Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 665 | Willie’s Ex-Boss Spills the Beans on Him & Phil’s Naked Hunting Buddies

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Special guest Mac Owen dishes the details about what kind of employees the Robertson boys were as young men. Phil explains why there were occasionally naked men in his duck blind, and the guys listen to Mac’s amazing conversion story. Mac, one of the global directors of Celebrate Recovery, has a long history with the Robertson family and shares some hilarious tales of their early lives together. The guys discuss the qualities of eldership and how to grow from sin to being a leader.  In this episode: 1 Timothy 1, verses 3-7 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're missing Jace. We've sent him back into the wilds to hopefully find some more stories. You know, sometimes Jays, you just got to send him out to be Jays to come up with more fantastical tales. Because he goes in the areas where we experience what we call technical. difficulties. He does. Well, he's been doing this little treasure show, and so that puts him out in these. But you notice, whatever Jace is doing, like, it's going to be the worst thing that's

ever happened to any human being in the history of humanity. So it does come back with some delicious storylines, you know, for us to, you know, hear and experience. Yeah, it's usually a comedy of errors. Yeah, it is. which he describes as I could be wrong on the front part of his shirt but the back of the shirt is blank. I said, you need to put, but I doubt it. Why are we, why do we not have a t-shirt on Phil's merch page?

We need to get that t-shirt up there. That's right. I could be wrong. Yeah. But what does the back say, Phil? But probably not. But I doubt it. But I doubt it.

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to work on that. I'm going to work on getting that on our merch store. That's right. Yeah, philmerch.com is where we have actual merch. Like this unashamed mug, Sats got one there, is hats, T-shirts and stuff like that. We do sell a lot of Phil merch and unashamed gear, as well as some of Dad's book stuff too, uncannsell.

We've got a new book. We're working that's going to be out sometime later this year, the Jesus resume, which we're super excited about. it is a that's the best one it's a humdinger as they say it's a that's the best one we put forth well i feel like it's kind it's a combination of these of this kind of four books set that that we've been working on for what the last five years that yeah zach's daddy uh is is one that's putting has put it all together you know he's done the last two yeah where it's at least coherent to the audience but uh that's some great material in it built very very very good material.

Well, if you haven't, if you haven't read Dad's books, it's a great time to go back and go through the series because it kind of started out because the first one came out, I think, in 16, and it really kind of laid out just kind of a look at kind of what's going on in our culture and kind of the lives that the evil one has kind of shown, you know, in our culture and what's going on. but I feel like it's built into this whole spiritual clarity that Jesus really is the answer to all of us. And we deal with cultural and political issues in all the books, but you're not going to find a solution in any of that. No.

It's always going to come back to who Jesus is. And so we don't consider it to be the troubles of our nation. It's not the trouble. It's a spiritual fix. Right. It's a spiritual fix. You're not going to fix it with these people that are paying right now. Nope.

It started with the theft of America's soul, which kind of lays out the problems. Then went to Jesus politics, which was basically saying we're not going to solve this politically. Uncancel was the last one, which means that you're not going to silence us because we know what the truth is. And then this last one is Jesus' resume, which I just feel like really pulls it together in a powerful way. Tell us a little bit about the movies act. just kind of where that is and what's going on with that as well. Yeah, it's going real well. We're in what's called the post-editing process, post-editing process where they add

color to it and they put the sound in and all that. And then we're shopping it right now to distributors to see how we're going to bring it out. So, yeah, I mean, man, it turned out so beautiful. I can't wait for you all to see the whole thing. You know, Willie saw it. And he'll be on the next podcast, right? He will be. I'm excited.

Yeah. So he, he teared up. He said, I was back there. He said, I had to, he had to move to the back. And then he, he said, he cried the whole way through it. And then heard, you know, the road behind him, they were weeping all the way through the movie. I think it's just a story you hope, you know. So, yeah, you can go to blindmovie.

Dot com, the blindmovie.com and we'll have all the updates and stuff. You guys put in your email. So, yeah, it's going to really, really well. I can't wait for you all to see it, but almost, done with the trailer too. We're going to release that on the website. So if you want to see the trailer, go put your email in and you'll be one of the first people to get to see it. Well, I cried three times in Jesus Revolution. So I don't know, I don't know what my cry meter is going to be on the blind. Since it's our life story, I'm sure it's going to be

terrible. But I just, I feel like, you know, and I just read somewhere that Mel Gibson's doing a sequel to the passion to about the resurrection post and so I'm super excited about that so it just it feels like to me that this is the season now for really well done movies about the people of God and what God is doing so I mean just I feel like the timing of what's happening and of course we're a part of that too Zach and what God has led you and us to do so I just feel like Maybe this is, you know, this is part of the Great Roundup. Maybe I don't know. Who knows?

But it just feels like culturally we're given an alternative to what the evil one is offering out there. So just maybe, maybe that's it. The end of Romans 5, he says where sin increases, grace abounds all the more. Yeah. And that discomforts me. You know, you think about it. Even in culture, I think that's true. When you see the culture falling apart and we want to be doomsday prophets, but really, I mean,

in every moment in history, when things have gotten really bad, then God has offered through grace some kind of redemptive counter to whatever the evil is. So, yeah, I actually am excited about the future. Yeah, me too. You know? So, Jason is not here, but we have a very special guest that I'm super excited about being on our podcast today. And he's traveled a great way, a great distance from Colorado to be. here with us, our old friend Mac Owen. So we're going to take a break when we come back from that break. Sitting in Jason's pontification chair, there's Jason's word of the day. We'll be our old

friend Mac Owen, so we'll introduce him to Unashamed Nation when we get back from the break. All righty, welcome back to Unashamed. Got our old friend Mack Owen. Welcome, Mac, to Unashamed. Glad to be here today. So, Matt, we've mentioned your name so many times. It's funny because there's certain people that get brought up a lot on this podcast. And you're a one of them. And so I'll get random emails from time to time. And they're like, who is this Mac Owen you keep talking about? You know? And so I'm just like, you got to get him on. And so another one is Dane Jennings. Some of us said, are y'all ever going to have Dane Jennings on the podcast? Burley? Burley? That's exactly right. I said, well, I don't know. We're probably going to have

Mac on before we have Burley, but, you know, maybe one day. But anyway, we're glad to have you on. So we go back a long way with Mac and a long history, I guess. we should say, here in West Monroe. So Mac was, I mean, you grew up here. Right. When did you first come to West Monroe? I was 14 years old. My dad had got out of the military and wanted to go to a school of biblical studies.

Okay. So it was a seminary, basically. So he came here, and I was 14, and it's one of them things where I did not want to make that move. I did not want to be here. Right. But this is where I found Jesus, after a long road of living like a heathen. but I found Jesus here, so I'm so glad my dad made the move here.

Yeah, and you found your wife here. Found my wife here. We're still married, 46 years, you know. Mary's great. And so you were, I guess, I was trying to think of the best place to start telling our story because we have so many intertwined moments. But, you know, I was thinking years ago when we were, I was doing an interview with a a magazine about our church. And at this time, I think, I don't know if I was, I guess maybe I was

preaching then. And so they were doing the story about the church, but Celebrate Recovery had taken off, you know, and it was, and it was doing great. And I'll never forget, this reporter asked me the question. She said, is, do you feel like Celebrate Recovery has, is really opened up your church to make it, you know, what it is to be so open now to people. And I said, no, I think our church was open enough to be ready for a thing like celebrate recovery. Right. And I said, and she looked at me kind of funny. And I said, and the reason I think our church was open enough for something like celebrate recovery is because of a certain couple and particularly a man named Mac Owen that, you know, became so broken that he just, you know, opened himself up and said,

I have nowhere else to go, you know. And so it was interesting because, and then, of course, I think she wound up talking to you, too. But it was, he announced that publicly. He did. On a mic. He did. Yeah, I will say, it was pretty quiet in there. So, so tell that story because I feel like, you know, that your story that day,

really changed, helped begin to change, our culture as a church. I think Lisa and I were a second part of that. And our stories are so intertwined in that. But it really has helped us be who we are today as being a church. Our reputation is the church that will take anybody, which I love, because I like being that place. That's right. I like being that place too. So tell a little bit, Tell our audience a little bit about that because it really is amazing, you know, the story, kind of what got you there. Well, what's amazing to me is that as I look over the years that I'm continually impacted by the fact that God uses broken people to advance his kingdom.

How long from your initial confession, public confession to the church, how many years has that been from then to now? 35 years. You just got your children. Yeah, just February 22nd was 35 years. Yeah. Has that gone fast or what? Has for me.

Yeah. So actually for me it was one Sunday morning. I'd been awake for a week because I was using that methamphetamines. And so I was staying up all the time. And so I'd been awake for a week. I came in on a Sunday morning just to go to bed and get some rest. And our youngest daughter, Callie at the time, was about four years old, came into the bedroom and looked at me laying in.

the bed, where her and her mama are getting ready to go to church. And she said, how come daddy doesn't go to church with us anymore? How come daddy doesn't do anything with us? And, you know, I pretended to be asleep, but I heard every word she said that morning. And through her words, God really broke my heart. And so they went to church, and I just, man, I just felt like the world crashing in on me. So, Mary got home that afternoon, and I'd written up some stuff that I'd been doing. I said, here, this is what I've been doing. If you want to stay with me, I want to make this work. So she was unaware, probably, she knew something was going on, but she was not of the majority. Well, versed. You know, and she knows smoking dope and drinking and stuff like that. But, you know,

I mean, that was pretty much culture then, you know, but she didn't know about the math and all that stuff. And so she said, look, I want to make this work. And she said, well, you talk to the preacher, Ray Milton at the time. I said, I'll talk to Ray. And I said, I'll talk to Ray. And I said, I'll talk to Ray because interestingly enough, he had been coming to my cabinet shop for years and he'd get me to build stuff for him. And I found out later it was stuff he didn't even need. He was taking, sell it, you know? I mean, he was just trying to build a relationship. Because that's the kind of shepherd he was. Right. He was a relationship guy. Right. And he saw something in you a potential. Right. And he didn't know exactly what was going on. But I think he knew

instinctively something. Something. And he kind of did the same thing with dad because we weren't even at Weiss Ferry wrote at the time, but he started coming out here. Shortly after the public repentance speech that he gave, you know, he said something about to me, because, you know, I didn't know him. You know, I just would see him come around, you know, but I didn't know that he just started meeting and I didn't know his story until I heard it that night. Well, we hadn't even gotten back yet. Yeah, he told me, he said, you know, I need to sit in with y'all.

Y'all have Bible studies. I said, every week, they come and go. he said, well, I need to be in on that. Well, I thought, well, boy, you know, he'd be all right. Yeah. But after about a week or two, he said, hey, I said, I need to sit in with y'all. When did we happen to the Bible study? For one year, every Bible study.

He was your scribe. Owens was there. I told him as Kay, I said, now it's going to make it. But, you know, I wanted to go back to the night itself because it was a Sunday night. We still met. I mean, I remember it so clearly. You know, some things that happen at your church are such a watershed event.

You never forget them. And this is one of those nights for me. We had just started coming back to White's Ferry, Roe. We hadn't been back long. You know, we had been, dad and mom had started a little church out here. Yeah. Ray has sort of recruited us. We'd had, you know.

Ray, the old country preacher. Oh, country preacher. Kind of. So we started to come back to WFR again, best move we ever made. And we were coming to that same school your dad went to as well. Jace and I were going to school. And in fact, Mac, you wound up later once you got your life straightened out. I worked for you for a little while when I was a student.

Hey, by the way, all the boys did except for Jace. Really? Jason is the only one that didn't work there. Well, you're blessed by that. You dodged the bullet on that. Jefftha. He worked for me for a while, but I got him out sleeping out there. Well, he's supposed to be stacking wood.

There was three of them, and I said, now I got out there and said, what are you boys doing? They said, well, you know, there's three of us. We thought we'd just take turns working. I said, yeah, well, trust me. That's a whole other story. Trust me, you got the cream of the crop when you got the oldest one. I can tell you that right now. But so that night, when you came forward, of course, and I need to tell this part of it because your wife, Mary, her dad is one of the founders of our church.

There's an elder there Very respected I mean has a big footprint Into the You know Spiritual world and you know At a songbook company And a publishing company and all this stuff

So it was a big deal That his The family you were in You know as well as your own dad He passed on To be with the Lord Let's see about how many years Once you gave the speech

If it was about 10 maybe Yeah after I Well no it was about Actually about 15 Yeah, about 15. We got to serve as elders together. Yeah. And this has been probably 20 years.

He kept her good head about him being his daughter married to you. So that night, Matt, so you came forward. And so. Because Ray said, you know, you might want to come to church tonight because there's a church family that I know that will love you. I wasn't sure about that, by the way. But I trusted him in that moment. I said, okay, I'll come. And so I just hit the aisle that night, and I just went and I said, look, I'm a drug addict, I need help.

And I told them what I've been doing. And I totally expected the church to say, you know, we just don't need your kind around here. But that's not what they said. And that was the watershed moment for me when they said, you're our first drug addict. We don't know what to do with you. That's right. But we want you to keep coming back. And then I don't know if you remember Barbara Key, she was here.

And she came up to me and she goes, I think you need to go to AA. And I said, is that like a car club? She goes, no, that's AAA. You need double A Alcoholics Anonymous. So the church at that time didn't know what to do of me, but they sent me to A.A. Now, irony of ironies, A.A. sent me back to the church. Yeah. We're not sure what to do with you either.

They didn't know what to do with me either. So what I love about it is you knew enough about yourself. And because you went to, you went to, and I'm telling your story, but I've heard it so much. You went to rehab, but you did so well, they let you out early. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at first they said, you know, only one, we're in a group one day. They said, only one out of 20 of you will make it.

There was 20 of us in there. That's encouraging. Yeah, I know, right? I said, wow, boy. This is the one speech from. So I looked around the room and I just said, I hate to say this, but that would be me. You know, I'm going to be the one that makes it out of this because here's why. You know, I still have this at home.

One Sunday morning, Ray got up there and said, we're going to write a lovogram to Mack Owens. He said, I want you to write. Look, I got 700 letters and cards when I was in there in that hospital from this church family. I would say that would help. Yeah. Oh, hey, you know, nobody else was getting cards. So I would pass mine around to everybody in group and they'd read my cards. You know.

You were encouraging them, so you're encouraging. I got a question for you, Max. So the night you went down front, because I've heard this story too a lot. But I wasn't on the scene when it happened. So I always heard kind of like these legends, you know, for guys my age to hear about this. But am I right in saying that was the first time in the church that they came down and surrounded you and Mary as you went down front? Yeah, the whole church that night came down front. And like I said, when I really thought they would tell me not to come back, they came down there, surrounded us, cried with us, and made it very clear that not only could we come back, but they wanted us to come back.

Which was, which, I mean, you got to keep in mind. And we grew up in the Church of Christ, which we just didn't do that. I mean, I'd never been in a church, you know, the first time when I came back to White Street Road, because my parents met there and all of our stories collided a lot. But in the 90s, when I came and moved back to West Monroe, and the first time I came to church, I mean, it was like overwhelming to see people walk the aisle. They would go confess whatever they were dealing with in front of the church. And then, you know, tens, 20, 30, 50, 100 people would get up, lay hands on them and surround them. I'd never seen that in a church of Christ before. Well, and that's, I mean, that must be.

That's what happened. And the Sunday that I got back from going to rehab, because they did let me out after 19 days. It was supposed to be 30. They said, we can't do anything for you anymore because you got such a support from this church family. But the next Sunday, when I got back, somebody went forward. And in our church culture, basically, somebody would go down forward and they would sit down there alone. And we would just look at the back of their head, you know. But that Sunday, I said, you know, I'm going down there to be with that person.

And Mary looked over at me, she goes, do you know them? I said, no, I don't know, but I don't want anybody going down there sitting alone. So Mac and Mary started a... You were fulfilling the text that the Apostle Paul told a group at Rome. You know, he said, you know, in view of God's mercy, you know, in view of God's mercy, live a life, you know, of godliness, whatever. Amen. So what happened is they, their first response is that,

And then what Matt described them doing out of their own merciful heart, started tradition that still goes on to this day, that at White Street Road, we never respond alone. And so we still say that to this day. We say that. And the other thing we say is welcome home because it's a place you can come home. And that's what Mike did. And Lisa and I experienced much the same thing.

And what's interesting, so Mack, after the AA sending back to us, decided he started doing research because obviously you had a heart of warming, to help other people overcome. So you started overcomers. Right. So tell a little bit about that. Yeah. And how long you did that.

And it was very successful in what, it was really our first, it was our, in our community, probably in our, in our region, it was the first really outside of a, A, our first overcoming type group through a church. It was our outreach to the community. We had great outreach to the world, but not really to the community, especially the people that were really hurting. And so I did some research. research. I found a group called Overcomers Outreach, came back to the elders, and Mary and I were

going to make our big presentation. You know, we want to invite drug addicts and alcoholics into the church. And, you know, we go into the elders meeting, totally expecting, again, them to say, no, we don't need to do that. But I, so I laid out the whole vision. They said, that sounds pretty good. I think you guys need to start. And I was scared to death. I said, no, surely they're not going to let us do this. So I said, well, you know, they'll probably be cussing there. They said, Looked around the room, some of them said, you know, we used to to help them clean that language. And I said, well, that might even be smoking because back then you could smoke too anywhere. You know, I said, they might be smoking.

They said, well, clean up after yourself. And I'm like, they ain't going to let us out of this. You know, so I left there, Mary and I, and they were like, the first thing that they wanted to know or the last thing actually was, when are you going to start? And they gave us a red brick building out in the parking lot. Yep. It was all our own. We got to meet there, and we met for 14 years in that building. and became the largest local outreach in our church.

And it was so cool because people that I believe Jesus would have hung out with, the very, the worst of the worst were coming to know Jesus through that ministry. Yeah. And to this day, it's still going. They're still going. Yeah. And I was in there the other night and there was like 500 plus people in there. And it started out with just a couple of us.

It's grown a little bit, hadn't it, Mack? Yeah, it has grown just a little bit. Well, that was an interesting story. So we transitioned yet again because I think it was Johnny, your brother-in-law, that had heard about this new ministry called Celebrate Recovery that had started out at Saddleback in California. And so, you know, you guys were successful in what you were doing. And I guess like everything else, you kind of get into a successful and comfortable ministry. But then somebody comes in and challenges with a new idea. they did. And the cool thing about it was I'd always thought that this could help more people

than just drug addicts drugaholics because really it was based on the beatitudes of Jesus. And so Johnny comes home with this ministry, my brother-in-law, and gives me a starter kit, complete with cassette tapes. And I'm like, whoever came up with these things, man, other words that mention in the world, cassette tapes. But anyway, I said, Johnny, thank you so much. And I put that starter kit right where it needed to go on the top shelf where I would never have to look at it. again. Or reach it. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It stayed there for one year, actually. And finally, I had a good sponsor, mentor in Tommy Powell, who would challenge me. And he said, you know, you really ought to check that out because your thinking is contempt prior to investigation.

I'm like, well, man, let me think about that for a little bit, you know. But what he was saying was, if you think you know everything, you're never going to learn anything. That's right. And so, So we then went out to Saddleback Church where it started. And it's funny because you told me, you said, your mindset was when you went out there, he said, well, it's California, we'll go to the beach. We'll have a good time. I mean, it's a good setting. Maybe we'll catch a couple of sessions, you know.

So that was your mindset again. That was it. You still had some contempt until you went to the first session and then you were heard the first testimony, what it was. Right. Yeah. And that's what it was. You know, when I heard, first of all, they said, take our material and print off as

much as you want. I'm like, hold it. Is this mega church here telling me that I don't have to buy into this? And that's what they were doing. And I thought that was pretty cool that they said, here's a ministry, go use it. And so we came back to West Monroe. Because actually, you're right. I said, you know, we'll do a little bit of this conference and then we'll check out Southern California because it was August. I mean, that's a great time to be away from Louisiana. Exactly. You know, and so we got there and we stayed till nine o'clock that night the first day. Got there, early so I could leave early. And then the next day I got there early again, because I was still going to leave early stay until 10 o'clock that night. And I told Mary, we're stopping what we're doing,

a ministry that was working. And we're going to do this. So when you guys came home, you were so excited on fire. And so Mike and I just started preaching together at WFR. And we sat down together and prayed and dreamed. And we preached a series of recovery, the Acrosic. And we kicked off on New Year's Eve. And 2004. Yeah. And what now is about, is 20 years. And it's really interesting because it's the other night, you got your 35-year chip, which is exciting.

And we're fourth generation leadership now. Right. And our celebrate recovery. And by the way, Rucker, who's one half of that leadership team now, has been on our podcast. And people loved it because he just told his story. And his story is woven into Duck Commander, you know, because he went to work for us when he found Christ. And so it was really, really amazing. And he's, he and Derek are now products of Celebrity Recovery and leading it.

Right. And so you and I talked about that this morning before we came on air, that that's the neat thing about it. And what a wonderful thing for you, Mack, to see something that God led you to start. And now that you're not even here participating in it daily anymore, but you're watching the fruit of that, now produce its own. leadership, which is exactly what it should be doing. And what you said earlier, you said the proofs in the pudding, you know, it's very, you know, it feels really good to see that you can turn something over and not have to control it.

Yes. You know, that's so many times what happens with ministries, with businesses, with, you know, what organizations, you know, you have a leader. It's like trying to beat repentance into someone where you just sort of give them time. Right. Give them some time. They'll come around. It's just a slow crossover from my life of seeing how lived it, you know.

It just takes a life. Well, that's what you taught me. You taught me when I got there. And the first time some women came up and gave me a bear hug after I was converted, I got outside. And I said, I think this bunch is a little too lovy-dovey-dove. I mean, I'm bad now than some sisters who were trying to encourage me. Too touchy feeling, huh? I kind of flinched because I wasn't ready for...

Because you didn't exactly come from a lovy-dovey background. That is correct. So we got a brand new movie out called Nefarious. Really interesting, really different and unique. And our old friend Steve Dees from The Blaze is the man who brought it to us. And we have him here to tell us about it. Steve, tell us about Nefarious. Thank you, Al.

Really appreciate it. Nefarious is a movie you want to see when it comes out in theaters this weekend. And essentially what we have done is a sequel to the screw tape letters and applied it to modern America with an outstanding performance by Sean Patrick Flannery of Boondock Saints fame. Really an Academy Award level performance. No joke. He is incredible as our demon nefarious. And he walks a secular atheist through the true origin of his worldview. And it'll wreck him by the end of the movie to know that he's not actually the smartest guy in the room.

But he's been snookered by what we call in our show, The Spirit of the Age. Get tickets. Find out where a theater near you is showing it now at nefarioustickets.com. That's nefarioustickets.com. And I heard Phil saw the movie and absolutely loved it. And you know, he'd never steer you wrong. Thanks, Steve. We really encourage you guys to get out and see this film, not just because Steve is one of our blaze guys, but also this is a faith film. It's a Christian film. It's very powerful. It tells a powerful story. The film came out April 14th. So we encourage you to get out and see it. You can get tickets at who is nefarious.com.

That's who is nefarious.com. We really encourage you. Get out and check out this film. That's when I began to get it when I said, so Kay said, they love you. I said, do you hear that old woman? She said, she loved me. I said, that's the first time I ever seen her. I said, you reckon?

And she said, yes, she loves you. Yeah. And I thought, it's a strange place. Yeah, Phil had contempt prior to investigation on that. That's exactly right. I love it. But you know it's funny about it. I mean, you think about that moment, because I've thought about this a lot.

I've talked about a lot of the implications of confessing your sin. And really, it's kind of the cornerstone of CR. I mean, it's like every time there's an introduction, it's a confession of sin. And I think about what you did, Mac, when you guys came down front on that Sunday night, it really did instigate a 30-year run, a revival at the church that, I mean, was transformative for so many people. I mean, it was crazy. And, Al, your story is part of that, too. I mean, and when I came in in the 90s, I mean, I got to sit under your eldership.

I mean, you pastored me. Yeah. And so did Phil. So did Al. I mean, I sat under your, y'all's leadership and learned how to do ministry. and so now I'm in North Carolina pastoring a church and doing what y'all taught me to do, and we just started to celebrate recovery. So just the implications just, I mean, it's the kingdom rolls on.

What's cool is as the growth of both of us, we were asked to become elders at the same time. Yeah, y'all went in together. We were like, I don't know about, I was like, I don't know about this, you know, this stuff. Actually, you had a line. We're sitting with all these elders. elders. They're wanting us to be elders. And we had talked before we went in there. Yeah. And we said, we don't need no title to do it. We're doing. So you told Bill Smith and the rest of them, you said, hey, we don't need no title. Here's what he said. He said, that's good,

because it's not a title. It's a description. All right. Yeah. I was like, okay, we don't have no rebuttal on that one. Since it is biblical, since they were appointed and it was. I'm looking at That's been what year, how old were we even? Man, I was like 37. Yeah. So you would have been about 47. Yeah. So that's right before I was about 50 years old.

So I was going to back on it. I'm like, man. I was going to talk about that because that's interesting. That Zach brought that up because it's in, as we sit here, we're kind of all separated by a decade in terms of age. And we all played that role with each other. So you mentioned about coming to, to. this, you know, newness.

And then dad was there to sort of mentor you in those early times of, as you came out, knowing what your role was going to be. You and Mary were there for Lisa and I when Lisa came to repentance. Because I was already heavily involved in ministry, but, you know, I didn't have my soulmate on board yet. And so we went through that struggle. And so Lisa made that same walk that you did in our church, and which was that second transformation, I think, for us.

because we did that inside, too. You know, and so that same fishbow, and Lisa took such a risk, you know, that day with all the same things. We went from, we went from rock bottom, Owens and I both. And then we came when they said something about the eldership, here's a trustworthy saying, if anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, elder, he desires a noble task. The overseer must be, here's what's outlined, must be above reproach.

that's that's one thing the husband of but one wife makes sense to me temperate self-control respectable hospitable able to teach not given to much wine not violent

but gentle not quarrelsome not a lover of money must manage his own family well see these children obey him with proper respect and if anyone does not know how to run his own family how can he take care of God's church

he must not become conceiving he must have a good reputation with outsiders so that they they must hold firm to the deep truths of the faith and with a clear conscience well if you read the script for elders I've had many people tell me and said yeah we don't have elders in our church and I know why no but we don't have anybody like that with these accolades but if you look at it you say that's come a long way from drugs, alcohol, and you're drunk, then these are your qualities. You're like, boy, what a change. Well, here's the beauty of that. The beauty of it is when Paul said... I know you sleep a lot better.

Oh, no doubt. And Paul said in Colossians 1, 13 and 14, he rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Sonny Loves. Jesus did that. Yep. And then he gave us redemption, the forgiveness of all our sins. And then it goes on to say that you're now

without blemish, free from accusation, holy in my sight. I was called a lot of things in my past life. Holy wasn't one of them. I don't know about you. Yeah, I know about you. Yeah, I fell in the outside. Right. And then he says, and were presented perfect to the father.

So when somebody says, oh, we don't have any men that meet that standard. I'm like, many people have told me that. Yeah. But how does God view them? You know, I mean, the apostle Paul was viewed as perfect when he would say, I'm the sinner among sinners. I'm the chief of sinners. You know, so sometimes we...

I didn't go around murdering people. Right. And we hold the standards so high sometimes that nobody can attain it. That's my point. So my point is every one of our cases, we didn't shoot the wounded. We instead, we nurtured and helped God heal and then developed into leadership that became what those texts showed. Right. And that's the difference.

if you don't develop that, if you don't develop that mindset, we're all sinners. But we're sinners who then God develops into leadership. This was written so people would say I could never be that because they don't have faith in God. If you've already shot the wounded and moved them out, then all your left was a bunch of people who were just hiding what they're really doing and then recognizes that I can't be a leader because of my secret life going on. So you're never going to have true, you know, authenticity. And so you have a church full of people who are hiding everything and nobody can step up and lead. Right. And we all know sitting at this table today that we have not arrived.

No. Paul said in Philippians, he said in Philippians one that he is confident of this, that he who began a good work will carry it on a completion. Well, Jesus isn't back. That's when the completion date is. So all three of us know, four of us, know that we have work to do on ourselves still. We haven't arrived. That's right. Exactly. And so then to complete the cycle, Zach tells a story of when he was struggling in his own life to get there of me talking to him one time on the beach, guiding him to camp, later Willie and others working with him to get him to repentance, you know, when he and Jeff were not living the way they were supposed to. And then God now developing him into leadership. And so that's what God does generation to generation to generation. And we're still actively involved in doing that.

And so our podcast audience listening, that's exactly what we're trying to inspire other people to do. And that's the active engagement. It's really interesting because, Mack, you haven't lived here in how long? 11 years. You've been gone 11 years. Man. And yet every conversation I have with Mac and Mary picks up from the last time we talked. That's right.

I mean, we have that sort of relationship, and it will always be that way because we're forged in iron. You know, we're forged in spiritual iron, and it's because of our experiences together, but it's also based on our mission together. And so, you know, we can, we'll be apart more than likely until we get to heaven, but we'll share experiences. I can't wait. I mean, we're, we're making eternal memories, you know. And it's so cool because, you know, even though we are apart, your daughter, Anna,

yeah, comes down to Kay and Fields and said, look, Owens, he needs some more jelly. And so they round up some jelly. there and I get my may haul jelly, a little slow jelly, a little, you know, Blackberry jelly. And she sends me a care package. But, you know, that's what family's about. You know, even though we're apart from each other, we still are a part of each other. Yeah, I want to say this.

Because Max, I know we're going to run out of time. And I want to make sure I get this in before we do. Max's story, by the way, there's a whole other segment of it. You want to talk about a movie. I told Matt, we need to do a movie about your life story because there's a whole another part of this. We want to have time to get into it. today. But Mac is now, I guess, is your title, Global Directory of Celebrity? What is your title at

CR? Yeah, Global Director of Celebrity Recovery. People ask me what that means. I say, I think that means I was messed up more than everybody else. Of global. Of global importance. But CR, for everybody on this podcast right now, CR has been a huge part of all of our lives because we, so many people we love, and do life with have gone through the program. You guys are in, what, 35,000 churches? Correct. Is that right? Yeah.

I mean, this is an incredible ministry. And if people don't know CR, that's celebrate recovery. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, celebrate recovery. And you told me something on a phone call recently that just kind of shocked me. I hope you don't, I'm going to share it anyways. And if you don't mind, if you get mad at me, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say it anyways, that your budget for the entire ministry is.

very, very low. I've never heard. I mean, for what you guys are offering, it's incredible what, how, how little money you operate on. And, and with that, 85% of y'all's budget was cut. Right. I'm going to say this. And I don't even know if you want me to.

I'm going to. But we, I think we need to support this ministry. And you can do that. I looked it up. You go to celebrate recovery.com. And there's a, a tab on there called support CR. Because you guys are operating right now off of, you. vapors, am I right?

Yeah, shoestring. I mean, a lot of people that were making small salaries have now gone to nothing. So we're barely getting by as far as management. Yeah. So, I mean, I want to get behind this. I've told Mack, you know, I want to help, help him raise money for this ministry. I mean, it's, it's, so if you want to help out, a lot of times you guys ask, you know, how you want to give money to the podcast to help with my equipment.

You know, don't worry about that. Like, give to this ministry. We believe in this as a family. We can speak to the character of Mack and Mary. You know, Mack was a guy who was a, you were a mentor for me and Mary for Jill. And just we do ministry the way we do it. I mean, you guys are like in that circle of people that influenced us in a profound way. So if you're listening and you're like, how can I help?

How can I get involved? CelebrateRecovery.com. Go to the support CR page and just donate because they're going to put that money to good use. So I wanted to talk about, because it's more than just, I mean, we've obviously folks along the spiritual side of our partnership, because that's the most important to all of us. But there's also a deep side on hunting, on all this land that we're sitting on, you know, right here in the lair. And because that goes way back as well. So if you go back to some of our audience goes way back to the old Duckman video days. It's when Max Harris, it's when Max

was kind of reddish white. It went quite all the way white. Because you were, what, 29 when you started turning white? Actually, we were sitting in a duck blind out on second slew. And it was raining and water was hitting me right across the legs. And I was like, who built this duck blind? And Phil said, I did. You think he can do better?

I said, oh, well, I can do better. So we won't on a tear. I don't know how many duck blinds we built, but we built. They're still over there. we forgot to mention that Mac is a very talented carpenter Oh, is he? We left that out of your story somehow In the first part of that,

that Mac's a builder, built almost all of our houses, those of us that had houses here. But so Mac became an integral part of our outfit here because he actually built some really great blinds, some of which we still wanted. Yeah, I told him we ought to come back this year, you know, get in a few days.

Trying to give him to build some more blinds day? Well, just to get away from, you know, it is. It's a lot of work working with people. And that whole story about us buying that land over there was, that's a story we can't get into, I'm sure, today. But that's a pretty good story. It's a great story. It really is. Really, because, and we talked about this format, because when we first started hunting over here, you know, we couldn't, we didn't, we weren't able to, you know, it was way before the show and all that stuff.

And so we were just hunting on first lease land. And we bought, Owens and I bought little blocks, a block here, block there, block started with 48. And now it's up to like 1,600 acres. It's like a... Remember we talked our wives into that and they was like, you're going to do what? Yeah. But, you know, the first time a pipeline came across there and we sold that timber

to that casket company, they said, can y'all buy some more land somewhere? Because Mack had the misfortune of trying to talk a Howard into buying something. That's right. That's not easy to do, right? So, yeah, so you guys, but Mac was able to help you, provide you a partner. Oh, yeah. Or you wouldn't have been able to do any of that early stuff to buy the first hunting land. When he finally left, he said, well, I'm leaving, you know.

We figured out, say, well, how much you got in this thing? We've shucking money back and forth, you know. It's pretty, it paid off. Yeah. So the early part of the building of the brand. We've baptized people, by the way, on that property in the middle of winter. There's a lot of Bible studies that went on. We've had people stripped naked.

I said, get stripped down of where, like, you come out of your mother's womb, and we'll walk out there, movie decors out of the way. We'll baptize you, and you'll be good to go. They're like, right now, I said, right now. And then we'll come back in the blind, and we'll eat some hot buttered biscuits. That's right. So they got back in, we ate biscuits, you know. Those guys called me up later.

They said, that's the greatest thing that's ever happened. But most people don't believe it. Unfortunately, Mike, you know, when you left, when you moved away and weren't hunting down here anymore, the comfortable blinds they quit hunting comfortable blinds they started hunting scaffolds no roof they quit eating food hot food any food so i've about quit hunting because it's not comfortable i mean when you left the comfort left the comfort left with you so i don't know what happened so i guess i'm just going to boycott hunting until you come back there you go you know in mac hunting we had hot biscuits every day i mean mac would cook biscuits over the

fire. I mean, it was delicious. Looking back, which paved the way to your fatty liver disease. Well, that's true. Fatty liver. So you can thank me. Thanks a lot, Matt. And I'm having to take the fatty liver supplements

because of Mac. But anyway, I was just saying in the early days the brand was sort of built on the cast of characters. And that was kind of, Stevenson was kind of our early videographer. And Mac was part of that. Well, and you know, one thing I'll say about

Stevenson, I'll never forget when Jace was just like grumbling back, everybody. We can't shoot ducks. We're always filming stuff. Well, he didn't know that Stevenson had the recorder on. He's listening to everything. And Stevens says, Jace, you have the vision of a stick of margarine. Which I was Day Still Lives on today.

So you mentioned that me and Willie and Jep all worked for everybody but Jays. So we know I was a model employee and we just, and we talked about Jeff. We talked about Japs sleeping. What about Willie? What kind of worker was he? Because I'm curious. Willie was the kind of, look, I'll just tell one story on him. He would continue, back in those days, I dipped Copenhagen.

Yeah. I'm Copenhagen free now, but whatever. I don't care if you dip or not, whatever. So anyway, he would get my Copenhagen cans. He'd put live things in them, like lizards and bull. And I'd open my can. Stuff would fly out. Well, one day, we killed a copperhead snake.

And he was working with me outside. and it was a corner of a building. I was on this corner. He was on the other. And I saw that snake and I picked that snake up. It was dead. But I said, Willie, come over here. And he comes around that corner.

About that time I just took that thing, and wrapped it around his neck about three times. You ain't never seen somebody trying to get out of a snake so bad in all your life. Once it's wrapped around your neck, it's not a lot you could do. That's good. Didn't Willie, wasn't there a post? hole. Oh, the post hole story is at that same place.

We was working outside. And I told him, all you have to do, I'm going to dig the holes with the tractor. You just got to clean them out. Well, Willie's always had a flare for drama. So he's with the postal digger, he's just not cleaning them out. He's dancing and doing all kinds of stuff. And he's throwing the post hole diggers down in the hole. And one time he throws them down and he follows through with his head and it hit a root.

And that thing, that post hole handle hit it. right in the eye, and he just got knocked him smooth out. Well, my brother and him had been bickering all morning. My brother's standing over him. I'm like, David has done God enough and just beat the fire out of him. I got off that truck. I said, what did you do to him? He said, he did it to himself. He didn't do it. And so I told him, in my wisdom, I said, do you need to go to the hospital? And he wouldn't answer me. I said, well, go over and lay on that lumber. Until you tell me you need to go to the hospital, we're not going. So you would have made a good robinson. I know. I thought of some of those sorts.

So anyway, he stayed there all day. I took him home that night. We're on our way home. All he's got on was those little bike gym shorts, you know, that these were, I mean, a little short thing. I thought, no, he's got a t-shirt tied around his head. He's hanging out the window. All of a sudden he said, stop the truck. I'm like, stop the truck! And we pulled in, and they were having, it was at a little Baptist church, and they was having a Friday evening hamburger supper. And we get within 30 feet of him, he gets out of the truck, looks at him, and just starts, blah! just throwing up. And I was like, get in the truck, because they're all coming towards us now.

I'm like, get in the truck. And we drove off later on Kay called me. Miss Kay called me that night. She goes, well, I took Willie to the hospital. He's got quite a concussion. I said, well, if he would have just told me he needed to go to the hospital, I would have took him. So Willie was your dramatic Robertson worker. Yeah, he was my dramatic.

Just for full disclosure, I had to, Willie just walked in. So off camera side. Be careful, Santa Claus, because I got this mic later. So be careful. So Willie's going to be on the next podcast. So we'll get his response later. But I had to get a couple of those stories. Then we had Mac on the podcast.

But, man, what a pleasure. We have overtime. And so I wanted to talk a little bit in the overtime about your sermon yesterday because I knew we'd run out of time. But it was so good. And so I want to talk a little bit about that in overtime if you'll stay over with us. But it's been a pleasure having you on the Unashamed podcast, and you're welcome anytime. Well, thank you.

Love you. It's family. Family. There you go. So we'll see you in the overtime. BlazTV.com slash Unashamed if you want to follow us over. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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