Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 717 | Phil’s First-Ever Phone Call with Missy after 30 YEARS & Jase Needs Advice on a Bad Habit

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

The guys expose the bad phone habits of all the Robertsons, and Jase is shocked that he’s been doing it wrong his entire life. Phil finally has his first telephone call with Missy after 30 years of being her father-in-law. Zach and Al found ways to work around their family’s quirky phone behavior long ago. The guys compare the focus points of John the Baptist’s preaching to those of Jesus’ preaching and examine the anointing woman story in Luke 7. Jase and Al point out the customs of the day and their bearing on the significance of this story.  In this episode: Luke 7, verses 36-50; Romans 3, verse 23; Romans 6, verse 23; Psalm 51 https://philmerch.com — Get your “Unashamed” mugs, shirts, hats & hoodies! "The Blind" hits theaters Sept. 28. Get your tickets TODAY before theaters start to sell out! https://www.fathomevents.com/theblind — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right. Welcome back to Unashamed. We know this will be a little bit later. It will be after the fourth when you hear this podcast. But for us, we're recording it the day before July the 4th. And so we're still talking a lot about our big event. We had yesterday at WFR, which is our home church, as well as Jason and Missy's estate. It's called the Logtown Estate. which is the oldest house in our parish, which is pretty amazing.

And they've turned it into like a bed and breakfast. It's a really cool place. And they basically just said, you know, invited America through Unashamed Nation. And we had a lot of folks show up. A lot of folks got baptized. The gospel was kind of, I would say, the central core. And the girl that does our Unashamed Nation on Facebook, She was in town last week and it was really amazing to get.

I hadn't met her yet. So I'd met Steve, but I had met her. And she did the announcements for us yesterday, which is really kind of cool, you know, just a connection. And she talked a lot about the church and celebrate recovery and what that meant to her. So it's just kind of a, it was a cool thing, Zach. I mean, it was really neat to see Unashamed Nation get to be a part of what we're doing at our church and also in Washington County and just getting to support that. So we appreciate everybody coming. Yeah, that is cool.

It was funny. I had somebody there with a little booth because y'all had booth set up. So Beth set up a little table where we sold T-shirts, the one that Phil's wearing. We sold out. But we had the one that we were selling. And she said that they kept complaining about it because she said we have to come up with a bearded addition because the, the symbols, the gospel symbols were too high up on the chest of the men's shirts and their beards were covering.

They said, you got these in a beard edition? And I said, I never thought about a beard edition t-shirt. But so I'm going to have to rethink our t-shirt designs to make sure they account for long beards that cover up our graphics. There were a lot of men with very long beards. I mean, in a lot of cases, I felt like, you know, a little psychiatrist with my little starter beard compared to some of the people that were there. Do you notice that?

I don't know. I didn't, I didn't notice. but I just saw a lot of beards. Yeah. I just thought it was some of the boys. Some of the boys met up. I think it was some of the boys. Well, I'll tell you this.

We had a first I laughed last night about this. And because Missy was like, I think that was the largest, you know, crowd that we've ever had because we do events there. You know, people do weddings. I was like, oh, yeah, that was for sure. But she also said, well, you know, what happened. This was a first for me. And I was like the first, I mean, here's my wife. I won't

say how old she is because, you know, you're not supposed to do that. But she did say that there was something happened in the proceedings and it was a first time ever. And she revealed it to me. And I was shocked at what it was. She said, through the course of planning this event, I had my first phone conversation with your dad. I said, really? You've never had a phone conversation? That's right. Well, we don't have to say I know she is,

but you have been married 30 years, so it's been at least 30 years. I noticed it, and it's a story about I never take or give advice to your wife. You never do that? Is that why y'all never had a phone conversation? Leave it up to you. You married or not me.

Yeah. She's a good woman. So I was interested to see what Phil's take on the conversation was I was like, well, how did this happen? And she said, well, she planned the event. And so she had, you know, my daughter and her camp friends led worship, which they did spectacular. I mean, you know, you're talking about Warren the Soul. You're talking about trying to find hope for the country. We had a little team of, I mean, six or eight teenagers.

and early 20s who were just, who planned and did the worship. And it was fantastic. I mean, these people are going places from a voice perspective. But so she was, she had me speak. You know, we did the gospel on the porch, which I thought that was a great idea. We did that the whole event. But she was going to have Phil pray for our country after I spoke. So she called down there.

And just to, you know, ask if you would do that. So, but Kay answered the phone. And you know how Kay is when she answers, well, that's like a roadblock if you were going to talk to somebody else, you know. Because she's like Kay just started, because Kay, anybody that's ever talked to Kay on the phone, when you call her, she almost starts mid-conversation. and it's like you just saw each other, but she didn't. But she said that went on for a while. And for some reason, either Kay swallowed a bug or she, something happened to her voice and she could not talk. And she started, you know, saying, Missy said she just, she was saying like, water, water, water.

We've all been there. So she said, Talk to Phil, which is the whole reason Missy was wanting to call anyway. So it was almost kind of a weird providential event because that's what she was calling for. And so she asked you if you would pray after that. But I was like, well, was there a lot of yep and nope?

She's like, oh, was from his end, that was the entire conversation. She said, I would say something, and I would get a yep or a nope. And I was like, well, that is having a conversation when I fell on the phone. And I said, did he tell you by? And she went, no, I didn't realize the conversation had ended until your mom cranked back up. Kay found her voice. It sounds like something that you study.

Oh, we laugh, we laugh. I don't know why that was so funny. Maybe it was just, you know, knowing y'all, but I've noticed. But I will say dad's phone conversation, as he's gotten older, has become shorter and shorter. Because in the old days, people would call. And, I mean, sometimes dad would have a long conversation on telephone like other people do. But I've noticed as dad's gotten older, get to the point, well, what do we got? Yep, no, okay.

Bye. Yeah, it's a yep, nope, yep, nope. But then that led to another combustible arrangement that I've been married over 30 years and didn't realize it. Because she said, yeah, it's just, it's so rude when you don't tell me bye. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, you never say bye. And now I see where you get it from. I was like, well, I'm not saying bye because I'm going to see you.

later. And she said, well, say that. Say, see you later. She's like, you just end the conversation. So I didn't. And you wonder why I don't want to talk to your wives. Yeah. You're defining it right there.

Do what? So I didn't notice that I don't say bye on a conversation. So then I thought, am I supposed to say that? I mean, I was here to get advice. What is the protocol for that? See, she took by and decided that you were never coming back. No, I don't say bye. I just hang up.

That means you'll be back. Well, right. I mean, I usually say, well, she figured out. I feel better after all these years because I've always wondered every phone call I've ever been on with Phil, you or Jace, has ended very abruptly. And I'm always like, is it over? But I mean, I know it's over because I hear the click, but there was no closure. but now I realize that it's actually endearing that you're saying I'm going to see you again. This ain't it.

Yeah. No, I haven't been saying that. I thought I got to start somewhere and I thought maybe see you later would be a good closing. Yeah, because you don't want to have to go into the whole philosophical. This isn't really goodbye. It's just till we meet again. I mean, because you're just like. It's never occurred to me to say bye, bye.

I mean, I would tell a little kid that. I've ever got, the best I've ever got from any of y'all is, I don't know. I don't say bye-bye. You know? I never thought about it, but I mean, no, it just doesn't seem like something that's appropriate in that setting. But now that I realize that all of y'all have been offended over the years and have never said a word. Do I not do it either, Zach? I don't say goodbye either.

No, you say bye. You have, you say some form of, there's some kind of greeting. You know that conversation's over, right. Yeah, I mean, if you're lucky with Phil, I mean, but you got to be, this is a rare occasion. You might get at the very end, yeah, and then it's over. But you got like some kind of acknowledgement that like, you know, yes, we had a conversation. This is the end of it. But it's just like, yeah.

And then boom. So it's over. I think I hear. I say that as all right. All right. I'm saying all right as I'm clicking the in phone conversation. All right. Okay, I guess I'll work on that.

It'll be interesting to see Unashamed Nation chime in on that. Is it rude not to say bye? Well, and I use it even with y'all, even with text and all that. It's just I've learned just to be short and brief and get to it. Yeah, you've got to get it in there quick. Right. Zach's learned that too. So it's like we're unoffendable, but it is kind of.

of different. But I kind of enjoy it too, because if I do call any of you guys, there's never like, there's no like, um, ice breakers, which is I love. I'm like, let's get, let's, it's like, I know the expectation is if you call, then give me the reason, get it out quick, because I may not stay here long. I'm just like, let's see how I'm offending so many people. Because when people call me and say, well, how are your tigers doing? I immediately respond with, what do you want?

Because I, you're a small talk around here. Why are you calling me, ask you, you can go look that up. Now you're getting my, you know. Yeah. And I was, to me, hello. I'm like, no. No, you don't say hello. I say, yes.

You want something to say, you've called me. Yep. Something on your mind. I do the same thing. You're going to testize me. You're going to say great. You're doing great. You're doing great.

You're following? I'm saying yes, and I'm waiting on whatever. Okay. Yeah, see, see people who say hello, I don't get the hello. You know who it is. It's caller ID. Yeah. Well, that's right.

You're right. You don't have to announce yourself anymore, but I called dad a few months back, and I was like, you ready for your lesson tomorrow? So I knew, you know, you just charge right into it, right? You ready for your lesson tomorrow? He said, yep. He said, who is this? Well, it's better than Sa'i, because Sa, the first 10 years that I saw him on a phone, he got out of the military, he had a problem.

I've shared this before, that psychologically he thought the further away this person is from me, the louder I should talk. So he would be real loud on the phone. And I'm like, why are you hollering, sir? Why are you hollering? But he never would say that. But then I realized that in his mind, technology, he's thinking, well, they're in Mississippi. So I really need to talk loud so they can hear me. And so finally I confirmed him about it.

We had a nice argument. And then he started realizing that it doesn't matter. As long as we can hear you, the distance is a non-factor. That's funny. And that's classic size. It's because he's spending a lot of time in different places around the world. So you want to get into Luke 7? I think we left off it.

I think we left off. We decided because of the two stories in Luke 7, the faith of the centurion, and then this, which I thought was fascinating, Jesus raising a dead person, which this has only happened, like we said, three times, I think, were in the Gospels. where someone was raised as a miracle, which were, you know, a temporary nature, because these people all died later,

but it just introduced the idea that this is possible. So I really love that story in Luke 7-11. It's the only time it's recorded. It's not in the other Gospels, but it's a small town called Nain. They approached the town. A dead person was being carried out, and I told you about the historical aspect of it.

When I visited Israel, the modern day name is just a real small community, but it's basically a lot of caves and a graveyard is what it's known for. So it makes sense. And the large crowd from the town was with her, and the Lord saw her. his heart went out to her and he said don't cry you know we made a big deal about that jesus is the only person that could get away with that and then he went up touched the coffin and those carrying it stood still and he said young man i say to you get up the dead man sat up

and began to talk and jesus gave him back to his mother they were filled with all and praise they praised god a great prophet has appeared among us they said god has come to help people, this news about Jesus spread throughout Judea and the surrounding country. Then we're going to skip this next paragraph about John the Baptist because there's a lot in here. So we may have to do two on that. Well, when you get down to verse 36, one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him. So he went to the Pharisees house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the

Pharisees house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears, then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them, and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisees who had invited him saw this, he said, if this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is, that she's a sitter. Jesus answered him, Simon and I have something to tell him. you tell me teacher so he tells them a parable two men owed money to a certain money lender one owed him five hundred denari and the other 50 neither of them had the money to pay him back so he canceled the debts of both now which of them will love him more simon said i suppose the one who had the bigger debt

you have judged correctly then he turned toward the woman and said to simon do you see this woman I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman from the time I entered has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.

Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little. Then Jesus said to her, your sins are forgiven. the other guests began to say, I'm on themselves. Who is this that even forgive sins? Jesus said to the woman, your faith has saved you. Go in peace.

A lot in the story. In my opinion, it's sort of the continuation of what he did back in Luke 5, which was back then it was a leper and a paralytic and then a tax collector. He kind of continues. Luke does the same theme because, as Jason mentioned, it was a Roman centurion's servant, which is not only a Gentile, but then a servant of a Gentile, which these are people that you wouldn't associate with as a Jewish rabbi, the widow and her dead son, and then, of course, this woman.

So my first question of this text that I had, because, you know, when you first read it, you wouldn't really know, but once you kind of see Simons, who's the Pharisee, his attitude, the first question I had was, why would he even invite Jesus over? to begin with because there had to be a reason why. So, I mean, because it wasn't just because he obviously thought he was great. He may have thought he was great, but I don't know. What do you think? I think it was the hoopla that he was stirring.

And it's like most religious leaders, if there's a hoopla, they want to go check him out and see if he's official. I mean, that's a terrible thing to say, but it's just the way. Or it could be a setup. It could be the old, you know, keep your friends close. your enemies closer. So I've always kind of thought maybe this was in some way. I mean,

these guys seem to be like they were constantly trying to trap Jesus. So it's kind of hard. You know, I'm going to, the motive I'm going to assign would be probably more some kind of trap, just because I see that in the character of a lot of the Pharisees. And you see him doing that a lot throughout. Yeah,

I think both of those would be applicable. I think it's safe to say because of the way he treated Jesus in a setting where a host had certain responsibilities. it certainly wasn't because he loved and respected it. No, I agree with that. Or he wouldn't have treated it in the way he did. No, he was in their culture. I read a book one time.

I wish I looked it up. I didn't know we were going to go down this road. But like written from a guy who lived in this culture, who's a believer. But this was one story he brought up that it was like, because it wouldn't mean much to us, I guess, if you invited somebody over to say. supper and because you wouldn't know we don't have these customs about entering the house but in their culture that was that was like a sign of i don't i don't like you i mean i'm gonna let you in because

i'm supposed to and supposed to be hospitable but i'm not giving you all the bells and whistles of so he he would have been somewhat uh it would have been more tense because he was not rolled out the red carpet is I guess. It's interesting that verse 29, chapter 7, all the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus, the words acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. So at least even though the spirit was not given until Jesus died was resurrected, John's baptism was a baptism of repentance.

The Pharisees had experts in the law rejected God's. purpose for themselves. Because they had not been baptized by John. I think he makes a point of that, that people who are not in a mindset of repentance. If it's just trying to work to bad news, give bad news. When the Pharisees had invited, he saw this, he said to himself, If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is,

that she is a sinner. I mean, they're like, you know, we're not sinners, but that's the opposite what's going on here. No, it's a valid point. And we're going to get into that when John the Baptist, because you have this statement that when he says, no human, there's never been a greater human born of a woman than John the Baptist, but he who's the least in the kingdom is greater than he. Well, people don't understand what that means. They're like, well, do what?

It makes no sense. But to your point, John the Baptist was predicting the kingdom. But even being outside of the kingdom's arrival, you could be as close to it as possible, which John the Baptist was, but he actually wasn't in it. So to your point, he was preaching about, repentance. Everything was like, you know, turn or burn here. Yep.

And so then when a Pharisee sees this, he's like, well, that's not the type of person who's in. Why are you, you know, they're wanting to draw a line. Their problem is in here. Well, exactly, which is complicated to explain. Yep. But I think that's a valid point. Yeah, I think the question that's coming up here really is this question of who. who gets to touch Jesus?

Like who gets, if this guy is a son of God, what kind of person is he going to associate with? And the first person that popped in my mind when Phil was reading that from the old test, and it was David, a man after God's on heart. And if you remember the story correctly,

he has an affair with Bashiba. Caesar bathing on the roof. He goes after her, pursues her. I mean, he like plans it and plots it. I mean, there's like no way out of this.

He goes and has a relationship with her. She gets pregnant. But what does he do? Instead of repenting, he just doubles down on it. So he tries to get the husband, your eye, to come back. And, hey, I want you to go be with your wife. But he has so much integrity that he won't do it. He sleeps out with all the other soldiers out front or all the servants out front.

Next night, he gets him drunk and tries to send him back over there still. This guy's high integrity. David obviously didn't have that in that moment. And then ultimately, when he refused to sleep with his wife so he could blame the pregnancy on her, David sends him to the front line, pulls the troops back, and basically murders him. And then remember the story with Nathan, the prophet came in and was like told him, told him this whole story that basically outlined him, but told it like it was somebody else. And the scripture says that David just burned with anger. And he said, you know, we need to kill this guy. He needs to pay him back however many fold.

and Nathan's response was, you are that guy. And the reason why I bring that up is because I think, man, this is a guy who he was a man after God's on heart, but he obviously had a ton of sin. He had a huge debt before God, like just like in this story, he had a huge debt. And when confronted with his sin at the moment that Nathan confronted him, he could have justified it. He could have killed him. He could have whatever, but that's not what he did.

He fell on his face before a living God, and he repented. I was going to read this in Psalms 51, which is the Psalm of repentance that David wrote. Before you read that, let's take a break. I don't know this is long, but I think it makes such a good point. I won't read all of it, but he says, wash me. He asks him to judge him not based on what he has done, but based on God's loving kindness. So he's asking for a different type of judgment. He says, judge me based on your kindness and compassion, watch me thoroughly for my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin, for I know my transgressions.

And my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only have a sin and done what is evil in your sight. And then when you skip down to the end of this, he says that, he says, you don't want sacrifices. God doesn't want your sacrifice. He says the sacrifices that are pleasing to God, not the burn offerings, not the sacrifice. sacrifices. You don't delight in those. Otherwise, David said, I'd give them to you. You're not pleased with burnt offerings. Listen to this, though, verse 17 of Psalm 51. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart. Oh, God, you will not despise. And I think about,

like, that is encouraging to me because it's like, God does not ask me to perform anything before him. All he's asking for is that broken in contrite spirit. And I think that's the point of what Jesus is getting out here. He's flipping the paradigm on these people because they missed all this. These Pharisees, they probably read Psalms 51 a thousand times, but they had not let that sink in to how they responded to God. God is he wants a broken spirit and a contract heart. That's what he does not despise. And I think that's what Jesus is trying to get across here, you know, to no avail to No, I think that's such a smart point, Zat, because David is a great illustration of representing both the people in this story. He was the Pharisee at one point, the hypocrite, as you described.

But then when he got when he was broken, finally, because he recognized his guilt, he became, in Psalm 51 is the, he's the woman in this story. I mean, he's at the feet of God and he's like, there's no other way. Lisa and I call it, we talk about Psalm 51. we call it truth vomit because he just pours out his soul about who he is when he recognizes it. And you can't stop it. And so it's a beautiful picture of actually showing that you can be both. You can be Simon and you can be the woman at different points in your life. And David's a perfect example of that.

I think it's a great illustration. Yeah, Psalm 17, he goes before the Lord. And the psalmist is asking God to judge him based on what he is. done. He's like, I've not done anything wrong. You read the contrast. Dad did this in the sermon yesterday. The contrast between Psalm 17 and Psalm 51 is like, when he gets to Psalm 51 and his sin is ever before him, he's not like, hey, judge me based on what I've been doing. You know, I've been doing a lot of good things here. He's like, no, do not judge me based on what I've done. Judge me based on your compassion. And I mean, it just shows the character of God in in that Psalm. And then, and

it shows how we can respond to God. And as someone who is full of sin, I thought, man, that is encouraging that God's not going to judge me based on what I've done. He's going to judge me. My sacrifice is not what I'm bringing to him. It's the way in which I'm bringing it to him. Yeah, that's good. Well, I think they, you know, he, when he told the story, he basically said they both

owed sums of money and they both had the debts canceled. And really, you know, that wasn't his point. But the more you're going to read Luke's accounts of these, you're going to see these same kind of principles. You remember the story of the prodigal son, which really should be titled the loving father or gracious father. Or running father. Yeah, you had one in the pig pen,

but then you had this older brother in the house, you know. So you know who he's representing, who couldn't participate in the joy of reconciling. reconciliation because in his mind he had a self-righteous spirit kind of like a Pharisee. And then you have Luke 18, which I think is the best parable on this, where you have the Pharisee get up. This is 9 through 14. And he's like, you know, they went up to the temple to pray. And the Pharisee got up and said, I thank you, Lord, that I'm not like other men, robbers and evildoers and adulterers.

and even like this tax collector. You know, I fast twice a week, give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector, he wouldn't even look up to heaven. He beat his chest and said, have mercy on me, God. I'm a sinner. And then Jesus says, I'll tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled.

And he who humbles himself will be exalted. Which goes back to this Luke 6, and the qualities of the purpose, prideful versus the quality of the humble. I don't need you is not, that's, that's the position you don't want to be. You don't want to be. That's why pride is the greatest. I don't need you. That's the.

Yeah, is the greatest. Which is what this woman, what this woman had ran out of. I mean, I think about if you're in her situation and you're coming into this setting, I mean, you got to think there's got to be a great level of intimidation from her, you know, heart part because she's thinking, man, I go in here and just get totally rejected by him because of who I am and what I've done. And especially in the face in the room with Pharisees and all this is going on, it's like, you would think that Jesus would be like, don't touch me. Like, I despise you. I'm repulsed by you, which we can all relate to that with our own sin.

It's why we don't come to God because we're like, man, if I go to God and I expose my sin to him as if he doesn't already know it, right? But somehow in our mind, mind, we pretend like he doesn't know it. And man, if I really went to him and exposed this darkness in me, then he would despise me. And that's just so encouraging that God, the scripture says that God does, that is not what he despises. What he despises is an arrogance that is a refusal to bring out. If you bring that to God, he will not despise it.

He says he promises that he will not despise a broken spirit and a contrite heart, no matter what you've done, no matter what wickedness is in there, God looks at that and says, I don't despise you. It's the same principle of the planks, you know. You're trying to get something out of someone else's eye, and he's like, you've got a telephone pole and yours. And it's not the amount of sins. It's the condition that if you have any sins, which all adults do, then you're hopeless. You're helpless. There's nothing you can do. The situation is dire. you should, you know, look at all means possible to do something if there was any way out from under this, because you're not going to be able to do it.

And I think that's the same type of principle he's doing. I wanted to talk about a few of the controversial things of this passage, because this one is not read, you know, a form of this story is in all four Gospels. But this one doesn't seem to fit with the other three. Yeah, a lot of scholars think it's actually definitely two different. different occasions. Some think it's the same one told a different way, but you're right, Jay. I read a lot about that in the study of this. Yeah, me too. The difference in the two. What's easy to miss, God made Him Jesus when he's talking to these Pharisees and the people

that are in and out. God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. In other words, they're going to have to, at some point, say I'm a sinner. Exactly. I think that's the point. Look, it's a, I mean, most religious people get this right, but I mean, you must realize the dire straits of your own sin and the debt that is owed. And whether you're a believer or not, someone, those consequences of those sins must be paid in some form of another.

There's thousands of illustrations that you can use for that. somebody's paying whether you're forgiven or not think about it you seein that was ever committed from everybody up and now we're looking at about seven billion people on planet earth the whole load are sinners well all of them so how do you pull the ones who are sinners without faith in jesus and without not being like these Pharisees right here well exactly yeah if you you rob a bank or whatever, and, you know, it's against law. They'll catch you, and what if the banker said, oh, we're going to forgive you. Well, all the people's money that is gone, you know, if they said, we're going to forgive you

and don't worry about it. You don't want to pay us back. Yeah. Well, all the people that had their money stolen, well, they want justice. You can forgive them all you won't do, but I'm out of my money at, you know. And it just gives you a picture of the idea. to a holy just God, that's where the problem lies. And you have to realize you're way worse than you think you are.

I'm not even saying you acknowledge you're a sinner. You're worse than you think. Yeah, or as you said, man, I have a hard time seeing that. If you want to know how you can see yourself worse than you really are, another way of saying that is he's way greater than you think is. And so your reference point, I thought, well, I had this conversation. conversation just this morning because someone that our church is asking the question, you know, why did he have to die?

And why did Jesus have to die? Which is, I think, a very good question. But I've thought, I've wrestled with that. Why couldn't God just snap his fingers and then we're all just in? You have to die or wipe them away. Yeah. Well, that's one thing, but there's other. There's other things.

Go ahead, Zah. Yeah, I mean, to me, it goes back to this idea. You mentioned of justice. and the first thing that pops in my mind when I think of justice is there, that statue of the blind lady, the blind scales of justice. And she's, it's like she's,

if she's blind and she's got two plates on each side of her hands as she holds them out. And then there's a chain that goes up to the top. And the idea is if there's an imbalance in that scale, then that's injustice in the way that you bring that justice as you make it even. So if you break my window, well, that's a crime. You committed against me. You need to pay for the window, a little community service, and, you know, we're even.

But, but what if you, what if you murder my child? Well, then, you know, I mean, then the punishment, the crime has to, the punishment has to fit the crime. And I think where we have a hard time understanding with God is, why is my sin worthy of death? You know, Romans 323 and Romans 623. You talk about this a little bit. And I think that the reason, I think the reason why that is is because you're, you, you, you have to compare yourself to a holy God who is infinitely good and infinitely glorious.

That's who your sins against. So you, the distance between you and him, that scale, that chasm, that, that imbalance, it's infinite. And the only sacrifice, you can't pay it. The only sacrifice that could pay it would be a sacrifice that's infinite. And the only thing that's infinite is God. And so that's why God had to die. for us. That's why he became a man. I agree. It was at 100%. You can't, if you're going to have a God, not like we invented this one, but I'm just, let's just give people who don't believe,

you know, some, some thoughts here. If you're going to invent a God, well, and he's going to be holy, he can't like 10,000 years from now, all of a sudden think differently about evil. if he's infinite and he's holy and pure well if we all got to heaven because this is what happens in human life everything can be rolling along but guess what just wait for it and somebody's going to screw up everybody's going to get mad you know this is just the cycle you watch movies you see the rise of celebrity and what happens and the agony of defeat it just always ends it just doesn't end well so God's not, he can't all of a sudden change his nature and coexist with evil behavior. That's why there's a separation when we sin. You know, that famous verse in Isaiah, sin separates us from God. Why? Because he's holy.

So who moved? We moved. That's why to the human race through Jesus and all of the ones he hired to go preach the gospel to their death, that's why it's characterized as a mystery. It's so profound. It is a mystery. Well, how does this powerful of God, how can he suffer and submit and surrender? Well, he can't.

He's too big. He's too. That's why. So when I read that first Timothy 6th in our last podcast, I think it was the bonus time. Because it was the crux of my presentation at the Faith Family Freedom Day. There's an obscure end of that phrase in the end when he says he's the eternal king of kings, Lord of Lords. And then it says, and he lives in unapproachable light.

Well, that's kind of scary. That means we can't approach him. And there's a chasm, one, from our sin, and there's a chasm of power. And so you say, well, if he's unapproachable, well, how am I supposed to approach him? And that's where Jesus comes in. Because here you have a God who doesn't have these qualities that is needed to save us. And I mean by submission and surrender, because what is he going to surrender to? He's so unapproachably powerful and beautiful and glorious.

and the famous C.S. Lewis line in mere Christianity who goes through all that. It's not in his nature to do that. But if he became a man, now all of a sudden we have the possibility of suffering, of surrendering, of submitting. And so you see where I'm going with this. That's why Jesus, the Son of God, became a man to save us and become the bridge Because you can't have a relationship if we're separate. You know, it's like a couple.

They say, well, let's separate. Well, I can tell you this, and I'm not a counselor, but I know this. Unless you reconvene at some point in some way, you're never going to have that relationship again. Either somebody going to have to write a letter or you're going to have to see each other. Somebody's got to make a move. There's got to be a move. The point is he made the move. All this prep in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all that prep.

is getting ready for the writers who went to their death, the Apostle Paul and Peter and all of them. I mean, when they started out, I mean, it was in lieu of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and Jesus was here and answering all these questions about sin. You know, it just, it's explained in detail time after time. Every letter. You start backing up and see you have to get together to have a relationship, but you also go before that.

You have to have a choice to have a relationship. and you have to have restraint. Because think about it. If I choose to be married to my wife and she goes along with it. But if there's no restraint, which is where sin comes from, well, what kind of relationship is that? Well, it's not going to last long if I'm not loyal to just her. She's going to say, what do you thought? I thought you loved me.

And I've made a choice to not show restraint, you know, with other women. and what happened? Well, that is sin. I mean, actually, as it is, but she doesn't, she feels betrayed. So then you're like, well, how are we going to repair all this?

And now you're getting an innocent, sinless God and human body being sacrificed, blood being shed for unrighteousness. I mean, he came up. Yeah, because the infraction, the infraction against God, is there is, when you look at your situation, there is no way to make it right.

I mean, you have, you don't possess, the penalty was too great. That's right. I mean, the crime was just, it was just, it was so great. And you mean, you may think, well, it wasn't that bad to me. Well, no, but you sinned against a holy God who was infinitely good and infinitely loving. And when you mentioned earlier about, you know, God not violating his nature, yeah, I think that's important caveat that, we should, you know, God can't do anything. Like we, I mean, he can't violate his own nature.

Hebrew 6 says he can't sin. And there's certain things God can't lie. He can't lie. He can't lie. Yeah, he can't lie. He can't. It's not because he lacks the power. It's like these things are incoherencies.

They don't, God can't do what God cannot. He can't be not God. I mean, he just can't. And so I think when you look at our position in him or away from him is that we've sinned against him. And that, and that isn't, there is no way to pay for. that. I think these moments of what, like, David went through when he was confronted with his sin, he knew there was no way to make it right. That's the whole psalm. I mean, the whole psalm is,

I got nothing. I mean, I got one move. In my move is just to say, I got nothing. And God does it all. And it's the same kind of spirit that this woman had and the woman at the well. I mean, all these people that Jesus loved on, it was like, it was never the people who had all the sacrifices is set up right. And it was never them. It was always the ones who had no sacrifice other than that broken spirit and can try heart. Well, to your point,

the person who asked you why Jesus had to die, so yesterday, when I was on the back porch doing my gospel presentation, and there's a few hundred people listening, I opened it up to Q&A, you know, after, which in hindsight, probably I shouldn't have done that. Because the first couple questions were just like controversial, religious questions.

You know, one of them was about the women's role and another one was, you know, why did preachers say that God told them to do something? And the only reason I'm bringing this up is because I answered them, but I said, look, you have, Jesus has to rise above this, you know, I said, we've done podcasts on that, we discussed that. But we're talking about who, you know, how you view Jesus. Well, the next question was, well, why did Jesus have to become a man? And it was the the same question that really, Zach, was opposed to him. It was just done differently.

And I quoted, because we were studying Luke 7, I quoted this verse 49, or 48, that says, then Jesus said to her, your sins are forgiven. I said, the reason we bring this up is how can a man be saying, your sins are forgiven unless he was God. And it was just kind of, it was kind of, everybody just went into a hush. And I was like, you're taking for granted a human could make this statement. That a red flag should go up and say, wait a minute now.

How would he be able to say that? And that's what riled them up because they're saying, who is this? who even forgive sins. Well, why is Jesus doing that? And it's the same view in reverse on why he became a man. He became a man to come save us. So he could suffer. So he could be sacrifice because of his love.

But he's also saying that to say, I have the ability to do this because you sinned against me. I am God. There's a God and you're looking at him. And that's the difference. And that's why Jesus is the king. of kings. You know, only he has that kind of authority because he's sinless, he's eternal. He can fix these problems that we can't fix. But part of that is you acknowledging how low you are.

You cannot fix it. So there's always a temptation that even when you're forgiven, because this doesn't go away, you know, out of the church. There's always a temptation that when you get your life, when he cleans your life of all of a sudden you start saying oh well i'm pretty good i think i'm so good then i'm not going to associate with mere sinners and because most people believe that this was the town prostitute do you agree al that this that she had lived it doesn't say that but it says when you say she's lived a sinful life i mean it had to be something everybody was aware that she had lived a sinful life. So, yes, the assumption is she was probably a prostitute.

Well, and I read, I got this from Tim Keller, which I agree with him. You know, when him looking at the culture, this flask with the alabaster jar perfume, you got to remember, this is a culture. They didn't have air conditioning. You know, there was no deodorant. I mean, so just think about this. The life of a prostitute, part of that lifestyle, was having something where you smell good.

It was part of the job and it was very expensive. And so it was basically he projected, this is her livelihood because they wore them like necklaces. And that's how you knew who a prostitute was. They had an expensive jar of perfume on their body because they're trying to lure men to make money. And so she does a couple of real scandalous things that make people uncomfortable.

That's the reason that when they preach on this story, they don't preach Luke's verse. version because in their culture, when she let her hair down and was crying, well, that was grounds for divorce in their culture. If a woman let her hair down in public. And the reason is, because that's what prostitutes do. And so here she is in this, which is very uncomfortable, I'm sure, to this Pharisee, because you're like, you realize this is a prostitute letting her hair down in public. putting perfume all over your feet. This is some kind of weird thing that I don't want to be a part of.

He's thinking this is a scandal. I don't know who you think you are, but no religious person would be allowing this to happen. No one touched feet except for the extremely lowest of low servants. I mean, that was just another DED. You never did that. So you're right, Jason. It's even scandalous, you know, how much is there?

Well, it is. And the reason he's doing that, and this story is in here, to show utterly that God is and can redeem everyone. And the one great quality, and you see this even in, look, I'm involved, you know, I speak at Celebrate Recovery a lot of times, but there's a lot of religious people. They wouldn't be caught dead in there because it's uncomfortable. These are new Christians who have had really terrible decisions that have happened in their life. But they're very emotional, and they do things like this. They make you uncomfortable. Some of them are not dressed appropriately, you know, and you're like, well, I can't

even believe you'd go in there. But when you read this story, you realize, look, this is who Jesus is for. We're just as bad. It's not the how many and which one. You have plenty of verses to support that, even with the plank in the eye. that, you know, James said, if you're guilty of one, saying you're guilty of breaking all of it. How can you make such a statement? Because you're in the same condition, but you're just hiding it around, you know, what Isaiah called, you know, dirty rags because, you know, you're wiping the sin off.

But you're, it doesn't work. You're kidding yourself. Yeah, you can't possibly remove it. So we're out of time. But we do want to talk a little bit more about this. got a good sermon. I've been working on listening to you guys talk and I want to talk about that. And what really is the biggest, most amazing point in the whole thing we hadn't even gotten to yet from Luke chapter 7. So we'll talk a little bit more about that in our overtime segment, blazedtv.com slash unashamed if you want to sign up and follow us on.

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