as in peter's discussing there was a lot of sinful behavior going on right and some just like peter said

some scoffers were getting around facing god and his truth in their life by saying well i'm going to follow apollos and i'm going to i'm not going to follow jesus i'm going i'm just going to pick who I'm going to follow. And so in verse 5 of 1st Corinthians 3 it says What after all is Apollus and what is

Paul only servants through whom you can to believe as the Lord has assigned to each his task. And then he goes on to saying some I planted the seed Apollus watered it but only God made it grow. So neither

he who plants nor he waters anything but only God who makes things go, the man he plants and the man who waters have one purpose and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. And then he says, kind of like what Peter does when he said, you know, we rise up as the building of God. We're God's fellow workers, God's field, God's building.

And then he makes this same application. So he gets down to verse 11 and says, for no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, stones, wood, hay, straw, his work will be shown for what it is because the day, which 2nd Peter 3 calls it the Lord's Day, will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.

If what he is built survives, he will receive his reward. reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only is one escaping through the flames. So you have an illustration of there's a day coming. What you've built your foundation on in life matters. And the work that you've pursued matters, and you will stand before God and have this moment. Yeah, scary. I mean, it's a, it is scary, but I think it's in here for a reason. And, you know, Luke 16 comes in mind where you have the rich man and Lazarus, and I think it's interesting that Lazarus has a name, and I think that's on purpose. And the rich man was just one of many in hell, and he's griping.

You know, Jesus is telling, it's the only parable in the Gospels that Jesus used where he actually use a lot. real name. Yeah. And I think he did that on purpose. Which has created a lot of debate as to whether it was a real story, was it a real person? You know, there's a lot of theological debate over, you know, was it really a parable, you know.

Which is what we're talking about. You read a lot on the spectrum of debate about that. To Zach's point, we intellectualize that parable. It's probably one of the most argued parables there is. And debated, that's right. But the ramifications are, look, he's in hell. It's not good. And he's still griping a complaint.

I mean, basically when you look at what the rich man's arguments were, he wanted Lazarus to come to hell with him. Yeah. You know, and cool his tongue. Right. Just a drop of water. And he was basically, you know, throwing God under the bus by saying, well, you know, he didn't have enough information.

Because then he's like, well, go send one of the prophets to my brothers because if they knew how bad he was. bad this was they don't want to come here but he's actually implying that he didn't get enough information or he wouldn't have ended up there right and uh you know jesus was clear in that moment even if someone comes back from the dead they're not going to believe it because it comes back to your heart and what you have built your life on as the foundation and it gets to a point that we bring up many times everyone has something in the center of their life yeah You've got to figure out what that is.

And if it's anything other than Jesus, judgment day is not going to go well for you. And it's not God's fault. And you're right. And Jesus used a lot of illustrative language, whether he was being specific or illustrative, it was all bad. He used, you know, when you hear the words Ghenna, and when he's talking about the dump and trash heap and the worm that never dies

and all these descriptions. Darkness, yeah, gnashing of teeth. I mean, all these things were bad. Weeping, wailing. Weeping. Yeah, you're like, well, this is scary. That's why we made the point that Jesus spent more time talking about hell and judgment than any other person in the Bible. Yeah.

And all of it to the Jewish mind was this is something you don't want, you don't want this. And it's interesting because Peter comes along and he's trying to paint some of those same pictures of what you don't want to, you know, you don't want to be a part of. I was thinking, Jason, you mentioned that about it made me think about the law. last spoken words before that gap of silence that Malachi mentions. And he mentions that same day of the Lord in Malachi 4 when he says, see, I will send you the prophet Elijah, which we know he was talking about John the Baptist, before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes, he was mentioning that before Jesus comes to talk about what we're now talking about.

And that was about 400 year low. Right, before that happened. And saying like it would take the happen any moment. That's exactly right. To talk about how we talk about time. And he says, he will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, the hearts of the children to their fathers or else I will come and strike the land with a curse. And then that's that long gap before John the Baptist comes along.

So before we even get to this discussion that Peter's having, we see that push to the great and dreadful day of the Lord. You read Paul's description in 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 about how I think it gives a little more context. I mean, we don't know what it's going to be in terms of like, you know, actuality. But we do know this, that he will punish those. This is in 2nd Thessalonians 1, verse 8. He will punish those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. And this is how they'll be punished in verse 9. they would be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day that he comes to be glorified in his people and to be marveled at among all those who believe.

This includes you because you believed our testimony to you. And so I think that if you start to understand the framework of hell, truly being that you're shut out from the presence of the Lord, then the converse of that is true as well, that heaven is being in the presence of the Lord, and hell is being out of the presence of the Lord. So I think that when I think about what I fear more than anything is for God to give me over to myself. You know, like you did,

and when the wrath of God was revealed in Romans chapter 1, he said the wrath of God is being revealed, but that wrath was that he just leaves you to yourself. And I think Jay said on it when he last podcast, when he was talking about addiction, but it's any sin. It's any sin. If you just go to the end of that sin and say, I'm just going to pursue this, whatever this thing is, this pleasure, this, whatever it is, I'm going to go for it to the very end. In the end, that's going to be the very thing that destroys you. And I think that when you think about hell being a place of extreme loneliness, isolation, I mean, zero intimacy,

no connection, every man for himself, mad Max type of scene. It's going to be a very scary place for anyone who's there. I think Paul paints that description pretty good. No doubt about it, which we just said, if you have a foundation that's not Jesus, which just means that whatever you're going after in life, there's something else that you feel like if I get this, then I'll be, I'll be fine. I will arrive.

If I get a lot of money, a lot of people, it's, you know, it's money. If I make a lot of money and retire and can do whatever I want to, I will have made it. Well, that's, that's a lie. You're going to be disappointed. It's going to crush you. But you see that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be necessarily an evil thing. It could be something good because when you think about, you know, the fair,

see world. Here are these people who are following most of the commandments. They're, you know, they're living good lives, but it's a foundation that's not Jesus and grace, and it's going to, the end result is going to be the same thing. You will crumble because at the end of the day, you're not good enough. Right. Without Christ. That's why everybody has to come to that realization. I want to share something I saw. Very seldom do I recommend them, maybe. but I saw a good one last night. And I got to put this in context because it relates to what we're talking about. I spent a few hours studying Second Peter III and, you know, I've been out of town for days and Missy wanted to watch a movie.

And I was like, well, good luck, finding a movie worth watching. But we like, you know, most of the movies we watch are based on true stories. And so somehow another, she had watched a movie about Winston Churchill called The Darkest Hour. and she's like, I want to watch that again. And you'll love it. I've seen it. No, you've seen it. Yeah.

What do you think about it? I loved it. So I did too. And I think it's PG-13, but it's history. And based on me, you study in Sega Peter 3 for hours, so I made a spiritual application of a physical reality that happened in history, which was here is Winston Churchill. he is he becomes prime minister

and the next day you know Germany was literally routing their army they were in danger of being taken over by Hitler and the Nazi regime and so a lot of his advisors were saying

just surrender and let's make the best deal possible because we cannot we can't fight this arm I mean but he was thinking no nation I mean one of the things he said is no nation that has surrendered has ever become to anything he's like but the ones that died trying to be free and independent they might have got routed but they came back and they rebuilt so that and he just didn't want to

betray what what he what he thought but the more dire the situation became he just it looked like there was no possibility that they would not be under Nazi control. So he started entertaining the idea of surrendering, even though it was against everything he believed in. So he basically went out, you know, talked to the people, and I'm ruining the movie for you, but this is history. You can read out of a book. We pretty much know that is, Jay.

And so, but what I found fascinating was, and here's the point I want to make that I think, and you can watch the movie, it's incredible. It's great. The point was he finally realized that what do you have if an evil dictator, just pure evil, is running your country. What are you left with? And he finally realized, you know what? I'd rather die.

Yeah. And it's really in a personal, spiritual way is what everybody has to come to realize in their own life and faith. when they're considering Jesus. When you've got to realize whatever's driving you, there's not Jesus, you've got to be willing to die in order to have your life look like that being in control. You have to do it, which is really what the gospel is all about and how we respond to it. And so he made a comment that I'll never forget.

I didn't write it down, but I'll never forget it. but because when when peter says the lord in verse nine is not slow in keeping his promise as some understand slowness he is patient with you not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance and so you said what is repentance well it's a change of mind it's a change of heart you know based on who jesus is well Winston Churchill made a quote and because his advisors who thought they had him changing his mind in that he would surrender and just take the best deal possible.

When he came out and gave his speech after consulting with the people, in the movie, they had him ride in a subway asking what the people thought. I'm not sure that really took place, but if it did, that's awesome. But so the guys who thought they had talked into it, they said, well, did you change your mind?

And he said, well, what I found is one who does not change his mind, he can't change anything. And he was just saying, yeah, it really was. It was like, yeah, I changed my mind. I was considering it because I didn't see a path to victory. But so I started considering a surrender. But then I changed my mind, which the whole change of mindset was, I would rather be dead fighting tyranny and evil than

surrender to it. Yeah. So, I mean, I wish somebody could have preached the gospel to him in that moment, because it really is what we're about. You think about when people don't change their mind, and I know in my own life, when I've had a refusal to change my mind, it's because I built a foundation or I built whatever I was building on a foundation that I could not compromise. And so if you change, so you start, I think that's that point you were talking about

earlier in the scripture, reading about what you build your foundation on. if you build your foundation of your life on something that's not that's false, then what you'll do, you'll have to protect it because if this thing comes down, man, the whole thing's going to come down. And I think when I've, I got kicked in the teeth a few times.

I'm 45 and I'm the youngest of us, but I think all of us have been kicked into teeth a few times in life. And I think we're, what God wants us to do is build our life around him. Because that's, that's your double down. That's your change. You always be willing to change.

The reason why people don't want to change is because they don't want to compromise the kingdom that they built or maybe it's a big pride issue. You know, you're too prideful, but you start talking about entering into what you're mentioning here that comes from repentance. That's a good change to make.

And I think, ironically, to Winston Churchill's point, it's when you say I'd rather die than to live like this. Well, that's what happens. You do die. And then you're resurrected to live a new life, Roman 6. That was what my sermon was,

yesterday you put to death. I mean, it's what Peter said. Well, it's ironic that it's actually he wouldn't surrender to the, you know, tyranny and evil. So that the only caveat difference is we, what's crazy about what we do in Jesus is we do surrender is the path to victory. That's it. To a greater power than ourselves. But this power is 100% holy, 100% just, 100% percent.

Is that loving, eternal? I mean, all the qualities that God has. That's why he's the ultimate foundation. To live the best life, you put to death the old life. Yeah. It has to be done. It has to be done. And, you know, and so I said yesterday, you live, for me, I only lived a reckless life for

a short period of time, but it was enough. It was enough to know I didn't want to do that. And it made it extremely difficult to get out of. Oh. Because it tends to snowball. That's why I went into that when he said, I want to stimulate you to hold. to wholesome thinking. It's not the sins necessarily that are the problem. It was the thinking that led you into the sin, and then the sin just snowballed everything. And then all of a sudden,

you started isolating yourself. You started rationalizing your behavior. You started doubting that there's a God. And then you thought, well, there's no way I can come out of this. I'm too far gone. And all these excuses in your thinking. And that's what he's trying to jar them into saying, And these people running around telling you that God's not coming back and there's no judgment. I mean, he viewed them as a dog returning to its vomit. How could he, that's why he was using such graphic language. They don't think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God. Therefore, God gives them over to do what not to be done.

Which is a profound statement that everyone has to realize is that at some point in your life, you've got to realize that you're living a lot. Because we all do. That's what living a sinful life is all. about it impacts others in such a powerful way it was funny because Alex and I were talking my five-year-old granddaughter was watching the live stream version of Lisa and I yesterday so she's five years old and she's first listening to me preach and so you know you don't know what they're really comprehended but so when her ma'am which is her you know Lisa her grandmother gets up just because

she was emotional and talking and so she's probably not comprehending the word she's saying but the emotion of it carries through. Well, she starts crime. She's five years old. It's her grandmother that's speaking, but the emotion carried weight. And so she starts crime at the impact of that. And I thought about that, how that impacts others. And I said something yesterday in my sermon.

We must be become like these children. Like children, exactly. And so I talked about it how that when people live a reckless life, I said, you know, it's not just you. But there's somebody somewhere that is crying, praying, and hurt by your life. It never fails. And, Dad, I was thinking about for you, you know, you had a sister, you had a parent, you had someone that was concerned. And the whole time you were living a certain way, someone else was concerned about you.

And that's the thing about it. You don't live your life in a vacuum. That's right. And so, you know, you have to think about that. It's not just you. It's other people. It's relationships. It's what Zach was brazen about.

It's a relationship. Well, the whole theme of this, Second Peter, has been growing up in the Lord. And we brought up this about, you know, new babes needing to be fed like, you know, 1st Peter 2 was referencing. But when you think about it in this passage, you know, Second Peter 3, I mean, he's going to give this picture of what happens of the Lord's Day in judgment. There is a heaven. There is a hell. There are consequences. But then he spends the last few verses talking about God's unlimited patience.

He even brings it. up again in verse 15, bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation. I mean, he's not after us. And then what does he do? He spends the rest of the book talking about growing in the grace of the Lord. A realization that hell is real is real is not going to ultimately change your life. I mean, but it's going to point you in a direction of which Jesus is that will change your life. But when you ignore and rationalize and say it's not real, there's the problem. You're like there's no, that's the lie that you're telling, telling yourselves. And what I thought about this is these two big arguments in here, really kids illustrate that more than anything.

One is this, this idea of justice and the other is time. When you think about it, with kids, they're incredibly conscious of justice. Because when you, you, see like, you know, a kid has a toy and another kid comes up there and takes their toy. Oh, it's the end of the world. It's, stop it. What you're doing. That's right. This person stole my toy.

I'm screaming, flopping around on the floor because an injustice has been done and we must make it right. And they will continue to hold on that for days. the other thing is time when you tell your kid you know i'll learn this the hardware with little kids when they say how long till we get there it's an unanswerable question because they have no concept of time you know i used to say well it won't be long well then they you know five seconds later they ask you again well what it's either now or never if it's three hours that might will be never because they can't and they don't understand the concept of time it's just so fascinating to me that you see these things that we have a hard time wrapping our head around i just put the

Seinfeld line on jay my five ten minute well i finally just started saying it's way it's going to feel way longer than you think it's going to feel like an eternity and then they go ahead and throw their fit and get over it because it can be five minutes. It doesn't matter. You can't explain to them the concept of time and travel. How many miles is? Well, how long does that take?

You're having a meaningless conversation. Yeah, because they can't. Because in five seconds, they'll ask the same question again. We've already gone through this. But they don't have the experience to relate to that. And so I think ultimately that's how we are about hell. And that's why I said it could possibly be a metaphor, just like heaven, when you read things in Revelation, you're like, man, what does this mean?

And everybody writes books about what it actually mean. It would be like us living in the air, in the clouds. And then you've never been on land. You've never been on water. And then somebody tries to describe to you since we're people of the clouds what land and water is. Well, how are you going to be able to do that? so that's why we struggle with what exactly this means we're talking to you know a guy's in hell like the Luke 16 and he's wanting a drop of water well that didn't even make sense the point is he's in

such agony he wants some relief because a drop of water's not going to help him right and there's this great chasm where those are here cannot cross over to the neck you remember the league 16 he's like he was giving you this picture. Was it a real picture? Probably not, but it was trying to relate this is as bad as you can end up and there's no coming back from it. And the, you know, Lazarus, he was good. Which is, which is why I think that's why he painted the picture in, in First Peter 3 and in the way he kept talking about the dead and judgment was because you can't change that. In other words, it's unchanging.

No, I think you're right. That's why all these scholars, they can't figure it out. They kept saying he wants to go back in time and talk to these people. So, no, it's unchanging as his concept. I will say this. If your theology of the, as that calls it, the eschatology, if it lines up with a movie call back to the future. If you got to start doing some time traveling, I think you should stop and reconsider how you're viewing this. What about the espotimological?

Oh my goodness. Estimological. I even forgot what that meant. Epistemological. What did that mean? It is relating to the theory of knowledge, especially with regards. to its methods, validity, and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion. So what does that mean? I think Zach hit that in Ephesians 3. I mean, that was Zach really subtly saying, Jace, I agree with you. Because I love that verse what he read when it says, I pray that, you know, DeV Ephesians 317, that you being rooted in an established, and love may have power together with all the saints to grasp how wide, long, and how high and deep the love of Christ is, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge.

That's exactly right. So we can have our theology, but the theology has got to lead you to a personal relationship with God, which is what Peter was after because he was saying your life is not lining up with who you've surrendered to. He just keeps ringing up about the sinful desires of your heart, that list that you read from 1st Peter 4. I mean, all what we call these big sin, well, he's talking to believers.

You know, a dog returned to his vomit. I remind every group I speak to, including the one yesterday, when I get to the end, speaking of the gospel of Jesus, I always tell them. It's not rocket science. You don't have to be a big brain to see it. Keep it simple. It's not complex.

Too complex to understand. Nope. Jesus, him crucified and raised from the dead. It's not rocket science. It did happen. It is real. We are counting time by the one who did it. And he said, I'll end it.

I don't see where the problem is. Just do it. Well, and he keeps saying, look, you've been... The guy wanted me to pray for him yesterday. He came out of the audience, and he said, that was as simple and powerful as anything ever. You know, pray for me that I can just see that.

So I did. So his wife responded to Lisa's story. I mean, no story. Because it's powerful. And that's the thing. They were just passing through, never seen them for in my life. The point is, once delivered, Why would you ever want to go back, which is what he kept saying in his first letter,

why would you want to do that? And then he continues it later. And even, Jay, says what he was talking about when he's talking in chapter four, because he's saying these pagans, you know, he's like, why would you want to live like they do? You spend enough time doing that. You've left that. You don't want to go back to that. That's his point.

They have scoffers, whatever the scoffer me, I don't know a duck definition. of us I mean the niv translates translates it scoffer scoffer these scoffers had convinced them that the flood didn't happen that or you know and even if it did a person who mocks or makes fun of someone or something often of religion or moral values that what is that well that's a great word then yeah so there's a lot of scoffers out there say oh you Jesus following people there's no consequences they're you got to remember

they're mean the problem with the scoffer they're mean and I think this because you do have to change your mind you do have to have this moment where you got to say I'm not going to surrender to evil thinking especially look when they have no other rational ideas about

the afterlife I mean that's what the scofferner offer has no alternative because I don't know of any other besides the eternal God and what he did through Jesus. Which to your point, Jay, don't you think it's, you make fun of what you can't, what you have no idea of how to explain? You make fun of it. That's what you do.

And look, it's an assault on Jesus loving, believing people in our culture. I mean, you see it every day. Right. any like if there's if something happens in a church where somebody famous or a pastor or whatever if they do anything immoral and whatever that is front page with the with the culture that they all point your fingers look at here boy this I mean how many movies are there any kind of cult or religious groups that goes off the rails I mean people are still talking about the people drinking the Kool-lade and the and so they're like well that's That's all a religious people right there, a bunch of crazy. No, they had some scoffers in the camp that had infiltrated, and they got off the foundation being Jesus, because when you really take a look at Jesus to Zach's point on Ephesians 3,

you look at Jesus and what he represents, and you're not going to find anything, there's going to be no holes. I'm confident that if you will look at Jesus for yourself, you will find no accusation of sin. and you'll find nothing sinister, malicious, or does it make sense to live in forever? You're not going to find it. That's right.

That's what I was like Zach. I was a skeptic. When I came, you know, to faith in Jesus, I was kind of trying to disprove God through the Bible. I just thought, oh, there's no way. I mean, you're talking about, you know, some dude getting eaten by fish. I took the most crazy stories and thought,

eh, ha, ha, ha, ha. I've seen a lot of fish. Now, I hadn't seen one that could eat me, and then I lived to tell about it three days later. But the more I got into looking at Jesus, I was just, you know, it convicted me. That was the little underlying thread of the Jesus Revolution movie, which was really well done.

So, you know, you got the whole story with the Greg Lurie, is the pastor, and it's his story of, when he's converted. And then you got the hippies and how they kind of, you know, they're, them becoming Christians. And you got this pastor out there and his movement. But the underlying little thread that was a little hidden gym and there was the guy

that's writing a story for Time magazine. And he keeps popping up and you know who the guy is. It was an African American guy. And at the end of it, it's like, oh, yeah, we got this magazine. You didn't even know. And it just shows that they made the cover of Time magazine in the late 6th. 60s, which would have been a big deal back then, the Jesus Revolution. But his dialogue at the end of the movie was interesting because he says, you know,

he's talking to the guy who's going to be the future pastor. And he says, well, you know, I don't want to check this out because, you know, things are pretty bad. And I don't know if this is true or not, but I really want it to be true. And it was really interesting because he's a skeptic, you know, because he's a journalist. And he, you know, I am just here to cover the story. You know, he's like a newsman. But he's like, things.

are so bad, I want this to be true. Yeah. And I thought that was really fascinating because from a skeptics perspective, would it be better if Jesus and Christianity were true? And we really had relationship in heaven and you didn't have what was described with all this bad stuff going on? I've never heard one yet answer the question. Who has the best story?

I mean... And I wait for an answer and they're just silence. They're just trying to think. Let's see. All my sins are moved and being raised from the day and live forever. You got a better story. Come on out with it. I want to hear it.

We're silent. Cickets. We're still waiting. Still waiting. So I feel like we should read 310 through 13 when it says, but the day of the Lord will come like a thief. So that weeds out all these predictions, which I'm not sure why people feel obsessed when you have a clear verse that says it's going to come like a thief.

So why is the religious world trying to figure out when that's going to happen? Yeah. So if you're going to a religious group of people where the guy's getting up. You'll be looking till the day he comes. Yeah. And if he has a date circle on the calendar, I would go somewhere else. I really would. And that also means that it hasn't happened yet because there's some people in that camp.

Oh, yeah, it's already happened. Yeah. No. We're still waiting. We're still waiting. You know, there's a camp for everyone, Al. There's a lot of camps up there, too. The day of the Lord will come like a thief.

So the heavens will disappear with a roar. The elements will be destroyed with fire and everything in it will be burned up. Now, what's confusing about this, if you hadn't been in the faith long, because people say, well, wait a minute. I thought we were going to heaven. And this says the heavens will disappear and the elements will be destroyed by fire. So I think we should bring up the phrase heaven and earth. So where's that in Isaiah?

It's in the 60s. So like the phrase new heaven and new earth, this was not introduced right here. If you go back in Isaiah or just do a Google search of it, you'll see that it represented, it was used in the Old Testament to represent what Jesus was bringing in the church from the old ways of Judaism. And so it would say a new heaven and new earth.

So that was a, when you look in what the Greek words are saying. So in this case, that's why this is such a hotly debated passage. Because an average person would read this and say, oh, well, we're going to get a new earth and a new heaven. Because he goes on to say, no, the verse 11 is that what that means to our lives since everything will be destroyed this way what kind of people ought you to be you ought to live holy godly lives godly lives as you look forward to the day of god speed is coming that day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire the elements will melt in the heat but in keeping with his promise which is where he started this whole section in uh was it second

peter one or first peter one second peter one verse where he said he's given us the very great and precious promises so that we may participate in the divine nature. So one of the promises he's given us is that we're going to live forever with him. So but in keeping with this promise, we're looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So there's a new order that's going to take place. The reason I brought up this phraseology of new heaven and new earth, which Peter would have been familiar with Isaiah to the point of this would have been a common phrase. Isaiah 65.

Oh, Isaiah 65, 17 through 25. Thank you. Way to go, Maddie. Miss Concordance. So when you read that, my point is, whatever you believe is going to happen. I mean, we can talk about it, whether it's a renovated earth, because it says new earth. So people, so it's a renovated earth. It's a big change, but a good one.

good change, but like I said, it's hard for our human brains to comprehend living eternally. Number one. Number two, it's hard for our human brains once we get our head wrapped around that, because when you start thinking of living forever and ever and ever, that's hard enough. Then how and where we're going to live, I got nothing. Yeah. I mean, because it's hard for me to relate. What are we going to be doing?

What are we going to do? How am I going to look? What am I going to be? Am I going to be a 33-year-old version of myself? Or I'm going to be. We can't help. But then we're getting back to the kid thing. That's why I brought up the kid thing.

They're never going to, a three-year-old is never going to wrap their heads around that it's going to take three hours and 30 minutes to get there. And you're never going to be able to describe going to a beach when they've never been to a beach. You're like, it has sand. They're like, what is sand? well uh i got nothing it's like dirt you walk on little yeah it's like dirt you walk on little yeah it's like dirt and so what i'm saying is why do we have the same we recognize it with our kids we're kids in christ we haven't been to heaven now a lot of people claim they have they saw the

light well they were on their way you know we see a light but you know maybe your brain just But even the Jewish mind, when you say the word heaven or heavens, they view that at three levels. That's when Paul said I was caught up in the third heaven. They have heavens, meaning the sky, what we would call the sky, and then what we would call the universe above the sky, the heavens. And then they would say where God is is beyond that. That's what Paul said. He took a trip to the third heaven. And so I mean, but so what I'm saying is when you start trying to describe that, that's one word, heaven or heavens.

But there's three different levels. It's a doozy. It's a doozy. It's not. So my point is, it doesn't matter to me. And I don't think it matters to y'all. What exactly you believe on when this is going down, because it's going to be like a thief, on how this is going to look. Does it really matter? No. It doesn't matter. If you look around,

if it's going to be a renovator, no, look, I've said this same statement and religious people get extremely upset. It does matter. And I'm like, no. It's like, you know, my first house costs not much money, and it looked like a dumpster fire.

And my last house, I think, looks great. It looked like a palace. I've been in it. Does it really matter? Does it really matter? The point was, There's an upgrade there, and I believe we're on the way to an upgrade.

And I'm a little more comfortable than I was. But the bottom line is, it was who was in the house. It was my wife and my kids. Nothing changed. That's what makes a home. I mean, if I put all my eggs in the basket on how big my house was, I would miss the whole point of having a house. You'd still be building on it. Yeah, I'd still be building.

I'd build a bigger one. And there comes a point where, like, you know, I think I'm good. And I'm just using that as an illustration that the key moment and the key phrase of this whole discussion, and I think Peter's discussion, is you've got to look deep into your life and your heart and say, what is the center of this? The foundation needs to be Jesus. And that's where all these decisions come out of. You arm yourselves with the attitude of Jesus.

That was the first Peter four. we forget we got so caught up into all these things that we do and the baggage that comes along with our sinful lives our attitude should be like jesus so we have to take first of all a good look at who jesus is and what he did and it should break our hearts we should surrender to him we should reenact his death barrel resurrection you know surrender to it we should repent change our mind change our you know the gospel changes everything that's a great statement on that and then Yeah, one of these days, we look up and we're going to be the people rubbing our hands together when Jesus comes back. You're like, well, you're rubbing your hands together for it? Because we're excited. We're excited about this.

We're going home. We're going to where God is and where the people who love God go. And so if we spend all our energy, I really think that's what our reward is. I did a long study on what is the reward. Because there's a lot of verses in there. It says, you will receive a reward. Well, think about what is it? it what's not anything material you're alive and not dead i think it's the people that you had a hand

in bringing with it that is the reward is because the only thing that's going to stand up under the heat of fire is god and his people we're out of time here but i think in the next podcast jess we need to talk about that the rewards of heaven that would be a great oh it's yeah well i have it rewards as in god and people yeah i like that Let's talk about that on the next podcast. A little bit more we'll talk about in overtime in this text, because I thought you brought up a good point about kind of the true motivation of this. So blazedtv.com slash Unashamed if you want to follow us over for a little more in overtime.

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