Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 673 | Phil’s Demonic Experiences & How Satan Thrives in Our Culture | Guest: Steve Deace

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Phil has seen firsthand the evidence of evil in the world. The guys and special guest Steve Deace, producer of the film “Nefarious,” discuss the movie and its impact on believers and non-believers alike. Steve illuminates the ways that Satan works in our culture now and back in biblical times. Plus, all the mysterious circumstances and coincidences that nearly kept the film from being made at all!  https://philmerch.com – Get your “Unashamed” mugs, shirts, hats & hoodies! "The Blind" hits theaters this fall. Get updates, trailers, behind-the-scenes moments, and special opportunities here: https://theblindmovie.com — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right. Welcome back to Unashame. I'm still down here at the Southern Lair. So, Jace, I, um, so I went to, I did some, I don't go to the movies much anymore. Did you ever go? When's the last time you've been to the actual theater? It's been years, not months. Oh, thanks. Yeah. That one's the last time you went to a, like a movie theater actually went in. Years, years, years. Well, Phil, no, Phil, let me help you out there.

Decades. That's the word you look at decades. I'm years, you're decades. Well, you went to see, I don't know how long. I'd have to look it up when the movie was, but I remember going to the movie. It was you and mom. It was Mac and Mary. We had Mac Owen on the podcast recently. And me and Lisa, we went to Rustin.

I don't know why I went to Rustin. maybe wasn't playing the Monroe, but we saw Apocalypse, which was Mel Gibson's movie, which was fantastic, by the way. But the Indian tribe of South America. Yeah, about the Mayans. Yeah. We went and saw that at the movie.

And you were with me, so I remember you being there, but that may have been the last time you were at a movie theater. I think so. It was whenever that movie was made. So that was it. We could probably trace it back to that because that actually bends us them. So we went to see Nefarious, which was Steve Dase's new movie that's out. And I've been one to see it.

And Zach had sent us a link to watch it because, you know, he's in the inside. Steve is a Blaze host. And so we were going to watch it on the computer. But I got too busy and I missed the link. You know, those things they expire. You can only watch them. So you actually saw it at on Dan's computer. computer.

So you watched it. So I saw it at the theater. And, man, it was, it was something. I mean, I would say it was, chilling was, would be one of the words I would describe it. It was also very, it was a great way to sort of get a look at the world from the perspective of evil, which I had not thought about. So it was, it was, it was very well done from that perspective. but it was something.

I mean, it was not for the feign of heart. It was about the theater we were in was one of the smaller ones, but it was about half full. But you could hear a pin drop in there. I've sat down with a lot of people, just me personally, a whole lot. I'd say in thousands. And I've seen more than one that the Dementiac was clearly, in front of me.

I've talked to people who acted like that that dude on DeFarious. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Yep. It's a pretty, I mean, it'll make the hair

stand up on the back of your neck. I tell you that. Yeah, well, your butler, it calls your butler, Dan, to call me and he asked me questions about it, which I'm not sure why he didn't ask you, but maybe he did.

He just wanted to give me a little briefing on what it was. I thought, hmm. No, I'm talking about Dan. Yeah. Dan called me and he said he had a couple questions. And, of course, one of them was about how or why did I think on the pyramids that they seem to have etched airplanes and things with rudders.

Yeah, you see that clear. So anyway, I was like, that. question I answered easily, which was, I don't know. Yeah. It is interesting. You dug deep for that one, James. But the second. I saw it and I was amazed, but I was like, I have no idea.

But the second question was about, I guess he had watched that movie, which I haven't seen the movie. That was back when my email was hacked. So I guess I never got the email, oh, or, you know. So, but I did look it up on the movie database because I just wanted to see what it was rated as far as, you know, by people that had watched it. What I found interesting, it's a lot like the shows we do. It was either a nine or ten or a one. Yeah.

And so, like, and the ones, because I just read the comments, I didn't read them. I just scrolled through them. So if it was a one, they were basically, they evidently Glenn Beck was on the movie. Yeah, at the end of the movie. They either didn't like him or they thought it was a right-wing conspiracy Christianity show that, you know, so they were just, it wouldn't have mattered if it would have been good or not. They just saw who was in it and said, one. But all the other comments that they said, you know, it's really.

really good acting, really intense. And a lot of the comments I saw as they were wondering why it was rated R, because they said there was nothing really that would make it R. So I thought that was interesting. But so Dan asked me, you know, how old, you know, or did I think angels live? that was one part of the question uh two you know how in the spirit of the demon you know when did the demon possession change or or maybe that's a wrong uh for you know some translations but demonized or uh unclean spirit or you know when you look at those words it's just a word

for being demonized i guess so it it's like there's a lot written about them They're brought up demons, demoniac, the devil. You know, it's about almost 100 times mentioned just in the Gospels alone. No, I agree. But I do think they were limited in some capacity once Jesus died was buried and raised and the Holy Spirit was poured out. I think something happened. Now, I don't think that they necessarily left, but I think they were limited in that if you

surrender to the Lord and receive God's Spirit, you know, because then you get in the later books, you know, it says resist the devil and he will flee from it. Receiving God's Spirit is the common, I mean, is the verse you need to remember when it come to the demoniac. You have the spirit of God, which in you, which that keeps the evil spirits out of you. Well, right. And my humble opinion. That's one other, that's help coming from heaven.

I mean, think about it, you're not going to get out of a demon. You're not going to get love, joy. You're not going to get peace, patience, kindness, goodness. It's not, you're going to, that doesn't come from evil. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. That's good fruit. you see that. So basically it's just when you see the fruit of the spirit, you can tell if it's

that or the fruit of the devil himself. You can spot it easily. There's some horrific things going on worldwide and there always has been. And so evil is as real as it can be. I mean, just look around for crying out loud. Yeah. Well, I think about that verse in 2 Timothy too. in verse, what is it, 24, where it says, in the Lord's servant must not quarrel. Instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him, he must gently instruct in the hope that God will grant them repentance, leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

so that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil who has taken them captive to do his will. No doubt about it. So I think that's the strongest verse you'll find in the letters about if you allow, you know, your heart to go down an evil path, then you're setting yourself up for this kind of captivity. Yep. And maybe.

So I think that's where we're at now. I mean, I'm interested to hear what you think, Al. It's worthy of note that Jesus, there are so many in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. We'll see it, but it's coming up on us in a little bit. We're studying Luke. So you see it there too. So I would just say, you know, you read that Epheson 6, put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes for our strong.

Struggle is not against flesh and blood. Now, this is critically important. You say it's these people that we run up on, you have to have your eyes wide open when you're talking to them. Because what we're struggling with, we're against the rulers. So it seems to be organized. Against the authorities, it seems to be more organized, and against the powers of this dark world.

against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. That's where our struggle is. Well, that's nothing to fool with and take lightly at all. I mean, he's there. I mean, this DeFarious, they gave you a good picture. And I'll say again, I've talked to a lot of people in the last 50 years, and I've seen some. I said, whew, I said, man.

I mean, it's, it was demoniac. It was a demoniac, demoniac, demon. We know from the scriptures, we certainly see a lot of these substructure of angelic forces, right? We know there's archangel, so there's almost a military-like structure in the angelic forces, and we see that. You know, we know from Daniel, there's fighting that goes on. there's these forces against each other. So you know that there's some sort of structure in the same way on the evil side. So which the movie kind of got into that in terms of titles and structure.

So there's all that that has, we know has gone on from a scriptural point of view. So spiritual forces, you know, are lined up and they're there. And it's clear from scripture. And so you see that. And so, you know, when you see that battle that goes. goes on, it rages. And so, you know, my theory has always been that when Jesus was here and there were all these questions about why he was here, that that's why you saw it kind of bubble up even more so probably, you know, to the surface. And you saw that even more. So I think that's why

there's so much going on. I've heard human beings in a joking matter say, but the devil made me do it. The devil made me do it. Well, I take that very seriously. Right. Oh, me too. Very seriously. It's definitely not something to joke around. We know that even from Jude, right?

We want to take this very seriously. Satan and his forces is no joke. That much I have learned in 50 years talking to people about how to get Satan out from the clutches of Satan. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think there's a fine line. Because you don't, you know, I think back in this day, which it never, you know, of all the demon possession stories that you read in the Gospels, it never tells really about what happened before their life. You just come up on the scene and there's a guy in a, you know, chain to a graveyard stone. And also, you don't read much about God stepping in or Jesus stepping in and blowing them all the bits.

killing them. Yeah. No. Right. It's not like he, you know, he threw the, the, Jesus, Jesus, you know, showed he had the power to cast him out and I don't know whether. Loved them and, you know, redeemed. I mean, well, you remember Mary Magdalene, I mean, she, it just, it doesn't tell her story,

but it mentions that he had driven out seven unclean spirits from her at some point in her, in her, in her life. I mean, which she was one of his closest followers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All right.

So we're going to take a break. And we got a real treat here today because we got the man, Steve, days, who has, who is behind nefarious. And we've been talking about it a lot because we were talking about the movie.

And so he is going to be right here to tell us about this movie and some spiritual warfare, which is what we've been talking about. So let's take a break. We come out on the other side. Steve's going to join us to talk about this project and a lot of other stuff. So let's take a break. All right.

So we're back with Steve Days. Steve is a fellow Blaze host, which is great. He is co-authored and authored many books. He's a fellow believer and an unashamed proclaimer of the gospel. Steve, welcome to the Unashamed podcast. We should have had you on before now, but belatedly welcome to Unashamed podcast. It's an honor, guys. And I don't know if I ever told you this, but back when I was writing for USA Today, when they would still employ people like me, now we are unfathomable to even consider.

But when Phil had the whole thing where I think it was GQ, where you just recited the birds and the bees and everybody lost their bowels over that, right? And they tried to cancel y'all. I actually wrote the column for USA Today at that point in time defending you guys. And it was the second most red column of that year for USA Today. So it's a pleasure to be with you. Oh, my goodness. So, Steve, so I was, when I was researching a little bit about your stuff you had done, obviously because we all know about the movie, which is what we're going to talk about.

But so I sent that article to Dad and had Dan because, you know, Dad doesn't do computers or phones. And so I had, I had Dan print it for him. And so when we came on air this morning, Dad said, and he didn't have his earphones on, so he couldn't hear me. He said, you know, for some reason, Al sent me an art. article that Peter Ducey at Fox News wrote about me a few years ago. And I didn't even know about it. Of course, I don't know where Peter Ducey cat. Isn't he the weather man?

I don't know. I don't know. I saw him on Fox News one time. I got so tickle. Hey, don't get me tangled up in there's all this high tech world. I'm standing back behind. So, Steve, so you were, so you were, uh, bestaking for Peter Duce at this. for it. So I thought that was pretty funny. You get a kick out of it. Yeah. Thank you.

I don't know, Peter would find it funny, but I do. Yes. Things are clearing up the further we go this morning. Yeah. You're getting some clarity, Phil. That's good. Welcome to the computer world. I'm not used to it yet, my man. So Steve, we do owe you a belated 10-year thank you for that defense of us in 2013, because I did read that article, and it was very good from 2013. So we appreciate that. So before you came on, we were talking, in our first segment that I just went and saw the movie here. I'm in Gulf Shores. And so I went and saw the movie here a couple nights ago in the theater.

And it's amazing. Oh, thank you. Oh, so good. So well done. So well acted. And there's so many things we want to ask. Of course, we were talking about it in relationship to, you know, spiritual warfare and just, you know, so much to unwrap and discuss.

But I just wanted you to tell our audience a little bit about, sort of, you know, what you're thinking was making the film. I mean, obviously, you've written a couple of books that sort of were the basis of it, right? So tell us a little bit about just the process because, or what landed it here and how it came to be. And then I want to break down a little bit about some of the stuff that's in it. Well, I don't want to be a cliche. And we, we made our movie in a way to break every Christian movie cliche that's ever been done. Okay. But it is kind of a cliche, but a good one. You know, it's a total got thing. My first trip to Washington, D.C., about eight years ago, was to do publicity for my first

wide-release book. And I just got inspired to write a sequel to the screw tape letters because, you know, where else is it better to get inspired to write about a demonic takedown of America than your first trip to Washington, D.C.? Right? I mean, you're right there at the belly of the beast. And I wrote this book called A Nefarious Plot about a High Lord from Hell named Lord Nefarious, who was tasked by Satan over a century ago with the takedown and destruction

of the United States. And in order to prove to his master that his plan has been successful, he lays it all out in detail. Names, names, names, connects dots, real people, real historical movements, figures, how he did it. And he puts it all in writing and in our faces because the fact that we won't believe it, we won't turn away from it is, we're oblivious to it. That's how he'll prove to his master the devil, that his plan is irrevocable. And now his, his his master may move on to his next stage of dominion with America out of the way. And, you know, my show was really young at that point in time. I was in syndication with a network that doesn't even exist anymore.

And so we only sold a, you know, four, five, six thousand copies. It was a modest, you know, success at that point in time. And I just thought, you know, it was a clever idea maybe I had and I was going to move on with my life and see where my career took me. And about six months later, I get a phone call out of the blue from someone I didn't know at the time. a name everybody knows. Glenn Beck calls me out of the blue.

And he says, hey, a mutual friend of ours gave me your book, man, and it blew my mind. And I'd love to have you on talking about it. And I said, well, Glenn, well, all due respect, I don't want 10 million people to know about this book I wrote, so I'm going to pass. I was on the very next day for an entire hour. And driving around Burbank, California that morning, was a guy named Chris Jones, who's part of a producer team at what's called Believe Entertainment. And they had been part of the producer team at Purefix. His other co-producers, guys, you guys know, Carrie Solomon and Chuck Consum wrote the script for God's Not Dead, which was a massive success. And they kind of wanted to

break out on their own and direct to their own features now. They were getting set to start pre-production on a movie called Unplanned, which turned out to be a phenomenal film based on Abby Johnson's memoir of her time at Planned Parenthood. And they were wondering what their next movie was going to be and they'd always wanted to get into spiritual warfare, Frank Peretti kind of stuff. But how do you do that in a way that doesn't glorify evil? At the same time, that's a tough thread to, you know, to needle. Or tough needle to thread, I think, maybe the other way around. And so, you know, they heard me talking about this book for an hour. They go get the book on Kindle, go back to their office and, you know, they're just blown away.

And I get an email that night. My wife said a women's retreat. Our kids were still young. So I'm doing dad duty. I put him to bed. I go down to the man cave to play mad and to unwind. And I get this email alert. Hey, my phone says, hey, my name's Carrie. We want to buy the movie rights to your book. I was convinced it was a Nigerian prince scam and deleted the email and moved on. And I, you know, a little excuse for $400 to get them out of a situation. Yes. Yes. Yes. And the little voice in the back of your head, your Holy Spirit puts there every now and then it kind of says, you might want to rethink that decision, you know. And so I went and got to the email, looked them up, found out they were real people. And, you know, over the next couple of months, we negotiated and had a movie deal. We had to wait for unplanned and that process to go through. And we were going to start right away and then COVID hit.

And then literally the week that Gavin Newsom reopened to California in June of 2020, I flew out to Burbank and we spent three days out there storyboarding the movie. much of that, I'd say 85%, 90 of what we storyboarded, is the story that you see in the film. Carrie and Chuck then from there wrote an incredible script. I mean, it's just a fantastic script. And then along the way, though, guys, we have had, I can't even tell you literally everything you can imagine. We had the IOTI crew union in a right to work state, tried to hit us with a frivolous labor lawsuit, and why do I call it frivolous? Because they hit us with multiple counts. Last month, we actually beat them in NLRB court on all counts but one. Okay. And it was

almost like the judge said, hey, I don't want the mob to burn down my brownstone tonight. So I'm going to find, I'm going to find for the trans woman on set, make sure she gets her $3,500 and back pay. But you can think of how frivolous your claim has to be if you lose that badly to a Biden National Labor Relations Board court. Okay. I mean, we had Carrie and Chuck both went into the hospital during Delta variant with COVID pneumonia. Men of their age, men of any age, it was a flip of the coin man if you were coming out of the hospital

for COVID during that period of time. So we weren't even sure they were going to live. We've nearly had been shut down multiple times. I mean, I just, there was an instance when Carrie and Chuck and their priest buddy who's a Vatican-trained exorcist, they were staying at an Airbnb in Oklahoma City while we were filming there.

And one morning they get up and they hear an animal causing a commotion in the home. And they think for sure it's like the left-out pizza boxes and stuff because they're no kind of bachelor-patching it. And instead, this squirrel went into this room where they had set up an altar for their priest-buddy to hold mass every day before they went to shoot the movie. And this squirrel, that's the only room in the home he went into, he went into the room where they had the mass altar, completely desecrated it, urinated all over it, defecated all over it, turned everything over and then ran out of the house. I mean, this thing, and from, I mean, I was in the ER a week ago with a mysterious mercer bacteria infection of unknown cause and origin that they literally had to carve out of my armpit of all things. I mean, this has been a crazy journey to get here.

And I think when you guys, I know you've seen the film, you know why. Because it's not, I think what we've done, what we've gotten wrong is that the devil loves to operate in the shadows. I think if you look at our culture right now, he's not operating the shadows at all, man. I mean, he's out, he's loud and proud. I think he likes to be in charge of his own branding, though. That's different. It doesn't want the real veil of who he is and the camouflage taken off for everybody to see. And I think that's what he's opposed to.

And our film, I think, does a very good job of that. And you got to thank Sean Patrick Flannery for really a magnum opus performance in that title role. Well, and you know, it's interesting, Steve. because I hadn't thought about this until you just described that because I knew, because I kind of been following. So I knew about some of the issues. I didn't know about everything. But it's interesting because not only are you talking about going up against spiritual forces in dark places, but also just the nature of the movie.

You're also going up against just regular forces of evil that are right in plain sight. You're right? I mean, you know, political forces. I mean, all the other things that are also kind of, you know, pulling for the dark side. I thought it was interesting because you mentioned about darkness and evil. It's not so much Satan being in the dark, but people are in the dark about who's actually pulling the levers, right? Which I thought the film really deals with in a powerful way. So I want to ask you, because so I had some different takes on the film just, and I came right home and jotted these down because I knew we're going to have you on the podcast.

So a few things that I felt like were really interesting, and I want to hear your take on them just from my perspective. So one of the things was the film really impacted me because it was a perspective from evil's point of view that I had never thought about. I mean, I thought that was so brilliantly done. In other words, you know, we get to actually hear, because we don't think about it, the idea about what does evil think about? And I thought the film really dove into that well because by hearing from this demon in the dialogue back and forth, you know, in these two characters that are that are having this conversation. And it was so intimate is what made it so powerful to me watching the film. You know, hearing him use the words when he's speaking of God, this demon, he calls God the

enemy, you know, and he calls Jesus the carpenter. And so he never uses their names that we would call him, you know, as believers. And so I just found that fascinating from evil's perspective. And so I don't know, does that, and I haven't read your book, which now I can't wait to get it and read it. I think I actually have it somewhere in my house. I've got to find it to read it. So talk a little bit about that, about just the idea of looking at things from evil's perspective and how that kind of plays into not only the film, but also into your books. When I wrote the book, basically at that stage of my own faith walk, and I mean, I got saved

when I was 30 years old in 2003. And so I wrote the book about a little bit more than a decade after that. And so everything I'd been through from discipleship and spiritual training to renew my mind, everything from Augustine to Josh McDowell, it's kind of a culmination of those influences. And I thought, because I wanted unbelievers to pick it up and understand it, I decided to, you know, take, I'm kind of a go big or go home, don't ask for permission, beg for forgiveness kind of guy. Okay. And so I decided to borrow a page out of Milton's Paradise Loss and add some, creative licensed of subtext of things that that might help non-believers understand the fullness of the biblical text.

And I tried to do it subtly in a way that, you know, didn't interpose my own viewpoints on it. And to do that was to explain why do they do things if they know they're going to lose, right? If they know they're going to lose, then what is their motivation? And that all comes out in the book. And that's, and they, and Carrie and Chuck borrowed heavily from that in the film. Those themes are addressed heavily.

in the film right out of the book, that sort of theorem. And the idea that they can't, they can't bring themselves to pronounce something of holiness from their own lips. It, it, it, it, um, it, um, it, um, it indicts them. It, um, it incriminates them. It shames them. Uh, and so that's where these monikers like the carpenter, uh, in the book gods referred to as you know who or the enemy, uh, or, or, or, you know, your daddy, things of that nature, a form of demonic, um, a form of in philosophy, we call this reductionism. Yeah. The idea of taking a meta point or an eternal truth or an absolute truth and reducing it down

so it loses its power, loses its potency, amidst moral relativism. And so Carrie and Chuck did a brilliant job borrowing from those themes that are in my book as well. And one of the things that really drove all of us, and there's a wide range of theological opinion. I mean, Carrie and Chuck got saved, you know, as Kare, as Kian, Catholics in the 70s. They're kind of your charismatic Catholics. I call them Pentecatholics. All right. They're very interesting concoction of theological tribes. I'm the guy that puts the

fun and fundamentalism, man. I mean, I'm, you know, what church do you belong to, Steve? My answer is Soliscriptora. That's my church. That's where I go. All right. And so, and I think we all played off each other with this one desire that we recognize that this culture for a generation has heard the softer side of Sears. It's heard the soft cell. It's heard from all of our buddy priests. It's heard from all of our Hawaiian shirt wearing suburban pastors. Everybody with a pleaded khakis, it's heard from them all. It's heard from all the buddies. And it didn't make a dent. It made no dent in what's happening around us at all. Instead, the darkness only grows. And so we all are of one mind on this. It is time for some old time religion now. All right. That, you know,

the Bible says that the law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. And so there's this pendulum for us as believers where this thing can't swing out of balance between grace and truth. And frankly, I think the number one mistake the modern American evangelical church has made is it has put grace and truth at loggerheads. Like you can only show the love and grace of God at the expense of his truth. You can't bring both of those things to bear. And so we're way out of balance now. And it's time to bring it back more in balance to truth. And so since this culture loves darkness, guys, last year horror was the number one genre released by Hollywood. 31 horror films were released last year. Counting hours, 35 horror films are slated to be released

this year. This is where Gen Z goes. This is where they are. And we wanted to go to Nineveh. And so we made a film that looks and sounds like what they are attracted to, but it is a full apologetic of our worldview, but from a figure that, frankly, they're much more accustomed to listening to than your Hawaiian shirt, buddy suburban pleaded khaki pastor who is not, Elon Musk is more of a threat to hell than he is, okay, with what he's doing at Twitter, even though he's a transhumanist. And so, you know, and I've heard people say,

well, you know, we wanted to hear the name of Jesus proclaimed. You get to hear a high Lord of Hell, mild spoiler, you get to hear a high Lord of Hell look into a camera and tell you, in a thousand movie theaters nationwide, quote, the cross was our greatest mistake. Now, I know we're not used to these things called men in our culture anymore, but brother, I don't know about you. Give me the lamentations of my enemies any freaking day of the week.

I want to hear that. That's what I want to hear. To your point, Steve. So it was interesting you said that because I was going to ask you about this. So when we came into the theater, it was 20 minutes of, previews. And it was, I think I counted them, it was seven

horror movies. I know. That were, that were, uh, previewed before the film. And in all forms of, and it's so funny, my wife kept leaning over and said, no, no, no, no. Every time I was like, no, no, no.

And so, you know, but it was the genre. You're right. And it was, and I looked around and everybody in the theater where it was about my age. And so none of us were going to go see any of those other movies. But you're right. It was the idea that it was speaking into that culture. And I thought another thing that was brilliant about the dialogue in the movie,

it was very provocative. And I thought very effective way to argue some of the issues that we're very passionate about it. And I thought the life issue was one of the things. And of course, that's big, of course, for us. especially for my wife and I, but I thought the way that that came out in the discussion, in particular to the character of the attorney,

I thought was very, very moving and powerful. I mean, and we were both moved, you know, in the moment of watching it. And so that was just another really brilliant way I thought of really dealing with some things,

you know, again, that made sense in the dialogue that maybe people hadn't thought about. So maybe it was a way to, convince some people and change some hearts of minds. That's, and that's why we did it. I mean, we, we are looking at where this, where Western civilization is right now.

And that's the U.S. included. And, and guys, we are, we are up against the very boundary to the mouth of madness. Like our toes are right on the flipping line right now. And, and we're about to belly flop into Abidon right now. We're dipping our toe in the water. Maybe we're ankle deep in the water thinking, maybe it's not that bad after all. And it's very clear going to this culture that is getting affirmation everywhere.

Maybe in another era, you know, maybe in another era where dads were more old school and distant and it was hard to understand the love of God in my life, that it was like, like, well, you see that in Jesus Revolution. In another era, you know, maybe people needed to hear more of a grace message. But in this era, everybody feels affirmed for everything. They're getting affirmation everywhere. So to try to go to them as a lead pitch and say, come confess you're a sinner while I affirm you, while I'm nice to you, nicer than God to you, why do I think I need that?

Instead, what they need to be shown is the true origin of what they think are smart, progressive choices when they're really pagan, regressive, and destructive choices. They need to be shown with the true origin of that. Where these ideas really come from and our antagonist, I'm sorry, our protagonist, played by Jordan Belfi, he walks in there, smart, atheist, smug. He's got all the answers. He knows it all. And by the end of this movie, he's completely wrecked because he is forced to come to grips with the fact. There are forces at work in this world that he otherwise cannot explain.

And now he has to go search for what are the answers an antidote to those forces. Well, I just thought, you know, I didn't watch the movie, so I did the worst thing you can do. I went to the database for movies because before I watch a movie, I want to see, you know, where people rate the movie. And so I noticed on the movie it was a 7.0, which was above where I would watch a movie. I was surprised. I thought it would be lowered just because I knew where it came from. And so I read the comments, I browsed through them, you know, over 100. And what I quickly found out was that it was either a 10, you know, 9 or 10, or a 1.

And the 1, yeah. So not bad. So kind of like my show, in other words. Yeah. Well, look, we have something in common because every project that I've been a part of for the last 25 years, it's either a 9 or 10 or a 1. So, I mean, you can look up Duck Dynasty. There's a lot of tens and there's a lot of ones. And so which tells you, you know, people have their mind made up once they put you in this little category.

But what I was surprised about what I was going to say, what stood out to me, because there's so many, you know, people, that's why this database, you know, I go there. What I noticed is it kind of like Jesus, it made people mad, glad, or sad, which in the production, world is a good thing. And the people that were mad were only mad because it was these horror fans that you discussed because they thought, oh, this is going to be some dark, you know, worldly whatever fits my needs. And then I was hearing a dissertation on the origin of evil against good. Well, you know, they didn't want anything to do with that, which I found really funny that one of them who gave it a one, said the most horrifying thing was Glenn Beck showed up. And which I laughed, I laughed.

But it just shows you that they already made up their mind about, you know, how they put people who followed Jesus into a box. But they also said it was well done. It was clever. The acting was good. It was so incredible that they were admitting all the things that make a great movie. But it was just where it came from. They didn't want to give it a chance.

Well, it brought forth information for me. When Jesus is talking to a group of individuals, he said, you're doing the things your own father does. I'll start, this is John 8, verse 40. As it is, you're determined to kill me. This bunch, and they did. A man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do something.

things. You're doing the things your father does. We're not illegitimate children they protested. The only father we have is God himself. Jesus talking. Jesus said to him, if God were your father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I'm here. I've not come on my own, but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you're unable to hear what I say. Now, Listen to Jesus' analysis. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. Just look at our culture. He was a murderer from the beginning, Canaan Abel.

He was a murder from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there's no truth in. And when he lies, he speaks his native language. He is a liar and the father of life. eyes, Satan. Yet because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me. Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? Jesus asked him, where'd I go wrong? They're just sitting there looking at him.

If I'm telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God, here's what God says. The reason you do not hear is you don't belong to God. The point is Satan in that text in John 8. is the father of murder and the father of lies and just back up off our culture and look and you say and that's what they're all doing lying and murder it's a sad state of affairs and you're right the time has come where we better wake up to all this we're trying to reach out by the way there's a constant stream of them that we never saw before,

but in the last decade, and it's getting more and more and more. There are a constant stream of individuals showing up. Once a week, we've got a little building next to the main church building. They've been watching this podcast, and they say, you know, we saw it. We saw it. So in this movie you made is going to help a lot. There's a constant stream of them at all times.

Every week we see them. All the states in the United States, they're from all over. Other parts of the world out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. You know what I mean? You wouldn't think you'd see people driving and flying that far just to hear about Jesus. We baptize them, preach the gospel to them, and the ones who want to, we baptize them. And the next week there'll be a whole other bunch there. They're there.

And it's getting bigger and bigger. bigger. So I'm feeling slowly that there's a, there's a turn, there's a turn that's begun here. So we shall see how big a turn it is, but I guarantee you one thing, that movie you just made helps the cause. That's very kind, brother. And that's, we made the movie for two groups of people. First and foremost, we made it for Ninevites. Repentance is potentially still on the table. okay um and and one way that you find out you know there's there's sheep and wolves my favorite quotes from augustin there are many sheep without but many wolves within what's happened in the last era with this seeker friendlyism uh in the church is there are wolves all throughout these are churches now

um everyone's a sheep everyone's a sheep well if everyone's a sheep then nobody is there what's the difference between the two sheep don't know and need a shepherd wolves don't want to know. They don't want to know. They know and have rejected it. They are, they're malicious creatures. And we are, we have ravenous wolves in many churches. And because, you know, it would separate the crowd. We'd have fewer people here. And so when you issue a clarion call, like when you were just describing, Phil, the people that come, Jesus said, no one can come to me except the father who sent me, sends them to me. And then I will raise them up on the last day. They're responding to the call. His sheep hear his voice.

They're responding to it. But right now, we're drowning it out. No doubt about it. We're drowning it out with niceties. We're nicer than God. We're drowning it out with programs instead of preaching. Think about it. We won't allow.

We won't allow the very name, Jesus Christ, not allowed in our school systems. Just think about it. The damage that did. for the last 50 years. And we're surprised by our culture. I mean, we're doing it to ourselves. We don't think that there's a great evil power right next door. We just don't think like that, and we need to change that.

Correct. And for, I mean, for a generation, born-again believers have gone and taught and administrated in those schools and abided by that. No other generation of Christians in any country, culture. I mean, that's why they had persecutions. That's why they were martyrs. They refused to comply with such edicts. But we've done this on an institutional level in the West because of the level of financial comfort and cultural comfort we have.

And not wanting to risk any of that. And the cost of that confrontation, we're not willing to pay it. And now we're surrounded. And so that's the second group of people that we made this movie for. There's a moment early in the film when, where Nefarious looks at James and says, are you ready for round two? and James says, I did know this was a fight. And Neferius says, that's why you're losing. And that is Ames Square right at our brethren, right there.

You know, we talk about the woke, but are you awake? Are you aware of what's going on? Do you believe that there is the long crowd of, the long crowd of witnesses that Hebrews talks about, the martyrs that came before us, do you believe that that line exists because they said nothing about such things in their day? because they let it go. They thought it was not their place to say anything. No, they're there with their eternal reward because they did.

That's the thing. Right now, all the religious conviction, all the willingness to suffer for what you believe is all on the side of what I call the spirit of the age. In mass, the church doesn't have any of that kind of courage or toughness at all and still thinks that America is just looking for a purpose-driven life. No, I think you're right. And Steve is so amazing because, when the attorney defends, well, you know, we're doing quite well.

And he lays out some kind of woke ways that the culture is doing better. I just loved it because he's telling this evil spirit about how things are not as bad as it appears, right? And so I just thought that really brought into play kind of the mindset. Again, this is from an atheist point of view in the movie. And so it really just played so well to the mindset that was, there, which was very powerful. So it was so well done, brother. And I just, I can't encourage people, especially our audience more, to go see the film. One is, I think we're in an era that we're making a difference in this. And look, this is new for conservatives, new for believers, to be

able to have this genre being done so well. And so I commend you, Steve, and the team and all the people involved because we're finally getting a great product out there to tell our stories. And so I praise God for that. And we're sort of in that era. We've got a movie coming out as well later this year. And again, it's kind of a faith of film Buster because it's gritty and it's real. And it's kind of like this. And so I'm excited to see that God now is opening doors for us to do that.

And so you guys are helping pave the way for that. So I want to encourage people to go see the film, not only to be supported, but it's going to be effective and you're going to have some ways to be able to continue the argument, which is powerful. Steve, tell folks where they can find your books and information and things like that because it made me want to go back and read everything you've written just watching the film. So tell folks where they can find your books and things like that.

Just a little point. A lot of people, I've been surprised, are coming out of Canada. They're driving from Canada or flying to come all the way down to hear a 35 or 40 minute little speech about Jesus Christ. That's what's going on, and it's getting bigger and bigger. So I hope it couldn't have come at a better time this movie you just made. I mean, it got my attention, so I was all in, man. So keep it up, keep up the good work.

Bring another one up after this one. I appreciate it, brother. That means a lot coming from you guys. We all have a lot of respect for you and appreciate that. Props, for sure. Thank you. and you got people want to follow my show they can subscribe to the podcast all my books are up on amazon the one that this movie is based on is called a nefarious plot and if enough people

see this movie we will do the sequel uh which is based off the sequel book a nefarious carol uh and um you can check at uh nefarious tickets dot com or who is nefarious dot com uh to see about the film is it showing in your area around the country uh we did good enough to make it of the top 10 is an independent film. That's very difficult to do. But now the fight is on here in week two to hold on to our screens. The devil has dropped literally 13 movies on us in this release window in the last two months. So we had to go up against five movies last week that were brand new, five more movies this week,

and then another three next week to stay alive in the theater. So we need those of you that have seen the film to be ambassadors for the movie. The word of mouth has been great, but we now need you guys to go and bring your church groups there were maybe leery of the R rating that we didn't deserve and everything else that they've done to shut our movie down. We need now you guys to have that word of mouth and take those people to church that were maybe leery before, but with your endorsement, we'll give it a chance, and they'll be very pleased with how this movie confronts the current spirit of the age. And not to mention, guys, it's also just a really darn good movie. That's true.

I agree 100%. It got my attention. I'm glad y'all did it. The acting is fantastic. It really well done, Steve. We appreciate you being on the podcast. Don't forget, guys, starting the week of May 7th, we're not going to be releasing anymore on Sundays.

It's going to be Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. I know a lot of you spend times with families on Sundays, and so we're going to have all weekday releases, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So look for that beginning the week of May 7. Also, if you want to follow us over to our overtime segment, BlazeTV.com slash Unashamed. We'll see you on the other side.

Thank you, Steve. days keep doing what you're doing. God bless you, brother. All right. Thank you. God bless you guys as well. All right. Take it up. Keep it up. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazedtv.com slash unashamed.