Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 655 | Phil’s Got a Funny Idea of Heaven & Jase Is in the Doghouse for a While!

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Jase really stepped in it this time, and Missy didn’t let it slide! Phil has a simple hope for how heaven will be, and Jase hazards a guess about what some people will be doing during the second coming. The guys explore scriptural clues as to the nature of heaven and compare them to old-school ideas about streets of gold and pearly gates.  In this episode: 2 Peter 3; Hebrews 1, verses 9-12; Hebrews 11, verses 13-16; Luke 16, verses 27-21 John 5, verses 28-30; Matthew 6, verses 19-21; Revelation 21, verses 1-23 "The Blind" hits theaters this fall. Get updates, trailers, behind-the-scenes moments, and special opportunities here: https://theblindmovie.com — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So the mist known as Zach is flown back into our presence again. Zach, we were last podcast, you were coming and going, but it looks like you're here today. Are you here? Yeah, we're hardwired. See, what happened was, what had happened was the internet situation was unstable. So now what I've done is I've had a computer that's stationary to my right. which I'm looking at right now.

You can't see it on camera. And it's hardwired into the internet. Sometimes just got a hard wire. You just got to go. No, the lesson there is do not put your faith in the internet. That's true. Dad, can you agree with that point? I live, but.

Let's go home now. It's it. Drop the mic. Did I miss anything, though? I know I was out on over. Yeah, you missed a lot. The main thing was, in my opinion, you know, We have overtime segments that we have.

And, of course, you have to subscribe to have those segments. And so we ended in the overtime yesterday. And Jason had had a story to illustrate. It wasn't a story. I was bearing my soul. I told a secret. It was when you forgot. You were going to tell the story to illustrate because you'd used a Keller

illustration in the regular podcast about how children have a hard time understanding time and justice. Oh, I can't believe you. remember that. It really revealed a lot to me. It was a great illustration. Thinking of that illustration. Kids want justice now. Yep. And they don't understand the concept of time. No understanding. We'll be there in three hours. You might as well have told them three years. There's going to be... Zach, you have a lot of kids, so you should totally be able to relate to that, right? You go on a trip.

Since the theme of Second Peter is about growing in Christ and maturing and growing up, I thought it was a great illustration. It was very good. Because when you apply it to the afterlife and judgment day, we have the same problems wrapping our head around that. Because we're literally, from God's perspective, kids who we don't understand what heaven or hell is going to be like because we haven't been there. And the timing thing is pretty much the same, where everybody's wondering when it's going to happen or predicting when it's going to happen or being impatient about it. or just denying that it's going to happen. So he gets to the end of the podcast, and he was making this illustration,

which I thought was really good. Then we get in the overtime, and he said, oh, I should have told, or actually we get to the end of the podcast, we're about to start overtime. And he says, oh, I should have told my Christmas story. Well, it's a perfect illustration for my past. To illustrate this from my own past,

and I was like, well, tell this story in overtime. I shouldn't have done it. So I had no idea this story that I've never heard before. and I thought I'd heard all of Jay's stories. And I didn't realize how entertained I was going to be by this story. So in my opinion, those of you who have not made the leap to overtime, this story alone would have been worth a subscription to Blaze TV. So we decided to revisit it, Zach, since you missed it yesterday, since you were having

internet trouble. And Jace has new information because it also included an updated story that involved Cole and Missy. and apparently you went home and told Missy what you did and I don't know update us or what happened I guess you're going to have to tell the whole thing now well I walked in after the podcast and Missy's like she always says how did it go I said oh I thought it was fantastic we were really getting down deep into second Peter some difficult dangerous type passages I feel good about it and I said you know I kind of I just left

my childhood memory out there and I said I don't know why everybody thought it was funny and she's like what childhood memory was that I should have just said no let's just leave it there yeah I'm an idiot I told her I said well you remember when I told you about my mom because we didn't have any money and I one of the few things I got excited about was Christmas and look I'm I was selfish. I just wanted free stuff. And so I was just annoying her by saying, when's it going to be here? When are we getting our pre? How long before Christmas? I was doing what kids do. Because you didn't understand time. I didn't understand time. And I one morning I said, look, when is it going to happen? And she said, never. And I was like, never. I mean, I was devastated. We're not doing Christmas this year.

So I'll run. Yeah, it sounds horrible, but she was, she was just thinking, I'll lower his expectation. It's just like the second coming. She's like, if you don't have an expectation, I mean, it was the second Peter III argument. I just now realized it. She was like, where's this coming? Everything goes on as it's always been going on. It's not coming.

You're getting nothing. We're not doing it because she was thinking, one, he'll quit talking about it. Two, his expectations will be so low. When it does come, he'll be so surprised. It's like a thief. Devastated me. So I wrote a letter to Santa Claus because I believed in Santa Claus. So what was your age at this time?

Oh, six, seven years old. I was a kid. Yeah. I was devastated. That's why I remember it. I was specific. I want Miami Dolphins gear from Santa Claus. So what happened was when I got the stuff, she was right.

But I wasn't warm and fuzzy told her because I thought, thought, well, she lied, and Santa Claus came to the rescue. Still came to town. Yeah. Santa Claus is coming to town's a song. Well, then she realized. She's still the villain. That's why I love her.

Mom is still the villain. So then she realized she had messed up because I had a terrible attitude then. I was like, no thanks to you. Santa Claus bailed you out. You ought to be thankful. Well, then she thought, well, now I got him believing in a person that doesn't exist. She's like, let me tell you something. I am Santa Claus.

Well, now I'm devastated again. She's dashed dream number two. So I'll go through the story with Missy, and she's like, well, it all makes sense now. And I could tell by her tone. So what do you mean? She's like, I mean, I'm just going to tell you, when you told Cole that there was no Santa Claus, it wasn't that you told him that. It was that you covered it up for years.

and you don't realize, I'm just standing here. This is yesterday after the fight cat. She said, I'm sitting in my room and my 12-year-old son comes in there and tells me that his dad, my husband, told him eight years ago that there was no Santa Claus.

And you let me go through all the motions every year. I didn't realize he was four years old. But I had this memory and I'm going to tell you, Al, I figured in 20 years we had gotten through this, the wound was like I had just stabbed her in the back. It was like a band day got ripped off. She's like, he's four years old. He wasn't old enough to handle that.

She was raising her voice. Not like screaming, but just like, how could you not think? You were right back into it. I said, babe, I had a child. Well, did it any time somebody suggest the fact that evidently, now he's in his early 20s, and he's doing well in business. Well, I brought that up, but it was not the right thing. I mean, it wasn't life changing in a negative way, for sure.

Yeah, probably, yeah, probably we'll get there, but not today. Well, the problem was they had this thing that she put up, it's called an elf, a moving elf or something. Do you all know what that? Elf on the shelf. Elf on a shelf. Yeah, the moving elf. Somebody, obviously, you know, with imagination, comes up

with this elf that they put on a shelf, and then they move it during the night while the kids asleep. I was vehemently opposed to this, because I was like, what do we teach him, magic tricks to our kids, you know? Well, Missy was doing this, because it's helping them believe in Santa Claus or whatever. It's bringing back the magic.

And so he came in there, and he's like, Dad, he's four years old. So what about this? I mean, I just can't believe. I mean, every night there's, they're moving that i was like your your mom's moving that this is not real she's doing that to cause excitement about santa claus and he's not real either we're we're santa claus so you be a good boy and you instantaneous with talk like that became a target well but i said here's the deal don't

tell you mom so eight years the conspiracy went on and at 12 he was going you know we're all when we're 12. Well, you could be arguing about a lot of other stuff that was more important. No, we weren't arguing. I was being chest-high. Yeah. So thank you. You did the right thing.

I think you did the right thing. Everybody's come clean now. Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the Santa Claus. You know, we've had, I mean, I told my kids early, Jill got mad about it. Yeah, I never was a big fan of the whole, the whole story. You know what I mean? And some people. Well, look, I apologize to her yesterday.

I was like, well, because I mean, I should. You were coming from your own experiences, you know. I mean, I was. You were hurt. Hurt people, hurt people. You know what I mean? I apologize for the cover up. I said, you know, I should have just told her.

Now, that was true. Yeah. You see what I mean? Because then all of a sudden, I'm like, don't you tell your mom? And then he goes and tell, it's like on his conscience from eight years. I forgot that even happened. I didn't know he was four. She informed me yesterday.

He was four years old, Jace. I was like, have we not got past this? So anyway. Well, we can laugh about it now. I was trying to make an illustration. I don't want our listeners to be surprised when Jesus comes back. My heart was right. I still thought the illustration was good.

And I don't know why it's so funny to me, but it was just something like to mind me. Well, that's what she said. She said, why did they think that was funny? I said, I really don't know, but they laugh. about it the whole time. She said that's not funny. I know, but it still makes me laugh. There's something about the Miami Dolphins. I don't know. It just, I don't know at all Well, then she makes it worse and she said, well, I really thought damn Marino was cute back I was like, see, that's funny. I mean, damn marina. I said, really? I said, he shaved.

She said, what's I got to do with anything? I said, look who you married. How could you think he was cute he's the total opposite of me that's right but with the curly hair it was just one of those marital uh conflicts yeah luckily we you know it ended on a positive it could have been worse we can all we can all laugh she gave me a she gave me a hug and kissed me on the forehead i won't bring it up for to her she said i love you anyway and i said well thank you babe so we we got there we well there you go that's so zach that's what you missed yesterday it was a lot of I missed a, it looks like I missed a lot. Wow.

It was therapeutic. We all got through it. We can talk about it. We can work out our differences. And there you go. Is that not the argument of Sake of Peter 3? It is. Where's this coming?

Verse 4. Ever since our father's died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation. That's exactly right. And then Peter gives them a reminder of what happened with the flood. So we kind of let it off talking about, we were going to talk about, heaven itself kind of the because we talked about Zach we brought out this idea of the new heaven and new earth and we want to explore a little bit more about that for sure because we we kind of ended jay's talking about that concept for yeah i brought up you know Isaiah brings that up right but he

brought it up in a picture that when jesus came he would fulfill the law i'm paraphrasing obviously but it would be a new heaven and a new earth for literally the globe of because now the Holy Spirit would become available. The old system of law. Was pointing to Jesus' era, the church era, when he was talking about the establishment of the kingdom of God. Now, I'm saying that as fact. Some people believe that, you know, Isaiah is referencing the same thing. Peter's referencing here, and that's fine.

Yeah. But we do have a difference. Well, right. View that differently. But all I was saying is the phrase is, was symbolic. back in their day of a new world. Right. A new set of circumstances.

A new, I don't have a strong enough word for it. So I'm not sure exactly what heaven's going to be like or if it's a renovated earth or it's a heavenly earth. But I know that we're going to be resurrected. We're going to have imperishable bodies. We will live forever. We'll be with other believers. and other relationships that we formed in and through Christ. And how that's, what that's going to look like?

I'm really not that concerned. Well, Jesus stacked up beside the cosmos, Hebrews 1 about verse 5 or 6, your throne, oh God will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. You've loved righteousness and hated wickedness. therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the all of joy. He also says in the beginning, now here's a timeline type thing,

O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of your hands. It's interesting that Peter makes a point that both will perish, and the Hebrew writer said the same thing in verse 11 Hebrews 1 They the heavens and the earth They will perish But you remain For they all wear out they'll all wear out like a garment You'll roll them up heaven and earth

And your years whenever you remain the same And your years will never end then he makes a point about the angelic beings. But that is kind of interesting that it does follow a pattern. The Bible writers said the heavens and the earth, Peter said like a big wind, it's going to be the elements that everything will melt in the heat. It's completely and totally obliterated.

But the sons and daughters of God live on. Yeah, and there is a final. change to whatever that's the final eternal you know existence is going to be the end of verse 12 and 13 the second part of 12 that day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire and the elements will melt in the heat but in keeping with his promise we're looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth the home of righteousness so there's there's the Hebrew writer stacked up next to what peter was saying but there's going to be some big changes coming ladies and gentlemen.

But we, and as we said, the terminology has been around for a while. Another one, James, we didn't mention, but in line with the Isaiah 65, Jesus said in Matthew 24, which when we studied Matthew, we talked about that potentially being what happened in AD 70. It could be the end of time. He said heaven and earth, again, will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Same again, picture. Yep.

Was he talking about? That's the picture. Yeah, another era. But then he said in that same context, this generation will not pass away before this has happened. So again, it's dis languaging the idea about that there's something new and something different. Yeah, I think ultimately it's that waiting place that it's what we're waiting for, however you really interpret it. It's the place that, you know, was it, Romans 8 says the creation waits with eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed and to be liberated from its bondage to decay and, you know, the groans that we all kind of grown as, as a creation, this, this is the,

this is the place where that's made new. It's the place where, where the new heaven and the New Earth are made whole. Going back to the Hebrew writer, Hebrews 9 talks, I think, Hebrews nine, it talks about the copies, you know, the tabernacle was a copy of, of the temple that we're in now. I think that's in Hebrews 9. And I think that the heaven and the earth, they're all copies of the ultimate and final or the finality of what God is accomplishing. So whatever it is, whenever this new heaven and new earth arrive, we do know it's going to be the place where our tears are wiped away. It's going to be the place of victory. The final battle has been won. We are now dwelling with our God in glory. And that's, I mean, that's what we're waiting on.

I mean, it's what the resurrection points us to. It's the obliteration of wrong. That's it. It's a home of righteousness, you know, which is pretty interesting that you're in a place where nothing wrong ever happens. It's always okay, right. Death has been conquered. I mean, you know, it's a, it would be very, very good. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a passage of hope, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. We're anchored into it. Well, I wanted to mention because we talked just a little bit about it yesterday, but there's a passage in Matthew 6 where Jesus says something interesting, and I want to get your take on it when he says, Matthew 619, do not store up for yourself treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but store up for yourself treasures in heaven

where moth and rust do not destroy where thieves do not break in and steal for where your treasure is there your heart will be also yeah so that concept treasure in heaven what do you think he meant by that i mean because that's where a lot of this concept comes from jace we were talking about these these images that we read about in revelation and others where that's it's a complete eradication of sin, wrong, pain, uh, war in your mind. Right. You know,

you know, you know, you know, you could take the fruit of the spirit. Those things, you say that's where these things are. Yeah. And that's what you'll be given. Right. You know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control. It's, it's, everything. saying it's all the negative, all the tears, all the, I'm not worth anything. It all comes to

a head and it'll be that way forever. It is quite a, it's a better story than the atheist story where there's, there's no God and this thing got here via a big explosion somehow. They don't, it's, this is covered and this is a far better story than there's nothing out there. One thing's for sure is it can't be the very things that are described on the earth, as we made this point in the last podcast, the jewels and the gold and all that stuff that he's talking about that are on the earth. Which is what a lot of the songs are about. Because the thing about it, he says,

those are the things that can be stolen and that rust and destroy. He's like, it won't be that. Yeah. So this idea that somehow that heaven is like a big vault that nobody can get into that one day, man, and we're going to be able, those are our treasures. That's exactly the point he's. I mean, I go away.

The thieves and the robbers, they don't exist anymore. Well, that's the deal. There's no thieving, right? I mean, the idea of thieving is going to put some of your equipment down, whatever you care, and then nobody will steal it. They'll still be there when you get back. Which is so funny, Dad, because we've talked about this for on the podcast. That was always a big deal with you, is you should be able to set something down

and not having to worry about somebody picking it up. That was always the thing with you. I've learned that lesson being on planet Earth for 76 years. And to you in heaven, that would be a neat thing to be able to do that, right? I mean... Well, I will guarantee you. So you got this picture, you know, when Jesus said, what was that in John? Three or four, maybe five.

He said there'll be a resurrection of the righteous and the wicked. You know, the righteous to live and the wicked. to be condemned. Is that John 5? Let me find that. So then you have, I'm looking for it. Yeah, John 5, 28, 330. And then you have First Thessalonians 4.

You know, Zach brought up First Thessalonians, the last podcast. The second Thessalonian, one, yeah. First Thessalonian 413 through 18, I mean, gives you a visual of the resurrection actually taking place. The body's coming out of the ground, the people still alive being changed in the point.

Yeah, and then we're talking about flying. Not that we have to fly. I mean, it's translated. You know, we meet the Lord in the air. Some people call it the rapture. But I will guarantee you that somebody will grab a suitcase of money when this all goes down. Because they're saying, what's happening?

Where are we going? There'll be somebody that's thinking, well, I may need this. Yeah. But you may be going the wrong way if that's your first instinct. But I'm just saying... If that started pulling you back down, would they let it go? That's the question. Yeah.

Do you all agree that somebody's going to grab a suitcase of money? They're going to do it. I think where we're going, the last thing you're going to need is money. They're going to grab a passport. They're going to grab some money. And they're going... Because in every movie you've ever seen these doomsday scenarios, I always got to sheer panic breaks out.

What do they call it your gold, though? You got your, what they call it, your stash bag or something? Your bugout bag. Bug out bag. That's it. You got to take that. Yeah, to Jason's point, here's why I know they'll grab the bag of money. Somebody asked me literally yesterday, they said, what are you doing about the potential

coming bank banking collapse? So have you got all your cash out at your house? And I'm like, let me tell you something. So if the bank collapses, like what you're talking about, cash ain't going to be worth anything anyways. And it's just, I mean, it's kind of futile. We've got bigger fish to fry. So you take that and you multiply that times infinity.

And that's what you're up. But there will be people that I'm sure will say, oh, we've got to grab this one last thing, not realizing like what's about, like what we're walking into. Yeah. You know? No, exactly. Now I want to bring up, I brought up Luke 16.

Because I really think it gives you a picture of the finality of this. And I was going to tie it in with, you know, after First Thessalon's 413 through 18, which I find very encouraging, that we're going to meet the Lord of the air and we're out of here. I like it. Well, he continues that thought. Somebody put chapter 5, but it really is just a continuation. Then he starts talking using the same kind of language that Peter used when he's like, well, this day shouldn't surprise you like a thief, even though he's coming like a thief.

Because, you know, first session is 5-1 says about times and dates, we don't need to discuss. And Peter seems to be bringing that up because everybody wants to know, oh, well, when is it going to happen? You say, why do they want to know? Well, because they want to be ready. I mean, and they want to know that it's real. If people knew, well, they would start making changes in their lives. But the reason I want to tie that in with Luke 16 is I find it interesting that most people think, well, if I knew hell was real, well, I would change my life. But that's the same argument that the rich man had in hell.

He was like, at the end, when you get to that story, he's like, now look, I beg you, this is Luke 1627. He's in hell. This is Jesus telling this, what I call a parable with the real person, I guess. But he said, I beg you, send Lazarus to my father's house for I have five brothers. Let him warn them so that they will not also come to this place of torment. And that pretty well sums up, I think, people's thoughts. They're like, if hell is real, prove it to us. will get that out to our ken folks yeah we i mean he basically was asking for lazarus to come back

from the dead with a letter from him from the rich man to his brother saying look out below it's bad so but notice what jesus does with this story because 29 abraham replied they have Moses and the prophets, let them listen to them. Because when you think about reading them between the lines, what's his point? Well, Moses and the prophets, they pointed people to Jesus and why he had to come. And the motivation behind Jesus' ultimate death, right? And a lot of unbelievers were there, too. Well, right.

So then he says, no, Father Abraham. He said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repeat. repent. So he, you know, the rich man has gotten this theology in hell. He's now making a theological argument. If someone from hell comes back, people will repent. I mean, it's interesting to me that Peter is saying something totally different. He's, he's saying, the reason you have the ability to repent is God's patience. He's, he's, he's patient. And we know, that is given to him. And kindness. There's another verse where it was Paul says that right. Yeah, exactly. Kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. So then, I think it's interesting. So 31 says,

he said to them, if they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced, even if someone rises from the dead. Well, that's an interesting thought because you're like, well, wait a minute. Now, I would believe if somebody came back from the dead. But when you think about it, you would only believe because you would be looking out for yourself. And it's why we should talk about hell and we should point out that it's real and people are going to go there. But it's not the motivation to repent because that's still about you. You're only repenting because that's in your best interest. And so that's why he's going to get to the end of Second Peter, which we'll do next podcast.

And what's he get back to? Grow in grace. because really it has to be based, which I think is what his point was in Luke 16 about Moses and the prophets, you understand who Jesus is and what it cost him to save you and why he did it.

And then all of a sudden you're basing your decision on that instead of you being kept from harm. So ultimately that's what we're discussing. That's why we don't spend as much time about talking about hell or, you know, judgment day, because we are focused on the grace of God. That is the foundation by which you act and perform. You're not simply looking out to try to save your own skin,

which is why Jesus was debunking his argument from hell. Having said all that, it is noteworthy. It should get your attention that this is not the way you want to, you know, that should lead you to pursuing a relationship with Jesus. And being the key of where you, right, you don't want to focus on the negative but at the same time you want to realize being away from God. It's there. It's there.

It's there. And don't be listening to Scott, I think is overall Peter's point. But don't be listening to these nonsensical people saying, oh, there's no, there's no judgment day. There's no, I mean, my poor mom, you don't want to say Christmas is not. not coming. Don't worry about it. Because why did she tell me that? Because she wanted me to quit being, you know, worrisome about it and driving her crazy. Right. And then I was like, well, it's not coming. I don't. Who cares then in life? She didn't realize that the depression started, which is just what happens in our life. If there's no end and there's no God and there's no

judgment day and there's no new beginning, well, now what? Now we're all. And there's no reward. a reward. And life can be true. Which we didn't answer that question, but my opinion is the reward is other people. I don't know what else it could be. It's a relationship with God that's forever and it's other people. I didn't answer, I mean, I didn't quite finish my thought when I read that text from Matthew 6. He says, for where your treasure in verse 21 is, there your heart will be also.

So that tells me that when you're thinking about being in heaven, it does something to you. And I want to follow that up with reading this from Hebrews 11, because this is pretty amazing. Thinking about what Jesus said in Matthew 6, put that in with this thought. So he's talking about these people of faith, Noah and Abraham. And then he says this in verse 13. And think about this, in relationship to your treasure. and your heart being in heaven already, even though you're living on earth.

What verse is that? This is Hebrews 11, 13. All these people, who's been talking about, Abraham, Noah, you know, that have lived before by faith, were still living by faith when they died.

They did not receive the things promised. They only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. And particularly, I think he's talking, about Abraham because remember Abraham was called to go somewhere that he wouldn't even see the finished product.

That would happen hundreds of years later after he was gone. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country. Now, everything could have been earthly up to this point until he says this, a heavenly one. therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God for he is prepared a city for them that might be why we keep seeing these people try to reroute everything and a lot of

sinful behavior they're looking for the perfect country yeah and so far they haven't found it right and so it's interesting empires power the countries utopia right oh yeah you know and you have all these dictators should You have what we have now, which is a complete chaos. And we keep thinking. Looking for a better, better country, you know. Is Jesus in there somewhere? No, forget him.

We just have the right politics, the right party, the right this. But everything is about earthly. But even Abraham, who was called to something that he wouldn't see in his lifetime, still had a vision of something better. And I get that idea from what Jesus said. It was always about something better. And God said, look, you only know the half of it. what I have for you, the treasure I have for you, is so much bigger and better.

It's not even of this earth. See, I just think it's himself. Eternal life is quite the concept. I mean, being with the, we and with God is the reward. Right. That's just, I mean, you think about what Phil just said. Eternal life is quite the thing. And then you said at the same time that it's him,

which is exactly what Jesus said in John 17, He defines eternal life as knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ's son whom he sent. So I think that, like, John Piper has a great book called God is the gospel. And his point is, his main point is, this isn't a formula. This isn't something. We're not after eternal autonomous life. You know, when you get to heaven, heaven's not heaven because of the streets of gold. Heaven is heaven because it's where God dwells.

And so that's the same theme in Ephesiansians. I mentioned in the last podcast on Ephesians 3 about God dwelling with us. It's an Exodus when it talks about make a tabernacle for me. Why? So that I may dwell with my people. You know, when he institutes the temple, why did he build the temple?

Because he wants to dwell with his people. And now we are the new temple. You know, I was thinking when you mentioned that, Matthew 6, you know, when Jesus started the sermon on the Mount, you know what he said,

he said, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. And then here in 2nd Peter, right after he goes into this whole talk about hell, what we're talking about now, the real motivation, I think, is verse 13, which says, but according to his promise, we are looking for new heavens and a new earth. And this is the key phrase, in which righteousness dwells, because God dwells there. So the reason why Jesus can say, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled, is because in the new heaven and the new earth, righteousness will dwell. because God will dwell there and we will be in that right relationship with him, which is what we were created for. And I think that's the summation of all of this.

I can live with that, can't you? I don't live with that hope. But it is. It's a tangible hope. It's a personal hope. It's a hope and a, it's not an autonomous life. I think that's sometimes we want to think it's like heaven's going to be us living autonomously in some place that has golden streets. And I mean, I'm going to have a mansion. But I mean, that's kind of what the guy in the story of Lazarus, I mean, he was in it for himself. He just, he didn't really love God. He just didn't want to suffer.

And fear is, it is a motivation. And I think it's proper for us to have a motivation for a fear. But it can't be the only motivation. The primary motivation for life in the kingdom is love, its connection. It's, I want to be with Jesus. You never had to, when I was dating Jill in college, nobody had to say, hey, man, you didn't make sure you spend time with her. I wanted to be with her. I wanted to spend all of my time with her because I was in love with her.

And that's the same way with God. You know, that's what it's, imagine being in a relationship or you desire this other person so intensely, but you actually got to be with them all the time. And it's, that's a, that's a, that's a copy. It's a shadow of what God is, is offered us in Jesus. Yeah. And I noticed, I got Alex to, to. to run me a copy of, you know, heaven is a very popular word and topic

and a lot of popular songs, both in all genres. But I've noticed just from looking at them, a lot of them you recognize, but it's mostly the idea, most of these songs is not that heaven is beyond us. It's like bring heaven to here. Like heaven, you know, the idea is we can bring heaven to us, heaven's just a little piece of this.

Heaven will be on earth. Yeah, it's all here, right? I mean, most songs are... I believe just the opposite. I think it hell's on earth and the fire is raging every day. I'm leaning what you're saying. I'm leaning that way. I really think that's what happens.

And at the end of the day, because what does fire do? You know, we talked about this last podcast. It tends to, you know, when the fiery trials come up, and what was his whole point? you have two choices. You can either put your trust in God and hunker down and keep going and persevere, or you can become bitter, angry, or, you know, try to find some way to heal the pain outside of Jesus, you know. I mean, those are the two roads.

So I think hell is ultimately just an extension of what happens on the earth. But once you're isolated from God, you're in hell. hell. It's a place. It's a place heaven is. The Hebrew writer said that's why he came so that by his death he could deliver those from death who were afraid of death their entire life. But Jesus saw that. It's devoid. Heaven was devoid of death. You just live on and on and on. You'd never even contemplate death. Yeah, I agree. But think about John, but think about Jesus said in John 173, though, because it is important. We do, I believe the kingdom is here, the kingdom of heaven is here in part.

It's not in its full summation or consummation because there's still sin here. But if Jesus is right, which he is right, because he's Jesus, when he says that eternal life is to know the one true God and Jesus Christ, his son whom he sent, John 173, that's true. The question you have to ask is when can that happen? And that can happen right now today in this very moment, which means that I'm not waiting, you know, to grind out my 80 years on earth and then die and I get to go to heaven and have eternal life. What that means is that today at 45 years old, I am experiencing eternal life. I'm already in the eternal life of God.

Now, it's not fully here and we still have sin, pain, and a struggle. And there's a hope, a future hope. So it's the already but not yet kind of thing. You know, it's not yet. You know what I'm saying? No, I think you're making a great point because I want to go back. Very good point. I want to make the point that when you've got to go back to 2. Peter 1, 4, where you started this,

or 3 and 4 when he said, his power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him. And he's given us these promises so that we may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption. of the world caused by evil desires. Yeah, there it is. And my point is, when he gets down to the end and starts talking about judgment days coming and how this is going to work in the new heaven and the new earth,

when he says in verse 11, you ought to, you know, what should you do? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God. But he's always addressing, Peter, like every other New Testament writer, they're always addressing people who have been born again. Yep.

When you go back to his first letter, you remember that talking about being born again? And every other writer does the same thing. I think the world thinks, oh, they hear about hell, they hear about Judgment Day, and they're like, you know, I think I ought to try to do better. I need to get back into church. And they're missing the key thing here is that God has given us everything through understanding who Jesus is and the power of the Holy Spirit. we actually participate to Zach's point on earth being in the kingdom of heaven we have the divine nature inside of us yep and it nurtures us and we grow in in this faith as we as we go along you sleep better too he's not trying to get you just to do something you know and to make some

changes based on what's fixed to happen it's it's bigger than that you're born again he takes over in your life, you become a new creature, you become his mouthpiece down here. But you're also growing as in realizing that this is going to be eternal, me existing with God in a relationship. That's why persecution tends to have not much of an effect on the sons and daughters of God. It's not an issue. They're not going to buzz. Exactly. So, Zach, so the Apostle Paul agrees with the point you made. Here's what he said in Philippus 319. Their mind is on earthly things, people who you had described, but our citizenship is in heaven. You got it. And we eagerly await a savior from there. Well, that's the key for the Lord Jesus Christ, who by the power

that enables him to bring everything under his control will transform our lowly body so that they will be like his glorious body. So there's present tense. That's enough fuel for me. right there. I'm glad you brought that I thought about that verse earlier. Because I want to read something, which we haven't done when talking about this subject before. If you read Revelation 21 in verse 21, that's easy to remember. Because people say, what about the streets of goat? What's the, where's the street of goat? I'm going to take a left on the street of gold and meet Jesus.

So if you read it. You don't need a pickaxe to get your share of the goat. Yeah, so when people are grabbing their money when we're going to heaven This gold, you don't dig guess up. I may grab an axe. You don't need it. If the street is gold, okay, that's funny. So 2121 says the 12 gates, there were 12 gates, there were 12 pearls,

and each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was a pure gold like transparent glass, which is kind of weird. I've never seen gold that you could see through. When you get to heaven, get ready for the last gold rush. They read that. But if you back up and say, well, what was the thrust of this? You know, so when you read, this is probably the most famous passage outside of John 316 in the Bible.

But the first couple of verses of Revelation 21 says he saw a new heaven and a new earth. Same phraseology that Peter's using. same phraseology that Isaiah is using and for the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. And the first heaven. First heaven and earth. I saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem

coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying now the dwelling of God is with men and he will live with him. Now, when people read this, I'm not thinking about that street of goat, whatever picture that was in 21, 21. I'm like, wait a minute now, this is God, whether this judgment, you know, and the way we think there was an end-time judgment, you know, on the Roman Empire, on the destruction of Jerusalem, there's been many.

The goal rush is over. Yeah, there's been many other end-time judgments in our, our culture, and there'll probably be more. And there will be a final judgment. But all these judgments can be compiled with one central theme, which is that God will be with his people. And they'll be, they'll be, uh, he'll be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain for the old order has passed away. And look, I mean, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but it continues to focus on the relationship of being with God. In verse 7, it says, he who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God,

and he will be my son, which he's saying that with the inheritance in mind. You know? Well, then when you look at verse, there's another verse in here. that's in verse 10 it says and he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God it's shown with the glory of God and its brilliance was like and so he then gives all this description which streets of gold was part of it of the greatest jewels the greatest visual image of describing the relationship with God and his people.

Because watch what he gets when he gets to 22. I did not see a temple in the city. Because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city doesn't need the sun or the moon to shine on it. For the glory of God gives it light. And the Lamb is the lamp. And so my point is, when you read Revelation 21, there's one clear point above all others,

that God wants an eternal relationship with people. All this visual image is describing the intimacy, the beauty of this relationship that he created through giving his son to die and be resurrected to give us our path. So I just think if you read that and all of a sudden you're like, boy, I can't wait to see that street of gold. Well, you just missed the whole point.

You took one little imagery of something and just missed the dynamic that he was trying to convey that God can dwell in people and be closer than any other relationship that you've ever even dreamed of. Yep. What's the cool thing about this? I know we're out of time. I've got to say this one last thing. The really cool thing about what you just read was that that was the second to the last chapter of the Bible. and if you back up to the beginning of the Bible, there's two key verses. Exodus 25.8. This is what God said. And let them make me a sanctuary. And here's the purpose, that I may dwell in their midst. That was the building of the tabernacle.

They failed miserably at that. Then he institutes the temple, 1st King 611, and build me a temple, and I will dwell among the children of Israel. And I will not forsake my people, Israel. Fast forward to Malachi, it didn't work. Jesus comes, institutes the new kingdom. He tells the people right before he goes, he sees the temple, the apostles are like, wow, look at the stones in the temple. He said, yep, they're all coming down.

40 years later, they did come down. The temple burned. The whole thing is disruptive. And then the very end of the book of the Bible, it's a new temple that's being established, which is Christ as the cornerstone of that temple, and then us being. built around that cornerstone, and now we house God in our physical bodies. What we just got into right here to me is it is one of the most profound concepts that I could ever imagine that there's a God who created me and that has a desire to dwell with me.

That alone just shakes me to my core. And it's forever. Excellent job. Good stuff. All right, we're out of time. If you want to follow us over to overtime for our therapy session, I'm sure Jay's has some stories to share. BlazTV.com slash O'Shawn.

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