Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 733 | Phil Manipulates Jase into a 3-Hour Wild Goose Chase & Jase’s Lottery Confession

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

Jase owns up to his lottery experience, and even though he didn’t win, it sure is fun to think about what he’d do with the winnings! Phil manipulated Jase into a three-hour biblical wild goose chase at 9 o’clock at night. Apparently, mind games are something he’s made a habit of playing throughout his sons’ lives! The guys and guest Larry Bowles engage in a lively discussion of historical accounts that actually confirm, rather than disprove, the Bible. Larry’s special knowledge of antiquated biblical practices and events sheds light on how the past informs the present.  In this episode: Luke 9, verses 43-56 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Jay's, have you ever bought a lottery ticket? I mean, I knew y'all were going to go here. I confess my... You were talking lottery. He confessed his sins during the break in between the two podcasts.

Well, I got... I'll give you the context. So when the lottery got up to, well, it was like $900 million. And a buddy of mine, we got together and play cards. He went and bought 20, I don't even know what they're called. This is how unfamiliar I am without. It was Powerball. Power.

Yeah. So I thought you actually got little balls with numbers on it. They're like, no, you just get numbers on a sheet of paper that they run out of a computer. Then they put these balls. Not everybody got their own ping pong balls. I don't know. That's what I thought. You know, I missed it.

But so I was way off on that. So I said, and he said, if we win, I said, we, I didn't pay any money. I was like, do you, what, are you wanting to split it? Is this a temptation? He's like, no, I bought them for us. It's just, you know, it's a buddy of mine. He's cookey. He's saying you're in. He's like, you're in. And I'm like, okay, which then I was nervous because I thought, well, if we really win, I mean, 900 million, that, that's a lot. Yeah, that's going.

You're going to give me 400 million. $50 million. Because the government's going to take half of them. You paid for it. And look, so you know where he got me? He went where we're at in Luke, Luke 9. He's like, no, I'm going to pay the price, you know, for your benefit. It's like, you know, that's biblical.

I was like, okay, all right, fine. Well, I'm going to hold you to that now. So anyway, we lost. So, but the next time I saw him, I said, did anybody win? I figured since I didn't hear back, we might. must have lost. Yeah, that's one. If you would have won, you would have known, because that would have been the first. And for the record, you know, he said, well, we, we won $14, which I was like, how is that possible? He said, well, it's complicated. So, so he spent $20.

$1.14. Got me in it. Then we won $14. He didn't give me $7. Because he was down $20. Well, yeah. We didn't discuss that, but I didn't have. for the seven dollars. I thought that would have been a little cheap. Since he was willing to give you a half a billion dollars, you thought, yeah, I keep the seven. So the next time I saw him, generous. Yeah, seven bucks, that's too much. So, so then I finally took the lottery plunge. So some of our, our farceical listeners, well, they probably just turned to cross you off the list. Because I saw him because I thought, well, I'm going to be, I said, do anybody win it? He's like, no. I was like, so what's it up to you now? So what's it up to

now. It was like a billion dollars. And so I'm like, here's 20 bucks. We'll split it. Go buy some. So we lost. We didn't even win $14. You just lost 20. So we're negative. Would you at least admit, Jase, would you at least admit that that's gambling, though? I mean, because you said you don't gamble when you're playing a card. But that's, but that is flat out gambling 100%. However, I felt like it would be poor stewardship to, you know, a man that I have resources. And if it gets to a billion dollars, so now my wife is going to hate that I'm going to share this because I thought about this once I took the plunge with the $20. Because what happens if you win?

Because you're pretty lucky person. According to Sire, you're the luckiest person in the world. She said, well, you don't need, we don't need to buy a lottery ticket. I thought she's fixed and given me, I have my casting lot. ready for the, you know, for my rebuttal. I was like, hey, they cast lots. They gambled, you know, put it in the hands of God. But no, I wasn't going to do that for real.

But she said, well, the most miserable people on the planet are those who win the lottery. I mean, it's just a proven fact. 100% them gain weight, which we talked about that. So I don't buy a lottery ticket. I'm at my limit. I can't gain any more weight. Well, everybody's after the money. Then they pursue all this, these fit.

They think that they think that... Lot of them go bankrupt. Believe it or not. Buying new cars. They're going to make them. So I said, well, no, I've thought about this. Once I put the $20, I had to come up with a plan that I thought was spiritual. I said, I'm going to use that money immediately.

All the money will be spent. By the time the word gets around that I have it, it's all gone. It's gone. It never happened. Land, charity, kids, missions, it literally will just leave. Immediately. So that's my plan. Like it or I love it.

Cousins. What about cousins and brothers? By the time you figured out I won it, if you didn't get the call, it's gone. That's why I'm asking now. Before you win it, you did not mention brothers or cousins. You're going to know where you rate on Jay's list when you find out he won. Because if you're hearing about it in the newspaper, Duck Dynasty's James Roberts and won the lottery, it's too late. You got nothing.

Well, if he does win, I can promise you one thing. And I know about it, you will never call me and not get an answer. I will answer every time you call, Jace. So, y'all can send your emails to Zach if you want to discuss it. But I know the reason for my philosophy, I'm getting rid all that money, because I know Luke 6 is here. I mean, true greatness is found in humility. And Jesus said, blessed of you when you're poor.

Buster you when you're hungry. So, I mean, I'm saying, yes, I entered that arena, but I was going to put that money to use immediately, and it would all be gone. That way it would stop all the people from trying to come and get it, knock me in the head. And every frivolous story you've ever heard that may come up, and I would just immediately get rid of it all.

Well, I guess people have gotten a little bit wiser because I've noticed the last few that have won. You know somebody won, but then it usually takes weeks, before they form a corporation or whatever they're doing to shield themselves from what you're talking. Yeah, because I asked him when he bought it. You got to get a trust. Yeah. You put it in it.

You put it in a trust. That's how you hide it. Or you can buy it. Or you can buy it in Mississippi. Look who's been thinking about it. See, you've been thinking about this. He's got a whole game plan on the thing. But who's the, who's the spirit?

Where's the better spiritual reaction? When you said the word, hide it, I'm out. because sinful behavior is one thing and we need the cross to save us but the cover up is always we're going to do with it we're going to walk by and look at your pile of cash I mean is that what you're going to do

no love the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil he's right that's right exactly true so there you go I'm sure you know and what would that

happened to the guy that won the lottery, but that night his very soul was demanded of him. So, you know, better have it all worked out. Didn't we just read what good is it for a man to gain the whole? But I would agree with Jace. It would be fun to give that money. Well, I had that. Well, I had that. How.

People like Larry Bowles over in Athens. We have that gene in our heritage. And exhibit A, you know, my mom, and I was going to use you for an example. I mean, there is a fear out there that I brought up before that people have, and it's the fact that they, you know, would die and have money left over. They don't want that. That's right. And so my mom is one of those people. And she trained me the same way.

Our philosophy is the person who dies penniless is perfect timing. So, and so we probably will have nothing. There was a guy, I will say his name, a well-known guy. in the area of Westman Road. He told me one time, he's passed on now, but he said, my goal is to die $2 million in debt. So he actually wanted to die in debt. So he can just get them in the end, right?

He's just like, yeah, I want to die. You can get there. You can get that pretty quickly if you're not careful. Oh, yeah. You don't have to try to do that. I don't want to leave other people having to pay my debts. All right. So we got good news.

We're in Luke 9, and we've been talking about the, transfiguration man we got in some great stuff in the last podcast oh and i had a phone call last night this is my second phone call in i guess ever in but it's happened in the last two weeks that my dad had a phone conversation with my wife and now there's been two of them two in less than a month in less than a month that's correct because i was fishing and you know they tried to call me i didn't I don't take my phone fishing usually. So then Phil called Missy. And I think through Kay the first time,

but eventually he got on the phone because there was some confusion. And then he called her phone while we were watching a movie. And she's like, your dad is calling me to talk to you. I was like, bizarre a world. So I finally convinced Phil to use the internet. I mean, he wouldn't do it because he didn't know what that is.

But he's like, look up at Josephus and see what he had to say about the transfiguration. Yeah. I heard some guy on my way out Sunday morning to teach, to go to preach the gospel. And I heard him, he mentioned. Who was this guy? Oh, you heard him on the radio?

On a preacher. No, he's just one of his preacher shows. Oh, you're watching TV? Yeah, I just turned on. I just saw him. Usually some of them are preaching or sermon for about 30 minutes. so I just turn them on to hear what they have to say. Yeah.

But this guy was quoting Josephus, and I got to thinking, I said, you know, at the transfiguration, if Josephus at least mentioned it, this guy was saying he did. But you all did a little research. He did not. I have not found it yet. I will share. I'm not computer savvy, but I would like to hear somebody who was monitoring.

what was being said during the time frame when the kingdom of God first arrived. I just wanted to know, was anybody there to document that? Well, Josephus was there. Well, after the break, and we'll have a special guest once again. He's no longer a guest. He's just part of the team. Yeah, he is an unashamed podcast contributor. We'll have Larry Bowles after the break, and I will share the three

instances well there's a lot of references by Josephus because that call caused me to study this for about three hours last night you're welcome of course I knew how you rolled I said

let me put this on Jase because Jase is computer savvy I'm not but I'd like to hear of someone what they thought about when they were writing the script you know and no telling what All he had.

Well, for clarification, though, Phil, you misspoke. Compared to you, oh, I'm a computer geek, but I'm not computer. I'm way down at the bottom. I love that dad, even after all these years, still knows how to manipulate Jace. All he's got to do is plant that brainworm in there. Jase, I've got a problem I can't quite solve. And I've got at least a three-hour attempt. I tried.

To see what Josephus was up to while Jesus was there. I will give you the five. He's seven, dad can still pull it up. When Jace was young, he'd say, boy, look at Jace. He picking up all that weight, man, he's impressive. I know he was a Jew just from what I've been able to read. He was from around, we'll ask Bowles, he probably knows. He was 37 to 100.

So he was in the right time period. And I did find, I took out three sections, but one of them is very controversial. He was a Jewish historian. Yeah. So he's, he was documenting a lot of this from a Jewish perspective. That's what I wanted to see. He was not a believer as far as what I read.

So you have to take that. Yeah, it's a great. He wasn't like he was anointed writer of the Bible. But he was a historian. And, well, we'll talk about it.

Let's take a break. We come back from the break. We'll bring Bowles in and we'll get his take on Joseph. How would they know that? It's going to be. didn't really fit, you know. What I'm saying. Well, I'm going to read you both versions.

Let me get my present. I'm about to be riveted again. We're riveted. We're riveted. We're back on the podcast. We've got Larry back in the house. Larry, welcome again. Thank you.

You never really laughed. I never really. They're just sitting over there. I just step out and, you know, act like I reappear. That's right. Then we're like I'm in front of Congress at a hearing over. Testify. So start with this.

I'm being investigated. If you could have a little meeting, caught the time of the gathering, and Matthew was there. I said, Matthew, let me ask you something. I said, you were there during the time frame on all this, and you watched this go down. We got some people now that are quoting some guy.

He's not in here. We can't find him in here. But history says he was here. And his name was Josephus. Matthew, have you heard anybody? He's Jews. He's a Jew. Have you ever heard of him?

Then I would just go down the line, Matthew, Mark, Lou. Have you ever heard of this guy, Josephus? Well, but here's my point. I would just like to know because it... But Phil, it's not... We've heard of him. He's around, but he's not writing into the Bible. Josephus was not an inspired writer, you know.

That's right. What my point is, I did this three hours of research. none of this was overwhelming to me other than the fact that he does mention him but it's not like you know there's a lot of debate and most scholars took this excerpt that i'm fixed to read to you and said this looks like he said something about jesus but then it was influenced through the years by christian interpreters to make it more like the bible and so i'm just telling you, I'm just reporting that I took that to mean. If most scholars are saying, no, he didn't say that, then what I'm fixed to read to you has to be taken in that light.

These other two excerpts I'm going to read, all the modern scholars said, oh yeah, that's, because they're looking at his writing in a way more in-depth way than, look, I spent three hours reading through this. Well, this is an entire field of study. We're talking biblical authenticity and textual criticism. Exactly. In antiquity. And so when you're comparing, you know, biblical writings with contemporary writings of that same period.

Yeah, this is where Joseph is. Yeah, this is, I'm not qualified, but I'll just give you my 2000, 23 take on it. So this is the most. This is the most. But hold of a little, before, before you go there, let me just give one caveat. God. We'll now recognize this. This is a hearing of Congress, James.

We'll now recognize the representative from North Carolina. I yield my time to you. I think I will agree with what you're going to read, Jace, but that if you were to use the same scrutiny on any other work of antiquity, to Larry's point, that we would use for the Bible, or vice versa. So, like, people use the criteria and the level of critique and scrutiny and skepticism that people approach the Bible with as opposed to any other work of particular. It doesn't even compare. There's way more historical evidence for everything that the Bible talks about. This is one of several many extra-biblical sources that we can pull from, and not all of the quotes, to Jason's point, are going to be 100% accurate, but some of them are. I wanted to just set it up with that.

No, you're right. And some of what I read was on Wikipedia. Thank you, Senator. Someone what I read was on Wikipedia. And look, any one of us can put something on Wikipedia. I mean, it's on the Internet. This could be wrong. So take that for what it's worth.

So here's the most controversial, most talked about, most famous quote from all these writings of Josephus. And look, I could have spent three months reading all this. about Jewish wars and different things, which I skimmed a lot of this, but I just wanted to cut to the chase. Because you're cut to the chase, Jase. Thank you. So this is the Testimonium Flavianum. Flavianum. Let's just go with Flavian.

Testimonium, Flavian. Flavor. Let's go with the flavor of Josephus. Let's go with flavor. Flay. So about this time, there lived Jesus. a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man, for he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as except the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many

of the Greeks. He was the Christ, and when upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned it to a cross. Those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so-called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. So where did you go wrong? Well, where we went wrong is most, if not all, there's a couple of exceptions, view this Josephus excerpt that has been manipulated through the years from Christian interpreters, you know, from the language.

They said they added some of these nuggets to what he said. So I'm going to give you a second version of what I just read on what most modern scholars do think is probably what he said if you take out the Christian excerpts where they manipulated what he said. I mean, just think, Phil, if you're in a war in, you know, 1,200 or whatever, and Christianity is at stake, and you believe it in your mind. And you're trying to prove it. Well, you take, you could take something Joseph said and just add just a little bit and say, I mean, he said he was the Christ, you know. Because when scholars look at everything Josephus said, they're like, he wouldn't have said this.

So that's what I'm telling you. So what they can agree, they said he said something. He wouldn't have said this based on what? Just all his other writings and his belief and, you know, being consistent. Do they have old writings? I guess they do that you can read what Josephus said? Well, it's kind of like, yes. But when they translate, you know, we're talking about different languages.

It's when you get to Jesus, they all start saying no. Well, they just took some liberties in the translation process, much like that has happened in the Bible. You see what I'm getting at. A lot of this is manuscript evidence as well. And so we see differences in manuscripts based on periods of time, you know, like for the ending of the Book of Mark, for example. Why would Constantine say? Well, let me. to a guy go down there in the archives and figure out when Jesus showed up.

He was converted. So Constantine turns to Jesus. He said, go down there where they got them archives. And I want you to check out what year this savior I'm going to follow. What year did he show up? Well, the year he showed up was 20 years ago. So, I mean, Constantine wanted to know. But the information he got was by some monk that went down there and checked into it,

and we're still counting time by Jesus. It's what I'm saying. Well, here's what I'm trying to explain, is there were many manuscripts of Josephus' historical writings. The one I just read was only found in one, and they found it in Russia. It was like they had a lot of Josephus' writings, and this was found amongst that. The other two I'm going to read, they were found in all of them, all over the world, and all these, from the manuscripts being translated. Yeah, yeah, but you could, and you could have, like, we couldn't say that Josephus didn't,

he may not have said that quote that Jay's just read, but we still would use other quotes to prove, you know, the validity of the resurrection of Jesus. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think y'all get my point. So let me read the one that say, here's probably what he said, is what the scholar of the same passage I just read. And you'll notice the subtle differences.

So same quote, scholars got together, kind of like what they do when they're interpreting the Bible and said, based on everything he's ever written on the subject, here's probably what he said. Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, for he was a doer of startling deal. a teacher of such man as received the truth with joy. And he gained a following, both among Jews and many Greeks, in origin. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, and the tribe of Christians so named from him, are not extinct at this day. So basically he took out the parts where he said he was the Christ.

These profound statements, they were like, he wouldn't have said that. But just some guy, 2030, something years later, or whatever, right around 2000 when that happened, for a guy like me, that's enough for me to know he was here. Well, exactly. That's what I was getting to. So this whole thing about Jesus doesn't exist. The atheists are running around. I never heard of him, but I went to college for eight. years. No one ever said Jesus did anything. It's like it didn't exist. But I would, yeah, I would, I would, I don't think

anyone in like a serious academic area would say that Jesus didn't exist. People have said that, like, but that's not the consensus of New Testament scholarship. Even among those who aren't believers in Jesus, they at least say that he existed. I mean, that's. So are you saying some people, they know better than that? Oh, yeah, Phil. Yeah, there's like, there's, there's, there's There's marginal groups. There's marginal groups that have risen up that have tried to contest the validity of Jesus's existence, but that is not ever penetrated like academia in any form or fashion. It's never had any traction at all.

Never. You can't. So what else, Jay? Okay. So these are the two that everyone agrees, the modern scholar, believers are not that are, like, legitimate. They're found in all the manuscripts. on Josephus's various writings of history. All right, so I'm just going to read an excerpt here.

It says, in the antiquities of the Jews, book 20, chapter 9, if you're going to look it up. Josephus refers to the stoning of James, the brother of Jesus, James the just, by order of whatever this guy's name is, who was a Herodian-era high priest. And let me get to the quote. The James referred to in this passage is most likely, well, I don't have the quote here.

I thought I took a picture of the quote. But anyway, so what it says is the translations of Josephus writing into other languages have at times included passages that are not found in the Greek text, which is that first one. They just had one. But in this one, and I read it, I thought I took a picture of it, but I didn't. And it's basically going through what happens when James was martyred. But he referred to him as the brother of Jesus, who people viewed as the Christ is what the basic quote is. This would have been James, the elder in Acts 15. Yeah.

Yeah, James Jesus half-brother. Right, who wrote the book of Jesus. But it gets to the end. It says this passage on James is found in all manuscripts, including the Greek text. So there's that one. So then there's another one about John the Baptist. So that was the one in Jesus that was the other one that was a lot of controversy about, but the one saying James,

who was the brother and who everyone viewed as the Christ, it kind of had some of the similar things who both Jews and Gentiles followed. But then it was more about James, but it was just a reference in there that. And it was done in a way, we're out to your point, Phil. It was like, well, why would you make that up? You see what I mean?

It's just a very small reference. Let me just tell a big lie, and I know it's a lie. On who his brother was. Yeah. So the one on John the Baptist, and the reason I... Just because his brother, to be honest, in the moment, was far more famous. I mean, like, Jesus had died, but James was a pillar of Jerusalem and of the church. And everybody knew him.

He is what would have been absolutely on Josephus's radar. Absolutely. And that, look, to tell you the truth, after doing all this study, I was more excited about what I'm fixing to read to you, even though it wasn't about Jesus, it's about John the Baptist, because it was another thing that's in all the manuscripts,

that all scholars say, okay, this historian from that era, this is what he said about John the Baptist, and I'll read it. We're going to end up having to follow this Jesus if we keep this up, because y'all...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all are saying, he was his baby here, and we're just sitting here saying, no, we? Well, I think my point's going to be God chose us to follow him through faith. You're never, you know, I mean, the greatest evidence is what we're doing

going through the Gospels. Because the more I go through the Gospels, that was really the evidence. Yeah. That trumped all evidence. To me, looking at Jesus' character from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after a while, I just thought,

oh, no, he... It's divine. Yeah, yes. There's a divine happening through faith and reading the... this. But, I mean, going back to, going back to Zach's point is that this is not comparable to other documents in antiquity even of the same period because this has been wrung out more than any other document in human history. Oh, no, and it stood its ground. It's correct. Yeah. That's my point.

And the takeaway on people like Josephus is they don't counter any of the facts. They verify the facts. I just wanted to see the documentation, if any, from some guy at the same time frame that that was going on. Let me read this. Hold on. What was that line again, Larry? I'll say that one more time what you just said. They don't want, they verify the facts. They don't. They they verify, they add validity to the facts that we have in this document. They don't, they're not countering the facts that we read here. Yeah, that's my point. Bear witness to it.

I read nothing last night that I thought, oh, this didn't happen. It was in contract. But it wasn't like his agenda was not showing people that Jesus is the Christ. He just. He's chronicling history. He chronicling history. And you see James. You see John the Baptist.

James had a brother named Jesus. And I do, that's why I made the big point that what everybody uses as a Josephus reference to his view on Christ, that first one I read, I don't think that one is valid. I think Christians through the years manipulated what he said. I believe the scholars. Adding an explicit statement like, and he is the Christ. You don't have to add that. You don't have to do that.

The fact that he was here, and I'm not being closed-minded, I'm like, the scholars looked at it and said, no, he didn't say that. Well, this is like the apocrypha. This is like the infancy gospels in all of these things. And so you have these four ecumenical councils who are deciding what is Scripture and what is not. What has authority voice and what does not. And that whole process, you know, starting in 325 with the Council of Nicaea and going through. And even before then, it was the Muratorian Council or Canon in 180 AD.

I mean, this scripture is closed so fast. Very quickly. It really, really is. What are you going to say is that? Yeah, because I think when you hear like Josephus or you read his writings, it's not, if I were to read the first quote, I would, that's actually more skeptical to me, because why would he be advocating for Jesus being the Christ if he wasn't a Christian? And I think it's what his writings bring to the table along with others is it's extra biblical.

His agenda is not the same agenda as the apostles, but yet there's still these nuggets in his writings that help us see the validity of it. Another one before you get into the one on John the Baptist, that has nothing to do with Christianity at all, but just gives us a glimpse in the Jewish culture is he writes about the testimony of women in one of his writings. And I don't have it in front of me,

but he basically says that the testimony of a woman is completely invalid, and it's like that of a dog. And it could never be admissible in a court or in public opinion. Like, you just completely dismissed the testimony of women, And so when historical scholars go back and look at the evidence of the resurrection, they have these things called embarrassing details. One of them is that women discovered the empty tomb. And the idea is if you look at Josephus's writings and gives us a glimpse in a Jewish culture, there's no way if you're in this time period and you're going to make up a story about Jesus being raised from the dead, you're just going to make it up.

there's no way that anybody in their right mind would say, let's have two women be the ones that discover the empty tune. That's not how you're going to make it up. Yeah. So his writings are used in not just evidence that Jesus was here and some of these things. It's also we can read his writings and get it glimpse into Jewish culture. And then when we go back and look at the gospel accounts, we're like, man, why would they have made that? If they were making it up, why would they have put that in there? That wouldn't make any sense.

Oh, I've used that same illustration. And if God wanted to hire Josephus, he had hired him. Exactly. Or he could have converted him. Let's take another break. So good point, Zach, which, by the way, women were the, so in that context, only women saw the death, barrel, and resurrection. Like were the same women.

Yeah. Saw each. And they were the first ones to do it. That's right. Exactly. I mean, there's a message somewhere in there that God, is for everybody and he's liberated everybody. On purpose.

Everything is on purpose. I mean, we're going back to the same message. Don't start bad mouthed womanhood. Exactly. I mean, he's a champion of that. Now, I think this. Don't hit him in the head with golf balls, easy.

Easy. Easy. You have to go listen to that every time to get that story, guys. The most encouraging excerpt out of Josephus's writing, in my opinion, based on three hours of what I read on the internet, is what I'm fixing to read. Okay. To me,

I thought, now, this is encouraging. This was worth three hours. This was worth it. I got one nugget. Commissioned by your son. There's one nugget. For the new you in search. Here it is.

This is the best thing I came up with it. Josephus wrote that almost all modern scholars agree on. People, whether they believe in Jesus or not, they said, this seems legitimately a historical reference. that we can feel good about. So here it is. This is the actual excerpt, translated into English. Now, some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God.

And that very justly as a punishment of what he did against John that was called the Baptist. Or Herod slew him, who was a good man, who was deemed, the good man. Herod who feared, now there was some more writing in between that, but I'm skipping to this part. Herod, who feared, lest the great influence John had over the people, might put, put it into his power an inclination to raise a rebellion. Accordingly, he was sent a prisoner out of Herod's suspicious temper to somebody named here. I cut it off in my photo, but it was the castle I before mentioned and was there put to death. So he had heard that story that is, you know, in the, is it in all the Gospels, John the Baptist's,

at least two where he was beheaded. Right. Yeah, it's actually in all three. so sorry I was struggling there I took this pitch it was hard for me to get all that on the picture and I cut off a couple of the words there so I couldn't pronounce wherever this castle was but so that you know when I read that

it's pretty well exactly what happened in the gospels for somebody a million miles away you know it wasn't not a million miles away but he was just he had heard about what had happened and so he shared it and was a witness to And he ended up with Harriet's mindset, but the Bible brings that up.

Well, right, he was writing about the wars going on, and Herod and, you know, this guy, John cropped up, and he basically had a little paragraph in there about, you know, some of their views thought. This has everything to do with what is happening here in Luke 9, and the way Luke is doing this story is because he brings up Herod, and it goes back to who people say I am. Well, some say that your John the Baptist come back to life. Well, Herod hears about this and is like, what? Yeah. I thought I eliminated.

That guy cut his head off. I think it is. John is always like, I'm your Huckleberry, you know? John is saying, Herod was afraid and all these rulers would rise and fall. Yeah. Herod, anytime you said anything to start drawing an audience. Yeah. When you start drawing audiences back in that day,

your life was hanging there right out in front of everybody. Yeah. They don't like these crowds and say, what? What are they saying? You know, they basically say, go kill them all. Right. That's one empire after the other, by the way, which all of them not, they're all gone now. So, Harriet figures out that John the Baptist is the Elijah spoken of in that last prophecy in Malachi,

and that Jesus is the fulfillment of that. And that's what Luke is bringing out in this transfiguration, Matthew and Mark and Luke all are in this moment. And that's why there's Moses here and there's Elijah here is all of this messianic prophecy is coming to a head. And that's why they're talking about the Exodus. And I mean, he's coming into when he's, that, that, to tell a steam moment on the cross, when everything is finished, it is finished. Yeah. And all things are complete. Jay, that's what I wanted to hear.

There you go. So I love the way he does research. You said he just flips that lure out there and it goes kerplop. When we were kids, Larry, he would say, he'd say, Jace grabbed that tub of fish down there and Jase would do it. And then he'd say, boy, look how strong he is. Boy, look at the muscle. He's got more muscles for a 14-year-old boy.

Reinforcing, reinforcing messages. Out as a bull. Boy, he's not going to have a problem. You're starting to shake like an old man getting in the tub. I watched Greg Eponet. You know, he went down there wanting to show me how strong he was. He picked up one of them tubs with 100 pounds of buffalo in them and staggered up a muddy bank. But I was saying, I tell you, well, you're talking about a bull.

That's a joke or that. Saturday where he could just hear him. He just, he just would. And now today he's probably had a chiropractor as we've seen. He's been hurting. Yeah, I felt like that, uh, whatever that, that, move this, Phil, has been passed on to all of the next generation. It's the same tool.

So can we say with validity that what the Bible says, when this Bible says, when this Bible was written being put together, which was amazing, you know, how many, 40 people? 40, yeah, plus. 40, 40 plus people put this together. and when you get to historical writers and they give enough information of what you just read,

that's enough for me to say, oh, he was here. Because people even outside the Bible says he was here. Or people who don't believe the validity of this, the conspiracy just got a little bigger, you know. Yeah. It's like you have to challenge the validity of the Bible and people who didn't have an actual.

You know, and almost every archaeologist uses the Bible just as a book of antiquity. To find towns. To find towns and to find places. In fact, Dad, the one thing I found, I didn't commit three hours to it. I committed about 15 minutes. But I did find Josephus linked to the Transfiguration as to where it was because this article I read was talking about the location. I read. I read that.

That's what the preacher would say. And then Josephus, it just said he backed up what. some of the early Christian leaders from, say, 150 forward, thought that this mountain was the place. Right. And so that was the only reference I found to Josephus. I read that, too, but I felt like they were still just looking around at mountains thinking, this works. Right. So the only reason anybody's talking about Josephus is because it bears witness to the Bible.

That's right. That's the takeaway here. I wanted to know what he had to say about what was going on in the time frame, 2000 years. It bears witness to the fact, and all other ancillary extra-biblical writings do the same thing. But my whole point, Phil, is that even it's like the story that we started off about the Revolution, him feeding the 5,000. Well, then we don't go very far, and Al preached on this at some point, but they came, they were wanting that, they were wanting another miracle. And he rebukes, I'm not sure, that's in John's account, I think, in John's six. and so we don't we got to be careful that we're not trying to prove this to people because a lot of

people they'll just say well you know I'll believe in God where's the miracle all he's got to do is is give me a miracle yeah so it's like Peter just like the guy offering a million dollars or whatever it is I don't know what it's up to you now but you know if you can do a miracle you'll give you a million dollars just and he sends out his address just show us the father and that'll be enough for us Well, Jason is referring to the John account, the feeding the 5,000. He had just fed them. Yeah.

And then they come back and they said, well, you know, Moses gave our forefathers manor from heaven. What miraculous shines when you show us, you know, that you're really who you say are. And it's like, duh, I just fed 5,000 yesterday. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They're like in the upper room and just show us the father and that'll be enough. And he's like, how can you say that? You've been with me three years? how can you even begin to say, show me the Father, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.

I got something to say about the Internet and research and all of that. You know, Jesus said to much who is given, much is required, the fact that we live in this time and have access to the Internet, we have got more access to theological libraries, every seminary, all of that. We used to live in the information age. now we live in the misinformation age. We have to be very careful kind of to look at the sources that we're looking at. That's true.

But we have every tool available to us that has never existed in any other period of time. If you want to know the truth, Jesus said, seek, and you'll find. If you knock, you know, it's going to be opened. If I never look for anything, I'm never going to find it. I think that's a key point. And Jay, you'd mention it. earlier because I've done I've though pretty deep into the Christian apologetics and evidences you guys remember back in the day I teach that at whitesbury road when we were back in Louisiana but

there is a there is an evidence of Christ that supersedes and it I think it is a supernatural it transcends all of the all of the extra biblical arguments and it to me it's it's it's encapsulated in Philippians too like when you when you think about like just the mess and just who God is, you know, Christ who being in very nature, God did not consider equality with God, something to be aggressive, made himself nothing, taking on the nature of a servant. The whole, like that whole thing to me, like the greatest evidence is just who God is himself. And I think that's the, when you guys are mentioning that about, they are saying, give us the manna from heaven. You know, we got mana from heaven when we were in the wilderness.

Give us that. John 6th, Jesus is like, yeah, that's what I'm doing. I am the manna from heaven. Like it's me. I came down from heaven. Feed on me. And Larry, you do a great job of pointing to the person of Jesus. But, I mean, you just can't get away from the person of Jesus.

The Jews had the law. They had the scriptures. They had everything. And Jesus said, you study the scriptures diligently. And by them you think you're saved, but you miss me. I think it's all pointing back to the person of Christ who the fullness of God dwells in his body. and dwelt in his body. And to me, that, I don't need, I love the evidences.

I love it. But man, to me, there's something supernatural, spirit-led, spirit-revealed about the nature of God in Jesus that supersedes everything else that we can ever, ever talk about. He is the complete revelation of God. Which is why God, the voice said, listen to him. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to listen is what I've learned. just from studying with people and, you know, arguing with different religions.

And, you know, it's just very difficult because we all, as humans, think we know everything or think we've had it right. So I wanted to use another example of what y'all are saying in the same light. It's even like when he said after he predicted his death and his burial and his resurrection, when he told his disciples, if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily. And you will even see people take that where they'll deny themselves and sacrifice on a daily basis. But they'll do it so that somehow in their mind they're like, look at what I did. Right. Well, but if you have that attitude, you're still elevating yourself.

You're not denying yourself in that. Exactly. You're like, look how much I deny myself. Yeah. But the very fact that you're saying that is now elevating yourself because you denied yourself. The very fact that you have a cross means that you don't live anymore. I've been crucified with Christ. It's not me who lives.

That's where I was going. So my point is the reason it says, listen to him, when he says, if anyone would come after me and if he would take up his cross daily and follow me, and then when he says, for whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me, it's not just that I'm asking you to live this horrible, sacrificial, painful, difficult life because a lot of people do. And then they say, well, look, I must be great.

Because look how much I've given up. But it's for Jesus, which is why he says, listen to him, which is why when we get to the end, when he starts going through the cost, it makes people feel real uncomfortable. Because he takes things that are very important and that are not wrong. You know, the guy, the first guy said,

I'll follow you wherever you go. And Jesus is like, well, I don't have a house. Yeah. So are you sure? Yeah. And because then people, that makes people uncomfortable. They're like, well, what are you saying? That I, that I, something wrong with having a house, you know, then it's like,

the next guy's like, well, let me, you know, I'll follow you, but let me go bury my father. Well, now who in their right mind would think that's a, that's a, that's a, oh, oh, I didn't realize, I'm so sorry. And what Jesus said, hey, let the dead bear their own deal. We ain't got time for that. You're like, wait, what? Yeah. Well, now all of a sudden, and then the last one, when it's like, well, let me go say goodbye to my family.

Well, he's going to say something's wrong with that. He's like, take out of the time we need. Don't put your hand to the plow and look back. I mean, and whoever does that is not fit for the kingdom of heaven, man. I mean, it's such a profound statement. And we know that when, which our whole point is today, once you start really listening to what he's saying, you're like, no, he's got to be the center of everything. And my attitude toward my family and the people that have died and where I live and nothing wrong with any of these things. But there's a filter and there's a

focus when, when God said, listen to him, you're like, when, in everything. This is my message to you. It's an embodied person. Jesus isn't too big on excuses. Yeah, exactly. He's not big on excuses. And you know, somebody gets trapped in something, they want to start blaming everybody except looking at themselves and seeing how they compare it with Jesus. That's the kind of stuff he's talking about right here. That's exactly right. He does not put up with it. Well, that's why I jumped to the end, because if you just take that paragraph on its own, you're kind of missing. It does seem kind of crazy. Yeah. But when you look at it in light of what's just happened, you're like, okay, okay. This is not going to necessarily be easy putting my faith in Jesus. People are like, oh, yeah, I'll follow you.

You know, and I've said this before, is that we ask, a lot of times we ask Jesus to follow us. Yeah. In our life. And he says, no, it's not going to work that way. You want to follow me. You're going to take up your cross. And we're probably going to march up this hill and we're all going to die. You know, and we tend to think that if Christ is going to become our life, our life is going to be somehow different than his.

And he says over and over, in this world, you will have trouble, but take heart. I've overcome the world. If they hated me, they're going to hate you. No servant is above their master. And Jesus just tells us. The idea that somebody's going to be easier is not true. All right, we're out of time. Larry, it's always a pleasure having me on the podcast.

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