Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 681 | Phil’s Old Pal Terry Bradshaw Laughed at Poor Baby Al & How Jase Hooked Missy

Episode Date: May 12, 2023

Phil recalls a cringeworthy moment with Terry Bradshaw back when they played football at Louisiana Tech. Jase has got skills when it comes to getting a woman to marry him. The guys remember when Phil���s acting scared half the church out of the pews! The guys focus on the story in Luke when Jesus was lost and found at the temple in Jerusalem and how his relationship with the temple evolved over his life and ministry. Plus, was wild and eccentric John the Baptist the best marketing campaign for Jesus?  In this episode: Luke 2, verses 38-52; Matthew 4, verses 13-23 https://philmerch.com – Shop now for your “Unashamed” mugs, shirts, hats & hoodies! "The Blind" hits theaters on 9/28/23. Get sneak peeks, updates & insider exclusives: https://theblindmovie.com — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back, Maddie. I like that we got the melody of Maddie is back. So Maddie is our producer here, and she had to get her wisdom teeth cut out, which I don't know how wise that is right before you're getting married, because you need all the wisdom that you can get. Does the wisdom go out with the teeth, is my question. Why do they call them that? Well, they come with age. They come with age. Is that what it is? Yep, that's what I think.

But then they cut them out. So what is it? I'm trying to figure out a metaphor for that, but I don't know. I've got them, but I've never had them cut out. Well, I've got like two fangs. Like, I never came all the way in, so there's like a couple of fangs up there. Somebody dubbed it wisdom, and you fell for it. That has nothing to do with wisdom.

So I don't. Age should bring about wisdom, but. which is once again a marketing ploy. Oh, boy. Back on the marketing. Al, life, that's what life is. I mean, yesterday, look at me, I'm not a marketing person. Actually, you come up with some pretty good marketing ideas.

I think you are a marketing person. You just don't realize it. It's because I see through the shallowness of today's marketing. I mean, yesterday, Zach and I got in, you would think he's the marketing guru. I brought up the idea of giving somebody a bumper sticker as a reward. He's like, I mean, I think there's a little show called The Chosen. They give them bumper stickers. And guess what?

I see them all over the place. The little gospel diagram with the arrow coming down. What about the little fish that people put on the back? Seeing the fish. Well, why is that working? because it works. People spend a lot of time in cars. So that led to me getting to make my wife's day today

because she said, well, you never tell me about the podcast yesterday. I said, oh, you will love it. You need to listen to that episode. She said, why? I said, because I just destroyed Zach on a marketing conversation. That happened very often. She said, what happened? I said, you were involved.

And she went, uh-oh, I said, no, it's good. I was like, I have the outside. idea about a bumper sticker to all the fans of the blind you could make you know I was blind but now I see or you know something can you see this the blind or you could make a you could make it fun and so she she was like I think that's a good idea I was like well thank you babe I said but where I went in what caused the disruption where we thought we were losing connection with Zach which let me translate that I said

When he said What do you know about marketing? I said, have you seen my wife? That ended that discussion. Yeah, she did love that. That was the win for you, man. But you kind of,

you've kind of changed the story a little bit, but that's okay. I didn't. Oh, you think? You think, Jason, would change things around Go back and listen to the podcast. That was the cliff notes.

I don't remember being negative against it. I like the idea. It was kind of funny because you've actually got better with your pitch now because before it was, I think your line was, I've seen the trailer. And that was the bumper sticker. And I just, I was thinking we need a little bit more or something that helps with the branding of the blind. But see, now you've got the, I see it, the blind. That's good. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I wasn't going to. lay out a four-point plan to you. I just thought the concept was so good that you'd say, oh, great idea. You see yourself more as a high view marketing person. You're not down in the weeds doing all the writing ad copy. Do you want me to go ahead and write it out and send it to all your employees? Jason is an idea, man, Zach. It's a concept.

That concept has never failed since the invention. of the cars. People just, what do you, you know, I'm in traffic all the time. Well, you know, it happened to dad. That's true. It happened to dad. I remember years ago when we were just doing videos and way before there was TV and all that. And the word was, dad, that you had a, here's the way they put it because everybody gets

things a little bit wrong. You had a PhD in marketing from tech. and that you and your cleverness and marketing skills had come up with this whole beard and camo and the whole duck, you know, persona. And it was all just a massive marketing ploy on your part because you were a marketing genius. So that was the word that was going around on you back, you know, 20 plus years ago. But actually, he got this idea from where we were. we're at. You know, spend a couple. My college education only brought me a meeting with the dean of men who said clean all that crap out in front of your house because you're, you live on

scholar drive and you don't seem to be the most scholarly person we've educated at Louisiana Tech here. Now I think it's, it's a winner over there because you said I made the plaque, you know, I ended up on the wall. You are on the Louisiana Tech. Alumni Hall of Fame, or they call it the Wall of Fame. So they got over the, get all you, you know, straighten up, you, you live on scholar drive. You're a student at Louisiana Tech. You need to be, the dean of men said, I'm trying to come up with a word, Mr. Robertson. He said, I said, not scholarly enough.

He said, that's it. He said, you need to show the people that you're a scholarly individual. I said, man, that's all my equipment. But out there, I said, I got my decoys, you know, an old truck was sitting there, you know, mud truck, you know, a four-wheel drive old truck there, had nets in the yard, do a little net patch from time of time, fixing up decoys, painting them up a little bit. So they was all in my yard, and I thought I was looking at it at some good outdoor equipment, but they looked at it as not very scholarly.

So when you remember things. Now they say, okay, we took off a little, we get it. now. So I was up, I was four years old when we left there and moved to Junction City, which was when Jace was born right after that. And you know how when you're young, you just have flashes of memory. And it's usually something traumatic that sticks into your brain. But for me, I have flashes. I can still see a deer hanging both inside and out. If it wasn't deer season, we'd be hanging up inside our little apartment there. There was a big, there was a little cross beam in this little duplex we lived in.

And there was a rope on there and there'd be an old deer hanging there. I'd set that tub. Number three wash tub underneath. Drain the blood and the guts down in there. I still remember, Dad. Oh, yeah. And that just seem real scholarly, I'll admit. But it's smart if you're hungry.

Because deer, I mean, how can you beat that? One of the memories I have, I don't think I've ever told this on the podcast, was I was, I was four and Bradshaw was over at the house and y'all were working on one of your trucks trying to get it started or something. Y'all were under the hood. I remember this. And so we were right next to the road. You're talking about the Terry Bradshaw and the football world.

A famous person, famous football player. Because he and dad were teammates and I guess friends. And so I was throwing rocks at cars. And you gave me a warning. you told me to stop and I threw one more. And so then you gave me a good weapon right there in the front yard. And I can still remember the day. And what I remembered about it was that Bradshaw was laughing while you were giving me a weapon, which is to, I told Terry this when I first met him.

I said, you know, I never liked you as I never liked you. I went with the cowboy. I went with a stalback in the cowboy. I said, I wonder how you'd have a cowboy's fan. That was it. It was really because I remembered him laughing. and when I got my butt tore up and never got over it. So when it came in the early 70s when I became football aware,

it was the Cowboys of the Steelers. You'd think I would go with a guy I knew and you played football with, nope. You know why that is it? Laughed at my calamity. Subconsciously, because when I think of Terry Bradshaw, I immediately hear him laugh on a set somewhere because he laughs a lot. A lot.

Now, if I had some kind of trauma. Just imagine you were getting your butt tore up and you hear him. that laugh. It triggers it. Every time he's interviewed, he's going to laugh or, you know, he's on, so, yeah, I get it now. He's a good dude, and as it turned out, he pursued the football and came out very well. And for all the ones that thought that somehow another that staying in the woods a lot was an act. Well, the truth's pretty well out there now, you know, it was more than an act. Well, that's what I was going to say. I don't think you ever viewed it as a marketing ploy.

Well, that's what I don't say, though. Now, look, we're in Luke 3. Have we gotten to Luke 3 yet? Not quite, Jason. Well, we're fixed to get to... Still got another story in Luke 2 to get to it. Okay, that's true. Jesus at the Temple.

But I just as a teaser, because our show never ends, that was a profound statement. We're always to be continued. Have you noticed that? Always. This is like almost a spiritual soap opera. It is. It never ends. That's what I don't like about Hollywood movies.

That's why I was turned off. The first time I saw The End. I thought, what a bummer. That's it. Yeah. Well, wouldn't you, that's why the shows you like, they come back for another shit. You know, you're like, oh, the journey will continue. You're like, oh, when they put the end, I'm like, the end?

I don't want to think about the end. So, we're to be continued. But I wanted to say this. I think people who are reading the Bible from starting in the New Testament, they, when you get to John the Baptist, all of a sudden it's like a record scratch moment because you're like, this was the marketing campaign? This was God's plan to have the guy who's in charge of market. What was John the Baptist's role?

to point people to Jesus. Prepare the way. Yeah. Well, this is like he lived in the woods. So that's where I was going with this. Your marketing campaign really mirrored what happened here. John the Baptist was working on his character in the wilderness. Seriously.

Yeah. And then when he got in public, he didn't do anything in a public in a public way that was called normal. And so when you look at our world today, it's the exact opposite. People, how they come across in public, means everything. Plus his reaction, when the people started gathering up, his opening line was, you brood of vipers. Most people, if you're going to point people to Jesus and their sins are going to be

removed, and he can raise them from the dead. Most people would say, and what was John saying? Well, he just said, you brood of vipers? Who warns you? That's where I was going with this. Can you imagine the meeting with John the Baddus as follows? Now, here's what I'm going with, you know, because he's the marketing campaign for Jesus. I'm telling you.

He said, I think we should start off with you brood of vipers. Yeah. He did everything the exact opposite of what the culture, you know, they come up with this phrase, counterculture. Well, John the Baptist invented that. I'm telling you. you just wouldn't have thought but you can play this game you can play this game and i'm telling you churches this would the game would be would you rather have a group of men and leadership

at your church who looked together who had money who well-dressed professional or would you rather have a group of leaders who looked like john the Baptist, but we're high character. And I think that's the difference. Yeah. That was the message that came out. No, and there's no doubt as the, as culture evolved into what it's become, good or bad, that that same mindset came right along with the church.

Then we had like the leaders of a church were like a boardroom. And so, you know, you had your president, your vice president, your secretary, your trust. That's what I'm saying. It just doesn't. But how many, I mean, look, I'm, I get, you know, we were talking about being offended or unoffended earlier. Maybe that was during commercials. But what offends me is I've seen guys, because I listen to a lot of sermons, you know, online, whatever. I've seen guys preaching sermons on John the Baptist.

And they, their outfit is, you know, they have the skinny jeans, the boots, the space boots and the skinny. and the skinny jeans and the hat hat off to the side, you know. And I'm like, of course, you see that a lot. And I noticed that just going from a lot of different churches and speaking. And I'm like, what is that? What is that? What are we doing that? Why are we having a way of what we look?

I mean, it's not a reflection on character whatsoever, but it just kind of bothers me that I'm like, Well, Jesus' marketing campaign was a guy in the wilderness wearing camel skin. That's never been a thing. Y'all might remember that the church asked me to play John the Baptist in a series of events. And I'll tell you, I came from the back going toward the front, looking to my right and my left, saying what John the Baptist said. No, I was there. It was scary. People cried.

I was horrified. I mean, because you did it with such passion and all. It made me nervous. So, Dad, it memorized this passage that we'll actually get into on the next podcast. And that's what you came in with. And they had you dressed in a camel hair-ish outfit. You were barefooted.

And you had a big staff. Remember that, Jay's? He had a big stick. And you just, like, nobody warned anybody. the opening act was you just walking down the middle aisle yelling this text. You did it on Saturday and a Sunday morning. I remember it well. You know, I just looked around, you know, you brewed a viver than I could see women

and going. You're scared them, Phil. I'm serious. But I think the story leading into this will, because I do think this is another thing that causes people to ponder, because you have Jesus born. And then you only have this one story about from... Think about it. He became famous for something that had never been mentioned

from Genesis through Malachi. And then Matthew, Luke, Luke, and John, a 400-year-law, and somebody looks up and says, who in the world, heard somebody hollering coming up out of the desert area over, you know, and they all looked at who in the world is that? I mean, they thought had no idea that Jesus was on his way and has arrived, and now we're getting down to it. But you just think about it, he's walking out across the desert,

and he's the first person in the Bible to ever mention, and he becomes famous for it, anyone being baptized in water. Right. And I've always... Oh, I agree. We should talk about that. I've thought, you know, everybody tries to dismiss it at some point.

But I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, he instituted that. And I've never heard of that before. Anybody being... Well, I mean, like the scholars will say, well, they were ceremonial washings and of sorts. But I agree with you. It's like that was the campaign. Yeah. You've got 400 years of silence.

You got a guy raised by wolves because his parents were so old. I mean, he's a nickname, baptizer. He became orphaned. I mean, you would assume, because his parents were so old, they were past childbearing age. So you figure he's just out there in the woods. Well, and the Nazarite vow that he was under, not only was it not drinking any, you know, anything, any alcohol, but it was also. never cutting his hair or beard. Yeah.

Exactly. Imagine, I mean, we're talking Gandalf here. Way worse than us. No, and he's living in the woods. This is the campaign. And then he starts baptizing people. And they're like, okay, let me get this right. Can you imagine?

People who never heard it. They're looking at each other and said, he's going to do what? And he's going to push you, go over there. He's going to push you down in the water, bring him back up. They're like, And they did.

And they said, he convinced them. Yeah. Well, that's why I say, what is baptism? It's a very good question. It is. It's a surrender. Only a person who is surrendering. I mean, I put it back when I was on social media four or five years ago,

I actually used that word, something about surrender and baptism. You would have thought, I've never seen so much controversy. Yeah. People's like, oh, no, it's not a surrender. And, you know, it's a symbol. And I got every religious view of baptism, which I realized then, this is, this is embarrassing, you know, for unbelievers to just listen to Christian people, talk about what baptism is. I know. Because I'm not sure we know collectively.

You know, it was, it was like, they didn't like the verbiage. I'm sure somebody can go look it up five years ago and see exactly. what I said. But I remember they didn't like that part about saying it was a surrender, which I don't know why. But if you think about getting people to do that,

that is a humbling, surrendering to this world. There's no doubt about it. And acknowledging the, you know, the heavenly and who Jesus is. Someone's got to you by the nap of the neck and I do it all the time.

last week. Some of them are scared. Some of them think when they go down in the water, it scares them because somebody else has a hole of them and they're just being pushed plunged. There's a surrender. And there are a lot of people. I've done

that, especially women, and it scares the daylights out of them. I mean, it scares them. And I tell them, I said, don't worry. Don't worry. I said, I'm not going to turn you loose. I mean, I've seen a lot of reactions from that. I can only and when John the Baptist case, it's never been heard of.

And somebody, the likes of him walking up out of there, paving the way for the son of God, it just all the way from the miraculous showing being born in a barn, Jesus Christ, and the one that's paving the way for him, looks like he's been on, if he'd just come up out of the woods, I mean, just think about what that individual looked like. Most people would have took off running the other way. It said, good.

What if you could, you think about if you know. What is that? If you could ever come up with an act that got about as close to symbolizing you dying and being brought back to life, it would be being plunged under water because you can't live underwater. So if you stay down there long enough, you will die physically. So the question is, it's really a brief concept when you think about it. So against that. Because, I mean, I'm going to explain. You asked me a question.

I'm going to explain it. Because it gets confusing because then John's baptism is then related to what Jesus was going to do. So, because he then says, well, you know, I baptize you in water for forgiveness of sins, but there's one coming after me, Jesus, which was the marketing campaign. He'll baptize you with the spirit or in fire. Yeah. And so it's like, what exactly? So do we not use that anymore?

And then so you have a couple of occurrences in Acts where people were caught in the middle of this and were baptized by John. You remember that was that Acts? X 19. No spirit is given. Well, they said, we ain't even heard there is a spirit. And there's like, well, what baptism did you receive? You know, and so I know we're just introducing this. But, and then you get to Ephesians 4, and it's like there's one God and Father of all,

there's one Lord, one faith, and it says there's one baptism. Yep. People are, well, I thought there was two Johns and Jesuses, you know. So I think it's confusing and especially people who focus on grace, because you can't, there's nothing you can do individually to save yourself. You were saved by grace. All of us agree with that. Yep.

So when you interject something like baptism, people don't understand what to do with that because the human mind thinks, well, isn't that you doing something? Which I really think it's quite the opposite. Today, you're not doing anything. You're just surrendering your will. It's been done to you or par you. Oh, yeah. I mean physically.

So what I think, and we can talk about it when we get there, but I do think that Jesus, if you put John the Baptist preparing the way in chapter 3, 1 through 20 at least. 20, yeah. I think that should be, I mean, I wish Luke would have put 321 right after the end of chapter 2 because I think those two. things go more together. So it's kind of like Mark, you know, when we read there was a story within a story. But this is the way Luke did it because he had John the Baptist being born, Jesus. He's been flipping back and forth the whole time. Because here's my point.

I think what happened in the temple with Jesus at 12 years old relates to Jesus' baptism because it becomes about when God said, this is my son. well that becomes the theme of what happened in the temple because he said i'm in my you know i had to be at my father's house and his parents were like son what are you doing you know i mean remember his yeah how did you treat us this way but for yeah i think that's in verse well i can read it if we want to go to 41 it says luke 2 41 so every year's parents went to jerusalem for the feast of the Passover. When he was 12, they went up to the feast according to the custom. Now, I believe, I mean, maybe you or Zach have a different opinion. I think in the Jewish culture,

culture, when you were 12, that was the year before you were like, it's kind of like what we do. I did it with all my kids. When they got to be 12 or 13, we kind of had a moment where like you're becoming an adult. I think we call it a blessing. But a charge or whatever they basically based it on puberty when you hit puberty as a as a young boy man and so do we yeah and so it's around 12 or 13 and you're right what they would do was the tradition was which also means this was probably jesus's first time to go to passover when he was 12 which would make it the marvel of it even more for him but you're right they would send them to the feast a year or two before this this coming of age part when they were around 13 or so.

And for kids, it's different. But today even, Jay's, in the current modern Jewish culture, they call it a bar mitzvah, which is a recognition of about 13, that now you're entering into being able to, they call it the son of the covenant or the son of the law. In other words, now you're old enough to understand what law is, is basically what they're saying or what the covenant is. So we did the same thing with my kids. Like my daughter, I gave him a purity ring.

and my sons, I gave them a charge, and we all had their friends and spiritual people around and prayed over them. Because being a teenager is probably the toughest lot in life. You're trying to figure out your identity and your hormones are all over the place, puberty and all that. So the reason I think that the reason this is in here, to my opinion, but is because Jesus is going to make the transition. He's concluded that his father is in heaven.

Now, he wasn't, you know, and everybody goes through this identity thing because his mom was a virgin when he was born. And so I think you'll see that play out here. Because he's at the age where that really matters more than any other time because we all have been through it. You go through your identity crisis. I think that the centrality of where this has happened is important. because it's, I mean, he's going into the temple.

Again, I mean, I love to point out the importance of the temple in Jesus' ministry, you know, even going back to what you're mentioning about John the Baptist when he shows up. I mean, there's a connection there to this, this idea of the temple, even here. It says in verse 27 of two, moved by the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. He went into the temple courts. and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the law required, Simon took him in his arms and praised God saying, and then he gives this prophetic message. But even in John's baptism, going back to that for a little bit, but John's baptism, he says, I baptize you with water for repentance. So that's one baptism, which is John the Baptist's baptism of repentance, and he did it with water.

but then he prophesies of the coming of Jesus. He says, but he who is coming after me is mighter than I, who's saying, as I'm not worthy to carry, now he's going to do a different kind of baptism. He'll baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. So you got John's Water Baptism. You got Jesus's baptism of the Holy Spirit, and those are two different types of baptisms.

What separates these two baptisms more than anything is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when you're connected with Christ, God moves in you and you actually become the temple. So there's a new establishment of a new temple that's going to happen because you become the housing place of God. And I think Luke's account is interesting to me because Jesus, even at age of 13, is going into this main center of worship to kind of establish his credibility. It's kind of this first moment of him getting some street credibility because he goes in. and what he says is like profound. Well, what's prophesied over him is profound.

And then how, and then they're marveled at how well he understands the scripture. So it's like this credibility moment. It happens in the temple. Ironically, the very next chapter, John the Baptist is going to come and prophesy about the establishment of a new temple

that will happen through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which I think is, is pretty profound, you know, how to think about that. And one thing I would add to that, Zach is, and Jay's laid it out very well, I think, leading into the discussion, and we'll talk much more about when we get there in the text. But it's not really an either or, but a both and because this is happening over the course of time.

In other words, John said, I baptized with water. He'll baptize with Holy Spirit. All that's, of course, true. And that's exactly what happened. But they still baptized with water, even after John was gone, beginning in the first century. Well, some people don't believe that. I know they don't, but I'm saying that Acts 8, historically is there. Another passage, you know, when the Philip and the unit, I mean, I just don't, you'd have to rip that page out of your Bible if you didn't believe that.

He said, going along in a desert, reading Isaiah, who's the prophet talking about? You know, he was talking about Jesus. So Philip, I think Jesus. Jesus brought the Holy Spirit into the equation, which I think is what's just point. I think the answer Phil's point earlier, though, from my perspective on this, if you make water the focal point, then I understand why I would push back on that. I do think water baptism is commanded in Scripture, but water baptism is a symbol of a spiritual baptism in Jesus.

The water does not save you. I mean, that is so clear when you read what Peter says. Yeah, first period three is clear. However, I don't think, I think when you look at it as a command instead of a surrender, that's a tricky slope to go on. You know, because then you're doing it because you have to and not because you want to. And I think that matter. But I think, I mean, I just see it as being consistent because John's baptism in water didn't save either.

Repentance to God is what forgives sin. And so it's the same idea of faith. whether it was John's baptism or later on the Holy Spirit. What the Holy Spirit did was he changed the entire equation because, to your point, Zach, which I agree with, now God lives in you. And that wasn't happening. The temple was still around when John the Baptist was running around. Nothing changed.

Yeah. Well, that's true, but I think it gets confusing when the Spirit was on John the Baptist. The Spirit was on, who else had we just read here in the past couple of chapters? Well, also, send me in. The Holy Spirit was on. The Holy Spirit was on. That's what gets confusing, because even in John 7, you know, when it says, Jesus said streams of living water will flow within you,

and it says, by this, he meant the spirit, which had not been poured out that those would later receive. So I think the reason this is so confusing to get back to Phil's question on, well, how come people can't see it, is because you see it. to have the spirit own and working in people prior to the spirit being poured out. And it goes way further than that. Well, you got a dog. But there's a difference. No, but.

I'm just saying it seems. No, there is a difference. There's a difference between the Holy Spirit being on you and then the undwelling, and the Holy Spirit, and dwelling the believer. That's a different capacity. You know, I agree with it. I've used this illustration hundreds of times, because we have. when we have this discussion.

You know, if you had, if you drank some milk, it's in you, right? If someone threw some milk on you, well, that's a totally different circumstance. But it's still the same milk and it's on and in you, right? But what I'm saying, Zach, is to be fair. We know that that's a difference. But if you read the scripture just in the first two chapters, the Holy Spirit is coming. We're talking about a spirit. This is not milk.

It's the Holy Spirit of God. And it's working in people. I mean, it can't be any more clear than that. I'm just saying that it's confusing to try to relate that to someone who's not in Jesus. If they're reading their Bible, they're like, well, it looks like to me, the Holy Spirit is being poured out. Well, it was working through there. And I'm saying that's a valid. we need to do a better job of trying to explain this.

The only thing you can do is try to teach it in context because even the baptism of the Holy Spirit that we see happens obviously in Acts 2 when it's poured out on the apostles who then share with the people. But then even then it was in two stages because then we get to Acts 10 because the Gentiles haven't been fully. Well, maybe even three because of Acts 19, the one I mentioned, the Spirit fell on them. And they started speaking in tongues. That's what I'm saying next to you.

I mean, usually when you read the Spirit is on people, it's a miraculous type thing. But not always, because we just read two places here. You know, the Holy Spirit was on John the Baptist from birth. And you had Simeon, the Holy Spirit, was on it. And I don't think there was anything miraculous that happened. But usually it is. There was a, there was a, uh, Simeon's prophecy. to a balance of success.

But a prophecy, was that really, did he really say anything that was? He said some very, a lot of, he said. Him saying the light of for revelation of the Gentiles was a huge thing. Yeah. Because up into this point, except for a few references. That would have been something he could not have had. And then he also said, is destined to cause the falling and the rising of many in Israel and to be a sign that will be spoken against.

so the thoughts and the hearts will be revealed and a sword will pierce your own soul too. So there was some pretty, I mean, there's a, there was, but I'm saying, you can, you can deem that from reading scriptures, what I was. And remember, John the Baptist himself received the Holy Spirit in the womb. It came upon him. So, I mean, here's a guy that's ahead of his time. But that was my point out. So to the person who, we all believe this and we all know the arguments,

but I'm sent to a person who have never heard this. I understand. They're like, well, I thought it hadn't been poured out yet. How's it on him in the womb? That's my question. I'm not arguing. I'm just saying that's what people, when they read this, that's why this is kind of a record scratch moment.

They're like, what, you know, why are the John the Baptist? Why baptism? It had never been mentioned. Phil's right. Yeah. He does something totally counterciful. I tell you something else that had never been mentioned, forgiveness of sins. I mean, you read the whole Old Testament. You don't see that. You see sacrifice.

You see blood. You see Passover. But you don't read the words forgiveness of sin in the Old Testament. So that's another new phrase that John the Baptist comes up with. You know, repentance and forgiveness. At the beginning, though, at the very beginning of the Genesis account, you do see the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God was covering over the water. So God's Spirit, I think we, I think this is important to talk about because we want to reduce the Holy Spirit to an experience. We want to reduce the Holy Spirit to maybe the prophetic word or the miracles or all.

And I'm like, well, no, that's a function of stuff he's done. But we are talking about the third member of the triune God. He was always present and always active. It's not like the Holy Spirit wasn't around in the Old Testament. And all of a sudden, oh, all of a sudden he gets poured out and he gets invented and God creates the Holy Spirit. And now he's doing stuff. No, no, no. He was there from the very beginning.

And you see it in the word. He's there from the very beginning. Now he is going to take on an incredible. role in the New Testament because you see this triune God all coming together. We'll get, I mean, not to jump forward here, but we're going to see John's Jesus's baptism. All this is kind of coalescing into this moment where the father, son, and spirit are, are they're actively instituting the kingdom here on earth, the upside down kingdom, and they're doing it in individual people's bodies.

If you read it, if you read it, you'll read about 80 to 90 times beginning in Matthew. Mark, Luke, John, Book of Acts, the Corinthian letters, people were coming and wanting Paul only to baptize him. They still got a little confused on who's doing the baptize. But you look throughout the rest of the Bible. You start in Matthew. It's mentioned a lot. Too much to just sort of look at it and move on. I mean, there's something going on there when it comes to baptism.

it's mentioned too many times throughout the New Testament. No, it's been dismissed. I think it's been dismissed. In the beginning of it, it was John the Baptist, which is amazing, you know. I think the reason why people have dismissed it, though, is an overreaction to those who would overemphasize it. And I'm not saying it's not sacramental in some ways. I mean, maybe there's an argument that there's a means of grace in baptism.

It's hard to make a work out of it. You know what I'm saying, though? it's hard to make it work. Yeah, but people have. I mean, I mean, I grew up thinking, I mean, as being honest, I grew up being taught, you have to be baptized to go to heaven. And it's what saves you and it's when you're saved and when we would preach the gospel, what that meant in my world was you're preaching baptism.

So you're actually, we talked that the gospel was actually the response to the gospel and called it the gospel. So I grew up hearing that. And I remember hearing the debates between the Baptist and the Church of Christ people. when I'd listen to all that and participated in some of that. But I think that it was an overreaction to that saying, no, no, wait, wait, water doesn't save you. And that's true. And I think that's, so I think we're seeing now. Unless you're baptized of water and the spirit.

It's mentioned together in that right there. You can't enter the kingdom of God. Well, it means something. Well, then you get into the, John. I mean, you're going to get into these arguments. No, you're right. And I think that's why it's important to do what we're doing and having to on this podcast is study the entire New Testament in its context in relationship to show

exactly how this was laid out because Zach's right you don't want to ever view anything from a point of what you've always heard or maybe you were taught the wrong way oh exactly you have to approach the bible the eunuch who had never he didn't even know who jesus was and when when the prophet got done with him i mean the first pothole they passed they stayed they stopped. He said, look, there's some water. Why shouldn't I be baptized? Well, he actually said stop the cherry.

Yeah, stop the cherry. I like that. He, up into that point, he had never heard of Jesus. He said, who's the prophet? Who's Jesus? Who's he talking about Isaiah? I mean, who's he talking about himself or somebody else? So.

Yeah. And look, it's evident that baptism was now going to be a part of the lexicon of everybody that was a believer because not only did you see John bring it up, but the first time Peter preaches the gospel after the Holy Spirit fell on, what does he say? What do we do? Well, he does. But I'm just trying to get to the point that Jesus himself is fixed to be baptized. And so the reason I don't want you to be distracted, because it seems like when we read the end of Luke 2 and we'll skip the John the Baptist part and go to when Jesus was baptized, there's a theme in those two paragraphs.

and it is the sonship of Jesus. And I think you'll see that. So I left off in verse 43, it says of chapter 2. After the feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Which, by the way, that makes it sound like he'd stay behind on purpose. He did. That's why I brought up the deal about him being 12, and he was fixed to beat,

You know, his dad, Joseph, you know, is probably mentoring him and getting him ready for this age of accountability or whatever you want to call it in their culture. Well, we do the same thing. So, well, and Jesus thinking of his idea. I mean, you got to remember, God became a human. He's growing. It's hard for us to look at Jesus as a six-year-old and an eight-year-old. But he was. And so he's figured out that he's the son of God.

So his parents, he's like, he said, yeah. I mean, this is not like when I was a kid. I ran away multiple times. No one noticed. A lot like here. Because, I mean, when people read, they're sort of like, well, he was gone three days. You know, how can you not be aware of it? The story of my childhood.

You can't run it away and nobody knows. I'd run away and no one would notice. And actually, Jay, is interesting. him because he it was what they did was you go back and stay a little bit of how they traveled when they would go in groups the women would leave out ahead and because they travel a little bit slower and so and then they would meet up the men would come later they would all connect when they were going to camp out when they had these distances to travel and it was their whole family it was a right it was a classic thing of mary thought he was with joseph joseph joseph thought he was with mary

but jesus played off both of them and just stayed so that's what happens which shows you how smart he was but kids you know a lot of times are smarter and he's going to be alone five days in jerusalem yeah at 12 so 44 thinking he was in their company they traveled on for a day then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends when they did not find him they went back to jerusalem to look for him just two days a day out a day back and then it took him three days once they got yeah after three days they found him in the temple court sitting among the teachers listening to them and asking them questions because that makes more sense now he's he's understanding who he is where he came from where he's going i mean

most teenagers do his identity but unlike a lot of teenagers he's doing it he's pursuing god first which is what we all should be doing everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers i mean he was 12 years old when his parents saw him They were astonished. His mother said, son, why have you treated us like this? And this is so, I've heard my wife say this to our kids many times, your father. And it's like it gives it more weight.

It doesn't say me and dad. It says, your father. That's not being called your whole name, you know. That's funny. I've been anxious searching for you. Why were you searching for me? Jesus asked, didn't you know

I had to be now this is the bombshell statement in my father's house. So he's saying yes I'm at it's like he said I get what you're trying to do.

I'm 12. You've been training me this year because that's what they would do in that culture. That was the you know kind of the year before you're declared as a as a man going

through puberty and starting to do manly things. But he uses that to encounter his father, God, who he's right. He is the son of God. He is his father. You know, via the Holy Spirit. That was also a little subtle statement to Joseph, even though we know later he says he goes and obeis him.

So it's not being disrespectful to Joseph. Oh, no, to me, that's the powerful part. But he's letting Joseph know. By the way, Luke. I do have a father. but he's in heaven. If you look at it carefully, that's the first thing he said there, what Jason said, why were you searching for me?

Didn't you know I had to be in my father's house? That's red letters. Well, up in that time, no red letters. So it was an unveiling moment. That's true. And again, to emphasize the emphasis of the temple here, remember what Jesus said. that in John 2, the first time he overturned the temple in John's account, it happens at the

beginning of his ministry, which would be, I guess, if he was 13 here, it would have been 20 years later. He goes in and sees they made a mockery of it, and he says that you've turned my father's house into a den of robbers, I believe is what it says. And then in Mark's account, right after the triumphal entry, he goes into the temple again. This is like within the last week of his life. And he sees the same thing happening. He overturns the tables of the money changers and all that stuff. And he says, is it not written.

He's a red letters too, Phil. My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you've made it a den of robbers. So think of the progression here. You've got 13-year-old Jesus saying, did you not know I would be in my father's house? You got Jesus at the beginning of his ministry saying, you've turned my father. house into a den of robbers. And then he goes in and he quotes this Old Testament thing. My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations,

but you have made it a den of robbers. The chief priest and the teachers of the law heard this and they began looking for a way to kill him. I think there's something significant about Jesus' ministry and what's happening in this temple and then what he is going to accomplish to the cross of establishing a new temple, himself as the chief cornerstone, and then all of the believers, which would be us, as other stones built upon him, the cornerstone, as together we are now a temple being built up to where God dwells. There's something big, big, big happening here.

Another verse that goes along with what you said is Hebrews 3,6, which we can discuss in overtime. But it says, but Christ is faithful as a son. That's what we're talking about over God's house. And we are his house. if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast. Yeah, that's good. We're out of time, but we want to continue to discussing this in our overtime.

And I like it because we've kind of put it all together around Chapter 3, which contextually is probably good because it all plays in together. So if you want to follow us over, blazedtv.com slash unashamed to hear our overtime save. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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