Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 71 | Al Gets Called a 'False Teacher,' Jase Goes to Prison, and Do You Have to Be Baptized?

Episode Date: April 3, 2020

Al claps back after being labeled a "false teacher" for something he doesn't even believe. Phil and Jase get fired up discussing the #1 question they get: "Do I have to be baptized?" Jase talks about when he "went to prison for two years," why he's nondenominational, and why he's irked by bad baptism questions. The guys also discuss whether or not Christians should judge, why you shouldn't base your faith on hypotheticals, and being saved by grace and faith. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am Unachange What about you? So I'm I'm looking on the internet, Jason. I see I was looking for something and

that maybe I was looking for something I had done and so I put my own name in. I don't know if you've ever done a self-google search. You know, I don't think I have. Well, I put it in there. I was looking for something. I sure have it. Something in particular.

And so I saw, I looked down and there's a line of, things with my name or Alan Robertson, you know, there are more people than just me name that. But I saw a false teacher Al Robertson. I saw that. I was like, whoa. You're thinking there's another. Yeah, there's got to be another. It's not me. I'm not a false teacher. So I'll go click on it. And it was some guy I'd spoken, this was old. It was like been posted three years ago when I spoke at the Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary, which is in Fort Worth. And I was invited, Lisa and I were invited to do a marriage thing.

But then they asked me to speak at chapel while I was there because their chapel meets every day. So I was like, yeah, that's awesome. That would be great. So I did a thing. My chapel lesson was the top ten things I wish I had known when I was in seminary. Oh, because you were talking to the students. I was talking to the students. So I kind of went back and like, so I kind of gave, you know, you think all these things when you're in preaching school.

And then all of a sudden you get out and you realize most of that not even applies. So that was my approach. And I thought it was pretty good. But anyway, this guy who apparently wasn't happy that I was invited, but he was more taking shots at the president of university who had invited me. And he's like, he labeled me as a false teacher in the ass. The typical internet at the top of it, it's false teacher. But he hadn't even heard you speak. No, I hadn't even spoken yet.

He did this before I spoke. So then when I go down and I look in the text of why I was a false teacher according to this person who's never heard me speak, it said that. that I believe I came out of the Church of Christ's background, which automatically it makes them, I guess, a false teacher. But then it said, and, you know, they believe. It wasn't then. It wasn't me. It was like, and here's what they believe.

And then he talked about water regeneration, which that somehow we believe. And I've heard this before. And maybe someone did in the church guys. I don't know, but I never have because that the water itself had some sort of magical quality in it that provided salvation, which we don't believe. which we don't believe at all. And so I thought it was interesting because we're going to be telling

about John 3 today and we're talking about baptism. But I was labeled a false teacher for something I don't even believe and I've never taught in my whole life. I think the biggest problem... Welcome to the internet. The biggest problem of that that I see

is that people put way too much stock on what a sign says or... True. You know, our background was that, but probably most churches, you know, of Christ, I mean, there's different ones. They have big seas and small seas. And, you know, you go into one.

And that doesn't necessarily mean they're all the same. Same with Baptist. I mean, I think there's, what, 101 different ways to be a Baptist? I'm sure. And you'll have individuals that'll teach crazy stuff. Like, we were in a little small church that mom and dad helped start. And the guy that was the preacher there, he started teaching that you don't have the Holy Spirit. and of course you know dad was a fairly new Christian I mean you'd been around a little while

but you were like you don't have the holy spirit so granny and pa at that time were alive and they attended this church too you remember and they started doing just a deep dive on the holy spirit and we were like was of course you have the holy spirit you don't personally have the holy spirit remember was that that that guy that had taken uh he took a pen and everywhere it said spirit he crossed it out in his bible drove alive in it and put word. And put word. Now look. So what I'm saying is that's a crazy teaching, but that came out

of people in our heritage, but we never believe that or taught that. And we wind up leaving over it, you know, because we were like, you know, we can't. There's a lot of things about organized religion that's not good, and that's one of them about lumping people into certain denominations. You know, I've always said I'm

non-denominational. You know, I love Jesus. and any group that exalts Jesus is lowered, oh, I'm with them, and we'll work out the rest of it later. I'm really not too worried about it. Yeah. You know, I've said before,

one of the reasons why Lisa and I love the pro-life movement so much because that's where we do most of our speaking. So I go into a fundraiser for a pregnancy center. We're the main speakers. Nobody asks us what group we're with or whatever, which is great because I don't want to be associated with anything. But you go in there and here come the nights of Columbus, us, you know, for life, the Catholic organization, and they're bringing in the color guard

and we do the Pledge of Allegiance and someone sings the national anthem. And then the Baptist pastor from that community usually gets up and does the opening prayer. And then the Methodist guy does the closing prayer and this other guy. And I just look at that. I think, you know, we've got a lot in common here to try to save babies. That's way better to me than the old days of just everybody on every corner is fighting the whole time.

That's what's happened to our culture. of course we missed you we missed the big picture that we were falling apart and arguing over theology i don't like putting people into boxes and labeling i just don't like it you know what weird what's weird about us and we all know this that you know god did through our show is it kind of brought all different religions together because it was finally something on tv that was you could watch with your whole family and that we prayed to God. And so everybody kind of claimed us, which what's weird is I go to, I think I've been to every conceivable branch of denominational religion that's offered.

I have never had one negative word. I haven't done a Google search of myself. But to my knowledge, you may find there's some negative. I know there's some negative on Phil. But it's even like, you know, when people think, well, what was your heritage? you know, I didn't find Jesus in the church building. So I've never really been attached to any kind of religious group as far as, oh, this is my denomination.

I mean, y'all know me. I go to a couple different churches that are different, you know. I do it. I mean, because I just, I think it helps me keep it in perspective that we're not policemen. We don't have everything figured out in the details. We got Jesus. And we're not their judge. No.

I'm never going to make any kind of judgmental. The man says he's a brother. I'm like, I embrace him as a brother. You know, the part that I think people miss is that, you know, a lot of churches, they make judgments on what they call salvational issues and they'll put them in quotes. But if you actually read the Bible, the only time he ever talks about Christians being judgmental in a positive way is in, I believe it's 1st Corinthians 5. Yep.

And it's all about lifestyle. You had immorality going on. Yeah. Now, I do think... Apostle Paul said, you need to judge the ones inside. Well, right. But it was about lifetters.

If someone told me they're a brother and I'm hearing filth come out of his mouth and he's hoaring around. He's hoaring around. And I'd say, well, let me show you something here. I would start showing him some verses that would prove who he is,

I've done it them many a time. You know, I've converted a lot of people. I've told you all when I went to prison for two years, y'all didn't know my time. But even then I don't judge him out. Well, hang on, let me finish that before we send my... Yeah, I hadn't heard about your prisons day. Yeah, you didn't know I was in prison for two years?

I did not know. Well, I went voluntarily because they said they wanted somebody to lead a devotional. And, of course, it wasn't a good prison either, you know. And so I said, I'll do it. I was young. Are there any good prisons? What would character as a good prison?

It wasn't a good prison. I'm like, well, here's what I mean. I was there. You were waiting for a good prison, Jay. Well, here's what I mean by that. Get to your part, Jay. I was there for five minutes. And one of the prisoners, like, said, you know, I'll basically what he said with a bunch of four-letter

words is I'll gut you like a something. You know, I was like, you're talking to me? What I'm saying is it was a vile place. And but what I noticed is, is every time I got into their life, their first response, because they've been doing this a whole life. I mean, they're locked up in prison. Is there like, you know, you're judging me. I'm like, you've already been judged and they locked you up.

You're in prison. Yeah, you're in prison. And now you're in denial because I'm trying to get you out of it. I'm trying to, you know, through Jesus, free you. you despite you being locked up. But I just noticed that was there always their go-to. Everyone up, well, you can't judge me. I'm like,

sure I can. And I'd read that First Corinthians 5. You're claiming, you know, to be a child of God in your life, your life, as far as when it comes to making decisions. Yeah. Has been an utter disaster. So we need, let's talk about that. You know, yeah, I'm making the judgment.

You're making terrible decisions in the name of Jesus. then when somebody confronts you about your life, you're like, oh, well, you can't judge me. You know, and I'm like, nope, I'm making a judgment. You're into now and you're lying because, I mean, you had to be kind of tough with them, you know. And but like I say, the tougher you got, they always would get, you know, I'll kill you. But I would say, well, kill me. Fine.

I'm going to heaven. You know, I got God's spirit. I'm not going to be threatened by your, you know, you're bullying because that's what they've done their whole life. But anyway. Basically, when I was in a. I went, I've been to prisons back and forth, down in Angola, they said 75, 80% will spend the rest of their life. Yeah, because it's our-

And never go back down the road they drove in on. He said, they'll never, never come back through that main gate because you're driving along down there out in the middle of nowhere, and you just run up on a, I mean, a barricade across the road, and you are now entering the prison. and grounds. And I told those guys, I got up, my line to them was, guys, end of the line. End of the line.

You actually read Galatians. Galatians 3. I was there the night. So Dad starts out and he says, the whole world is a prisoner of sin. And you looked up, because we had about 700 people in the room with us. And then they were sending it out to the whole prison. Death row, everybody. All the way out.

And so Dad looks up, you know how he is. He's read that verse. He said, Can you boys relate to that? The whole world is a prisoner of sin. That's how you launched into your son. What I told them was my first statement after that, I just said, listen, you're not going back down that road you came in on.

You're in here for life because of something, whether it was rape, robbery, whatever, murder. Here we all are. I said, just remember before I give my little speech here, you can be under lock and key, which you are. I said, but you can still be free. Even in your situation, you can still be set free, even where you are. I said, so there is hope, and I'm fixing to give you the hope. So I preach the gospel to them. The warden told me later and the response, and because of the Bible text that are many,

when I got to the response to the gospel, which we'll get through in John 3, you're saved by your faith. There has to be a point in time. here's a guy who's locked up in prison. He's there for murder. He's been told he can still be set free. He'll figure out what the truth is. The truth has set him free, even here.

I said, then you can talk to people who come down here where you are. You deserve to be locked up for what you did. Well, you're never getting out. I said, but you can be free in Jesus the rest of your days here. And I said, your body can be raised from that graveyard out there where you're going they've got a big graveyard there for the ones who have died through the years i said you can still be set free even from the grave itself so i preached the gospel to them and the response to it faith make jesus your lord in the middle of all this this this terrible situation you're in under lock and key and i said

die to sin be buried and be raised from the dead and i gave him roman six which is water baptism i gave him that. Someone said, well, why would you tell them about that? You believe, you know, you should do that. I said, yeah. Well, when they call the warden, some of the guys back in death row, they called the warden, and they said, is any way the warden told me this later, he said, Phil, they called me, and they said, as any way, can you all release me from my cell here, put me in chains or

whatever, and take me down there to the lake, which was on the grounds of Angola and baptized me. And the warden said, we certainly can. So they would bring them out of the prison out of death row. They'd get in some kind of wheeler and ride down out to the lake. And he said, I'd allow them to be baptized. And he said, they would look toward the sky and said, even though I'm here, I've been set free. The warden said it made a monumental change in the way they operated. So they wouldn't let me when I was there.

They wouldn't, I wasn't at it. They didn't allow me to do it. Yeah, but they did it, which is fine with me. Well, me either. They, they wouldn't allow water to come in there. But some of them who would get set free, literally, they, you know, unfortunately, I would give them my number and I'd tell them I'd meet them if they wanted to be baptized because it was their idea. You know, they're like, want to be baptized, but not one of them ever.

Once they got out, they never met me. Yep. You know what I mean? Yep. which, you know, you don't want to call in to question their motives, but it just, that's how different. By the way, Osseman said, so why would you tell them to do that to put their faith in Jesus and repent and confess Jesus as Lord and be baptized in water? Because when Jesus was raised from the dead and they were still some of them doubting, he said, listen, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. therefore you go make disciples of all nations and you baptize them the name of the father

son the holy spirit teach them to obey everything i've commanded you and i'll be with you to the end of days well that was jesus talking go make disciples and baptize them but when i go to angola or anywhere else i said well i don't know what if you be a disciple if you if you have your faith in jesus that's what's going to save you your faith here's what you do about it your response well you take that and just start down there they they came to you Jesus and said, well, who gave you the authority to fry that fig tree to kill it? Just sitting there. He just fried the tree.

And he said, who gave me the authority to fry the fig tree? He said, let me ask you something. John's baptism. Was it from heaven or men? Well, that's the age old question that we're discussing in John 3. What a baptism? Jesus asked him. You're wondering about how I performed that miracle.

And instead of believing the miracle, which you should have, if it looks like somebody sprayed it would round up and it died overnight because I cursed it instead of you saying, whoa, I mean, well, we need to believe in him. Look what he just did. No, that didn't do it for him. So he went to something real unusual. He said, John's baptism.

Was it from heaven or men? And they all huddled up and they said, well, we can't say it's from heaven because he's going to say, why didn't you? you let him baptize you. Right. If it's from heaven. And they said if we, if we,

they're in a little huddled. If we say it's from men, all the people are going to turn on us because they think John's a prophet and he's from God and he's doing all these baptizing. And they say what you will. In the Jordan River, you say there were people and he's saying,

you brew the snakes, who told you to flee from the coming wrath? But he's steadily baptized. If I had never read that. That was Matthew. 21. Yeah, if I had never read, starting there, never heard about baptism at all in water, none. All of a sudden, you see this guy coming and you're like, who in the world is that?

John the Baptist. But we got to disconnect in our society because, look, that's our number one. Why wouldn't you just do it? Because people don't understand it, obviously. That's our number one question. A lot of questions about it. Yeah, about baptism. So I guess what I've realized.

through doing this podcast, there's a lot of different teachings about baptism. Because we're getting a lot of different questions. Are you saying this? Which I think part of the problem are we have bad questions. And here's what I mean by that. If I gave you a redneck illustration, which I'll just make it up on the fly. So here we go. But let's say someone comes to you and they say,

I'm going to give you a billion dollars. And not only that, I'm going to take you there. I'm going to come with you and take you to the billion dollars. So I'll meet you in a submarine and we'll go get it. I'll take you there. Well, if I'm standing there, I'm like, well, why a submarine? I mean, that usually wouldn't be the response, but it seems like that's kind of what we have when it comes to baptism.

I mean, it's bigger than how we're getting there. Would you agree? I mean, I'm trying to equate a billion dollars with salvation, which may be a bad analogy, but I'm just saying, Jesus saves you. He dies on a cross. He's resurrected. He says, I'll give you everything. Everything I have is yours, which.

is everything. You can live forever. You get forgiveness. I've saved you. You can be raised from the you. Raised from the debt. Well, that's the billion dollars is my point. I mean, here it is. And not only that, I'll give you the Holy Spirit to make sure you get there. Jesus call what you're describing the gift of God. Remember when he had the, when we get there in John 4, the Samaritan woman, he said, because she asked him about water and he said, if you knew the gift of God and who was asking you for a drink, you would ask me for living water that would lead you to eternal life. So that's what you're talking about. My point is, the question is, look, they say, well, do I have to?

That's a bad question. That's my point. Is this required? That's another bad question. I don't think those questions should be asked. It should be what should I do to get a great gift for it? Well, you said, I mean, what I'm saying is you shared Jesus and you say, say here's like what you just quoted because you because Phil's mind works like what he said

go make disciples baptize them what's your problem yeah well because they're saying well do I have to it's according to Jesus that's what he said well see you answer the question I don't answer that question when someone says I just do what he says is this is this required I'm like so what I say is why are you asking that question you've got a billion dollar you know okay forget this The Redneck Illustrated. You have salvation, eternal life, and you're like, well, do I have to do this one part? What you're getting at is there's a teaching that came through this very thing. And the teaching is, since you're saved by grace, there is nothing you have to do.

Or can't do. Or can't do. You're saved by. So the Apostle Paul said, I'm preaching the gospel. That's Jesus coming down in flesh, dying on a cross, being buried and raised from the dead. It's the gospel of God's grace. What they say is, well, there's nothing you can do. Well, first of all, the first thing you have to do is put your faith in that.

That is you putting your faith in Jesus and who he is and what he did. You have to do that. You do. And you say, well, that's it, though, right? I'm like, no, you're going to have. have to, you are going to have to repent, turn from your wicked ways. But they'll say there's nothing you can do. You say, well, wait a minute.

There's nothing you can do. You said, these are things you have to do to believe and to repent. You say, well, when my mouth moved, Jesus is Lord, there's nothing I can do. Well, if there's no confession that Jesus is Lord, if you believe in your heart that God raised it from the dead and you confess with your mouth. Jesus is lower. That's something you do. I don't understand this thing about there's nothing you have to do. I think we found something that feels passionate about it. Hang on. Let's take it. That's even before you get to about it. Let's take a break and then we'll come back. But the point is

people are not, I don't think that explanation is going to work. They're not getting that. It works for some. It is. It is plain scriptures. Yeah, but I think if I read Ephesians to, I mean, let's just read it. What you just quoted, it says, because this verse four, Ephesians 2.4, but because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions. It is by grace you have been safe. 100%. I agree with that statement. Okay. No, well, now, hang on. That's it. Ephesian Swat? They knew he's hanging on.

That's Ephesian Swat. That's Ephesians Swat. Two, six. Two, six. Well, you got four, Ephesian four. There's one body, I was going to get there. One Lord, one baptism. Wait a bit.

Where'd that come from? Well, because of the next verse, two, six. And God raised us up. Well, I know what that's referring to because I know Roman six like the back of my hand. It says, we, God raised us up with Christ as we reenact Jesus's death and baptism. Well, right. But, but here's my, my point is, I'm perfectly fine, and I think it's 100%

theologically correct to say that God saves you 100% and there's nothing you can do to save yourself, because if Jesus didn't die and wasn't buried and wasn't resurrected, you are incapable of being saved. Correct. I don't care. How much faith he got? If that did not happen, if God did not do that, you're out. So that's their point, which I agree with.

As do I. Which gets me back to my redneck illustration. It has nothing to do with who's doing the saving, who's doing the carrying to the salvation, to the payoff. The problem is we as humans come up with these silly questions of saying, God is giving you everything. He has supplied everything you need for life and godliness. And so we're like, well, do I have to respond? You know, there's nothing I can do.

You see my point. So they come up with questions that I think are illogical and irrational. So, because look, but if you keep on, it says in order that the coming ages, he might show the incomparable riches of his grace expressed in kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not from yourselves. It's not, that's why I said, that is an accurate statement. You are not producing any salvation, none.

It is the gift of God. So my point is, let's say you use that. You have a gift, Christmas gift. Here it is. salvation provided by someone else and someone says you know will meet me at wherever the street corner and I'll give you the gift and you're like well no I can't I'm not sure I have you know because there's nothing I can do anything I can't unwrap it I can't look at it I'm just well wait a minute here well then that's why I was going to get to

Ephesians 4. He comes up with all these statements. He's talking about there's one body, there's one spirit. We all agree, you know, there's only one Holy Spirit. You are called to one hope. Well, that's what saves you, the death and brown resurrection of Jesus. One Lord, we got Jesus, one faith. Well, then he throws in one baptism. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but it means something. Or he wouldn't have thrown it in. in there. Yeah. You know, man.

I think that's why dad used the phrase, which is the proper phrase, is what is our response to the gift? Well, that's what I'm drawing. We respond. People, but here's the problem. Dad's right. Somewhere along the line, people decided that to accept Christ is not response. I mean, that's still part of the gift.

To commit to him, he's going to be the Lord of my life, is not. But then somehow baptism. Your point is that even if you say a prayer, I mean, at some point you accept Jesus. But what happened to this? Well, there's nothing, you know. At some point we have to respond.

Well, why would Peter, why would Peter, when Jesus leaves, say, stay right here, you'll receive power. My spirit comes on you. And that happened. And Peter gets up. And he goes to Jesus, his death, barrel, and resurrection.

Correct. And then he says, David died, he's still dead. But this Jesus, he's both Lord and Christ. He's the Messiah. He's the one. Well, these Jews that were listening to him, thought, wait a minute here. We're the ones that killed him. And this guy is saying, by us killing him, it's going to save us.

Well, no wonder they were cut to the heart. They were cut to the heart because you say they believed it. But watch carefully. They said, well, what do we do? We didn't realize this. We didn't know he was the one. We said, crucified. So you're telling us, that's going to save us and murdering him?

And Peter said, that's right. So what do we do? Well, why are you waiting on an answer, okay, we are devastated by what you just told us. You mean, he's alive? How do we respond? How do we respond? That's what they're asking. What do we do?

And he said, repent and be baptized. Now look, evidently, when he said repent and be baptized, I see the water. I see the water of John 3 in the name of Jesus, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It's a promise to you, your children, and all those who far off. Well, we're 2,000 years down the road here. But what's this? That didn't end there because he starts warning them.

He begins to plead with them. Evidently, they haven't moved yet. When it came down to what do we do? He said repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the mission of your sins. God will give you the spirit. Well, I'm looking at a lot of things come together with their response by faith in the gospel that they just heard. Well, if he's pleading with them and he's warning them, what's Peter saying?

He's saying, well, then it says, and about here's the exact reading. with many other words after they were given the answer to what shall we do he tells them repent and be baptized God to give you the spirit he warned them he pleaded with them and he said why would he put it this way because we're saved by grace and there's nothing we can do well why would peter say save yourselves from this corrupt generation. They had a choice to move on what he said and respond by faith through being baptized and given the spirit.

Save yourself from this corrupt generation. That tells me this thing about there's nothing you can do. Well, there's nothing you can do when it comes to hand for your sin. He has before them the response to what they heard, the gospel had saved you. Those who accepted his,

message, something else they did. You say they accepted his message. They were baptized. That's interesting. And about 3,000 were added to their number that day. Well, if you're going to end the story by saying, what do we do? And you end up with saying 3,000 were added that number that day. You said, was that before they were baptized or after? It was after they were baptized. I mean, I agree with your point. So I'm reading these texts. I'm saying, what is the problem here? Well, the problem is because I agree with what you're saying, except your response to Ephesians 2.6 is just saying, well, there's another verse that says, save yourself. There's nothing you can do to get your sins removed without the blood of Jesus on the cross. You must acknowledge that. Well, of course. Well, what I'm saying is there's people. The question is when? I know, but I'm in the middle of this because we, the church that we were brought up in, they run around and tell people they have to be baptized to be saved,

but they never told people why. That is correct. That's how you grew up. To me, to me, that's, no gospel. To me, that's worse than someone who understands what saves you and who, Jesus. They're saying Jesus is the image of the God, you know, the invisible God. You put your faith and trust in him. And then they're not real sure on how they respond.

If I'm going to air one way or the other, I want to air on the faith and graves. I'm going on the, because without Jesus, you're out. Well, of course. So, because then you're in a roadblock situation where you're just baptizing people without Jesus. Which happens. At gunpoint. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back.

So my, my only point was there's a disconnect in what's causing the controversy and understanding that it's the gift from God, not of yourselves. in Acts 2 when they say, what do we do? There is a response. There's a claiming of who Jesus is. In some capacity, we all have to agree with that, whether you believe it, acknowledge it. There's a claimant. There's a let's go get the prize.

Let's move on that. If we just read and looked at it with a big picture in mind, read the book of Acts. I started in Acts 2. All you have to do, everybody who's saying, well, do I have to be baptized? My answer to them is get your Bible and turn to the book of Acts. Read every conversion story in the book of Acts.

There's quite a few of them. What was the message that the apostles were preaching? And see if it wasn't. Jesus came down and died on a cross, was buried and raised from the dead. Was that the message? And they say, Phil, we read the book of Acts. That was the message. I said, is that the message you heard from me, Al, and John?

Chase. Was that the message? The gospel message. And they would have to say, that's y'all's message. I said, well, what was the response? What did the apostles tell people to do? The apostle Paul's conversion, you say, well, how did it end up? A guy asked him a question, what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away. And somebody has difficulty knowing when their sins are removed, Peter started with Acts 2. What do we do? So I don't understand if anybody with a half a brain could read the book of Acts, what was the message and what was the response to the message? Because it's because it seems to be in contrast to each other with Ephesians 2. That's why in my feeble mind, in my mind, I came up with the answer, which is baptism is the opposite of what the people who say you don't, that baptism is not important.

Let's put it that way. Because they think it's you doing something. Well, when you think about baptism, I think the way Jesus' death conquered Satan, which was an act of surrender. which is the opposite of doing something, I think baptism is the same way. When people say, well, if you say that, you know, they'll say, do I need to be baptized? Do I got to go get on the submarine to claim the product?

Whatever. They think, well, you're trying to do something. They're trying, that's why I said it's a bad question. They're setting a trap from an argumentative standpoint. You're not earning anything, but you are obeying a lot. But you're actually surrendering. Yeah, you actually don't. You actually don't do baptism.

Baptism. That's it. Which is my point. Think about a man. Because the last thing you would think. You're a sinful man and someone has you by the back of the neck. And you have been a fighter, a killer. A brawler.

A brawler. And all of a sudden, someone else that looks like me, has you by the nap of the neck. Which is irrelevant who has you by the neck. That's right. And we're out in a swamp water. and all of a sudden you are allowing some other individual on planet Earth to push you down in some water. And it's January. Would you call it a surrender?

Is that a surrender? I would say it is the ultimate surrender. Look, here's what's interesting about this. You're just staying. But let's go to a war scene on a battlefield. Of all the things that you could come up with on how to win, let's say you're the general, which would be a scary thought. You're in the war. And they said, okay, here is our path to victory.

What is the last thing that you would ever think was the path to victory? Surrender. Well, you would never say that is the way to win, which is why I think it is the answer to the arguments that we're having. You actually aren't doing anything to win because you're, surrendering to the one who saved you, which is what I was trying to. You're allowing him to him. Which is why Ephesians 2 says what it says. It's not of ourselves.

It is the gift of God. And then Ephesians 4 says there's one Lord, there's one faith, there's one baptism. And why are you there? And Epheson 5 says, you went to. Here, get the mic. Hold on, Phil, you don't have the mic in front of it. Then you read four. Then you get to five.

Husma's love your wife, Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for a two-maker holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word. What in the world would it mean? That's verse 20. Yeah, that's an interesting phrase. Because he's talking about...

It clears it up. It clears it up. It's really good. Here's one's funny about... Well, if you put those three together in the book of Ephesians, And Jay, you know, what's he been talking about? Surrender if you want to win a war. I don't know where all that's coming from.

I just read the text. I say, folks, I cannot get around this. I just brought all churches together. Because the two sides of the argument, which I think are both, you know, have their problems, they come together in that baptism, if it is surrender, as we're proposing, you're responding in a way that Jesus did to save the world,

which was he surrendered himself, died on a cross, then he was buried. They said, you know, the evil one said we killed him. Then he came back. Well, you're doing the same thing, Romans chapter 6. In baptism, it is not you saving yourself. It's not you earning in that regard. It's you simply responding in a surrendered way, just like he did.

carrying out instructions. I think it's an awesome. It's an awesome idea on how a person can respond to that. So when somebody, when I share how great Jesus is and introduce him and tell all the good news and his death and forgiveness and resurrection, and then their response is, do I have to? That just really irks me. Hang on one last. Hang on, dad.

One last break. Then we'll wrap it up. Okay. This is not about baptism, but just so you'll know, 896, 900 years before God became flesh, Jesus died on a cross, was buried and raised from the dead. He spent 40 days and then he left. The apostles get up and they preach that. And when people respond to it, they're told to repent and be baptized.

Start there. You say, well, is there any kind of story that explains this earning thing when you're baptized? that means some people have labeled and told us, well, if you tell a person he needs to be baptized, he should be baptized, you ought to be baptized, you need to be baptized. They said, well, y'all are on that too much. Here's a story. It's in Second Kings 5, Naman. He was command of the army of the king of Aram.

Read this carefully, and you'll understand what God means when he says, repent and be baptized. All those years later, he was a great man on the side of his master highly regarded, because through him the Lord had given victory to Aaron. Here's a guy named Naaman. He was a valiant soldier, but he had leprosy. He has a physical ailment, leprosy. Now, bans from Aram had gone out and taken captive of a young girl from Israel. She served Naiman's wife.

She told her mistress, if only my master would see the prophet who's in Samaria, he would cure him of the leprosy. Well, that's what would save him. Yeah. You said, I mean? Yeah. God can cure your leprosy. that if you get a hold of that prophet.

So look, Neban went to his master and told him what the girl from Israel had said. By all means, go, the king of Aramapide. I'll send you a letter to the king. I'll send a letter to the king of Israel. So Naben left, taking some money with him. Verse 7, as soon as the king of Israel read the letter when he got the letter saying,

look, this guy wants to come to see you because he says, if you'll get in touch with this prophet, that he's going to cure my leprosy. Well, when the king of Israel heard, he tore his robe. Am I God? Can I kill and bring back the life? Why does this fellow send one to me to be cured of his leprosy?

See how he's trying to pick a fight with me? Watch, here comes the prophet. When Elisha, the man of God, that's the one the little girl said, if you can get a hold of him, he'll kill you that leprosy, God will. So here comes to Elisha. He heard that the king of Israel had torn his robes. He sent him this message. Why have you torn your robes?

Have the man, Naman. He's got leprosy. Have him come to him, and he'll know that there's a message. are a prophet in Israel. So, Nabon went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elias' house. He went to see the prophet. He's in his front yard. Watch.

Elias sent a messenger to him. In other words, you say, well, the prophet came out and, you know, he's going to make a big long speech about how I'm going to cure this guy. No. He just told one of his hands, watch, go. He sent a messenger to tell the man who's got left. He didn't even go personally. He said, go out there and tell him to wash. Wash seven times in the Jordan River.

Your flesh will be restored and you'll be cleansed. Do what? I've got leprosy and hear this messenger's coming from this so-called prophet. The one that the little girl said would heal me. God would heal me through the prophet. And he sent his hand, hired hand out here and told me to go wash. Seven times in the Jordan River, Naiman went away angry.

He said, I'm not going to do that. Which would be the opposite of surrendering to the... Yeah, I thought that he would surely come out to me, stand and call on the name of the Lord is God and wave his hand over the spot. I thought he'd make a big show of this. What's this dip myself seven times in water? I mean, and it has to be the Jordan River.

So what's what he says. Are not Abana and Farpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters in Israel? What's this crossing two rivers to get to another one? What? Now, he didn't like the plan. No. Couldn't I be washed in these rivers here and be cleansed?

So he turned and went off in a rage. He said, no, I'm not going to carry out the instructions. No, sir. Well, there he's bodies, leprosy all over him. He's like, he's arguing about what to do. And the prophets already told him, go to the Jordan River, dip seven times. You'll be all right. He said, you're talking to me?

Cross two rivers to get to another. It's all about faith and look and obedience, response to what the information was. But my point is, still God is doing the curing. We're getting there. A hundred percent. Naman service went to him and said, My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it?

How much more than when he tells you, the prophet said wash and be cleansed? Well, maybe there's some kind of medicinal properties in the Jordan River. I doubt it. You say, no, there wasn't nothing medicinal about the water. maybe there's a regeneration that water caused you. No, it's just H2O flowing down the side of the hill there. He said, no, none of that.

I think that's a legitimate illustration. So what? So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan, like he was told, seven times, not six. You said, what if he had said, look, what's this seven times going under the water coming up, going on the water? I mean, one would do it. I mean, they said, Father, what did the prophet say? He said, well, he said seven. He said, why don't you just do it and see?

Well, he dipped himself seven times as the man of God had told him, carrying out instructions, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. Here's the only reason I'm reading that. It's a story of God healing someone because of their faith in what they were told to do. But you have to carry out the instructions. do what to get rid of this, if it would remove a physical limb, what you say? Well, my point is- It could remove your sin, and that's why when they said, what do we do?

Well, now we've got the prophet, Elijah, talking to her own, talking to her own Aiman. The prophet said, go dip seven times. So he dipped himself seven times. What, what's this seven? But I think people are going to hear you say that and say, well, say, it's all about faith, carrying out instructions. But I'm saying, where the argument is, you're saying, where the argument is, you're going to argument is coming out is because when they hear you say that, like when I hear you say that, they're immediately saying, well, you're saying your faith saves you, not the blood of Jesus.

The instruction following saves you not. Your faith in the blood of Jesus. What I'm saying is that explanation is where all the problems is coming. That's why I said his faith was actually... No, that's where all the solution is coming. His faith was actually surrendering to the will of what God laid out in the... in the instruction. Because God did the healing.

Because God did the healing. If you take God's healing power out, you're not going to be. That's the point of the story of Namath. That's right. Well, I know, but I'm just saying the semantics of what we say.

So what if you had to go down in the closest river instead of the Jordan River? I think it's a bad question. I think it's an excellent question. I think it's... Would he have been cleansed if he said, well, this river a day. But I think that question is why the same question. that people ask will say, well, do I have to be baptized to be saved?

I'm looking, I'm reading, we're putting it all together. What the fact, why don't we just do it? Do what he said. And quit saying, well, what if I'm driving to the baptistry and I have a heart attack on the way? Well, that's the dumbest question you could ever come up. You're alive. You hear Jesus and you say, what? You're on your way to the Jordan, but you didn't quite make it.

What if, what if don't base your faith on hypothetical situations and try to put God in some kind of box? You know, the thief on the cross, you know what happened? He realized who Jesus was and you know what he did? He surrendered. And you said, well, he wasn't baptized. Well, he wasn't in a position to be baptized. He was hung upon a cross fixing to die. And, you know, Hebrews 11 and 12 addressed that.

what about all the people before Jesus's death and bera resurrection they didn't understand Roman 6 and you could reenact it my point was though the underlying factor of baptism was the same thing the thief on the cross had he surrendered read he surrendered his will his pride so you got grace and the response to the gospel read roman 6th why you got it and we'll wrap up with that we're way over time let's so your quick story was about 14 minutes this podcast is It turned into a mini-series. We'll pick it up next time. We're going to pick it up next time.

We obviously didn't get to John 3, but we're going to. Well, we introduced it. We did. We introduced it. We did. We got there. We talked a lot of stuff. So anyway, if you stay tuned, tune in next time.

We're going to dive in a little bit deeper. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or Facebook. And be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast. Thank you.