Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 732 | Willie & Jase Wage War in Suburbia & Poor Jase Gets Blamed for Everything

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

A party on Willie’s patio reveals new developments in the war that he and Jase are waging over Willie’s stocked pond. Phil can only shake his head at the shenanigans of his sons, but Jase feels like he’s the scapegoat in every family situation. Larry Bowles joins the guys to discuss the deeper meanings of the biblical event known as the transfiguration and how the life of Jesus mirrored the lives of Moses and Elijah, the other two men involved in the event.  In this episode: Luke 9, verses 28-36; John 6, verse 15 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We got Zach back in the house. Zach, it's so good to have you back. We've missed you so deeply. It's a team effort, guys. It's a team effort. I'm just glad you're alive. I mean, I was beginning to wonder. You weren't answering my phone text. I haven't seen you. We were getting messages only from your assistant, which that's when you're just one step away from no communication. Is that making you mad too?

Where are we out in our relationship where I seen you a text and your assistant texts me back? What is that? We're no longer family. Once we get assistant to assistant, there's no more family interaction. There's a little embellishment going on here, guys. Just so y'all know, I return your text. I call you promptly.

We had, well, because you did. You called me a few times. We worked out a few details on a few things, right? That's true, but I mean, what I'm saying is the next time you text me, my assistant will get back to you as soon as possible. Just for funzies. EOS you one step-harm from the assistant. No, but, Zach, we were giving you the benefit of the doubt.

We know you're working really hard to get our movie out there and everything you're working on. So we appreciate what you're doing. Well, that's me, Zach. If the movie comes out and everyone likes it, it is our movie. But if it's not, I'm going to say, I don't know what. in the world. We turned it over to Zach.

I tried to tell him. I don't know what he did. I'm nervous about that, actually. I mean, I thought about that. I mean, we gave him a goal mine, you know. See, that's what I thought. I thought he was, I thought you were practicing your escape plan because I have not heard or seen you in weeks.

And we've done at least, well, podcasts without seeing you. And I thought, to be fair, you all have done, you guys have piled in a lot of pot. We don't normally do this. many in two week period it's been it's been a lot we've been working ahead jace has a well you're blaming me for all this but look we all have have things going on we do and the podcast uh which we all love it's just it's hard to get everybody together on on a frequent basis yeah because you got a lot of moving parts here the only one that's pretty stable is dad he's pretty much here he's dad's not

I'm out on the wing from what we do here because people will, and I mean, when I say come from great distances, great distances. So they come down and we ended up by saying, if you want for us to baptize you, here's a few texts you can think about. And they've already heard the gospel, we've gone and all that. so they understand the gospel. And we just say raise your hand. Right.

And every week there's somebody that raises their hand sometimes up to 15 or 20. Yeah, one. To the water we go. There were 50, I think, July 2nd. So Dad does the Unashamed Bible class every Sunday at WFR, which is great. And you have that opportunity if folks want to come. So live you say you want to come down and I always say, hey, come to WFR. 3201 North 7th Street, West 1,0.

We'd love to have you. Yesterday I preached and I had to come in, Zach, and apologize to Maddie, who's our producer, who we love. And Maddie's from Arkansas. And yesterday, in an attempt to level someone that had made a joke about me being fat a few weeks ago from my own pulpit. So I went after him, but I wound up throwing the state of Arkansas under the bus. So I had to apologize to Maddie with my joke. I had kind of a joke bit about Arkansas yesterday.

Yeah, I heard them. It seemed like they were a little cheesy. Yeah, it was like preachy. But your sermon was great. You were trying to find an icebreaker. It was an icebreaker. So when in doubt, make front. Well, my preaching partner is from Arkansas, and we all love him.

But let's face it, he's Arkansas through and through. So, you know, sometimes just got to humble him. But anyway, we had fun with that. Of course, when I walked in, Dad said, Al, looks like you've been eating good. That was his opening line to me yesterday. Have you gained weight? Well, no, I've actually, I've kind of just been the same,

but it's just not going anywhere. Well, I think that keeps everybody with thick skin. That's exactly. You can't laugh at yourself. Well, and I heard that they were throwing me under the bus on the other podcast, on our sister podcast, on Duck Hall Room, about my weight as well. and it was John David who lost some weight back during COVID because he got real sick. And I call those guys F-square.

They're former fatties. And they're the worst about making fun of other people. Once you've lost your weight, then you just go around throwing everybody else on the bus. Which they lost by getting sick. They didn't even lose it through. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, your diet was a COVID diet. Yeah, come on, man.

Yeah, those guys. So next time I go on there, I got some things to say to. of those people too. Well, I had an interesting day yesterday, so I finally had a day off because it was Sunday. And I decided to go check out the new fish plan for Willie's Pond. But the problem was... If they restocked it? Oh, yeah, they restocked it, and I heard, you know, everybody, that's the, that's what everybody wants to talk about.

That's the scuttle butt, you know. What is the new plan and what happened to all the fish? You know, because Willie, he's given detentance, as we all know. So he was going to have a trophy bass lake, speaking of weight problems. That was the main factor on the transition. I just found this out today because I thought I had participated in a miracle yesterday, but now I'm starting to question. You're saying what happened to the fish.

The word the scuttle butt I got in the neighborhood was that you and Jeremy Shackleford caught all the fish. Yeah, that's what... And ate them. That's why I'm bringing this up. So, because when in doubt, when they don't know what happened, blame Jace. He caught all the fish. And Phil, how many times have you heard people say that about the Wastaw River out here?

Oh, yeah. They're like, oh, there's no more fish. You never catch them on. Somebody caught all the fish. Well, I know who, Phil and Jace Robertson. So then I move up town. You're so good. You caught all the fish out of the river.

Willie puts a thousand white perch in his pond, and he makes it this giant lake. And when they go down and can't catch any fish, they say, well, here's the problem. Jace caught them all. That's what they think. Not at all. So there was another work in theory that when they tried to make it a trophy bass pond, I'm like, I got an idea on where your panfish went to. these 13 pound bass that you have. I ate them all.

Yeah, what are they eating? Because, I mean, I'm catching 10 and 11 pound bass on a jig. And I'll take a picture with them and I'll throw them back. Yeah, nobody's... And I caught one that had a pound crappie in his mouth. I had visual evidence of that's what was happening. So they're off that. They're off the...

So you've now straightened out that rumor. So the reason I thought it was a miracle, because yesterday when I went out there, I was under the impression that they drain the pond and then restocked it. But, of course, I found out today that wasn't exactly true. It did fall down just due to not raining for a while a couple months ago. And then they'd shock the fish to see what they had in there, you know, but they didn't see any big crappie. So I was like, okay, well, I don't know if they die, but I didn't catch them all. I just caught enough to eat for about a year.

I mean, two or three at a time. You didn't even put a den in. No, that's what I said. So when you know it, I go down there yesterday, the only time I've had time to go check out, because they put 1,500 new crappie in there. And so I wanted to see what size they were. So I go down there.

Well, they're having a party when you know it at Willys, outside. So, of course, I notice he's looking at it from across the way. It's hard for me to set this up. He's probably got a telescope in his house. Oh, yeah, I'm sure that they were... He's glaring at you. He's glaring at you. They were binoculars, and they're all like, well, there he goes.

He got wind of the new crop. He's going down there. So it was actually great because every time I would catch a bat, I caught 10 bass, and I was real noticeable since they're 300 yards away, I guess. How far are they away? 200 yards? Yeah, a couple hundred yards. So I would like take the bass and put it...

I'm on the bridge of the pine. And I would like throw it out in the middle of the pot. It's like every time I caught one, because that's all I was catching was bass. I was like, look, catching release. It's not me. Watch this. I was over-dramatized and everything, you know. So about 30 minutes into this and the 10th bass I caught was where I normally

catched your crop, all I was catching was bass. And then all of a sudden, boom! Well, I'm like, I thought it was a huge bass. No, it's a, I would say a two and a half pound croppy. Wow. And I'm like, this is not what they just put in here. No. And it didn't, the ones they had had before had like a black line on their back from,

and they all were about that size, you know, from the last time I was careful. Well, this one didn't even have that. And so I'm like, I thought they drained this thing. It's a miracle. This is a miraculous cat. I have caught a two and a half pound croppy where there should. wouldn't be a two and a half pound crappie according to all this intel. So now I didn't, at this point, now I'm like, ooh, can they tell?

After all the bass, because I'm not throwing this back. So I like got, made myself as small as possible. And I eased over to the little ice chest that I had in the bushes that I slipped him in there. And so then I went back. And then I caught two of their new ones, their new ones, which. were not quite big enough to eat. You know, I won't go back there. Now, I kept them and I ate them.

But I made a mess. Not big enough for the average person, but you were able to get meat off of it. Well, what happened was? Yeah, they're little, just, they're just kind of scrawny. They grow quick. But the first one I called him the new regime,

because I told Missy, I was like, look, if anybody asked you if they saw me yesterday, On the second one I caught, he swallowed it. And so he was going to die anyway. So what are you going to do? Yeah. You got to eat him. He was dying.

Well, now the third one I caught was a little smaller. Well, at this point, I've already got to have a mess. I've got to have three to eat for the wife, you know. So I'm trying to make this night as special as possible. So we got to have some for her. So that's my story. But it turns out it wasn't a miracle. because they didn't technically drain the pot.

So you just call with it. The fact is, the reason I'm telling you this, I didn't catch all the fish. Not at all. I just caught a two and a half pound croppy. Maybe you're not catching them because you don't know how to fish. So Jace is not only denying the allegations, he's denying the alligator is his point.

Well, I wish I would have known that. But you say, well, what spiritual, you know, we try to make some kind of spiritual application to this. And the spiritual application is there has to be some truth in here. You know, rumors start swirling and everybody's emotional about all this and stories are going everywhere and accusations, who caught all the fish. The bottom line is, if you don't fish a lot, you don't know what you're talking about. So I'm trying to be a man of the fish and get the pulse of what's happening down. A man of the... You can hear all kinds of stories in subdivisions.

Dad, that's why you don't live in subdivisions, right? That is part of it. You always count on dad. That's why I don't do that. All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back from our break, none do we have Zach back, welcome back, Zach. But also, our old friend Larry Bowles,

is in from Oklahoma, and he was doing some teaching this week at the church. And so he's going to join in on our conversation in Luke chapter 9. So we're super excited about having everybody here today. It's going to be a great podcast. So buckle up. We'll see after the break. So welcome back. We've got Larry Bowles. Welcome back. Thank you. First time you and I've been in the studio together in forever. In a little while. Usually you're here preaching, which means I'm in Alabama. Right. And so you're usually sitting here with these two guys. And I'm telling you, things are go a lot tighter when you're in the room. I'm just going to bear witness.

I'm so appreciative that someone I appreciate that. That long distance thing sometimes just a gift to this podcast. Yeah, that is true. So yeah, but Larry's been in town teaching our staff, our church staff, some great material I heard about prophecies of the Old Testament. Yeah, just understanding Messian. You know, Larry is a whiz, because Jay's calls me the Old Testament expert. on our podcast just because I've read it.

No, that's not. I've actually read it. Look, you have all these that you remember stuff, like little details. Right. That I just would view as a complete waste of time on most things other than the Bible. Right. So it comes in handy. I do have a deep wealth of information that has no value.

He's right about that. That's right. But my biblical Old Testament does well for me in this context. Yeah. But what I was going to say was Larry really is because his mission work really depends on being able to show Jesus from the Old Testament. Yeah, and I didn't really choose that, but I got forced into that because people that come out of Islam don't accept anything in the New Testament. Correct. I think it's all been corrupted.

But what they do hold dear and believe fully. is the Old Testament scripture, especially the Psalms and all of that. So messianic prophecy is where we begin. That's interesting. I was somewhere where I had to do that. I think when I went to Israel, because I was talking to our guide. And every time I would say something for the New Testament, he's like, no, no, no, you can't use that. So I was like, oh, man.

Well, it's not a problem because everything in the New Testament has a prophetic voice in the Old Testament. Well, by the end of the trip, I figured it out. I started taking the quotes. Same questions applied. So when Jesus says all of this is about me, you know, I mean, and in Luke 24, it's beginning with Moses and all the law and all the prophets. And he explains every scripture that pertained to him in a seven-mile stretch of road on that road to Amas.

I would love to have heard that sermon, man. Wow. And as you pointed out, we were talking on the way out here, it ended with a meal. Yeah. True. A little kingdom meal at the end of that session. Broke the bread. Broke the bread.

Resurrection afternoon. Well, that's what I said. I think the whole point of all that, post-resurrection, because I've been asked that when we were in, where was that in Luke 5? You mentioned this yesterday in your sermon. When they had a miraculous catch. Yeah. And Peter said, go away from me.

I'm a simple man. That was kind of your point. Yeah. Well, in our podcast, we talked about when that happened in John 20, same scenario, except Jesus had been raised from the dead. Yeah. So to me, I took that to mean, this is a picture of what we can experience forever. Yeah.

I mean, why go through the meal and the, I mean, he didn't have to eat fish to stay alive. He just proved that. But he ate with his disciples. Yeah, right. Post-resurrection. And there's something about that that really just cuts me to the heart. I mean, because I want that understanding of how we can fellowship and live together forever. Yeah.

So it's a beautiful picture. And I think it was a picture of restoration and communion together in a meal. And I made the point yesterday at my sermon kind of as a warning, because I was talking about the 12 disciples. And I was kind of, you know, painting a picture with those guys that Judas. as bad as he was and what he did, he had an opportunity. When he chunked those 30 pieces back in there, he had an opportunity to say, you know what, I blew it. He was standing at a crossroad.

He was. Let me go fall at the feet of Jesus, and Jesus would have forgiven him. But he didn't. Instead, he chose to turn away from restoration, and it cost him his life by his own hand. So, I mean, just it is a warning, really, about the evil one if you give in. And our response to failure in our own frailty and weakness. I mean, understanding that we absolutely are in need of a Savior every single day, not just at one point in our life.

And I've said this before, that we think that we're going to have one conversion experience in our life, and that's not true at all. We're going to be converted a thousand different times in a thousand different ways. Which really leads us back perfectly there to this text, because whenever Peter makes the confession, you remember then Jesus gives them a picture of what that looks like. And part of that is a denial of yourself in a daily. He says, take up your cross daily. Deny yourself and then pick up your cross. That's right. So the idea is that that's an action that's not a one-time action. That's an every day. Every single day. Yeah. And that's, you know, when we're talking about the messianic,

prophetic voice in scripture. And what we're about to discuss here in the transfiguration are these types and foreshadows. And we see Moses and Elijah show up and there's, man, this is just cosmic stuff going on in this moment. But the idea that manna is one of these things that is meant to preach and teach dependency. And so every day I have to go gather him because the Jesus I had yesterday is worms and maggots today. I can't store it up. I've got to be dependent on him all the time every day. Yeah. Yeah, I made the point, I mean, you're, you are a couple of chapters behind us in your sermons.

Right. But so he chose the 12. Then he sends them out here in chapter 9. I think I made the point that I feel like the first eight and a half chapters are kind of highlighting who Jesus is. This is, he is the coming king. He is the son of God in human form. And then it's like, it's a transition on. I mean, that's still going to be a common theme all the way to the cross and the resurrection, of course.

But then it's like kind of how his disciples responded to that and how that was received on what this means. So much of his teaching from this point going forward, and especially leading up to Jerusalem, is a, there are a lot of tests involved for them, including sending him out. I mean, it's like, okay, are you getting this? because now the time is drawing now that he's not going to be there anymore. Right. And he's going to turn the whole thing over. John recorded, they still, I mean, this is looking at the empty tomb, seeing the raps.

There's Peter and there's John. They still did not understand from scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead. As many times as he said, sit down here a minute. Let me tell you what I'm fixing to do here. Going into Jerusalem. Everything that's been written about me is going to be fulfilled. It was a hard sell. They just had a different.

I think what's hard for us to wrap our minds around it is because they had seen him raised people from the dead multiple times. And so you're thinking, but I mean, in fairness. I think I would have said you can't kill him. We would like to think that. But at the same time, they were scared. They weren't sure exactly what he was supposed to be doing as the new king. So I think it was just a lot of doubts.

I love in that resurrection moment, he opens their mind. minds so that they can understand the scriptures. And that's exactly what we're talking about. And there are a lot of things that they did not understand, even when they saw him in that resurrection, but after the Holy Spirit comes, then man. Okay. So now I have the capacity to understand all of these Old Testament scriptures. Yeah, the resurrection too. I mean, it's one thing to look at a guy that's raising people from the dead. But then when the dead, when the dead razor says, I have, to also die and be resurrected. That's just a different.

It's a whole other level of, I mean, it just seems like defeat, you know, not the resurrection part, but when you think about your miracle giver is like, I'm going to go to the cross. I mean, that is, that had to, I mean, they had no concept of that. I mean, their concept of the Messiah and the kingdom,

I mean, Larry, you probably speak of that, their perspective from an Old Testament prophecy. When they read these prophecies, they were, I would think, it seems like they thought, this was going to be a conquering kingdom from the beginning that wouldn't ever go through any type of suffering because it was like this was the time. When death comes to anybody, everybody that's either seeing it or it happens to, you don't,

you don't see them come back. Right. I mean, everything you see die stays dead until Jesus Christ rolled in. And, you know, Luke 24, rode to Emmaus, there's Cleophas, you know, and he's like, Well, tell me what you guys are thinking. He's saying, well, we were hoping that this guy was the one. It was going to redeem Israel. And they're just in utter defeat because now, you know, he's gone to the cross

and they've seen him put into a tomb. And this whole third day thing that Jesus tells them three times just in, you know, in the gospel of Mark, just right in a row, they can't wrap their minds around that idea. I made the point in the last podcast, something I had never noticed before, this, this Jude, was it, the Galilean? The one that's mentioned in Acts chapter 5 by Gamal. It was Judas the Galilean or James of Galilee. But anyway, he was the guy that was led a revolt. And I didn't realize until I read that again that revolt would have happened when Jesus was a young boy, about 10 or 11 years old.

Okay. And when I read the particulars that they had crucified 2,000 rebels, four miles from Nazareth, wow. I mean, it really struck me that the little boy Jesus saw his future up close and personal. And, you know, it really hit me in that. But, you know, Gamal's argument was, we've had these people rise up before, and you cut the head off the snake, and then the whole thing dies away. And so he was making the point, because they were trying to figure out what to do with Peter and John. He was like, look, let's don't do anything.

Let's just let it play out. We've already cut the hat off the snake. Right. Was his mindset. Of course, what they didn't realize is there was no snake involved. What they had done was what was supposed to happen, and the Savior of the world had now given his life. And this movement was about to take off. But in his defense, he did say, if this is from God, we can't stop it.

But if that hadn't happened within a time frame, if people hadn't have written, that down, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. If they had not written down what they saw and what they heard, I would have a tough time believing it. Yeah. Yeah. In other words,

everybody had a tough time. The writers had a tough time with it. Yeah. But if someone listening, what if they hadn't had Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John written down and... Which is why we do. And the same one that wrote Acts, wrote... It would

really thwart what happened. That's exactly right. So Jay's, I want to get back into the Transfiguration, because we did, you and dad and I talked about in a podcast, but we got Zach and Larry here, so I want to get their take on it too. But you told me yesterday at the church building that you had a epiphany. So we're going to leave with your epiphany, and then we'll just, we'll play off with that. Well, just to bring y'all up to speed. So we had, look, when Jesus sent out the 12, we talked about that, then we had this, feeding of the 5,000, which from everyone thinking that this king who was going to lift the oppression from a Jewish perspective, if you were looking at this from a cliff somewhere, you know,

like Willie was watching me catch fish yesterday, you would have thought, oh, they're assembling the army. You know, here's this guy. Jesus, there's 5,000 men and he's giving them training and you're trying to figure out if there's weapons involved. And to your point, you said this before, even the ones being fed, according to John, thought they were formed in an army because they wanted to make him king by force. Yeah, that John 615 was a key passage to that. And I told them about a sermon I heard from Keller where it was about the makings of a revolution. But it wasn't like the Beatles,

you know, you say, you want a revolution. Well, This is something... Easy listening. Whatever we thought was going to happen is not happening. He's... Because what does he do? He gives them teaching and he gives them bread. Right.

And there was a symbol. You mentioned that about, you know, going back to the man of God providing, this bread, because later on he would say, you know, I am the bread alive. And he was broken. This is the I am moment out of that. Yeah. So we could be saved. It's not an earthly kingdom where you're killing everybody.

so you can rule. It's like, I'm going to suffer, I'm going to die. And so he asked the question, and I know I'm getting to the Transfiguration, but when he asked Peter about who do people say he is, well, they start bringing up, you know, these prophets. And it's like once you get to the Transfiguration, you're like, oh, wait a minute here. He's a prophet, but he's more than a prophet.

Right. And the reason you see that, is because just when you look at his appearance in verse 29, it says as he was praying, which when you think about that this, what's fixing to happen is happening as a result of prayer. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.

Well, we read this and spent two podcasts talking about various things, but we didn't talk about that flash of lightning. No. So I looked this up. I'm going to give you some fun facts about how we're trying to figure out Luke's point here. But when you think about lightning, every day on Earth, I was going to see if y'all could guess this. How many lightning strikes are there a day? You want to take a guess?

A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. I would say. Somebody's figured out an average. I would say like half a million. I'd say north of that. Three million. Wow. Three million.

So a lightning straight is the equivalent to 100 million light bulbs. And the flash is four times that. Yeah. Four times a million light bulbs and one flag. Oh, 100. million light bulbs. A hundred million. Yeah, you remember the Christmas vacation, you know, the light.

Yeah. Oh, you know, and the whole town goes dark. In the nuclear auxiliary. Times that, times 400 million. So I actually learned that lightning is actually four times hotter, a flash of lightning is four times hotter than the sun. Wow. That's concentrated energy right there, man.

So also, if you, the speed of lightning, 270,000 miles per hour. And the flash is quicker than that. So if you were going at the speed of lightning, you'd be at the moon in 55 minutes. Wow. That's pretty good. So you think, what were they seeing? Well, the only thing they could come up with is a flash of lightning. Yeah.

So whatever this energy was. Just a few weeks ago, we had a bad lightning storm in Gulf Shores, and one struck. And it was, you know how you count to, it wasn't even a count. Yeah. It was like, it was that close. Like all in the same time. Look, it was so bright, I turned away. Yeah.

I turned my head when it was that close. So for a second, Jay's, and look, when I called. closed my eyes, I just saw white for a bit. It was right there. I had one hit probably 30 feet from me. I was under a porch roof and it was a gravel driveway and I saw it hit and rocks flew up. And I just, it was, it all happened in an instant. You know, you never knew if it hit you, you would never know it. That's right. Yeah. And it's just all instantaneous. And man, I just remember, I don't remember hearing the sound, but I remember I could not see for a minute. You know, it was just like a flash bulb. Well, the reason I'm bringing this up.

Why did he put that there? Well, that's what I'm fixed to make the point here. So when you look at, you know, they're asking, is this Elijah or is this, who are the other people? John the Baptist or. So when you look back and see that. Some other private. You see the imagery here. You got, you know, a cloud's going to move in.

And when you go back to the Old Testament and remember that Elijah, you know, he fed 100 people. Was it a thousand or a hundred? We read that when we were back there. Was it the prophets when he was the ravens were feeding him? Yeah. So he. Obadi and some of the prophets. So which is why there's always like Elijah just come back.

You know, and they're like, well, no, that's John the Baptist. Or maybe it's like Moses. But you remember what happened on Mount Sinai? You're seeing the same type of imagery. Mm-hmm. But the difference is, you know, back then you were not allowed to see the face of God. And you remember that, is it Exodus 33? Y'all are the Old Testament wizards.

But, you know, he's like, well, you can see my back as I go. Yeah, I'm going to put my hand behind you and hide you in the cleft of the rock. While I pass by, you can see my backside. Yeah, so let's take another way. So my point is, here's these disciples in this moment, and here's two guys that hadn't been here for however long. They seem like they're back in working order. Right.

And you have this imagery, you know, using a flash of lightning, and I just gave you a few fun facts about the power. And none of these people are dying while seeing this. Right. And there seems to represent, you know, if Jesus is claiming to be the son of God, you're seeing something now that there's a way maybe to be in the presence of God without just incinerate, incinerating. Of course, then you, I think that's why Peter brought up, though, do we need some shelters? Because in the Old Testament, and when this imagery was happening, you better, there's a system that we have to go through for the presence of God.

And so I think he was probably thinking of his own protection. So I just wanted to bring that out and let y'all discuss that y'all are smarter than me about the old testament. You think about the structures they had in the Old Testament were, well, first the garden, but then the tabernacle and then the temple. And how did God's presence manifest in those places? A cloud. You know, it's a cloud. So you get the transfiguration while he was speaking.

A cloud appeared and enveloped them. And they were afraid as they entered the cloud. A voice came from the cloud saying, this is my son whom I'm. I've chosen, listen to him. And when I read that this morning, I was thinking, I can't remember which theologians said this, but they said they interpreted the entire Bible through the lens of atonement, pretty much their whole life. And in recent years, they said, you know, I learned to interpret the Bible through the lens

of God's presence being primary. And God's atonement of sin is a means to an end, but it's not the end itself. the end is being in the presence of this. In the presence of God. That's what the presence of God was all about, you know, in the Holy of Holies and everything else. The curtain is now, God is no longer living in a box.

He's out, you know. Yeah. So I agree. I think Jason is on. I agree with you. I think it's like this. And I think it's what we're looking for in our personal lives, too. Or what you're ultimately looking for is presence, intimacy,

availability. Like, that's what, like, that's the thing that we, or looking for us. Because, I mean, what is eternal torment? It's separation, eternal separation from God. And it's the antithesis of that idea not being in his presence. And that's, you know, when you get to Matthew 25 and here's Jesus, the son of man sitting on his glorious throne, he's going to separate, you know, like sheep from goats. Well, that's what a king does. He either allows you into his presence or he sends you out of his presence. And that's kind of that. And I hadn't really thought about the other structures, too, but if you think about it, Moses, even post mountain, because he was glowing when he came down just from having God come so close to him.

But, you know, when he would communicate, he had what he called a tent of meeting. Right. So it was a tent away from everybody else. And the only other person that was allowed in there was Joshua. And that cloud would come down and envelop the tent. Moses would have a powwow with the Almighty in some form. He would come out. and then Paul would talk about it in what, St. Corinthians 3, when he came out, he was glowing,

and he put the veil on there to show that because the glowing was fading. Right. And he didn't want the people to feel like God wasn't with him. Right. And so it was an interesting thing that Paul talks about. But the idea of a structure in the presence of God, even then was the idea. It was separate. So that's a good point.

Then he said now, you know, with unveiled faces. Yeah. Correct. So it's like Jesus made this, I mean, to me, this is a moment where, God came down. And he recognized him first at his baptism. He said, this is my son, whom I love, I'm well pleased. Well, now he's like, this is my son, whom I love, I'm pleased, listening to him.

Yeah. So when you read Hebrews 1 and Hebrews 2 or just, you know, the whole book, you start to realize Jesus is better than Moses. I mean, if this was, and it gets back to that word we used when talking about his departure here and I don't know if you are familiar with this you probably are but I made a huge deal about this in verse 30 and 31

when it says two men Moses and Elijah appeared in glorious splendor talking with Jesus they spoke about his departure and that Greek word is only used three times and it's Exodus. Eschus ascension Yeah so Exodus but when you think about the meaning if you look at it in the book of Exodus,

it was a, they're locked up and they're liberated. Brought out from darkness and light. Yeah. So, you know, I read an article by this guy named McLaren who he's been dead 100 years,

but it was fascinating because he was like, the word Exodus is, it's you're leaving, but you're also arriving. And so when you look at what Peter said, which is the second place, that it's mentioned.

When Peter said in Second Peter 1, he's referring to the Transfiguration, but look, he uses the same word Exodus when it says in verse 15, well, in 14, he's talking about his own death because he was old when he wrote this. He said, because I know that I will soon put it aside as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me,

and I will make every effort to see that after my, Well, here's the is again. Exodus. Exodus. Exodus. You will always be able to remember these things. And then he says, we didn't follow cleverly invented stories

when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. But we were eyewitnesses of His Majesty. And we heard the voice. Yep. And he goes into the Transfiguration. It's like as he was writing when he used that word Exodus, it took him back to the transfiguration, which is very cool. And he's also validating that we didn't make this up.

Right. I might have been sleepy. Right. And my eyes are blurry, but I saw a flash of lightning. And he goes on from there to explain that this is the voice of prophecy that has been played out in front of him. And it is the Spirit of Christ in these prophets carrying them along. And you've heard me talk about, you know, Jesus quoting Isaiah. And he's not, he's quoting himself, quoting Isaiah.

quoting himself. Right. And so like I said at the beginning of this, there's so much cosmically going on in this transfiguration. And it's hard to lay out. But I mean, the very fact that you've got Moses and you've got Elijah and you've got Jesus. Let's start with the three shelters. And so here's Peter, comes two out of this stupor.

And it's like, hey, I've got an idea. And that's our boy Peter, man. I mean, he's impetuous. He's ready to rock and roll. And he's like, how about we put up three shelters for you guys? And he's thinking, man, we're going to do like the Disney world of Jesus right here. This is going to be everybody's going to come. And in mid-sentence, God does kind of what he does, you know, when he fills the temple with his glory and everything stops.

And he does it with Job. It's like, Job, shut up. I'm going to talk. Listen to me. And he just stops him in that incapacity. And it's that presence, that cloud that covers him. And it's almost because, I mean, Peter's looking at this as like, okay, here's the law, here's the prophets, and there's grace. All in one place.

This is total religion. And God stops him right there and says, no, no, no. That's my son. Those two guys are not equal to him. Yeah. This is not going to be. These are not three equal things that you're looking at. He's the fulfillment of the law and he's the fulfillment of the prophecy.

It's Moses and Elijah. That's it. Okay? And so these are types. And so when you talk about who was Moses, well, I mean, this goes back to Deuteronomy 18. Moses says the Lord himself will raise up a prophet like me for you out of your own, this is messianic prophecy. And think about all the things that Moses was. He was a prophet.

He was a priest. He was a king. He was, you know, the anointed one, a mediator. of God's chosen, you know, all of this kind of stuff. And then all of the parallels that, you know, he was, Moses was tried to be being wiped out by a king and the killing of the children. And Jesus had that same parallel. And you think about the Jesus right in here, sending out the 12 and then the 72.

And you think of the numbers 11 when Jesus appointed, I mean, when Moses appointed seven elders in that ten of meeting. And God said, I'm going to take some of the spirit that's on you and I'm going to put it on them. And we see Jesus enabling his disciples to go out and right before this, you know, to heal and have the same powers that he does, some of anyway. And all of these parallels are just so much going on right here. We made the, let's take our last break. We made the point, Larry, that even down to a little thing like Jesus breaking down the crowd that he fed into groups of 50 was similar. to what Moses did in Exodus 18 with the word from his father-in-law that, you know, you're killing

yourself trying to lead these people. And so he said, break them down into smaller bites, all the way down to groups of 50. And it was the same deal. So those archetypes are all the way through. Right. And the same thing on, on, you know, here's Elijah. And I mean, wow, just it's so amazing because right before this, they're talking about John the Baptist. And Jesus is saying, yeah, Elijah did have to come again. And who is Elijah in this? Well, you look at Malachi chapter 4, the last word of prophecy out of the Old Testament before this 400-year silence, this intertestimental period, that this voice of prophecy is going

to be broken. And when you're into 2nd Kings 1, and we were talking about the fireballs coming down. Oh, yeah, I read it. We read it on a podcast. Yeah, I think it should be a movie. Oh, I think so, too. But look at verse 8. The captain and the 50 men.

The captain in the 50 men. That next captain said, wait a minute. Yeah. There's fireballs raining down. Okay. Some humility. Right. And so when the king says, who is this guy telling me that, you know, I'm going to die here on this bed?

And they said, well, his name is Elijah. And they describe his physical appearance. He is wearing camel skin clothes and wearing a leather belt. Yeah. This is Elijah. And so here the voice of prophecy is broken, and this one, you know, calling out in the wilderness, wearing camel skins and a leather belt and eaten locusts. And the whole Judean countryside is coming out to hear him not because of necessarily what he's saying, it's because of who he is.

And they recognize this voice of prophecy has been broken. And they're going to hear it. That's exactly. And so, yeah, it's an amazing fulfillment of every. everything Jesus said on that road to Amas, beginning with Moses and all the prophets, every scripture concerning. And what was this prophet? What was his prophecy?

It was that there's somebody coming whose sandals, I'm not fit to wear. Exactly. You know? I must become less and he must become greater. So I wanted to finish the third place that word is used, this Exodus. It's in Hebrews 11 in verse 23. So it says by faith, Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones. And you say, why are you making such a big deal about this?

So the reason Hebrews chapter two talks about chapter three, I mean, chapter three in Hebrews, talks about Jesus is greater than Moses. And all the way back to chapter one, when it says, to your point, Moles, when he says, in the past, God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways. I mean, that's sacred kings one was quite interesting.

Right, and we didn't know that was foreshadowing Christ. Exactly. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The sun is the radiance of God's glory, which is why I came up with all the lightning fun facts, because that's how they, I mean, this is,

talking about God's glory. Yeah. Whatever they saw was almost too much for the mind to comprehend, but they could see him and not die. Yeah. And so even though in a spiritual way, he just said, I'm going to show you the plan,

which is, to suffer, die, be killed. You know, there's various ways he describes that as he goes on. And then I'll come up three days later. And then it's like, and then you basically are going to follow that same pattern. You ever wants to save his life. We'll lose it. I mean, he showed us the way to victory. And it was the exact opposite of the way to victory in worldly kingdoms. Right. It was, all other kingdoms are, will kill you. You either. assimilate or die right and here is jesus saying i'm going to be broken for you you're going to be broken right for others and this is the way it's going so i make this whole connection though

with that word exodus because when he said in luke right above the transfiguration you know which led to luke sharing this moment he said i tell you the truth some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of god well he just had said that that Jesus would die you know he said I'm going to die suffer many things in verse 22 be rejected by the elders chief priest teachers law and I'm be killed and on the third day be raised to life and my point is the reason Jesus is better than Moses is that yes the Israelites were liberated they were freed but what Jesus is bringing is a cosmic liberation. That's right. You're liberated from sin and death through what I'm

fixed to accomplish. Unfortunately, the disciples had a hard time grasping that. Because you don't get a couple paragraphs and all of a sudden they go to Samaria and they say, hey, these people don't believe what we're saying about you. So we got Elijah, I saw him. Let's get the fireballs. Let's nuke them. Nuke them now. Yeah. So which is how they are looking. at it. They're still looking at it in a physical way. Hey. They missed the kingdom of God. They did not understand. Even the whole, we went through Mark, the whole thing about the temple all the way through Mark. And in this part here about this cloud, this presence of God dwelling in a temple. And what's going to happen is Jesus is going to institute a new temple. And it's us. It's our

bodies. And we are the new temple. And when I read that verse when he says, basically, this is my son, whom I have chosen, listen to him, I could not help but think of John 16. When Jesus said, it's good that I leave, because if I don't leave, he's not coming. But when he comes, he's going to guide you in all truth. In other words, listen to him, the Holy Spirit. He's going to take what's mine and make it known to you. So there's like this full summation. He's going to open your mind so you can understand the scriptures.

Exactly right. He's going to take what's mine. He's going to make it known. You mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast, about the role of the Holy Spirit. I mean, but when's the last time he said, this is my son whom I'm well pleased. The Holy Spirit was present. God, the Father was present, the Spirit was present, the Son was present. Right.

And I think even in here, when we talk about this revelation of understanding the Old Testament prophecy, not just that, but everything that is Jesus is, he says, the Spirit will make that known to the believer that he dwells. Absolutely. Just power. So we're out of time. That went fast. It is. And before we got overtime, I have one. factoid about lightning that I'm going to share that I saved on purpose for our loyal members in the overtime.

And we learned something from the French about lightning in the 1700s and it's riveting. So if you want to get that riveting bit of French information, follow us over to overtime. BlaisTV.com slash Unashamed is where you go to get our overtime segment. So we'll see you there. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to blazTV at blazestivet.com slash unashamed.